Gamespy critique on Weak AI

[fastspawn]

I don't know whether this is true or not, because i don't have the game yet.

According to gamespy, the AI is weak. it is all fine and dandy if it is the enemy AI that is weak, coz u can just handicap urself by bringing less troops, but apparently, your reinforcements, which are AI controlled are silly too.

The reviewer said he lost 3 generals in a single battle because of this weak AI.

If this happens, its a real shame, ain't it, considering how fine the game is turning out to be. I hope they manage to release a patch whereby your own generals when controlled by AI, will escape most of the time.

[Basileus]

This can happen especilay in large battles, i lost a good general aswell when the AI was assisting me in a battle..lets hope they can fix it in a patch

[Jeanne d'arc]

I dont mind him getting killed in a fierce battle when no options are left, but i do mind when he gets killed in a stupid way not suited for a army general.

[discovery1]

If your reinforcements aren't lead by a family member, they are under your control when the enter, yes? At least that's what happen when I assaulted Sparta.

[Ldvs]

If your reinforcements aren't lead by a family member, they are under your control when the enter, yes? At least that's what happen when I assaulted Sparta.

It'd be a very good news, I didn't intend to put two members of the same family in one stack anyway after what I had heard of how the AI behaved stupidly with reinforcements.

[Tamur]

Yep, they are all under your control if you've only got one family member (or no family members) in the battle. And agreed, the AI seems pretty foolish for the most part --- though it is fun if you've got better numbers, and the AI has control of the larger of your two armies! The AI just charges the enemy, and you're free to flank the enemy.

That is, unfortunately, the main situation in which it's nice to have AI control happen.

[Oaty]

If you have a stack of 10 units under 1 general and another 10 units in another stack with a general. They will all be under your command. the only difference is you can deploy your 1 general whereas the other general willl come on as reenforcements and will be a bit aways from the main battle for a while.

But if 1 of those stacks has 11 units in it with or without a general it will be controlled by the A.I.

[Plaxx]

I don't know Oaty...I sent my main army under my faction heir to lift a siege of one of my towns. I had a family member (general) in the town with just three town watch units while my relief army had 10-12 good quality units.

When the battle started I was attacking from the south towards the enemy in the north. The general led his men out of the town, marching in formation from the southeast. Unfortunately, because he and his bodyguard are on horesback, their walking/marching speed was much faster than the infantry/town watch. I had my men in perfect ambush formation in the treeline, but had to charge ahead to try and save my general from marching right into the enemy.

Too late! He and his loyal bodyguard marched right into the enemy, were cut down, and his town watch fled the field.

I had no control over my reinforcing general. The amount of units does not matter: pg 69 in the manual: "A friendly army that's led by a general will be independent and under computer AI control during the battle. You won't be able to issue orders to units in that army."

This is the only time since I have gotten the game that I let this type of "reinforcement" happen. Since the AI lets the general get waaaaaaaay ahead of his men, I don't think I will let the "AI" control my units anymore!

The best thing to do is have reinforcements led by a non-general, then you DO have full control over the units. ~:cool:

[DisruptorX]

The AI is utterly horrid. Then again, the only tactic i've seen them use is a massive cavalry charge. It is completely unbeatable, so I just started doing the same thing to them in response. ~D

[Tamur]

Agreed, the frontal cavalry charge is the AI's only tactic, it seems. However...


...massive cavalry charge. It is completely unbeatable...

it is beatable, I've done it seven or eight times now. Put your units in a deep formation, make them stand still with their shields to the fore, and those horses will not break them. Even one-valour Hastati can weather a head-on cavalry charge. Flank or rear, and your unit will be destroyed, but head on if they're ready they'll weather it and the cavalry will get mired in your formation and taken down, unless they've got much better armour.

[MiniKiller]

need patch for comp ai ally they suck i lost 3 out of 4 battles cause of their stupid moves

[Red Harvest]

Biggest problem is that it is an uber cavalry game. They swirl about like a bunch of schooling fish after a kilo of cocaine has been dumped in the water. As soon as they flank a unit somewhere, it routs--immediately. Then everyone nearby routes. I'm usually not into modding unit stats, but this time, I think I'm going to have to mod everything. Of course, sometimes my cav routs when it has units on either side of it (without making contact.)

