Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

[Eastside Character]

That's a political map. I have a historical atlas so generally about sources I don't have to worry about. Still, you have to specify certain things for me. How many regions you want to be there (max?), where do you want to focus gameplay (more provinces go where you want more struggle and action) etc.

And just to make it clear here, my offer is not an offer of P&M team but of myself.

Regards
EC

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Thanks for the help Eastside. I think we want about the same number of provinces in MTW or RTW, I do not think we want to add a ton. Except I think Ireland needs to be at least 2 if not 3 provinces and England needs more provinces.

This is a link to SR's idea for regions, I think it looks pretty good, we may change who owns provinces but I believe the provinces will remain mostly the same.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=38801&page=1&pp=30

[Wah_fish]

Yeh I agree about England and Ireland, even If these are my home countries.

The region file looks great. Make sure the cities are where they should be and the ports.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Tonight I am going to attempt to prune some of the threads that are not needed, such as threads asking when we will be realeasing.
Saranalos I have added you to the team roster and attempted to update the roster, everybody else who would like to be added and has been contributing please post here, I cannot be sure who wants to be on the team and do not have time to check if everybody who has been helping is on the list.. I have removed myself from the Historical Battles position for now because I have a lot of work to do on gathering all of the work and research we have done, cleaning up the subforum and organizing what needs to be done.
I can now edit all posts in this forum, but I will for the most part only be editing the progress report and such. If anybody thinks we are farther along than the report currently shows please tell me.
Godspetmonkey I believe we are farther along than 0% in the area of unit models, how far along do you think we are?
How many models have you completed?
I will start my pruning now, but I will not prune anything if it means we lose such valuable threads as the loading screens thread.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Looks like the thread slid off the list and we are not allowed two pages.....
If I cannot locate it somehow I will send a pm to Tosa asking what we can do about it. Anybody know who made the load screens? If they still had them we may be able to get them back or Silver may have them. I will pm Silver and see if he has them.
I think we are only allowed one page of threads (16 threads). I will look into this and see if we can retrieve the files from some sort of trash bin or something.

Edit: Had to add more.

I do not need to delete threads, once they drop off the bottom they are gone and as you can see the soft delete that I have access to is not particularly effective.....

[GodsPetMonkey]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=40688

And they were made by FEMTO, who is an obviously talented 2D artist, but hasn't been seen for ages.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I had it showing threads of only a certain age! Goddammit. I feel really really really dumb. Thanks. I will go humble myself before my keyboard now.

Edit: I will pm him and see if he can/wants to help us out in other areas.

[two_Roses]

I'd like to hepl on skinning but i can't get those god damn DS plugins to work :hide: :hide:

Get yaself a cheapo copy of photoshop elements 2, get the DS plugin and wack it in the plugins folder. When opening a DS file, click no to use existing minmaps. And when compiling, click generate minmaps, this way it will create long distance view of your skin.

Failing that, lemme do it, I'm itching to get started.

One comment about your European units, alot of them are too frequently/widely used, I mean you have several units of German gothic armour with different weapons, one that shocked me was Gothic Knights with halberts! I studied all of my referance books and asked some friends, none of them see the reason why they should carry halberts. Anyhoo, after me researching for 4 hours I decided to write a reply in the units section - only to find out my message didnt post and all of it was in vain.....well, I was just slightly bubbling inside on that one. Because I can see that this mod looks really kick ass, but I just beleive that alot of your units rely too heavily on Medieval total war, which was never a historically correct game to start with.

Tom.

[Saranalos]

Saranalos I have added you to the team roster

Oh thankyou so much I have waited so long for this moment*breaks down and cries* ~:mecry: ~:mecry: :balloon2: ~D ~D ~D ~D ~D ~D :balloon2:

Edit: and I know you are viewing this thread right now Ignoramus so there hah!

Unfortunately no new moddelers are offering to join this mod yet.~:(

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Well Two Roses the beauty (sp?) of this mod and its team is that we are always willing to be contradicted, proven wrong and corrected. If you see anything that is not historically accurate call us on it and we will take a closer look at it.

[Yggdrasill]

Units are still work in progress so any suggestions are useful. In fact I don't think we shall have heavily (plate) armored foot man-at-arms at all, except for the British, to simulate that knights were very reluctant to dismount (only in sieges did they do that). It would also make the game very unbalanced, since given their stats, such units would be uberkillers.
The dismount option in MTW was great I really wish we still had that in RTW. But, alas...

[GodsPetMonkey]

Get yaself a cheapo copy of photoshop elements 2, get the DS plugin and wack it in the plugins folder. When opening a DS file, click no to use existing minmaps. And when compiling, click generate minmaps, this way it will create long distance view of your skin.

Failing that, lemme do it, I'm itching to get started.

One comment about your European units, alot of them are too frequently/widely used, I mean you have several units of German gothic armour with different weapons, one that shocked me was Gothic Knights with halberts! I studied all of my referance books and asked some friends, none of them see the reason why they should carry halberts. Anyhoo, after me researching for 4 hours I decided to write a reply in the units section - only to find out my message didnt post and all of it was in vain.....well, I was just slightly bubbling inside on that one. Because I can see that this mod looks really kick ass, but I just beleive that alot of your units rely too heavily on Medieval total war, which was never a historically correct game to start with.

Tom.

Some historical licence needs to be taken, nothing extreme, but ranks of nobility (or atleast soldiers rich enough to own top tech armours) all armed the same would have been a very rare sight in anycase.

Basically, the weapon isnt of major importance apart from an asthetic point of view (not to distract from that point of view, otherwise I wouldn't be needed ~;) ). But I just follow orders, its easier that way, and if gothic plated foot troops with polearms were much rarer then those with say, bastard swords, then it makes sense the 'primary' uber heavy foot inf. be armed similarly.
Oh, and the polearm animation in RTW is alot better then that in MTW (the way the poor troops wave those things about, they are lucky to return with any limbs attached!).

