Roman: Brutii

[GreatEmperor]

The Lather-rise-repeat fashion is a very stupid tactic I think, because you could make lots of soldiers from the people you exterminated. If there is a big chance that the city will rebel you should only enslave their population once. That would drain enough people from the city to ensure it's safe.
And don't just give a city to your rival, try to sell it. The AI will often buy a just captured city for a good price where they get thrown out of the next turn.

[The Stranger]

Earlier threads note its the buildings.

This can lead to interesting tactical choices.

If your're keeping the city:

Knock almost everything down to minimize threat or accept some risk with faster "turn-around" for the city.

Knock down the wall only, then move out, let it rebel and exterminate. Some advise doing this in a lather-rise-repeat fashion until the pop is too low to matter. (Side note: while a good gaming tactic, I find this abhorent).


If you don't want/need the city:

Knock down the money and happiness buildings but leave the advanced training grounds intact, then give it to a rival faction and let them bleed.

Knock down all the buildings and leave the inheritors with a long rebuild task.

you cant destroy walls

[rotorgun]

Not meant to be off-handed.

Starting the CW may not be a bad idea, but if that is your goal then set your defenses elsewhere and pre-set your attack groups to hammer the Julies hard. You'll want to cut them in two to defeat in detail or take a couple of economically crippling locales. Don't overextend at first, of course, since you get visited by lots of roman armies and you'll need to chew them up.

Taking Asia Minor would be sound, and probably a bit safer unless you see a real weak link in the Julies territories, but be sure to establish a strong defense line in the passes for when the horse/chariot boys come after you. If you go this route, consider an expedition around the Black sea to make it an additional trading lake for you.

Wild option: if you have/can build the fleets and forces, a massive assault on all the Eggy home territories might catch them with their forces forward toward Pontus. The Nile do be rich too, if you can stabilize it despite the cultural penalty, and there are some good defensive choke points...

Well...I've decided to take the plunge and attempt your "wild option" approach. I managed to smooth things over for a little while with Pontus. I opted to give them Sardis, after I finished plundering it to the virtual stone age of course. For this they agreed to continue their attack against Egypt and we exchanged map information. Do they always drive such a hard bargain?

The Senate, which is at war with Egypt, along with the other Romans actually ordered me to blockade the port at Cyprus. I went one step further and invaded the island with the two armies I pulled out of Ionia. With my control of the Mare Aegaeum, including Creta, I should have little trouble supporting my attack on Aegyptus proper. This is a small step true...but with such steps an empire is formed. The real problem will come latter when Pontus figures out that I am not an ally after all, but in actuality a rival for the riches of the Pharoahs.

The bellum civilii will just have to wait.

[rotorgun]

Has anyone ever been attacked by an ally, tried to negotiate a ceasefire, even offering them a key city, only to be turned down and then had that same faction agree to become a protectorate? All during the same negotiation? That is what happened with Pontus in the campaign....very odd.

I am now at war with Eygypt. My strategy has been to make a two pronged invasion, one in Cyrenaica to curb the Scipii ambitions, the other in Judea, to stop Pontus. Both Cyrene and Jeruselam are mine now. There was a bloody fight with Egypt for Siwa also, but it is indeed under Brutii control as well. From here I hope to put the squeeze play on Alexandria, Memphis, and Thebes in that order. I will have to take a few years rebuilding my attack forces as they were quite whittled down after many desperate fights.
:duel:
Man, the Egyptians are tough! I didn't exactly care for the Cappadocian Cavalry of Pontus either, as I had to engage them in a few battles before the peace. Any suggestions on how to best take out the three Egyptian cities?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Has anyone ever been attacked by an ally, tried to negotiate a ceasefire, even offering them a key city, only to be turned down and then had that same faction agree to become a protectorate? All during the same negotiation? That is what happened with Pontus in the campaign....very odd.[?QUOTE]

And yet other nations will fight you tooth and nail from their last village -- capable of producing only peasants -- rather than accept 10k denar and protectorate status...

