Janissaries

[mercian billman]

Here's a article about Janissary Corps very intresting stuff I'm about 1/2 done and thought some of you would like to see it. It's very long.

Janissaries (http://www.xenophongi.org/milhist/modern/janizar.htm)

[lonewolf371]

It is interesting, nice stuff. Very heavily seems to have relations with the Spartan military system.

[Fragony]

That was an excellent read, thx for sharing. Based on what I read, aren't the sipahi a bit underpowered in M:TW?

[lonewolf371]

I wouldn't know personally but I think the Sipahi in MTW are not based on the Janissary ones described here.

[mercian billman]

I liked the article myself and, couldn't help but wonder what would've happened if the Janissaries didn't lose their discipline. It was really sad to read about the degeneration of the Janissarie Corps. They started a small and elite group of men who's primary concern was warfare and, the welfare of their fellow Janissaries into a large corrupt beauracratic system ~:(

[lonewolf371]

Most likely it would have been similar to the fate of Sparta: all their enemies would have eventually caught on and discovered a way to defeat them.

[Fragony]

I wouldn't know personally but I think the Sipahi in MTW are not based on the Janissary ones described here.

They were mentioned as the feudal-like elite in te article

[Cebei]

Hello people! I m bacK!

This is a really good and correct article. If I may answer some of your questions:

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Very heavily seems to have relations with the Spartan military system

True. But the Janissary system is more directly related to the futuwwa armies of the early medieval Islam. The social status, battle flexibility and most important of all their close affiliation with the Bektashi sect of Islam, shows how the Turks adopted the futuwwa system. The importance of the Bektashi sect is that, it is usually considered as a more diluted version of Islam by the more radical orthodox Islam. For example, Bektashis’ main concern is the expansion of the faith, other than more restrictive practices of Islam like not drinking alcohol or have sex etc.. That is why Bektashi version of Islam was more readily accepted in Ottomans’ newly conquered lands of east Europe. Bektashi dervishes served as morale boosters and they preached to increase the zeal of the warriors.

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I think the Sipahi in MTW are not based on the Janissary ones described here

There are two types of sipahis in the game. Standard Ottoman sipahi and Sipahis of the “Porte” (Porte means the “Bab-i Ali” -> the Sublime Porte, the residence of the Sultans and the court of the Ottoman house.. A symbolic place like the White House or Downing Street).

Ordinary sipahis were used to flank the enemy or threaten archers. They werent used for a head on attack, simply because they were too many to be given heavy (expensive) armor and also for the sake of mobility, armor was against their role in battle. Sipahis of the Porte on the other hand, are the bodyguards of the sultan. They are one of the most powerful heavy horse archer units in the game, and are not very different from the reality.

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I liked the article myself and, couldn't help but wonder what would've happened if the Janissaries didn't lose their discipline. It was really sad to read about the degeneration of the Janissarie Corps. They started a small and elite group of men who's primary concern was warfare and, the welfare of their fellow Janissaries into a large corrupt beauracratic system

This is a really good point. Some contemporary hardcore Turkish chauvinist-nationalists still insist that Ottomans would rule the world had Janissary system continued as it was once was.

However the decay of the Janissary system is actually the RESULT of the overall weakening of the Ottoman state and government traditions, which it used with great efficiency for about 200 years. These traditions were inherited from the Byzantian Empire, and in some respects were the “Islamic Roman state system”.

Janissaries were magnificent in battle. But like many other elite force in history, they were a pain in the bass, during the peace time, by threatening the smooth functioning of the government by, making and unmaking sultans, revolting etc.. when things did not go as they pleased.

When the Ottomans realized that they are starting to get weaker in the face of a rising Europe, they immediately tried to reform their military. They did so by opening military schools, forming artillery, grenadier and engineering schools. Janissaries (usually doing what the Bektashi dervishes told them to do – see my first reply) opposed the reform, claiming that adopting the way of warfare of the barbarian West (that means Europe), the state was actually getting weaker. That was a taboo. No Christian science should be accepted…

Starting with the reform, Janissaries frequently rebelled and deposed Sultans. They had to be destroyed to continue reforms. But on the other hand Janissaries and the Bektashi dervishes were the only checks and balances in the Ottoman administration, to effectively limit the rule of the Sultan, preventing him from turning into a despot or dictator. After Janissaries were destroyed, next Sultans were actually exercised terrible autocracy and dictatorship, which led to final collapse of the state systeö.

Had Janissaries endured, their warfare methods would be really archaic in the battle field and they would be chewed as candybars by the French cannons, Austrian grenadiers or the Prussian cavalry.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Welcome back, Cebei!!! Nice to "hear" from you... :thumbsup:

[Cebei]

Welcome back, Cebei!!! Nice to "hear" from you... :thumbsup:
Thanks Aymar ~:wave:

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Hoşgeldin Cebei, and you too Dom Aymar!

Nice post there. My fingers are aching to do a couple makeups here and there but neither is it really important, nor do I have the urge.

:medievalcheers:
_

[Leet Eriksson]

Welcome back cebei and aymar ~:wave:

good to hear from you finally, both article and cebeis post are interesting to read, though that Nizaria system in egypt, i don't really get it... you would'nt mind explaining a bit please?

I might mistake them with the Nizari of the Hashishin though...

[fenir]

Faisal,
beautiful work, to the point, good coverage, well researched.
But then again i have come to expect nothing else from you. :-)


cebei,
Welcome back, and also nice concise reply with good depth of knowledge.

fenir

[Cebei]

Welcome back cebei and aymar ~:wave:

good to hear from you finally, both article and cebeis post are interesting to read, though that Nizaria system in egypt, i don't really get it... you would'nt mind explaining a bit please?

I might mistake them with the Nizari of the Hashishin though...

:tomato: it took 9 hours of sleep to realize my mistake.. Havent been playing MTW for quite some time, Im confusing things.

Its not Nizaris.. I meant futuwwas; Janissaries both adopted the teachings of the futuwwa code and also their military organizations etc.. Also as far as I know Bektashi dervishes used the same preaching methods on futuwwa soldiers and Janissaries... Doh! :scastle: I'll go back and edit my post.

~:doh: