View Full Version : Creative Assembly QA from CA for the Org-ites
However, out of the kindness of his heart, Roxy has volunteered to answer - or ask around in order to find the answers to - five questions, if you can sort out a list amongst yourselves. The usual rules for 'unofficial CA contact' apply - we take no legal responsibility for the answers, some questions may not be answerable for legal reasons, ten questions is not five questions, if you don't like the offer we can always withdraw it, etc etc...
I suggest a spot of discussion over the weekend before someone posts up a clearly-marked final list.
*nudge nudge*
P.S. I wonder what the record is for acronyms in a thread title... hmmm...
d6veteran
09-16-2004, 20:14
Question: What's the deal with the routing banners?
;)
Seriously though, I would like to ask that.
Medieval Assassin
09-16-2004, 20:17
Men running into the river, not going over the bridge, have you noted THIS HUGE BUG, and fixed it? If you havent, you best be patching...
THIS IS THE PROBLEM...
They don't fall off the bridge, like in STW and MTW if you ordered a unit to cross a bridge you click on the other side, they would line up and cross the bridge, No, no no, here they just run in a straight line and vanish, I've seen it every other game
----------------| |---------------------
..BRIDGE->........| |
______________| |__________________
./ \
.|
XX CORPS
.|
XXXX ................+++
XXXX.................( In oppose to moving here
XXXX..................then crossing, they assume
XXXX..................a staright line into the river and all die...... ALL)
And they all die, in medieval they would stack in front of the bridge, apperntly they dont here... :S
__________________
(This one NEEDS to be answered.)
The_Emperor
09-16-2004, 20:24
Ok my question is...
Has the bug from the demo regarding cavalry pursuit of routing units been adressed? By this I mean the fact that sometimes my cavalry will run alongside or in front of routing infantry instead of killing them.
Sometimes it is questionable as to who is the one being pursued! :charge:
Colovion
09-16-2004, 20:33
Why is the "Total War Cam" not truly the Total War Cam? Will it be fixed from demo to full release?
octavian
09-16-2004, 20:37
Men running into the river, not going over the bridge, have you noted THIS HUGE BUG, and fixed it? If you havent, you best be patching...
THIS IS THE PROBLEM...
They don't fall off the bridge, like in STW and MTW if you ordered a unit to cross a bridge you click on the other side, they would line up and cross the bridge, No, no no, here they just run in a straight line and vanish, I've seen it every other game
(This one NEEDS to be answered.)
are you playing a Mod? 1) i have NEVER seen that 2) someone from CA already posted in reply to someone who asked that question. he said that as soon as you are using a mod, the AI can no longer be expected to preform at par. (i believe many of the events in battle are choreographed)
Agravain of Orkney
09-16-2004, 20:46
In what ways is multi-player different in Rome TW from Medieval TW/Viking Invasion?
saundersag
09-16-2004, 20:52
My question is if they can give some example of how moddable rtw will be. For example will they give you programs with the game to mod it. Will the files be in data files and will they not use obscure file extensions. So what have they done to make Rtw easy to mod.
Mr. Juice
09-16-2004, 21:06
May I suggest a question about KILLING SPEED?
Also, has the game gone through any more optimization since the demo?
d6veteran
09-16-2004, 21:19
Great question Agravain!
In what ways is multi-player different in Rome TW from Medieval TW/Viking Invasion?
I'd like details on the multiplayer as well. Can you load/host historical battles or preset custom battles for mp play?
Colovion
09-16-2004, 21:21
May I suggest a question about KILLING SPEED?
Also, has the game gone through any more optimization since the demo?
I second these. ~:cheers:
Blodrast
09-16-2004, 21:49
erm, I think the idea of this thread was to gather some 5 of the questions we'd most like answered... and not pointing bugs.
I don't really see how asking them "why do troops fall in the water", or "what's wrong with the killing speed" qualifies.
Yes, of course these are issues, but they don't really belong in this category, IMO.
We have a separate thread for that, with all the issues (good and bad, and not limited to bugs).
My impression was that this was more of a "how does that feature of the game work"
kind of thing ... to give an example, similar to "how does sapping work ?"; although this had been answered before in an interview, but it shows my point.
I personally think it would be better if each person posting in this thread would come up with a numbered list of 5 (or less) questions, ordered by their importance, that have to do with various features in the game; e.g., are trade routes the same as in MTW ? to what extent can you influence the VnV's that the members of your family get ? etc.
And in the end, someone should just put them together, see the questions that were most frequent, and summarize them for the CA people to answer them. As they said, "ten questions is not five".
Besides, what kind of answer do you expect when pointing out a bug ? How does that enrich your knowledge of the game's features ? It's a bug, and they will have either fixed it in the full release, or not. And if not, they might fix it in the possible patch, or not. Period. Would any of these answers give any of you any satisfaction ? 'Cause I sure wouldn't feel any better no matter what the answer were... So perhaps we should try to focus on question related to the actual game/campaign/MP etc...
This, of course, is my personal opinion. Everybody is free to ignore it or disagree with it.
SouthwaterPanda
09-16-2004, 22:05
Mmm, I was about to post something to that effect. Asking a question with a Yes/No answer, when the game ships a week on Friday, is probably a waste of a slot - although Roxy is at his best with Yes/No questions ;-)
Kraellin
09-16-2004, 22:05
only a few things i want to know.
1. is there a multplayer campaign included in the release?
2. if not, is there any planned for r:tw, perhaps as an extra release or part of an expansion pack?
3. will one still be able to go thousands of miles across a sea to invade in one turn?
4. if not, how will it work now?
5. do i still get my normal 100 free copies for being a moderator here?
K.
Lol, this sounds more like a demo patch request thread!!
So, just to keep in the same way of thinking, my question is what kind of support (how many patches) will we receive for R:TW? :hide:
Agreed. I think the questions should be about features.
Very good point, Blodrast.
Yes, we may want to ask questions other than those that will become clear anyway as soon as the game is released in a few days.
1. Are there any considerations at CA to ever try a MP campaign, or have they given up on that concept completely?
2. TW is very mod-friendly. Would the inclusion of modding tools be an idea considered for future titles (or perhaps the expansion)?
3. As the killing-speed-question is important to many players and for MP battles cannot be solved by a player made mod (reasons are outlined in various threads) could CA include a "MP-mod" in a patch or in the expansion which can be activated for players who like more time for tactics in their battles? (or does CA see another way to keep both worlds happy?)
4. After sales support is a good one. How many patches are planned ?
Well, those are my most burning questions. Everything else I can wait till I have the game.
Nigel
Colovion
09-16-2004, 22:31
that makes sense.