I diffenately agree that MTW is not the best basis.... even more so as it only shares about 50 years with CTW!

[two_Roses]

Hi

Thanks for the quick reply. I see your requirment for variations in units, and I agree, have different version of Gothic Knights, some with pole axes and some with swords etc etc. But I think some of your units were overstated and rommantised by Medieval Total War, and thus your impression of the units is slightly tainted. Having said that everything Ive seen so far from your screen shots looks great. Ive re-posted my comments in the units section and regardless of whether or not they are taken on board, I'm sure theres going to be a great mod coming out of the works. :charge:

Tom.

[Saranalos]

Uesugi I made the battle so that the comp said it was fine and would work perfectly I then try to load the battle and it crashes. I even re-installed RTW and it still dosent work I will try again tommorow because I have to do some stuff to-night.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

OK, there is no real rush. How good is the battle editor?

[Ignoramus]

I didn't know units in Medieval could dismount? How do you do that?

[Saranalos]

The battle editor is okay its not too hard to use but the placing of the armies and getting it say it would work took a little while and then it crashed. ~:confused:

[Uesugi Kenshin]

You right click on them and then choose the dismount option, I think only certain units can and maybe only for sieges or something like that? Am I right here or can you do it whenever?

[Ignoramus]

Ok, I'll try it out.

[Ignoramus]

Why don't we create a small demo campaign on the Turk's invasion of Malta in 1565? I have just read a very detail boom about it. It would demonstrate this mod's awesomeness with massed canon fire. We have nearly all the Turkish unit models we need. We can use all sorts of European units for the Knights of St. John, as they had members from all over western Europe. It also compensate the fact that the Knight's of St. John's exclusion from the game. The Campaign would have 100 turns, each turn equalling one day. The factions would be: Knight's of St. John, Turks, and the Viceroyalty of Sicily. It would help attract more modders to the team. I'm sure Eastside would be happy to make a small campaign map of Sicily and Malta. I could give him all the details. Also it would allow us to test the Mod for ourselves. What's your opinion?

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I am all for that. Does anybody here want to do an interface for the mod? It would be nice if that could be done in time, but understandable if we could not get that done. We would need godspetmonkey to do canons and some more Europeans. We would also need the campmap for the battle.
If everyone wants to do this I am all for it, it would be nice to see if more people want to help afterwards.

[Ignoramus]

Eastside can do the Campaign Map, we will need European Arquebusiers, and some more infantry. Canon models also, however, if we run out of time, we could only have one for the demo. It would be super!

Just a question: Does the Mod need the patch? Also, how would the demo work if done?

[Saranalos]

Yes the mod will need the patch and most people will have the patch anyway.

And the damn battles still arent working.

[GodsPetMonkey]

Eastside can do the Campaign Map, we will need European Arquebusiers, and some more infantry. Canon models also, however, if we run out of time, we could only have one for the demo. It would be super!

Just a question: Does the Mod need the patch? Also, how would the demo work if done?

I'm not sure if a campaign map is a good idea for the first version (theres alot more to worry about, for a start, buildings and the like). Perhaps a series (3 or 4) 'historic battles' would be a better idea.
As well as custom battles of course.

A small scale campaign maybe better once we have all the other bases covered... the units and their art aren't a quater of the work that needs to be done.

[Ignoramus]

Alright, here are the major battles/sieges

St. Elmo-Fort Siege
Senglea-City Siege
Birgu-City Siege
The battle of St Paul's Bay.

If the buildings in the cities are too difficult to do, just make Senglea and Birgu Forts.
Note: Make the Forts have stone walls. I IMPLORE YOU!

The last battle has Silician troops allied to the Knights

Edit: PLEASE see if you make arillery be able to be postioned on the walls!

[Ignoramus]

Uesugi, want any more generals?

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Yes, I believe we need a lot more generals names. I think the series of historical battles would be a lot easier to make and would take less time. I think doing new buildings for it may be a bit out there though, we would have to know exactly what buildings would be included in the game. I suggest just doing the fort battles.

[Ignoramus]

Alright, but make the forts have stone wall and battlements if at all possible, as wooden palisade would have been stormed by the turks in less than an hour. Maybe GodsPetMonkey could e-mail me the available unit models, and I could work out each of the armies since I have this book.

[Saranalos]

Did anyone notice the sudden influx of help offers when Godspetmonkey released those Gunpowder models?

Anyway Ignoramus it wont be possible to have artillery positioned on the walls I think, but it might be possible to change the towers so they fire cannonballs instead of arrows or ballista bolts.

[GodsPetMonkey]

Did anyone notice the sudden influx of help offers when Godspetmonkey released those Gunpowder models?

Anyway Ignoramus it wont be possible to have artillery positioned on the walls I think, but it might be possible to change the towers so they fire cannonballs instead of arrows or ballista bolts.

I think its more that people are realising we are not a flash in the pan mod (and for those that know where flash in the pan comes from - no pun intended)

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Godspetmonkey that pun almost made me soil myself! Great one. I am being sarcastic, my way of saying I know.... Ignore this.

I think we should be able to change the projectile fired from the towers though. I do not see anyway that the artillery would be able to sit on the walls, I bet the walls thing is hardcoded, but if you find out otherwise it would be cool to do.

[GodsPetMonkey]

Godspetmonkey that pun almost made me soil myself! Great one. I am being sarcastic, my way of saying I know.... Ignore this.

I think we should be able to change the projectile fired from the towers though. I do not see anyway that the artillery would be able to sit on the walls, I bet the walls thing is hardcoded, but if you find out otherwise it would be cool to do.

I ignore just about everything else you say anyway.... ~;)

As for cannons on walls, sadly, it would seem so, it's just not going to happen.
So cannon towers it will have to be!

