Super Ysams ...

[Cheetah]

I just wonder what is your opinion about the pumped up Ysams (H6,W1,A1; or higher). IMO they unbalance the game in the same way as super-ashis. They are very good vs cavs and they can beat shock troops (H3 monks or H4 nods) with ease. True, they are slower than super-ashis, thus they are not very suited for offensive tactics; but they have a higher morale which compensates for low spead. IMO they are the ultimate defending units, better than nagis (nagis are slower, tire faster, have a much sensitive morale). I have seen these super Ysams making some tremendous final stands, killing some 200+ enemy solders (though these were H8,W2,A2 guys!!!).

Finally, it is not a complaint, so ppl who like these guys please dont take offence. I am just curious ... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[LordTed]

Pumped up yari sams actally cost while ashigaru don't.

[tootee]

I don't feel the YS unbalances the game. At the same cost, their effective combat point is higher than ND and WM, but their honor is lower, as well as speed. IMO these more than offset their advantage. And I always feel they suffer more morale penalty when under gunfire (or die faster from gun compared to ND or WM).

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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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[Vanya]

Its not the units that unbalance the game. Its the ludicrous koku amounts that promote high honor units to be proliferated.

Play 10,000 koku or less and you shall not see such unbalances as often. Even around 10,000, some unbalances still exist. The optimum koku range for any game, IMHO, is 4000-8000. Outside that range, you start experiencing balancing problems.

So... if you see a clown hosting a 50K game... be ready for some MASSIVE inbalances!

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif

GAH!

[Mithrandir]

Gah!
I like 600 koku games...I'm just about the only one who does...

lost terribly once though...

my set-up :
3 h2 w0 A0 YA (a 100 koku per unit)
and a unit of SA H2,W0,A0 (forgot to downgrade 'em).

...the enemy showed up with a Kensai and a unit of musketeers...

My archers shot some musks down and I send a unit of YA to finish it up, they routed, the kensai charged, I send in a unit of YA, they engaged, the second one attacked it's flank ,and the 3rd one returned and attacked it's back, a lot of slaughtering, I sent my archers to do a little katana-waving, and all my YA routed or were killed and I still have traumas from that godlike kensai http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif.

I did all the tactical things...engage,flank,attack in the rear, flank again... and he wouldn't die!
HE JUST WOULDN'T DIE!!!

*gets strapped back into his straitjacket*

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Just aded another post :D
Mithrandir Poster of usefull information and entertaining posts (http://www.montypython.net/cgi-bin/dl2/full.cgi?spamsong.wav)

-Patcher of the Board.
-Reuniter of patrons.
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[kamizaki_nurizeko]

forgive my retardedness but whuts a ysam?

im so think no da! ^_^;

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there are two kind of killers...one is the justified murder......the other is the justice murder....which one are you?

[kamizaki_nurizeko]

thick^^^^^ -_-*shakes head in shame*

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there are two kind of killers...one is the justified murder......the other is the justice murder....which one are you?

[ElmarkOFear]

Ysam stands for Yari Samurai. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[kamizaki_nurizeko]

sankyu ( gets it sankyu..thankyou, sound the same ne?...nm-_-, hehe)

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there are two kind of killers...one is the justified murder......the other is the justice murder....which one are you?

[Cheetah]

Quote Originally posted by LordTed:
Pumped up yari sams actally cost while ashigaru don't.[/QUOTE]

Yup, but they worth the cost. At least it seems that most of the players thinks so, since I see many of these guys on the battlefield. But there is no doubt super-ashi is the best unit for your koku.

[TenkiKiller]

Quote Originally posted by kamizaki_nurizeko:
sankyu ( gets it sankyu..thankyou, sound the same ne?...nm-_-, hehe)yes i'm sad http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[/QUOTE]

and corny joke of the year goes to....

[Cheetah]

Quote Originally posted by tootee:
I don't feel the YS unbalances the game. At the same cost, their effective combat point is higher than ND and WM, but their honor is lower, as well as speed. IMO these more than offset their advantage. [/QUOTE]

hm, yes, that is why these guys are not suited to lead the attack http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif but I maintain my opinion that they are first rate defensive units.

Quote Originally posted by tootee:
And I always feel they suffer more morale penalty when under gunfire (or die faster from gun compared to ND or WM).
[/QUOTE]

I almost forgot that battle ... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif yes, they run fast provided that you can flank them with guns.

[MizuKokami]

i must say that yari sams(esp. pumped), are very good units. however, the balance is not upset by them due to their cost in pumping them, and because they don't do large amounts of damage to most things (except horse). consider also(concerning cost)if you could afford to beef up your yari sams, your opponent can still afford to beef up his nods and monks. an honor 3 monk should beat honor 5 or 6 ys's head to head, if the monks are not being fired at, and the sams don't have high ground.(though the battle would be close) also consider the fact that they don't do huge amounts of damage, and don't have a charge bonus, they aren't very effective at routing enemies. in the end, an army of ys's alone (or mostly ys), won't do as well as a well mixed army. and further, consider the morale of your entire army, when a yari sam routs, it effects the morale of your entire army, since they are mostly a defencive unit. if a yari ash routs, only ashi are really effected.


p.s. i love my wall of spears, and allways concern myself with their training more then any other unit. samurai spearmen are the backbone of any good army that has no super ashi


[This message has been edited by MizuKokami (edited 07-23-2002).]

[LittleGrizzly]

i now u werent complaining but i have wondered bout this before. i use h7 sams sometimes with occasionly using weapon and armour upgrades.

if we start to complain bout super sams then we'll have an even worse inbalance as bar yari cav nag cav and heavy cav will rule the battlefield