Peasant production - AI

[warlordmb]

Hi people,
Does anybody know a way to reduce the AI preference for producing Peasants and to make them produce something more useful. I'm getting fed up of facing big AI armies only to find they have too many Peasant units. Peasant units are pretty damned awful in combat and large armies of them are very easy to beat with a small army of only decent type units. Any suggestions will be very welcome.
Much thanks.

~:joker:

[VikingHorde]

Hi people,
Does anybody know a way to reduce the AI preference for producing Peasants and to make them produce something more useful. I'm getting fed up of facing big AI armies only to find they have too many Peasant units. Peasant units are pretty damned awful in combat and large armies of them are very easy to beat with a small army of only decent type units. Any suggestions will be very welcome.
Much thanks.

~:joker:

Well, it's not easy to say. My mod has solved some of the AI problems, but Im still working on it. You can read about AI tweaking here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=33846

[Ludens]

May I recommend MedMod? The 2.04 version (Abbey road) does not change any units, but it improves the AI dramatically. The problem with the AI is that it does not build economic improvements. That's why it tends to be dirt poor. And the AI is programmed to build peasants when it doesn't have any money. WesW has reprogrammed the AI and made several changes to the game with the AI in mind to create a more powerful opposition. This resulted in a AI which builds more economic improvements, trades more, thus has more money and builds more powerful armies.

You can find WesW's MedMods on this site Wes Whitaker's Total Modification Site (http://wes.apolyton.net/).
V2.04 it the version that improves the AI while not changing units. It creates four new campaign next to the existing ones, so you do not need a clean install of MTW. The mod does require VI.

MedMod v3.14 (Total Immersion) is a total modification, it does change units and countries. But I understand WesW is working on MedMod v4, a modification that will be even better. Wes himself described as 'the game MTW ought to have been'. I am interested how that will turn out.

[Sinner]

A quick & simple mod is to copy the Muster Field from the vikings_build_prod.txt file to the crusaders_build_prod13.txt file then edit both the Peasant and Muslim Peasant in crusaders_build_unit11.txt to require the Muster Field instead of the Fort as the troop producer.

This makes it less likely that Peasants will occur simply because the AI won't get them as default by building a Fort. If you want them to be even less common, you can go further & reduce the likelyhood of the Muster Field being built - follow the links given above for details to avoid repeating the info. ~:)

I also amend the startpos files so that all Peasants & Muslim Peasants are replaced by the appropriate Spearmen unit for each faction, ie. Spearmen, Round Shield Spearmen or Negro Spearmen. With rebel regions I pick whatever seems appropriate based on neighbouring factions.

Together these easy changes make Peasants far less common, mainly appearing in rebellions and being occasionaly built by factions that really are on their last legs anyway, so it's fairly acceptable that they build what are desperation units.

EDIT: Another idea that I only just thought of would be to increase the unit cost to 200 while decreasing the support cost multiplier to 1. The increased cost means that the AI will be less likely to build them - the Spearmen units are all cheaper - without the need of a more complex mod, while the drop in support cost multiplier is to compensate to a degree for the increased build cost. These changes could be reasoned that turning peasants into troops is expensive because of the loss for tax revenues from the farms, etc they once worked, but the still low support cost represents that they don't need much in the way of supplies once they are built.

[warlordmb]

Ludens,

Thanks for the help.
I checked Wes's site as per your suggestion. Some good stuff.
I'll try tweaking the AI when I get home tonight. I'm really intersted in fine-tuning the AI to make combat, and thereby the game, much harder - yet retaining as much realism as poss.

Thanks again.

VikingHorde,

I followed your advice as well. Also some good ideas. I'm starting to understand how the scripting relates. Your idea about Unit Cost influence is pretty obvious now you have pointed it out.

Thanks for your help, {and your hard work}.
Cheers.

~:cheers:

[warlordmb]

Sinner,

That's a great idea about changing the prod. costs and the support costs. Simple and effective. {Aren't the simplest ideas always the best??}.
Just one query - where is the unit support cost multiplier? Is it in the CRUSADER_unit.txt file? - and under which header?

Good thing you reminded me to change the Muslim Peasant troops as well - completely forgot about them. They really do need every encouragement to produce good infantry. {It has just occurred to me to add at least one iron deposit in each of the three Muslim faction provinces}.

Thanks for the help.

~:cheers:

[VikingHorde]

Ludens,
VikingHorde,

I followed your advice as well. Also some good ideas. I'm starting to understand how the scripting relates. Your idea about Unit Cost influence is pretty obvious now you have pointed it out.

Thanks for your help, {and your hard work}.
Cheers.