[Uesugi Kenshin]

WOO I am free from my mental restraints! Everyone don't you think we should let Godspetmonkey loose? Doesn't his work suck? ~;)

Just kidding, all your work rules.... Just a little jab for a jab. :bow:

[Saranalos]

Hey this (http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/academy/course/view.php?id=5) has just been opened by Amirsan, it gives courses in modding so it could be useful if anyone wants to learn how to mod certain things.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Cool. I am going to get a login and check it out.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Zharakov you have been added to the team list due to your work on unit lists and interest in helping us make Russia as accurate as possible.

[Zharakov]

Ahh spasibo moa tovarishch ~D

[Ignoramus]

Hey GodsPetMonkey, could you pm me with the number of battles we'll do for the demo, other stuff like if it is possible for forst to have stone walls etc. Then I'll pm you back with details about the historical side.

[Saranalos]

At the moment Ignoramus, its still impossible to edit the graphics of buildings (I think) So we'd have to have the original walls in the game. I could possibly make the battlefields but I'll have to try to get them working first, although I might just have an idea how to work them.

[Ignoramus]

I am pming GodsPetMonkey as I type. We could use the original stone walls for the demo. Do you want me to pm you about the battlefields?

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Duke John has cracked it. I am talking to him about him letting us in on how he did it. Check it out over at SJ.

He has a guide set up here https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=45216.

[Ignoramus]

Excellent!

[GodsPetMonkey]

He's not the only one pushing RTW to the limit....

Can you have forts in Historic battles?
Why yes, you can, and with stone walls too!

http://www.users.on.net/~roehr/RTW/models/StoneFort/Action1.jpg
http://www.users.on.net/~roehr/RTW/models/StoneFort/Action2.jpg
http://www.users.on.net/~roehr/RTW/models/StoneFort/Action3.jpg

Sometimes, I amaze myself ~D

[Saranalos]

Very nice Godspetmonkey, but if I remember rightly malta was very barren and not that green... And we'll need to change the walls texture and style a bit too, I think.

[GodsPetMonkey]

Very nice Godspetmonkey, but if I remember rightly malta was very barren and not that green... And we'll need to change the walls texture and style a bit too, I think.

Well, its not perfect, but its what Ignoramous was asking for.

[Ignoramus]

Well, its not perfect, but its what Ignoramous was asking for.

Excellent! If you can chage the wall texture it'd be great. However, if you can't, that'll have to do. Also, can you make the forts of Birgu and Sengela have one side surrounded by impassable water?

[Saranalos]

Excellent! If you can chage the wall texture it'd be great. However, if you can't, that'll have to do. Also, can you make the forts of Birgu and Sengela have one side surrounded by impassable water?

No I'm afraid it is impossible to have water in a siege map.~:(

And yeah it's not perfect but its good enough for a demo although we do want it to look good.

[Ignoramus]

Oh well! I think this should be number of men on each side:

The Assault on St. Elmo: Turks: 2 armies: 1st one = 1500 men. 2nd = 750 men. Knights: 1 army = 800 men.

The Assault on Birgu: Turks: 2 armies: 1st one = 1000 men. 2nd = 650 men. Knights: 1 army = 900 men.

The Assault on Sengela: Turks: 2 armies: 1st one = 900 men. 2nd = 500 men. Knights: 1 army = 850 men.

The Battle of St. Paul's Bay: Turks: 1 army = 1200 men. Knights: 1 army = 600 men. Spanish: 1 army = 800 men.

Note: These are all approxamites. They don't need to be exact, just near there. The Turks decrease in strength through the battles because they took enormous losses.

Edit: Opps! I forgot to add that the Spanish are the Knights allies in the last battle!

[Saranalos]

Well what types of unit are in the battle? Cannon? loads of stuff to list and make before we could release it.

[Ignoramus]

I am very honoured to have the title Demo Organizer betstowed upon me! ~:cheers:

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Godspetmonkey that looks great!
Sounds like the demo is coming along, Saranalos have you been able to get the battles working?

[Saranalos]

I think I may have just fugured it out and I will try to edit it today. ~:)

[GodsPetMonkey]

I think I may have just fugured it out and I will try to edit it today. ~:)

If you need any help there.... just tell me ~:)

But I find the messages generated when you save are pretty useful for working out what you need to do.

[Ignoramus]

No I'm afraid it is impossible to have water in a siege map.~:(

And yeah it's not perfect but its good enough for a demo although we do want it to look good.

When I assaulted Memphis, there was a long strip of water going quite near the walls on one side.

[Saranalos]

When I assaulted Memphis, there was a long strip of water going quite near the walls on one side.

Really? I heard that it was impossible to have water in a siege map. I will check it out the easy way, making a custom battle in memphis...




If you need any help there.... just tell me

But I find the messages generated when you save are pretty useful for working out what you need to do.

I figured it out, I had a map from an extra historical battle pack still there and for some reason it wouldnt let my other maps load... Unfortunately I deleted one of my own maps too, so I had to start anew, but it worked and I even made the battle happen on malta...

And since it is possible to edit buildings now, I dont think we should release a demo until we get the walls reskinned they would remind me too much of RTW and it wouldnt look too good. It seems impossible to change the height of them at the moment though.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Too bad we can't change the wall height, but they would not be very tall for a fort. We can't change the wall height in sieges either can we? Can we make 2-3 layers?

[Ignoramus]

You mean having 2 or 3 rings of wall? That would be great! Although would need to give the cannon more ammo.

[Saranalos]

I dont know I havent really tested the editor yet because I only got the maps working today...

[GodsPetMonkey]

You mean having 2 or 3 rings of wall? That would be great! Although would need to give the cannon more ammo.

More then one independant ring of wall seems unlikely, it always crashes, and with an error message (about the wall not being connected properly).

