Something to try...

[Al Khalifah]

Now I'm well aware what I'm about to suggest means that it is nigh on impossible to actually "win" the game unless you're very quick but try this.

Play the game with -ian on and start in early as the Almohads. The rules are, every 30 years, you switch to the next faction on along the number bar (1,2,3,4,5 etc). I know this might sound quite strange or tedious but you really can learn a lot about the games various factions and strengths, plus you get put into a lot of very challenging scenarios which mean it is very difficult to achieve any form of dominance on the map due to the short time period and if you do, its going to mean there's a healthy challenge waiting for you when you next switch.

In my attempt, I took most of Spain with the Almohads and strengthened Africa. Then went on a rampage against the Turks and Egyptians as the Byzantines, nearly annihilating both, but then I had to actually play as the Egyptians.

This was one of the most difficult campaign experiances I've ever had, trapped between the Almohad and Byzantine massive power blocks with only Egypt and Cyrencia to control. Every turn was basically a fight for survival and winning battles was not good enough. They had to be won well. Aggression was pretty much impossible until the Spanish were able to give the Almohads a series of decisive wins that put them into civil war and allowed me to move westwards with a few battles and some bribes. The turn after the civil war started, Sinai finally cracked but the Byzantines never pushed home the advantage to take Egypt. They just stopped or went home. Maybe the Turks remerged or something.

Anyway, that may not sound impressive, but if you were there you'd agree just staying alive was a huge challenge. And you get LOTS of those playing this way simply because its sort of like playing against a players country.

[Tamur]

Wow, very tough indeed... I can imagine how that would be. I have the Almohads squished between myself and the Egyptians in my current campaign -- they've only got two provinces left along the North African coast. Re-emerging from that would be almost impossible.

Will have to give this sort of game a go, sounds like a great challenge.

[Marquis de Said]

This sounds like a cool idea. If you're in a position of power, do you attack your smaller neighbours just like you would in a normal game, or do you cool it down nearer to the 30-year time limit, just in case you have to play those smaller factions? I could give this type of game a go, or I could try it as a play-by-e-mail format with anyone who's interested.

Marquis

[Al Khalifah]

If you're in a position of power, do you attack your smaller neighbours just like you would in a normal game, or do you cool it down nearer to the 30-year time limit, just in case you have to play those smaller factions?
Normally I try to show as much mercy as I usually would to a faction because I know that if I manage to destroy it completely then I won't actually have to play it (because I can't). However, if I can trap an enemy in a single province that doesn't provide many resources then I will do this simply because this is what I would do in a normal game. The whole purpose of the game is to give yourself challenges and if you don't play normally, you won't face them.

The worst transitions are always the ones where two factions that are next to each other in the playlist are next to each other in the map and at war, because then you're straight in at the deep-end and the AI has no time to either die out or recover before you take over.


I could give this type of game a go, or I could try it as a play-by-e-mail format with anyone who's interested.
My inspiration for this game type came from the PBM style of game of one person taking over from the next. I just turned it into a single player variant but yes, this game type would be perfect for PBM and if you're interested I'll gladly join up.

[Marquis de Said]

@Al Khalifah

Yeah, I see what you mean about doing what you normally do in a game. I mean it wouldn't be much of a challenge if you let, for example, the French keep Flanders even though they had no way of holding onto it, just because you knew you would have to switch to it.

I'd love to start a PBM game, but I've never played PBM games before. Have you played a lot of PBMs? It seems pretty straight-forward though from what I've read in the PBM forum. I could start one pretty soon actually, but I'd have to think about the format. Maybe playing the thirty years each, and the next player takes over as the next faction. We could also randomly choose the next faction, by drawing a number between 1-20, and the person taking the next turn wouldn't know which one it would be until the player before them has finished his turn.Then each player could recount their reign as that certain faction. What do you think?

Marquis

[katank]

I think someone suggested a GA race in people picking factions to play until the next GA mark and then turning the game over to the next person who uses the -ian switch to switch to a different faction to play until the next mark with the restriction that you can't pick a faction the other person picked before and at 1453 to count the total GA points for all the factions each player played to determine a victor.

this could work too.

[afrit]

@katank,
that someone would be me. See https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=34616

Soon after I posted the boards went down and nothing happened.

@Khalifah and Marquis De Sade,
playing PBMs is very simple. The PBM subggroup is pretty quiet now because of the RTW demo, but I would be happy to join up with you for one PBM with faction switching, either cooperative or competitive (see my thread above).

Afrit

[katank]

sorry afrit, my bad memory.

good thing that now credit is properly attributed.