How about this:
1: Land Based Trade - does it produce? In MTW the trading was almost entirely sea based and if you wanted to build a trade empire without ships it was an oxymoron. I seem to remember the Silk Road bringing in many goods throughout this timeframe and bringing the trade from the East certainly brought a greater economic benefit to the European based factions which were able to exploit this trade. Will Land Based Trade be improved at all or is trade in general being revamped in any way?
2: There was a notable response to the demo from Orgites and i was wondering if any (most) of the concerns were addressed. (For list of concerns see this thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=35416))
3: I know that farming is a big income feature - but fishing used to also be a big part of revenue and sustinance for folks back in Roman times. Does the game reflect this?
4: Will you be able to take soldiers/generals/royalty prisoners and torture them to give you information you need about their faction's armies, ships, cities etc?
5: We've been told about the diplomacy system. Can you post a list of things which can be asked for of another faction as well as the list of things which can be given in return?
Colovion
09-16-2004, 22:33
oh yeah - i don't think they plan for patches.
remember - patches are a result of people hounding the developers to get teh game out so it has some flaws or isn't balanced somehow - once it hits mass market people find these flaws and they're fixed. Remember back when computer games first came out and there were no internet connections (or they were all 14.4kbs) - yeah that's right, no patches. NONE. Patches are a crutch which we deal with to get the game sooner.
Medieval Assassin
09-16-2004, 22:42
I'd rather know if this major bug has been fixed, then know some of these other questions, if this bug shows up like it has been, I probably will think twice about buying the game.
metatron
09-16-2004, 22:55
Why do the soldiers in MTW speak Latin, but the Romans in RTW speak English?
d6veteran
09-16-2004, 23:20
1) The white routing banners that we saw in the demo are not only confusing, but distracting and out of place compared to the rest of the graphics. Why were the banners altered in this manner from past TW games?
2) On the default unit size setting will I get Roman units that are 81 men in strenght (the number of men in a Century), facing Barbarian units that are 120-200 men in strength? My point is will the default unit size provide not only historically accurate Century size units to maneuvar on the battlefield, but will I be throwing these Centuries at (for example) barbarian formations that are larger in size to account for the greater man power it took to be at even odds with a disciplined Roman unit/Century?
3) How is Multiplayer different in RTW from MTW? For instance will you be able to host historical or custom battles for online play?
4) In the single player game, what will determine if you fight a battle at night or during the day?
5) Why did CA choose not to use more historical titles for ranks? For example why is a Barbian Leader a 'Captain' and not say a 'Chieftan', or why is a Roman General not a 'Prefect' or 'Legate'?
My questions are mostly about the SP campaign, as this is the part I'm most excited about...
1) There are two seasons. Are turns keyed to seasons, or will there be multiple turns per season?
2) Which was more important in deciding movement allotments -- geographic reality, or gameplay necessity?
3) I've heard conflicting reports about whether you can "win" without completely obliterating all other factions. What's the story on this?
4) What's the average gameplay time (in turns) of the testers who have taken the campaign from start to finish?
5) What guidelines does CA give their employees about game testing hours? Ensemble Studios had a 10-hours-a-week from everyone after alpha (including reception staff) requirement at one point, thus the question.
Thanks!
Armchair Athlete
09-17-2004, 00:56
My question is if they can give some example of how moddable rtw will be. For example will they give you programs with the game to mod it. Will the files be in data files and will they not use obscure file extensions. So what have they done to make Rtw easy to mod.
I second this one. In the interviews CA had done so far they said they will not really be going into this in depth until a couple of months after the release, so it would be good if we can get a bit of info now.
EDIT - I guess if I were to ask 5 question they would be
1. The aforementioned one about modding
2. How can you influence whether you can fight in day or night?
3. Will faction re-emergences still be in like they were in MTW (tied to loyalty of province etc) and will they re-emerge with good quality troops?
4. What does land based trade involve? Is it just as profitable as sea based trade?
5. If we at the .org were to ask for advanced copies of RTW would your answer be the same as the answer to this question? (haha this one will get 'em!)
Colovion
09-17-2004, 01:07
I second this one. In the interviews CA had done so far they said they will not really be going into this in depth until a couple of months after the release, so it would be good if we can get a bit of info now.
they didn't answer this question in the dev chat so I doubt we'll get an answer now
1) There are two seasons. Are turns keyed to seasons, or will there be multiple turns per season?
Each turn is a season. Two turns per year.
3) I've heard conflicting reports about whether you can "win" without completely obliterating all other factions. What's the story on this?
by capturing 2/3 of the map like in MTW I would guess
Tomisama
09-17-2004, 01:49
There are defiantly two different camps to satisfy here. I myself have no interest in SP, my focus is strictly on the battlefield (don’t really have time for anything else). Maybe we can split the questions up. Two for SP, two for MP, and one that we share in general?
Just a thought ~:yin-yang:
Encaitar
09-17-2004, 03:01
(Repeating some of what others have said):
1. With army movement on the campaign map, do different units have different 'movement points'? i.e. can an army with just cavalry in it move further in one turn than an army with just light infantry, which can in turn move further than an army with heavy infantry?
2. How can you influence whether you fight during the day or at night?
3. Will faction re-emergences still be in like they were in MTW (tied to loyalty of province etc) and will they re-emerge with good quality troops?
4. How has multiplayer been changed from MTW/VI? (e.g. new options/features/game types)
5. How will we be able to mod the campaign map (since obviously it will be nothing like modding it in MTW/STW)? Will there be a 'campaign map editor'?
Sir Robin
09-17-2004, 05:09
Can overland trade routes earn as much as oversea trade routes?
I recall that they exist but not much detail on how they work or their value.
Can all cavalry armies move faster than mixed or exclusively foot forces?
I could see this being either way but would like to know.
Is the Roman Arcani unit still in the game and if it is, is it a tactical assassin style unit like the battlefield ninjas?
Never saw a description released about this unt.
Will the strategic map be as difficult to mod as the map in MTW?
Dreaming of making a Birthright AD&D mod despite my meager abilities.
discovery1
09-17-2004, 05:18
HAve only one question, and if it has been answered elsewhere, please tell me.
How will logistics be handed in RTW? Will it be like in MTW, where armies could get cut off and it wouldn't matter? Or will we be encouraged to maintain lines of supply? I hope so; it would open new strtegic possiblities not seen in previous TW games.
HAve only one question, and if it has been answered elsewhere, please tell me.
How will logistics be handed in RTW? Will it be like in MTW, where armies could get cut off and it wouldn't matter? Or will we be encouraged to maintain lines of supply? I hope so; it would open new strtegic possiblities not seen in previous TW games.
