View Full Version : What\'s your preferred army for multiplayer WE?
Masaki Nagatsuka
07-23-2002, 12:20
I'm just curious. I've seen a few gimps recently with just Musketeers and monks/yari samurai behind them. That seems to be ineffective if the opposing general knows what he's doing. I rolled through them..
When I'm online, I mostly just wonder what the enemy is using and why more than I worry about what I'm doing. I love the tactical aspect of this game.
What do you use given say... 15,000 koku? And how do you use them? I'm very interested! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
youssof_Toda
07-23-2002, 16:24
15k, lol normally you can buy 2-3 all cav armies with that
more seriously: 1 HC 3 NC 1 YC 2 AC 4 Musk 3 YS 2 Nag or something like that
[This message has been edited by youssof_Toda (edited 07-23-2002).]
Quote Originally posted by Masaki Nagatsuka:
I'm just curious. I've seen a few gimps recently with just Musketeers and monks/yari samurai behind them. That seems to be ineffective if the opposing general knows what he's doing. I rolled through them..
[/QUOTE]
lol, that is the way to do it ... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif IMO the gun/yari combo is the most powerful defensive combo; it is almost impossible to break it head on provided the defending general knows what he's doing http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
BTW, I love cavs so I always have Nag.cav, YC and CA in my army. Guns are must in 1.02 so I have a few guns too. The rest are shock troops (monks, nods) and a few Ysam. I dont like super-ashis and pumped up Ysams. Nagis are too slow and tire too fast.
Masaki Nagatsuka
07-23-2002, 16:34
I prefer small armies as well. However, people rarely join my games if I set the koku to less than 10k. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
Low koku (5000-6000) does not implies small armies. I always host 8000 koku games and there is no shortage of people joining my games http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Masaki Nagatsuka
07-23-2002, 16:37
Some people seem to think that guns are the best thing since sliced bread and load up 2/3 of their armies with them. I love that! Especially if they're the attackers. So easy to flank them.
What am I talking about! I almost always get my ass kicked! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif just lucky sometimes, I suppose.
Quote Originally posted by youssof_Toda:
more seriously: 1 HC 3 NC 1 YC 2 AC 4 Musk 3 YS 2 Nag or something like that
[/QUOTE]
AC = Ashi-Cav? cool didnt know they're in the game http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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TenkiKiller
07-23-2002, 17:08
ashi-cav lol or maybe ashi with bow-cav (more commonly known as cav arch)
3 monk 3 no-dachi 1 naggie 2 ys 2 arch 1 musk 2 ashi-cav http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif 1 nc 1 yc
youssof_Toda
07-23-2002, 18:15
depends on ur def of what 'low koku' is
16 Arquebusiers.
In Wedgies.
Attacking in the rain.
The Wet Gunny Wedgie Army of Doom.
GAH!
JeRrYgArCiA
07-24-2002, 06:54
I like 10 guns 4 yari sams and 2 cavs.....but thats my tweeker army.
-jerry
....SA..SA..SA....
..YC..NC..NC..YC..
...NG...NG...NG...
...ND...YS...ND...
......MU..MU......
........KS........
Never really wrote it out like that hehe. Almost looks like an upside down XMas tree.
Quote Guns are must in 1.02 so I have a few guns too[/QUOTE]
Hmmm beg to differ.... my guns dont see much action usually. They're just support. And look at Magy, who is hailed as one of the top players, he hardly if ever uses muskets.
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The Soul
"What people do to other souls
They take their lives - destroy their goals
Their basic pride and dignity
Is stripped and torn and shown no pity....
When this could be Heaven for Everyone"
Queen - Heaven for Everyone
MaJesticSoul Sakai
[This message has been edited by The Soul (edited 07-24-2002).]
My armies are balanced secrets......
youssof_Toda
07-25-2002, 03:21
Quote Originally posted by tootee:
AC = Ashi-Cav? cool didnt know they're in the game http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
[/QUOTE]
Arch Cav perhaps?
Dionysus9
07-26-2002, 01:56
Quote Originally posted by LordTed:
My armies are balanced secrets......[/QUOTE]
Not too hard to check the logfile tho!
Dionysus9
07-26-2002, 02:02
I normally play 10k games and my army is almost always:
1 H6 Dachi Daimyo w/ 1 Armor upgrade
2 H5 Dachi honor guard
3 H5 Yari Sams
2 H2 Archers
4 H3 Muskets w/ 1 armor upgrade
2 H2 Cavalry Archers
2 H4 Yari Cavalary
13 Koku leftover
Its a decent balanced army and works well in the rain (if you are expecting rain, switch at least 1 musk to an archer). One thing I like about it is it works well for attack and for defense. Never have to worry about rules either, because it satisfies most peoples rules (4 max no ashi, etc.).
