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View Full Version : Battles: Some aspects better than MTW, some worse



Ulstan
09-27-2004, 17:24
I love the way the terrain you fight on is directly taken from the campaign map. That helps so much in feeling like it's the actual battle. Great idea !

I like the rousing speeches by the generals and the pilum throwing prior to charging by the legions.

I *love* the new seiges. Best improvement so far I think. The towns look like towns, you can station archers on the walls (instead of them milling about uselessly in the courtyard like in MTW) you can throw up ladders, sap, seige towers, mines, all kinds of great stuff.

One fight I had a spy secretly unlock the gates for me to Tarentum, and thought it would be an easy victory - alas, most of my army got incinerated by oil dropped on them as they walked in.

There's just something really cool about seing guys fight on the walls themselves.

Wish: that the defenders could mount small ballistae on the walls (as was ofen done) to fire down.

The fighting in the streets is pretty neat too. It would be neat if the enemy could somehow hide units in streets (lose the flags, not show up on minimap or something) and launch surprise attacks down sidestreets. The way the buildings you actually have (or are constructing) shows up in the city is a great touch.

The way damage to the walls carries over *exactly* to the next fight is also very very nice. (One attack on a town failed, but left the N wall in ruins with all the towers destroyed - next attack felt like I was picking up where I left off with all that damage still there, instead of starting over fresh).

Now, on to things I don't like as much

Interface issues:

-Where is the time slider bar? I want to be able to go from slow to medium to fast: not from fast, to super fast, to I-blinked-and-missed-the-fight

-Where is the toggle for the timer? I dont' always want a timer- certainly not for seiges where I am trying to sap the walls. But I do want to be able to put the timer on because sometimes the AI won't always fight well without it

-Where is my unit's morale?? I can no longer hit f1 or whatever to bring this up and see how my morale is playing out. Very frustrating. I just have to guess who has what morale - I don't even get the 'happy for flanks protected' 'happy for general' 'wavering because of enemy in rear' etc notices.

-Where are the fatigue bars? In MTW, I liked being able to see a units fatigue at a glance. Can't do that in RTW. I have to click on lots of men to find a fresh unit to throw into a hole in the lines.

-Camera controls: How do I 'tilt' the camera view? The listed buttons in the manual do not work.

-Rotating men: how do I rotate the men in a unit? (Not the unit itself). Easy to do in MTW, seeminly impossible in RTW. In MTW, I could have any old bunch of men change their facing and turn around in place to face a new threat. In RTW, I can't even get my triarri do that. I can only get the entire formation to slowly swivel around. Doing a 180 is a sloooow and laborious process. Sadly, that's pretty much always needed because of super cavalry (see below)

These are all interface issues which should help so much and should be easy fixes :)

Design issues:

-Men run/charge too fast. I do not feel the walking speed is too fast at all - but charging running is super super fast. Fleeing men seem as fast as horses !

-Horses walk too slow, charge/run too fast. Horses take forever to get somewhere unless you tell them to run or charge, then they get there instantaneously.

-Charging on a whole is far too deadly. Instead of tactics, it's more of a 'who clicks charge first' game. In MTW, a well set up line with anchored flanks and the genearl providing morale could take a charge (even from an enemy outnumbering it) and hold on for quite a while in a melee brawl while your elite units tried to pierce a flank.

In RTW, they fight for 20s and then one side is fleeing off the map. O.o I can't really get the 'infantry line' to stand and fight for any decent length of time

-Cavalry ahistorically powerful. Milita light cav even, and my own light cav, go through infantry like butter. Whammo, men scattered everywhere.

- I think units need to get worse and worse morale from just fleeing and fleeing from the enemy. In MTW, if your unit spent too long running away from the enemy, they eventually got scared and fled.

In RTW, I chased one unit of skirmishers (who move at light speed forever) around 3 sides of the map, never catching them, and them never turning tail and fleeing.