Very good point would also like to know that.
Shaitan
ToranagaSama
09-17-2004, 06:50
My primary question is a bit more general, if not simple. Question 3 is probably most viable for the Q and A:
1) Why did you fix things that weren't broken? I'm asking in regarding to the Interface.
I like many others are EXPERT at the Shogun and Medieval Interface. I will take no pleasure in learning to master Rome's Interface. Yes, you've been so kind as to provide something approximating the Shogun/Medieval interface, but unfortunately, it falls a bit short in comparison.
I just don't get it, as it wasn't broken.
2) Will it be possible to *marry* Rome's Campaign Map to the Shogun/Medieval Battle Engine?
Specifically, I like to see both the Shogun and Medieval maps modded with Rome's Campaign Map features (diplomacy, etc.).
In other words, I didn't enjoy the Demo, but look forward to Rome's Campaign Map advances, and would prefer to use it along with the *old* Medieval and/or Shogun Battle Engine.
3) Considering the feedback CA has received regarding the Demo, what changes have been made to the Final Release?
Somebody Else
09-17-2004, 08:23
1. Is there any provision for the Roman habit of building a fort everytime they camped for the night? Ie. If a Roman army is attacked in the campaign map - will it have fortifications to fight from?
2. Will it be possible to upgrade units to different classes? Say if a legionnary happens to show an aptitude for command - and end up leading an army - would he stay in his legionnary unit, or would he be transferred to a general unit? Taking Sertorius as an example. If so, how will it work?
3. How far can an army move in one turn on the campaign map?
3) Considering the feedback CA has received regarding the Demo, what changes have been made to the Final Release?
This to me is a very important question and one that covers all the issues that were raised from the demo.
I think it is a waste to ask factual questions that will be easily answered when we get the game.
The only question I am interested in hearing answered is CA's response to the almost universal concern here that combat in the demo is resolved too quickly - both in terms of movement speed and killing speed. It is true that this concern might prove to be ill founded when we get the final game, but I am by nature a pessimist, so I do not count on it. I have not heard anyone from CA react to this concern and this Q&A is our best chance to get a reaction.
The_Emperor
09-17-2004, 11:35
Another issue related to the demo and the new game is...
Will we be able to hide the interface in much the same way as we did in MTW with the F keys? or be able to revert back to the classic Total War one?
Orda Khan
09-17-2004, 11:44
Well I don't think it's really worth sorting through these questions IMO.... by the time we pick the 'magic' 5 questions we will already have the game. CA could quite easily answer the most burning issue regarding speed but somehow they seem to be very silent about the subject.
.......Orda
CA could quite easily answer the most burning issue regarding speed but somehow they seem to be very silent about the subject.
That's what makes me nervous. If there was a "good" answer to that issue that would reassure folk here, it would probably be simple and so would have been made - e.g. "don't worry, the final game can be played slower" or "don't worry, we made Trebia a cakewalk for the Carthaginians, the real battles last longer".
If however, the answer is not a pleasing one - e.g. "sorry, we are targeting the RTS crowd" or "whoops, we didn't spot that. It's too hard to fix. Maybe someday..." - you can understand why they are silent.
You are right we may find out if we could have had a good answer very soon, but if it is not a pleasing answer it would be good to start a dialogue now (with a view to patching or modding).
Given CAs silence, I think it is important the QA includes a question specifically on speed (rather than just general chances since the demo, which is a good question in its own right) so it cannot be evaded.
Anyway fingers crossed, the game looks nice and the campaign aspect sounds much improved - I just hope the battles are at the MTW/STW pace.
I don't think it does any good to speculate. If we're honest we're going to buy this game no matter what.
After we get it we'll start begging for a patch to the otherwise unplayable game, scream that we're going back to MTW never to touch RTW again, moan about the lack of historical accuracy etc.
I can say this since that's how I react myself...
The coregamers (us) are secure customers. We're not the focus for this new game since we'll get it no matter what. It's time to bring new blood in, and that means flashy graphics, easy interface and flaming pigs.
GilJaysmith
09-17-2004, 12:26
I'll answer the killing-speed one out of the kindness of my heart... and not in any way because it's getting so I can't look at a thread on this forum without seeing the usual suspects grumbling about it :-)
In the demo, the units are high-valour and small-sized and are deployed close to one another, and they make mincemeat of one another as a result. The choice of unit size was made to help the demo frame rate on low-spec machines. If you have larger units then the melees will last longer - aside from the numbers themselves, the unit frontage will be different. I think I've seen people posting to that effect after experiments with modding the demo.
Note: as for why you haven't had an answer to this question until now, several possibilities are on offer:
- everyone here was *extremely* busy
- everyone here knew there was no problem because of the above reasons
- a few people grumbling at the .org every time we do something new is considered par for the course ;-)
Soulflame
09-17-2004, 12:33
Most of the questions I have, have already been asked in this thread, so I'll just copy-paste them (with original poster), so that it's clear that I am supporting those questions.
For me, these 5 I'd like answered:
1. (Kraellin) is there a multplayer campaign included in the release? (Nigel)
Are there any considerations at CA to ever try a MP campaign, or have they given up on that concept completely?
2. (Saundersag) My question is if they can give some example of how moddable rtw will be. For example will they give you programs with the game to mod it. Will the files be in data files and will they not use obscure file extensions. So what have they done to make Rtw easy to mod.
3. (Colovion) Will you be able to take soldiers/generals/royalty prisoners and torture them to give you information you need about their faction's armies, ships, cities etc?
4. (D6veteran) How has multiplayer been changed from MTW/VI? (e.g. new options/features/game types)
5. (New, my own, Soulflame) Are there plans to release historical battles after the game hits the shelves? Like a monthly new map release akin to some RTS's, which release new maps to battle upon every few weeks or so?
I'll answer the killing-speed one out of the kindness of my heart... and not in any way because it's getting so I can't look at a thread on this forum without seeing the usual suspects grumbling about it :-)
In the demo, the units are high-valour and small-sized and are deployed close to one another, and they make mincemeat of one another as a result. The choice of unit size was made to help the demo frame rate on low-spec machines. If you have larger units then the melees will last longer - aside from the numbers themselves, the unit frontage will be different. I think I've seen people posting to that effect after experiments with modding the demo.
Note: as for why you haven't had an answer to this question until now, several possibilities are on offer:
- everyone here was *extremely* busy
- everyone here knew there was no problem because of the above reasons
- a few people grumbling at the .org every time we do something new is considered par for the course ;-)
Hey Gil! Good to see you happen to come by now and then. :yes: And thanks for the answer.