[QUOTE=Rotorgun]I am now at war with Eygypt. My strategy has been to make a two pronged invasion, one in Cyrenaica to curb the Scipii ambitions, the other in Judea, to stop Pontus. Both Cyrene and Jeruselam are mine now. There was a bloody fight with Egypt for Siwa also, but it is indeed under Brutii control as well. From here I hope to put the squeeze play on Alexandria, Memphis, and Thebes in that order. I will have to take a few years rebuilding my attack forces as they were quite whittled down after many desperate fights.
:duel:
Man, the Egyptians are tough! I didn't exactly care for the Cappadocian Cavalry of Pontus either, as I had to engage them in a few battles before the peace. Any suggestions on how to best take out the three Egyptian cities?

Wait a few more years and simulcast them -- moving by sea if you have to. You'll still have some bloody fighting, but hammering them all three at once gives you the edge. Use your deeper pockets.

[pezhetairoi]

I always attack Egypt by sea, landing next to Alexandria and moving to take Memphis first, before all others. It's the fastest growing, it's the most advanced, and it's got the pyramids which will solve all your Egyptian problems in the future. It also tends to catch the enemy off balance. I usually fight Egypt on limited means (One, at most 2 fullstacks) so I can't do a simultaneous attack. Nevertheless, I strike for Alexandria and Memphis by sea while another army takes down the Levant. Those are their key cities. To hell with Siwa.

[rotorgun]

I always attack Egypt by sea, landing next to Alexandria and moving to take Memphis first, before all others. It's the fastest growing, it's the most advanced, and it's got the pyramids which will solve all your Egyptian problems in the future. It also tends to catch the enemy off balance. I usually fight Egypt on limited means (One, at most 2 fullstacks) so I can't do a simultaneous attack. Nevertheless, I strike for Alexandria and Memphis by sea while another army takes down the Levant. Those are their key cities. To hell with Siwa.

I appreciate the advice. I have already taken Siwa, and Cyrene to give the Scipii pause. It must have produced quite a reaction as they have sent two armies into Egypt to try to get into the act. I'm going to try to tempt them into coming to my aid as reinforcements when I besiege Memphis. :charge:

I agree quite completely with you concerning the tactical reasons for taking Memphis first; the enemies supply lines being cut in the middle is a good reason for such an approach. But why is taking the Pyramids such a blow to the Egyptians? Does this cause them serious unrest in their remaining cities?

[Trithemius]

I definately agree that it is an outrageous act to exterminate a population without cause, even if it is only a game. I only do so with the greatest reluctance when there is a good reason. In the case of this village, I took it back after giving them every chance to surrender. They sallied forth on the last turn of the siege, were defeated, and then led to the execution field (after a Roman tribunal, of course) ~:rolleyes:

Still, to whom is your greatest responsibility? To the conquered enemy, or to the soldiers who pay the price for your mercy should the enemy rebel?

I tend to do a lot of exterminating, if the city is especially large. I am sorely disappointed that you cannot tear down the walls of the city or destroy the agricultural improvements as this kind of thing was something that conquered people were subjected to, even if it does seem a little distasteful to our modern sensibilities.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Hope you're playing BI as a horder -- you've got the attitude right. Who cares that they are human beings, they're not us so scrag 'em. It is much more game efficient that way, of course.

[rotorgun]

Still, to whom is your greatest responsibility? To the conquered enemy, or to the soldiers who pay the price for your mercy should the enemy rebel?

I tend to do a lot of exterminating, if the city is especially large. I am sorely disappointed that you cannot tear down the walls of the city or destroy the agricultural improvements as this kind of thing was something that conquered people were subjected to, even if it does seem a little distasteful to our modern sensibilities.

No, I am not a "bleeding heart" liberal, nor an ultra right wing conservative. I do have a sense of the history this game preserves, so I try to use a "Roman" approach when dealing with the enemy. Rome was almost always sure to offer generous terms to her subjected enemies initially. She also exhibited great patience in allowing rebellious populations a chance to reconcile. It was only after such measures were taken that extermination was resorted to. Witness how many wars were fought with Carthage before the city was finally destroyed. Jeruselam was in a state of rebellion for nearly a century before being sacked in 70 AD.

