Lets show CA who all wants China: Total War! [Archive]

View Full Version : Lets show CA who all wants China: Total War!

Samurai Steve

09-25-2004, 17:14

Hey, this is the Sword of Cao Cao, leader of the revolution for China Total War. First let me outline the game idea here that we agreed upon not to long ago.

- Contrary to the name it's not just China, it focuses on China but in reality it is all of the great Oriental Warrior Nations. Something that CA has completely ignored with Mongolia and Japan being the exception.

-Factions are:

India
China
Mongolia
Japan
Korea
Siam
Burma
Vietnam
Cambodia

* On a side note China could be divided into seperate factions like Rome, i.e. The Qin, the Zhou, the Shang.

Minor Factions

Phillipines
Indonesians
Okinawans
Nepalese
Tibetans
Ainu

- Time Period

The first game would be from the Warring States perio to say, the Fall of the Jin Dynasty. The expansion would cover the Medieval/Dark Ages era of the Far East.

- Unit Variety

This is where China shines so bright. So much unit variety! Lets looks at what we can have with tihs awesome game.

Fire Oil Cabinets (basically Chinese siege flamethrowers)

Bombs, Landmines, Gunners, Rockets

Fire Lances
The many, different kinds of Indian War elephants.

Booby traps, poison dartmen, smaller but more jungle adapted elephants

Vicious headhunters and withdoctors from the jungles of Vietnam, Phillipines, and Indonesia.

The huge and armed to the teeth citadels of China and India.

The many differnet sects of fanatical Sohei, ninja, and of course the famous samurai and all of the samurai varieties from Japan!

The rather large, bristling-with-all sorts of nasty weapons, chariots of China and India!

All of the biological and chemical warfare weapons and techniques invented by the Chinese and Indians!

The famous Mongol horse archers and Chariot archers from the steppes!

- Terrain Variety

This game would have probably the biggest variety in geography than any total war game to date! Lets take a look:

The barren steppes and freezing deserts of Mongolia

The blazing deserts and jungles of India

The rainforest of Indonesia and the beaches of the Phillipines

The majestic land of China with her huge and grand cities, great citadels and rolling hills

The plains, forest and mountains of the Land of the Rising Sun

The deep dark and haunted jungles of Vietnam

- What would make this so different and grander han previous total wars?

Like I said the unit variety, the geographical variety, the huge map and exotic locations, the culture.. And the great technological revolutions in ancient China and India. You would have guns as well as explosives and chemical/biological warfare. While at the same time having melee troops, great warriors, cavalry, all that good stuff! And of course the fact that the Far East has been almost completely ignored, (with the exception of Japan and Mongolia) would finally get her worthy due. Remember the Far East is responsible for huge wars and great innovations in warfare. Dont leave them out before progressing to the gun powder age!

- Religions

Confucianism
Taoism
Buddhism
Shinto
Animist
Hindu
Islam
Christianity
Judaism

With all those different faiths, at differnet periods, can you imagine the warfare and huge impact this would have upon the game and your entire empire?

- RPG qualities

Many players have expressed want of RPG elements in the TW series, with books like Romance of the Three Kingdoms, the Hindu myths, and the legendary samurai, the far east would be the best place to stick some RPG elements!

So now that I've shown you just a little abut how great a game like this would be, (and on the .com theres another revolutionary for a game like this who has had quite some success!) what do you guys think?

Medieval Assassin

09-25-2004, 17:18

It would be such a pwn

JR-

09-25-2004, 17:31

not unless its part of a broader Eurasia: Total war set between 750-1450 AD.

Samurai Steve

09-25-2004, 17:39

And just why is that necassary? We've already done Europe 2 times offical, and countless times when it comes to mods.

Salazar

09-25-2004, 17:46

I'm all for it. Especially because there would be thousands of Years of History to choose from and so much Things could change while the Game. And... 1000 Elephants ~D (anybody here read this Discworld Book with "Holy Wood", dont know how it's named in English)

The Sword of Cao Cao

09-25-2004, 18:13

Just wanted to say that I'm back thanks to the glorious might of KukriKhan!

Shahed

09-25-2004, 18:15

All for it.

Somebody Else

09-25-2004, 19:01

Silver Rusher

09-25-2004, 19:05

Listen, CA are debating NTW and american civil war and MTW2, so really Imperial Total War (a combination) or MTW2 are the only options. Maybe a China Total War can come after.

Havoc

09-25-2004, 20:53

american civil war??
oh, no...

eurasia: total war would be great...
the idea to have an alliance of some powerful european factions and the chinese to crush the golden horde on two fronts is really fascinating...

Silver Rusher

09-25-2004, 20:59

no no no, not civil war...

Ah, just go here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=36651)

A china thingy should be europe and asia, and not just china (eurasia therefore) and north africa as well. It should really have the chinese families as well. (Ming, Song, so on)

ah_dut

09-25-2004, 21:03

Go China Total War!

JR-

09-25-2004, 21:19

And just why is that necassary? We've already done Europe 2 times offical, and countless times when it comes to mods.

errr, because that's what I want..............?
:inquisitive:

Lemur

09-25-2004, 21:21

errr, because that's what I want..............?
:inquisitive:
There's no arguing with that, gotta hand it to you. :laugh4:

Silver Rusher

09-25-2004, 21:21

I think that the best place for this idea is in a mod.

The Sword of Cao Cao

09-25-2004, 21:30

No it isnt. You read what kind of things tihs will have? Fire Oil Cabinets, Fire Lances, Landmines, Thunder Crash bombs, rediculously large scale battles? That kind of stuff requires a GAME.

Samurai Waki

09-25-2004, 21:45

I'm still for an Imperial: Total War covering the entire world...and pretty much every faction or country from 1492-1880s. The Sengukou(?) period in Japan would be going on at the exact same time as the European Nations fought over the New World and the Spice Trade...I do realise that such a game could possibly create a lot of clutter and do chaos to realism, but thats half the fun. I think different nations should have different respectability...Nations could be judged by culture/Religion/Government...and if you so choosed you could change the government at your will giving it a very civilization feeling...but at the same time a monster interface and almost unlimited possibilities, imagine the British invading Japan during their civil war period instead of invading regions in india. Anyway I'm getting ahead of myself...I'm a dreamer of sorts. :laugh4:

Anyway, if not that I'm all for a Chinese Total War...as long as there is a sequel I'll probably keep playing...unless it sucks.

oblivious maximus

09-26-2004, 01:22

There are so many who dont realize just how fun a Warring States Total War would be,it would be on a massive scale! Qin army, Han,Zhao,Wu ect., Also hordes of Steppe tribes including the Xiong Nu. Then so much more to cover.

As a southerner, no Civil War please.. barf! NTW and MTW2 would be better.

Samurai Waki

09-26-2004, 01:55

I second that! I don't care what the next sequal is...as long as it doesn't have anything to do with just the civil war...3 or 4 factions at best just sucks. Its obvious my national pride is waning, and to think 4 more months until Basic Training :whip:

KukriKhan

09-26-2004, 02:42

Just wanted to say that I'm back thanks to the glorious might of KukriKhan!
:bow:

The Sword of Cao Cao

09-26-2004, 05:49

Since I cant edit my post as Samurai Steve, I'll make an update.