Colovion
09-27-2004, 17:59
-Where is my unit's morale?? I can no longer hit f1 or whatever to bring this up and see how my morale is playing out. Very frustrating. I just have to guess who has what morale - I don't even get the 'happy for flanks protected' 'happy for general' 'wavering because of enemy in rear' etc notices.

-Where are the fatigue bars? In MTW, I liked being able to see a units fatigue at a glance. Can't do that in RTW. I have to click on lots of men to find a fresh unit to throw into a hole in the lines.

-Camera controls: How do I 'tilt' the camera view? The listed buttons in the manual do not work.

I agree VERY much with these - they're annoyances which weren't there in MTW and are unacceptable to have be as concerns now. The Camera is a very big problem with me as I find that I use the RTS cam because you can get further out with it to see where troops are but it can't tilt so whenever I play a hill battle I have to change to the Total War Cam which can tilt up and down but is so close to the ground that I can't see what is going on around me.

Very... very annoying

Morindin
09-27-2004, 23:22
I disagree with many of your disagrees.

Firstly charging is NOT deadly. Try charging a group of ANY hoplites with say Principes. They die. Infact, it's much more prudent to throw your Pilums.
Cavalry charges are deadly initially but then the Cavalry gets ripped to shreds. Many units however are MADE to charge, mostly barbarians, and charging works best. On the other hand if your Romans then charging ISNT your best option.

The time slider bar is pretty nitpicky if you ask me. I hardly ever use it anyway in RTW which means that the game is an improvement over MTW in that respect.

Moral is more simplified here. Really I KNEW they would be happy if they flanks were protected in MTW quite easily - I didnt need that flashing bar to be told (which just cluttered up my screen). I prefer this system as it takes away from the whole number crunching that distracts from game play. Really your general wouldnt know exactly how much moral his troops in numbers anyway.

Rotating men. Yes the new system is more clunky but I've found if you're looking at the enemy troops your men usually face them on their own accord. If you really want to do it use right mouse click-drag.
As for the title, it doesnt work unless your locked onto a unit using the Delete key. Very annoying I agree!

Cavalry should canter instead of their current walk speed but all in all their running speed is fairly good. Infact its hardly as fast as you seem to make out. Horses are bloody fast, have you ever ridden one at a gallop? I have.

I have yet to experiance a 20s fight. Against Gauls, yeah they rout quickly but it SAYS THAT IN THEIR DESCRIPTION. My Roman infantry holds the line quite well, and the better the general the longer they hold the line.
Infact the timer ran out on my yesterday in RTW which has NEVER happened before in MTW.

Cavalry is not powerful at all, infact im always replacing my cavalry units because they always get beaten up, and killing the enemy cavalry is usually pretty easy even with Histari. Also the AI pays much more attention to your cavalry than it ever did in MTW.
The higher up the tech tree you get the worse cavalry gets too, I might add.
Remember most of the fights you have aginst the AI are pathetic 0 star generals who, and I quote, "are being lead by muling infants"

Ulstan
09-28-2004, 16:32
Good to hear from another viewpoint Morindin :2thumbsup:

I haven't had much of a problem with hoplites tbh - put the hastati in a long 2 deep line and that outflanks a single hoplite unit. If only the AI would watch his flanks better :)

"Infact the timer ran out on my yesterday in RTW which has NEVER happened before in MTW."

yeah same :yes: Actually it ran out on me twice. Oh well those seiges will have to wait another day.

"Really your general wouldnt know exactly how much moral his troops in numbers anyway"

Well, true. And I don't mind too much not seeing little notices telling me how the men are feeling. (By this time I can pretty much guess). But I do miss being able to check all my men's morale and see how much a morale boost they are getting from virtues, etc.

But yeah, I keep forgetting many of my fights are with my 8 star general vs like 1 or 2 star gallic armies full of guys with no armor.

The fights with the greeks last longer and are more fun I think :)

I just want cavalry to walk a little fast and infantry to run a little slower - looking forward to progressing up the tech tree and for light cavalry to not be quite so powerful.

I just won't use any except for my generals unit and enjoy the enemy using his at first I guess :) Makes things more interesting.