[SwordsMaster]

You should be able to change the height of walls. I mean, if "epic" walls are 3 times bigger than the "stone" ones, then I cant see how is that impossible.

[eadingas]

Walls can only form one closed polygon with four gates facing in four directions.
You can try having multiple lines of embankments though, by editing city underlay in 3D, or you can also try adding a structure that looks like a wall, but it won't behave like wall (it can't be manned, scaled, although it could be destroyed by siege engine fire... ) - this however will require finding a way to add new buildings to the game, we still don't have that.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

CA really should have included the ability to make ring walls easily. Oh well. Hopefully we will find some way around it, or just make a wall that cannot be manned or scaled.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Here is that research Saranalos, I just remeembered that I could paste it into a post. It is just rough research, none of the troop numbers are small enough for the game, they are only there for the ratio.


Constantinople

1. If possible make Turkish raised palisade surround Constantinople.
2. A mediocre Greek force (5000) 2000 Venetians and Genoese
3. Some how display wharves if possible
4. Turks numbered 80000, many more than all troops in Constantinople
5. Byzantines sallied forth 1 time.
6. make unique cannon if possible/not too time consuming
7. The defenders were small in numbers but all very well equipped
8. Still the Janissary=s were better
9. Walls were three deep 12 meters high, with tall towers

http://www8.informatik.uni erlangen.de/html/wwp/engl/entr/battles.html



Angora 1402
1 Large Turkish and Mongol armies, Light cavalry heavy cavalry and Jannissaries
2 One unit of Tatar horsemen switch sides on Turkish left flank
3 Jannissaries in center line
4 Turks have Onagers, Mongols have elephants and naptha throwers

Shrewsbury 1403
2 English armies, 1 royal with king, 1 rebel with Percy rebel Harry Hotspur
Many longbowmen
River crossing
Royals were better at melee




Agincourt
French in 2 lines bombards and crossbowmen in between too many at front, many havily armoured foot soldiers, knights on flank and rear
men at arms flanked by wedges of archers protected by stakes,
Sea of mud...
French attacked first, english camp unprotected, 2 part battle?
French knights attacked camp
Field that narrows at the english end

Furnovo
40 scouts were killed first by Greek light infantry
Valley battle
French sent forth Horse archers, axe and other heavy german infantry, heavy horsemen, foot archer, fine siege angines and light infantry, few if any mercs
First line was all horse archers and the german infantry
2nd line horsemen and infantry
siege engines in front
Venetians protected by palisade on hill,
http://www.deremilitari.org/resources/sources/fornovo.htm

Tannenburg (sp?) 1410
Huge field, forest edging at least the Polish side
Poles v HRE
Lithuanians fought first, 1 unit v 1 unit, fled afterwards
Tuetonic knights were with HRE in large numbers
Many knights were involved in the battle
many mounted and foot knights
HRE had cannon

Vienna
Tatars and Turks v Poles germans and Austrians
Turks had more men, worse general
Turks had too little heavy artillery
Polish Hussars rammed home the decisive charge of the battle, all the way to the Sultan=s HQ
Turks made some breaches but the people of Vienna made barricaedes
Poles were outside of walls others were inside
Malta (possibly)

Granada

[Ignoramus]

Also, for the Malta Demo.

The Assault on St. Elmo.
Raised palisade all around if possible. then the stone walls. The fort was sort of in the shape of a pentagon, so if you make the fort like that then great! If not, well that's just too bad.

[Ignoramus]

I have posted a topic about the Demo in RTW Heavengames. GodsPetMonkey, could you post any screenshots that relate to the demo?
Also, I think we could add another battle: The Siege of Mdina.

[Saranalos]

40 scouts were killed first by Greek light infantry

Thamks for the info Uesugi but the above under the heading Agincourt looks a bit strange....

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Somehow that snuck in there, lemme see if I can figure out where it came from.

I have fixed it, thanks for pointing that out, somehow I deleted the enter key thing, you know what I mean? new paragraph.

[Saranalos]

Ok yeah thanks. And I think you should update the team list these two mark2004dundee(3d graphics)
Bacchon(3d graphics)

haven't done anything to help as far as I can see, so they should be taken off the team list, and since naryanese seems to have done the latest Mounted Sergants texture he/she should be added.

And by the way, Happy Easter everyone, enjoy stuffing your face with chocolate....(not that you shouldnt do this everyday...) ~D

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I will, I was waiting to see if they replied to my pm and then just forgot about them...
I will add Naryanese I did not know he did the latest ones, they look great!

[Saranalos]

Why don't you e-mail FEMTO? He obviously hasn't come on here in a while and it dose'nt look like he's going to.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Saranalos try to. I can't, he does not have his e-mail listed. I will pm Tosa to see if he will/can give me FEMTO's e-mail, but I would not expect anything.

[Ignoramus]

Can either Saranalos or GodsPetMonkey post the faction banners in The Citadel TW thread? And the Knights of St. John Banner in the Malta Demo thread. Thanks.

[Saranalos]

Well Ignoramus, I've posted the Knights of St. John banner in the Malta demo thread, but why not do it yourself?

It's quite easy. If you don't know then use the
tags to post a pic just put the link between those tags. And to get the link just right-click on the page and click on View Source.

Then press ctrl + f and type in the search bar that comes up something that should be relevant to the pic you want to find, for example I put john when I wanted to find Knights Of St. John.

And I'm not quite sure what you wanted me to do when you said post the banners in this thread. If you mean at the beginning in SR's post then only Uesugi can do that. But If you meant anywhere or in the RTWH thread I'll post them there.

[Ignoramus]

Sorry, I wasn't very specific. Thanks, I'll try that sometime.

