Do u like Kensai

[FasT]

Do u think they're usefull in battle?

How u like usin them?

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[youssof_Toda]

I prefer them as my personal bodyguard.

[JeRrYgArCiA]

they are very useful, fast, they give a morale bonus, usually kill 20-40, you should use them in pairs, seem to work best that way.

[Mithrandir]

look around for some posts of mine in this forum, Kensai rule!
I ussually have some only Kensai armies in the late game, 8 or so can take on armies up to 3000 troops without much problems.
If they dont attack you just attack them, lure the enemy into the forest so their cavelry and archers get penalties, just use 4 to defend while the other 4 rest, switch them around from time to time so they dont get exhausted and the enemy will rout in no time due to the morale penalties,but more due to the incredible loss of troops on their side.

I just love to attack a province which I know to be guarded by a lot of ashiguru units http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif.

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Quote Originally posted by JeRrYgArCiA:
they give a morale bonus[/QUOTE]

They do? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

I don't like Kensai. As Jerry said they kill 20-40. Why get them when the average kills of my horses is 120? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif I see it as a wasted unit slot. Some use Kensai as their general...I don't like it too much neither. I am the 'offensive' type of guy who uses the general's morale bonus to other units around...I fight with my gen with care, but I want to exploit the full potential of the HC unit I use.

Anyway, style of play I guess. A kensai can keep occupied a unit for AGES. But holding isn't part of my game so sorry my little Kensai friend! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[Vlad The Impaler]

i dont really like kensai but sometimes i use them in defending a bridge or a castle; but no so often; i prefer a combination of nag & ninja in defending a bridge;

[Rokkaku]

well, kensai are very characterful as your general, and exceptionaly cool as well, people use them on there own and it doesnt work that way. Kensai are very hard to see it the turmoil of battle, and are excellant at charging into the flanks with a nit of spearmen, the kick ass. u cannot use kensai on there own, it just doesnt work, not a chance in hell, but, a kensai holding up the front and sum cav.(heavy preferable) in the back will utterly destroy any unit in the game.

[youssof_Toda]

Btw I mostly use them in comp games in the winter when I camp in my castle4d with 5 min timer on.

Quote Originally posted by youssof_Toda:
Btw I mostly use them in comp games in the winter when I camp in my castle4d with 5 min timer on.[/QUOTE]

Wasn't it 3C? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[oZoNeLaYeR]

lol i had 4 kensai, all got wasted by 8 units of monks... oh btw 4 kensai is all i had.

[tootee]

A general must always be on horseback! Men do not respect a general on foot. He eye-level should be higher than his men, so he must also be riding the largest, tallest horse on the battlefield.

And KS. I try to use them. Can never manage to kill over 40. And they take out the enemy too slowly. But they can be useful in forest, being small and hard to spot. Use them at least in pair. A lone KS wondering off suffer much morale penalty, do little good. But hey, I'm not KS expert. I'll give a ring to AMP.

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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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General must not only be mounted, but also a Heavy Cav, the most powerful standard unit in the Japanese game.

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[FasT]

Quote Originally posted by Terazawa Tokugawa:
General must not only be mounted, but also a Heavy Cav, the most powerful standard unit in the Japanese game.

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[/QUOTE]
Most expensive too http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[mizuYari]

Now, now, you guys start to offend me http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

I challenge your Heavy Cav General any time, mano-a-mano http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

My Yari Squads respect a general that stuck with them when the cav comes, guarding their flank or rear.

Back to the topic: Kensai as general sucks because if he is near the front, he will run away when the front waver. Kensai tent to run when he sees he is surrounded by a lot of enemy and he is particularly vulnerable with Heavy and Nag Cav. And he is also slow.

MizuYari
born in a yari squad

[AggonyCougar]

They also are handy to defend your fire-units on the flank, if you put one of them on each side, players won't try rush your guns with cav cause there is a very-hard-to-shoot-to-death unit behind it.

AggonyCougar

[youssof_Toda]

Quote Originally posted by Terazawa Tokugawa:
Wasn't it 3C? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

[/QUOTE]

you know me better than i know myself http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Ajaxers have simple lives http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[Gothmog]

I assume we are talking about single player? As Kensai simply sucks in multi.

That being said, I find it very useful to have a Kensai or two in the army as special task force, such as distracting enemy missle fires, or standing in front of the guns to delay the incoming AI cavalry (since I am using my own stats set for single player, AI's heavy cavalry are stronger than mine, and can often tear through my gun lines if I am not careful).