~:cheers:

I followed komninos theory and my mod has become a lot more agressive (and smart). It's a lot of work, but great when it's done. ~:p

[Sinner]

Sinner,

That's a great idea about changing the prod. costs and the support costs. Simple and effective. {Aren't the simplest ideas always the best??}.
Just one query - where is the unit support cost multiplier? Is it in the CRUSADER_unit.txt file? - and under which header?

Good thing you reminded me to change the Muslim Peasant troops as well - completely forgot about them. They really do need every encouragement to produce good infantry. {It has just occurred to me to add at least one iron deposit in each of the three Muslim faction provinces}.

Thanks for the help.

~:cheers:

Thanks warlordmb ~:) An idea is only simple once somebody thought of it.

The support cost has the header of 'Support Cost' & is the 4th field in the crusaders_unit_build11.txt file - it's immediately after the unit cost. For both types of Peasant units the current value is 3.

Instead of giving the muslim factions an Iron region - not all christian factions have one either - I've modded my game so that the lower levels of Metalsmith don't require Iron, only the Master Metalsmith, using the same mod for the Armourer. I explain the method in greater detail in the Newcomer saying Hi and asking for Help! (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=34967) thread, but basically it involves removing the Iron dependancy from Metalsmiths, copying the Blacksmith from the Viking campaign & making that Iron dependant, then making both Master Armourer and Metalsmith dependant on the Blacksmith. It means every region can provide attack and armour bonuses, but there is still a bonus for having Iron.

Just had another thought: I'm going to alter my Armourer/Metalsmith mod, changing from Blacksmith to a new building type of Iron Mine, making the two Guild level workshops dependant on the basic mine and the Master workshops dependant on the mine complex. I might add a slight economic boost as well, perhaps the same amount as the salt mine, to represent the non-military benefits of plentiful iron supplies.

[warlordmb]

Hi Sinner,

I read your link as you suggested and loved it. For a start its more realistic - more historically accurate. Blacksmiths were a common feature in Medieval infrastruture. All warlike nations were capable of weapon production that was not always dependent on internal iron production. Your idea is not only logical but more in keeping with the ethos of the game.

I like your idea about the economic adjustments with the iron mine. Let me know how that goes will you. ~:lightbulb:

I'll have a lash at editing the CRUSADER.txt files tonight and I'll let you know how I get on {You'll hear me scream for help if I mess it up!!}.

Thanks very much for your help. ~:)

Just had a thought.

Does armour and weapon bonuses affect combat in desert climate?
I'll throw this one open to everybody. I'm interested in how this might affect Muslim factions, primarily. However, this would also effect other factions such as the Catholics/Crusaders.

:knight:

[Sinner]

Hi warlordmb,

I tried modding my mod - hope that makes sense! ~:) - last night, dropping the Blacksmith in favour of the Iron Mine without any problems. I copied and edited the Silver Mine and Silver Mine Complex review panel BIFs to give me Iron Mine and Iron Mine Complex images, finding the otherwise unused Iron Merchant BIF and using that to get the little iron ingot to replace the pile of silver ore in the upper right-hand corner of the review panel graphic, so my Iron Mines appear different to my Silver Mines. ~:) With appropriate descriptions added as well, I was ready to go.

I restarted my mod campaign - it tends to go wierd if you add & remove buildings once a campaign has started - and it's working well so far. After 20 years, many AI regions have the lower level Armourers and/or Metalsmiths, although I've only seen one AI built Iron Mine so far. I'm going to tweak the build preferences a little more, including the build combinations that help guide the AI to deal with dependancies, to see if I can encourage the AI a little more.

Personally I much prefer the Iron Mine idea to the Blacksmith, it sits well with the other resources also needing mines to exploit. The economic boost is minor, but again it just feels right to me.

If you have any problems, let me know and I'll help if I can. Don't forget to back up your files before editing and that you must restart the game after every change to make sure that you are using your modded files. If you don't feel comfortable using Notepad to edit the files, I'd suggest either the Gnome Editor or the Dragon Editor.

As for deserts and the armour/weapon bonuses: both bonuses do apply, but units with an armour of 6 or more - including armour bonuses but excluding shield bonuses - tire very quickly in the heat.

For this reason, with regions that I use to produce certain, typically Valour bonused, troops that form the core of my armies - like Mercia for Billmen - I tend to limit the level of Armourer that I build in there, ie. Armourer's Workshop in Mercia, so that they produce units with a default armour value of 5. Most of these units are then routed through another region with a Master Armourer for re-training, but I reserve some for my specialist 'Desert Rats', an army or 2 of armour 5 or less Billmen, Highland Clansmen, Longbowmen and Pikemen, plus Steppe Heavy Cavalry and/or Turcopoles, and Mounted Crossbowmen and/or Spanish Jinetes, usually led by high Command Feudal Knights left over from the Early period.