View Full Version : The Wheel of Time - Total War (for Rome)
Myrddraal
01-16-2005, 13:57
Problem with that is that the general never shoots, so you have to have his unit able to chanel to represent his chanelling.
Any help on the campaign map is good. When I upload the files on Monday, I will also post a little readme showing what I have done and what needs to be done.
Problem with that is that the general never shoots, so you have to have his unit able to chanel to represent his chanelling.
But that's good, if you use the asha'man as bodyguards? Like Mat, he nevers channel for example... But I still say maidens as Dragon bodyguards, channelers would be to powerful. If Mat will be general, and not advisor that is.
Any help on the campaign map is good. When I upload the files on Monday, I will also post a little readme showing what I have done and what needs to be done.
Ok.
Myrddraal
01-16-2005, 21:30
I think that Rands bodyguard, not everyone elses, should be ashaman. Rand must be able to chanel
Another point is that the Asha'man could be mounted. Having all of your generals as light infantry leaves them very vulnerable to being attacked by light/medium cav and will seriously slow them down when they need to be near the combat to boost morale. Asha'man are all trained with the sword and thus would be decent in combat but not well-armoured. I have made a general's cav unit that throws boulders and is OK in combat. I did have to reduce the numbers to six/unit and give them a low ammunition version of the onager's attack but they are both worth the price (2,000 denarii) and not too powerful because.
a) They are a quick missile unit and so do not die very often
b) But they run out of ammo quickly and thus do not kill too many enemies in each battle. Therefore I reduced the price for custom battles.
I just don't think that using light infantry as a bodyguard is going to keep the general alive for long enough. He can't avoid heavier enemy cavalry and is going to be killed very quickly or you are going to have to devote all of your units to guarding him.
If the Asha'man are dismounted then they could always have maidens of the spear as officers.
Black_Draen
01-16-2005, 22:43
As far as I know Rand used Asha'mans rarely as pure bodyguards (compared with the spearmaidens). But I agree that he has to be able to channel.
Myrddraal: Was you to upload the files tomorrow? Will be fun to see it :)
I'm also writing some stuff about the Shadow now, would you mind if I make some building suggestions too?
Another important thing; how are you going to fix the two eras and unmounted cavalry? Is that possible in RTW?
How are we going to include Rand in the campaign version? If he dies, it should be game over, but there is no such condition available... (or is there?)
CrownOfSwords
01-16-2005, 23:46
Corrections in the other roles, in my opinion:
Clan Chiefs Guard (Removed in the Rand Era)
Red Shields (Light Infantry) – this is ok… should give a law improvement too, since they are the aiel police.
Thunder Walkers (Medium Infantry) Switched place with the stone dogs. A stone dog never drawback, and I think it’s Ingtar who says their charge is almost impossible to stop.
Far Dareis Mai (Heavy Aiel - like scouts – Rand Era body guards) See my notes above. Should be heavy too give them the fierceness of aiel women touch :)
Stone Dogs (Heavy Infantry) Look at the thunder walkers
Water Seekers (Light Aiel - like scouts) Replace the Far Dares Mai.
True Bloods (Heavy Skirmishers) Switched with the archer thingys.
Brothers of the Eagle (Heavy Archers) I just think that eagle gives an impression of archers…
Night Spears (Maybe like Night Raiders with a frighten enemy option?) All aiel frightens the enemy, put you shouldn’t have it as a feature. Give them the hide everywhere option instead, and make their stats be like that of the Thunder walkers.
Black Eyes (Archers) Can’t see very good with black eyes can you?
Dawn Runners (Light Skirmishers) See above.
Knife Hands: Let the knife hands be the aiel assassins?
Most of the Orders we don’t know very much about I just looked at the name instead of just random class, which I assumed the prev. roles were. Sorry if was wrong:) Anyway, some of these changes are important for the mod to be as it’s described in the book, and with that mean the Stone Dogs.
And on the aiel otherwise… They should look almost the same, all if them. Should also be able to hide in long grass. Good stamina. What I fear is that they will be much overpowered, so you must like give them a high price.
Forces of the Dragon (These include the Aiel and Tairens (Mayne?) in the Rand era) (name change explanation above).
Asha'man (Mounted & Dismounted)
Wise Ones-(Rand era, never fought before dumai wells)
Legion of the Dragon (Heavy Crossbowmen with good swords fighting skills also) No sword skills, remember that they always draw back, avoiding hand-to-hand battle. Let the red hand be the normal foot unit.
Band of the Red Hand (Mounted & Dismounted) Pikes and cavalry
Thats at least have think it could be done.
Im the one who created most of the unit list you see there, I agree with Stone Dogs forgot about that, and I think it might have been Lan who said "Stopping a charge by Stone Dogs is like stopping an avalanche."
Rand doesnt really use Maidens as his bodyguards, I think they should be some sort of heavily armored cavalry unit, to represent the three cities (Illian, Tear and Cairhen).
None of the Aiel wear armor so by classing them by light/heavy infantry doesnt represent really what im talking about. Just an increase of attack and some defense armor points should be really low. Which proven by New Springs represents how to stop aiel which is showers of arrows, its Lan who said in New Spring that its easier to kill aiel with arrows.
No Legion of the Dragon is a heavy footunit with hand to hand fighting capabilities, taking that out is taking out part of the book. Band of the Red hand is pikes and cavalry and archers nothing about swordsmen in the book.
As for how I listed the units its by random mostly except for the few units we definately know how to place them such as water seekers, red shields, maidens and stone dogs.
Gah I have a crapload of pictures how to I post them?
Myrddraal
01-17-2005, 11:12
Do you have the pictures on computer? go to imageshack and upload them there
Imageshack (http://www.imageshack.us/)
Or, you can email them to me. I can check them out.
I really don't know what to do about Rand. He may die of old age before the campaign is over.....
Orb, you should use the 'one power' projetile I made for Aes Sedai. Download it from the website. I gave them more ammunition, and very long range, and its a fireball, not a boulder (like a flaming onager).
The Legion of the Dragon is primarily a fast firing crowsbow unit. They do try to avoid hand to hand ingagment in the books.
I will have uploaded the files within the hour.
Here were my ideas (from the world of the wheel) for Shadow buildings:
I think the buildings needed to build trollocs will be:
Trolloc Cloisters (Taken from the World of the Wheel, Yes Female trollocs do exist and are cloistered for the 'production' of trollocs )
Forge (maybe?)
Fletcher (for Archer Trollocs)
I think the buildings needed to build Myrddraal will be:
Trolloc Cloisters (Because Myrddraal are freak offspring of trollocs, which is why they are sometimes linked to them)
Weaponsmith (upgraded Forge?)
Any ideas?
I also wrote some descriptions for shadow units but I don't know what I've done with them.
Files will be up soon... ~:)
EDIT: Look at these quotes (http://www.wotmania.com/quotelist.asp)
tippa2kk
01-17-2005, 16:07
hey can you give the units rifles?
Myrddraal
01-17-2005, 17:18
WTF? Have you even read the books tippa2kk. This mod is based on books by Robert Jordan, we're not just making it up as we go along. Gunpowder doesn't exist (yet).
Black_Draen
01-17-2005, 17:39
Looked at the campaign-map, nice work :)
Here are my suggestions for the Shadow, I included your buildings in them. I haven't done any building descriptions yet.
The Shadow
Good melée infantry and strong anti-morale, but little fast and ranged support.
==UNITS==
(1) Trollock Band
[light infantry]
Good stamina, May charge without orders
During the war of power the Dark One's scientists tried to create new types of soldiers that could make up for the lack of troops in the armies of the Shadow. They combined genetical traits from several different animals to create "super-soldiers". The result was the Trollocks. Hard to kill and able to endure harsh conditions the Trollocks where feared enemies among the forces of Light.
Still these creations initially was a disappointment to the Shadow's generals, the Trollocks proved unable to follow orders or commands, unless driven by fear. With no tactics working they where often simply let loose on the enemy - killing and plundering all in their way like a terrible wave of death.
(2) Archer Band
[archers]
Good stamina, May charge without orders, Can use flaming arrows
During the war of power the Dark One's scientists tried to create new types of soldiers that could make up for the lack of troops in the armies of the Shadow. They combined genetical traits from several different animals to create "super-soldiers". The result was the Trollocks. Hard to kill and able to endure harsh conditions the Trollocks where feared enemies among the forces of Light.
Still these creations initially was a disappointment to the Shadow's generals, the Trollocks proved unable to follow orders or commands, unless driven by fear. With no tactics working they where often simply let loose on the enemy - killing and plundering all in their way like a terrible wave of death.
Nowadays most Trollock wields curved swords instead of the exotic weaponry of the War of Power. There are, however, some that use large and crude bows. I battle these are often grouped together in small formations to add support to the main army. The bows does not weaken their lust for battle and you may find that charging them into an enemy formation can be as effective as using their bows. Sometimes.
(3) Trollock Fist
[light infantry]
Good stamina, Good Morale
During the war of power the Dark One's scientists tried to create new types of soldiers that could make up for the lack of troops in the armies of the Shadow. They combined genetical traits from several different animals to create "super-soldiers". The result was the Trollocks. Hard to kill and able to endure harsh conditions the Trollocks where feared enemies among the forces of Light.
Still these creations initially was a disappointment to the Shadow's generals, the Trollocks proved unable to follow orders or commands, unless driven by fear. With no tactics working they where often simply let loose on the enemy - killing and plundering all in their way like a terrible wave of death.
It was first when the Myrddraals, throwbacks to the human genes of the Trollocks, came to existance that the Trollocks could start to function more as orginally intended. The Myrddraal used fear or a method of "linking" their minds to the Trollocks to drive their undisciplined soldiers into battle.
(4) Archer Fist
[archers]
Good Stamina, Good Morale, Can use flaming arrows
(the same descr. as Trollock Fist)
(5) Myrddraals
[heavy infantry]
Excellent morale, Well armoured, Good stamina, Frighten nearby enemies
Also known as Fades or Neverborn, the Myrddraals are in general used as leaders over the bulk of Trollocks that make up most of the Shadow's armies. There are, however, times when orders from a Chosen (or even the Dark One himself) cause Myrddraals to join up in small fighting groups to carry out their given mission.
This is rarely seen, as the numbers of these Neverborn is much limited to the creation of their posioned swords. Swords that require not only the attention and craftmanship of the Shadowforgers of Shayol Ghul but also one human sacrifice to each of them. All this makes the Myrddraals a rare weapon with great force - if used in the right place.
(1) Darkhounds
[heavy cavalry]
Fast moving, Powerful charge, Frighten nearby enemies, Excellent Stamina
There are many legends and mysteries surronding the Darkhounds, and in these times few know their existance at all. They are corrupted creatures that hunt their prey for the dark lord. Being strong andhard to kill they are feared by all who knows them - including "allied" darkfriends.
(1) Darkfriend Militia
[light infantry]
Can sap, Vulnerable to missiles, Poor Morale
Not all friends of the dark join voluntarely, many are drafted against their will in the cities captured by the Shadow. If not given to the Trollocks as food, these peasants, traders and merchants are grouped in Milita units to give their unwilling support to the dark armies. They work mainly as meatshields and are often quickly consumed in battle. Fighting without any true spirit or dedication to the task.
(2) Darkfriend Archers
[archers]
Can sap, Vulnerable to missiles, Can use flaming arrows, Poor Morale
The few archers to be seen in the Dark One's armies (except the few bows that Trollocks may carry with them) is made up by drafted "darkfriends" from captured villages and cities. Often consisting of any man or woman able to wield a bow they are seldom very effective, much because of their poor morale and fighting spirit.
(3) Darkfriend Riders
[light cavalry
Fast Moving, Can form wedge
Some of the more trusted darkfriends may be used to form smaller units of light cavalry to scout and commence flank attacks against enemy forces. Although more loyal then the normal "mob" the darkfriends still have far to go before their dedication can match even the weakest of Myrddraals.
==Buildings==
>>Trollock Cloisters
Level 1: Trollock Band
Level 2: Trollock Archers
Level 3: Trollock Fist
Level 4: Archer Fist
Level 5: Myrddraals
>>Oathbreaker's Circle
Level 1: Darkfriends Milita
Level 2: Darkfriends Archers
Level 3: Darkfriends Riders
>>Ritual Chamber (require level 3 (0r 5?) city)
Level 1: Darkhounds
>>Weaponsmith
(?)
>>Hanging Grounds
+10/15/20/30/40% Law
>>Breeding Pits
1/2/3/4/5% Population Growth
Fighting Arena
+1/2/3/4/5 Experience
=====================================
>Creatures of the Blight:
Should we really have them in the dark armies? As what I have understood from the books they attack both Trollocks and humans - making no difference. It seems unlikely that the dark generals - or even the Chosen themselves - would be abel to control these creatures. Maybe they could just be "bandits" running around and killing in the Blight?
>The Trollock Band is without a Myrddraal and the Fist with one.
>I also have an idea for how to make it more realistic with the villages - their are little humans living in the Blight. If we could have a building (that can't be razed or destroyed in any way) that is named "Trollock Population" in the Trollock villages and "Human Population" in others we could make the buildings you need to train drakfriends require a "Human population" and the ones you need to train Trollocks require "Trollock Population. Just a suggestion though.
Im the one who created most of the unit list you see there, I agree with Stone Dogs forgot about that, and I think it might have been Lan who said "Stopping a charge by Stone Dogs is like stopping an avalanche."
Hmm might have been him too.
Rand doesnt really use Maidens as his bodyguards, I think they should be some sort of heavily armored cavalry unit, to represent the three cities (Illian, Tear and Cairhen).
Doesn't use them as bodyguards? From the Cold Rock's attack, where they took the role as his guard unit they have guarded him all the time, except the month in Illian, too the place where he ran away. Thats a very long time I would say, certainly longer then any wetlanders have.
None of the Aiel wear armor so by classing them by light/heavy infantry doesnt represent really what im talking about. Just an increase of attack and some defense armor points should be really low. Which proven by New Springs represents how to stop aiel which is showers of arrows, its Lan who said in New Spring that its easier to kill aiel with arrows.
No Legion of the Dragon is a heavy footunit with hand to hand fighting capabilities, taking that out is taking out part of the book. Band of the Red hand is pikes and cavalry and archers nothing about swordsmen in the book.
As for how I listed the units its by random mostly except for the few units we definately know how to place them such as water seekers, red shields, maidens and stone dogs.
Mm armor points should be low on aiel, what I meant with heavy was that they would take the heavy role other armies would have had... High defence though.
The Legion has never engaged in hand-to-hand combat at any place in the books. The Seanchan officer did a comment about that, how they backed away when the seanchan tried to charge them... We know of more swordsmen among the Band then in the legion, even if I agree with you that they should be only pikes and cav, since we have the other roles in other units among the Forces.
Black_Draen
Remember the thakan dar (sp?) blacksmith, shouldn't it be the building that construct Myrddraals?
Hmm I reallt miss the edit thing that you often see on foruns... anyway, remembered some stuff....
Files will be up soon... ~:)
Ok, I would like to know ehat needs to be done about tha campaign map, I've played around today and created some kind of Iliian, if it's needed. I can do more, to.
EDIT: Look at these quotes (http://www.wotmania.com/quotelist.asp)
Hmmm I replaced some quotes in the game yesterday... is there any idea I continue, or is there someonelses doing it? I've have put in like 30 wot-quotes so far.
And don't be to hard on tippa2kk, there is a pretty big chance we will see guns in KoD...
Some unit descr. Use if you wan't to, I'm not satisfied my self, but anyway...:
White Lions
Formed in the time after the riots in Caemlyn by “lord Gaebril” the White Lions became the first elite army in the history of Andor not swearing to serve the Queen of Andor, but Andor it self. They take their order directly from Gaebril, and most of the people don’t consider them any better then bandits. Most of the soldiers fighting in the White Lion are mercenaries, and so is their captain Daved Hanlon. Hanlon has a long reputation as a mercenary, he is known as an ruffian, and it’s rumoured he don’t care who his sword kill, and that he actually takes pleasure in the deeds of murdering, raping and looting, something that the men under him seems to have picked up. Still, you shouldn’t make the mistake of not taking the White Lions as a serious threat, since they are more then capable soldiers, something they recently have proved in the advances they have done in their interference in the ongoing Cairhien civil war.
Miner Militia
From mining regions in the Mountains of Mist around the small city Baerlon the Andoran army gets the Miner Militia, which is exactly what it sounds as, armed miners. This is a quite formidable force with men hardened by years with hard work under ground, and they also have a reputation in Baerlon as troublemakers which indicate at their fighting capabilities. But of course there are drawbacks with these men, who have lived their whole life fighting with each other and drinking too much alcohol. For one, their morale is pretty bad, and for the other they aren’t doing very well if they come up against horses since they seems to prefer fighting with their fists. On the other hand, this gives them an advantage when facing other infantry units, and especially other types of militia and peasants.
Men of Caemlyn
The person who holds Caemlyn holds Andor, but to take hold of the great city you must face the inhabitants, the Men of Camelyn. Normally these men are peaceful, as long as you do not offend their loved Queen, or their city, but when their homes are in danger or their ruler call them, they turn into a capable force, armed with swords and with either skin or mail armour, which gives an good protection against the average weaponry. They might not be the best trained soldiers available, but they have a burning zeal for their Queen which compensate that lack of training. When the Queens Guard and the regular army isn’t enough the Queen rouse these men, and they always come to fight for their country, city and above all their Queen.
Especially tha last one is bad, in my opinion...
Myrddraal
01-17-2005, 20:26
Andreas, I didn't realise you wanted to be on the team, I though you were just a fan. Thats why you don't have access to the files.
Does this mean I make you an official member?