[Al Khalifah]

I think someone suggested a GA race in people picking factions to play until the next GA mark and then turning the game over to the next person who uses the -ian switch to switch to a different faction to play until the next mark with the restriction that you can't pick a faction the other person picked before and at 1453 to count the total GA points for all the factions each player played to determine a victor.
I always thought that playing GA and using the faction switch caused a game error. I could be wrong but it always causes difficulties when I try this.


Maybe playing the thirty years each, and the next player takes over as the next faction. We could also randomly choose the next faction, by drawing a number between 1-20, and the person taking the next turn wouldn't know which one it would be until the player before them has finished his turn.Then each player could recount their reign as that certain faction. What do you think?
That's exactly how I think we should do it too. Drawing random factions should also make it more interesting. One problem that could occur with this game type is if the player faction gets eliminated - a very real possiblity considering the nature of the game. In this case, you'd have to load the save (save every turn if in danger) and then change faction on the turn before you get wiped, then play another faction for the remainder of your years.
I think.

[Marquis de Said]

I always thought that playing GA and using the faction switch caused a game error. I could be wrong but it always causes difficulties when I try this.

I tried it to test out the -ian switch in one of my GA games (I only play GA) and it didn't cause any problems. I even tried playing the rebels for a while.



That's exactly how I think we should do it too. Drawing random factions should also make it more interesting. One problem that could occur with this game type is if the player faction gets eliminated - a very real possiblity considering the nature of the game. In this case, you'd have to load the save (save every turn if in danger) and then change faction on the turn before you get wiped, then play another faction for the remainder of your years.
I think.

The only problem with this format that I just thought of is how to measure each player's success. Obviously, the challenge is part of the game, but it's not going to be a very interesting turn for someone to play a dying faction whose economy is hopelessly in the red. How did you deal with the lack of funds for some factions? When I tried -ian I noticed that the Danes for example had 100 000 in debt.

Marquis

[katank]

it may be necessary to try and pull out of the debt by provoking and putting down rebellions and slashing and burning through out neighboring territories.

if debt is more than a threshold like 50k maybe, then another faction may be selected as the faction in question can be counted as a hopeless case.

[Marquis de Said]

Hey, that sounds like good reasoning to me, katank.
Are you up for that kind of game?

Maybe I should start a thread on the PBM forum and start the game there. Just one more question: I've never tried uploading files onto the .org. Is there a guide to doing this anywhere?

Marquis

[Tricky Lady]

Just one more question: I've never tried uploading files onto the .org. Is there a guide to doing this anywhere?

Just connect to this linky (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Uploaders/pbmupload.php), click the "browse" button, and select the file you wish to upload.
Wait a few secs, and voilà... there it is!
~:cool:

The file will then be available on this web page (http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/).

Good luck!

[katank]

sorry. I've had some really rotten luck with getting my savegames to work in PBEM setting.

the files tend to go foobar.

it sounds interesting though, too bad.

[Marquis de Said]

Thanks, Tricky Lady. Seems easy enough.

Marquis

[Al Khalifah]

The only problem with this format that I just thought of is how to measure each player's success. Obviously, the challenge is part of the game, but it's not going to be a very interesting turn for someone to play a dying faction whose economy is hopelessly in the red. How did you deal with the lack of funds for some factions? When I tried -ian I noticed that the Danes for example had 100 000 in debt.

A players success would have to be judged on its merits rather than qualitatively. Therefore, a record of certain factors should be taken at the start of the players control and again at the end (maybe with a half way indication too). This should include:

* the number of provinces the faction owns (preferably with a list of these)
* the factions annual income
* the factions annual expenditure
* the quality of the factions best general(s)
* the factions it is at war with
* anything else of note: e.g the faction has a citadel/fortress, large trade empire, no good generals, a well developed province, a crusade on the go

By assessing these two in comparison, we can judge how well the player did. The player should also give a detailed account of any significant events during their reign such as territories conquered/lost, wars won/lost, factions eradicated, trade routes established, profitable raids, crusades/jihads in the usual PBEM style of play.

With regards to the money shortage problem, there should probably be a limit on how much debt is reasonable to expect a player to continue with. Say for a faction with 1 province, no trade and a small army this should be quite low where as if the faction has potential to make money it should be much higher (if at all). If you're faction is ridiculously in trouble you could try to get them destroyed and then just follow the rules we devised earlier for a destroyed player faction. Or start a civil war.

I'll start a thread in the PBM room for anyone whos interested in joining our "revolutionary new gameplay experience."

[Marquis de Said]

~:cheers: Khalifah, sounds very good indeed!

We could actually have the other participants in the game judge each player's performance in an Olympic style. Points are given for technical performance (economy, number of provinces, quality of generals etc.) and "artistic" performance (for example judges could award extra points at their discretion if a player captures a crusade province, repels a massive attack by an arch-rival, or returns a faction to its historic borders, etc.)

I'll join the thread in the PBM room, and we'll take it on from there.

Marquis