Retraining?

[CherryDanish]

I've been reading posts in this forum about retraining units, initially, I thought you'd only get the +armour/weapon bonuses which didn't interest me too much, but on another thread, one poster said you could pick up +valour/morale bonuses as well. Now I'm interested. How do I retrain units (MTW/VI patched, unmoded)? My situation is I'm playing the English and I took Sweden early through bribes and built it to produce the best CKs in high that I could. I built a cathederal, full armour and weapon upgrades, bonus valour, everything. When my knights come out they only get the armour and weapons, but not the valour or morale. Can I retrain new CKs and how do I do it?

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

[Nobody You'd Know]

I believe retraining is only in Rome: Total War

[ThijsP]

Retraining is possible. In the unit production menu drag the icon of the unit you want to retrain from the lower bar to the unit building que.

If you own I believe toulouse and have a master horsebreeder you can get 2 valor CK. In the province you were you want to retrain you must have the building requirements of that unit in order to retrain.

I hope this makes some sense ~:dizzy:

[TomPaine]

I'm surprised that your CKs aren't getting the morale bonus from the Cathedral. It might not be showing up on the unit parchment, when you right click during the campaign map -- but have you checked your Order-of-Battle screen (F1 key) during a battle? I think the morale bonus should be reflected there.

Otherwise, Thijsp is right -- you need to be in Toulouse, with a Master Horse Breeder, to get the +2 valor bonus. But you should be getting a plus one valor, even in Sweden, if you've got the master horse breeder, unless it's a requirement for building basic CKs, which I don't think it is.

And can I ask why you weren't interested in the armor and weapon upgrades? I've found those to be hugely significant on the battlefield. ~:)

[CherryDanish]

First off, thanks again for the help guys.

Tom, in answer to your questions:
1) I have already maxxed the armour weapon upgrades for that province (sweden) I build a unit they get those upgrades. I don't need to rebuild them because they already have them.

2) I built a unit of CK in sweden and another in Ille de France (haven't built any morale boosting buildings there), put both units on a distant edge of my placement circle for a test fight (defending against the AI, reloading games ... keeping them far away from my general). When pressing the F1 both units have the same morale (sweden has a cathederal, IDF has nada). BTW, I started building IDF before I read here that they don't get the dismounted valour bonus on CKs unless you mod the game to build CFKs. I should retest as some of my CKs in sweden were built before I completed my cathederal and I might have mixxed em up. That said, despite having the highest level horsebreeder building, I get no valour bonus in sweden on my CKs.

This site has been very usefull and informative.

[Ludens]

The CK is one of those multi-requirement building units, so I am not sure if a master horsebreeder is needed for the valour upgrade. It might be the baronial estates that give the upgrade.

[sunsmountain]

It's quite simple. Having these buildings increases the morale of the troops that are produced and can be checked by pressing F1 during battles. Be sure to make one with and without the building if you don't believe it:

chapter house +0
Church +2
Monastery +2
Reliquary +4
Cathedral +6

(islam: mosque +2, ribat+4, gr mosque +6)

These are non-cumulative and the best bonus replaces the others.
They can be changed in the building description text file. Copy-paste it into Excel and you'll see. The text files can be found in the Medieval - Total War directory.


Valour. Slightly more complicated. If your unit needs the Royal Court building upgrades (you know, the baronial stuff), then you DONT get a valour upgrade If a unit requires multiple buildings, ALL of those buildings are required to have the property {upgrade valour(1)} in the building description file (a text file). The royal court building (and its upgrades) doesn't.

So Feudal/Chiv Knights and the Foot Knights do not get valour bonuses, but Feudal Sergeants DO if you have a master spearmaker.

Spanish Lancers need master spear, master horse and master armourer in the first place, and they DONT get a valour bonus when produced (because their training requirements are exactly met).
They are an exception, because they DO get a valour bonus if you retrain them. Apparently the game then checks the master buildings and adds better weapons, that they didn't get in the first place (because requirements were exactly met).
The downside to this is that it takes them a year longer to produce. 3 years total. This is also true for all other units that require Master buildings exclusively.