So in effect the killrate isn't that high, and it has not really been altered for the demo? I mean they are high valour but that increases the defensive value as well, or not? ~:confused:
But I want to support Gil a little bit here, my tests with bigger units have indeed been much slower, only marginally faster than MTW. But it is not too great that people with lowend computers have to be Pause-whores to play the game properly. So I hope dearly that my worries are unfounded (they are less critical than before though).
1) Why did you fix things that weren't broken? I'm asking in regarding to the Interface.
I like many others are EXPERT at the Shogun and Medieval Interface. I will take no pleasure in learning to master Rome's Interface. Yes, you've been so kind as to provide something approximating the Shogun/Medieval interface, but unfortunately, it falls a bit short in comparison.
I just don't get it, as it wasn't broken.
It wasn't broken that is true, but while we feel more confident with the old system I have noticed a couple of times in previews that CA has been padded on the back for their changes to the interface. So something that isn't broken might still be better in terms of allround playability for more people...
I don't think it does any good to speculate.
I'll answer the killing-speed one...
Magraev, I am glad that you were wrong!~;) The idea of speculating was to try to tease out an answer.
GilJaysmith thanks for answering - I realise it is a bit of a thankless task, as it may only lead to a further line of grumbling... But from my point of view, it's a reassuring answer.
~:cheers:
I never thought about the unit size issue. I tried playing with huge numbers in MTW, but found it hard to position well on the map (hills too small etc) and easier to get flanked (you could afford fewer units in early battles), so I gave up. However, I'll bear it in mind with RTW.
Edit: Kraxis, how do you change unit size in the demo? If elephants are overpowered - as they appear to me from the demo - raising the normal unit sizes but not the elephants would be a (history wise) nice way of re-balancing. (I know that would require a mod).
Edit: Kraxis, how do you change unit size in the demo? If elephants are overpowered - as they appear to me from the demo - raising the normal unit sizes but not the elephants would be a (history wise) nice way of re-balancing. (I know that would require a mod).
I have use two options, a hexeditor and the Rodeo mod-generator. The latter is significantly easier. Get it at twcenter.net. There you can select units to be at their max (but you can also individually adjust any unit), so you can actually get a few really big battles.
Thanks, GilJaysmith!
I kept the demo on my hard drive for about a week, and then uninstalled it...it is what it is: A short DEMOnstration of some of the features of the game, a teaser to build interest and momentum for the full release. I have the utmost confidence that you and CAs hard work will be worth the wait, and as in the past you will support and "fix" any issues that do come up.
My only question right now would be:
What is planned for the inevitable expansion? I know you guys must already have a few good ideas for it! ~D
GilJaysmith
09-17-2004, 14:51
The kindness of my heart runneth over, and here are a couple more one-liners:
- men running into rivers... not known to be a problem. Presumed to be down to modding the demo. Men can fall into the river and drown, but not in the sense that a unit ordered to cross the river will just walk in a straight line into the depths.
- routing units... their flags now pulse between white and the original faction flag, if I'm understanding rightly.
- do we respond to forum feedback in general... the thread which organised the demo feedback into a single place and gave reasoned details about problems was very helpful and led to some changes, so in that sense yes. Threads which turn into rants and declarations of "I won't buy this game unless X"... less useful. If we think a feature will help sell the game to a lot of people, one person threatening not to buy it is not a convincing counter-argument.
The_Emperor
09-17-2004, 15:39
Many thanks Gil! :bow:
One question I have based on the demo and linked in from previous TW titles...
Do we have an (Alt-click in MTW) function where we can order the whole army to move in formation without having to make a group of the whole army? (I mean the command to make all units move together in formation at the same speed)
It was a very useful command in MTW and I do hope it is in the full game.
Encaitar
09-17-2004, 15:44
Wonderful to hear. Many thanks indeed Gil! ~:)
Barkhorn1x
09-17-2004, 15:58
Threads which turn into rants and declarations of "I won't buy this game unless X"... less useful. If we think a feature will help sell the game to a lot of people, one person threatening not to buy it is not a convincing counter-argument.
Ha - I hear you. It must be a drag to poor your heart and soul into a project only to get rants about "issues" which are not even part of the release code. :balloon2:
OK - a** kissing mode off. ~:joker:
Good news about the Unit Formations/killing speed and the Routing Flags. I for one am very excited about the release, as I delved into the "text files" from the demo and really like what I see.
Barkhorn.
Mr. Juice
09-17-2004, 16:54
GilJaysmith, thank you very much for your replies!
GAH! So much to quote, so little knowledge of doing it... :dizzy2:
-Men running into rivers... not known to be a problem. Presumed to be down to modding the demo. Men can fall into the river and drown, but not in the sense that a unit ordered to cross the river will just walk in a straight line into the depths.
I'm beginning to believe that now. In the original tutorial the troops had no problems in getting to the bridge. But I'm still a bit fearful that this migth be carried over into later mods. Could be disasterous to the diversity of battles.
- routing units... their flags now pulse between white and the original faction flag, if I'm understanding rightly.
And there was much rejoice... weeehh weeehhh.
Good to know something has been done. It is perhaps not the best we could have hoped for but in my opinion almost anything is better than the blank banners (no they are not white).
Do we have an (Alt-click in MTW) function where we can order the whole army to move in formation without having to make a group of the whole army? (I mean the command to make all units move together in formation at the same speed)
Seconded! And added: Turning individual units like the good old Alt-click (no more dragging).
frogbeastegg
09-17-2004, 17:10
Assorted GilJaysmith being kind
Thank you; it's like a weight has been lifted from my tiny amphibian mind. On the basis of that I will move to the 'buying on day of UK release' crowd; some of my concerns have been eased, the rest I will leave to faith in CA. Speed was a major issue to me as I couldn't keep up even with pause.
3) Considering the feedback CA has received regarding the Demo, what changes have been made to the Final Release?
This to me is a very important question and one that covers all the issues that were raised from the demo.
Not to say I'm not interested in the answer, but this question probably covers a bit too much ground to be effectively answered, if the expectation is that the answer will cover ALL the issues raised.
Colovion
09-17-2004, 17:29
Wow! Thanks for the feedback Gil! I'm more excited about the full release since I first saw the game engine in Time Commanders!
It's great to see the CA team posting on the Org more these days, keep up the good work.
Blodrast
09-17-2004, 18:24
The kindness of my heart runneth over, and here are a couple more one-liners:
LOL, thank you, Gil.
- do we respond to forum feedback in general... the thread which organised the demo feedback into a single place and gave reasoned details about problems was very helpful and led to some changes, so in that sense yes. Threads which turn into rants and declarations of "I won't buy this game unless X"... less useful. If we think a feature will help sell the game to a lot of people, one person threatening not to buy it is not a convincing counter-argument.