Myrddraal
01-17-2005, 20:35
Black_Draen, I like your buildings, but I had already worked out some shadow units for the mod for medieval. Here they are:
Myraddraal
Unit size: 20
Weapons: Swords
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Cause fear in all human units
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Disciplined
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Can dismount before battle
Dha'vol Trollocs
Unit size: 133
Weapons: Axes
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Bonus against armored troops
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Vulnerable to projectiles
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Poor moral
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif May charge without orders
Dhai'mon Trollocs
Unit size: 133
Weapons: Swords
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Vulnerable to projectiles
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Poor moral
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif May charge without orders
Ko'bal Trollocs
Unit size: 133
Weapons: Spears/Bucklers
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Bonus against cavalry
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Poor moral
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif May charge without orders
Ahf'frait Trollocs
Unit size: 50
Weapons: Short bows/Swords
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Vulnerable to projectiles
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Poor moral
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif May charge without orders
Kno'mon Trollocs
Unit size: 133
Weapons: Javelins
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Bonus against armored troops
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Vulnerable to projectiles
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Poor moral
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif May charge without orders
Darkhounds
Unit size: 20
Weapons: n/a
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Bonus against armored troops
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Vulnerable to projectiles
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Bonus against mounted troops
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Cause fear in horses
Creatures of the Blight
Unit size: 20
Weapons: n/a
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Vulnerable to projectiles
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif May charge without orders
Darkfriends
Unit size: 133
Weapons: Swords
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Weak attack
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Very weak defence
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Poor moral
Darkfriend Archers
Unit size: 80
Weapons: Bow/Swords
Notes:
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Weak attack
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Very weak defence
http://www.eigenspace.net/wot/yinyang1.gif Poor moral
Myrddraal
01-17-2005, 20:38
And here are the descriptions for them:
Myraddraal
Myraddraal were first accidentally produced during the War of power and were a spin off of Trollocs. Myraddraal are much more human than their Trolloc brothers, seemingly a tall pale skinned man, the main difference is that only pale skin covers where their eyes should be and they wear night black cloaks which even the strongest wind will not touch. Somehow though Myraddraal can still see and their stare will incite fear even in the bravest of men, hence the saying in the borderlands "The gaze of the Eyeless is fear". Trollocs fear the sheer cruelty the Myraddraal are capable of and so Fades make perfect leaders for shadowspawn armies. Myraddraal are known to be able to disappear into shadows and appear in a shadow miles away. Myraddraal are very hard to kill. Even headless they only truly die at sunset. They wield blades forged on the slopes of Shayul Ghul and which have been seasoned with a human soul. These blades are not only black but seem to absorb light and one nick of these blades will kill if not soon healed by an Aes Sedai.
Unit size: 20
Weapons: Swords
Notes: - Cause fear in all human units.
- Disciplined
- Can dismount before battle
Dha'vol Trollocs
Trollocs were created during The War of Power by the forsaken Aginor. They are a genetic cross between humans and various animals in an attempt to create the ultimate warrior. The result was Trollocs who although having much greater than human strength and are bloodthirsty and well adapted to killing, they have no discipline or courage. They are lazy cowards at heart and will only attack if they are certain of victory or more afraid of their commander than of the enemy. Trollocs are the only Shadowspawn known to have formed a society based on a tribal structure. These clans gain reputations which are often based on truth. Dha'vol Trollocs live in the very shadow of Shayol Gul itself, in Thakan’dar and the black valleys and gorges around it. They are the fiercest of all Trollocs, often used to spearhead the attack. They are unflinching in their devotion to their Dark master. They are renowned for their strength and prefer weapons like clubs and axes though they lack the speed of other Trolloc tribes. Their reputation is fearsome, and they are the Trollocs that the Borderlanders fear the most.
Unit size: 133
Weapons: Axes
Notes: - Hard to kill
- Bonus against armored troops
- Vulnerable to projectiles
- Poor moral
- Charge without orders
Dhai'mon Trollocs
(Same as Dha'vol until *) Dhai'mon Trollocs are known to be even more cowardly than most and tend to gather into larger groups. They are also good runners, supposedly from the many times they have fled the field. Despite these rumors these Trollocs are still very good fighters and are well known for their ability to scavenge, both for food and equipment.
Unit size: 133
Weapons: Swords
Notes: - Fast
- Venerable to
projectiles
- Very Poor moral
- Charge without
orders
Ko'bal Trollocs
(Same as Dha'vol until *)
Ko'bal Trollocs often show a preference for stabbing weapons such as spears, tridents and hooks. These weapons cannot slash or block enemy blows easily so these Trollocs also fight protected by various bucklers and shields. Because of this they are not as vulnerable to projectiles as other Trollocs, and are solid in defence and reliable in attack, thanks to their discipline, which is rigid (for Trollocs). Ko'bal Trollocs tend to defend well against mounted units, because of their superior discipline and effective weaponry.
Unit size: 133
Weapons: Spears / Bucklers
Notes: - Bonus against
mounted troops.
- Poor moral
- Charge without
orders
Ahf'frait Trollocs
(Same as Dha'vol until *)
Ahf'frait Trollocs live in the fetid marshes north of the ancient kingdom of Malkier. Over the centuries, these Trollocs have developed an aptitude for archery, using short bows and wicked barbed arrows to hunt their prey in the swamps. For this reason the Ahf'frait are the only Trollocs who fight at range. Despite their skill they are still far inferior to human archers, and their bows are poor replicas of the finely tuned weapons of Men.
Unit size: 50
Weapons: Swords / Short
bows
Notes - Venerable to
projectiles
- Poor moral
- Charge without
orders
Kno'mon Trollocs
(Same as Dha'vol until *)
The Kno'mon live in the far north, north even of Shayol Gul, where the land is shrouded in deadly ice, and winds that can strip a man to the bone in minutes whip across the plains. Here only the toughest survive and those who remain are the strongest, the fastest and the most vicious. Like the Ko'bal Tribe Kno'mon Trollocs favor spears, but instead of the long pikes and bills of the Ko’bal they carry several short heavy spears which they use to throw at the enemy as well as stab. These throwing spears are short ranged but heavy enough to be deadly even to heavily armored troops, as the Borderlanders have known for a very long time. The Kno'mon often migrate south to raid and pillage the Borderlands, and are never slow to answer their master’s call when the tribes march forth from Tarwin’s Gap. However, they always return to their icy holds in the frozen north, often laden with plunder from defeated human armies
Unit size: 133
Weapons: Javelins
Notes: - Bonus against
armored troops
- Vulnerable to
projectiles
- Charge without
orders.
Unit list: The Shadow (2)
Darkhounds
In the lands far from the blight the Wild Hunt is a story told to frighten children in which the Dark One is the huntsman who sends his hounds to catch children who have been bad. Yet darkhounds do exist and even though the Dark One does not ride behind them they are terrible enemies to face. A pack can run down most horses over time as they are relentless and seem never to tire. Their saliva is corrosive and will etch metal if the metal is not first broken by their jaws, and one drop on the skin can kill. Because of this armor has little effect. They leave no trace in the wettest mud but their footprints can be seen in any stone they crossed. In most cases it is easier to detect their passing by the sulphurous smell they leave in their wake.
Unit size: 20
Weapons: N/A
Notes: - Bonus against
armored troops
- Vulnerable to
projectiles
- Bonus against
mounted troops
Creatures of the Blight
The Blight is the name that men give to the lands in the far north, which lie under the Shadow of the Dark Lord’s hand. It is twisted, corrupted by the Dark Ones touch. Here trees rot as they grow and sometimes move to ensnare other creatures and feed on them. Amongst this desolate wasteland creatures live, corrupted as much if not more than their surroundings. These twisted and horrible monsters do not serve any general but they are beings of the Dark One and at times they will fight against those he directs them at. They are uncontrollable at best and there are very few available for war, but they are dangerous fighters and are often capable of tearing a man limb from limb, possessed as they are with terrible strength and a relentless hatred of humanity.
Unit size: 20
Weapons: N/A
Notes: - Vulnerable to
projectiles
- May charge without
orders
Darkfriends
Often the rewards promised by the shadow to humans are attractive. Power, riches and even simply to be on what they believe will be the winning side after the last battle are amongst what Shai’tan offers to his faithful followers. But Darkfriends take oaths, and despite the saying "No man can walk so long in the shadow that he cannot turn back to the light", these oaths are seldom broken. Many darkfriends do not truly understand how serious the vows are, and most of them envisioned the power they were promised rather than the appalling conditions in which they have to live and fight in often used to fill Trolloc cook pots or expended as cannon fodder. However most darkfriends never fight for their master, merely performing small tasks such as spying, informing and on occasions as assassinating for the shadow whilst masquerading as honest citizens.
Unit size: 133
Weapons: Swords
Notes: - Weak attack
- Very weak defense
Darkfriend Archers
(Same as darkfriends up to *)
Darkfriends with any skill at archery are grouped and equipped as they are the only effective projectile weapon available to the shadow.
(Same as darkfriends after *)
Unit size: 80
Weapons: Bows / Swords
Notes: - Weak attack
- Very weak defense
Andreas, I didn't realise you wanted to be on the team, I though you were just a fan. Thats why you don't have access to the files.
Does this mean I make you an official member?
Yeah, you can do that. I can map tha campain map, fix the quotes and probably musch other changes in the textfiles, if I only look into it. I can do 2D art to but it seems there are enough persons doing this already.
But shall I continue with the quotes? I have my own collection, plus the wotmania collection to go from so it's many quotes, and I will not add them if I don't have to ~:)
About the trollocs... Shouldn't you take the three largeest tribes (those that are capter icons, can't remeber their names it's not har to fin out) and let the units be the same for every one?
Myrddraal
01-18-2005, 15:02
Andreas, you wont need to make a campaign map from scratch, I'm already working on one, you will see in the readme for the files what has to be done.
As for quotes, no one else is doing them, so you might as well.
Just one point Andreas, I get the impression that you take membership for granted, you seemed to assume that you were already a member without anyone admitting you. I don't want to refuse you, but we have to work as a team. I will give you access to the files.
I don't get what you mean about the trollocs. We've already decided which will be the three main trolloc clans. Maybe only those tribes should have those units, but I think giving different trolloc units names from the other tribes is a good idea.
Black_Draen
01-18-2005, 17:42
-Myrddraal: The descriptions looks nice but I can't agree with you when it comes to what units should be in the mod.
The first thing I reacted to when I saw your suggestions was that there is nothing that enable the use of level-buildings. Building them all at once is quite boring, and its also boring if upgrading your Trollock Cloister does not give you more advanced units.
It would also look a bit weird with the Fists having the same names as the clans. Wouldn't it be better to have either the fists or the fractions having the names? Have you found what the clans do "for a living" in a book or have you created the background yourself?
Maybe there it could be possible to build 2-3 types of Trollocks at every level, and then increasing to better types of Fists as in my suggestion?
The same is for the Darkfriends, only archers and close-combat troops is not very well adapted for a level-system. You would need 3-5 different darkfriend units (maybe what I suggested + Darkfriend Fanatics, Dreadlords?).
Another thing that has nothing to do with the units, what do you say about fixing the fractions and units at the same time as the campaign-map? We can always do it without special-graphic and then add graphic when its done. Not sure if you haven't started on it already though.
The custom-battles is after all the multiplayer-part and it would be nice if we had some stuff ready, both for testing and balancing but also simply because it would be great fun to try out smaller battles between mod-members.
If you show me what files it is that contain the data I can give it a try.
-TheDevil: I have no idea about how to make Shayol Ghul and the three Trollock-clans (correct me if I'm wrong but there isn't any pictures or descrp. on their symbols, or?). If you feel you have any insipration feel free to do them :)
(btw; what do you say about my "Trollock Population" suggestion?)
Andreas, you wont need to make a campaign map from scratch, I'm already working on one, you will see in the readme for the files what has to be done.
As for quotes, no one else is doing them, so you might as well.
I stated with the quotes today, went pretty smooth except one thing, check here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=42403
I will look into the camp. map some day to come, tomorrow pr saturday most likely.
Just one point Andreas, I get the impression that you take membership for granted, you seemed to assume that you were already a member without anyone admitting you. I don't want to refuse you, but we have to work as a team. I will give you access to the files.
Mm I understand it might have appeared as that now, but I didn't really. When I found this mod I actually didn't know anything about modding Rome, and just thouht "hey, cool an wot mod"... But then I looked into the modding and realized it wasn't to hard, so I thought I just might help you a little. I hadn't really thougt about membership before you asked, just to some smaller things to help you. Now I will do more, if you want, of course. And thanks.
I don't get what you mean about the trollocs. We've already decided which will be the three main trolloc clans. Maybe only those tribes should have those units, but I think giving different trolloc units names from the other tribes is a good idea.
I mean that if you use the same tribe-fists it will be weird, since I do not think the major tribes would accept the smaller to work with others. Personalize them instead by naming them after the faction tribe, and let them have the same stats. Keep your original setup for the NaesBlis, to represent that many tribes work for him... thats my sugestion at least.
Black_Draen: Shayol Ghul should really just be black in my opinion, since that was the banner used during the trolloc wars. For the others, there are a chapter iconset with three tribesymbols, I'm trying to find them, but it seems they are gone from wotmania...
I finally managed to create some units when I had an idea for the Two Rivers Militia. I reckon that they should be archers with a spear attack instead of two seperate units of spears and longbows.
I created a unit of them to test and it worked pretty well. I made them the best archers in the game with enough melee skills to beat militia and the weakest of the first combat units but they would lose against hastati units and anything better.
This means that whilst they will be used as archers whenever optional, they can double as emergency combat troops but take many losses. Their archery skills would be balanced out by the amount of time it takes to train and the fact that they can only be trained in one province. This means that Andor will not use them further from home very often because they can't train them in short amounts of time. They would be devastating in early game but as Andor expands these are likely to appear less often in armies sent abroad just because it would take them a while to get there.
The reason I think that they should be one unit only is that they would only really be used by Andor as longbowmen. The spearmen are really just normal militia with good morale.
They should be trainable only in the Two Rivers (stating the obvious) and also take a long time to train.
If you want I can post the stats.
Black_Draen
01-18-2005, 22:34
ok, a black banner then :-)
If you find the other banners just send them to me and I'll fix them, at the moment I have much job with the current ones.
(btw; is it only me or are we quite many from Sweden in this mod?) ~:)
CrownOfSwords
01-18-2005, 23:29
This is for both the dev members and people who don't really know what WOT is, ive collected many drawings from all over the internet that I like of the book and its units and such. I will give brief descriptions with each pictures, many of the pictures are simply from the card game ignore the cards the drawing is what matters :bow: I spent hours preparing this post and many more hours searching out the internet.. so enjoy please :charge:
(Edit) Sorry for such a long post, but its fun to look at and read, and if you havent read the books I may have you hooked by the end of it :P. Sorry for any spelling errors was in a rush to finally finish it.
Aiel - People of the Dragon. They live in the desert called the waste beyond the dragonwall where the weak and cowardly die. They do not wear armor, or use swords but are deadly with their spears, bows, heavy knives and able to kill men with their barehands (pratice forms of martial arts). They wear no armor but carry a small buckler, dressed in garment to conceal them in the terrain often dirt colored cloaks. They will not kill before their viel themselves, therefore in the game will always be represented with a viel over their face. Some of the most powerful armies in the world, in the Aiel war it took a combined force of every nation to fight them, but they do battle among themselves more than among the wetlander nations.
http://img66.exs.cx/img66/1887/aiel72ou.jpg
http://img109.exs.cx/img109/6881/aiel9dc.jpg
[IMG]http://img110.exs.cx/img110/6746/aiel56hn.jpg
http://img128.exs.cx/img128/1255/aiel69qc.jpg
http://img50.exs.cx/img50/1746/aiel81ed.jpg
http://img40.exs.cx/img40/6177/aiel90sl.jpg
http://img37.exs.cx/img37/6453/aielandfootman7ux.jpg
Amadicia
These troopers serve the king of Amadicia, but really are no more than a puppets to the children of the light who are the real controllers of Amadicia.
http://img34.exs.cx/img34/5429/amadiciansoldier2ei.jpg
Andor
Proud men of the crown city of Caemlyn, they serve their queen with complete dedication. Overlords of Two rivers and the lands to the mountains of the mist, strong ties with Tar Valon, every daugther-hier is sent to be trained in Aes Sedai ways, and the sons to be trained with the best swordsmen of the world, Warders.
http://img14.exs.cx/img14/4525/andorfootmen8nh.jpg
http://img7.exs.cx/img7/3647/andorinfantry0dh.jpg
Queens Guard
http://img158.exs.cx/img158/6739/andorqueensguard9yj.jpg
White Lions (Rand era only mostly Darkfiends)
http://img61.exs.cx/img61/8246/andorwhitelions5nb.jpg
Asha'man - Means Guardians in the old tongue, serve the Dragon Reborn. Fight with the one power. Nations tremble at the feet of these men.
http://img59.exs.cx/img59/8398/ashaman0nv.jpg
http://img69.exs.cx/img69/9028/ashaman25js.jpg
The Band of the Red Hand - Serve the Dragon Reborn under his friend Mat Cauthon. Made up of men from many nations, live by the luck of Mat Cauthon.
http://img114.exs.cx/img114/6339/bandoftheredhand9yp.jpg
http://img123.exs.cx/img123/8552/bandoftheredhand24cw.jpg
Cairhen
These men supposedly guard the dragonwall to keep the Aiel in the waste, but the last time they crossed it took every nation united to throw them back, but do not be mistaken Cairhen has good soldiers as good as any of the southland nations.
http://img105.exs.cx/img105/7155/cairhienelite5ev.jpg
http://img48.exs.cx/img48/9981/cairhienfoot2qf.jpg
http://img50.exs.cx/img50/1463/cairhienfoot26bx.jpg
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/2272/cairhienguard2yb.jpg
Children of the Light (Amadicia)- These men hold the true power behind Amadicia. Behind their crusade against the Dark One they search out Darkfiends in every land. They are a true proffesional force proven by the Troubles (The Whitecloak war).
http://img45.exs.cx/img45/4997/childrenofthelight5ut.jpg
http://img32.exs.cx/img32/6858/childrenofthelight20jl.jpg
http://img36.exs.cx/img36/7573/childrenofthelight39cp.jpg
http://img13.exs.cx/img13/3129/childrenofthelight48mm.jpg
Rand al'Thor, the Dragon Reborn is just as feared as supported. Three thousand years before he was born and defeated the Dark One banishing him back into his prison. Now as the Champion of the Light he is born again, he wages his war against the Dark One and intends to have a united army to fight the Dark Ones horde. He commands the Asha'man and some Aes Sedai, kings and queens tremble at his very name.