Kensai are also very useful in bridge battles or castle assault.

However, you can't rely too much on Kensai. They simply kill tooooooo slow.

As far as using Kensai as general, I think that's a bad idea. If you don't use him, he is wasted. If you do use him, you are putting him in great danger and can ruin the whole army.



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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
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[FasT]

I have 12 Kensai in SP with my Gen and u just stroll across the map routin all who meet them http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Their all h6/h5 with Wep upgrades and Defence upgrades....

[Gothmog]

Quote Originally posted by FasT:
I have 12 Kensai in SP with my Gen and u just stroll across the map routin all who meet them http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Their all h6/h5 with Wep upgrades and Defence upgrades....[/QUOTE]

Now can you use 16 Kensai to stop 8000 (60men/unit setting) troops that are armed to the teeth? Not a chance.

Can you use 16 well-balanced regular units to stop 8000 invasion horde? Of course.

[LittleGrizzly]

never use em my spears nods cavs and guns r much better much balanced killing machine

[pdoan8]

I use Kensai a lot in SP in many ways but rarely use them as main troops (unless to scare off an Ashi army by using 8 Kensai + 8 BN). I usually have 2 to 4 Kensais in an army.

Bridge defense and offense.

Attack a castle which is defended by a small number of missile units (just a way to raise their honor quickly).

Hold the flank or flank the enemy (as additional shock troop).

Exploit a small gap in enemy line (to attack the enemy Taiso).

Hold the foot yari so cavalry can advance. Or hold an unit so other can attack on their flank.

Reinforce a weak point defending missile units.

Favorite: ambush.

Second favorite: 2 to 3 Kensais + 1 BN to defend a Citadel while I move all troops in the province some where else trying to draw the enemy into attacking my province so I can attack theirs. My troops will likely hold the Citadel for 2 years.

[This message has been edited by pdoan8 (edited 08-08-2002).]

[youssof_Toda]

Quote Originally posted by Terazawa Tokugawa:
Ajaxers have simple lives http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[/QUOTE]

Talking about simple why do I have to tell you for the 100th time that it is Ajacied and not Ajaxers? Nice you gave Ajax the capital letter I would never do that to juve.

[Zacharat Hennataga]

Has anyone ever got there heir to take charge of a kensai, or basiclly befcome a kensai?

[pdoan8]

Will the game permit that?

I have tried many times training Kensai and BN while I have an unassigned heir. However, I think that the game won't allow (or avoid) assigning heir to command a high risk unit like Kensai and BN.

I haven't seen a Kensai or BN start out with a commander with rank higher than 1.

[Papewaio]

Rarely play long enough to get a Legendary Sword Dojo unless I capture the ronin province that starts with one.

I would prefer four units of legendary NoD's to a single Kensai.

Numbers do help when it comes to province loyalty and in stopping the AI invading.

[Dionysus9]

In my opinion, Kensai are too "hollywood" for a realistic simulation of battle-field tactics.

One man (I don't care how well trained he is) can not fight 100's of well trained soldiers by himself. It's just rediculous.

Fun, maybe, but totally unrealistic, and I play for realism.

So I guess, I don't like Kensai.

[shingenmitch2]

For Multi ---

It seems some haven't experienced the Kensai...

look I hate them, because

#1 they are an unrealistic, fake, "gee wiz" unit.

#2 they require virtually no tactics and you don't have to know a thing about match-ups to use them. They are as simple and stupid as fire and forget missles. Pick a unit for them to attack and forget. They are the ultimate soldier and destroy the tactics and matchup-maneuver play that this game is based on, so I think they wreck the game.


BUT ---
yes they have many uses in the multi game and can be unstoppable.


Set them to H0 and save koku.

No they don't kill a lot, but that is NOT their use. They destroy enemy unit's morale, making the enemy break quicker.

Enemy units take a morale hit when they encounter your units--the Kensai included. For enemy morale penalty purposes, 1 KENSAI = 60/80/100 man unit. This is RIDICULOUS and shouldn't work this way, but it exists, and is an effective tactic if used correctly.

What's worse is this effect is amplified because Kensai require 0 space to operate and literally fight inside your other units. This packs morale hits into a concentrated space. Also you can pack 16 kensai into the space normaly filled by 1 normal unit... think about the morale hits the enemy takes and the morale boost given to your own units.

