Swarming

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

I have this question about swarming. OK, i can use my HA and LC to surround and destroy a unit, IF it is already cut-off from the rest of the group. My problem is how do you face an army (using swarming) which is defensive, it has positioned its archers on high ground and is waiting for you to slug it out? Of course you can't attack head-on with a swarming type army. So how do you lure their units AND avoid getting your HA creamed by their archers?

[Papewaio]

If you have combined arms (even lowly spearmen that can take a pounding from missiles) then you can march them up nearby, let the enemy melee take the bait and once they are engaged you can take out the archers... most HC are better then their equivlent archers (longbows excepted)... but numbers can be telling... also a few hard melee cavalry are good to have.

In any case an army that specialises should have a dash of other units.

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

OK, but that is not really swarming. It is just a baiting the enemy and then hitting his back.

[Papewaio]

It is not advisible to use one tactic fits all approach. Sure it can work but there are more efficient approaches.


When an enemy is camped on a hill the only way to dislodge them is to use superior fire power. You are going to be in an archery duel.

You can of course ignore the archers and just fire on the enemy melee troops... this may trigger them to give chase... probably only if they take more casualties then you... so it becomes a basic war of attrition... the other option is to send a false charge in... maybe even begin a melee and then hit and run (withdraw once combat starts)... it may be enough to draw out and AI opponent.

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

I see. So, does that mean that you can't use swarming effectivelly in MTW?

[Daveybaby]

It means that its a tactically complex game, so no one tactic will work in all situations.

This is NOT your run of the mill RTS.

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

I have been playing MTW for a year now so I know that no tactic will work in every battle. I was just wondering about how you can use swarming. Have been reading some stuff on the subject lately and thought i would give it a try.

[katank]

swarming isn't ideal for attacking entrenched position at all.

in fact, that's what you hope for as an entrenched defender, for the enemy to mount frontal assaults using huge numbers that will only increase your kill ratios.

I suggest using artillery etc. to pound away at the enemy so as to force them to either take the casualties or come after your arty. the latter usually occurs.

[Colovion]

using HA's try to pester the flanks as much as possible, get some units to give chase and then crush them when apart from the main force

when they just don't budge or your HA's start getting under fire from their archers I usually go with the small wedge/large flank maneuver. Sometimes you have to tweak a bit depending on the troops you have/facing but it's basically like this:

Advance with a small wedge with a reasonably strong unit at the front, not something whimpy. THen have that flanked and diagonally spaced backwards from it and advance on the enemy. This will ensure that your units aren't outflanked as quickly. Then have one or two units march around the enemie's flanks. Just having one on the enemie's weakest flank works the best as after slaughtering their weakest troops you can sweep into their rear. This has worked a number of times for me but it has failed obviously when I should've used a different tactic. Basically you're just trying to get them to concentrate on your main force in the center first, so those units should be pretty hardy so they can stand fast and wait; having your general in teh center works well for giving extra Moral.

[Si GeeNa]

I'm sorry if I sound mis-placed but what do you mean by "swarming"?

I agree with Pape's posts that we should take on a more modern approach with the combine arms principle.

If the enemy is in a prepared position, it means that he is ready for an advance straight-up. He has the slowest and heaviest infantry infront, backed by javelineers, crossbows or archers in various enfilading fire. To presume that this advance will succeed will entail massive use of firepower up front. This is the least advantageous method as many points are against the attacker, e.g., lie of the ground, immediacy of defensive support.

Since the defence is prepared for a frontal advance, probe the flanks. That is not to say that the defence is not prepared for it. It means that the defence has to adjust to deal with it. In the moment when the defence adjusts to deal with the flank probes, the oppurtunity arises to take advantage of movement within the defensive plans.

Winning is most often about taking and holding the initiative. Dictate the flow and you'll control the likely outcome. Acts of God otherwise...

~:cool:

[Doug-Thompson]

Digging an opponent off a hillside takes a lot of patience, frankly.

The only way to do this with pure swarming is to get above or at least on the same level. If he's on a hill where you can't do that, you're going to have to melee with him and use your HA as "bait."

[Colovion]

You could just advance up the hill/towards the enemy and then split your forces in two and swarm from the sides, that at least makes them break up their formation or be flanked. Then you can use some reserves to come up the center with just a unit or two and pick at the new flanks....

[katank]

still iffy if they have good entrenched position and distinct height advantage.

best to pick them apart from afar with arty and draw em out or with superior firepower.

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

Interesting advice people. I 'll give it a try, when I get a chance.

@Si GeeNa

Swarming by definition is attacking an enemy from muptiple directions in a syncronised and sustained pulsing attack. Because of the non-linearity of the attack, the encirclement, the elusiveness of your units and in some cases stand-off firepower, you can defeat a much larger enemy than you could using linear tactics. Problem with all this, is how you apply this approach.