Rand and his army:
http://img7.exs.cx/img7/6669/crownofswords7zd.jpg
Legion of the Dragon(heavy crossbowmen)
http://img7.exs.cx/img7/3340/legionofthedragon4wp.jpg
Im not really sure who these soldiers are, I need to reread the part of Far Madding I am assuming these are the guards of Far Madding. Cool drawing though:
http://img27.exs.cx/img27/6546/footmen34sr.jpg
Illian:
The city itself of Illian has never had a need for walls surrounded by a vast swamp and the ocean. Illian is ruled by a king and the council of nine. Guarding both are the Companions true elite royal guards. This is not a weak nation, guarded by its fleet and people it has long been a rival of Tear.
The Companions:
http://img107.exs.cx/img107/8080/illiancompanions6tx.jpg
Illian soldiers:
http://img50.exs.cx/img50/4390/illianfootman21ko.jpg
http://img42.exs.cx/img42/589/illianfootmen9tj.jpg
Kandor:
One of the four nations that guards the blight. The people of Kandor know war, and have defended the blight against the Trolloc horde since the Breaking.
Kandor soldier:
http://img39.exs.cx/img39/5528/kandorifootman0ob.jpg
Saldea:
Another of the four nations that guards the blight, these men are superb horsemen, and have a trace of descent (asian-like) descent.
http://img154.exs.cx/img154/5789/saldeanfootman3rs.jpg
Seachan:
When Artur Hawking conquered the world, he sent armies across the oceans to conquer the lands beyond. After Artur Hawking's Empire crumbled it was divided and changed into many of the nations now standing. Seachan the descendants of Artur Hawking, the people across the sea have returned to reclaim what was their's. Very adept warriors have trained for 'The Return' for many years, wear Samurai-like armor and command beasts they come to reconquer the world and challenge the Dragon Reborn.
http://img52.exs.cx/img52/1926/seachan3qq.jpg
Seachan beast rider fighting Tairen horseman:
http://img59.exs.cx/img59/1710/seachanvstearhorseman3sf.jpg
Shienar:
Shienar was not always on the Blight, but they have always aided in its defense. When Malkier was overrun Shienar was put against the Blight, and has defended it ever since. True warriors known for having the best heavy cavalry in the world. These men of fight with two handed swords, well equipped and well armored. Their skills have been well honed over the years fighting Trollocs, these men know no fear and fight for the honor and defense of Shienar.
http://img108.exs.cx/img108/5451/shieniarianfootman6db.jpg
Tar Valon:
Home of the Aes Sedai, nations heed the call of Tar Valon the home of the white tower. Aes Sedai have pulled the strings of the nations for thousands of years. No ruler would refuse a summons by the Amyrlin seat, but Aes Sedai do not do battle except against the Dark One. The nation is guarded the Guards of Tar Valon, and the Warders. Well trained and well equipped soldiers.
http://img116.exs.cx/img116/4175/tarvalonguard1bl.jpg
http://img120.exs.cx/img120/4140/tarvalonhorseman4mr.jpg
Tarabon: Guarding the crown city of Tanchico, Tarabon men have known war often fighting Arad Doman, and lending aid in the Aiel war.
http://img121.exs.cx/img121/4999/taraboninfantry1qf.jpg
Tear:
Tear is the home of the greatest fortress in the World. Known simply as the Stone, no army has every conquered the Stone everyone broken like water against the huge defenses. The men who guard the Stone are the Defenders of the Stone, who serve the Tairen High Lords. Tear is not ruled by a king, but many high lords. Hated rivals of Illian, these men know war from the many battles against Illian and the Aiel war. Defenders of the Stone guard the Stone, but in the field in wars they are the True elite of any army, well equipped and well trained.
Defenders of the Stone:
http://img10.exs.cx/img10/7752/defenderofthestone0ml.jpg
http://img136.exs.cx/img136/5605/teardefenderofthestone22ww.jpg
http://img54.exs.cx/img54/4338/teardefendersofthestone5tq.jpg
Tairen Pikemen
http://img108.exs.cx/img108/7466/tearspearmen4ly.jpg
The Army of the Dark servants of Shai'tan:
Shai'tan lives is trapped in his prison, put there by the creator, nearly escaping and putting the world under the shadow during the War of Power. Lews Therin Telamon defeated him and banished him back to his prison putting unbreakable seals on his prison. Yet the seals fail, and the Dark One will be soon free. The Dragon Reborn must stand against him or the world will fall under the shadow. His main servants are the Forsaken, men and women who can channel who serve the Dark One even in death. Fades and Trollocs were created to wreak havoc on the earth. The Dark One comes again can the armies of men stand against him?
The Forsaken:
http://img114.exs.cx/img114/6651/forsaken5wy.jpg
Fades (The eyeless)
http://img68.exs.cx/img68/629/fade8tv.jpg
http://img69.exs.cx/img69/6434/fade31df.jpg
http://img30.exs.cx/img30/7262/fade25ul.jpg
Trollocs
http://img117.exs.cx/img117/2193/trollocs27sf.jpg
http://img123.exs.cx/img123/6444/trollocs37ys.jpg
http://img124.exs.cx/img124/8887/trollocs57eo.jpg
http://img126.exs.cx/img126/4340/trollocs75tp.jpg
I hope this gives the fans something to look at ~:cheers:
RedSilver
01-19-2005, 02:07
I'm going to be seachan and Shienar they're rather cool :D
well.....REALLY DAMN COOL ! is more like it...
great information btw, I did plan on reading the books, now I really can't wait for the mod and as such shall read the books.
there are 9 atm aren't there?
or is he writing the 9th?
CrownOfSwords
01-19-2005, 02:14
Im glad someone appreciates my post! :charge:
I'm going to be seachan and Shienar they're rather cool :D
well.....REALLY DAMN COOL ! is more like it...
great information btw, I did plan on reading the books, now I really can't wait for the mod and as such shall read the books.
there are 9 atm aren't there?
or is he writing the 9th?
There are 10 (and a prequel). He is writing the 11th book called "Knife of Dreams" (publishing date is late 2005, I think). There will also be 2 more prequels, and 3 more WoT books (totalling 13 WoT main books, and 3 prequels)
Sephriel
01-19-2005, 14:45
hi,
@myrddraal: i finally re-set up the computer(after rtw did not work no matter what i tried to do.... )
are having still this prob with the camp files?
ps: if someone needs help at www.radderzeit.de , just ask me to translateit - im swiss ^^
Myrddraal
01-19-2005, 15:29
Great post CrownOfSwords, I especially like the second fade one. Thats exactly how I imagined them.
Because this mod is picking up speed, and popular enough to get 1400 hits on the website, I splashed out £9.99 to get a proper address for it:
Visit: www.wot-tw.co.uk (http://www.wot-tw.co.uk/)
It needs updating, I will do that in the next few days.
Have you seen this:
Objects on the campaign map (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=42405)
I think it would be good to spice up the map with some stuff like this.
@Sephriel, the map is now working, download it in the developers area. Which, by the way, will soon change address:
New dev area will soon be at:
www.wot-tw.co.uk/dev
If anyone wants an email like CrownOfSwords@wot-tw.co.uk, just tell me.
Black_Draen
01-19-2005, 17:19
Really nice pictures Crown, how many of them can we use? I'm thinking on the authors permission and alike. Could be nice with some of them as background to the loading-screen.
Nice to hear about the website Myrddraal :)
ok, a black banner then :-)
If you find the other banners just send them to me and I'll fix them, at the moment I have much job with the current ones.
(btw; is it only me or are we quite many from Sweden in this mod?) ~:)
I haven't found them, but I might be able to use my scanner, and in that way get them. I might even be able to do it myself, if I can gather enough time... right now I'm mentally exausted after the worst test I've ever experienced... Might try it this evening, as I said before... An I also thougth about the swedish thing, but it seam sweden is a very wotish country, we are four on the wSE-point list at wotmania, before countries like canada and UK...
Myrddraal: Nice with a proper URL. Did you see my post about the trolloc tribes on the last page btw, why they shouldn't be named that same for all trolloc factions?
Sorry for the double, but CrownofSwords... Tha large drawing you thougth was Far Madding is Cachin, from NS, Lan and Bukkama(sp?) when the young soldier calls Lan Dai'Shan... As I said, sorry for the double, but i thougth I had to comment it and my current connection was to slow for me to see all the pictures before my prev post..
CrownOfSwords
01-19-2005, 20:32
Thats great! There we go a concept for Kandor infantry, much better than the New Spring drawing I posted maybe ill do some work with it in paint and see what I can come up with. Myd maybe I can edit up that page make a good final copy then you should post it on the front page under what the mod is about, good page to give newcomers what we are all about ~:cheers:
Myrddraal
01-20-2005, 10:02
Sure, Andreas, I agree about the trolloc tribes. Those names are from the Medieval mod.
Will do that CoS. At the moment I'm just trying to get the site up to date.
Currently working on the climates. Will upload them soon.
Black_Draen
01-20-2005, 14:11
Modified suggestion for buildings & units, the different types of Trollock and darkfriend units is there to make it worth upgrading - and it's always fun gaining access to new units. What do you think of it?
* = Clan Trollocks; Dhai'von, Ahf'frait and Kno'mon
The Band is not led by a Myrddraal
The Fist is led by one
The Armoured is elite trollocks under a Myrddraal.
==Buildings==
>>Clan Hold
>>Trollock Cloisters
Level 1: *Clan Band
Level 2: + Ko'bal Band, Dhai'mon Band
Level 3: + *Clan Fist
Level 4: + Ko'bal Fist, Dhai'mon Fist
Level 5: + Armoured *Clan (better name?)
>>Oathbreaker's Circle
Level 1: Darkfriends Milita
Level 2: + Darkfriends Archers
Level 3: + Darkfriends Riders
Level 4: + (some type of pure fanatics?)
Level 5: + Dreadlords
>>Weaponsmith
+ 1/2/3/4/5 Light weapons
+ 0/0/1/2/3 Ranged Weapons
(not sure about the numbers)
>>Shadowforger (require level 3 city)
Level 1: Myrddraals
>>Ritual Chamber (require level 4 city)
Level 1: Creatures of the Blight
Level 2: Darkhounds
>>Hanging Grounds
+10/15/20/30/40% Law
>>Breeding Pits
+ 1/2/3/4/5% Population Growth
Fighting Arena
+1/2/3/4/5 Experience
Myrddraal
01-20-2005, 14:16
Only one thing, the Trolloc Clans are Dha'vol, Ahf'frait and Kno'mon.
I was thinking that Ahf'frait would own the western blight, and so have to fight Saldea and Kandor.
Kno'mon would hold central Blight and so fight Kandor, Arafel, and Malkier.
And Dha'vol would hold eastern blight and have to fight Malkier, Arafel, Shienar, and the Aiel.
I finally managed to create some units when I had an idea for the Two Rivers Militia. I reckon that they should be archers with a spear attack instead of two seperate units of spears and longbows.
I created a unit of them to test and it worked pretty well. I made them the best archers in the game with enough melee skills to beat militia and the weakest of the first combat units but they would lose against hastati units and anything better.
This means that whilst they will be used as archers whenever optional, they can double as emergency combat troops but take many losses. Their archery skills would be balanced out by the amount of time it takes to train and the fact that they can only be trained in one province. This means that Andor will not use them further from home very often because they can't train them in short amounts of time. They would be devastating in early game but as Andor expands these are likely to appear less often in armies sent abroad just because it would take them a while to get there.
The reason I think that they should be one unit only is that they would only really be used by Andor as longbowmen. The spearmen are really just normal militia with good morale.
They should be trainable only in the Two Rivers (stating the obvious) and also take a long time to train.
If you want I can post the stats. .
I'm repeating this as it seems to have been turned invisible by Crown of Swords' fantastic post. I think that the Aiel pictures are amazing. Also, if you are still intent on using the system of Quarters replacing temples then I have a couple of additions.
1) Knitting Circle quarters :- Small bonus to law, small bonus to happiness. 3rd level quarters allows training of Accepted Fugitives (Weaker versions of Aes Sedai with less ammunition, they come from the third level quarters as they are specialist troops to the faction as opposed to Aes Sedai which Tar Valon tries to train.)
2) Wise Ones' quarters :- Large bonus to law, in Rand Era the third level quarters allow training of Wise Ones.
3) Wisdom's Quarters :- Small bonus to happiness, bonus to health. Increased chances of healing after battle.
Black_Draen
01-20-2005, 22:47
About the Trollocks, I meant that the three clans decided should have their own units (trainable at level 1) and at level 2 Ko'bal and Dhai'mon could also be trained.
I don't like the idea of training Accepted Fugitives, really doesn't fit into the story. It could end up quite weird with women once trained in The White Tower and now attacking it :-P
By the way, CrownOfSwords; what pictures do we have permission to use?
CrownOfSwords
01-20-2005, 23:02
I havent talked to any of the artists, I think most of the drawings are done by small time artists in their spare time and I just picked and choosed drawings off of wotmania, im not sure about the legal rights about that considering most do not have their signatures either. But a few of them are big time artists I guess, like the artwork that came straight out of the book and the guy who did the New Spring drawings. I could email them I suppose, but does anyone know the legal issues involved? We aren't selling our modification so whats behind it?
I have a bunch more drawings of characters, I showed in that post about half of the drawings I have. Maybe I will post some more I put detail behind the characters just to give something else to look at. If I had a scanner I could do our artwork all myself, but lacking the scanner im forced to either draw in paint which arent high quality and really low detail, or ask permission to use other peoples drawings.
On another note I found my digital camera if I can find the cables and cd's required to put pictures onto my computer Ill try taking a picture of my drawings lol.. and see how the quality is. Good work guys, keep progressing :charge:
~:cheers: -CoS
i know you had problems getting help with the MTW version Myrddraal, so i am delighted you have a real team to work on the RTW now, should be among the best of the RTW mods. ~:cheers:
I havent talked to any of the artists, I think most of the drawings are done by small time artists in their spare time and I just picked and choosed drawings off of wotmania, im not sure about the legal rights about that considering most do not have their signatures either. But a few of them are big time artists I guess, like the artwork that came straight out of the book and the guy who did the New Spring drawings. I could email them I suppose, but does anyone know the legal issues involved? We aren't selling our modification so whats behind it?
I do not know about the legal stuff, but I think that we should ask, since it's bad behavior not to.And I think I read at art angels (the aiel sitting in the desert with swords, border) that she liked if you asked her before using her things.
I have a bunch more drawings of characters, I showed in that post about half of the drawings I have. Maybe I will post some more I put detail behind the characters just to give something else to look at. If I had a scanner I could do our artwork all myself, but lacking the scanner im forced to either draw in paint which arent high quality and really low detail, or ask permission to use other peoples drawings.
On another note I found my digital camera if I can find the cables and cd's required to put pictures onto my computer Ill try taking a picture of my drawings lol.. and see how the quality is. Good work guys, keep progressing :charge:
~:cheers: -CoS
If you have proper light, and a steady hand it usually works well wit a camera, I've done it some time...
Almost done with the quotes, I will send them to black_draen when I'm done, since he wanted to try them with some loadingscreen. It's many, much more then vanilla has....
Myrddraal
01-21-2005, 17:20
I'm repeating this as it seems to have been turned invisible by Crown of Swords' fantastic post. I think that the Aiel pictures are amazing. Also, if you are still intent on using the system of Quarters replacing temples then I have a couple of additions.
1) Knitting Circle quarters :- Small bonus to law, small bonus to happiness. 3rd level quarters allows training of Accepted Fugitives (Weaker versions of Aes Sedai with less ammunition, they come from the third level quarters as they are specialist troops to the faction as opposed to Aes Sedai which Tar Valon tries to train.)
2) Wise Ones' quarters :- Large bonus to law, in Rand Era the third level quarters allow training of Wise Ones.
3) Wisdom's Quarters :- Small bonus to happiness, bonus to health. Increased chances of healing after battle.
I'm neutral about merging the two 'two rivers' units into one. I like thme both ways. Have you considered the bug that means that giving a unit very high archery attack also increases their melee attack?
As for Accepted Fugitives. They never fight for any nation, they never even reveal themselves. I don't think they should be recruitable by anyone. I don't think the one power should be involved in the majority of battles. Aes Sedai involvement should be extrememly rare.
Andreas could you send me the quotes too, so I can upload them to the dev area.
CrownOfSwords
01-21-2005, 18:42
NO way should Two Rivers be pushed into one unit, the book distinctly seperates the archers and spearmen. OK I have class for the next two hours after that im going to search down some of these artists and email them asking for permission, next I will edit up that post make it all clean and nice for ya myd.
~:cheers: -CoS
Black_Draen
01-22-2005, 16:19
Uploaded the symbols, what do you think of them? What clan do you think should have which symbol?
==> The Shadow >Clan Hold
>>Trollock Cloisters
Level 1: * Band
Level 2: + Ko'bal Band, Dhai'mon Band
Level 3: + * Fist
Level 4: + Ko'bal Fist, Dhai'mon Fist
Level 5: + Armoured *
>>Oathbreaker's Circle
Level 1: Darkfriends Milita
Level 2: + Darkfriends Archers
Level 3: + Darkfriends Riders
Level 4: + Darksworn
Level 5: + Dreadlords
>>Weaponsmith
+ 1/2/3/4/5 Light weapons
+ 0/0/1/2/3 Ranged Weapons
+ 1/2/3/4/5 Armor
(not sure about the numbers)
>>Shadowforger (require level 3 city)
Level 1: Myrddraals
>>Ritual Chamber (require level 4 city)
Level 1: Creatures of the Blight
Level 2: Darkhounds
>>Hanging Grounds
+10/15/20/30/40% Law
>>Breeding Pits
+ 1/2/3/4/5% Population Growth
>>Fighting Arena
+1/2/3/4/5 Experience
Uploaded the symbols, what do you think of them? What clan do you think should have which symbol?
Ko'Bal is the trident, Dha'Vol the skull and I don't know the last, at least not now, I can find out though... But this isn't the clans decided to add... What do we change, the clans or the symbols?
Hmm I'm done with the quotes, almost.. Made a small misstake (forgot to change 17 of them, and I think it screw up if the numbers are wrong so I can't just take those 17 away. I will try to find 17 more, And i think I have about seven, but I need ten more... any sugestions? I've already used the good ones at wotmania..) It's well over 200 by the way, almost the double number of the original amount...
[Edit] The Iron fist is the banner of Dhai'mon. Found it in Against the Shadow, chap. 51 in EOTW. The trident should be blood red by the way.
Myrddraal: Od fourse I send it to you too, you're the leader after all.