China would not just be one faction, in the first one (not my propsed expansion) which will start out in the warring states period, the Chinese factions will be:

Qin
Han
Wu
Zhao
Yan
Chu

These were the 6 contenders of Warring States China.

amir

09-26-2004, 06:15

That is the most stupid idea i ever heard of...
there were threads like that in MY spamming times here(something like a half year) and if CA did'nt made so fore, they are not going to make.

The Sword of Cao Cao

09-26-2004, 07:21

Wait... what? Dude I dont get what your calling stupid here.

Del Arroyo

09-26-2004, 10:18

The problem I see with including the South Pacific and the whole of South East Asia is that there simply was not a high intensity of interplay between these regions during this time period. Europe/NA/Asia Minor is a frequent subject simply because, historically, there was a HIGH intensity of movement, exchange an warfare between the various cultures of those regions.

You simply can't invent that same richness and intensity of interplay between all of the cultures and factions and regions you list. The only time period where this could possibly work would be the first half of the Twentieth Century, what with European colonization, Native independence movements, and the Rampaging Japanese.

Feudal Japan worked great as a game. Warring States would be an awesome game. If someone could compile and annotate a complex history of SouthEast Asian feudal conflicts, that might work too, same with India (India could be alot of fun).

Of course, a Total War game taking place entirely on Hawai'i might be fun if the proper research could be compiled.

DA

..

P.S.: As far as Amir-- the Mods let one slip through?

amir

09-26-2004, 14:12

Wait... what? Dude I dont get what your calling stupid here.

stupid, that people were sending this idea (not that i say its not a great idea) before half a year already, and if CA people did'nt post replies then about it, i see no reason why they would start now.
though i still think its a great idea.
but people really need to understand that if until today they ignored they will probably just keep ignoring and make a there own idea.

Ludens

09-26-2004, 18:01

stupid, that people were sending this idea (not that i say its not a great idea) before half a year already, and if CA people did'nt post replies then about it, i see no reason why they would start now.
though i still think its a great idea.
but people really need to understand that if until today they ignored they will probably just keep ignoring and make a there own idea.
Even if that is true, there is no need to go around insulting people and call it 'the most stupid idea I ever heard'. Though CA probably is going to follow its own path, it is not forbidden to suggest them one.

I support the idea of a China: Total War, though one might want to limit the scale. I suggest the Warring States period. There wasn't much influence from outside then, so CA can keep the theater limited to China alone.

Crazed Rabbit

09-26-2004, 18:05

Hmm, though at first I didn't think much of that period (in terms of a TW game), your first post has convinced me.

I'd love to see such a game, hopefully with truly massive citadels and cities.

Crazed Rabbit

The Sword of Cao Cao

09-27-2004, 22:46

Hehe, looks like I have natural marketing skills...

And yeah, this is around the 4th times a big poll has been held to show CA just how many people want China. And there is an absolutely huge topic about it at the .com. That guy has alot of support and wants a game like tihs as much as we do!

Qilue

09-28-2004, 04:14

I voted "yes" only because I would have zero interest in N:TW.

Plucesiar

09-28-2004, 07:14

eww American Civil War? Please say no, I'd rather have another improved MTW2. So like, for ACW, all you do is line up your troops and fire? yes that was a bit exaggerated, but I'd like to keep these total war games to historic times when melee combat was still the main way of fighting and not getting lines of ppl to reload their muskets while the front lines shoot

WarHawk

09-28-2004, 07:20

I'd rather have a Napoleanonic, or WWI-WWII Total War

Maeda Toshiie

09-28-2004, 15:40

There are 2 suitable scenarios: 3 kingdoms and Spring/Autumn Warring States.

3 Kingdoms: The fall of (Eastern Han) dynasty. The country was initially split among numerous warlords following the failure of the central government to control the country. The warlords fought among themselves till 3 states emerged from the struggles. Cao Cao's son deposed the last Han Emperor (by then a mere puppet) and established Wei, while Lui Bei established the Shu Han and Sun Quan maintained independence (he never declared himself Emperor). These 3 lasted for quite some time before they were finally reunited by the Jin dynasty (which replaced Wei and fell later with invasion of barbarians). A 3 Kingdoms game can start off at 187 BC with the uprising of the yellow turbans. Additional starting times can be added. RTK series by Koei can be an example.

Warring States (do not mix up with Spring/Autumn period): 7 states fighting from 403 Bc to 221BC (proclamation of the Qin Emperor). Heck of a civil war period. Oh and dont forget that chariots, halberds and x-bows were in use then.

The Sword of Cao Cao

09-28-2004, 15:55

Yeah, this game starts at Warring States, but you can also start at the 3 Kingdoms era if you like. Either way a TW obviously cant depend on one country anymore. It's gunna have China, but all the other faction in the East too.

WarHawk

09-29-2004, 01:09

I don't think many people would buy a China TW. I know I wouldn't.

Del Arroyo

09-29-2004, 01:16

That's where you're wrong, Cao Cao. It could only involve China. None of the other Asian cultures were involved in these conflicts.

discovery1

09-29-2004, 02:23

I love this idea, but would the current technology really do it justice? After, how large were the armies during even the waring states period? Far larger than even those fielded by Rome at it's height I think. I rember reading about armies numbering in the hundreds of thousands, although it was on these very forums so I have no idea whether or not they are accurate. So I think that while it is a good idea, I think it is best to wait until we have the tech to field such grand armies.

The Sword of Cao Cao

09-29-2004, 02:49

No m8. I think the name of this game is misleading. It's not just supposed to be about China. It's the Far East in general. India was having some nice little wars at this time with some very interesting ways of warfare, there were the Steppe tribes, the wars between the 3 Korean states of Koguryo, Silla and Paekche, the barbarians in southeast Asia. It isnt supposed to be completely historical! This is TW, like the Egyptians never conquered France, but in Medieval Total War they can.

WarHawk

09-29-2004, 02:56

No one cares about China or India. You see, CA needs to sell the game. So they will pick something that is more recognizable.

Honestly, besides the few dorks that post here, who would actualy buy this game? Think about this from a marketing perspective. No one wants to be Chinese. :no:

The Sword of Cao Cao

09-29-2004, 03:07

WarHawk

09-29-2004, 03:18

Umm.. dude have you looked at the market before making a post like that? Have you heard of say, SHOGUN TOTAL WAR? Or more accurately.. DYNASTY WARRIORS? There are over 20 games focusing on one period in Chinese history. And each one has sold very, very well in China, Japan and espeically the US. Shall I go through and list them? And tiher still making more of them! Plus, when people see the trailers, screenshots and everything else they'll want it. Use your head kid.

And this is a dorks game. Everyone who post in this thread is a dork, dork. :P
I have never even heard of this game "Dynasty Warriors". Shogun did so well because it was to do with Japan(ie Samuri, which are a part of pop culture) , not China. And games about China never do well.

Rome revolutionized RTS's, no way there going to make a sequel about China.