I agree, right now the game is cavalry (or elephant) rush. Forget formations and historical use of units. Bring lots of cav and let loose the dogs/horses of war. Playing as Carthage will be interesting as the phalanx won't stand a chance vs. the cav.

Oaty, you don't get control of armies with another general (family member) in charge, only "captains."

The enemy (or allied) general suicide charge is back...

[nokhor]

i had a 5 star general besieging a settlement. next turn i brought up a small reinforcements under a captain (no stars) and i placed them next to, but not into my general's stack. that turn the besieged sally forth and attack my captain with his much smaller relief force. thats fine with me, since i put them there, but in the ensuing battle, i had to use my small captain force to play obstruction to the much bigger besieging force because my 5 star general (AI controlled) is charging on horseback way ahead of his reinforcing troops. its the old suicidal daimyos problem from shogun. i would much rather have had my captain's force get obliterated with no reinforcements, than have my 5 star coming to my aid by getting skewered.

[Red Harvest]

i had a 5 star general besieging a settlement. next turn i brought up a small reinforcements under a captain (no stars) and i placed them next to, but not into my general's stack. that turn the besieged sally forth and attack my captain with his much smaller relief force. thats fine with me, since i put them there, but in the ensuing battle, i had to use my small captain force to play obstruction to the much bigger besieging force because my 5 star general (AI controlled) is charging on horseback way ahead of his reinforcing troops. its the old suicidal daimyos problem from shogun. i would much rather have had my captain's force get obliterated with no reinforcements, than have my 5 star coming to my aid by getting skewered.

I've had the same thing happen. My solution: I reloaded the save from the previous turn and "fixed" it. It should give me the option of which commander to be! Same will happen if you are trying to set up a two army attack.

[slackker]

sigh i already ordered the game..and this looks so annoying...thinkin of cancellin my order... :juggle2:

[MiniKiller]

no no dont cancel no way lol no no haha

but i hope a patch does fix the teamate ai. i bust threw the gates with 27 of my cav (not a fam member,) chasing routing archers. I took the gate so they could come in (Relif force of 400 men) but nope they just ran around the wall instead.

[slackker]

no no dont cancel no way lol no no haha

but i hope a patch does fix the teamate ai. i bust threw the gates with 27 of my cav (not a fam member,) chasing routing archers. I took the gate so they could come in (Relif force of 400 men) but nope they just ran around the wall instead.

LOL ~:joker:
so is there any surefire way to control ur reinforcements?? juz dun hav a general in it and u r free to control it??
i need confirmation!! if its true..guess its juz 1 general per "zone"...but if this is the case, the only general's command rating only applies to the the stack he is in rite?? or all the armies in the zone?

answers! i need answers!! ~:confused:

[Colovion]

I hate the AI. The reinforcements are so worthless that I have to make sure that I either defeat the enemy before the AI gets there or that there isn't reinforcments near the battle so that I don't even have to deal with it.

My brother was fighting a huge decisive battle vs Carthage. They had 1.5 stacks, he had 2. He started the battle and his AI controlled reinforcements are attacked by Carthage. every man was slaughtered in that army of his. His AI controlled army did a whopping 7 kills!!! The victorious army of Carthage finished with that army and then came over and totally demolished his army.

I really hope that the AI doesn't turn out to be something that was a good idea but totally fell short of any expectations whatsoever. I'll sit here and hope.

[Duke John]

It is interesting that AI controlled armies that are owned by the player always seem to lose vs the AI armies, or so it seems from your post. I mean if it's AI vs AI you would at least expect a 50-50 chance of winning/loosing. If the AI is really stupid then that chance would still be 50-50, so I think that you are looking at the wrong reason. Was your AI general of the same quality as the AI opponents one? Or perhaps the player AI is dumbed down to make the game harder, but a dumbed down doesn't provide a more challenging army, it just becomes irritating.

[DisruptorX]

I agree, right now the game is cavalry (or elephant) rush. Forget formations and historical use of units. Bring lots of cav and let loose the dogs/horses of war. Playing as Carthage will be interesting as the phalanx won't stand a chance vs. the cav.