And I found the additional quotes, took bits of diffrent prophecies.
Raistlin154
01-23-2005, 15:03
Just a thought, maybe in the pre-Rand era the White tower could be the senate? After all, everyone had to do what they said. I suppose that this could only work if you kept the emphasis off the shadow and more on the aiel war. I just don't know how overthrowing them would work, because nobody has tried that before the rebel sisters.
Black_Draen
01-23-2005, 17:36
ok, for some reasons the pictures didn't worked in the previous post. Here they are:
Dark One
http://img101.exs.cx/img101/1289/symbol128darkone2cc.jpg
Trollock Clans
http://img101.exs.cx/img101/6357/symbol128trollock17zg.jpg
http://img101.exs.cx/img101/1500/symbol128trollock21ur.jpg
http://img101.exs.cx/img101/5535/symbol128trollock33hy.jpg
Any comments? Should the spear-trident be red, or?
I'm neutral about merging the two 'two rivers' units into one. I like thme both ways. Have you considered the bug that means that giving a unit very high archery attack also increases their melee attack?
I did not know about that bug but, though the book separates the spearmen and the archers, I do not think that Andor would use the spearmen as part of its army. I just do not see the point as the longbowmen would be better than the spearmen and so no player would bother training the spearmen.
On the point of the Trolloc Clans, what are the Soulless (Gray Men) going to do, are they going to be assassins or a battlefield unit that can hide anywhere.
ok, for some reasons the pictures didn't worked in the previous post. Here they are:
Dark One
http://img101.exs.cx/img101/1289/symbol128darkone2cc.jpg
Trollock Clans
http://img101.exs.cx/img101/6357/symbol128trollock17zg.jpg
http://img101.exs.cx/img101/1500/symbol128trollock21ur.jpg
http://img101.exs.cx/img101/5535/symbol128trollock33hy.jpg
Any comments? Should the spear-trident be red, or?
You could use the pictures I sent you? They're very good anyway, spec. the iron fist. And I think the trident is good as it is, maybe just make it a tiny bit more red, but I do not think it's very necessary.
CrownOfSwords
01-24-2005, 05:25
Possibly Rhuidan could be the senate for the Aiel war, completely take away emphasis on the dark one and put it on the Aiel war. Anyone else been having problems with the forums wasn't able to edit my post the forums kept going down for me.. ~:cheers: -CoS
Possibly Rhuidan could be the senate for the Aiel war, completely take away emphasis on the dark one and put it on the Aiel war. Anyone else been having problems with the forums wasn't able to edit my post the forums kept going down for me.. ~:cheers: -CoS
I do not think thats a good idea, remeber that the aiel kept for them selfes most part of the ages. I do not think they should be focused on at all, since most of the conflicts in the modern era were between countries. To have the Aiel as focus would be wrong.
I personally do not think that the Aiel war should be the focus. I think that the war with the Shadow is far more interesting. Besides that, the Aiel only came to kill King Laman (I think that's right. I have just started re-reading the series.). Once he is dead the Aiel have no intention of staying and conquering. Thus there would be a particularly short campaign as Laman would die of old age. The Shadow wants to rule the world and thus would not stop having killed one king or taken one country.
Agents suggestion
Diplomats
Most countries - Diplomat
Aiel - Wise Ones
Shadow - Darkfriend Messenger
Tar Valon - Gray Ajah
Spies
Most countries - Spy
Aiel - Maiden Spy
Shadow - Darkfriend Spy
Tar Valon - Blue Ajah (have all of their informers)
Assassins
Most Countries - Assassin
Aiel - Knife Hands
Shadow - Gray Man
Tar Valon - Red Ajah (sometimes they would rather not have to face a man who can channel head on)
good suggestions, but the three oaths prevent any aes-sedai from killing any but darkfriends or in defense of their own lives.
good suggestions, but the three oaths prevent any aes-sedai from killing any but darkfriends or in defense of their own lives.
Hmm not reallt, the Red Ajah would have no problems with accusing someone for beeing able to channel. And it only prevents them from killing with the power, the can still use knifes, crossbows, poison and so on. I like it, even if I might agree that the Red Ajah isn't 100% correct, but it gives the right feeling with all three posts beeing represented by Aes Sedai.
"good suggestions, but the three oaths prevent any aes-sedai from killing any but darkfriends or in defense of their own lives."
True but this
a) as Andreas has said only applies to using the power. It also never mentions anything about not using air to suspend someone whilst another person stabs them.
b) only applies to themselves. They can still get others to poison, stab or put an arrow through a potential annoyance. The same principal applies to the Blue Ajah. The inability to lie would make personally spying very difficult. Therefore they use others for it who simply support the sister.
Also, men who can channel are much often stronger than women. This means that if a sole Red Sister is tracking a man who can channel then it is obviously very hard to win a head-on confrontation. Therefore it would be probable that a Red Sister learns other ways of beating them. Whilst unethical it would be a helpful skill.
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned...
Is it possible to create "Rebel" factions, similar to MTW. If so, it would allow us to implement the idea of False Dragons.
ShadowStriker
01-25-2005, 03:23
when can this be downloaded to public?
Myrddraal
01-25-2005, 13:36
Ok, I have quite a lot of things to say.
I have been doing some work on the campaign map, I have renamed all the provinces and settlements using the Oblivion research and I am working on making new climates for the Blight, the Waste etc. I should have uploaded these by the end of the day.
One thing I really like about battles is the geography. I always liked the far out shots in LOTRs, and now in game I enjoy it just as much for WOT. I played on the slopes of Shayol Ghul, you could see across the valley of Thrakandar, all the way across the Blight, to the mountains of Doom. It was an impressive sight.
About assasins for Aes Sedai, I can't see it. Aes Sedai never do the dirty work, they pull the strings and an assasin slips poison in for them. I think an assassin should be called a White Tower Agent, or somthing like that.
I got the quotes from Andreas, I will put them in the Dev section.
If anyone wants to do some work on the map, the best thing I think would either be ground types or adding buildings setting the sizes of settlements.
i understand and applaud the decision to use the senate+families for Naeblis+Trolloc tribes, but how are you now going to differentiate Tar-Valon from other ordinary nation states?
Myrddraal
01-25-2005, 15:46
Apart from make them allied to most nations and have them have agents everywhere, I guess there's nothing we can do...
Black_Draen
01-25-2005, 15:49
*-Peregrine_Tergiversate: Do we need to?
*- Myrddraal: Sounds nice with the campaign-map :-)
Here is my suggestion for loading-screen, I couldn't use your logo because the text was so small that it couldn't be read - and even if I could make it larger (haven't figured out how to use larger pictures than the original) I'm not sure if it would fit.
Second, the background is temporary - it should be exchanged with a nice picture by one of Crowns pictures or alike. I played the map as "britons" on the mod-campaign - the symbol is Altaras.
http://img157.exs.cx/img157/7683/loadingscreensuggestion2hd.jpg
yes, because Tar-Valon is not just an ordinary nation state.
as to what can be done to make them different.............
> could the cost of agents be reduced for Tar Valon alone?
> are the behavioural attributes of nation states sophisticated enough to be able to make them less likely to attack specific nations?
people came up with all kinds of clever work-arounds for the diplomatic model in MTW, i'm sure they shall be equally inventive in RTW. :)
CrownOfSwords
01-25-2005, 23:42
I like your suggestions for the diplomats etc, but Red Ajah will not assassins that is just incorrect. Red Ajah only cares about men who can channel not trying to kill kings in the way, that should be done by some Tower follower. During the Aiel War era Aes Sedai will not be included in the battles, at this time there is no One Power being used in battle. As for who is to be the senate in this age I still think it should be Rhui'dan, perfect take away emphasis from the Dark One in this age for the Blight isnt waging a huge war or anyhting, but make the wars between nations more important. Maybe just make the blight one faction during this time peroid, give them a large bonus to defense in the blight, make them unplayable also, and we have a accurate representation of the blight. The blight should only be powerful enough to throw some raids out everyonce in awhile maybe take a few provinces if the blight border nations are not careful. While with Rhui'dan being the center it will cause everyone to go after the Aiel, make the Aiel 4 factions just like in RTW, same sort of alliance in RTW. The aiel will be forced to conquer fight Wetland nations which could give some sort of effect of the Aiel war. Though Cairhien may be a VERY difficult nation to play in this age lol, it will give a good representation of the Aiel War.
Who else would be the Senate of the Aiel War peroid, dont say Shayol Ghul that would take away from the war with the Aiel and make it be the goal of the time peroid to take Shayol Ghul which doesnt happen till later (if it happens ~:confused: )
Also Myd are we able to change the Seasons? Make the years atleast take 4 turns to complete? Otherwise the 20 year time peroid will go pretty quickly. Better to make it like 8 turns per year. Then we can introduce many of the characters from the books to being faction leaders and heirs and not have to worry about them dying of old age.
~:cheers: -CoS
Who else would be the Senate of the Aiel War peroid, dont say Shayol Ghul that would take away from the war with the Aiel and make it be the goal of the time peroid to take Shayol Ghul which doesnt happen till later (if it happens ~:confused: )
But the aiel were even less important, the most important events I think was the whitecloakwars and tha struggles along the blight. To use Aiel as focus would be wrong, that wasn't even a real war in their eyes.
I agree with Andreas. Besides, we do not even know if Rhuidean was once used as a city. I think that it was not even finished. It probably could be included as a side event.
I agree with Andreas. Besides, we do not even know if Rhuidean was once used as a city. I think that it was not even finished. It probably could be included as a side event.
oh yes, I forgot that. It has never been used as a place where people live since the days of Jenn.
Kheshmet
01-26-2005, 15:14
I'm a big fan of the wheel of time series and I'm a fan of Rome:total war, so please go on and make this works ~:).
It's a pity I'm a complete n00b, so I can't help in what sort of way, but if your guys are looking for a beta-tester ~;).
But thanks for being busy with such a great mod
Myrddraal
01-26-2005, 15:38
Thanks for the support Kheshmet ~;)
Myrddraal
01-26-2005, 16:43
I've had a go at modelling, I'm not very good, and I don't have 3ds max, so I can't import or export as CAS.
Based on this pic:
http://img50.exs.cx/img50/1463/cairhienfoot26bx.jpg
I've made this helmet:
http://82.68.81.226/david/WoT%20for%20Rome/cairhelm2.jpg
Here being modeled by the RTW model NaeBlis sent me ages ago:
http://82.68.81.226/david/WoT%20for%20Rome/Cairhelm.jpg
Its got far to many polys to implement in game. Many of these will have to be got rid of.
Apart from that, what do you think?
I've had a go at modelling, I'm not very good, and I don't have 3ds max, so I can't import or export as CAS.
Based on this pic:
http://img50.exs.cx/img50/1463/cairhienfoot26bx.jpg
I've made this helmet:
http://82.68.81.226/david/WoT%20for%20Rome/cairhelm2.jpg
Here being modeled by the RTW model NaeBlis sent me ages ago:
http://82.68.81.226/david/WoT%20for%20Rome/Cairhelm.jpg
Its got far to many polys to implement in game. Many of these will have to be got rid of.
Apart from that, what do you think?
I think it's great, wonderful models. Can see the poly issue though, but still wonderful.
Was thinking about the resources in different provinces today (okay, I know it's a bit geeky but I got a hour of boring programming today, you can do a lot of thinking at those....:)) and this is what I came up with:
Recourses
Andor:
Iron, Silver, Cooper, Gold (All-In-One mining?)
Horses
Alum
Grain
Two Rivers:
Two rivers tabac
Wool
Saldea
Furs
Ice Pepper
Tear
Olive oil
Horses
steel (swords, knifes)
Grain
Altara
Olive oil
Tarabon
Dyes
Mayene
Oil from flyfish
Gheldan
Tabac
Aiel
Silk
Ivory
Sea Folk Islands
Silk
Ivory
Arad Doman
Wood
Is there something missing? And, I think the two rivers tabac should bring more money then the normal. And even if we have no facts about other countries we must come up with something. Also, do anyone know if it is possible to make the river trade routs, we know that those are the main source for the trade. Guess it cannot be done, but still, maybe we can fix this by giving a bonus in trade for the regions with river crossing them, how much depending on which river it is. I will think more on the webdesign tomorrow.
(Funny note: when I spellchecked this, they wanted to change my misspelt bonus to boobs:))
CrownOfSwords
01-26-2005, 18:44
No you don't understand who is going to have the Capital city that everyone needs to take? Shayol Ghul is wrong, not until Rand era should the blight be that emphasized. And no Rhui'dan is still a capital in a way its where the Wise Ones meet its sacred grounds to the Aiel even if the city isnt inhabited. Plus by writing the Aiel over Rome it will give them the initiative to start the Aiel war. And if you dont think the Aiel war was the most important thing during this time you need to re-read the books. There is no reference to large battles along the blights, only skirmishes and such. The last large battle was when Malkier fell. And from what I understand that is before the peroid we are putting on. By giving the blight a small role it will effectively represent the simple raiding the blight was doing, give its units a big bonus to fighting in the blight to keep people from conquering it, but also give the blightborder nations the need to continuously defend the border. We dont know much about the Whitecloak War other than in Winter's Heart they make a reference that the Whitecloacks took Ebour Dar, and something about Altaran High Noon, where the Altaran's would kill them and hide I suppose.
How else can we represent the Aiel war and the largely inactive Blight? Give your ideas Tar Valon is a bad idea, all the other cities aren't exactly huge empires or anything. Maybe it could be the stone to represent the end of this Era and transition into Rand's.
~:cheers: -CoS
No you don't understand who is going to have the Capital city that everyone needs to take? Shayol Ghul is wrong, not until Rand era should the blight be that emphasized. And no Rhui'dan is still a capital in a way its where the Wise Ones meet its sacred grounds to the Aiel even if the city isnt inhabited. Plus by writing the Aiel over Rome it will give them the initiative to start the Aiel war. And if you dont think the Aiel war was the most important thing during this time you need to re-read the books. There is no reference to large battles along the blights, only skirmishes and such. The last large battle was when Malkier fell. And from what I understand that is before the peroid we are putting on. By giving the blight a small role it will effectively represent the simple raiding the blight was doing, give its units a big bonus to fighting in the blight to keep people from conquering it, but also give the blightborder nations the need to continuously defend the border. We dont know much about the Whitecloak War other than in Winter's Heart they make a reference that the Whitecloacks took Ebour Dar, and something about Altaran High Noon, where the Altaran's would kill them and hide I suppose.
How else can we represent the Aiel war and the largely inactive Blight? Give your ideas Tar Valon is a bad idea, all the other cities aren't exactly huge empires or anything. Maybe it could be the stone to represent the end of this Era and transition into Rand's.
~:cheers: -CoS
The blight is more inactive now then ever before, and the aiel was one big thing, but remember this: The world as it looks now started in year 1 NE. The aiel came across the Dragon Wall 976. Between that, they were more inactive then the blight, excepting year 560 when they gave Cairhien the right to cross their lands. The trollocs on the other hand were fairly active during these years with fighting always going on. That people talk of the aiel war is because it happened during their life times. We don't really talk much about the napoleon wars now, but that were more devasting then most discussed conflicts today, as were the 30-year war and so on. You talk about what you experienced. To focus on the aiel because of their small interference in the westworld is wrong, and even the blight is a better option in that case then aiel, even if I agree with you that thats also wrong. I might even say that the aiel war should be left out completely, since there is no way to represent it. Maybe it should be a later campaign, but I think the first release should be pre Rand and Rand, and IMO the aiel war is all about Rand. The white tower or the blight is my vote. The white tower is probably the best, since they are what all rulers hate, since they always interfere. make them powerful, so that you always leave them as long as you can, and make the borderlands their countries... three of them at least, maybe not Saldea. Thats what I think at least.
And I would STRONGLY disagree if you made Rhui'dan capital, it should not be inhabitated. That would take away lot of the feeling in the game, since it would be very wrong. In Rand-era, sure, but not in the pre-Rand. Aiel do not have cities, they have holds, and the Cold Rocks is what we have as the largest.
i disagree with CoS.
the current system whereby the Roman factions are replaced by the Shadow is nearly perfect.
I do think the Aiel should be included however, the fact of the Aiel war was merely a result of Lamans Sin, in this version of events Laman (Carhien) may never commit that sin, in which case the Aiel would remain a powerful non-expansionist nation.
I agree with Andreas and Peregrine. But instead of "Shadow", we should call it "Moriddin", as the goal is to become Naeblis, and Moriddin is the closest to Naeblis in the Dark One's hierachy, and thus the goal to defeat him.
CrownOfSwords
01-27-2005, 06:30
As far as I know there are going to be two campaigns the Aiel war and Rand era, im talking about the Aiel War not the Rand Era, yes the shadow will be Rome in Rand era. Reread what I said carefully you misunderstood what im saying. Obviously it would the Dark One in Rand era, but in the Aiel war era they we not dealing with the blight.
~:cheers: -CoS
Myrddraal
01-27-2005, 12:06
I think that the first campaign should start well before the Aiel War. It we started with the Aiel war, you'd only have 20 tunrs of play.
I think the game should start about 200 years before the fall of malkier
By this time, (according to the World of the Wheel), the other older nations (Almoth, Caralain etc) have all faded away. Basically, you get 200 years of the world as it is in the books + Malkier. That’s 400 turns (800 if I can get the four turns a year script to run smoothly). Plenty of time.
I think that the senate = naeblis (Ishamel in normal era), rome = shayol ghul, families = trolloc tribes, is perfect. It makes all the objectives work.
I agree with Myrdraal. Also, if I am not mistaken, isn't Shaidar Haran Nae'Blis. Doesn't Moghedian tell Graendal that in the books. If I am wrong then please ignore this.
I do not think that the Aiel war suits as a main campaign. Only a few nations take a major part in it and you would need three separate Aiel tribes to do so. Also it did not end with the Aiel killing each other. It simply does not make sense that the Aiel would try to wipe out the other clans. The first known instance of this is Rand Era with the Shai'do.
Tar Valon is not a good senate as
a) which countries would it control.
b) the countries it would control did not end up besieging the Shining Walls.
Shayol Gul is a little inaccurate but it is better than any other senate that I can think of. This is a "what could have happened" campaign and I think that there is no reason for the other nations to want Rhuidean, they do not even know that it exists! On the other hand to capture Shayol Gul would be defeating the Shadow and all of the nations know that it is there. It would gain great prestige for the nation as well as presenting an incredibly hard to take fortress.