Del Arroyo

09-29-2004, 03:29

Samurai Waki

09-29-2004, 03:55

If you say the 3 kingdoms era would not be a good TW game I'd say you probably don't know the first thing about the era. The Three Kingdoms era is one of the most historically romanticized periods on earth, The Tactics weren't dull or stupid, well no worse than Roman or Medieval Tactics and the history of this era is the cornerstone of the next rising super power: China. I want to see a game that sees battlefields from the rising mountains of Tibet and the Himalayas to the Arid Wastelands of Western China to the Rice Paddies of the east and southeast, and the humid jungles of Vietnam and Siam(Southeast Asia) It would be no easy task to master fighting in all of those areas(especially jungle). Not to mention, the story is much deeper and intricate than the Roman conquest period...there was more to it than all out conquest, and so world domination would be much more meaningful to you as the player. I think I would manage easily.

The Sword of Cao Cao

09-29-2004, 04:07

Your missing my point. They still had armies, and very interesting ones at that. TW is about rewriting military history.

And WarHawk, try looking at the console field for a minute. Especially since theres rumours that Rome is going console. There are quite a bit of these kinds of games, and I'll list them all.

Dynasty Warriors
Dynasty Warrior 2
Dynasty Warriors 3
Dynasty Warriors 3 Xtreme Legends
Dynasty Warriors 4
Dynasty Warriors 4 Xtreme Legends
Dynasty Warriors Empires (a much anticipated game in the PS2 department)
Samurai Warriors

Romance of the Three Kingdoms I
Romance of the Three Kingdoms II
Romance of the Three Kingdoms III
Romance of the Three Kingdoms IV
Romance of the Three Kingdoms V
Romance of the Three Kingdoms VI
Romance of the Three Kingdoms VII
Romance of the Three Kingdoms VIII
Romance of the Three Kingdoms IX
Romance of the Three Kingdoms X

Dynasty Tactics
Dynasty Tactics 2

Kessen I
Kessen II

Those games have been mega-popular in the US, Britain, and Japan and China. And thier still making more of them. Plus this is just one century of Chinese history they cover! Sadly they've yet to make a good RTS out of it, plus they ignore so much of Asian military history. Only TW can get it right, and I'm sure the huge batch of TW fans made by Medieval along with the new ones made by Rome, will remember what great games TW makes and try it. Not to mention with million men battles, flamethrowers, rocket arrows, ancient landmines, gas bombs, the huge citadels, the revisiting of Japan which brings with it the ever popular samurai, people will want the game. It's so blatantly obvious. Seriously m8, drop your bias, and learn a thing or too about ancient China and medieval Asia, then you'll want the game.

Del Arroyo

09-29-2004, 05:18

Samurai Waki

09-29-2004, 06:25

Del Arroyo has a point, If the Three Kingdoms were to be made it would strictly have to be within China, to say that the Japan and China(and surrounding Regions) share a common history would be like saying the Incas and the British share a common history. The only way China and surrounding Regions could merged into one game would have to deal with European Imperialism, in which case Western and Eastern Civilization did COLLIDE and not in an entirely bad way, whatever the case...I just don't want see another TW game focus on Europe entirely.

Maeda Toshiie

09-29-2004, 06:54

Cao Cao: During the Medieval Period, and for thousands of years beforehand, there was a great intensity of interaction between the various peoples who lived in Europe, Northern Africa, and Asia Minor.

The various peoples and cultures of Asia did not interact nearly so intensely or richly until the 20th century at the earliest.

Just because all Asians have slanty eyes does not mean that their collective history is symetrically equivalent to that of Western and Near-Eastern peoples.

It would be utterly pointless to include anything outside of China in a Chinese Total War game, and equally pointless to include anything outside of India, modern-day Pak- and Afgan-istan in an Indian Total War game.

DA

Careful about the use of slanty eyes comment. I would bet a lot of chinese (including me) would not like to hear it. Know the history behind the term before using it.

Otherwise, your points are valid. The Warring States was a civil war that only involved a little of the tribes at the outskirts of the Chinese civilisation. For the 3 Kingdoms, trade connections with the Roman Empire established by Emperor Han Wu were broken by then. The Himalayas blocks much of contacts with India.

Del Arroyo

09-29-2004, 07:06

Fine: "epicanthal folds".

EDIT: Which, by the way, are evident to some degree in many AmerIndian groups. I said "slanty eyes" to add ridicule factor: I was trying to highlight the absurdity of the fact that this is the only definable thing shared by all the peoples which pan-Asianists want to lump together.

ToranagaSama

09-29-2004, 07:08

What *I* want is a return to the original Shogun: Total War, barring that yes a visit to one of the Chinese eras would be MOST welcome. Thankfully, I believe we have exhausted Europe for the time being!!!! India would also be very interesting.

WarHawk

09-29-2004, 07:34

Del Arroyo

09-29-2004, 07:38

I knew about Dynasty Warriors...

WarHawk

09-29-2004, 07:40

I knew about Dynasty Warriors...
I guess you're part of the minority that do. ~D

WarHawk

09-29-2004, 07:46

After Rome I think CA is going to start down a more mainstream road, the next Total War will probably be around 1700's-1900's With maybe the American and French Revolutions, Napoleanonic Wars, Franco-Prussian War etc.

Lemur

09-29-2004, 08:02

As a certified Roman history FREAK, I'd be perfectly happy if they stuck with the current time period forever. Just give us variations on Rome, you know, an early Imperial game, then a late Imperial game, and then do a little Homeric wars just for variety, and by then the technology will have improved enough to revisit republican Rome. And then start the cycle over. Yeah, baby, you know how I like it.

I know it's not going to happen, but still I can dream. Nothing but Rome from now on ...

Samurai Waki

09-29-2004, 08:13

where else would it be? I am all for the idea of Imperialism, the Napoleon era while interesting does not fill the void for the mainstream Total War gamer who wants something less specific. CA doesn't design games to be historically accurate in every aspect, they set the scene...but ultimately its the gamer who decides history, I.E. the Scipii did not conquer the Julii or the Brutii and yet somehow I managed to do that, and conquer all of the other factions(almost...still a bit of trouble with the Parthians.) Thats what makes the game interesting and replayable. However, if the game is set anytime after 1500 Europe will ultimately be involved. I know that not all historians think that European nations are the most interesting, in fact when it all comes down to it, I think re-doing another Europe and mediterranean focused game will become drab and dull. While I realise that western civilization is responsible for a lot of significant events(in western eyes), we cannot rule that other civilizations are unimportant or haven't done anything worthy of note, because they certainly have contributed to modern events. So whatever CA decides I'll probably be contented, but I don't want to see a game purely about just European or Mediterranean empires...I want to see the British and the Chinese duke it out for the Opium trade ~:smoking:

panchoamd

09-29-2004, 14:17

I agree what a China:TW must be interesting, but I agree to the idea of a
Imperial: TW.
1- The massive campaigns.
2- The variety of Factions.
3- The variety of Units.
4- The huge campaign map.

Other thing: Im american, but i have Almohad blood in my body, like the
major part of the people of my country.
(the mexicans descent from aztecs, the peruans from incans, and the argentinians.... from the boats!!!)
I love a Imperial: TW with the American conquest, the french-indian war,
and the independence of the american countries, like my own, Argentina.
(San Martin is a Master)
Plus, the Napoleon's Campaigns, and dont forget the renaissance!!!!
With the venecians, Hanseatic league, the wars between england and
Netherlands. The Armada Invencible of the spanish... and a looooonnnggg
etc.