I'm sure that most people would be real glad to see some of the devs making a post every now and then... it gives a lot more confidence in the final product (since it's obvious that the developers are not totally ignoring their fans), it significantly raises the spirits (in a good way ;) ), and generally makes people real happy.
Of course you don't have time to post every day, maybe not even once a week, but an occasional drop-by with a couple of posts every couple of weeks or so, especially at hot times like this is would be highly appreciated by most people, I am sure.
At any rate, thank you for your feedback ~:thumb:
Not to be a whiner now, but speaking of the thread that apparently was useful to some extent (which I'm really glad to hear), one of you guys could have dropped a line telling us 'yeah, we'll look into it if/when we have time'. Nothing more than that, it would have been enough. Reckon it would have made a bigger difference than you may guess.
Anyway, thank you guys for the feedback and for taking time to talk to us every now and then ~:cheers:
Not to say I'm not interested in the answer, but this question probably covers a bit too much ground to be effectively answered, if the expectation is that the answer will cover ALL the issues raised.
Yeah, agreed. Plus, Gil's actually just answered on a couple of the most talked about topics regarding the Demo. ~:cheers:
You know I can answer some of these question via my reading of everything CA members have said and my studying any screens that come along.
3. will one still be able to go thousands of miles across a sea to invade in one turn?
4. if not, how will it work now?
Moving armies by sea is more dicey now as you have to load the army into ships and send them on their way. Taking how ever long it takes the ship to get from point A to point B. If your ships are lost the troops on them are lost too. Strategic agents are moved this way now too with the same risks.
1: Land Based Trade - does it produce? In MTW the trading was almost entirely sea based and if you wanted to build a trade empire without ships it was an oxymoron. I seem to remember the Silk Road bringing in many goods throughout this timeframe and bringing the trade from the East certainly brought a greater economic benefit to the European based factions which were able to exploit this trade. Will Land Based Trade be improved at all or is trade in general being revamped in any way?
4. What does land based trade involve? Is it just as profitable as sea based trade?
Land and sea basd trade have little indicators know on land there are little lines of camels going from city to city same with sea trade you can see little trade ships plugging along between ports.
5: We've been told about the diplomacy system. Can you post a list of things which can be asked for of another faction as well as the list of things which can be given in return?
I've seen a screen of the diplomatic negotiation screen it had the offer/demand settlement option up but there were others further down. that were a bit blurry, lots of them but blurry.
1) There are two seasons. Are turns keyed to seasons, or will there be multiple turns per season?
Some person from CA said that the turns are based on seasons again 2 per year summer and winter.
Now that I have insulted everybody with my hubris my questions.
1.To load a full stack army into ships will you need a full stack navy?
2.Can you only build forts in specific places or can you plunk one down anywhere that strikes your fancy?
3.Has the mercenary system been changed at all?
4.How many surgeons, spies, priests can you have in a generals retinue?
5.How far can an army go in one turn?
d6veteran
09-17-2004, 20:08
Many thanks Gil! :bow:
One question I have based on the demo and linked in from previous TW titles...
Do we have an (Alt-click in MTW) function where we can order the whole army to move in formation without having to make a group of the whole army? (I mean the command to make all units move together in formation at the same speed)
It was a very useful command in MTW and I do hope it is in the full game.
Excellent question!
Oh and many thanks Gil.
Colovion
09-17-2004, 20:43
Land and sea basd trade have little indicators know on land there are little lines of camels going from city to city same with sea trade you can see little trade ships plugging along between ports.
Good to know - but my question was more on if Land Based Trade produces anything close to a sustainable economy - as in MTW you only traded with your immediate neighbors and in reality it was far from that kind of Land Trading and whole Empires have risen or fallen depending on the Trade from the East or just having trade going - and not only sea based. In MTW the total trade income was divided at roughly 90% Sea Based trade income to the 10% Land base trade income (if you were lucky).
Steppe Merc
09-17-2004, 21:22
Oh, about those killing, it's still really fast, even with me modding them with low valour and high armour, and no weapons upgrade. And the speed is still insane, even though my armies are far apart.
"- a few people grumbling at the .org every time we do something new is considered par for the course ;-)"
i love that line. even though it treats us like red headed step children, it's too true, too true. but that is what grognards do, they 'grumble.' but lets be honest, most of these grumblers are the backbones of the org. they're the ones spending countless hours making mods and guides and all the other add-ons to the game that the rest of us get to enjoy for free. on the other hand its kinda sad how even after 2 excellent games some of them are quick to have a pessimistic, negative view towards it all, not just the demo, but reviews, developers' chat, etc. the good thing is, the developers and the grumblers help to keep each other in check so that the silent majority of us can enjoy quality games [courtesy of the developers] with added improvements [courtesy of the grumblers]
Steppe Merc
09-17-2004, 22:10
It's not called pessimisim, it's called "being realistic". ~D
And I'd suppose you'd rather listen to those dingbats at the com? Who just flame people all day, and make idiotic posts?
And I'd suppose you'd rather listen to those dingbats at the com? Who just flame people all day, and make idiotic posts?
And there we have it again... The superiority-complex stomping all over...
Aymar de Bois Mauri
09-18-2004, 00:16
And there we have it again... The superiority-complex stomping all over...
Well, he has a point. In fact, more than just one... :wink:
Steppe Merc
09-18-2004, 00:54
Kraxis, have you ever actually tried and have a thoughtful disscussion there, attempting to point out constructive critisim? You try and point out historical information there, and they flip out on you!
I don't think that observation about .com is entirely unwarranted. I've been active in the community of different games and the official forums are always worse than fansite forums. Too many rude people and flaming. Not to say there aren't any decent people but the level of discussion in anything "official" is always worse.
It's probably due to the fact that fansites can be stricter in moderating.
Aymar de Bois Mauri
09-18-2004, 04:00
Our enemies are resourceful and innovative, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we. —George W. Bush, Washington D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
Your SIG is just beautifull, andrewt... :laugh4: :joker:
Just one more important answer & I'll be a happy chappie.
Please tell us that the camera controls/left click & drag/unit grouping etc will all be back to MTW standard for the full game :charge:
Bob the Insane
09-18-2004, 08:52
I have a question for the SP campaign game:
When you build buildings like palaces and barracks these building appear in your towns and citys on the game maps. How do the province improvements appear though? The mines and roads, etc? Additionally are the constuction of roads done on a per sqaure basis or are they built between defined locations??
Just one more important answer & I'll be a happy chappie.