[Narayanese]

Look what I saw when I was playing the Macedon Turks!
http://img34.exs.cx/img34/6206/enbienetenmalmeneparfortune2dx.jpg

A song lyric like this one has the right length to just fill up the waiting time for a battle (a few slashes have to be inserted though). I've found 32 ballads by Francois Villon, but for diversity, what other 15th/16th century songwriters do you know of?

[Uesugi Kenshin]

My only thought is should we make it in english? I personally have no clue what is being said in that and think it would be better to acquire a translated version.

[Narayanese]

OK.

Here is a translation of Ballade des Seigneurs du temps jadis (Ballad of lords of the past):
Who else? Where’s Calixte the Third, / the last descended of that name, / Pope for four years? And who has heard / lately of Aragon’s king Alphonse? The same / of Bourbon’s gracious Duke? What’s understood / of Brittany’s Duke Arthur? What the fate / of Charles the Seventh, known as Good? / And where is Charlemagne the Great? // And what of Scots king, James the Second, / the one half of whose face from brow / right down to chin, so it is reckoned, / was amethyst-red from birth? What now / of Cyprus’ famous king and lord? / Alas! Spain’s king whose name and date / I can’t recall - there’s the reward?! / And where is Charlemagne the Great? // Of such matters I speak no more. / The world’s abuses take us in. / No-one is proof against Death’s door / nor finds effective medicine. / However - I’ll make this the last! - / what was Bohemia’s Lancelot’s fate - / his life, just like his grandad’s passed: / And where is Charlemagne the Great? // Clacquin, brave Breton knight is - where? / Count Dauphin of the Auvergne’s in what state? / And Alencon, both brave and fair? / And where is Charlemagne the Great?

I don't think it's possible to make RTW have newlines in quotes, that's why I have it in a single line.

Here is one by duke Charles of Orléans, from 1450, untranslated:
Agains the coming of May / That is ful of lustyness, / Let us leve al hevynesse, / As fer as we can or may. // Now is the time of mirth and play; / Winter with his idelness / Is discomfit, as I guess, / And redy to flee away. // Agains the coming of May / That is ful of lustyness, / Let us leve al hevynesse, / As fer as we can or may. // Wherfore, ladies, I you pray / That ye take in you gladness / And do all your business / To be mery night and day. // Agains the coming of May / That is ful of lustyness, / Let us leve al hevynesse, / As fer as we can or may.

Do you think songs like those would be good instead of quotes? Getting 77 could be hard though, as I know too few period authors.

[Narayanese]

When I think about it Shakepeare is late 16th century, he has done lots and lots of sonettes, enough to fill up the list if I need. Villon just isn't as good translated as in french, perhaps try to have mostly originally english songs.
I can't translate anything myself, my french isn't so good. I'll still be working on flags, and probably interface.

[Saranalos]

Well, I think we should include some short quotes as well, having them all that long might get a bit boring after a while...

[Narayanese]

Well, I think we should include some short quotes as well, having them all that long might get a bit boring after a while...
Sounds like a good idea, but don't count on me to find them, I'm pretty uninterested in ordinary quotes.
Do you have any quotes in mind, or could you find some?

[Saranalos]

Sounds like a good idea, but don't count on me to find them, I'm pretty uninterested in ordinary quotes.
Do you have any quotes in mind, or could you find some?

Already got a whole list of them, I made it a while ago, when someone said they were going to do a quote list, unfortunately that person dissapeared, but I still have the list. I can easily put them in-game, along with the credits, if you want.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I like the songs, but I think we should use shorter quotes. Maybe some Shakespeare if it is short enough. Anyone know of an y good period quotes?

[Yggdrasill]

Well why don't we mix a bit of quotes and a bit of songs & other quotes from literature. I have my heart set on 'We few we lucky few, we band of brothers' which is from, IIRC, Henry V, just before the battle. Fits the time period as well. And kind of describes us, the Citadel team, a bit don't you think ~:cheers:

If anybody has access to the original text (in English) of this play he or she can check it and find the appropriate act/scene number to go along with the quote.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I think a mix would be quite good. The band of brothers quote is a great one to include, it has been used so many times since then, it fits very well.

[Saranalos]

Yeah that quote is a really good one. Also my name is up twice on the team list... Might want to fix that, there aren't two Saranalos' ~;)

[Uesugi Kenshin]

All right I will, I wonder when I messed that up... We need more quotes...

[Saranalos]

No, I have a huge list of quotes, I just sent the ones I have saved to Narayanese because he asked for them. I think I might have sent you a copy as well, but I'm not sure... I can evem get more quotes if they are not enough, and I'm sure we can get some from plays, poems and more.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Could you e-mail them to me? That would be great. I believe we need seventy, if we need some more I could look through my military anthology that starts at the beginning of time poretty much and find our period in it. There might be a few quotes, besides it would be fun to re-read.

[Narayanese]

He did ~150 quotes, which is just many enough to fill up the file (I think the game has 145 or so quotes), but lots of them are cerventes and erasmus. I have 10-20 songs too. More quotes would be good for diversity.

[Saranalos]

Well, if you want more quotes, then look at the websites listed at the bottom of the file. :book:


He did ~150 quotes

I never knew I got that much...

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Celtic Winter is looking for some research or other non-technical work to do. I am trying to find something for him, if anybody has any suggestions they are welcome.

[Saranalos]

Maybe the landmarks for historical battles? I don't really know otherwise.

[Narayanese]

Celtic Winter is looking for some research or other non-technical work to do. I am trying to find something for him, if anybody has any suggestions they are welcome.
He could find/do
* starting positions for the members of the royal families
* unit descriptions, preferably including in what way they fought so that it is easier for the player to choose authentic formation and tactics.
* faction descriptions, imho they should be short.

[Yggdrasill]

I would like to do unit descriptions since I did a lot of reaserch for the units, seems like the best way of doing it, I have the most info on units available. Instead, we need historical events reaserch. You know, stuff like the Gutenberg press, Luther's 95 thesis, Act of Supremacy, various artworks (Mona Lisa, Sixtine chapel), Savoranola and the Bonfire of Vanity and other historical events, things that pop up at the begining of a turn.