~:cheers:

CHEERS!!!

DisruptorX

09-29-2004, 14:31

I'm fairly knowledgable about gaming, but untill this thread, I had not heard of these "Dynasty Warriors". :no: They must not be that popular.

That makes you ignorant. Just because you, the minority, have never heard of it does not make it unpopular. You are the strange one for not having heard of it. The Dynasty Warriors series has sold very well, so well that Koei has released 4 games, and then another 3 or 4 "xtreme" versions of the last 2 as well. If you haven't played them, that's your loss, not ours. While you are at home playing the Sims, or whatever "accessable" games you like, many other people were enjoying Dynasty Warriors, and having fun.

Your assertion that "it won't sell well", concerning say, a 3 kingdoms or otherwise Chinese TW, is offensive to me. Good games sell well, gamers don't want the same old crap, we want innovation. Attitudes like yours are what is wrong with the gaming industry. Seriously, do you only buy games by EA? Sounds like you aren't really interested in what is good, only what you see as popular. Well suprise, the most popular games are the ones that market to non-gamers, the bigger demographic. These games are laughed at by serious gamers.

Samurai Waki

09-29-2004, 18:20

...I just want to play whats fun! I don't really care about the genre(or company) at all wether it be an EA release or Activision if its something thats interesting I'll sure as hell play and not feel any bias towards one side or the other.

Thrudvang

09-29-2004, 18:43

I've always wanted an Ancient:Total War about the early civilizations and wars between them (sumerians, babylonians, persians, akkadians, phoenicians, egyptians, and so on).

DisruptorX

09-29-2004, 18:58

I've always wanted an Ancient:Total War about the early civilizations and wars between them (sumerians, babylonians, persians, akkadians, phoenicians, egyptians, and so on).

Hittites! and Assyrians too! Come to think of it, that would be pretty darn cool... and since we don't know all that much about the warriors of the period besides very broad generalizations, CA could take all the creative liberities they wanted (well, to a point... no lammasu riders ~;) )

The Sword of Cao Cao

09-29-2004, 22:52

YOU drop your bias. I am only stating fact. Warrings States would be great, but there is no room for nations other than China.

Basically you are saying that Asian history is identical to European history except with slanty eyes. That is racism at its purest.

DA

Buddy, cool it here. I wasnt even talking to you when I said "Drop your bias m8." I was talking to the all-knowledgeable-guru of gaming WarHawk, He obviously has a bias considering he wont even entertain the idea of anything Asian. And I obviously have no bias towards anyone, considering I'm trying to get all of the Far East in there. For the umpteenth time, I'am not saying Asian history is identical to European. Far from it, but they did have quite an impressive military in the different Asian nations. The idea is what if China did decide to go conquer India, or vice versa. What if the ancient Japanese invasion of Korea was successful? This is Total War, not Total Historical Accuracy. It was Asia's choice not to interact with each other. You as the gamer are simply given an era in history, an assortment of different factions each with thier own units, and a bigass campaign map. Besides did the Middle East interact with Europe as much as they do in MTW? Hardly when it comes to empire building!

And I detest that comment about racism. Nothing I have said has been racist. Indeed quite the opposite. I've been trying to get CA to include the rest of Asia, because of my immense fondness of Asian mlitary history. Dont call me a racist again.

And to whoever mentioned the idea about ancient middle east , (i.e. Assyria, Babylon, Hittites, Israel, Egypt) I could definitely live with that, if China either follows before or after that game. Lol, which is why I want that kind of game for the Rome expansion!

WarHawk

09-29-2004, 23:57

That makes you ignorant. Just because you, the minority, have never heard of it does not make it unpopular. You are the strange one for not having heard of it. The Dynasty Warriors series has sold very well, so well that Koei has released 4 games, and then another 3 or 4 "xtreme" versions of the last 2 as well. If you haven't played them, that's your loss, not ours. While you are at home playing the Sims, or whatever "accessable" games you like, many other people were enjoying Dynasty Warriors, and having fun.
Popular games are "accessable". You're missing my point; If CA wants to make a mainstream game like they did with Rome, they will choose a subject that is more familiar.

Your assertion that "it won't sell well", concerning say, a 3 kingdoms or otherwise Chinese TW, is offensive to me.
How is it offensive? Becuase I favour eurpean history over Asian? Of course I do! That's just my prefrence.

Good games sell well, gamers don't want the same old crap, we want innovation. Attitudes like yours are what is wrong with the gaming industry. Seriously, do you only buy games by EA? Sounds like you aren't really interested in what is good, only what you see as popular. Well suprise, the most popular games are the ones that market to non-gamers, the bigger demographic.

Attitudes like mine? ~:confused:

It's not like I hate the idea of the game. I just don't think CA would do it.

These games are laughed at by serious gamers.
Wow. An elitist. :bow:

DisruptorX

09-30-2004, 04:50

How is it offensive? Becuase I favour eurpean history over Asian? Of course I do! That's just my prefrence.

Right there, you just proved my point. You speak for yourself, not others. Just because you aren't interested doesn't mean that there isn't a market. The Romans bore me, I haven't been complaining about this, I still bought RTW and am playing it.

Wow. An elitist. :bow:

Absolutely.

Samurai Waki

09-30-2004, 06:29

I'm just a pure tactical gamer...I've enjoyed playing tacticals games since I was like 8. I've enjoyed tacticals games of every stand point...I've liked RTS games like WarCraft series...to games like Korsun Pocket(Seriously challenging game and I would recommend it to anyone interested in what it would REALLY be like to be a General in WW2) I've enjoyed all 3 of the Total War series...and the reason being is the purely liberal angle that the game offers, meaning that basically you are given the footing to start and Empire but it mostly has no real conservativism in history. Its not meant to be a historically accurate game and thats what most people don't seem to understand...if it were historically accurate on every level it would eventually get boring and unplayable. A 3 Kingdoms mod would be fine- no great, because my knowledge of the era is very low...it would add one more tactical game to my already huge list that I own...Kind of like when I bought STW when it first came out, my first thought of playing the game was that it really sucked because I didn't know jack sh-t about the era or the tactical gameplay...Europe and Medieval have always been my biggest genre, but after I played STW I couldn't stop thinking of the Shogun Era for months. So whose to say that a Three Kingdoms Total War wouldn't be cool...it mostly certainly could be and I'd be amongst the first to willfully play it...if a game is 100% historical...than its not really a game its more of an interactive documentary...well I'm done with my ranting and raving ~D

WarHawk

09-30-2004, 07:04

Right there, you just proved my point. You speak for yourself, not others. Just because you aren't interested doesn't mean that there isn't a market. The Romans bore me, I haven't been complaining about this, I still bought RTW and am playing it.
No. Most westerners care more about western and eurpean history as opposed to Chinese history. Maybe the game would do well in asia, but not as well as Rome TW was in the West.