Black_Draen
01-27-2005, 14:16
Maybe we should "finish" two or three factions in custom games? It could be quite nice to play test-games between the mod-members. We don't need many skins - we can add that later. Do you know what files that should be edited to fix the unit-stats and alike?
Another thing; the quotes does not seem to always work (crashed sometimes when loading the loading-screen). I believe it's because there are more quotes than original. I think it can be fixed by changing in descr_quotes_lookup.txt and descr_transition_screen.txt in the data-folder, but I haven't tested it yet.
CrownOfSwords
01-27-2005, 18:56
Thats why I was curious if we could break down the turns per year even more, like 4 per year or even more than that. I was looking to accurate represent the book, and by the Aiel being Rome during the Aiel war era, it was cause them to expand significantly, while the shadow being one faction wouldnt do as much, but keep the blight on their toes like it was. I think if were not going to do that lets focus on Rand era for our first campaign, we know alot more about the time peroid and would be a helluvalot of fun to play with the Seachan, Rand, the Dark One the one power being wielded in battles.
~:cheers: -CoS
I think that it is more likely to make the shadow be destroyed if it is only one nation. The Aiel did not expand as far as I know. They just came, killed Laman and went back.
Myrdraal, I'd like to join the WoT team and help by editing the text files. I currently have only really modded export_descr_unit, export_descr_unit_enums, export_units, export_descr_buildings and descr_strat but I can learn to use the others quickly. I can't model but I'd love to help get the mod finished.
Another thing; the quotes does not seem to always work (crashed sometimes when loading the loading-screen). I believe it's because there are more quotes than original. I think it can be fixed by changing in descr_quotes_lookup.txt and descr_transition_screen.txt in the data-folder, but I haven't tested it yet.
Yes, I suspected such thing could happen, I will look into it this weekend. Haven't had any problems myself so far, but it might just be that I haven't got any of the last 200. I will try to change the figures, or I will cut away.
And I think that you are right, Myrddraal. For one thing, the whole Aiel situation forced all the countries to tound up together, and a two part war would be... boring to play. About 200 years before Malkeri sounds fine.
And I think that Ruhedain should be a wonder, with chaendar as the settlement, it would be the most correct solution.
CrownOfSwords
01-27-2005, 20:30
gah whatever im just giving my input, the time around Rand would be a lot more fun to play. And would give a new style of gameplay othewise its basically the same as RTW with a few different units, if we throw in the One power and the creatures the Seachan uses etc would make the game more interesting. ~:cheers: - CoS
Wouldn't it be easier to use an undocumented era for the mod? Then we have more freedom to represent the game the way we want, and it won't go against the storyline in the book either.
Because with Rand's Era, or the Aiel War, we have to follow events that happened, but with events that aren't documented, we can make them turn out however we want.
CrownOfSwords
01-28-2005, 04:19
We dont have to follow the 'storyline' thats the whole point of this game. Everytime you play the campaign something different happens, all we have to do is accurately represent the countries by armies and what they control and then let them loose. Its always been that way with RTW. I just dont see how you guys would rather play with Malkier rather than Rand, and the Seachan.
~:cheers: -CoS
We dont have to follow the 'storyline' thats the whole point of this game. Everytime you play the campaign something different happens, all we have to do is accurately represent the countries by armies and what they control and then let them loose. Its always been that way with RTW. I just dont see how you guys would rather play with Malkier rather than Rand, and the Seachan.
~:cheers: -CoS
I want to play as Rand and that but that also planned, if got it right. There will be two campaigns, one with Rand and one without, and what I meant what that I didnt want the other to center around the aiel war.
Myrddraal
01-28-2005, 09:27
Ok guys, put it this way: At the moment we will work on files which are common to both campaigns. Like the map and the basic nations/units. We will then make the differences.
Orb, you are very welcome. I don't suppose anyone else has a problem with it, so you can call yourself a member.
As for setting up the factions, I think its a great idea. But we need to get some units first. I suggest the basic units, which are common to all the game. I will see how good I am at modelling. ~;)
Myrddraal
01-28-2005, 09:33
Also check out this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2512829#post2512829) with regards to permission.
I think that the first campaign should start well before the Aiel War. It we started with the Aiel war, you'd only have 20 tunrs of play.
I think the game should start about 200 years before the fall of malkier
By this time, (according to the World of the Wheel), the other older nations (Almoth, Caralain etc) have all faded away. Basically, you get 200 years of the world as it is in the books + Malkier. That’s 400 turns (800 if I can get the four turns a year script to run smoothly). Plenty of time.
I think that the senate = naeblis (Ishamel in normal era), rome = shayol ghul, families = trolloc tribes, is perfect. It makes all the objectives work.
sounds perfect.
Black_Draen
01-28-2005, 14:34
Sounds good with the permission, hopefully we won't have any problems with it ~:)
Anyone heard from TheDevil? He was going to send me his four symbols when he had done them but I haven't seen him here for a while.
Anyone know what background color Malkiers banner should have?
Myrddraal; hows it going with the website, do you need any help?
Myrddraal
01-28-2005, 15:46
The old website still works, though it isn't up to date:
Wheel of Time for Rome (http://82.68.81.226/david/WoT%20for%20Rome/)
If you mean web design, sure, any member can do what they like to the website. Just send me the files.
I might be wrong but is Malkier a golden crane on a white background.
CrownOfSwords
01-28-2005, 18:49
What are we going to do about all these models we need to make? We need a serious modeler or a few.. ~:cheers: -CoS
I checked up the quotes thing, and I found the problem in the files mentioned by black_draen. Will re-install my game tomorrow, and change all the info in these two files. WIll send it to the involved tomorrow evening.
And I do not know about the Malkeri banner, it's a golden crane in flight, yes, but the BWB doesn't say anything else. Might be found in EoTW (Rand sees banners over the seven towers), or in NS. I might check it out.
Between, have you done any advertiments an the large WoT sites? Might be away to find members and stuff like that, and that's good for the producement. I could do some promotion on wotmania, I'm pretty acitve there...
Black_Draen
01-28-2005, 20:54
What I meant about the website was if you had any problems with making it work, or if its simply the server providing it that has gone down.
Have you done any building descriptions or unit-descr to The Prophet yet? Only wanted to check so I don't do any double-work ~:)
I'm pretty sure that in Eye of the World, Rand sees a greatsword in the Shienar armoury (or weapons store). Shouldn't Shienar have two-handed swordsmen then.
I'm pretty sure that in Eye of the World, Rand sees a greatsword in the Shienar armoury (or weapons store). Shouldn't Shienar have two-handed swordsmen then.
I'm alos pretty sure that they have two-handed swords, since they do not have shields, and not two swords... That must be two-handed?
Anyway, sent the missing quotes files to myrddraal now, wasn't to hard... Actually I found excel very handy to work in.
I was thinking of start to work with the camp. map now, but what is left to do? What isn't done by someone and so on, I need to know so I do not start with anything someone else does.
Sorry about the bad language but I'm very tired....
Myrddraal
01-29-2005, 16:23
Andreas, Thanks for the quotes. About the campaign map, I've quite busy recently so I haven't done much work. Everything that is in the readme still applies apart from:
I have edited the names to make them the right names using the oblivion research. I have got rid of three provinces around central andor and murandy (it was too cluttered)
I have an important question for you first. before we continue work on the map, should we make it bigger? I mean the scale, should we increase the scale?
Black_Draen
01-29-2005, 18:45
I don't think so, I feel its the quality and not the size that matters in this case. I have hard to see how a larger map would improve the mod.
I have a suggestion about how to get the mod-work more organized. If we could get a developers homepage (maybe beside the public-homepage?) we could write up all the members and what they are doing/working at for the moment.
For example
Black_Draen is working at data/loading screen
Andreas is working at quotes.txt
and so on...
If a mod-member then would like to start edit something he could simply write to you (Myrddraal) "I'll get started on that Shieneran Lancer" or "I fix the descr_unit.txt with all our unit info". We could have a list on everything that needs to be done within the mod and as soon as anyone of us has been done with one thing, we can send it to Myrddraal, uploading it for everyone, and then simply choose a new thing.
It could also be good with a "Updated the -- ------- 2005" to make it possible for everyone to see how old the info is.
What do you think of it?
Myrddraal
01-29-2005, 18:49
Sure thats easy to set up as well. I just put an index html file in the current dev area.
I set that up for monday, as hopefully the server should be sorted by then.
Andreas, Thanks for the quotes.
The quotes doesn't work 100% now actually, but if my guess why is right, the CTD chance has been decreased from 1:2 to 1:200. I'll fix it tomorrow.
I have edited the names to make them the right names using the oblivion research. I have got rid of three provinces around central andor and murandy (it was too cluttered)
I have an important question for you first. before we continue work on the map, should we make it bigger? I mean the scale, should we increase the scale?
No, I do not think so. The movement time is already not correct, making it larger would make that worse.
Edit: Played at the map today (wonderful to play the battles at the Shayol Ghul slopes) but this happend:
http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload8/weird.jpg
Should be fixed:)
Myrddraal
01-29-2005, 19:08
Do you mean the man standing in Shayol Ghul. Don't worry about him, you can change his starting-coords in descr_strat. He is their family member.
Did you notice that if you go high enough, it snows on Shayol Ghul. I will fix this with climates.
Black_Draen
01-29-2005, 19:10
Sure thats easy to set up as well. I just put an index html file in the current dev area.
I set that up for monday, as hopefully the server should be sorted by then.
Nice :-)
Another thing; what background color do you want for, Malkier, Prophet, Aiel and Shaido?
Do you mean the man standing in Shayol Ghul. Don't worry about him, you can change his starting-coords in descr_strat. He is their family member.
Did you notice that if you go high enough, it snows on Shayol Ghul. I will fix this with climates.
No I didn't... Try that some other time:)
And he fled there after the battle:) Must be warm, at least.
And I know that you wanted to know about the leagl stuff, why not sending them a mail? http://www.tor.com/torfaq.html#contacting_tor Would be good to know how we can use chapter icons and that, too.
And I do not know about the Malkeri banner, it's a golden crane in flight, yes, but the BWB doesn't say anything else. Might be found in EoTW (Rand sees banners over the seven towers), or in NS. I might check it out.
Im pretty sure it says that it has a white backround, I read i a little over a week ago. (EoTW)
Myrddraal
01-30-2005, 02:24
Aiel I guess would be golden brown, a bit like their clothes. The others, I don't really know.
Ok, I will start with the ground types today, probaly around Altara/Illian. I will also add the rivers that start in those regions... Just so you know;)
Suggestion for retinue -
Gambler +1 influence, -1 management
Gray Man (shadow only) +1 to personal security
Black_Draen
01-30-2005, 18:36
ok, I'll do the Aiel-symbol this evening or tomorrow, but I need to know the background color for Malkier, Seanchan, People of the Dragon and the Prophet. + Shaido if we don't use the same as for Aiel.
At the developers page that I suggested earlier I also believe we need to gather all unit-info, retuine-info, unit-data, history and alike. At the moment all is spread out and it is hard to know what we have and what we haven't.
ok, I'll do the Aiel-symbol this evening or tomorrow, but I need to know the background color for Malkier, Seanchan, People of the Dragon and the Prophet. + Shaido if we don't use the same as for Aiel.
At the developers page that I suggested earlier I also believe we need to gather all unit-info, retuine-info, unit-data, history and alike. At the moment all is spread out and it is hard to know what we have and what we haven't.
Yes that seems good...
Hmm, I started editing the campaign map today, and it went... not so smoothly. The ground types went ok, but the features... First I had huge problems with the rivers giving CTD, which I solved... instead they didn't appear at all... strange... And the volcanos will have to be changed, I fear, since it looks ugly as it is, since they can only be one pixel, and that looks weird at dragonmount, and the shayoul ghul is too big, for pixels gives some sort of blue thing in the middle, and one gives a thing looking mostly like some kind of wart at the slopes:) So I guess that has to be changed.
But back to the ground types... what should I use for lover mountains, hills or low mountians? I didn't like the look the lowe mountains gave, and even if the hills aren't perfect, it's better... but what do you think?
I think that Malkier is white. People of the Dragon are Aiel. Not sure about the others.
Myrddraal
01-30-2005, 21:47
With the rivers not appearing, did you include a source? Have you got any pixels going diagonally. e.g:
gbgg
gbgg
ggbg
ggbg
Where g is a gray pixel and b is a blue one. If you do, this will make rivers invisible, but still impassable. Try crossing where one should be with a general.
When you've got to a convinient point. Send me the files. I will upload the files I have edited and yours all in one go.
I think people of the dragon should be red and black, red for the banner (red with aes sedai symbol) and black for the dragons fang.
Remember to make two copies of the files, one for Rand era, and one for Early era.
Black_Draen
01-30-2005, 22:32
ok, so you mean a red background with a black Aes Sedai symbol?
I have done an Aiel symbol though I believe it needs some improvement, should we have Shaido as an own faction in custom games - should Aiel in the Early-era and Shaido in Rands Era have the same symbol?
I can make Malkier with white background but Amadacia (whitecloaks) also have that background. Should I make it more gray or?
Seanchan's banner is another problem, I have looked in my World of RJ WOT but haven't been able to find any information about it.
With the rivers not appearing, did you include a source? Have you got any pixels going diagonally. e.g:
gbgg
gbgg
ggbg
ggbg
Where g is a gray pixel and b is a blue one. If you do, this will make rivers invisible, but still impassable. Try crossing where one should be with a general.
When you've got to a convinient point. Send me the files. I will upload the files I have edited and yours all in one go.
I think people of the dragon should be red and black, red for the banner (red with aes sedai symbol) and black for the dragons fang.
Remember to make two copies of the files, one for Rand era, and one for Early era.
Yes, I have sources, and no crossings:)
Do you want the files in layerfile, or in tga? I guess it would be easier with layers, but that depend on which program you use. I will skip the features now, and leave space for them(I look at the heigths, and take the river marks from there). On request from black_draen I have also started with some unit editing (sheinar), and will do that in between.
And I still say you should change name on the People of the Dragon to the Forces of the Dragon... The People is Aiel.
Can't you make malkeir more silver?
And as I said to you earlier, Golden Hawk against red/green.
Myrddraal
01-31-2005, 15:18
Malkier is a golden crane, not a hawk, Shienar is a swooping hawk on white and blue stripes.
Black_Draen
01-31-2005, 15:32
Let me just make sure I've got it right;
Malkier:
Silver background with golden crane
Forces (People?) of the Dragon:
Red background with black Aes Sedai-symbol
Aiel & Shaido:
Yellow/Brown background with two spears and a shield
Can we use the same symbol for Shaido and Aiel? Would be best since we probably won't have both in custom battle, or?
Seanchan:
Red/Green (Vertical) with Golden Hawk
+
The Prophet
Anyone have any suggestions?
Can I do the menu at the same time as the loading screen? They are quite similar and I thought it could be easiest that way.
Here is two version of the Aiel/Shaido symbol, who looks best?
http://img121.exs.cx/img121/4982/symbol128aielshaido7co.jpg
http://img121.exs.cx/img121/6558/symbol128aielshaido27dc.jpg
Myrddraal
01-31-2005, 16:09
Bottom one in my oppinion
Black_Draen
01-31-2005, 17:07
I also think so, are the colours/symbols above ok then? If so I start doing the Forces of the Dragon symbol now...
Myrddraal
01-31-2005, 17:25
For the forces of the Dragon, we have a choice, we either have the dragon, or the symbol of the Aes Sedai.
Which one?
For the forces of the Dragon, we have a choice, we either have the dragon, or the symbol of the Aes Sedai.
Which one?
The dragon I think, it would feel more... real, and I like the dragon banner more... Maybe have the Aes Sedai as symbol(it's better format...) and the dragon as battlefield banner?
And when I talked about the banner earlier I meant the Seanchan, forgot to wright that:)
And I agree, the bottom one for the aiel.
And you already know my opinion about the Prophet, I think a version of the dragon, but with black instead of red, and silver instead of gold would be very cool, and point at the darker apperance of those forces, and the possiblity od Forsaken hands...
CrownOfSwords
01-31-2005, 18:46
I still think it should be People of the Dragon sounds better and it isnt just the Aiel its whoever he rules. It started with the Aiel because they were prophesized to follow him, but thats not all he rules now is it :bow:
~:cheers: -CoS
I still think it should be People of the Dragon sounds better and it isnt just the Aiel its whoever he rules. It started with the Aiel because they were prophesized to follow him, but thats not all he rules now is it :bow:
~:cheers: -CoS
No, not really... The aiel are the People of the Dragon because they are the old dai'shain(sp? I never actually read all these weird names;)) Aiel, which served the Aes Sedai during the Age of Legends, and therefor had LTT as their leader, since he was tamyrilin. Thats why they are the people of the dragon, not because of the prophecy. Even if I agree with you that it sounds better for all armies connected to Rand, I od not think we should call them that, since that would be wrong if we want to follow the books.... :bow:
just a suggestion; would it be possible to start a campaign with Tar-Valon holding most nations as protectorates? with the exception of Amadicia and Tear of course.
this would only work if protectorate nations could still war against each other.......
but if they could it would be an excellent way of implimenting the influence wielded by Tar-Valon, it would also make the nations less likely to wage war on Tar-Valon which is fair because that isn't really a likely outcome.
if Tar-Valon could then be set to a defensive posture (or something similar) so it was less likely to wage aggressive war against other nations then that would be really perfect.
perhaps.............
whadaya think, possible or not?
*text*
The last thing I heard is that you cannot set protectorates, and still it would be wrong... Most countries listen to Tar Valon, yes, but not willingly. And Aes Sedai is despised in most countries, too. So it would not be good. Allied, maybe but most would shatter after a few rounds.
I'd agree with the dragon symbol being used for the forces/people of the dragon. I'm neutral about the forces/people issue as "forces" is more accurate but "people" sounds much better.