[Ignoramus]

I can do that!

[Uesugi Kenshin]

New question: Should this mod require the expansion?

I am inclined to say yes. The expansion is adding new features, such as religion and hopefully time periods and more factions and units and the mod will not be as good without the expansion. While requiring the expansion may seem like a bad idea as it will lower the amount of people who will use it the mod will be an overall better gaming experience with the added features.


Celtic Winter I think you should start on the landmarks, faction descriptions and historical events. If you would like you and Ignoramus can divide the events into time periods, geographical areas or factions.

[Ignoramus]

Yes, that seems like a good idea. Maybe Celtic Winter and I can divide the work between us. I'll pm him soon.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Godspetmonkey this is about the content you sent to the people on your mailing list.

The projectile from the guns seems to float too far up and it can be dropped onto city walls like a mortar, is there any way to change this? If so where is the file, I will play around with it if you want.

The serpentine seems to drop the round too low into the ground, I am not sure if this is realistic or not, but the gun seems far too inaccurate. Is there a way to fix that? If so tell me where the file is and I will tinker with that as well.

The rest of it looks and plays great!

[Saranalos]

New question: Should this mod require the expansion?

I am inclined to say yes. The expansion is adding new features, such as religion and hopefully time periods and more factions and units and the mod will not be as good without the expansion. While requiring the expansion may seem like a bad idea as it will lower the amount of people who will use it the mod will be an overall better gaming experience with the added features


I don't think it will lower the amount of people of use the mod, in fact it would be higher than if we didn't use the expansion. All people who like RTW would buy the expansion, and people who like RTW would be more likely to use the CTW mod.

Anyway, I'll be around less since my time on the comp has been reduced. And I even might be going back to school after summer, so I wouldn't be around as much. ~:(

The stats for the models are only temporary, I could run through the descr_unit file, and fix the stats to be more realistic if anyone wants.

And cannon sounds... We could use the MTW sounds, or I could try and record some.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I noticed a little bug today, I believe the akinji tend to have a streak of color running off of them into the ground. The sort of blurred funky looking streak.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I remembered something else I wanted to do today. I decided I would post a little list of what value equals what type of attack or defence for what type of unit. I know this will help me when I start giving the units from the pre-everything release and I figured it might help someone else. This is a work in progress, but here we go.

Archers Attack:
3=Average
4-6=rare, slightly above average
7-9=high
10+=extremely rare, very high (forester warbands are the only ones I saw in my cursory examination.)

Infantry Attack:
1-3=Horrible
3-6=Very bad, trouble fighting archers...
7-9=Bad to average depending on defence. (legionnaries are the exception, armor makes their attack good enough.)
10-12=average to slightly high
13-16=high to very high
17-20=excellent
21+=Insane

[chris timbo]

Are there to be scenarios involved in this version. If so, what will they focus on. I have many opinions (as does everyone I gather) as to what would be an ideal historial scenario setting.

How will this game work with the chronology? If chrinology is not important, then you will not need as much research.

[Saranalos]

Are there to be scenarios involved in this version. If so, what will they focus on. I have many opinions (as does everyone I gather) as to what would be an ideal historial scenario setting.

Scenarios? I don't really know what you mean by that... If you mean historical battles, then they will be as accurate as possible for the battle which they represent.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

As Saranalos said the historical battles will be as close to reality as possible, but with conflicting battle reports, histroical writings lost to time and the limitations of the game they will not be perfect.

Our chronology will be somewhat loose, nations will exist for the most part as they did in 1402 and go from there, if a group was defeated shortly there after we do not care so much, we just look for the best factions possible. But the historical events, such as the Reformation and Renaissance will be either triggered to their exact start dates or if possible given a small range centered on their start dates to make the game a bit different every time.

[Celtic_Winter]

For music, if you want I can take good care of it. I have a HUGE music collection(specially medieval/renaissance folk songs,etc) and I have some good ideas of songs that could be used.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Sounds good, we have every now and then had the topic of music come up and I think Saranalos and someone else may have had ideas about it as well, maybe it was Ignoramus or Yggdrasill, I don't remember it was a looong time ago.

[birger]

I AM TRIUMPHANT!!!

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~atpc/graphic/map-europe-1402.gif

Just found this site, really Interesting scenario. Looking forward to play it. :bow:

That map doesn't look that accurate ... this map is a bit better and more detailed. :)

http://www.euratlas.com/big/1400big.jpg

Oh, while I'm at it, why not use coat of arms for the latin/orthodox countries instead of that roman shield, perhaps something like this? :)

http://geocities.com/jarl_birger/REQUESTS/symbol_128_coa.gif

[Saranalos]

Since I am doing the historical battles, I started making the battle of Agincourt. There is quite a lot of problems with this battle, firstly, I have to add a lot of mud, and the mud dosen't look very good... Secondly the AI if commanding the English army, it will run around in circles because it won't take off skirmish mode. I tried it with some really basic horsemen, and I barely lost the battle against the English Archers. The French knights probably would sweep the field with the English archers.

And we need to have a complete list of all the battles being done, I don't know if this has been done or not, but I would prefer it to be finalized before I start on a battle that does not go into the final product.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Ok, Saranalos post the battles you have researched and add some comments on the difficulties of making them and such.

Ignoramus please post the battles you want in the demo here and follow with a few comments.

[Saranalos]

I haven't researched them all yet, but here is a basic list of battles that went on in the time period we are covering

1402-1403
Richard III campaigns in Scotland and Wales by usurping King Henry IV and his son, later Henry V.