I think that Rome used a fairly modern approach in this regard. They were far too pactical a people to see such wanton destruction as anything but inevitably wasteful in men, resources, teasure, and time for whatever political clout it could bring them. I think that your enemies will only get tougher if they are backed against the wall. Do you think that the AI acts in such a way? Your actions pose an interesting argument indeed.

[pezhetairoi]

Rotorgun: It would appear that capturing the Pyramids does some nasty things to egyptian cities remaining, especially if they're large, and you throw in a spy or two to help things along. Egypt's cities are quite unrest-prone. It varies from campaign to campaign though. I always find it useful to capture memphis for the chance that some cities will turn white (they usually do once I capture a few more cities and their big remaining ones become incapable of being garrisoned sufficiently).

[Trithemius]

No, I am not a "bleeding heart" liberal, nor an ultra right wing conservative. I do have a sense of the history this game preserves, so I try to use a "Roman" approach when dealing with the enemy. Rome was almost always sure to offer generous terms to her subjected enemies initially. She also exhibited great patience in allowing rebellious populations a chance to reconcile. It was only after such measures were taken that extermination was resorted to. Witness how many wars were fought with Carthage before the city was finally destroyed. Jeruselam was in a state of rebellion for nearly a century before being sacked in 70 AD.

Hey now, I never said "bleeding heart", I was simply asking about to whom you felt your duty of care was primarily towards. I feel that most rulers are motivated by prudence, and if prudence dictates actions that others deem atrocities then that is simply the way of it.

I put it to you that Roman tolerance was the adoption of expedient political options, not the support for a particular moral position. Their tolerance, when it occurred, was enforced by circumstance, not respect.

This doesn't make their actions any more "right" to us, of course, but I would argue that your examples of partial mercy (that is saying that it is alright to react with bloody atrocity after a certain amount of clemency) is less laudable than they might first appear. I would suggest that is an act of moral hypocrisy; to say that atrocity is wrong, except under certain circumstances or with "sufficient provocation". However, as mentioned, I don't believe that the Romans hesitated due to such a dilemma, but rather due to other factors.


I think that Rome used a fairly modern approach in this regard. They were far too pactical a people to see such wanton destruction as anything but inevitably wasteful in men, resources, teasure, and time for whatever political clout it could bring them. I think that your enemies will only get tougher if they are backed against the wall. Do you think that the AI acts in such a way? Your actions pose an interesting argument indeed.

I see extermination to be the application of the Machiavellian principle of never doing an enemy a small injury. You don't go to war with people piecemeal, if you have undertaken a course of violence and conquest then, ultimately, you are commiting yourself to their destruction.

I am also extremely leery of classifying the Romans as modern, since concepts of "modernity" for the vast majority of people of European cultural origin draws upon Christianity pretty heavily.

I would be pleased if the AI in the game responded to brutality in kind, as this would make an awful lot of sense. Will that stop me acting in such a way? No, almost certainly not, I would still rather settle a town "good and loyal settler-citizens" over time than to leave it a weak point in the frontier; I would happily tear down the government buildings and replace them with my own, if I was able to. It's only fair and reasonable that my opponents respond in kind, but I never offered them clemency and certainly did not expect it from them. Thus is the nature of warfare intended to create a homogenous cultural and political entity. Refusal to join peacefully, or for economic incentives (ahem, bribes ~;)) means that the rights of the opponent are forfeit. They become part of the Empire; all of them now, or a lot fewer of them, later.

I should note: in Medieval Total War I played rather differently; I just like tp get into "character" as a self-righteous imperialist. ~;)

[Trithemius]

Rotorgun: It would appear that capturing the Pyramids does some nasty things to egyptian cities remaining, especially if they're large, and you throw in a spy or two to help things along. Egypt's cities are quite unrest-prone. It varies from campaign to campaign though. I always find it useful to capture memphis for the chance that some cities will turn white (they usually do once I capture a few more cities and their big remaining ones become incapable of being garrisoned sufficiently).

I bet they are really handy if the Egyptians have expanded far and settled in well (building Egyptian culture government buildings in a lot of other settlements), as well as being useful in their "intended" use of keeping high-growth Nile provinces cheerful. Early conquest is a must if you are ruling from afar like the Brutii pretty much have to.