The last thing I heard is that you cannot set protectorates, and still it would be wrong... Most countries listen to Tar Valon, yes, but not willingly. And Aes Sedai is despised in most countries, too. So it would not be good. Allied, maybe but most would shatter after a few rounds.
cool, just tossing in an idea
i do think that Tar-Valon has to be differentiated in some way that better reflects its difference from regular nation states. :)
CrownOfSwords
02-01-2005, 02:08
No protectorates wouldnt work, better to have the correct nations allied together and such. As for the People and Forces issue, I still think People would be better, you just said it yourself they were called the People of the Dragon because they served LTT, I believe anyone who served him would be called the People of the Dragon. Now many nations serve him how are they not People of the Dragon? ~:cheers: -CoS
Black_Draen
02-03-2005, 10:59
Do we really need to make Tar Valon to different? Couldn't we simply make them allied to some fractions instead?
Andreas told me yesterday that he had fixed most data to the Shienar units, I'll give the Dark Ones units a try over the next few days - at that way we maybe can create a small test-version with Shienar and the Dark One. Could be fun to play some with all the mod-members.
About the symbols; I need a good picture of a dragon and a hawk to do the Prophet, POTD and Seanchan - if you have any (with full rights of course) please send them to me :-)
Andreas told me yesterday that he had fixed most data to the Shienar units, I'll give the Dark Ones units a try over the next few days - at that way we maybe can create a small test-version with Shienar and the Dark One. Could be fun to play some with all the mod-members.
Ah yes, I fixed it all now... I can sum up what I thougt when I did them, for those that were unclear...:
Royal Lancers: The elite of Shienar, with the knock-of feet ability. Very powerful charge, good in hand to hand. the foot is elite pikes.
Mounted Bowmen: Long range (hornbows...), fast shooting and serving both as fast skirmishing bowmen, and normal bows.
Fal Daran: Cav. with swords. Not so powerful charge, very good in normal combat.
The Guards: The first thing that came up where fast skirmishers (I got the picture of small bands of these raiding in the blight, and in that case javelins seems the best weapon). The horse mounted not very powerful in hand to hand, good javelins. The foot slightly badder missile attack, but better normal. Low armor, to represent the fact that it's hot in the blight:).
Both royal lancers and fal daran cavalry is few men, but very powerful. I get the impression that the borderlands can be very fun, but hard to play as (the shadow as first enemy, small amounts of land) and hard to start with, but if you get control of the border and the blight, you will have a very good ground.
But does this sound ok to the person who wrote the list?
About the symbols; I need a good picture of a dragon and a hawk to do the Prophet, POTD and Seanchan - if you have any (with full rights of course) please send them to me :-)
Did you get the permission for the heron?
CrownOfSwords
02-03-2005, 20:41
Im about finished reading the series again, last 50 pages of CoT and I found a good description of Ghealdin Lancers. They have bright silver breastplates and armor and bright green conical helmets with facebars. Except for the commander his helmet is bright silver also with green plumes, and I would give him a green cape. How is progress are we getting any models done, do we have any modelers? And are you going to upload the trollocs and aiel models into the dev section?
CrownOfSwords
02-03-2005, 20:46
Eh not quite the impression ive gotten from the Shienarians, no reference to javelinmen or the such. The basic weapon is the two handed sword which is strapped over their shoulder. Their heavy cavalry is the best in the world, and I would call them having small units either, normal size units but expensive. The heavy cavalry is said to carry maces or short swords besides their lances. They should have a heavy horse archer also who is able to shoot from saddle and fight with a short sword. The impression from these men is that all are well equipped and heavily armored and well trained since Sheinar knows nothing but war. If you do have a reference to javelinmen tell me, but theres nothing in any of the books about them.
Eh not quite the impression ive gotten from the Shienarians, no reference to javelinmen or the such. The basic weapon is the two handed sword which is strapped over their shoulder. Their heavy cavalry is the best in the world, and I would call them having small units either, normal size units but expensive. The heavy cavalry is said to carry maces or short swords besides their lances. They should have a heavy horse archer also who is able to shoot from saddle and fight with a short sword. The impression from these men is that all are well equipped and heavily armored and well trained since Sheinar knows nothing but war. If you do have a reference to javelinmen tell me, but theres nothing in any of the books about them.
I have the good heavy cavalry, with lances and swords, and heavy bowmen at horse but there must be some balancing, and I get a felling that these Guardians of the Blight(which I never seen... the roleplaying game?) would be best equipped with javelins, since I got the impression that they served all along the border, a bit like Lan did in the beginning, and in that case javelins and a pretty good hand-to-hand skill will be useful. I can raise the sec. weapon stat if you want to, but I think the javelins should be kept, since we know that ranged attacks are very useful against trollocs, and javelins is a very good weapon to use from a horse against foot. But as I said, I can change it but if we make them another heavy cav., it will be very similar to the royal lancer and the fal darans. I think javelin armed horse men would be fun to have, and they are very effective in combination with closecombat cavalry. We haven't seem references for most units, by the way...
:bow:
Black_Draen
02-04-2005, 14:21
Yes I got permission for the heron, but we'll need to include him in the credits for it - not a big problems I guess.
And we could need the Trollock model if we are to make this "mini-custom battle-version". I have symbols for both the Dark One and Shienar done so that will not be a problem.
I think the Trollocks should be quite cheap, with low defense and high attack - so they, as in the books, are best taken down from range. This will also make them vulnerable for charges but good in combat against normal infantry.
CrownOfSwords
02-04-2005, 18:42
I found a reference for a town guard Altaran unit, painted white armor with a crest of horse hair on their helmet. And as far as the Guardians of the Blight thing, I made them up dude, when I thought of them I reasoned them out as men who are not proffessional soldiers who only take up arms in times of desperate need. I guess we can make them be anything we want I think giving them spears and shields and possibly like light armor would sound the best.
Myrddraal
02-04-2005, 20:25
Hi guys, sorry about the delay getting stuff on the dev area, I've been very busy over last week, I've done very little work on WOT.
I have some ideas to share with you:
Regional stats and uniforms
As you know there are several planned 'common' units, which are to be common to most nations like levy, pikemen, house armsmen etc.
The idea of regional stats and uniforms is this:
Each nation has a different model for these units, and this model is based, not on which faction is recruiting them, but which region.
For examle, Andor invades a province in southern Cairhien, and recruits a unit of pikemen. The pikemen wear Cairhienen helmets and armour, but wear andoran colours and insignia.
You could also have differences in the units which would be explained in the description. For example:
"Pikemen from Tear have a poor reputation. This area of Tairen military has long been under equiped and under trained by the Tairen Nobility who have a deep contempt for any soldier not mounted. This reflect on the quality and moral of the soldiers, as it is regarded as a last resort to join the pikes."
"Pikemen in Amadicia have a reputation for courage and discipline. Perhaps it is the strong presence of the Children of the Light that drives them to try to match their bravery. Many visitors to Amadicia would describe these men as Stolid"
etc.
I think this is a brilliant idea personally, what do you think?
Now as for modelling. My modelling I think has improved with a bit of practice, and I'm going to try making some units. But I don't have 3ds max (yet), so could someone send me a load of models please so I have something to help me work with. I would like a pikeman model, an archer model and a mix of others please in 3ds format.
Now because I don't have 3ds max I won't be able to do stuff like attach verticies to skeletons and stuff, I will just work on the appearance.
Andreas, I use paint shop pro, so anything which can be read by that would be great. If nothing else, send me the tgas pls.
I think the character of the borderlanders is:
Shienar - heavily armoured, best heavy horse in the world.
Saldea - light armour, fast and agile, best light cav in the world
Arafel - swordsmen, often fight with two swords
Kandor - don't know, but a region in Kandor is called the plain of lances so they must use cavalry...
Black_Draen
02-05-2005, 00:08
Sounds good about the common units, though I guess the Shadow and Aiel can't have these.
We could need to update the homepage soon. Are there still server-problems - I tried to enter today and then I had to enter a username and password. The developers pass we've got didn't worked so I couldn't enter.
Look at this, maybe it could serve as a "developers forum"? We could also store info and so here.
http://www.proboards.com/index.html
Myrddraal
02-05-2005, 01:00
I would have though the shadow, the aiel and the borderlanders shouldn't have the common units. The books never mention pikemen in the borderlands
CrownOfSwords
02-05-2005, 03:33
Yeah, the common unit among the blight are the Guardians of the Blight who are really no more than simple armored militia. As for the beta with The Blight and Shienar sounds like a great idea. If you want me to draw any paint concepts for it Myd just let me know, I have a cool idea for a Shienarian helmet. Corinthian style with a hole in the top so they can pull their top-knot through ~:cool:
~:cheers: - CoS
Edit: Myd what is the username and password for the link to the website in your prof.. I tried to old username and pw but didnt work.
Shienar should have some form of 'standard' horse archers. One of the Shienarians complains about Rand's bow being too long in "the great hunt" and that a horsebow could fire three times as fast. It's relatively fair to assume that the horsebow is a common cavalry weapon. Also, I haven't found a reference to javelins either but I do think that the balance of the game would be improved by them.
i love the idea about Common units.
Sheinar i imagine to be very similar to MTW's mongol faction with the mainstay units being:
very heavy cavalry
heavy horse archers.
Myrddraal
02-05-2005, 15:31
I did some work on a tairen helmet:
http://img212.exs.cx/img212/5903/helmtear4fr.jpghttp://img212.exs.cx/img212/8375/helmtear20zj.jpg
The texturing is very basic, nothing like what it will be in game:
http://img212.exs.cx/img212/8890/helmtear31ur.jpghttp://img212.exs.cx/img212/6048/helmtear44tf.jpg
They are described in the books as rimmed and ridged, so there you go...
I agree with Peregrine, Shienar has a very mongol feel to its military style.
CrownOfSwords
02-05-2005, 21:11
Sheinar does fight in somewhat the same way, but the armor is completely different keep that in mind. The problem with the horse archer thing is that, those 20 men who came with Rand im sure knew their sword just as well as their bow. I do not think Javelin's should be in the game in any other way than like the Romans used. There is no reference in the book to them peroid, if anything the aiel would be the only ones to have them. Good start Myd but the helmets are to resemble a Spanish conquistador helmet use the pictures I posted for reference, it needs to be more rounded and pointed in the front.
~:cheers: -CoS
Sheinar does fight in somewhat the same way, but the armor is completely different keep that in mind. The problem with the horse archer thing is that, those 20 men who came with Rand im sure knew their sword just as well as their bow. I do not think Javelin's should be in the game in any other way than like the Romans used. There is no reference in the book to them peroid, if anything the aiel would be the only ones to have them. Good start Myd but the helmets are to resemble a Spanish conquistador helmet use the pictures I posted for reference, it needs to be more rounded and pointed in the front.
~:cheers: -CoS
Hmm but if you do not like the javelinmen, I can take them away, but they are a great compliment to the other cavalry... And I think your guardians of the blight aren't very cool, it sounds so professional... maybe if we did them to real elite, with bows and great swordskill, with the foot guys the same (but on foot), took away the house armsmen, and the royal lancers on foot, and some kind of more professional militia, with slightly better stats then the normal borderland militia and a horse version, where they are soldiers armed with short lances. This would make the sheinar line up be:
Royal Lancers - best heavy cav. in the game, except seanchan beast riders, expensive and long training, but very kick ass.
Fal Daran cav. - Good heavy cavalry, using swords and high defence, able to stand a charge.
Mounted bows - bowmen on horses, fast, bad in hand-to-hand.
The Guardians - Bows and swords, good at both. Well armed and armoured, but expensive. On horse, and foot... where the foot will be very expensive.
And:
Borderland militia - bad armour, bad attack. Just to slow the charges down for bowmen and horse.
Trained Borderland militia - better armour, better attack. Might be able to make a difference, but not much. Comes in a mounted version for chasing enemies down.
This would make the player focus on horsemen, and the footmen will only be backup units... Hoe does this sound? (as it is now, the foot is a part that is almost equal to the cav.)... And no javelins.
Myrddraal
02-06-2005, 22:23
I'm working on a plate barded horse for the shienarans. Its basically finished, only problem is its about 850 polys compared to the light horse which is 750 polys. Is this ok or too big?
Can I send the model and texture to someone to implement it in game?
CrownOfSwords
02-07-2005, 06:56
Yes of course the Guardians of the Blight are semi proffesional due to the constant need of their skills. Maybe mediumly armored a bow, and a melee unit, but keep in mind there are no poor unexpierenced soldiers in the blight, these men are the weakness of the army the only thing the borderlands know is war, I wouldnt give them any crappy militia units just wouldnt seem right for any blight nations. Whats the chance of us finding some people who know how to make models? If we had like 2-3 guys working on models this mod would move right along. -CoS
Myrddraal
02-07-2005, 10:54
I can try to make models, but I need someone to export the CAS for me.
Yes of course the Guardians of the Blight are semi proffesional due to the constant need of their skills. Maybe mediumly armored a bow, and a melee unit, but keep in mind there are no poor unexpierenced soldiers in the blight, these men are the weakness of the army the only thing the borderlands know is war, I wouldnt give them any crappy militia units just wouldnt seem right for any blight nations. Whats the chance of us finding some people who know how to make models? If we had like 2-3 guys working on models this mod would move right along. -CoS
Yes, I know. But I made them good, just untrianed, and poor amrour. These are the normal workers, that they use when they are really needed... And I thougth that I'd make the Guardians real pro, the name sounds pro...
Myrddraal
02-07-2005, 13:22
The real pro's should be the royal unit of each borderlander, I don't think guardians of the blight should be as good as the factions individual units. Maybe we could change their name. To something like Borderguard or something for the borderlands.
Yes, that might be good. Light scouts, armed with lances. And change the name of the guardians to something else, giving them bows and good swordskill, making them a combination of sword cav. and mounted bows, but more expensive then those that only have one skill.
Myrddraal
02-07-2005, 14:44
Hm, I meant change the name of the guardians to the borderguard, but I guess we can have as many as we want
Hm, I meant change the name of the guardians to the borderguard, but I guess we can have as many as we want
I've done a new Unit line-up now, and it looks like this:
Cavalry:
Borderguards - the lighter cavalry. Armed with spears, and mostly used to chase routing units.
Mounted Bows - Not changed since last time, but I will draw the range down a bit, they were to powerful when they almost shot as long as the Cretean Archers:)
Fal Daran Cavalry - Armed with swords, good armour, very good with swords, "low" charge bonus, but high attack rating.
Royal Horse Archers - Heavy horse archers, ap arrows, almost as good with the sword as the Fal Daran Cavalry.
Royal Lancers - The elite. Superb charge, armour and very good second weapon(mace). Launching attack.
The last two will take two turns to train.
Infantry:
Borderland Militia - Not very powerful, ok attack, ok defence, trained.
Borderguards (foot): Can be useful, if used correctly. Better trained, armed and armoured then the militia.
I personally think that this configuration is good for Sheinar, it forces the player to use the cavalry to have any success, and you have to be a better commander to use it correctly, but if you do you have a very powerful army in your hands.
I will continue to the all nations and saldean troops now. I will upload the sheinar units some day soon.
CrownOfSwords
02-07-2005, 18:54
I like the new name better, Borderguards, and the list you just made sounds good andreas. Yes I was thinking the individual units of each nation would be the elites. ~:cheers: -CoS
Ahh good. I consider Sheinar done then. I'll send them to Myrddraal, and he can decide if he want to upload it now, or wait until we have more of them.
I'm also done with the quotes(no CTD's now...), and will send them too.
CrownOfSwords
02-07-2005, 23:44
Thats great news Andreas, I wish I had more skill at modding so I could help you guys out more. If you ever want concept art to base units off of just tell me the unit you want me to draw up and you'll have it in a few days.
~:cheers: -CoS
Thats great news Andreas, I wish I had more skill at modding so I could help you guys out more. If you ever want concept art to base units off of just tell me the unit you want me to draw up and you'll have it in a few days.
~:cheers: -CoS
It would be cool if you could try drawing some of the Shienar units:)
Anyway, I got a cool idea for the Sladean units look... I figured black boots to the knee, then wide blue trouser, silver harnesks and arms in the same style as the trousers, gauntlets, mustaches, and some kind of helmet. Would be cool if you could try painting that.
And it's not very hard to mod, try reading some tutorials, and you probably will be able to do it.
~:)
Black_Draen
02-08-2005, 16:12
Sounds nice about the Shienar ~:)
I have tried to fix some of the Shadows units but I have a found a thing we need to decide. Should the Trollocks be Fast moving? In the books I believe its written that they move as fast as a horse, but maybe its enough giving the Good Stamina?
I'll also try to fix the Tar Valon -symbol today (quite a challenge). As I said before - if anyone find a good picture, or can do one himself, of a golden hawk with lighting in its claws - then I could really need it for the Seanchan banner.
Myrddraal
02-08-2005, 17:21
Trollocs should be fast moving, they should be just a bit slower than a horse, to gived the cavalry a chance to escape them, but they should have no stamina at all, they are lazy.
Thx guys, the website is up again, I will make the Dev area and get it up to date next.
CrownOfSwords
02-08-2005, 20:39
I have a bunch of time off of class today, ill start working on a concept of a heavily armed Sheniarian. I like the idea for the Saldeans when I picture them I see them only wearing a breastplate a helmet and gauntlets not heavily armored fellows. ~:cheers: -CoS
RedSilver
02-08-2005, 22:01
Keep up the great brainstorming Mydd, and Co.
just don't lose heart, also try advertising around Twcenter if you haven't, for moddlers I mean.
CrownOfSwords
02-09-2005, 00:53
Ok im becoming quite skillfull at working in paint, they are not high quality at all but good enough to give our modelers some idea of what they are modeling. This drawing took an hour, I present a Shienarian heavy footman. ~:cheers:
http://img234.exs.cx/img234/7628/shienarian1ih.jpg
Note: Sorry for him not being porportional his head is too big :P and I also was not sure to make the it white trimmed or blue trimmed. And I couldve done a better hawk drawing if we had the Sheniarian flag uploaded
~:cheers: -CoS
Edit: What concept would you like next? I think the royal shienarian lancers are not going to have the emblem over the chest, but have their plate uncovered with a cape that could have the emblem on it. Also im split on how the Shienarian helmets should look like!.. Suggestions welcome.
CrownOfSwords
02-09-2005, 07:48
Heres a present
http://img206.exs.cx/img206/2930/seachan22ne.jpg
SEACHAN!!!! :charge:
Edit: This one has been bugging me since the begining how to successfully draw a Seachan soldier, ive made hundreds of attempts and quit half way through thinking it wasnt right this is the first ive finished. Took 2 hours enjoy.
