Valour Question

[Christopher]

Bought the game 7/26/04. Enjoy the forum, very useful. Who thought A P.C. game could be so indepth. Anyway, have some questions on valour.

1) Is there anyway, besides winning battles to gain valour points.

2) Caught the French king with only his escort, and a unit of archers.
However, even though I had numerous more men (300) Everyone
started to rout after just taking a few losses. Had quality troops with
valour points (1-3) General valour 3. Why did this happen? French
king did have high valour number (5-6), or was it his dread number,
which was also high? Maybe its a bug? As I see it, I don't care how
experienced you are, with those kind of odds you are going down.

[Papewaio]

A few obvious and maybe not so obvious sources of valour:

Virtues and vices add to the valour primarily of the general. For instance Pride adds something like +3 valour to the general... while hampering his command by reducing his stars by two. This is a good general to use in small battles as he will carry the day single handly with pride

Every 2 stars of the general add one valour to your troops. For instance a six star general adds +3 valour to all his troops.


Some provinces will add +1 valour to a particular unit built their. For instance Longbowmen built in Wales get +1 valour

Having the maximum (master version) of a building of the right type will add +1 valour. For instance hobilars built in a province with a master horse farm will get +1 valour.

[JAG]

1) Yes, if you get a high star general with the unit not only does he improve their morale but he improves their valour - well that is how he does improve their morale but nevermind ~:p ) 2 stars for 1 valous point, and then it goes up in sets of 2 I believe - a bit rusty on meh old memory.

2) Odd's in this game means next to nothing, what does count is good tactics and smart play, that is nto to say you don't have this already but you may have missed somethign which the game picks up on and deems very important. Like flanks. If you are charged in the rare or flank there is a big morale and combat negative, if you then loose half of your unit there is again a big negative, this is how a unit can quite easily run away even if it still has superior numbers - say 50 peasants vs 5 royal knights. After 1 unit routs it can then trigger a wave of routs as each unit see's other units run away they get shakey themselves, there is a big negative for seeing a routing unit. On top of this different units have different morale factors and royal knights - especially with their king - are very high, so it is no surprise that you may have lost, those guys are tough especially early on. I am sure other people can give you more detailed advice about the actual numbers and factors, but these are the basics.

[ah_dut]

welcome to the org christopher (damn no wave icon) i believe that all ur questions are answered here but one thing, remember to abuse ur bg's they can do some hefty damage ~:) ~:cheers:

[Maeda Toshiie]

Bought the game 7/26/04. Enjoy the forum, very useful. Who thought A P.C. game could be so indepth. Anyway, have some questions on valour.

1) Is there anyway, besides winning battles to gain valour points.

2) Caught the French king with only his escort, and a unit of archers.
However, even though I had numerous more men (300) Everyone
started to rout after just taking a few losses. Had quality troops with
valour points (1-3) General valour 3. Why did this happen? French
king did have high valour number (5-6), or was it his dread number,
which was also high? Maybe its a bug? As I see it, I don't care how
experienced you are, with those kind of odds you are going down.

Dread has NO effect on the battlefield.

Against the French king: Use 2 units archers in loose formation in front of your spears to shoot at the enemy archers first. Do this to destroy the archers (if you have no cav.)

Use Your spears (remember to hold formation and hold position) to pin the enemy french king (never use peasants on the battlefield). Then hit his rear with other units (urban militia). Charge them in and melee until they start losing. Thereafter pull them out and charge again. Repeat until either side breaks.

Do not let your spears get into the forest. They lose their rank bonus inside (though the cav get penalties there as well).

Note: If the enemy has no where to retreat to, they have a last-stand morale bonus(+8). At expert level (+4 morale), The AI is virtually unroutable.

[Christopher]

Thank you all for your replies.

[Ludens]

Virtues and vices add to the valour primarily of the general. For instance Pride adds something like +3 valour to the general... while hampering his command by reducing his stars by two. This is a good general to use in small battles as he will carry the day single handly with pride
Papewaio is quite correct, however the particular vice he chose to illustrate his example is bugged. For some reason: 'pride' has the effect of 'secret pride' and 'secret pride' has the effect of 'pride'.


Every 2 stars of the general add one valour to your troops. For instance a six star general adds +3 valour to all his troops.
I thought it worked like that too, but it is a bit more complex. For every odd star the general gives +1 attack to his troops and for every even star he gives +1 defence. So 1 star gives +1A, 2 star gives +1A +1D, 3 star gives +2A +1D and so fort. In game this is represented as +1 valour (+1A +1D) for every two stars.
But the extra valour a general's command-rating gives does not include the morale bonus 'normal' valour gives. The general unit does provide a command-dependent morale bonus, but this is only effective near the general.

So a 0 valour unit with an 8 star general has the stats of a 4 valour unit, but if the general is on the otherside of the battlefield the unit will still have the same morale as a 0 valour unit.

[Maeda Toshiie]

But the extra valour a general's command-rating gives does not include the morale bonus 'normal' valour gives. The general unit does provide a command-dependent morale bonus, but this is only effective near the general.

So a 0 valour unit with an 8 star general has the stats of a 4 valour unit, but if the general is on the otherside of the battlefield the unit will still have the same morale as a 0 valour unit.

+2 morale per 2 stars of general when within 50m of general's unit.
+1 morale per 1 stars of general when outside of 50m.

+2 morale for unit containing the general.

[The Grand Inquisitor]

+2 morale per 2 stars of general when within 50m of general's unit.
+1 morale per 1 stars of general when outside of 50m.