Samurai Waki

09-30-2004, 07:38

Most care neither more or less about western history than eastern history because history is unbiased, history is history. Sure, there may be people who favor western history over eastern history, but just because someone is of western or European descent does not mean that their history is more important than Eastern History. Basically, the line between eastern and western civilization has been broken, Europe and America's path will be directly determined by the path that other parts of the world have taken, and likewise. Just because your western and you favor European and American History does not mean you should have total ignorance of everyone elses history...I believe the American or European Majority who play the total war series play the game out of not only historical retinue, but that of the tactics as well. I'm trying to speak for everybody(just to make that clear), but people have a difficult time telling the difference of I and US when you refer to whatever you believe as WE.

Samurai Waki

09-30-2004, 07:39

...I'm NOT trying to speak for everybody *ahem*

Adrian II

09-30-2004, 12:22

So whose to say that a Three Kingdoms Total War wouldn't be cool...it mostly certainly could be and I'd be amongst the first to willfully play it...if a game is 100% historical...than its not really a game (..)Exactly my feelings, Wazikashi. If Shogun Total War was a hit, why couldn't a Three Kingdoms Total War be a hit with players all around the globe? Heck, a game's setting could be the South Pole and it would still be interesting as long as it was tactically challenging and rich in historical detail without being a lame 'docugame'. Personally I'm rooting for a Revolutionary and Napoleonic Total War (roughly 1770-1815), but I'm sure I would have a great time with a well-developed (and preferably innovative) Three Kingdoms.

panchoamd

09-30-2004, 13:19

I absolutely agree with the idea of Three Kingdom TW!!!
Is VERY intersting, because this game, like STW, is different
of the rest, always oriented to the Europeans wars.
Otherwise, for me or other people like me, be a good thing the
idea of Imperial TW.
Even, the merge between both games, and make a super game
with a lot of years to conquer everything!!!
But i know, what this Supergame, is so complicated and huge...
and the biggest part of the commons player are not intersting in a
game of this proportions, and are a players what play only the battles,
not the campaign, because consider thhis boring...
Another tip: The period of the modern age between the fall of constantinople
and the first decade of the 20 century is agood starting point, but the
problem is what this wars are between gunpowder units... with minus meele
what others... and of course minus "action".
However, consider the American conquest, The independence of the American countries, the exploits of San Martin and Bolivar...
The Colon's travel, Marco Polo, Magallanes, Cook, etc...
Consider of all this and think if "no vale la pena"... (i dont know in eng)

CHEERS!!

P/S: Dont start a flame war, please...

Tricky Lady

09-30-2004, 13:31

"no vale la pena"... (i dont know in eng)

...'it's (not) worth it', if I'm not wrong.

NimitsTexan

10-02-2004, 23:47

I am in the "knows about the game but does not care for another Asian-oriented TW" category. Just am not that interested in the history of ancient or medieval China. I never bought Shogun and I doubt I would ever buy a Chinese rendition of TW either.

WarHawk

10-03-2004, 00:46

ChaotikVisions

10-03-2004, 02:20

I'd be for it personally, the Three Kingdoms period is a great setting and it'd allow CA to expand more with unit abilities and generals. As for it not selling or doing well, I doubt most people care what tiny little men they march off to their doom so long as the theme is done properly and their is good unit variety. And whats with people who focus only on one period of history? Am I abnormal in taking interests in all the different periods? Maybe i've just played too much Civ, but theres lots of good things in any given period. Warfare has been ever-changing throughout mankinds existance, I won't be happy till the Total War series covers em all. :P

As for the game not selling well, I doubt that. The Romance of the Three Kingdoms series has been very popular, as well as Dynasty Warriors and the culture in general. Chinese/Japanese culture has been spreading to America and beyond for awhile now, just look at the rising popularity of anime and movies like Hero/Crouching Tiger-Hidden Dragon/Last Samurai. Thats just naming a few. If anything, i'd say going to a Three Kingdom themed Total War would attract alot more new players then one in the Napoleonic era. I mean, go ask your average Joe if he knows what a Hussar or a Ninja is. I'm betting he knows the Ninja and has no clue about a Hussar.

Anyway, thats just my thoughts.

Colovion

10-03-2004, 02:27

I don't know much about the Chinese History or warfare for that matter so I'd buy it. It's something different, so people might be intrigued to not have the same old Western Culture Oriented games.

X6_861

10-03-2004, 02:37

I think no matter what era CA decides to do the next Total War game in, it will be fun and interesting. I'm a huge fan of Roman history, though, so I'm very happy with RTW.

I still wish I could march my Roman legions into Edo, Japan, though! Heck, I want to march on every corner of the globe with my legions. How would my praetorians match up with the samurai or with Aztec warbands. Could be awesome!

Maeda Toshiie

10-03-2004, 04:47

I don't know much about the Chinese History or warfare for that matter so I'd buy it. It's something different, so people might be intrigued to not have the same old Western Culture Oriented games.

Precisely the point. I am sure there are those who bought STW because ithey are interested in Japanese history. In fact some got inspired to learn more about it after playing the game!

If the game is good, people will play it, be it Pokemon TW or Jurassic TW. If the history is presented in an interesting and fun way in the game, people will go out of their way to learn more about it (and be enriched), while telling their friends how interesting and fun the game was.

I think no matter what era CA decides to do the next Total War game in, it will be fun and interesting. I'm a huge fan of Roman history, though, so I'm very happy with RTW.

I still wish I could march my Roman legions into Edo, Japan, though! Heck, I want to march on every corner of the globe with my legions. How would my praetorians match up with the samurai or with Aztec warbands. Could be awesome!

Erm, when the Roman legions were marching, there were only aborigines living in the Japanese Isles. Roman Empire vs Han Dynasty would be more possible though.

Del Arroyo

10-03-2004, 07:14

Roman Empire vs Han Dynasty would be more possible though.

Yes. Give them all radios and internal combustion engines. ~;)

Samurai Waki

10-03-2004, 07:47

Erm, when the Roman legions were marching, there were only aborigines living in the Japanese Isles. Roman Empire vs Han Dynasty would be more possible though.

Hahahahahahahahaha...that is the most hypocritical thing I've seen on these forums.

Maeda Toshiie

10-03-2004, 10:03

Hahahahahahahahaha...that is the most hypocritical thing I've seen on these forums.

Go read up a little of history before making comments.

Yayoi Period (300 BC to 300 AD): At that time agriculture was slowly developing within the country, after rice planting was imported from China. And that did not cover all of the main islands. Northern half of Honshu was mainly populated by the Ainu.

The samurai only gradually came into existance during the 8th and 9th century. By the western half of the Roman Empire was long gone.

The Roman Empire at its height corresponded to the time where the Han dynasty (206 BC to 220 AD) was in power in China.

Samurai Waki

10-03-2004, 10:19

I realize what your saying...but I like to stick with history a little.

DisruptorX

10-03-2004, 10:30

*applauds*

So are you basically just saying that you are a racist bastard? How dare a redblooded, god-fearing Caucasian be willing to look at the other 80% of the world? I'm sorry if you are close minded and unwilling to look at anything new, I shouldn't have expected anything else.

I don't normally throw that accusation around, but you are viscously attacking the idea that a westerner could possibly be interested in anything but their own people's history.

