View Full Version : A question for all the experts
FearofFucy
08-03-2002, 01:00
Just wannted to know what are the most common mistakes a newbie do???
1.Dont know how to group...
2.dont know how to attack or march in
one formation....
What else id there???
Fast Death
08-03-2002, 01:05
I am no expert, but I have had some battles turn ugly because of my lack of temperance.
FearofFucy
08-03-2002, 01:16
am looking for some more information about this for a website...
Splitting up forces (a mistake I use myself)
Charging Archers into battle lol
Using cavalry against spearmen
What I meant to say with these, is that some dont even use these units they just charge them in, WITHOUT using other units first, and sometimes splitting up your forces can be a BIG mistake
[This message has been edited by NARF (edited 08-02-2002).]
[This message has been edited by NARF (edited 08-11-2002).]
splitting up forces is not a mistake, far from it!
Sjakihata
08-03-2002, 02:58
Thanks Rokkaku, I was about to burst out my self.
I think to split up forces, is a part of "the versatile army".
Newbies dont put guns in ranks of 3 or 2, they have the tendancy to panic when cav is put on their flanks and if unbalanced enough they will rush you.
and..charging archers into battles where your line is wearing thin can mean the difference narf.
[This message has been edited by LordTed (edited 08-04-2002).]
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
08-03-2002, 03:39
Ted is right guys...
Archers after they have used up all their arrows are useless some guys think.
But no wait...If your defending and ur line is weak send them in h2h(hold alt for the sword to appear as the cursor) to stregten the line.
Always helps, or even a late-flanker. Can be the difference between winning and losing, but must have relatively high honour.
But it was NARF who said it not Rokkaku just before anything gets out of hand.
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Jaguara-Spoken like a TRUE SPAMMER Toda!
No Fear Legend.
Not a on-line expert, just a reason for mistakes made by those familiar with battle strategies/concepts when playing on-line.
Panic, feeling of too much to do caused by over use of the pause button in Single player.
Remedy/prevention limit pause button use in single player. Plan as you play!
http://www.akaoni.netfirms.com/man_head_spinning_md_wht.gif
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http://www.akaoni.netfirms.com/newbie.gif
Biggest mistake a newbie makes is not knowing what they want to do when the game starts.
Other mistakes include:
- Sloppy setup
- Inability to react well under pressure
- Overreliance on heavy cavalry in low koku games
- Not knowing they can reduce honor to stretch their budgets
- Not saying "GAH!" at the start of the game
- Not using wedgies properly
- Stereotyping the human player as just another dumb AI
- Arrogance (like claiming they will mop the floor with your head, only to be found unworthy of even becomming Ashigaru doup...)
- Not saying "GAH!" at the start of the game
- Not knowing how to talk in game to his allies
- Proves he is tactically sterile during battle
GAH!
Krasturak
08-03-2002, 08:52
Gah!
... failing to say 'Gah!' at the start of the battle.
Even experienced Shogunites fail at this crucial moment.
... failing to say 'Gah!' during the battle.
You should reward your opponent with 'Gah!' when your Taisho routs or is killed. You should also 'Gah!' to claim the victory when you kill or rout an opponent's Taisho.
... overlapping his troops over an ally's troops.
Gah! Bad! Gah! Never ever do this. Arrange the forces correctly.
... failing to communicate intentions to allies.
Gnish! Always talk to allies! Gnish!
... moving single units at a time.
Gnash! Learn to group units! Gnash!
... paying too much attention to the ranged fight.
Gni! The battle will be won or lost by soldiers in direct contact with the enemy. Gni!
... asking the wrong people for advice.
Hoql! Find worthwhile people to act as instructors. There are many veteran players who will share their knowledge. Hoql!
... getting involved with Clans before they are ready.
Erak! Clans can be bad for you. Be yourself, find Clan later. Not important at first. Erak!
... hosting innappropriate maps.
Daxn! Castle 3c again! Oh no! Not only will people avoid you, you will learn nothing this way, which will deprive you of a excitement and glory later. Daxn!
... annoying other players.
Gah! The best way to join the communitry is to be respectful of the other people, and to give them entertainment as well as your best game. You'll find some of the best people online in Shogun, and you'll find a reward when you explore their thoughts and personalities. Even Vanya is a good guy. Gah!