[rotorgun]

[QUOTE=Trithemius]Hey now, I never said "bleeding heart", I was simply asking about to whom you felt your duty of care was primarily towards. I feel that most rulers are motivated by prudence, and if prudence dictates actions that others deem atrocities then that is simply the way of it.

Not to worry about the "bleeding heart" comment. I was only clarifying my position, and yes, I didn't exactly answer the question about my sense of duty to the troops. Of course, they would be my first priority. I guess that's why I tend to conduct full length sieges, inviting the enemy to sally forth only after being weakened by the effects of the siege. This is my way of avoiding as many initial casualties in the taking of a settlement.


I put it to you that Roman tolerance was the adoption of expedient political options, not the support for a particular moral position. Their tolerance, when it occurred, was enforced by circumstance, not respect.

This doesn't make their actions any more "right" to us, of course, but I would argue that your examples of partial mercy (that is saying that it is alright to react with bloody atrocity after a certain amount of clemency) is less laudable than they might first appear. I would suggest that is an act of moral hypocrisy; to say that atrocity is wrong, except under certain circumstances or with "sufficient provocation". However, as mentioned, I don't believe that the Romans hesitated due to such a dilemma, but rather due to other factors.

Interesting points. However, I am thinking more along the lines of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki examples. The act of atrocity must serve the purpose of crushing the will of an enemy to resist, thereby ending the conflict sooner and reducing casualties to one's side in the process. This was the "justification" for the two examples I cite. As for moral hypocrisy, the whole notion of justification of violence is only designed to make us feel better about going to war with each other. So I would agree with you that that there were other factors at stake for Rome than moral issues. I only wonder that a people who took such pains to respect their gods would not have some type of moral stance.


I see extermination to be the application of the Machiavellian principle of never doing an enemy a small injury. You don't go to war with people piecemeal, if you have undertaken a course of violence and conquest then, ultimately, you are commiting yourself to their destruction.

I agree. A piecemeal approach only prolongs the violence.


I am also extremely leery of classifying the Romans as modern, since concepts of "modernity" for the vast majority of people of European cultural origin draws upon Christianity pretty heavily.

I disagree here, or I should say that many of our notions of modernity we owe to them. The Roman system is one of the foundations of western culture. Many of their political, social, and military concepts are woven into the very fabric of our our "modern" world. I would argue that the founding fathers of the United States paid far greater attention to the Roman system of government than in any Christian principals when looking for a model for their "experiment" in democracy. Europe too owes a great deal to the Romans for their example.


Thus is the nature of warfare intended to create a homogenous cultural and political entity. Refusal to join peacefully, or for economic incentives (ahem, bribes ~;)) means that the rights of the opponent are forfeit. They become part of the Empire; all of them now, or a lot fewer of them, later.

Your statement about refusal implies that you would also wish to avoid fighting when you can. This is admirable, and worthy of a great commander.:bow:

Thanks for the great discussion. I also say thanks for the advice about the Egyptians. I hadn't thought about the distance factor until you had mentioned it in you last post.

[Trithemius]

Not to worry about the "bleeding heart" comment. I was only clarifying my position, and yes, I didn't exactly answer the question about my sense of duty to the troops. Of course, they would be my first priority. I guess that's why I tend to conduct full length sieges, inviting the enemy to sally forth only after being weakened by the effects of the siege. This is my way of avoiding as many initial casualties in the taking of a settlement.

Like to sap a bit, then storm undefended walls with foot to take the towers, then advance through the streets. It can take a while, but it's kinda fun to take a city with epic walls without artillery and as few casualties as possible. ~:)


Interesting points. However, I am thinking more along the lines of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki examples. The act of atrocity must serve the purpose of crushing the will of an enemy to resist, thereby ending the conflict sooner and reducing casualties to one's side in the process. This was the "justification" for the two examples I cite. As for moral hypocrisy, the whole notion of justification of violence is only designed to make us feel better about going to war with each other. So I would agree with you that that there were other factors at stake for Rome than moral issues. I only wonder that a people who took such pains to respect their gods would not have some type of moral stance.