CrownOfSwords
02-09-2005, 08:00
Here's an old paint drawing I did, not very good in my opinion but it gets the point across:
Queen's Guard and Heavily Armored Queen's Guard
http://img216.exs.cx/img216/3041/queensguard1ey.jpg
:charge:
Edit: LOL I remember why these are so bad, I did these before I knew you could zoom in, in paint thats why the detail isnt as good I did these zoomed out! Still props for them looking that good! ~:cheers:
I have a bunch of time off of class today, ill start working on a concept of a heavily armed Sheniarian. I like the idea for the Saldeans when I picture them I see them only wearing a breastplate a helmet and gauntlets not heavily armored fellows. ~:cheers: -CoS
As me then~:)... Awesome artwork, by the way.
I started with saldea yesterday, not done but I got this plan:
First level: The border units
Second: Saldean Light Lancers
Saldean Light Swordsmen
Saldean Light Javelins (they return!)
Saldean Foot archers
Third: Royal Lancers
First level you know, and for the others:
The three light classes have the same armour, mounts and so on and it's the weapon that differs. I re-introduce my javeliners, since they fit in the Saldean style. Javelins are chargers, swordsmen defenders(not as good as Fal Daran's). The footarchers are to give a focus point for the enemy to give the light infantry time to get around them. These archers are better then the vanilla RTW archer, not as good as cretan, but can hide in long grass. They make a great compliment to the Light Cav. and we know that Bashere like fighting with ranged footmen.
The Royal is also light cav, but better defence, a good sword skill and a strong charge.
About the trollocs, you could give them love armour but high defence, it will make them vulnerable for bows and flanking attacks but hard to face in hand-to-hand...
Myrdraal, you haven't emailed the files to me yet.
Andreas, I love the unit list for Shienar. I also think that borderguards is a better name.
I'm going to try and find as much information on Malkier as I can in the next few weeks as it is the nation we have the least information on. Also a suggestion for the Trollocs.
Gray Men
Unit size - 12
Abilities - Hide anywhere, i am not sure how to stop them from getting flaming arrows as they are infantry "archers", armour piercing shots
Weapons - Crossbows, daggers
Armour - light armour, no shield
This would give the Shadow a bit of variety and also make it less repetitive to either play as them or against them.
Black_Draen
02-09-2005, 13:32
Really nice work Crown, I especially like the Shieneran soldier. Do you mind if I use your hawk to the Seanchan symbol? I will alter it a bit so it won't look as the Shieneran.
About gray men; wouldn't it be better to simply have them as assassins? As far as I know they where not many enough to be used in full-scale battles. Maybe if we had units with only 4 in each (is that possible?).
EDIT: Crown; have you done any drawings of the "Dragon" that is used in WoT? Only wanted to ask because if you have one I can use - I can fix the Prophet and POtD symbols.
Aemilius
02-09-2005, 15:30
Damn I want to be a Whitecloak with an army of "Questioners of the Light". Keep up the good work.
-Burn those Tar Valon Witches
CrownOfSwords
02-09-2005, 18:34
No sorry I havent drawn the dragon, look at the one in the book. When I get off class today ill work on a saldaean soldier. ~:cheers: -CoS
No sorry I havent drawn the dragon, look at the one in the book. When I get off class today ill work on a saldaean soldier. ~:cheers: -CoS
That would be cool, I tried to use your Sheinaran soldier as unit card for the fal daran's, for the time, before we have any in-game to use(even if I prefer artwork, but I guess that would be to much work for you:))
And I finished my first version of the three ground cav for Saldea, and it were pretty cool. I fought a battle with them, and I think they are a good combo, using swords to draw attention first, then attacking with the javelins against the flanks, drawing the lines apart, and finally hit with the lances in the rear. I got the enemies footunits separated, and were able to deal with them 1:2, or 1:3, which is the best chance you have against speararmed foot. Very smooth. But I had to ignore routing units, but you can take that. Now I only have the Royal left.
And, talking of unit pics, how do I make the color transparent? Only white, or black, doesn't work...
And a look on how the unit card became:
http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload9/unitcard.gif
Black_Draen
02-09-2005, 19:23
You can do it in PS, should I do it for you? If you have photoshop use the "clear" -brush to make areas transparent - then save as TGA.
I think I can do it... hmmm I will try to find what you mean, I have it on swedish... but I want to learn, I could use it for my placeholders to.
I can give you some hopefully good news. First, I'm done with Saldea and will start with the common troops.
Secondly, and probably more important I have downloaded a 3d program, and will start to try learning to make 3D-models. Can't promis anything, but if it works good, I will help with this too.
And the Saldean army can be tricky to play with, if you forget your flanking units and leave them alone...~:)
Myrddraal
02-11-2005, 20:25
Great, anyone with 3ds max who I could send my barded horse model to?
Great, anyone with 3ds max who I could send my barded horse model to?
I haven't got the program yet, and I will have to take some days to learn it...
Should we change the faction colors? And if I we know yet which factions that will be included, which are they? Would be cool if we could change the names to give it more spirit for the custom battles.
CrownOfSwords
02-12-2005, 03:04
Ok here it is, a Saldean trooper. I wasn't sure on the colors or about a helmet so I just picked blue and didn't give him a helmet.
http://img169.exs.cx/img169/3807/saldean7fp.jpg
Cool, I try to use him as a unitcard too, if it's ok... could you make one with a short lance or something like that too? Would be cool...
And you know you can resize the images in Paint, right? Theres small dots in the corners that you can resize them with... And you should try to get hold of photoshop or something, it's a 1000 times better. And I think they are cool withour helmets~:)
And the briton's are very succesful in my latest campain, since a gave them all of Saldean troops and made them buildable in the first level Warhold ot what ever it's called:) When the others have peasants, they have the Saldean Royal and Light cav. It's weird, they ride over all enemies:)
Myrddraal
02-12-2005, 20:37
NaeBlis, do you have 3ds max, I need someway to implement my models. If someone could extract the Trolloc model as well, I will work on making variations for the different units...
CrownOfSwords
02-12-2005, 22:01
Ok my next project will be a Royal Saldean lancer, ill edit it into this post when its complete. Ill see what I can do about getting photoshop, I will be able to draw much the same in there also?
I do have 3dsmax, but wont be able to use it until 24th Feb when my laptop is supposed to arrive. Sorry about wait - my dad's computer can't handle 3dsmax either.
Ok my next project will be a Royal Saldean lancer, ill edit it into this post when its complete. Ill see what I can do about getting photoshop, I will be able to draw much the same in there also?
Oh yes, and much easier I'm sure. It's very neat.
I have started changing the faction names and all the ´messages, and I haven't got any problems. I also asked black_draen for the symbols, so I can change the colors on the campain map. Just some questions: When I did the nations (non Rand era to start with) I had to leave two out, and I picked Mayene and Murandy. Was that right? And also, what will the leader of tar Valon be called? Amyrillin? Thats what I think would be the best. And the seante faction is called Nae'blis, right? And the trolloc clans have grey men as assasins, aiel knife hands, wise ones as diplomats, grey ajah for aes sedai, blue as spies, the shadow has ravens or rats?
I do this to get some change from the unit creating~:)
Myrddraal
02-13-2005, 21:11
Let me introduce a new member to the team: praetor, who will be helping with both 2D and 3D graphics.
Well thank you for admitting my Myrddraal. I hope I can prove to be a worthy addition to the team.
Think a short introduction would be appropriate I guess :)
Im currently residing in la France, Paris to be exact. No worries, I wasnt born French ~;) Im actually Belgian, not that it matters but euh...right. Im still attending university at the moment, being 20 and having to partially pay for my studies I earn a living as part-time photographer for various Parisian sportclubs and theatre companies. A year ago my girlfriend started on a fantasy model and I have been doing illustrations for her book ever since. When I saw this mod listed I figured; hey, why not contribute to a mixture of your favorite game and the best fantasy series ever! ~:)
again, too much blabla for a simple "hello", I seem to make a habbit out of that lately buut anyways, thanks for letting me join =P
Welcome praetor!
Ok, I found the colors for the countries on that lagpage instead, so I have finished them off, and has only Malkeir left. When I have that too I send it to you, Myrddraal. Tomorrow I will also give you a list on which faction that became wich wot nation, for unit editing and more. The only problem was what to call the sttlements belonging to Tar Valon, and I call them Aes Sedai Controlled* now, and I think thats the best solution. If any got a better, tell me:)
Black_Draen
02-14-2005, 14:49
Nice to have you here praetor ~:)
I sent the jpg-versions of the symbols I have done this far to you Andreas. Can you send the colours to me if I'm to make the battle-test version?
well, I read trough this rather long thread to update mysel on the current standing and progress of the mod.
I'll need some directions though as to what is expected of me.
Also, I was not yet able to log into the dev area of the website, the dialog box for user and pass just keep popping up even when I copy paste the login info I got from Myrddraal. ~:confused:
Black_Draen
02-14-2005, 18:56
hm, I believe we are in great need of models - we haven't got more than three or so.
And I know, the developers page isn't working - hopefully Myrddraal can fix it when he has time.
alright models. I can do that =P I'll do some preliminary sketching beforehand and post it up here. If approved I'll make a wireframe model.
Do we have a techtree of some sort online? I'll need to know what needs to be done first.
alright models. I can do that =P I'll do some preliminary sketching beforehand and post it up here. If approved I'll make a wireframe model.
Do we have a techtree of some sort online? I'll need to know what needs to be done first.
What we need is models of Sheinaran and Sladean troops first, to be able to set up a historical battle. We have the units done, so we only need models. For unit lists, check some page back. And, to have something to work from, check here
http://www.roaringstudios.com/ns/
Black_draen: I send you the faction files tomorrow.
CrownOfSwords
02-14-2005, 23:37
Welcome Praetor! Glad to have someone who knows about modeling, check a few pages back where there is a post of many pictures and such, ive done some rough draft drawings in paint (from lack of scanner :( ) on the units. Sorry for delay of the drawing of the Royal Saldean guard, this guy has been giving me the most difficulty on simply the concept of the man, im nearly done may be finished by tonight then Ill edit it into my post. :charge: -CoS
Myrddraal
02-15-2005, 18:09
I just checked out the dev area, it is working...
Make sure you put a capital D on Dev, its case sensitive
Yep, it's working for me too. And the page needs to be updated, praetor, isn't on the team list.
Also, the fact is that we still need the progress page for dev, what needs to be done, what have been done and who does what. Me, myself, is currently finishing up the factions, and will then continue with the units that are common for most countries. I also took the liberty to change the trolloc clans to those we have symbols for. I'm also looking into modelling, but it might take a whiel before I'm ready to do anything.
I promised to give you a faction list, and here it is:
{ST_JULII} Dha'vol
{ST_BRUTII} Ko'bal
{ST_SCIPII} Dhai'mon
{ST_SENATE} Nae'blis
{ST_MACEDON} Tear
{ST_EGYPT} Aiel
{ST_SELEUCID} Malkier
{ST_CARTHAGE} Amadicia
{ST_PARTHIA} Kandor
{ST_PONTUS} Shienar
{ST_GAULS} Tarabon
{ST_GERMANS} Arad Doman
{ST_BRITONS} Saldea
{ST_ARMENIA} Arafel
{ST_DACIA} Cairhien
{ST_GREEK_CITIES} Illian
{ST_NUMIDIA} Andor
{ST_SCYTHIA} Ghealdan
{ST_SPAIN} Tar Valon
{ST_THRACE} Altara
{ST_SLAVES} Rebels
Good for those doing units and that stuff:)
double due to datebase error. I still can't find the delete button~;)
okey I printed that faction list and checked the site with examples that was posted earlier. What I'll try is to work out a particular base model on paper for a certain faction. Once modelled they can serve as a base from which more specific faction models can be created.
Only problem is I am still not able to obtain done work rom our dev area, probably a typo in the login info that was send to me. If some one could send me a working set that'd be great :)
Black_Draen
02-15-2005, 21:43
I was just going to tell you about the trollock clans ~:)
Andreas: The files aren't working as they should - I have been trying to find the problem but the game isn't starting when I have your modded files replacing the old ones. Are you sure the five text-files are the only ones to be replaced?
black_draen: for the colors? They work for me, but it's three files, expanded.txt, shared.txt in text and descr_sm_factions.txt. If you mean the units, thats probably five files, but you cannot replace, just edit in the info in there into the game files. But wait with that release until after my sportsholiday (next week), and I will have changed some textures(for horses, and some colors.) This will only be until we have models, but it's better then the mix of colors we have now. And I will check the files this evening, and send them again if I find something wong.
Black_Draen
02-16-2005, 17:35
Ah ok, then I understand - it worked when I edited in it... It will probably be a few weeks until the test-version is done so its no real hurry. Sounds good about the textures and colours. I'll also edit a few textures so we get the right look at banners and so.
At the moment this is to be included:
=============
>Saldea
>Shienar
>Dha'vol Clan
>Ko'bal Clan
>Dhai'mon Clan
+ I will try to add a historical battle; The Battle of Tarwins Deep (not sure on what it is named in english)
praetor: If you want something to start on you could maybe do some Darkhounds or archer-trollocks (Ahf'frait trollocks)?
CrownOfSwords
02-16-2005, 18:54
Tarwin's Gap ~;)
Myrddraal
02-16-2005, 19:09
Its called Tarwins Gap. Praetor, if you want to work on the trollocs, I will send you the model we already have, all that needs to be done is to get rid of that wierd mace and make different armour and weapons for the different trolloc types. Trolloc Archers should be rubbish, as they are not natural bowmen. I think javelins would be better.
Black_Draen: Do we really need to include all the trolloc clans? They are the same anyway, and with the new patch multi-faction armies are supported. And I guessed that was the problem... have you looked at the colors? Are they ok?
And about models, I guess that we will not change the light horse models(a light horse looks pretty much the same for all:)), so I will to those textures in very good shape.
Maybe this battle is a chance to make a movie with the new movie maker?
And I will resume my work with the mod soon, hasn't worked since last week(I started my driving license lessons today, which decreased my free time very much, unfortunately). Still the common units I will work on
Edit: Scythed swords for trollocs, remember. And what bugs me with leaving them out(I think it should be done, but still) is that when they are used, they are effective, remember Perrins wound. But I agree anyway, leave them out and let them have javelins and the darkfriend bows.
Does anyone else remember Myrdraal posting this.
Myrdraal
I do not mean to complain but I will not be able to help until you send me the files.
Orb, you are very welcome. I don't suppose anyone else has a problem with it, so you can call yourself a member.
Black_Draen
02-16-2005, 22:42
Well, we need three trollock-clans for the campaign, and also for the battle of Tarwin's Gap (guess I need to get a few books in english soon...). I read in the first (first & second in swedish) book that all three clans are attacking in the battle.
Also they would be quite different, since each clan has their own "main-trollock". At least if we use the list that I suggested a few pages ago (now with changed trollock-names).
==> The Shadow
*** = Clan Trollocks; Dhai'vol, Ko'bal and Dhai'mon
The Band is led by a Trollock
The Fist is led by a Myrddraal
The Armoured is elite trollocks under a Myrddraal.
>>Clan Hold
>>Trollock Cloisters
Level 1: *** Band
Level 2: + Ahf'frait Band, Kno'mon Band
Level 3: + *** Fist
Level 4: + Ahf'frait Fist, Kno'mon Fist
Level 5: + Armoured ***
>>Oathbreaker's Circle
Level 1: Darkfriends Milita
Level 2: + Darkfriends Archers
Level 3: + Darkfriends Riders
Level 4: + Darksworn Champions
Level 5: + Dreadlords
>>Weaponsmith
+ 1/2/3/4/5 Light weapons
+ 0/0/1/2/3 Ranged Weapons
+ 1/2/3/4/5 Armor
(not sure about the numbers)
>>Shadowforger (require level 3 city)
Level 1: Myrddraals
>>Ritual Chamber (require level 4 city)
Level 1: Creatures of the Blight
Level 2: Darkhounds
>>Hanging Grounds
+10/15/20/30/40% Law
>>Breeding Pits
+ 1/2/3/4/5% Population Growth
>>Fighting Arena
+1/2/3/4/5 Experience
(this is getting a bit much to post but have anyone heard from TheDevil? He was going to do four symbols and send them to me but I haven't seen him in here for a long time)
CrownOfSwords
02-16-2005, 23:39
The Dev section really needs to be updated... along with the site
Myrddraal
02-17-2005, 01:16
I know I know, I'll try to get round to it....
I know all the trolloc clans were in tarwins gap, but I tought that it would be easier not to include all, and it would save some of the clans for the real relese.
And I have started editing the textures now, and I'm pretty pleased with the horses I've done, but it wasn't very hard:)
And Orb: I seem to remeber that, yes.
Black_Draen
02-17-2005, 14:04
But this isn't any release, just a test-version for the mod-members, or?
btw, anyone know how to remove factions from custom game? This since only 5 should be playable in the battle-test.
Ahh yes, it's only a test for mebers... But then it's unimportant to create the tarwins gap:P We don't need it, and it's pretty much work.
And for the other, you could ask at the blue lotus mod, they only have about 7 factions.
Its called Tarwins Gap. Praetor, if you want to work on the trollocs, I will send you the model we already have, all that needs to be done is to get rid of that wierd mace and make different armour and weapons for the different trolloc types. Trolloc Archers should be rubbish, as they are not natural bowmen. I think javelins would be better.
I could do with the model :). had to clean up my inbox first. a maximum of 4 messages ?
Black_Draen
02-17-2005, 20:10
Andreas: hm, you have a point. Anyway, I'll do Dha'vol Clan for a start, then we can see if there is any meaning in also doing the other two.
praetor: Sounds nice :-)
CrownOfSwords
02-17-2005, 20:36
Team I think we could work more efficiently if we all used Msn Messenger, quick file exchange and we could have discussions etc. Just an idea
-CoS ~:cheers:
Myrddraal
02-18-2005, 10:53
Hm, I don't mind, but I'm not online for very long often. Most of you know my email address.
Myrddraal
02-18-2005, 11:05
Guys I think we should make Tarwins Gap, polish it up, and release it as a demo, see if we can attract some fans, and maybe with a release, we would have more reson for our own subforum
Black_Draen
02-18-2005, 14:46
Myrddraal: Sure, sounds fun!