Kraellin
08-03-2002, 12:44
top ten newbie mistakes:
1. playing magyar khan
2. playing kocmoc
3. playing amp
4. thinking that elmark is 'tactically retreating"
5. facing the wrong direction during setup and charging!
6. facing the right direction during setup and charging!
7. expecting to win
8. expecting to lose
9. not taking out insurance before battles
10. forgetting to get a nike contract before battles.
K.
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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
JeRrYgArCiA
08-03-2002, 12:59
Let'see, I think i'm still a newbie, but,
- Not playing me for easy honour, i suck
- Thinking gaining honour gains you respect
- Ignoring/not knowin what 4 Max no Ashi means
- not adding honour to their men.
-Jerry
Best tips for newbie's r
1. playing magyar khan
2. playing kocmoc
3. playing amp
Ply the Best is the way forward,u will learn much this way.Yes u will loose,but watch how they move and attack u http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif
It will surely improve ur game!
Not a Mistake IMO
NinjaKilla
08-03-2002, 14:41
Yeah 'Ctrl+A' is the obvious one, with 'T' not far behind.
Other things not mentioned already (and I'm mainly talking STW):
1) Thinking yari cav is indestructable and running them around on their own shouting "Tally-ho!"
2) Using just 5 high honour units in a 6000k game.
3) Not knowing that Ctrl + left click and drag deploys ur army a lot quicker.
4) Attacking your guns face on with single units at a time.
5) Picking naginata and/or ashiguru.
6) Camping with back to red-zone; defending corners!!!
All I can think of for now.
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
the most mistakes of newbies, imo....
1. they dont read the manuel
2. so they dont know any keys
3. they played the SP-campain, and now they come and do theyr 1 point attacks
4. they dont know the bonusses
all together they know nothing, but important is, they dont know how this engine works, i trained guys wich didnt know that u get bonusses if u fight downhill, they realy thougth thats an 2d game...
they never heard from a game where u get bonusses like charge or double of units...
i dont think thats grouping is the important thing to know nether to know to move in 1 formation... they just dont know how the engine works and thats theyr prob!
i always explained such guys, what happen if u double unit or if u fougth downhill showed them how to move units fast and efficient.
they dont know how this honour effect the stats of the units, some guys dont use all koku... dont know that 1th unit is gen...
many things, so let them do an easy example... u take 2 units and he use maybe 10... now let him bring always just 1 unit... maybe u come till unit 6 ot 7 than 1 of ur unit will run...but this example give them an feeling and just the feling is important, they see that this insnt an acrade game, that u can win with less units, and just the skill decide...
...just my opinion....
koc
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Grey Wolves (http://www.totalwar.club.tip.nl/)
ShadeWraith
08-03-2002, 18:51
Reinforcing failure......when isolated or poorly deployed units are getting chopped some new players will pour more units into a poor situation in an attempt to "rescue" them. I suppose its a natural thing to do, its much harder to write them off and attempt to consolidate your remaining forces.
Wraith
I like this thread too http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
don't play always with the same army. For each map u have to choose a different one
GAH!
Newbies should play with all naginata and ashigaru units only at first. If they can do so and score many victories, they they will have proven their might and shed their newbieness. At least until it comes time to try something else.
Only experienced newbies should resort to useing the Wet Gunny Wedgie Army of Doom. This tends to reward them with easy wins that require no tactical thought whatsoever, and in so doing, restricts their cognitive/tactical growth. Use this army only as a last resort! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif (ie, when playing magy, koc or amp online for your first game http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif It won't work on Vanya http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif ...)
GAH!
Krasturak
08-09-2002, 00:20
Gah!
New players should also be aware that learning the game will take a long time.
Gah!
Dionysus9
08-09-2002, 03:18
Here is a clip out of an old thread (http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003624.html)
Some signs you might be a newbie:
If you don't have the map: Ob Horselands you are probably a newbie.
If you don't line up your muskets when you setup on a flat map, you are probably a newbie.
If you don't know that "T is for Talk" you are definately a newbie.
If you host competitive 5 player games with 43333 koku, you are a newbie.
If the only way you can win is by defending a mountain, you are a newbie.