Actually, if you don't allow them to flank you, Phalanx will slaughter cavalry, infantry, or elephants in seconds. Yes, Elephants vs Pikemen = dead elephants. I was playing as Pontus and stuck a unit of pikemen in my caste gate, they slaughtered over 50 chariots and over 100 cavalry, who just touched the pikes and died horrible deaths. Phalanx is god.

[Colovion]

It is interesting that AI controlled armies that are owned by the player always seem to lose vs the AI armies, or so it seems from your post. I mean if it's AI vs AI you would at least expect a 50-50 chance of winning/loosing. If the AI is really stupid then that chance would still be 50-50, so I think that you are looking at the wrong reason. Was your AI general of the same quality as the AI opponents one? Or perhaps the player AI is dumbed down to make the game harder, but a dumbed down doesn't provide a more challenging army, it just becomes irritating.

No - he had his best General leading that AI army and the enemy army had a family member leading it who had no command. It SHOULD have been a perfect victory with my brothers army facing the enemy downhill. To the left of my brothers army was his AI controlled one down the hill and facing a forest which seperated the enemy army from his AI controlled one. It was basically aright angle with the enemy in the center. His AI army charged in through the trees (led by the cav and his best General) the cav charged foolishly right at the elephants, mucked about - got slaughtered. Just then his infantry was showing up to begin fighting as his General got taken down. That AI army fled immediately and every single man on that army was slaughtered.

[Sethik]

I find the navies are especially weak AI-wise. I block several ports and the navies barely do anything. I once had a fleet of 4 Biremes(sp?) and went around sinking single Carthi ships. Problem was there was more than a DOZEN single ships just floating around north Africa. Instead of grouping them all together, they waited to build a huge fleet.

Dogs of War do rock though, especially against Gauls who wear no armor. And I disagree with the Cav rush. I was defending against the Greeks in a siege and they had around 6 units of light lancers, a Gen's Cav:charge:, and some pikemen. I had 3 units of town militia and two hastai. They were slaughtered. After they broke the gate i just positioned the hastai on their flanks with the townsmen taking the brunt of their charge. It was a slaughter. It turned into a giant clump of confused horseman with my units attacking from all sides.

Also if you're playing with the Romans shouldn't Cav be your worst enemy before you can build Tiarii? IRC Cav's massacre swordsman.

[Colovion]

I have also notices that slight flaw with the AI not bunching units. This isn't just naval fo rme as I see the Gauls with dozens of small stacks of troops being thrown away instead of grouping together into a cohesive unit - in which they would be hard ot defeat.

They also very rarely - if ever - have Generals leading them - I mean I've seen a 3/4 stack of troops being led by a captain and teh General right next to that one on teh campaign map with 3 units to his stack and they didn't even attack together.... lame.

[Kraxis]

Fear oh fear...

I really hope something went wrong somewhere and the allied AI didn't get the proper commands imbedded in it. It certainly sounds as if the enemy AI is vastly better while the allied AI is something we have seen in the demo, which in turn has been claimed by the devs to not act up to specs.

[d6veteran]

I have seen some bad AI when the computer is controlling *mmy* units. However I have been pretty impressed with the enemy unit AI. I'm playing on hard battles and the enemy knows how to flank and which units to use for specific roles. The enemy also knows when to regroup and try something else.

[Red Harvest]

Actually, if you don't allow them to flank you, Phalanx will slaughter cavalry, infantry, or elephants in seconds. Yes, Elephants vs Pikemen = dead elephants. I was playing as Pontus and stuck a unit of pikemen in my caste gate, they slaughtered over 50 chariots and over 100 cavalry, who just touched the pikes and died horrible deaths. Phalanx is god.

Nice in theory. Doesn't work in practice except when the AI does a suicide rush into the front of a phalanx, or if you have a gate/bottlneck. The other 99 times the phalanx is flanked. I even have had a "suicide daimyo" charge kill one of my phalanx units...they swirled around its flanks after the initial head on. That was the last mercenary hoplite I bought.

I wiped out a nearly full stack hoplite army using only half a dozen round shield cav and two missile units. What a slaughter. I lost about a dozen men. This was on "very hard."