Please tell us that the camera controls/left click & drag/unit grouping etc will all be back to MTW standard for the full game :charge:
You can already set the controls 'back' to MTW-style by using the options menu in the demo. Only a few things from the old MTW-control set are missing or solved differently, such asusing , and . instead of ALT-rc to set unit facing for example (I prefer the 'old' way, but I can certainly live with the 'new' mehod, and who knows perhaps once I've played RTW for some length of time I might even grow to like it better).
Silver Rusher
09-18-2004, 10:12
Will there ever be multiplayer campaigns for any total war game ever?
It'd be great if that was available in the ex pack. (with mods catered for of course! :laugh4: )
Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe
09-18-2004, 11:01
I'll answer the killing-speed one out of the kindness of my heart... and not in any way because it's getting so I can't look at a thread on this forum without seeing the usual suspects grumbling about it :-)
In the demo, the units are high-valour and small-sized and are deployed close to one another, and they make mincemeat of one another as a result. The choice of unit size was made to help the demo frame rate on low-spec machines. If you have larger units then the melees will last longer - aside from the numbers themselves, the unit frontage will be different. I think I've seen people posting to that effect after experiments with modding the demo.
Note: as for why you haven't had an answer to this question until now, several possibilities are on offer:
- everyone here was *extremely* busy
- everyone here knew there was no problem because of the above reasons
- a few people grumbling at the .org every time we do something new is considered par for the course ;-)
Let's get some more grumbling going...
Unless the math of the killing formula has changed, high valour units or low valour units, that does not make any kind of difference.
In the demo, all units are high valour, but in theory, at low valour they'll kill each other just as fast (attack and defense dropping by the same value). At low valour the battle ought to be even shorter with units breaking faster with low morale.
I'd like Gil to explain where I am wrong; just like Kraxis, I quite don't get it and that would give a lot of insight on killing formula and valour upgrade if this has changed ~:cool:
Large units would indeed make the fight longer.
How would that help MPers, I am not sure. Larger unit size is more demanding for PCs. so playing on large unit size in 4v4 MP game might be something only those playing on uber PC would be able to afford. Might be a solution, or maybe not.
In MTW MP, large units make a very noticable difference. I'd be glad to hear that it won't be the case in RTW.
It's going to be a PC performance vs gameplay issue.
And eventually, I still see no answer about unit speed and the funny running speed of infantry. Or the discripancy between the cavalry running speed and the turning speed. So the game might be just as fast.
Thank you; it's like a weight has been lifted from my tiny amphibian mind. On the basis of that I will move to the 'buying on day of UK release' crowd; some of my concerns have been eased, the rest I will leave to faith in CA. Speed was a major issue to me as I couldn't keep up even with pause.
Well, as far as I can tell froggy, you'll still need to pause. Running speed has not changed. That's the bulk of the game speed issue
/rumbling off
Thanks for the feedback,
Louis,
frogbeastegg
09-18-2004, 11:58
Well, as far as I can tell froggy, you'll still need to pause. Running speed has not changed. That's the bulk of the game speed issue
But if it's that little bit slower I will be able to keep with with pause, which is better than not keeping up at all. Useless for MP and frustrating, sure, but at least I can play. It leaves me in the same boat as STW and MTW.
Run speeds are part of the problem, but in the demo everyone was dying and routing so quickly. Even with pause it was overwhelming. If that is slowed down I should be able to scrape by.
Scraping by is by no means ideal, but it's better than having a £35 game which I can barely play in battle mode.
Finally when it comes to kill calculations etc I ignore them; I'm too dyslexic to understand them. I couldn't say whether the high valour, upgrades, small units etc will or will not alter the killing speed in the demo; all I can do is trust that Giljaysmith knows what he is talking about, or wait until someone posts 'Da Moronz Guide to Da Sp33dz!!1!1'
Kraxis, have you ever actually tried and have a thoughtful disscussion there, attempting to point out constructive critisim? You try and point out historical information there, and they flip out on you!
If really want to know... That is my home. I have here just below 3000 posts, and those that know they have to a great degree been spamfree. Ovwere there I am the only patron with more than 6000 posts... I am the moderator Tarrak. Again, those that know me know I have basically not posted spam at all.
I think the number tell a tale about how much I have discussed over there.
You say the people flip out when you point out something that is not the best. Well I can say that it is equally true that here people are more interested in complaining for the reason of complaining (and trust me it has been like that with every release), some people just feel better when complaining, being happy actually hurts them. So it is up to you... Is it true that both sides are fully polarized (commies are fanbois only and here everybody are complaining nags) or is it that those who disagree with those at the other side inflates the issue too much?
Steppe Merc
09-18-2004, 15:03
Hmm... I didn't realise you were Tarrak. I respected your inisight in the histoical issues when I still was over there. :bow:
So it is up to you... Is it true that both sides are fully polarized (commies are fanbois only and here everybody are complaining nags) or is it that those who disagree with those at the other side inflates the issue too much?
I supose that both sides do inflate the issues, though I often feel justified in my critism. But both sides' image hasn't been sprung up from no where. And I'd rather be viewd as a complaining nag than a fanboy... mainly because this nag is going to help work on changing my complaints.
KukriKhan
09-18-2004, 15:27
These questions are out of left-field, I know. Just thinking of previous problems encountered when TW games/expansions have been issued (making much extra "helping" work for staff and patrons here):
1) Have the CD serial numbers all been double-checked and prepared for activation?
2) Is GameSpy playing host to MultiPlayer again? Is there any advantage to game buyers purchasing GameSpy memberships vs their free products?
3) Are we getting hard-copy documentation, or will it all be on disc?
4) What have been the installation problems encountered by CA staff or testers? If there were any, how were they resolved?
5) Is R:TW '-ian -able' ?
EDIT: To make certain I'm clear: none of the above questions should be construed as critical of the devs or publishers (past or present). I'm just trying to anticipate what sort of problems will need to be worked here when R:TW is released
Many very good questions.
But also quite a few of them which will be answered anyway in a few days when the game comes out. I still think it is better to ask those things which can go beyond the current release.
Here is another one I would find interesting :
Cooperative multiplayer - i.e. 2 or more friends teaming up against the AI - is very popular with other strategy games. Has this been considered by CA, if not for this release, then perhaps for the expansion ?
Oh, and Gil, thanks a lot for your comments on this thread. It sure means a lot to us to know our posts don't fall on deaf ears (eyes rather ~;) ).
Magraev, I am glad that you were wrong!~;) The idea of speculating was to try to tease out an answer.
I'll get you for this... ~;)
My naturally pessimistic approach told me to expect no answers. For the record I'm glad i was wrong too.
Since the best questions have already been taken, I'll ask the surreal one:
Can Wardogs climb ladders during siege? ~:joker:
Kraellin
09-19-2004, 01:19
hey gil :)
K.