1406
Florence conquers Pisa.

1415
Henry V is victorious over French at Agincourt.

1429
Joan of Arc leads French to break English siege of Orleans. Charles VII crowned king of France.

1448-53
Series of victories wins back for France almost all the previous English gains. End of Hundred Years' War.

1450
Mercenary leader, Francesco Sforza, seizes power in Milan.(Sforza snake?)

1453
Byzantine Empire conquered by the Turks. The capture of Constantinople by Turks leads to large numbers of teachers, scholars, and books coming to Italy.

1455-85
Long civil wars - Wars of the Roses - devastate England. Final victory of Henry IV founds Tudor dynasty. Barons stripped of much of their power. Medieval period ends.

1494
At Sforza's invitation, Charles VIII of France invades Italy.

1495
French capture Naples, but forced to leave by an alliance of Spain, the Empire, England, Venice and Milan.

1499
Louis XII of France seizes Milan.

1515
Battle of Marignano. Francis I of France defeats Swiss and regains Milan.

I cannot remember the exact date we stop at, so I'll leave it there. There is more I am sure, but I was being kicked off the computer, and didn't have time to make a full search.

I researched Agincourt, and with the details I got, I should be able to replicate it except for the mud.

I researched Agincourt because I knew that was going to be in the historical battles list, but I left the others because i was unsure of which of them would be in.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

We stop at 1600 I believe.

Looks like a lot of battles, I bet we will need to weed some out or release them later with further patches/updates.

[Ignoramus]

Sorry, I just got back from a week-long holiday.

1. The Siege of St. Elmo.
Stone Fort Assault
Numbers:

Turks:

1150 men armies x 2

Knights of St. John:

600 man army x 1

2. The Siege of Senglea.
Stone Fort Assault
Numbers:

Turks:

1000 man army x 1, 900 man army x 1

Knights of St. John:

800 man army x 1

3. The Siege of Birgu.
Stone Fort Assault
Numbers:

Turks:

900 men armies x 2

Knights of St. John:

800 man army x 1

4. The Battle of St. Paul's Bay.
Field Battle
Numbers:

Turks:

950 man army x 1

Knights of St. John:

600 man army x 1

Spanish Allies:

500 men armies x 2.

There you go, I'll give you a more detailed guide if you need it.

[Narayanese]

On banners for the demo:
Which vanilla faction will you be using?
My preference (in order to get reasonable short campaign goals) is
Castile/Spain = scythia
Turks = seleucid
but what about the knights of st john, is the julii faction ok?
Just so that I know where to place the banner graphics.
Where do I send them?

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I was under the impression that we had decided that it would be a series of historical battles. We do not have enough work done on the buildings and we would have to somehow insert the senate faction into the mini-campaign.

[Narayanese]

I still want to have the same factions replacing vanilla ones as in the full, it's less work that way for me. So onto which vannilla factions should I install to faction graphics?

[Narayanese]

On language and spelling:
At least my copy of Rome Total War is in brittish english, and it is likely that most players have learnt brittish english rather then american, so I think we should keep spelling things the brittish way.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

That is fine by me, I have learned both and can keep them straight in my head.

I think we need to quickly finalize the factions, after deciding to include the Imperial Diet there was a bit of a mix up, but it should be done quite quickly.

[Saranalos]

I just read about Barbarian Invasion, and I must say it looks pretty good, seems like we will have ballistas mounted on chariots, and night battles too... ~:) The thing I liked the most though, is the way some soldiers now seem to carry flaming torches at night...

[Ignoramus]

Where did you read about it?

[Saranalos]

A very expensive magazine... PC ZONE. I bought it just for RTW but it had some other good stuff as well. I just found out, that lightly armoured units will be able to swim in the game... No more bottelnecks at bridges, unless all your troops are heavily armoured.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Yeah, I love that feature it will force people to either take missile shots and try to punch straight through or diversify their armies. It will probably help me force myself to buy some normal light troops, not just skirmishers.

[Saranalos]

Yeah, the units being able to swim will add a whole new level of strategy. You will actually need light units, and not just the heaviest you can find.

[Yggdrasill]

Of course if you send gunpowder units to go swimming they shouldn't be able to fire afterwards. I wonder if we'll be able to model that...

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I doubt we will be able to model it, but maybe CA will include the ability to mod more of the game in the expansion. If not we will still have more to play with.

[caesar44]

that's it ?
hello anybody
~:confused: ~:confused: ~:confused: ~:confused: ~:confused:

[Saranalos]

That's what? It's been a slow couple of days...

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Yeah, it has been really slow lately. Oh, I have Model UN work this weekend so I will not be able to do too much on the unit balance and such. But I am going to start trying to draw up a tech tree and then I will post it. I will take into account the ideas and concerns voiced in the buildings thread and will be open to advice and such.

[caesar44]

hei , the mod is dead ??
hallo someone ?

[Narayanese]

hei , the mod is dead ??
hallo someone ?
Nope it's not dead
Here you are: a very WIP bohemian infantry (weapon and face and shoulder armour still need some changes)
http://img291.echo.cx/img291/8537/screenshot164nn.th.jpg (http://img291.echo.cx/my.php?image=screenshot164nn.jpg)

[Uesugi Kenshin]

The mod is still very much alive, we don't just post here.....

Nice looking unit. Just touch it up a tad and it should look great! (Though it may just be the screeny..)

[caesar44]

Nope it's not dead
Here you are: a very WIP bohemian infantry (weapon and face and shoulder armour still need some changes)
http://img291.echo.cx/img291/8537/screenshot164nn.th.jpg (http://img291.echo.cx/my.php?image=screenshot164nn.jpg)


yes !
~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:

[Yggdrasill]

This I found on the official forum in the new FAQ thread. Interesting for the mod I think




Q "Please reduce pointless low class spam armies. Increase the number of good, challenging battles. Decrease the number of boring, "only 1 winner here" battles.... yawn." and "Sort out the rebels to be more than cannon fodder and easy expansion."