The Kensai can provide flanking and rear morale hits to the enemy because the Kensai can "slip" through enemy formations (NO OTHER UNIT CAN DO THAT) and get to their rear while your other units pin the enemy to the front.

Exhaustion doesn't seem to affect them that much, so at the end of a close battle, if u have 4 kensai they become almost invulnerable and can run around breaking the morale of remaining enemy units, forcing them to flee... you win.

In multi, if you don't guess correctly and u & ur allies have conventional armies, while ur opponents have 2 conventional armies + 1 full kensai army... u are cooked. The kensai's will hide in their ally's army and then charge through, routing ur guns and filtering through your formation to "get behind ur units." and busting their morale.



[This message has been edited by shingenmitch2 (edited 08-12-2002).]

[Mithrandir]

Quote Originally posted by Dionysus9:
In my opinion, Kensai are too "hollywood" for a realistic simulation of battle-field tactics.

One man (I don't care how well trained he is) can not fight 100's of well trained soldiers by himself. It's just rediculous.

Fun, maybe, but totally unrealistic, and I play for realism.

So I guess, I don't like Kensai.

[/QUOTE]


did you also notice that they are twice the size of a mounted warrior and can take on hordes of them without much problems, that they can get surrounded by hundreds of little men poking him with spears in the front,sides and back, and he still survives while killing them...


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[jodmeister]

Kensai...mmmmm....odd disproportionate bloke in red dress and large sword.

Maybe they should have made them same size and in a group of six like the battlefield ninja, but obviously lowering their individual strength.

[mizuYari]

Kensai as guarding the flank? And Kensai is not vulnerable to Heavy Cav or Nag Cav? This is news to me. I runover it all the time with my NagCav.

MizuYari

[pdoan8]

Kensai dies pretty quick when using alone. Kensai dies even quicker if engaged by two shock units and is very vulnerable to missile units and cavalry. However, if combine with other unit as additional shock, Kensai is deadly because Kansai can fight within other unit, has high killing rate (and I believe that Kensai also imposes morale penalty on the opponent).

A YSam (or even YAshi) with support of a Kensai is very good for protecting the flank and against cavalry by using Ysam as main block troop while Kensai attacks on the flank or rear. If against ND or WM or Kensai, I would use Kensai as main block troop and YSam as flanking troop.

[kamizaki_nurizeko]

i like to use my....SEVEN SAMURAI OF SWORD SLASHING DOOM!!!!! o_o....hehe...its funny having multiple armies thropw everything at my pumped to the max kensai and still getting whiped...saying that after playing a bit kensai suck, and ive changed my mind on ninja, they okay in fights aslong as you can put them somewhere useful, kensai are jsut a single enlarged no-dachi samurai (am i the only one who noticed that?) and the only way ide use kensai is if im not interested in fighting properly and out for an easy win or two kensai duels(my name for battles with just kensai, on both sides, all samurai movie like)

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there are two kind of killers...one is the justified murderer......the other is the justice murderer....which one are you?

[This message has been edited by kamizaki_nurizeko (edited 08-27-2002).]

[TenkiSoratoti]

hmmm i likes charging full honour kensai into honour 0 ashis, fun to watch a mass slaugter

[Vlad The Impaler]

they look as Santa http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
delivering heads taken to his master too http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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One sword to behead the white ruler sitting on the white throne in the Vatican.
One sword for the ruler who will come and unite us under the sign of the cross
with broken arms. Eleven swords to behead eleven lords and rulers of the land
united under the blue banner. A hundred swords to defend our southern
boundaries against black plague and half moon.
And one axe for me to defend my stronghold, and may I call this axe, "Bane of
Christendom" soon.

[LittleGrizzly]

Quote Originally posted by kamizaki_nurizeko:
i like to use my....SEVEN SAMURAI OF SWORD SLASHING DOOM!!!!! o_o....hehe...its funny having multiple armies thropw everything at my pumped to the max kensai and still getting whiped...saying that after playing a bit kensai suck, and ive changed my mind on ninja, they okay in fights aslong as you can put them somewhere useful, kensai are jsut a single enlarged no-dachi samurai (am i the only one who noticed that?) and the only way ide use kensai is if im not interested in fighting properly and out for an easy win or two kensai duels(my name for battles with just kensai, on both sides, all samurai movie like)

[/QUOTE]

i noticed that so whenever i saw a single unt of no-dachi it scared the hell outta me ... then i realised it was a single no-dachi



[This message has been edited by LittleGrizzly (edited 09-24-2002).]