Only a few things from the old MTW-control set are missing or solved differently True, but those happen to be a few of the most important & most used parts of the control set.
I'm not sure about the unit sizes slowing things down. I've played a bunch of games (with Rodeo) where units had 0 valor, weapon and armor, and 120 men (which, afaik, is the "normal" unit size), but the fights still finished in less than 30 seconds. By the time you move your screen over to your flanking forces, part of one players line had already broken (I hadn't even started moving my flankers yet). The killing speeds are just insane, but it's easy enough to mod (luckily I don't play MP, although I was planning starting). Just double every units defense and you (hopefully) have fights that last a while.
So, who's collating these questions and deciding on the winners? 24 hours till answer time (if Roxy's feeling really kind, that is).
Encaitar
09-19-2004, 10:20
Well here's a collection of (IMHO) good questions that have been asked (listed in no particular order). Apologies to anyone who feels I have unduly overlooked their question(s). As I said, this is just MHO!
1. How is Multiplayer different in RTW from MTW? (e.g. new options/features/game types) Will you be able to host historical or custom battles for online play?
2. How will logistics be handed in RTW? Will it be like in MTW, where armies could get cut off and it wouldn't matter? Or will we be encouraged to maintain lines of supply?
3. Do ships have a limited troop capacity? Or can one ship transport an entire army?
4. Can you give some example of how moddable RTW will be? Will there be modding tools released (e.g. a campaign-map editor)?
5. With army movement on the campaign map, do different units have different 'movement points'? i.e. can an army with just cavalry in it move further in one turn than an army with just infantry, which can in turn move further than an army with artillery?
6. How is it determined whether you fight during the day or at night?
7. Will faction re-emergences still be in like they were in MTW (tied to loyalty of province etc) and will they re-emerge with good quality troops?
8. How has the Mercenary system changed from MTW?
9. Are there plans to release historical battles after the game hits the shelves? Like a monthly new map release akin to some RTS's, which release new maps to battle upon every few weeks or so?
and my personal favourite question:
10. Can Wardogs (or Incendiary Pigs for that matter!) climb ladders during siege? ~;p
Perhaps someone more officious than myself would like to cull that down to the requisite 5 questions. ~:)
Armchair Athlete
09-19-2004, 11:45
I like the suggestion that someone else posted before about having a mix of multiplayer and single player questions. I think it should be 2 multiplayer themed and 3 single player themed, as nearly everyone will play single player but not so many multiplayer (but multiplayer is stil a very important aspect). Maybe if one of the moderators can be decisive for us (pleeeaaaase!!) and post what they think the final 5 questions should be, taking into account all of the posts done so far. I like the questions Encaiter has posted above (using a mix of everyone elses) so maybe they can just cut down on that list. I am sure everyone will be happy with the moderators decision, and if what we want to know doesn't get asked we will find out in just over a weeks time anyway ~:)
Somebody Else
09-19-2004, 11:57
Perhaps if someone made a shortlist of say 15 or so questions, opened the floor to a vote - the five highest voted would be the questions put forward...
Of course, could a tad tricky with the current system of making a poll...
The_Emperor
09-19-2004, 12:01
I think a question about the interface and the old ALT Click command should be included.
I know many people other than me have been asking about this feature.
Kaiser of Arabia
09-19-2004, 16:18
What I want to know is...
... DO YOU HAVE TO UNLOCK FACTIONS! I WANT BRUTII FROM THE START!
Steppe Merc
09-19-2004, 16:19
I like the mercanary one, the movement speed on the campmap and the logistics one.
I’ll know how the game is in a few days. I want to know how design decisions are made at CA. Is there a single master planner who calls the shots or one guy for the tactical game and one for the strategy game? Does CA have brainstorming sessions about things such as how the trade will work on the strategy map or about what the units will look like?
Here’s why I ask. There are obviously people around CA who know their history because so much of the game reveals as much. But it is equally obvious when these persons are over ridden or out of the loop. When Egyptian forces look a thousand years out of place this can’t have been an accident because whoever knows about pila and lorica hamata also knows about Ptolemaic Egypt. I’m curious as to how these things come to pass. I suspect that with Greeks already looking Greek, someone with clout determined that Egyptians must look different and voila! we get Yule Brenner’s army from The Ten Commandments. I know it’s a game not a simulation but does friction ever occur or does dispassionate professionalism always prevail among the staff?
JeromeGrasdyke
09-19-2004, 18:07
I know it’s a game not a simulation but does friction ever occur or does dispassionate professionalism always prevail among the staff?
Pretty much everyone involved with design at CA knows a fair bit about the history of the periods we tackle, so it's not nearly as seggregated as you suggest. And the discussions range from dispassionate "hmm let's give that a try" to extremely passionate stomping-off-in-a-huff, with apologies tendered the following day - everyone has subjects that they care passionately about. It's a bit like a marriage ;) The main thing that makes it work is that everyone involved in the design process is willing to admit that they may have been wrong, and just about everyone is able to identify when an idea has 'worked'. It's a culture that takes time and energy to foster and maintain, but we never stop talking, and never stop tinkering in order to find something better.
Then amongst all of that we try to find a middle road between what's popular with the public as a whole (old-style Egyptian units), historical accuracy (Marius), what we can sell to the publisher (HUGE elephants! THOUSANDS of men! TREMENDOUS explosions!), and what can actually be done given the resources we have (three complete sets of destructable walls rather than one per culture). Lots of people have input into this, each with their unique perspective on things, and the secret really is in the blend, and not going crazy on any one aspect. It's not a simple process...
Soulflame
09-19-2004, 18:47
:) CA answers questions on their free day of the week. That's awesome.
I think making a poll now is kinda pointless. There is not enough time before Roxy will try to answer us to get sufficient votes for a nice poll I think.
I don't have an alternative however :( Maybe the mods have an idea or can just select 5? It should be done soon, before the offer is void.
Here's an idea to keep it simple: let the three folks with the highest number of total Org posts who are participating in this thread decide via private messaging and just post the questions.
That's simple, and no one will be able to specifically blame anyone when their specific questions are not asked
Just an idea. I haven't participated in the thread much but I've been following it.
Exactly when is the deadline? In GMT. let's say.
Well, SouthwaterPanda said we should discuss it on the weekend, then someone should post up a clearly-marked official list for them to look at on Monday morning. I had assumed one of the mods would take care of this, but it appears I may have been wrong?
Just in case anyone missed it, it's Monday morning.
Cruelsader
09-19-2004, 23:53
Just in case anyone missed it, it's Monday morning.