[Hamburglar]

I really don't trust the Friendly AI


The Senate was attacking the Gauls with about 400 men. I was reinforcing them with about 1200 men.


The Gauls had about 1800.


My reinforcements arrived immediately, just a bit of distance behind the Senate army. What did the Senate do? Immediately charge straight at the enemy and get utterly slaughtered.


I figure if they're outnumbered and they have 1200 friendly troops just 3 minutes away they could wait a few minutes for my guys to get there. I had everyone sprinting full speed and I didn't get there in time to save them (partly because battles go by so damn fast....)

[Sir Robin]

I have not run into this per se.

I have had idiot reinforcements but I've always used them as a distraction.

Defensively I keep my troops in single large formations. While I might go to an allies aid I still bank on having to win the battle myself.

They are not always idiots but I don't let myself expect anything out of them to begin with.

Offensively I make sure I am hitting them from opposing sides.

This way I can usually count on my enemy getting distracted as I take them apart.

[DisruptorX]

Nice in theory. Doesn't work in practice except when the AI does a suicide rush into the front of a phalanx, or if you have a gate/bottlneck. The other 99 times the phalanx is flanked. I even have had a "suicide daimyo" charge kill one of my phalanx units...they swirled around its flanks after the initial head on. That was the last mercenary hoplite I bought.

I wiped out a nearly full stack hoplite army using only half a dozen round shield cav and two missile units. What a slaughter. I lost about a dozen men. This was on "very hard."

That's why I now just sit on my behind and let them come to me. I place my pike phalaxes in a semicricle, so that there are no gaps. If the computer actually attempts to go all the way around, my cavalry flank them easily. I have yet to lose a battle this way, though it makes them very time consuming.

I don't use that tactic with the romans, for obvious reasons (no pikes)

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

They swirl about like a bunch of schooling fish after a kilo of cocaine has been dumped in the water.
ROTFLMAO :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

After reading this, I almost topled my chair!!! :grin:


Biggest problem is that it is an uber cavalry game. As soon as they flank a unit somewhere, it routs--immediately. Then everyone nearby routes. I'm usually not into modding unit stats, but this time, I think I'm going to have to mod everything. Of course, sometimes my cav routs when it has units on either side of it (without making contact.)

I agree, right now the game is cavalry (or elephant) rush. Forget formations and historical use of units. Bring lots of cav and let loose the dogs/horses of war. Playing as Carthage will be interesting as the phalanx won't stand a chance vs. the cav.
I can only agree on this point concerning the demo, since I don't have RTW. But in the demo you're right. Cavalry is much, much more powerfull then in MTW and basically rules the game. Strange that this happens, when one considers that, in Medieval times (not late period), the battlefield rulling military units were the Knights. That didn't happened in Ancient times. So, MTW and RTW are both going against History. :sad:

[andrewt]

I really don't trust the Friendly AI


The Senate was attacking the Gauls with about 400 men. I was reinforcing them with about 1200 men.


The Gauls had about 1800.


My reinforcements arrived immediately, just a bit of distance behind the Senate army. What did the Senate do? Immediately charge straight at the enemy and get utterly slaughtered.


I figure if they're outnumbered and they have 1200 friendly troops just 3 minutes away they could wait a few minutes for my guys to get there. I had everyone sprinting full speed and I didn't get there in time to save them (partly because battles go by so damn fast....)

Sounds like a real Roman army.

General: How many do they have?

Bodyguard: They outnumber us 10:1. We need to wait for reinforcements.

General: If we wait, the other guy will get the glory. I want to be Consul, not him. Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaarge!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SpencerH]

If you have a stack of 10 units under 1 general and another 10 units in another stack with a general. They will all be under your command. the only difference is you can deploy your 1 general whereas the other general willl come on as reenforcements and will be a bit aways from the main battle for a while.

But if 1 of those stacks has 11 units in it with or without a general it will be controlled by the A.I.

I sent a force of 2 units of equites to aid a besiged city. As the battle started I was in control of the equites, leaving my family member reinforcement and 6 other units in the hands of the AI. I quit to desktop as soon as my general started his suicide charge across a bridge.