Amp rags on me because I use the same army all the time, but I think it makes sense. When a general marches off to war he doesn't normally know if he will be attacker or defender, or if he will be fighting in rain, or trees, or hills, etc.
LittleGrizzly
07-26-2002, 05:42
bach from a newbie such as myself id suggest knocking those archers down to h0 as it will help
by archers i ment foot and cav archers...
[This message has been edited by LittleGrizzly (edited 07-25-2002).]
Too much money in those guns
I have none. All of my so think "good army" have been decimated by guns and yari
Quote bach from a newbie such as myself id suggest knocking those archers down to h0 as it will help
by archers i ment foot and cav archers...
[/QUOTE]
Hehe that is why you're a newbie!
You asked for that http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Umm. Well it's 'cos H0 run off the map too easy. Without giving you much chance to rally them.
Oh yes I play with 10k usually but only 'cos no-one likes anything else. When I I host I like 5k or 6k but not many join.
Makes the defeats that little bit quicker!
------------------
The Soul
"What people do to other souls
They take their lives - destroy their goals
Their basic pride and dignity
Is stripped and torn and shown no pity....
When this could be Heaven for Everyone"
Queen - Heaven for Everyone
MaJesticSoul Sakai
kamizaki_nurizeko
07-26-2002, 17:24
i use monk & musk armies...there good for taking objectives...but it works best in team fights, thatway theres a proper balanced army helping...and if im in a stupid mood ill jsut use monks and go all bezerker army mode :d
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there are two kind of killers...one is the justified murder......the other is the justice murder....which one are you?
mizuYari
07-26-2002, 18:26
The only one unit you could be certain from me is ... 1 yari taisho (usually H4 so I could ralley other troops. I found low honor taisho a bit hard to stop the routing).
The rest, I would like to experiment each time (perhaps that's why I suck)
Born a Yari squad commander
MizuYari
GAH!
If you use Vanya's log reader, enemy army compositions will be revealed to you with the greatest of ease. Its even grahic!
You can view how your army fared with the enemy visually across all the stats.
Anyway... this is for the newbies out there that might not have had the luxury of using such a tool...
Dionysus9
07-27-2002, 04:05
Quote Originally posted by LittleGrizzly:
bach from a newbie such as myself id suggest knocking those archers down to h0 as it will help
by archers i ment foot and cav archers...
[This message has been edited by LittleGrizzly (edited 07-25-2002).][/QUOTE]
As Soul pointed out, I think the morale of H2 Archers justifies the extra expense. Same goes for my H2 CA. I use my archers to boost morale in areas that need morale help, and it just doesn't work with H0 and H1 archers...they are scared off far too easily to be of any use to me. I've seen H2 Archer-charges route entire armies several times. They seem to LOVE flanking nodachi. I love my H2 archers, and they are worth every penny.
As for Ted's criticism of my guns, he is probably right (how can I really disagree w/ Lord Ted?). But part of my strategy w/ that army is normally to win the ranged fight. Most people take H2 or H3 muskets, w/ 0 upgrades. My extra armor allows my musks to stand against plain musks and win almost every time. Forcing the enemy to charge into my waiting hold/hold spears has worked for me time and time again.
And where would I put the extra koku anyway? I suppose I could buff-up my Nodachi and Spears, but they seem to do well enough at H5. Yari-cav get too expensive after H4, and I perfer not to put all my eggs in one basket.
Anyway, thanks for the constructive comments, but I like what I've got.
Come get some Grizz.
Once I figured out that if you position your men too close behind the musketeer lines while trading volleys you lose people in back and front I've done pretty good.
Being a general newb when it comes to online play I've just mixed effective armies I've seen. 4 Musketeers with 4 Yari Ash or 4 Yari Sam, 2 units of Cav archers, 1-3 units of no dachi and 1 unit of Naginata for my general. That way the general is mobile, can take a few blows, and still manages a punch. I've actually done okay using musketeers for offense by taking an extra unit of yari ash with high armor and medium honor..
Krasturak
07-27-2002, 12:52
Gah!
Krast's favourite army is Monsta in the center, Devil on the left and Krast on the right.
Sadly, those days have passed us by ...
1 HC
6 Yari sams(I like a solid core)
5 cav archers
2 monks
2 no dachi
TakaRatta Yamamoto
07-29-2002, 23:01
Yeah, taking your Archers down to 0 honor sounds like a smart thing, but after this last weekend of experimenting with doing that, i think you should leave them at H2...if you take to Honor 0 they are basically just there to shoot thier bows, and you do not get to depend on them if you need more foot soldiers, cause they run faster than ashi's at 0
BarryNoDachi
07-30-2002, 19:43
im not sure how much extra honour and upgrades helps musks, i know that honour doesn't make them shoot any more accurate and also i have seen h2 guns fight (or shoot) till the last man in a gunfight so i guess you just got make sure that a unit doesn't get too close to rout them. armour upgrades im not too sure about but i beleive the difference is only marginal, but if it works for you bachus then keep them m8 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif and as for archers i prefer to knock the archers down to 0 as i use them mainly for shooting only, so i guess it depends on how you want to use them http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif and Ho cav archers i have won and lost battles due to then being put in the back of a vital area after the melle has begun http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
Quote Originally posted by BarryNoDachi:
im not sure how much extra honour and upgrades helps musks, ...