If you ignore all of your allies requests for support, you are probably a newbie.
If you can't move your entire army as a group, you are a newbie in my book.
If you rush in the first 10 seconds of the game you might just be a newbie. If you then complain that your allies left you out to dry (because they didn't follow your rediculous charge) then you are a newbie.
If you don't know who AmpMortog is, you are a newbie in my book.
If you take all of one unit type, you are probably a newbie.
In short, if you can't beat me-- you are a newbie.
Well, not knowing [t] for chat definitely defines a newbie. I know one is newbie by the way his control his army. Choice of army may be one but I know many veterans pick bad army for the challenge. Not helping an ally may be his decision, so can't fault him as a newbie.
MaJeStIcKoKeNo
08-10-2002, 00:27
When your ally just sits on the top of a hill and you and your clanmate ask him to rush, and he sends 2 yari cav units against yari sams, then leaves his entire (honour 2) army on top of a hill when we are attackers.
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-MajesticKokeno
of the Majestic Ryouko Clan
he must be on a very high and nice mountain http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
LittleGrizzly
08-10-2002, 13:00
when ur fighting 2 good attackers and as u fight 2v1 (not doing a bad job of it) he sits an watches... then when they're tired smaller force arrives he gets slaughtered!!
theforce
08-10-2002, 16:12
The most idiotic thing a newbie can do is to take 16 guns in heavy rain, turn them so that u can hit their flanks and change their formation to loose formation and to let you charge with cav after he has done that http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
http://www.dedicatedgaming.com/~angelsofdarkness
youssof_Toda
08-10-2002, 18:09
Most common is that they don't know they can deploy their units themselves as an attacker (which is not possible in SP campaign)
shingenmitch2
08-12-2002, 18:54
Quote Originally posted by Krasturak:
Gah!
... paying too much attention to the ranged fight.
Gni! The battle will be won or lost by soldiers in direct contact with the enemy. Gni!
[/QUOTE]
LOL Krast, is this before or after your 10 muskets whittle the army down to 5 men per unit?
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Wrath of God
08-13-2002, 00:23
After reading your posts, I believe, as a Newbie myself, that I will probably not be able to play this game if I should expect to be ridiculed for not knowing things. The posts are so critical of newbies, it's remarkable.
In comparison, for example, I happen to belong to an Anno 1602 forum, and we experienced players are very kind and helpful to newbies. When I was a newbie in that game, the pros gave me invaluable tips and answered basic questions politely and helpfully. After a few weeks, I became proficient. I have been playing strategy games for years, and believe me, I have never seen such complex interfaces as the past couple of years. Shogun, European Wars, Europa Universalis--they are all quite difficult in comparison to earlier game designs. Somehow, the game complexity has permeated the interfaces, and it is now quite difficult to learn a game in an hour or two.
Some of you may have forgotten how difficult it can be learning a new strategy directly from the manual. And, (yes, Sister Perpetua, I know I am not supposed to begin sentences with conjunctives like "And"), it is hard to play with the manual in your lap.
Furthermore, one might ask why a game would be programmed so you need a manual to learn how to play? A manual should be for occasional reference. If I owned a game company, I would force my designers (under threat of loss of stock options) to program games that would be easy to learn. Isn't the real challenge conceptualizing a good strategy and employing good tactics rather than mastering the stupid interface?
In this game, the tutorial requires a vast amount of time because of the video/graphics. One can't be expected to read the manual in bed at 11:00 p.m. and then next play the game 7:00 p.m. the next day with any hope of effective learning. So what if we newbies don't know a know a Dojo from a Mojo? Or as we Italo-Americans say in Rhode Island, a "Mo-Mo." (A Mo-Mo is a moron, an idiot, a big lout.)
You guys might cut us newbies a break and try to put yourself in our cheap straw sandals for a moment. I want to learn to play this game, and I'll bet once I do, I will be a whatever the Japanese call the Don!
shingenmitch2
08-13-2002, 00:56
Wrath,
If you look at the post, he's obviously looking to build a website aimed at helping newbies. My understanding is that this a collection of pointers for newbies and everyone here is simpling listing the most common errors, and making a joke or 2 in the process.
I think you will find that once online, if you are polite, most people are very willing to help out newbies, give them tips etc... since this is a very difficult game to master.