Isn't this the same thing?

[Procrustes]

I don't remember the details, but don't you get a bonus when your army is led by the king instead of any other general?

Thanks,

[Blodrast]

Isn't this the same thing?

Yeah, just a typo. He meant:
+1 morale per star within 50 m.
+1 morale per 2 stars outside 50m

[Blodrast]

I don't remember the details, but don't you get a bonus when your army is led by the king instead of any other general?

Thanks,

not that I know of. Just that royalty has more hitpoints, that's it. Generals do, too, but royalties get the bonus hp for royalty whether they are generals or not.

[Midnj]

2) Caught the French king with only his escort, and a unit of archers.
However, even though I had numerous more men (300) Everyone
started to rout after just taking a few losses. Had quality troops with
valour points (1-3) General valour 3. Why did this happen? French
king did have high valour number (5-6), or was it his dread number,
which was also high? Maybe its a bug? As I see it, I don't care how
experienced you are, with those kind of odds you are going down.


Here's a list of morale hits. A cav charge by heavy cavalry into low quality infantry (that lacks valor) can rout them instantly (things like peasants, urban militia, etc). That immediately adds a huge morale penalty to all of your units which are in proximity. Throw in your units taking archer fire and the fact that any unit engaged with that French king is likely to be losing badly and you have a chain rout in the works.

The biggest hit will likely come from routing friends, though. When you're in a situation like that, take your toughest unit and have him engage the king initially, then start piling troops on its flank/rear. It would also help to immediately rout his archers.

The list:

Disordered or Loose Formation
units in loose formation or in disorderd ranks suffer -2 moral

Outnumberd By Enemy Forces
2 to 1 Suffer -4 moral
10 to 1 Suffer as large as -12
Also factored is quality and speed of enemy too.

Threats To Flanks
-2 moral penalty if one flank is threatened
-6 moral penalty if 2 flanks or 1 flank and rear is threatened
-4 moral penalty if charged into flank
-6 moral penalty if infantry is charged into flank by calvery
-8 moral penalty if hidden unit is charged into flank

Generals Death
-8 moral penalty
then only -2 moral penaly after a few secounds
(dosen't apply to highly disciplined units)

Routing Friends
up to -12 moral penalty if 2 units are routed
(only applys to units of equal or higher level of others)

Casualties
10% casualty rate suffer -2 moral
50% casualty rate suffer -8 moral
80% and higher casualty rate suffer -12 moral

Taking Enemy Fire
being shot at by missle suffer -2 moral
plus additonal -4 moral if shot at by weapons
that create fear

Skirmishing
missle units being pursued long distances as fast as they are suffer -6 moral
Moral drops by another -6 moral
if skirmishers run out of ammo

Fatigue
Very tired units suffer -3 moral
Exahsted units suffer -6 moral
Completely Exahsted units suffer -8 moral

Losing
up to -8 moral loss depending on how badly your lossing
For infantry losing to calvery another -6 moral is possible

[Lonewarrior]

It may have been all that was mention before and if your soldiers where tired too, that counts towards routing

[Ludens]

not that I know of. Just that royalty has more hitpoints, that's it. Generals do, too, but royalties get the bonus hp for royalty whether they are generals or not.
There was a thread (about jedi-generals) some time back in which all the hitpoint modifiers were discussed, but I can't remember one for royalty. Perhaps you are talking about great warrior and other +HP virtues that appear often on royalty?

[Puzz3D]

Valor has a strong effect on combat. With all else equal, a 3 point advantage in valor translates into a 3.28% chance of killing an enemy man on each stike while the enemy unit only has a 1.10% chance of killing on its strikes. That's a 3x advantage which is like having 3x the number of men, but it's even greater than that because the stronger unit gets battlefield upgrades for the men it kills which have the immediate effect of raising valor. So, a strong unit tends to get even stronger as it fights.

Also, it's possible that a high command star general has vices which lower morale in his troops. Valor and morale coming from the general to his troops are largely seperate effects in the single player campaign. You can hit F1 at the beginning of a battle to see the morale level and other stats of each of your units. If any of your units had negative morale, forget it because they are going to run at the drop of a hat. Morale has to be around 6 or better for units to stick around and fight a long time.

[Daveybaby]

Who thought A P.C. game could be so indepth.
Sigh... i remember when that was the norm rather than the exception

/sobs into beer.



1) Is there anyway, besides winning battles to gain valour points.
As well as what has already been stated, i would just say that its not *winning* battles that gives your units valour (well apart from the fact that it gives your general more stars), its getting kills that does it.

Believe it or not, the game tracks valour individually for each soldier - the valour displayed for the unit is actually the *average* valour of all of the men in the unit. So every kill a soldier gets raises his valour, but if he dies that valour is lost, which is why it is possible for a unit's valour to drop - if some of its high valour soldiers are killed then the average will fall.

This is why you might notice your archers and catapaults tend to gradually increase in valour throughout a game, while your swordsmen (for example) dont quite so much - because youre archers tend not to die quite as often as your swordsmen when in combat.

So, its not winning the battles that gets your men valour, and its not just killing enemy soldiers either, its killing them while not getting your own men killed. Okay, so achieving that kind of implies that youre going to win the battle, but you know what i'm getting at here...

[katank]

V&V's are awesome. pride and killer instinct come to mind immediately as great valor boosters.
add in hp bonuses for royalty and you can see why jedi byz heirs rule the battlefield and can maul pretty much anything they can catch.