View Full Version : Death to the Pope, Rome and the Papal States
Okay I gave this game a bash decided to try the Italians. First thing was to secure my northern provinces. Then advance southwards and secure the entire Italian mainland. The Papcy fell easily as did Naples. Then I sat about elminating the Sicilians and there fleets at see. But low and behold despite a reasonable garrasion in both Rome and the Papel States (at least 300 troops) in each the Pope in Exile starts a rebellion in both provinces with large armies of around 1000 and 500 men. This would not be so bad except for the quality of the troops. They appeared to be much latter generation knights and cavelary. Despite attacking the smaller army with over 1000 men myself I was butchered. The pope then advance north affectively finishing me off. Least I get to burn rome down before I retreated. Anyways is there anyway of supressing the Pope once you have conquered rome and the papal states and they flee and set up a pope in exile. Really frustrating that. Any advice?
The_Emperor
08-16-2004, 16:44
Ok my advice is... Let the Pope have one province.
Be it Rome or the Papal States. Burn all the buildings and let him inherit a wasteland.
You cannot keep the Pope down in this game, he always comes back again and again with bigger and better forces and eats away at you. Its a lot better to practice a policy of "containment" on him and keep him weak.
Sorry but you cannot keep the Pope off the map...
KukriKhan
08-16-2004, 16:45
The Pope was an extremely powerful position in medieval times, and the game reflects this. Since you attacked him, I assume you were excommunicated, meaning not only that he (the pope) wouldn't talk to you, but also that every catholic faction (all of western Europe) would have you on their enemies list.
Keeping the pope in exile requires maintaining a tremendously huge army in Rome, the Papal States, and indeed the Italian "boot" altogether, because he will 're-emerge' very often, with large armies of good troops lent to him from the kings of Europe.
There are ways to make him ineffective, but that requires some relatively heavy modifications to the coding of the game.
Papewaio
08-16-2004, 16:45
Advice... leave the Pope for last... you can capture all bar one of his provinces and do okay.
Otherwise make sure you maintain 200% loyalty in his provinces and surrounding ones.
No. The Pope will stage an uprising with many very high quality troops every 5 to 15 years after you kick him out. There is no way to prevent this, short of messing with the game files.
The best way to nullify the pope is to enter his provinces and burn everything down- you can beseige him in one province, then let him go if you want, so he doesn't return with an army that he can hurt you with.
You could also lock him up in the Papal States- it is a very unprofitable province.
Sociopsychoactive
08-16-2004, 17:09
If you do wipe the pope out, there is an easier way of ensuring he doesn't come ack with mases of high end troops. In all the povinces he has ever owned leave only one unit, none if you don't need to defend it, and then when he emerges there he will have far less troops.
Remember the general rule for rebellions is that thy will rebel with enough troops to defeat the army in that province on autocalculate, for re-emergences this is slightly shakey, the place the actual heir turns up will be massed with troops, but it still holds, the number of troops will be far less if there were fewer troops there to fight against.
The best way of keeping the pope down I have found requires him not to have ever owned any provinces other than rome and the papal states. Attack and kill him, then sit in naples and tuscany, even venice if your worried, with a full stack or three ready for when he does come back (as he always will).
The emergence will be with few troops, but every time he comes back will be with more troops than the last, that you can guarentee.
Containment works better, but make sure you force him into a province, burn th othjer to the ground, completely and utterly, then let him re-take it and force him out of the other one. Don't kill him, but he should have a small enough army that he can;t attack anywhere, and no money coming in so he's permenantly in debt.
Despot of the English
08-16-2004, 17:35
As a Catholic player I often always like to ally myself with the Pope and receive the benefit of 1000 florins per year (not every year but close.) I am happy to leave him be otherwise I won't be able to crusade if I war against him or destroy him. Naturally if you aren't Catholic the best way is to reduce the Pope to the Papal States and leave him there for as long as it takes for you to win the game.
Goofball
08-16-2004, 22:24
I got lucky in the game I am currently playing. The Pope got aggressive and took the two islands west of Italy (can't remember their names). I quickly snatched the entire Italian boot and have the Pope isolated. I love when that happens.
What about isolating him in say the Papal states and keep assasins on hand to off him every time he excomunicates me. Will he dissapear or will they just elect a new pope in the same province. If I ally with him would he every break the alliance and advance on me?
Blodrast
08-17-2004, 01:36
sure, the pope breaks alliances like everybody else.
And sure, the most convenient way to get rid of an excommunication is by killing the pope.
If you just kill him, a new pope will be elected. No new armies appear on the map.
If you wipe his faction out, then he will re-emerge. That's when new armies appear on the map.
Like people suggested, corner him down to one province, but don't wipe him out.
Whenever you get excommunicated, if that bothers you, send out some assassins to kill him, but don't wipe him out, cause he may come back with enough troops to cause you pain (unless that's what you're aiming for, of course).
As for getting allied to him, GAH !
Since diplomacy in MTW is mostly random, you probably won't spend too much time allied to him, nor will you be able to change that...just as with the other factions.
I make a carrot-and-stick game of the Pope. It's an expensive game, but the idea is to push him as far away from Rome as you can.
Empty the province you want to move him to, start a war with him if you haven't already done so. When he takes it (he doesn't seem content with only one), snatch his other provinces, making sure that the Pope himself can always escape (i.e. don't kill him). I've pushed him as far as Provence.
When you're done, lay siege to his one province, then leave, and the war ends.
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