You can change the requirements of units in the unit description text file.

[katank]

I'm quite sure that chapterhouse and ribat each add 1 and the the church or mosque only adds 1.

the grand mosque or cathedral gives 3.

[CherryDanish]

Ahhh ... Thanks Sun, very helpfull and it makes sense as I when I reviewed my longbowman and billmen I did indead get additional valour for my master buildings in those provinces apart from the province valour bonuses . I think the cathedral was good for 3 morale.

I retrained several hobilar units and even a title holding general. My advice is don't retrain govs if you like them. I have no idea where the title went too :(. I cannot retrain heirs or forces that you can't build after you enter the high period (nuts, was hoping to upgrade my Huscarles (I build 3 stacks of them before high without knowing I wouldn't be able to build them after high just because they were awesome - phew, lucky break). Tonight I will try to retrain some strategic agents. This is a great feature.

[katank]

I don't think you can retrain agents.

out of date units even retrained is often still not that battle worthy.

this is why it's best to build only RKs or other BG units when heros appears as they get incarnated as those and hence get upgraded through the eras.

[CherryDanish]

No, I hadn't thought about it clearly. Since when you click on a strategic agent, but nothing shows in the lower bar, you can't retrain. Oh well, loads of ways to level up my assassins and spys ... Hellooooo Mr. Sicilian King ...

[Quietus]

The tactic I used when I played Medieval was to recall all high valor troups. Merge them. And when they get to full strength, I retrain them with new weapon upgrades. When I get done with the campaign, I always end up with stacks of valor 3, 4, 5, and 6 troops guarding my borders (commanded by heirs or retired [overpowered] generals). Or course superpowered Units such as the Varangian guards, Janissaries, and even special Crusade knights etc. I use only as decoration/ceremonial units. Usually I put 1 unit with the king/sultan/emperor residing at constantinople or the spanish border with the high valor troops. Sometimes I use high valor units to occupy a rebellious province (but they don't get to fight; I consider them retired :knight:

[CherryDanish]

I don't retire units, even vanilla archers when I have fully developed longbowmen available, BUT I do pick a province and drop all beaten/damaged units in it (I only field units at full strength with very few exceptions) and combine units as they are damaged mixxing higher valour units only with other higher valour units. Sometimes a unit will sit out for extended periods, but I can't stand not using a unit. Another thing I do is garrison castles with old units if it's clear I'm not going to use them again. That said, many of my old units are proving particullarly effective in extended desert warfare now that I left the eggys till the end game. Hobilars, mounted sergants, steppe cavalry and clansmen without the armour upgrades are remarkably effective in desert warfare.

This retraining feature is great though and gives many older units a second life if you're done in the desert.

[Sociopsychoactive]

Retraining is very usefull.

I tend to do the same as cherrydanish and move all partial units back to my most developed province for merging, then any partial's left over get retrained with the best armour, moral and weapons available. Any units that gwet specific place bonusses get sent there to retrain, as all the new recruits will be valour one.

LEftovers like crusade units, bribed ones and loyalist rebellion troops get merged to full and sent out, or hang around the capitol looking mean.

[Quietus]

Basically, the choice is to use Green troops or veteran troops. I just don't like Green troops as garrison. Green troops attacks. Veteran are promoted. I add the reinforcement and attack again, with the Veterans to garrison the last province. In a couple of turns, they become loyal anyways, so the veteran garrisons just move along with the green troops. If the province is rebellious, it might take a while.

These troops are cheap too. They are usually the low troops because I don't use Chivalric-men-at-arm or Feudal Knights. The only green troops I keep are crusader knights and Order foot soldiers. I don't use them in battle. ~:p. If I'm using a christian army. It is usually, 6-7 Feudal Sergeants/Spearmen, 3-4 archers, 1 Steppe Cavalry, 1 horse archer/Jinette or 1 Royal Knight general, and a combination of Urban Militia, Woodsmen, Militia Sergeants, or Feudal Men-at-arms as the 4 shock troops. ~:p