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Barkhorn1x
07-27-2004, 16:39
What’s wrong with this picture?

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/rometotalwar/screens.html?page=66

I’ll tell you – a line of Princepes or Hastati advance on a group of well-ordered militia hoplites swords at the ready. So what happened to their pila?? And, if they launched them already, how come the hoplite formation is so well ordered?

In ALL of the vid clips, TV shows and screenshots that I’ve seen (and I think I’ve seen ‘em all), I have never seen a devastating pila volley, not even once.

Just how effective are these Romans going to be with mere swords against an un-molested phalanx?? I really, hope that this issue has been addressed

See the quote below from Caesar’s Gallic Wars to see how this tactic was used.


Quote[/b] ] [1.25]Caesar, having removed out of sight first his own horse, then those of
all, that he might make the danger of a11 equal, and do away with the hope of
flight, after encouraging his men, joined battle. His soldiers hurling their
javelins from the higher ground, easily broke the enemy's phalanx. That being
dispersed, they made a charge on them with drawn swords. It was a great
hinderance to the Gauls in fighting, that, when several of their bucklers had
been by one stroke of the (Roman) javelins pierced through and pinned fast
together, as the point of the iron had bent itself, they could neither pluck it
out, nor, with their left hand entangled, fight with sufficient ease; so that
many, after having long tossed their arm about, chose rather to cast away the
buckler from their hand, and to fight with their person unprotected.

Barkhorn.

Sasaki Kojiro
07-27-2004, 17:36
Hmm well they don't have everything worked out right yet...They know how to do javelin units though, they were devestating even in MI. In any case, you can easily add +3 power or something in the projectilestats folder.

Nelson
07-27-2004, 18:44
I've wondered about the pila for a long time Barkhorn. I hope they get it right. Pila volleys should be hay makers.

shingenmitch2
07-27-2004, 18:49
I second your concern and hope that they get it right.

Unfortunately, they didn't find the time to get either the Mac Pike-phalanx or the Hoplite spear-phalanx to operate correctly (and, heck, they are only 2 of the most primary unit formation in all of ancient warfare) so I do not have my hopes up about the Roman units.

Oleander Ardens
07-27-2004, 19:10
Hm I hope that the Pila volley don`t gets too powerful...

If the pila is anyway near the heavy_spear in MTW it means by-by to almost all heavy infantry. The pila was good, but not all-powerful. It could definatly pierce a shield, but only from a relative close distance, and should have little effect against pikemen... I had once a nice discussion with Kraxis (where is he btw ?) and we found a neat explanation to the high resistance of phalangites against javs and pilas.

Cheers

OA

Colovion
07-27-2004, 22:16
In teh TC episodes and the Decisive Battles: Cannae - I've seen a number of Pilum volleys that killed maybe one or two soldiers.... no more https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasarno.gif

ps - the recieving end were Gauls or some kind of "barbarians"

ah_dut
07-27-2004, 23:15
afaik, pilum volley's at least the first one were only supposed to take out the shield, the second one was for the kill https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

crazyviking03
07-27-2004, 23:18
I would say that maybe it is because the enemy was standing in loose formation, but they were pretty compact in Decisive Battles...
https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Ragss
07-28-2004, 00:31
Maybe they made the pilums negate the shield bonus etc, rather than just kill a lot of people. I think online, a player with an entire army that can throw pilums would be vastly overpowered if the pilums were anything like javs in MTW.

Blodrast
07-28-2004, 00:51
Quote[/b] (Ragss @ July 27 2004,19:31)]Maybe they made the pilums negate the shield bonus etc, rather than just kill a lot of people. I think online, a player with an entire army that can throw pilums would be vastly overpowered if the pilums were anything like javs in MTW.
i don't really think javs are overpowered in mtw, for 2 main reasons:
1. thrown from a frontal position, they don't have that big an effect as when thrown from flank/rear.

2. small range means the unit will have to be very close to the target, and most javelin-wielding units don't do well in melee, so it's again pinning and shooting, etc. Which can get pretty tricky in a battle, and the AI can't do it well properly on its own (with the possible exception of jinetes, sometimes).

sorry 'cause it's OT.

DemonArchangel
07-28-2004, 01:10
But Bloodrast, Roman Legionaries probably have the highest melee attack in the game.