Considering how big Eastern themes are in video games, your asertions are ridiculous and offensive. I would hope that CA wouldn't be willing to ignore some ideas because a certain minority would dismiss them offhand on principle.

Ludens

10-03-2004, 11:59

JR-

10-03-2004, 12:46

i want a eurasian total war precisely because i want to see how the actions of the east impact on the west, and vice-versa.

hotingzilla

10-03-2004, 16:16

Yeah, I love it! I am Chinese too, so I'd love to see a good game about it.

Chinese history is vast, it would be hard to choose which part to be put in the game.

China: Total War. Could mean the Qing dynasty, or maybe during the Warring States period....

Meneldil

10-03-2004, 17:00

I think the best idea would be a game that takes place in both europe and asia (northern africa aswell), from ~750 to ~1500.

That would totally rocks.

Consul Flaminius

10-03-2004, 17:36

I agree with Meneldil ~:)

NimitsTexan

10-03-2004, 18:36

So are you basically just saying that you are a racist bastard? How dare a redblooded, god-fearing Caucasian be willing to look at the other 80% of the world? I'm sorry if you are close minded and unwilling to look at anything new, I shouldn't have expected anything else.

I don't normally throw that accusation around, but you are viscously attacking the idea that a westerner could possibly be interested in anything but their own people's history.

Considering how big Eastern themes are in video games, your asertions are ridiculous and offensive. I would hope that CA wouldn't be willing to ignore some ideas because a certain minority would dismiss them offhand on principle.

So you are saying unless someone is wildly enthusiastic about Chinese history and wants to buy a game based on it they are a racist? That's one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

The Sword of Cao Cao

10-03-2004, 18:44

I'd just like to say that I was an original Shogun vet. I had absolutely zero interest in the Medieval era before it came out (although I did find the Saracen's intriguing). I remembered how great Shogun was, and went ahead and bought Medieval anyways. Medieval made me a fan of that era dare I say it. I've researched alot on the period and personally find it very fascinating thanks to that game.

I have no doubt a TW game like this would do the same to fellows with no interest in Asian history.

Dubbyar

10-03-2004, 18:52

A China: Total War would be awesome. In highschool they only taught western history, so I decided to do some research on eastern history to learn more about my ancestors (I'm Chinese). If you guys (the ones who don't know a thing about asian history) would just look up the history of China or the surrounding countries, they are filled with a lot of interesting information, much more interesting than medieval history.

DisruptorX

10-04-2004, 05:01

So you are saying unless someone is wildly enthusiastic about Chinese history and wants to buy a game based on it they are a racist? That's one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

No, I would never throw that accusation around. I said that because of his applause at some other guy not being interested in the Chinese. I don't think he is racist, I'm just saying that he shouldn't behave like that.

Anyway, for God's sake, the Total War franchise was born from an eastern theme.

Jugurtha

10-04-2004, 09:56

To be honest, despite what is being sid here, I don't think that a TW China would be different enough. At the end of the day there are only so many thngs you can do with sword/spears/arrows/catapults + a few local eccentricities.

As an expansion pack, like Vikings, might do well.

IMHO, the next TW will have to be the 18th/18th centuries, and again set in Europe (perhaps ACW - but that's been done to death). Maybe you could start in the 17th so that players who didn't upgrade their technology would be rapidly penalised. And that's also why it would focus on the West, because that's where theis technology came to fruition. From a historical point of view the period also fits the game play very well; lots of factions competing; flanking by the sea; mostly linear battle formations and evolutions; lots of different unit types.

NimitsTexan

10-04-2004, 15:59

ACW would be, IMHO, the best new place for TW. And no, it has not been "done to death." Excluding the History Channel valueware joke, in the last 10-12 years, there have only been ACW games that covered the war from a strategic perspective, and those are both a decade or more old. There have been alot of turn-based tactical games, but the same is true for Napoleonics and other gunpowder wars as well.

The only thing is, they would have to drastically redo the engine to do it right.

SpencerH

10-04-2004, 16:33

I think it could be an interesting game but I'd like to see NTW or (a non-scripted) War Between The States:TW (maybe with the possibilities of British, French, and Mexican interventions).

Del Arroyo

10-04-2004, 19:24

There aren't enough factions in the ACW. Would not work in a Total War game.

Besides, we've already got Sid Meier's Gettysburg/Antietam.

DA

Thrudvang

10-05-2004, 03:07

Well, sticking with my Ancient:Total War idea also, I wouldnt mind seeing more Middle East stuff. I dont think too many games cover that whole region, historically atleast (and Desert Storm junk doesnt count).

But no matter what the next Total War game is, i'm still certainly going to buy and play it. Ancient China is probably my least favorite peroid in history, but i'd still play a China:Total War, not only because I like Total War, but I might find a liking in China.

World History exsists on more than 1 hemisphere.

son of spam

10-05-2004, 04:37

I would like to play a three kingdoms: TW game, but I'd rather CA release as some sort of expansion pack within the broader framework of some Eurasian type game. I think the timescale is far too short for an actual TW game (at most the three kingdoms period lasted around 100 years IIRC, after that it splintered into many small kingdoms).

bmolsson

10-05-2004, 07:47

Why not something from the Americas BEFORE Mr. Columbus screwed things up ? ;)

Factions: Inca, Aztecs, etc etc

NimitsTexan

10-05-2004, 09:45

There aren't enough factions in the ACW. Would not work in a Total War game.

Besides, we've already got Sid Meier's Gettysburg/Antietam.

DA

Like I said, it would have to be a heavily modified TW engine.

SMG/SMA, on the other hand, have no strategic component, and are quite old (barely run on some xp systems).

NimitsTexan

10-05-2004, 09:47

Why not something from the Americas BEFORE Mr. Columbus screwed things up ? ;)

Factions: Inca, Aztecs, etc etc

What do you mean "Columbus screwed things up?" North America is surely a better place for his having bumped it (yeah I know th Vikings and maybe even the Romans got here first, but still).

The Sword of Cao Cao

10-05-2004, 11:34

^ Forgot the Chinese. They discovered the New World before Columbus was even born. They also didnt keep thier discovery a secret in Asia at least. Medieval Chinese were completely aware of the existence of Africa and the New World.

kongxinga

10-05-2004, 16:54

Chinese were also the first non aboriginal people in Australia. America may have been better for Anglo Saxons, but how about the Native Indians?

China Total War would be a fine idea. There are a few reasons why.

1. In roads into the huge Asian gaming market, especially Korean and Taiwanese. Medieval and Shogun has already attracted many Asians, the Taiwan Cavaliers for example. But a game on their own cultures in a time of growing cultural pride would be a hit, more than making up for any potential loss of revenue from any ignorant European descended peoples, or any potential imperialists or rascists. I am not saying they are, and I am not calling anyone this, but there exists quite a few.