A. We think you might be interested in the way the expansion handles rebellions, civil wars and the like.

[Saranalos]

Interesting... Very Interesting. Sounds good. Thanks Yggdrasill

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Ooooh. I hope it does get better, can't wait...

[Ignoramus]

Yes, Rebels that aren't just fun to watch getting slaughted by Creten Archers!

[Uesugi Kenshin]

GodsPetMonkey could you please tell me exactly who is helping you with the models/textures so I can make sure the team list is up-to-date.

Anybody who has been working on the mod please just check in, want to make sure I have gotten all of the people who have not actually worked on the mod off the list. I think I have gotten them all of, but I also want to make sure I have not removed anybody who has worked on the mod.

Thanks.

And here is the current faction list, just for the record.

*Barbarian: (west europe)
Castile and Leon
Kalmar Union
England
France
Burgundy
Scotland
*Rebel=West European Independent State

*Greek: (muslim)
Golden Horde
Moors
Mamluks
Ottoman Turks
*Rebel=Muslim Independent State

*Eastern: (italian)
Venice
Milan
Naples
*Rebel=Italian City State

*Roman: (german)
Imperial diet (Frankfort on Main)
Habsburgs
Saxony
Bavaria
*Rebel=German Free Imperial City

*Egypt: (orthodox)
Muscovy
*Rebel=Orthodox Christian Independent State
*(including balkan rebels)

*Carthaginian: (east catholic europe)
Poland
Hungary
*Rebels=Central European Independent State

[GodsPetMonkey]

GodsPetMonkey could you please tell me exactly who is helping you with the models/textures so I can make sure the team list is up-to-date.

Myself, obviously, modelling and texturing.
Narayanese, texturing and starting to model
econmists, texturing.

I have tried to contact both unit_35 and two_roses but neither have responded.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Ok, Two Roses did some work right? If so he will remain on the list because he did do some work and should get credit for it.

Did Unit 35 do any work? I don't remember him doing any.

[Narayanese]

For which faction replaces which, I've been following this scheme:
Burgundy = germania
Spain = scythia
England = gaul
France = dacia
Golden Horde = greekcities
Hapsburg = brutii
Hungary = numidia
Imperial Diet = spqr
Kalmar Union = spain
Bavaria = scipii
Mamluks = macedon
Milan = parthia
Moors = thrace
Muscovy = egypt
Naples = pontus = Knights of St John
Poland = carthage
Saxony = julii
Scotland = brittania
Turks = seleucid
Venice = armenia
I'd rather not change it since I've entered more then half of the faction symbols into the files.

A little change to the calmar union unit list
Native units in untranslated form below
Squires (heavy lancer)
Light cavalry (I'll change the one I have now, doesn't like it)
Crossbow cavalry
Spearmen (militia)
Handgunners
Archers
Crossbowmen
Burger crossbowmen
Guard spearmen (regular)
Light Arquebusiers
Heavy Arquebusiers
Halberdiers
Pikemen
National cavalry (reiter-type unit)
Arquebus cavalry
Musketeers

[Uesugi Kenshin]

As long as the cultures work out I don't think it matters too much which nation replaces which, well except for the SPQR.

[Narayanese]

here are translations into old danish, as good as I could

reiters with carbine = Landryttere medt lange rør
reiters with pistol = Landryttere medt sadelrør
halberdiers = Hellebaardierer

spell rør as roer if you don't want that danish letter

lange rør is "langroer" in old dutch btw, I suppose in german as well.

[rashidaddinsinan]

The Turks should have many more men than the Knights and Spanish at St. Paul's Bay... They should just be extremely disorganized. Had he realized the small size of the "gran soccorso" (great relief force) then Mustapha pasha would have fought a pitched battle rather than beat a hasty retreat to his ships.

[DochtorGajo]

Sorry for troubling you again but Is like to ask if youre planning to release demo with functional campaign or rather like ChivalryTW only MP and custom battle release?

[Uesugi Kenshin]

There won't be a campaign map, it will definately have MP and custom battles, and perhaps a few historical battles.

[DochtorGajo]

What about Ctw website? Is there any?

[Uesugi Kenshin]

This is what we've got.

[Ace Cataphract]

If you guys need any help, I'd be glad to do some of the more tedious and less difficult text work, including editing, writing unit descriptions, editing and working with text files, etc.

[Yggdrasill]

Working with text files and scripting would be much appreciated, especially files concerning the strategic map. Unit desciptions are covered, but we could use somebody who is willing to write good and accurate faction descriptions.

[Ace Cataphract]

I could do that. How long do you want them, and what do you want covered? The political situation followed by the historical background?

I also need to know the year that the campaign starts out.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

The campaign starts in 1402. Covering both the political situation and the historical background would be great. I don't know how long they should be though, it would all depend on how much you have to say about each faction I guess. If you pm me or ygg one of them we can let you know if it is too long or too short.

[Ace Cataphract]

Sorry about the delay. I've been busy, but I'm getting to them this week.

[gugul]

Interesting mod. Good luck with it!

[Uesugi Kenshin]

A couple of announcements. Firstly we have been unable to hold onto a campaign mapper and because of that the campaign is on hiatus. The release of MTW2 has also caused some members of the team to doubt whether it would be worthwhile for us to make a campaign game. We are still going forward with the custom/historical battles portion of the mod though.

Also we need a scripter.

[methoz]

ehm...nothing Bohemia? :(

[Akeichi Mitsuhide]

When is the final release of the mod?

[Ciaran]

When its done, as always.

[Warluster]

I may be alate but can I join up Reseacher?

[Wladyslaw IV]

Any folders need modding? I can make it quite interesting, and what people want to see (I'm hoping).


It may be partially ahistorical, but fun :idea2: Yes.

[Ghaust the Moor]

Is this mod dead?