I'm soon done with the basic text-changing in the mod, Andreas did Saldea and Shienar and I'm soon done with the Dha'vol Clan. But if we are to include the other two clans too, we'll need more models (trollocks especially).
I managed to change the banner of the Dha'vol banner yesterday, here is a group of Myrddraals with a few Darkfriend Riders.
http://img221.exs.cx/img221/4813/screenshot16ko.jpg (http://img221.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img221&image=screenshot16ko.jpg)
EDIT: CoS: You can add me at MSN if you want to ~:)
Team I think we could work more efficiently if we all used Msn Messenger, quick file exchange and we could have discussions etc. Just an idea
-CoS ~:cheers:
Me and black_draen all ready does that, feel free to add me at yours ~;)
I have worked some with the common units, and changed some of the names for one: Heres the list:
Common units
Infantry
Peasants x new model?
Local Militia x new model?
Town Militia x new model?
County Militia x new model?
Levy Pikemen x
Pikemen x
Armoured Pikemen x
House Armsmen
Veteran House Armsmen
Peasant Archer
Archer
Crossbowmen
Cavalry
Mounted Militia
Light Horse
Mounted Armsmen (swords shield)
Noble Retainers
Mounted Crossbows
Those with X's I have done(I will probably do the rest this weekend), and I renamed some of the units (just took away all royal and all noble, I think that the royal units should be those of the country.)
And the new models thing means that I think that we do not need to make new models for those, I have changed the original textures, and I think that they are OK to use (all except the last will probably not be used very much anyway~;)).
And if it will be a release, I stick too that we should only have one clan included. Save some for the game, and it's very much work that isn't as important as other. and it looks nice, black_draen.
Myrddraal
02-18-2005, 19:10
Andreas, could you pm me with ur email?
k been working on a few art sketches of saldean soldiers. Gonna try and scan them later on today.
about the communication problem. how about an irc channel ? I can easily run one on one of my servers
I thought about the too, would be cool to have one, even if I suspect it would be empty often;) Still, working is much more effective if you can have direct contact with the person that you work with.
I tried making a texture of a saldean standar man and it went... very wrong. I just edited the texture for the banner, and nothing else, but when I tested he had his pants as banner, and his banner as pants. Weird.
well, isn't direct contact what IRC is all about =P ? besides, in a general chatroom everyone on the team can read chat, so everyone is up to date :)
well, isn't direct contact what IRC is all about =P ? besides, in a general chatroom everyone on the team can read chat, so everyone is up to date :)
on the sketches: doing some last drafts, I started modelling on the saldean footman, general model. If I remember correctly, saldeans wear their swords on their backs ? I added shields in my doodles, simply cause fighting trollocs with only a sword in your hands sounds like a really bad idea to me
No, it's shienarans that have them on the back, and no shields(two-handed swords). Saldeans have theirs in a belt, and slightly serpentined. Don't heard about shields, but that might be.
I'm done with all common foot troops (the peasant archers is a really cool idea, if they are meant tp be at first settlement level, since they give a bit more interesting peasntary fights). When I'm done with the cav. I send it to Myrddraal.
CrownOfSwords
02-20-2005, 10:18
Great, just sounds like we need some models! Good work. ~:cheers:
Hmm I have also went through your unitlist and added some so all playable countries have at least 4 units of their own, or at least that not every one else has. For example, I added sometihng I called "Order fo the Council" to Arad Doman, to represent some sort of army serving the merchant council. First I called it Council Guards, but I relized Illian already has those:) Anyway, I'm thinking of giving these new troops battle axes, to represent perrin.
And my planned 3ds max pessesion will take some more time before I have it.(strange langauge there ~:)).
Black_Draen
02-20-2005, 21:02
Andreas: You don't need to do the banner-textures; I'm doing them already - no idea with double-work ~;) btw, can you send the unit-textures to me too when you are done with them?
praetor: I have nothing against a chat-room, maybe its even easier than MSN...
About peasants; should we really include "peasants-units" at all? To see it realistic - a unit of peasants drafted into war becomes militia, or?
The only peasants units that I can think of, that should fit in, would be they who belong to The Prophet - fanatical farmers!
I have set up an IRC channel for our mod. Im currently standing in for a bot with one of my servers idling to prevent time-out. I'll add a decent Qbot later this week. This can bring is a little publicity, posting our channel in your signature draws attention, I know by experience that this can increase our fanbase significatly. besides a good dev team, we need people who actually want to play the mod too ~:)
our current location on irc will be :
/server irc.quakenet.org
#wotmodRTW
I picked quakenet cause it is a network with a lot of gamers on it.
The website does not appear to be working.
Also, how are we going to make the warders work. Maybe they could be used like war dogs, this means that the warders go into combat while the Aes Sedai sit back and hurl fireballs. I know it has been discussed a lot but no conclusion has been met so I thought I would suggest this.
Black_Draen
02-20-2005, 22:30
hm, the problem would be that the warders, when having attacked a target, would go on attacking until they died (in a weird berzerk-way) leaving the Aes Sedai unguarded.
Haven't got a better suggestion though...
Sephriel
02-21-2005, 15:23
hi,
@praetor: i have some trouble logging in. i cant find the server in the server list. can you help?
Sephriel
I thought that that would be a problem after I had posted that idea. I could not think of another way to make them work on two different stat lines. another problem is that you must(I think) have at least 2 dogs to 1 man so they would have to be green Ajah
Myrddraal
02-21-2005, 16:01
The easy answer is to make them as two seperate units...
Agreed, it's a better solution but not quite perfect
About the irc, my client can't find the server and direct me to another one, and that not very good since it do not be the correct one.
Black_draen: I know you're doing the standard textures, I just tried something, wich obviously didn't work. Too bad~;)
I'm done with the common units now, and I think we should at least keep the peasant archers, archers don't have to be trained very much before being sent in battle... But we could change the name to militia archers... Anyway, I tried to make the crossbows firing non-flammable ammo, but I couldn't do it. I tried to count them as javeliners, but then the range became restricted too a distance far to short. We will have to have them being able to shoot burning arrows, which I think is wrong, but otherwise it weren't any problems.
Since I want to continue making the specific units now I will have to start with making sketch for the general building structure, since I have filled my german unit list and will cause a crash if I ad more units to Arad Doman.
And this brings up another thing... the cultures, and how specific they will be. In my eyes, we have like five different cultures, the shadow, borderlands, aiel, seanchan and the innerlands. The innerlands will be the countries having this set of 17 units I finished today, and are pretty much the same in structure. The difference, if go by the RTW vanilla style, will be that the big difference between them will be the few units they have that is their own, and maybe the things we will have instead of temples. I do not like this. Maybe the bulk of buildings could be the same, but I think that we should at least name them differently depending on nation. For example, the tradebuildings for arad doman should have names connecting them to the Merchant Guilds, and so on. I also remember that Myrddraal wanted to make the unit region specific in appearance, something I think is great. but I think we should go further then that in making the factions different. One thing that I think would be a big improvement would be to make the armies on the camp. map more different then just colors on the cloak. Lets make a specific piece for each nation, so that the appearance of the model is like that we know from the books (two swords on the back of the arafellins, the shaved shienarans with a top-thing, veils on the taraboners and so on). This might sound like small things, but I think it would be very cool...
Sorry if this post was kinda unclear, but I hope you get my point.
And about Aes Sedai: I think that training of warders should be really rare, let them be the generals of the armies of Tar Valon, and we will have them but not in great numbers. I do not think we have ever heard about real armys with just bonded warders, except from the stories Rand talk about in the EoTW(Eye of the world, black_draen~;)... or Farornas Väg).
It is possible to not have fire arrows. see this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=43654)
Ahhh thanks, thats great.
Anyway, for some more wotish things... You know that the 24th this month is a big day right? The QoTW (question of the week) has been delayed this week to that date, and the wot encyclopedia had a news some days ago that something big was about to happen, as I have seen other sources say on Wotmania. Biggest since the day we got to know the next books name, and might even be bigger. Interesting. Doesn't touch us I guess, but it's fun to know.
the 24th Feb is also important because i finally get my laptop that day!
Myrddraal
02-22-2005, 09:45
Hang on hang on...
I think we should at least keep the peasant archers, archers don't have to be trained very much before being sent in battle... But we could change the name to militia archers...
Did I miss something? Whats wrong with peasant archers as a name, they aren't proffessionals. the words 'We should at least keep the peasant archers' suggests that I missed you guys disscussing getting rid of units?
Also about changing the name of royal units. I like the idea of having Royal Armsmen etc. It fits the description:
House Guards:
Although when a lord or lady goes to war it is the House Armsmen who form the core of their retinue, in times of peace soldiers are still needed to carry out onerous, and often dangerous duties, such as putting down riots and revolts and hunting bandits in the trackless wilderness. This unglamorous duty falls to men known as House Guards, little better than mercenaries in uniform. Many House Guards are drawn from the lower walks of life, most having been, before their recruitment, merchant's guards or even bandits themselves. However, amongst their ranks can also be found men who have retired from the House Armsmen due to old age or serious injury. These men are though, well-seasoned fighters, accustomed to skirmishing and small-scale engagements. However, their poor, ageing equipment, lack of proper armour, lack of discipline and experience of full-scale battle means that they are outclassed by regular battlefield soldiers.
House Arsmen:
Although nations are ruled by kings and queens, the land within them is divided into the estates of noble houses. Some of these, such as house Bryne in Andor are very small in size, but others, such as House Damodred in Cairhein own vast estates with huge revenues. Whatever their size, every House has a standing army of House Armsmen, and as vassals of the throne must contribute significant numbers of them to the Royal armies- These soldiers are well equipped, well trained professionals, disciplined and accustomed to large scale conflict. Their heavy armour, large shields and skill with their shortswords allows them to defeat lesser warriors such as peasantry, militia and pikemen.
Royal armsmen
When a monarch comes to power, he or she will want to ensure military superiority over arty contenders to the throne, namely other major houses. With this in mind monarchs usually create their own private armies drawn from the ranks of their House Armsmen. These men receive the best equipment, training and, crucially, wages. The fact that they are drawn from trusted House Armsmen combined with their excellent pay ensures their loyalty and a monarch will be certain to keep them close at hand in the eventuality of unrest or evil war.
Also whats wrong with having units called Mounted Nobles? They existed in MTW and I personally think are a good representation of the books.
Hang on hang on...
Did I miss something? Whats wrong with peasant archers as a name, they aren't proffessionals. the words 'We should at least keep the peasant archers' suggests that I missed you guys disscussing getting rid of units?
Black_draen wondered if we really should have them, and he have a point in that when you recruit a peasant, you give him at least some traing and he becomes militia.
Also about changing the name of royal units. I like the idea of having Royal Armsmen etc. It fits the description:
House Guards:
House Arsmen:
Royal armsmen
Are there house guards too^^ Nver saw them.
What wrong in toyal armsmen is that the royal troops are the specific uinits. I must say that from my point of view, the troops serving the king of Illian is the Companions, the Andoran queen have her Queens Guards and so on. Too add another royal armsmen seems... wrong. I will do the house guards now anyway.
Also whats wrong with having units called Mounted Nobles? They existed in MTW and I personally think are a good representation of the books.
Hmmm yes maybe we could have the mounted nobles, I counted them as royal... but they aren't I realize now.
Myrddraal
02-22-2005, 11:40
I don't know really, I personally think that the Royal Unit (i.e. Companions) serve whoever is monarch. The idea of the Royal Armsmen is that the ruler reinforces his own house, to secure his own position. You know the idea of each house providing their armsmen to the national army? Well Royal Armsmen are just those who are controlled directly by the Ruler, and so have better equiment etc.
Black_Draen
02-22-2005, 13:37
About the peasants; I believe many mods follow the Rome/Medieval set-up without thinking on it. But how realistic is it with peasant units at all (even if they are archers)? If someone fights in a war he is not a peasant but a warrior, or as in this case, a militia-soldier.
Andreas: Do you mind if I balance around with Shienar a bit? Yesterday I runned a test against a Shadow-army and they rode them down killing 1500 trollocks and darkfriend, losing 32 men. :charge:
Myrddraal
02-22-2005, 16:24
Have I got a copy of the stats? If not, can I have them?
By the way, I think that Trolloc stats should be very good, better than average troops, but they should have very low moral. The way to destroy a Trolloc army should be to break its moral. This would suit the books greatly as Trollocs are very good fighters, but if their general gets killed, or if they think they might not win, they are cowards at heart.
Myrddraal
02-22-2005, 17:29
Oh yeah sorry about the huge delay, but here is one of the files I've got, the others are too big to upload where I am now, but at the moment:
Region Names (http://82.68.81.226/david/WoT%20for%20Rome/Dev/WoT_regions_and_settlement_names.txt)
Same username and password
Black_Draen
02-22-2005, 19:09
Myrddraal: Sure, do you want just the unit-stats or should I send all the work that I have merged into the Battle-Test this far? The Battle-Test will soon be done, could need a few more models and unit-textures. I'll also add some more 2d-graphics - changing some more symbols. It will probably end at about 2-6 mb.
This far Shadow have lost all my test-battles against the Borderlanders - all battles have been lost with the Trollocks breaking and running. I'm tweaking the Trollocks attack-values and lowering the defense of several borderland units to give the Shadow a fighting-chance ~:)
atm
Dha'vol Band
Very low morale -> not led by a Myrddraal, horde-formation
Good attack but weak defense
Very cost-effective (as long as they don't run)
Dha'vol Fist
Almost Good Morale -> led by a Myrddraal, square-formation
a little better attack but same weak defense as band
Cost-effective
Armoured Dha'vol
Better morale than fist, led by a Myrddraal and moving in square-formation
Very good attack and acceptable defense (better armour and equpiment)Cost-effective
It's okay if you tweak the borderlands units, I didn't really know what to compare them with at that moment, but remeber that tweaking the price is also a very good way to do it. Just let me see them after, so I can see if it's something I wouldn't want to be changed. And lower the armour valus in first hans, so they get vulnurable for side and back attacks, defence second and shield last.
Today I have worked with constructing a tech tree for arad doamn, and the result was this: http://utbildning.mellerud.se/~s05/araddoman.htm
The colors is by tha way those appearing on the camp map. There are some questions in the bototm layer, that would be good if someone could answer.
And Myrddraal: After making that tech tree i agree that Royal Armsmen should be included, they fit in.
edit: Try to give them some sort of ranged troops, mybe small bands with ap bows. That would make up for a lot of problems, I think. They are very vulnurable to ap, as I the story I sent to you on msn proves.
edit2: I might be able to convince a friend of mine to play against me to balance it a bit too tomorrow. I'm not sure he will accept though, he likes infantry and I like cavalry and arrows, and usually I win with very much... but maybe;)
Myrddraal
02-22-2005, 20:00
Could I have the whole lot pls Draen. I'm sorry about the website, its causing more trouble than good, I put the current files on the old server. I think it would be best to move back to it, its slower, but it doesn't fail as much. I will try to update everything.
Andreas, I had a tech tree for the MTW version of WoT - TW I made. I'll upload that if I can.
BTW, I'm new irc, how do you work it? (I must sound like an ignorant idiot ~;))
Myrddraal
02-22-2005, 20:04
Oh and I forgot: Did the region names work alright? I've done some more work on the map I will upload it soon along with the new UI I've been working on. But I've had some problems, its seems that with the edited UI, the areas where black should be transparent are not working... It just comes up as a black splodge. I made a new egg timer which is the wheel of time turning, but it looks awful with a black square around it...
Could I have the whole lot pls Draen. I'm sorry about the website, its causing more trouble than good, I put the current files on the old server. I think it would be best to move back to it, its slower, but it doesn't fail as much. I will try to update everything.
Andreas, I had a tech tree for the MTW version of WoT - TW I made. I'll upload that if I can.
BTW, I'm new irc, how do you work it? (I must sound like an ignorant idiot ~;))
Do so, it might help with names and so. I still will go for personlizing the tech though.
I'm a fan of the WoT and i just wanted to say great work and i can't wait for the mod to be finished. I like the units you guys have come up with but i was thinking if it is possible to create a unit similiar to the ronin or whatever it was called from shogun. The one man unit that slaughted fools, and name it a blademaster. I'll let you guys figure out the nation allegiance and crap like that. Keep up the good work and don't quit, I'm looking forward to it too much. ~:)
Sorry again so soon but i just found this online http://www.memod.co.uk/http://www.memod.co.uk/
U might wanna try and get permission.
CrownOfSwords
02-23-2005, 07:52
Yes they sadly closed down memod, because they thought it would compete with their own upcoming games. Yet there are not upcoming WOT games for us to compete with, and I highly doubt Robert Jordan is against our mod in anyway im sure he is happy to have such devoted fans.
Also I got Adobe Photoshop playing around here is a preview of the quality I will be able to put into future concept art. I present an unfinished Sheniarian -
http://img236.exs.cx/img236/7666/sheinarian26ki.jpg
Keep up the good work team, looking forward to playing this beta!
Black_Draen
02-23-2005, 11:46
Still we should get permission - before our mod gets good enough to become a threat...
Khan48: There must be at least 6 units in each, and the unit number varies depending on the players setting. It's sad though, since if not we would have been able to create a warder and a Aes Sedai.
Myrddraal: I send the files to you later, I just need to take the flaming ability for crossbows away. I will send you: Arad Daman tech tree in webapge layout, finnishe quotes, faction names and colors, units. We need someone to write the small faction descriptions. I suck at coming up with such stuff.
Myrddraal
02-23-2005, 13:19
I'll write the faction descriptions. Thx for the Files Andreas. Draen sent me the battle test, just send me the stuff not included in that.
I've checked now with two other WoT mods. One of them is quite advanced. Neither have permission, and both said you don't need it.
Black_Draen
02-24-2005, 00:23
ok, I guess we simply can hope they won't care about us ~:)
I'll continue with the custom-battle now, right now I'm retexturing a few units; for example the Myrddraals and some of the darkfriends. I'm also finishing the last symbols - TheDevil seems to have disappeared so I'll complete his symbols myself.
btw; can anyone do the unit-descriptions for Saldea's and Shienar's units? Are there any to the MTW -mod?
I could try making some of the unit descrs, at least for the saldeans. I have made some horse textures, I'll send them to you some day soon.
Myrddraal
02-24-2005, 09:29
I still haven't got round to trying the battle test...
Life is too short...
BTW, how are the models going praetor?
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