[/QUOTE]
Well... you are about to be endowed with the power of knowledge!
Adding weapons upgrades helps arquebusiers in H2H combat.
First of all, the "improved" weapon is heavier, so as to allow packing MORE powder into the barrel for added power and range). Thus, when clubbing the enemy with their gun, the greater momentum acheived by the greater mass translates into more power projected onto the skull over the impact area. This means its easier to kill some of those thick-headed monks!
Second, the "improved" weapon features enhanced geometries. The butt is narrower, the barrel longer and thicker. And, when the weapon is "legendary", it features relief carvings depicting the heroic feats of its owner. Now, you might be compelled to dismiss the combat benefits of these improvements... but let me tell you: they are significant! The slimmer butt means that the area of impact is diminshed when striking enemies with it. This means that the force applied to the skull is greater because the same force is now concentrated over a smaller area. The longer and thicker barrel provides additional "poking" capabilites to fend off the enemy while you get into a position to take a wide swing at 'em. This helps extend the survivability of the unit! And the relief... it serves TWO purposes... first to scare the begeezus out of the enemy by conveying to them your martial prowess on the field of battle... and second... it hurts when you get struck by the relief across the face! And the imprint it leaves will scare those around you foolish enough to consider taking you on!
GAH!
Swashbuckling with an unloaded arquebus also requires great strength. More so that using a spear, naginata or even a nodachi sword. This sheer strength means arquebusiers are men of great agility and prowess... and are not to be triffled with on the field of battle.
Why do you think so many samurais run away before even REACHING arquebusiers? Do you REALLY think its the lead diet?
GAH!
BarryNoDachi
07-31-2002, 00:23
im not too sure why you haven't got that pi icon yet vanya http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
ShadesWolf
07-31-2002, 00:33
A nice and balanced one
light cav
cav archers
Yari
Archer/guns
and No dachi.
Nice and balanced....
I hate guns, they take so much away from the games....
Dionysus9
07-31-2002, 00:58
Actually, I'm suprised he has not been offered a job writing for the New Yorker.
Pretty damn funny Vanya, as always.
Bachus,
The armor upgrade on musk doesn't give much additional protection against gunfire. The honor upgrade doesn't improve accuracy much either. However, what you have discovered from playing v102 is that, when it comes to a gunbattle, a very small initial advantage translates into a big advantage after a while. It doesn't take much initial advantage to come out of the gun battle with 50% of your guns intact while the opponents guns are wiped out even with the 4 max rule. Four guns have the potential of killing almost every man in the opposing army. So, the looser of the gun battle has to advance into a whithering fire in which kills/volley doubles at close range with -6 point morale penalties on each of his targetted units and generally lower morale on all his units because he has fewer units than the enemy.
LittleGrizzly
08-01-2002, 05:09
but if ur clever u dont march slowly towards the guns
JeRrYgArCiA
08-01-2002, 09:47
I'm assuming yuuki means, marching quickly, grizzly, I'm surprised i have won at all, i have a habit to lose the gun battle every game... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
If you can manage to outflank the enemy army then you can win even if you loose the gun battle. I can do it against someone who doesn't respond well to the flanking maneuver. However, all the good players that I know always rotate their army to face me. I'm not considering the use of BN or all out rush army. Rush army might work, but the guns were left as strong as they are to stop the rush. We're talking guns that are at least 3 times more powerful and infantry that is 25% slower than in STW.
BarryNoDachi
08-02-2002, 11:24
could vanya not get a comedy icon, tera?
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
A long time ago... when Japan still had its innocence amidst the chaotic winds of the Sengoku Jidai... all I asked for was an icon with no head. It could be the KENSAI I have now... just with no head. Would be nicer if they could use the pic from my logreader...
Krast should get a chef icon too if they give me my headless icon...
GAH!
BarryNoDachi
08-02-2002, 21:05
would krasts icon have a pic of your head in his legendary soup?
maybe we will even see this coofin thta he always talks about http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
This topic will be transfered into the Pre-archives forum soon. This is your last chance to add your ideas to the discussion.
[This message has been edited by Cheetah (edited 08-05-2002).]
Cat&Wolf, please transfer this topic into the Pre-archives forum.
Cat & Wolf, where are you?
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