It is always morning somwehere on the globe ~;)
SouthwaterPanda
09-20-2004, 00:10
However, by Panda Mean Time (the time that matters to me :-) it's just gone midnight.
None of the questions I've seen so far look completely out of order except the one about how many hours we work... which I would file under "not really game-related". So if you'd care to figure out which of the suggestions are collectively the most interesting, I'll look again on Monday evening, i.e. in about nineteen hours' time, and point Roxy at it on Tuesday morning.
Armchair Athlete
09-20-2004, 01:37
OK if I were to choose 5 of the most commonly re-occuring ones these are the ones I would do
1. How is Multiplayer different in RTW from MTW? (e.g. new options/features/game types) Will you be able to host historical or custom battles for online play?
2. In the developer interview video on (gamespot? gamespy? one of those two) it was said that there was a total war style control system. Is this just for the camera or for units too, and are there any major differences compared to MTW? ******
3. With army movement on the campaign map, do different units have different 'movement points'? i.e. can an army with just cavalry in it move further in one turn than an army with just infantry, which can in turn move further than an army with artillery?
4. How has the Mercenary system changed from MTW?
5. Will faction re-emergences still be in like they were in MTW (tied to loyalty of province etc) and will they re-emerge with good quality troops?
****** - There have been lots of questions about controls for RTW, so rather than just ask one at the expense of others, I thought it would be better to combine them into one big question. If the total war style cotrol interface is exactly the same as MTW, then everyone will have nothing to worry about at all! I guess this is more a multiplayer question.
So what does everyone think about these? Obviously not everyones questions will be answered, and some will be left out but these ones will be quite interesting I think.
Colovion
09-20-2004, 01:58
OK if I were to choose 5 of the most commonly re-occuring ones these are the ones I would do
1. How is Multiplayer different in RTW from MTW? (e.g. new options/features/game types) Will you be able to host historical or custom battles for online play?
2. In the developer interview video on (gamespot? gamespy? one of those two) it was said that there was a total war style control system. Is this just for the camera or for units too, and are there any major differences compared to MTW? ******
3. With army movement on the campaign map, do different units have different 'movement points'? i.e. can an army with just cavalry in it move further in one turn than an army with just infantry, which can in turn move further than an army with artillery?
4. How has the Mercenary system changed from MTW?
5. Will faction re-emergences still be in like they were in MTW (tied to loyalty of province etc) and will they re-emerge with good quality troops?
****** - There have been lots of questions about controls for RTW, so rather than just ask one at the expense of others, I thought it would be better to combine them into one big question. If the total war style cotrol interface is exactly the same as MTW, then everyone will have nothing to worry about at all! I guess this is more a multiplayer question.
So what does everyone think about these? Obviously not everyones questions will be answered, and some will be left out but these ones will be quite interesting I think.
All those are good IMO except take out #5 and put in the stuff after the *****
Armchair Athlete
09-20-2004, 02:03
All those are good IMO except take out #5 and put in the stuff after the *****
actually what I meant by all the stars is that that stuff would be answered by question 2 (which has all the stars at the end of it). I apologise if I didn't make it clear.
Colovion
09-20-2004, 02:11
Ah.,
I'd like to take this time to say that if it's called the Total War Style Interface/Camera - then it should probably function exactly as teh previous Total War Inferface or Camera functioned. The Demo's camera system is rather flawed in execution as I can no longer easily navigate the battlefield with only the mouse as I was used to doing in MTW...
Armchair Athlete
09-20-2004, 02:14
To be honest I agree with you that if it is called total war style interface it should be exactly the same as MTW and thus we shouldn't need a question on it but there are so many people clamouring for this one to get answered I put it in. I guess they just want reassurance.
Colovion
09-20-2004, 02:29
To be honest I agree with you that if it is called total war style interface it should be exactly the same as MTW and thus we shouldn't need a question on it but there are so many people clamouring for this one to get answered I put it in. I guess they just want reassurance.
As do I. I have no problem with the RTS cam they have implimented, but I'd really like to start playing the game with that comofort that comes from knowing something inside and out and not having to learn everything from scratch again. I might like the RTS camera in time, but the MTW camera interface was so well done that I'd like to stick with that (and having the option to change between the two gives versatility). Some of you might be saying that it is all the same - but it's not. GO play the Demo and then go play MTW.
If the total war style cotrol interface is exactly the same as MTW, then everyone will have nothing to worry about at all! I guess this is more a multiplayer question. Again with the false conceit that only MP players are concerned with the controls ~:rolleyes: :furious3:
Colovion
09-20-2004, 08:53
Again with the false conceit that only MP players are concerned with the controls ~:rolleyes: :furious3:
true story
Armchair Athlete
09-20-2004, 09:52
Again with the false conceit that only MP players are concerned with the controls ~:rolleyes: :furious3:
In single player you can pause as often as you like and issue commands/re-align camera whatever. You have more time to adjust. Multiplayer you cannot use pause to gain time. That is why easy to use controls are of primary concern to multiplayers. If you only play single player, use pause smartly and STILL cannot get the hang of the controls then there is a problem with you.
No.
Easy to use controls are of primary concern to me specifically because I do play SP, use pause smartly and really like easy to use controls BECAUSE then I get to spend most of my time watching the cool battle :duel:
Armchair Athlete
09-20-2004, 10:36
Just because the controls are different does not mean they are difficult to use. They are different, and may take some adjustment. It is a common complaint that this game is aimed at 13 year old noobs. Well if a 13 year old noob can work the controls perfectly fine and you cannot, that doesn't say much for you now does it? Are you going to playing mostly MTW afterwards or RTW? If you are sticking with MTW, you don't need to worry about Rome's control system. If going with mostly Rome, then transitioning is not going to be a big deal because you will not go back to the previous much.
In single player you can pause as often as you like and issue commands/re-align camera whatever. You have more time to adjust. Multiplayer you cannot use pause to gain time. That is why easy to use controls are of primary concern to multiplayers. If you only play single player, use pause smartly and STILL cannot get the hang of the controls then there is a problem with you.
Yes, in SP we can pause all we like, but generally pausing is not fun when you have to do it all the time. Then the battles are not that fun anymore, they need to be more flowing to be fun. I only used pause to coordinate charges perfectly or safe the day. Never was I a pause-whore, and that it seems is about to chance if I want to have a chance. No fun...
So in MP I can't, but in SP I won't use pause.
the discussions range from dispassionate "hmm let's give that a try" to extremely passionate stomping-off-in-a-huff, with apologies tendered the following day - everyone has subjects that they care passionately about. It's a bit like a marriage ;)
Nothing great can be accomplished without passion.
Thanks for the back stage insight.
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