2. Diversity and ease of time period
Pratically any eriod from fall of Han onwards could be included, but I will stop at the mongol invasion. China was in a state of disarray (3 kingdoms, 5 dynasty 10 kingdoms) at this time, offering the other nearby cultures a chance. A united China played agressively would walk over all the cultures unless they made their units in the common western misinterpretation- that is weak and massed. All the nearby countries could be included, including up to the arabs (Battle of Talas River anyone?). To anyone that disputes this statement, you should know that in the one historically documented clash between chinese troops and roman style troops, it was a crushing defeat for the romans. The romans adopted the fish scale formation (Testudo) while the chinese proceeded to laugh and shoot them with Chinese Crossbows (not ZHUGE NU aka cho ko nu aka Nian Nu aka Kung Ming Nu, it is an earlier version). So even the much vaunted Roman empire lost militarily to Han China. And the Roman Empire is considered the backbone of Western Culture. Source (Penguin History of the world for the battle) Note that Rome is much weaker economically to Han China. (Just look how Rome fell.) Some people might ask, why did china not embark in a conquering spree? Typical. 5000 years of history has taught china many things, one of them is that a empire based on exploitation of any kind is doomed to fall fast. Just look at the Zhou dynasty. It started off based on feudalism and military control of peasants, but soon warlords arose. Although the zhou dynasty lingered on, it was effectively an ineffective political entity. So that is why no colonialism or imperialism and what not. Most western history tests claim that Qing empire was weak because it had no overseas empire. Very common misconception. It already had a huge RICH empire that is well managed. The reason China was on decline was due to a series of incompetent rulers. For example just look at what Lin of the Blue sky did to the british at Canton. German artillery already brought and trained, BOOM, british ships scamper away (but proceeded to bambard peking, which scares the heck of stupid emperor who surrenders). Beware, this (any empire based on exploitation is doomed to fall face) policy has never failed in Chinese history. The mongols are the most famous 2nd example, but I am sure you all know that, don't you ~;) ?

No? How about 65:1? Does this ratio not give a clue?

Back on topic. In addition to crack troops, high tech troops, and high levels of culture, there can be a lot of different strategic agents with many different tasks. Any one who played any ROTK game would know. ( Burn stores etc) and this game could introduce a lot of legendary objects ( Imperial seal, Red Hare horse, Green Dragon Sword) which boosts your generals atttributes. Also vietnamese ( known as nan Man but that is politically incorrect if translated) could be included with their rattan armoured troops.
Sword of Cao Cao , you left out Shui Shang Huo Lu, which is a ship launched rocket , with a range of 2 km. If CA wants to go to a more fantasy (as least in the eyes of Westerners)approach, war Kites could be included. I would also like to see fork carts included as siege weapons. I know Cao Cao in ROTK used many Xiongnu cavalry, but did Liu have any tibetan Cavalry. If so these could also be included. Since Ca has already taken a Warcrafty approach to TW, in CTW they could also include Strategists, who launch tactics ( Spells that cause fear disorder, change of wind direction, or to bring down rain) these strategists are your generals, but to compensate they are weak in combat. So with Longer time periods, and the immense diversity of the cultures, this game would be very good.

3. Europe has been overused. Plus whoever said a game set in Asia would not be a success. As the ROTK series have proven that they will. This whole reluctance is because nobody has seriously tried to do it. But if CA shakes off western misconceptions, and makes a CTW, they could become THE COmpany in the eyes of Asians. THE COMPANY is Blizzard now, but the greater success of a Chinese oriented game could easily displace them , as CA becomes The Company that brought the continent into Western focus.

The arguments for this game are many, and it should be made sooner than later.

DisruptorX

10-05-2004, 17:44

I agree with everything you said up untill the parts about fantasy units. A no-go there.

Although, you seem to be making china out as some kind of utopian paradise, I don't think that's quite the case. ~;) You do know that the the Great Wall was literally built with the bones of the Emperor's enemies...

The Sword of Cao Cao

10-05-2004, 19:57

I too agree with you completely, however I dont think there should be magic or spells. Ancient Chinese and Indian technology is much more interesting than magic to me.

fester

10-05-2004, 20:24

There are plenty of games out there for people who like spells and potions so please leave TW for us purist's. I had enough trouble coming to terms with Kensia ( spelling ) never mind fighting against, Or with magic dragons....

kongxinga

10-06-2004, 00:10

Dear me, you guys reply fast.

The spells thing I was talking about is drawn from some of the older ROTK strategy games, where being starcraft style strategy games, there is very little room for strategy. So there is a unit, called a strategist, who can unleash tactics, like Fire arrows then Change Wind Direction, which blows the fire right on the enemy. It is not really magical, like Kung Ming predicted the Change of Winds in the Battle of the Red cliffs. But you guys are right, leave these out, as we can use real tactics of our own. I would still like the fire arrows option on the Bowmen, although not in the RTW sense ( that is people being incinerated when hit)

I put a brief list of possible units and civilizations for fall of Han to Rise of Yuan.

I apologize if some of the terms are too all-inclusive.

Mongols, with their usual units, maybe lifted from Shogun.
Japan, Ditto
India, war elephants but dont overdo it. Very disciplined and large armies. There is a saying " Persia is known for their archers, the Arabs their Cavalry, the Indians their armies" Armoured elephant Citadels, spiked city walls to prevent elephants battering them down. I would need a bit more help here as I am an ignorant foreigner to Indians.

White Huns AKA XiongNU
Very Cheap horse archers (peasant level) weaker siege especially compared with mongols, better start position economically to mongols. I need some more research here

Yellow Huns (Arabs??) Unknown
Persian Sassanid Empire Cataphracts etc.
Nan Man Rattan Infantry which are amphibious and their armour is impenetratable to sword or spear or crossbow bolt. Have to use fire arrows or blow them up (lots of ways to do this)
Beast Riders (elephants and other varieties)? Maybe too fantasy like, but was mentioned in the book.
10 Bolt crossbow - fires poisoned bolts, that equates to eventual death. It is said Kung Ming got the chokonu idea from this. It fires 10 bolts at a time, however there are long reload.
Polynesians These guys will start off in Taiwan, as the Ainu and as the Phillipinos. I would need more research in case i come up with cliches.

China
This could be divided into the 3 Kingdoms, or maybe the Southern Song, Jing, Xi Xia, or the 5 Dynasties 3 Kingdoms. As the old Cliche goes, South Easterners get Fantastic Marines, Northeners fantastic cavalry. But possible Units for China.

Siege Crossbow, Tang GuardsMan Halberdiers, Rocket Chokonu, Continuos Greek Fire Laucher, very cheap crossbows (it was easy to use and so this helped reduce XiongNu threats as the xiong Nu used skills they used everyday to fight ( archery and riding) while peasants usually had to be trained. With the crossbow, the training was not needed) , Thunder Clap bombers, painted face Shock troops ( used in conjunction with the famous fire Oxen), battlefield engineers who do all kinds of stuff like building bridges, or diverting a river to wash away enemy troops, Covered armoured chariots (although admittedly, this is from the Spring autumn period and not Han dynasty)
Mongols could also get 5 Horse Shock cavalry (5 horses Tied together for more shock)

Sieges could feature all the usual siege weapons, but now rams should gain momentum as the proceed with out obstacles. But if they get through the first gate, a second gate will be waiting, but at a different angle, so the ram has to turn and thus loses speed and could be shot at in the airlock space.

In accordance to Chinese Philosophy, some strategic elements must be changed.