ShadeWraith
08-13-2002, 13:20
Yep, I believe everyone is looking forward to an influx of new players (and some old ones coming back)when MTW is released.After all without new players the game would stagnate or die and I dont believe anyone of us wants that. In my experience people on these boards and in game are very helpful...but also like to have fun, so please dont take any comments personally. The fact is we were all new at some stage, and Im quite sure most of us still remember that http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Wraith
FearofFucy
08-14-2002, 19:42
Thanks guys for all your input.
The thread was just there to get more info of the most commond mistakes.
So far from what I have heard the website I was building already helped some ppl.
Fucy
Quote Originally posted by Fearoffucy:
...So far from what I have heard the website I was building already helped some ppl.
Fucy[/QUOTE]
GAH!
Authoring the "Newbienomicon" is a perilous duty...
Authoring the "Newbienomicon" is a perilous duty...
The Gah!spel of The Wolf ought to be interesting. Other faves:
The Gah!spel of Fear
The Gah!spel of Rage
The Gah!spel of Buddha
The Gah!spel of Vanya
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
GAH!
[This message has been edited by Vanya (edited 08-14-2002).]
Dionysus9
08-15-2002, 02:43
Ok, ok, for all you newbies reading this post, and on behalf of the entire Shoggy community:
WELCOME TO TOTAL WAR, WE ARE HAPPY TO HAVE YOU ABOARD!
Now,
Please add to my list:
If you are overly sensitive and unable to take a joke, you are probably a newbie.
lol
I know what you mean, Wrath, we are a little hard on newbies, but it's all in good fun. Rest assured, once your newbie status wears off the real torture/maiming will begin.
First of all, not many new players even know about this message board -- let alone utilize it. It is normally frequented by experienced players. I just figure any new player who has the wherewithall to find this forum, sign up for it, and actually post has his shit together, and won't take offense at a little joking around. I'd advise everyone in this community to develope a thick-skin...newbies especially. There is nothing to get upset or offended about, we are just shooting the shit. Dont get us wrong-- WE LOVE NEWBIES they keep the game going.
Second, everyone who's posts (above) appear to be critical of new players IS also very supportive of newbies and helps them out regularly...."get the patch, www.org., (http://www.org.,) dont fight compet games you will regret it later, maps are available at .org, people dont like 3v4 games, etc. etc." are all familiar sayings around the game rooms. It is VERY rare to see a Shoggy player actually harass a known-newbie.
Finally, if a little joking around scares away a few new players -- so be it. They will not last long in this community anyway. Multiplayer Shoggy (and soon MTW) are highly competitive games. "Shit talking" is nearly obligatory in most cases, and it certainly adds to the excitement of battles for me. If I have to walk on eggshells to avoid offending people, I'd rather they just hit the road to begin with.
I have NEVER seen a new player asks for help or advice and be turned down by ANY long-time player. Not once. More often I see new players ignore offers of advice/help.
I applaud FUCY and his newbie friendly page. WELCOME NEWBS!
ShadesWolf
09-11-2002, 17:40
** Fearoffucy *
Did you create the site, you were talking about, if So Can we have to URL.
I plan to close this thread on 15/9/2002 and then move it to the archive http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Krasturak
09-11-2002, 20:39
Quote Originally posted by Dionysus9:
Rest assured, once your newbie status wears off the real torture/maiming will begin.[/QUOTE]
Gnash! Torture! Gnash!
Gnish! Maiming! Gnish!
Gah! Cut heads off! Gah!
Assuming we are talking multi-player here.
Then I would say the most common mistake is the belief that you have found the perfect undefeatable army.
We have seen it all.
Massed WM's
Massed High honour YA's
Massed HC's
Bottom line is that if you keep playing the same army every battle you become predictable and in STW every unit has its counter unit.
'Know your enemy'
Sooner or later someone will spot your weakness and give you a damned good thrashing.
Remember one guy who always played massed low honour WM's. Creamed him good over and over again took him several battles to finally get the point.
(Oh! second most common mistake. Not checking the terrain before accepting the challenge)
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Didz
Fortis balore et armis
ShadesWolf
09-20-2002, 12:02
Very good point
Over time tactics and armies change
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