Right flank

[GFX707]

Does anyone know if the weakness of the right flank of roman legionary(sp?) formations will be modelled in the game?

[IrishMike]

Mabey a helpful and friendly CA god will drop in and give us the info we require. Sounds like a good ideal though to counter Rome obvious advantage in millitary might.

[Oaty]

So what was the weakness of the Roman right flank?

[lonewolf371]

Wasn't it just because they had to hold their shield with their left hand? Or the positioning of the cohorts (i.e. the first "super" cohort, can't remember proper name, placed on left?). In both cases I don't think it would have made any major historical difference, most things I've read on Roman battles don't list the right flank as an active weakness in Roman armies. In addition, despite the fact that the position of the "super" or "first" cohort (can't remember proper name) may be on the left, such an overall weakness in the legion would be demonstrated in the game by, oh say, having one unit of praetorians (or does the game actually have "first" cohort legionarries?) positioned on the left in your battle formation.

[GFX707]

I always thought this was a well documented thing. Yes, the above reasons are correct.

Mainly due to the shield being held in the left hand of course. Obviously it applies to more than just the Romans, but I was just wondering if such a thing would be included.

[Kommodus]

If you watch the Time Commanders battle of Silarus River, they point out that the Roman armies at the time placed their best troops on the right flank (i.e. first cohort). The web site www.roman-empire.net has some good information about the typical Roman battle order. If I remember correctly, the cohorts were numbered 1-10, with five in the front and five behind, arranged according to experience and other factors. In the end, the left flank of the army ends up being weaker than the right.

Since players will, of course, be able to deploy their cohorts however they wish, it seems unlikely that there is an effective way to model this in the game (except by setting up the initial formation in a certain way). The strongest part of your army will be the part where your strongest troops are concentrated. You could follow the Roman pattern, or you could change it.

[GFX707]

What about a charge against the right flank of an engaged roman unit? Surely they should model their right flank being weaker than their left!

Left flank = wall of shields
Right flank = nice and soft

Forget all this leftmost/rightmost cohort nonsense. That's not what I am talking about here.

[Oaty]

I think Romans usually put cavalry on their flanks and if this is correct you would have to beat off the cavalry before you flank a mauneuver on their right flank. So it would equal a race of have your men holding off the legionaires long enough to use this to your advantage

[GeWee]

Umm the romans didn't fight like a phalanx. If the right flank was engaged, wouldn't the soldiers in those ranks turn to face the enemy, ie put up their shields to defend etc?

[zelda12]

exactly correct Gewee, the roman lgoins could generally manouver to meet most threats as this was part of their basic training. What some of you are thinking of was the tendency to put the first cohort, uber troops, on the left of the line thus making it the strongets part. This is so the left flank of the Roman line could push back the enemy and flank the remaining units still in combat.

[GFX707]

What about a charge against the right flank of an engaged roman unit? Surely they should model their right flank being weaker than their left!

Left flank = wall of shields
Right flank = nice and soft

Forget all this leftmost/rightmost cohort nonsense. That's not what I am talking about here.


The right flank of an ENGAGED roman unit.


I doubt that they can turn around while they are fighting.

[DthB4Dishonour]

I believe the battle between Pompei and Caesar was a clear demonstration of this where Pompei overloaded his left flank with Cavalry, Skirmishers and Archers to take advantage of this inherent (slight) weakness in the roman form of battle. Caesar being Caesar countered this by using some of his best troops including his beloved 10th legion to counter it and cause Pompei destruction. I think a good thing to include in the game would be for engaged legions would not enjoy there shield bonus if they are fired upon from there right flank.

[andrewt]

Isn't this true about all units using shields and fighting in close formation? I seem to have heard this weakness in the hoplites and phalangites as well. I can't recall who fought (I think the Thebans were the winning side) but in one battle in ancient Greece, a commander used this weakness of the right flank to his advantage. I think he overloaded his right or something.

In the previous Total War games, there's a penalty for being attacked in the back and the flank. Maybe a separate value for being attacked in the right and left flank should be added.

[USMCNJ]

i believe it was the left side that was weak in greek troops.
the greek battles were fought were like:
the army would ingage, and your right (strong) side would try to over power the enemies left (weak) side, and then incircle the enemy.
usually the second this would happened the army would drop their gear and run. resulting in small casulties, but the army would take long to get new gear.

the battle you're thinking of is battle of Leuctra in 371 BC. When the Thebans put their secret band on the left, and stacked their formation from 54 ranks (i think, i know it was a huge number) on the left to 8 ranks on the right. This formed a tringle shape. So they just simple overpowered the spartan strong side and by the time the spartan weak side engaged most of their army was of the field.

sparta tried again a few years later and doubled their ranks to 16. however, 16 was still no match for 54 and they lost again.

(atleast that's what i was taught in history class)

[Lonewarrior]

INteresting, i'm working on a stragedy already and I don't have the game yet.