1. Standing, effective fighting forces must be very expensive to maintain. So the bulk of your force may be hasty levies. Of course you could go for a medium sized standing armies, but if the support causes a certain province to lack farmers and thus have negative income, the peasants are almost certain to revolt. thus the effective use of your elite force is very important.

2. Your heirs could be either Warrior or Student. Students will be sent to provinces with academies to be trained, then after a certain age, they go to the capital, wherever it is at that time, to take a test, which once passed, allows him to govern provinces effectively. Depending on the academy he spent the most time with, he could also be used in battle, not for melee though, but if he went to a strategies instituition, he could have a higher command, and possible cause fear in enmy troops.
Warriors could fight as captains in your army, or sent to martial instituitions.

3. general Duels were fairly common in ROTk and could be implemented for SINGLE Player ONLY. You could always refuse to go, but your troops take a slight morale hit.

4. I would also like to see a opportunity to bribe testing Officials ( if you do not control the emperor) or to practise nepotism, if you are emperor. Beware that gives you and your heir nasty vices, and could result in a line of incompetent rulers.

5. Some bits of legendary Objects could be included. For example, finding a copy of Hua Tuo's medicinal texts could allow your general to heal important family members when they are critically wounded, like from poisoned arrow bolts. The imperial seal allows you to proclaim yourself royal protector even if you do not control the capital, wherever it is at that time.

6. Merchants roam the land, offering normal goods (food iron, weapons, wood) and possibly a strange item.

7. You can install the emperor as a puppet, or found your own dynasty when you capture it. Beware, founding the your own when the emperor lives will mean you are the target for everyone, who can attack you under the name of restoration (free peasant troops with some good generals). Even if you make the emperor a puppet, he could stage a restoration, think of the pope coming back, but with 10 times more troops, as you are besieged in the palace, while the emperor stages his coup with elite bodyguards from within. Some building to building, room to room fighting would be good and add some FPS suspense in this game (" What is behind those doors??). This situation could also happen if one of your generals stages a coup de etat. As usual you can choose sides.

8. Invading and holding Nan Man is a bad idea. even Zhugelian did not dare hold the Nan Mang. Attrition rates from malaria could also be one of the Nanman advantages. Holding another province, especially a foreign one, becomes very difficult, as you must convince the people that rule under you is better, not just scare them. Your troops are always hoplessly outnumbered by the peasants, so getting a good administrator there, and giving gifts of food as well as improving infrastructure is important. This also very encourages raids. Which suits many of the civilizations character.

9. Your troops can pillage, which reduces a bit the strain of expensive supply lines, but the hatred of the people will increase dramatically, and will increase your attrition loss, even in future raids.

10. Narrow Mountain valley fighting should also be included.

11. generals can be persuaded to join your side once captured. If they refuse you can always just continue keeping them in jail. Every term in jail slowly decreases his loyalty to his previous lord, allowing you to persuade him eventually, unless he escapes, or is rescued covertly, or another army captures the province with the jail. So now you do not have to ransom them immediately.

12. Public killing of diplomats is possible, including more colorful ways than beheading, like 5 horses separate a body, or another too gruesome to mention. Let us just put it in one world. (Mercury). Depending on the acts, the offended country will react accordingly, and you may get some ugly vices, which may encourage more shadowy generals and characters to join you, like bandit lords etc.

13. Depending on your past behavior, different types of random generals may decide to join you. If you had been loyal to the emperor and proclaimed that you are going to help restore the fallen dynasty, patriotic characters join you as generals or part of your retinue. For example Guan Yu may join you if you fight honourably and do not pursue routing peasants, an expert Poisoner capable of making letters coated with acid may join you if you love betraying and assassinating people. If your leader is a bum and has been sitting in that province which happens to have a Taoist shrine there, he might come back learned in Taoist philosophy, and acquire Sacred books, and acquire a senior Daoist priest in his retinue when he returns to the capital.

14. Different religons should have different effects. For example if your people are highly confucianist, soldiers will be a bit more expensive to recruit, while trade revenue will be dereased , management will be better, so there will be farming and less corruption bonuses.
That is all for now. keep up the discussion.

bmolsson

10-06-2004, 03:19

What do you mean "Columbus screwed things up?" North America is surely a better place for his having bumped it (yeah I know th Vikings and maybe even the Romans got here first, but still).

Sure North America is a better place now, but it will not be as interesting as a TW game...... ;)

NimitsTexan

10-06-2004, 07:17

Not sure about that, though I will take anything that would move TW out of swords and arrows (and especially a return to the far east) into the horse and musket period or beyond. We have three ancient/medieval TW games, time for a change of pace.

CaoCao

10-09-2004, 19:15

Kaiser of Arabia

10-09-2004, 19:23

But I want a New Jersey Total War!

Its a war in NJ with factions like:
The Mafia
The Conservatives
The Liberals
The KKK
The Invading New Yorkers
The Invading Pensylvanians
The Invading Delewarians
The Gay Americans
James Mgreevy (only one unit, all male units afraid of this one unit)

LOL

No, China would be cool

DisruptorX

10-09-2004, 19:33

SanGuo/Ancient China would be awesome.

Though their would be little oppertunity for naval warfare, I know that the decisive battle of Red cliffs involved naval action but there is a difference between a few rivers with a few islands of China and the massive Mediterrian and Black sea of the west.

@DistruptorX Hi I am PheonixUK from portent

Hey, welcome to teh totalwar.org

For naval warfare, there is always Chi Bi.....

Come to think of it, they could make naval warfare exactly like in dynasty warriors, your ships come up next to theirs and your units attempt to board. It would be an interesting idea.

While they Chinese aren't particularly well known for being great sailors, they certainly had loads and loads of ships for trade and the like, and of course they would need to protect those ships.

HicRic

10-09-2004, 19:39

I have no doubt that a game based on the three kingdoms period in china and that kind of area of history would sell well. As it has already been pointed out, there are numerous games and gamers interested in that period of chinese history and I'm sure they could make a fantastic game. I'd be more than happy for the next TW game to be Three Kingdoms China: Total War or anything along those lines. Dynasty Warriors, RTK, Kessen and the rest of those games already out have all sold very well indeed, indicating that there are plenty of people who would buy a Total War game of it. Superb unit diversity and factions, famous characters and so on from the period would all help to make a great game!

So, in summary: I vote yes. ~:cheers:

chemchok

10-09-2004, 19:48

While they Chinese aren't particularly well known for being great sailors, they certainly had loads and loads of ships for trade and the like, and of course they would need to protect those ships.
I thought I'd throw you these links about the Treasure Fleet of the 15th C. It might have been an anomaly in Chinese history, but it's one of those "what if" cases - the point where China could have planted the seeds of overseas influence and power to rival the upcoming Europeans.

Brief Summary (http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa020201a.htm)
Excellent Book Focusing on the Fleets (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195112075/103-4742452-8778225?v=glance)

CaoCao

10-09-2004, 19:59

What would be a good name for the game? We have had a rank (Shogun) a time period (Mediaeval) and a place (viking invasions ~;) would Three Kingdoms:Total war be a good name?

If the islands of South-East Asia and Japan is included then naval warfare would be more important.

bigredlemon

10-09-2004, 22:46