I think the Romans certainly had a moral system, it's hard for any society to not have one, but I think that assuming it is just like ours is the big problem. This sort of problem is pretty common in history, understanding the past - and especially how people thought back then - can be awfully complex if we only have limited evidence to go on.

There is a really interesting documentary that talks quite a bit about the bombing campaigns against Japan in the Second World War. It's called "The Fog of War" and it won an Academy award a few years back so you might have heard of it. It's basically a long interview with Robert S. Macnamara who, amongst other things, was one of the people reccommended unrestricted firebombing of civilian targets. Pretty interesting stuff if you're interested in the morality of war, and similar topics.


I disagree here, or I should say that many of our notions of modernity we owe to them. The Roman system is one of the foundations of western culture. Many of their political, social, and military concepts are woven into the very fabric of our our "modern" world. I would argue that the founding fathers of the United States paid far greater attention to the Roman system of government than in any Christian principals when looking for a model for their "experiment" in democracy. Europe too owes a great deal to the Romans for their example.

I'm very unsure about this myself, certainly what people perceived as Roman (and Hellenistic) ideals influenced such people, but I think that there was a lot of "filtering" before it got to the Founding Fathers. Neo-classical buildings where constructed to look stark and white, because that is how the Parthenon, etc, looked - but the builders in the 18th and 19th centuries did not have the archaeology to know that the Greeks had orginally painted and/or gilded a lot of this buildings so they were quite gaudy. I expect that Plato's Res Publica had more influence on them than the historical Roman Republic.


Your statement about refusal implies that you would also wish to avoid fighting when you can. This is admirable, and worthy of a great commander.

Cheers! Bribery is a handy way of keeping that treasury low too! ~;)


Thanks for the great discussion. I also say thanks for the advice about the Egyptians. I hadn't thought about the distance factor until you had mentioned it in you last post.

No problem! :bow:

[rotorgun]

Rotorgun: It would appear that capturing the Pyramids does some nasty things to egyptian cities remaining, especially if they're large, and you throw in a spy or two to help things along. Egypt's cities are quite unrest-prone. It varies from campaign to campaign though. I always find it useful to capture memphis for the chance that some cities will turn white (they usually do once I capture a few more cities and their big remaining ones become incapable of being garrisoned sufficiently).

Thanks for the great advice. I just captured Memphis during today's session and boy howdy did the unrest factor go up in the remaining Egyptian cities. I'll keep a watch for the development of rebellion which I can exploit. I also set my Pontic protectorate against Egypt also. Perhaps they will win me Palmyra, which is adjacent to their lands. I now have 53 provinces with the inclusion of my protectorate's in the equation. If I can attain the Nile Delta, Thebais, and Sinai in the Middle East, as well as capturing Tribus Silurii and Hibernia in the Isles, I will be in good shape to make a blitzkrieg attack on Rome for the win. I will launch similtaneous attacks on the Julli and Scipii to distract them from my main assault.

I appreciate all the help.~:cheers:

[pezhetairoi]

rotorgun: you do not keep a watch for development of rebellions. You help them along. Throw 5-6 spies into each city if you have the time and watch the population start fighting with town militia and setting carts and wheelbarrows on fire.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Careful folks, if this discussion gets more philosophical it will get moved to the Monastery and if you drop the "t" of cart it will get moved to the Backroom discussion of the French riots.~D

[rotorgun]

Pezetairoi,

Do you recommend using some assasins to help sabotage their buildings to help the spies? Why do spies increase the likleyhood of unrest in a settlement? I have never considered the use of spies to cause rebellion until this discussion. That's what I enjoy about this forum, the outstanding advice I've been able to recieve from the membership. Great job everyone!

[rotorgun]

Careful folks, if this discussion gets more philosophical it will get moved to the Monastery and if you drop the "t" of cart it will get moved to the Backroom discussion of the French riots.~D

Sortie les canon...sil vous plais!

[pezhetairoi]

I am not a fan of assassins. They fail far too often, and the really good ones that are left after a hundred turns or two are too few and far between to actually do much damage. I don't recommend using sabotage since damaged buildings can just be rebuilt in the next turn. Better agents. Lots of them.

[King Macedon]

My strategy to Brutii is to ally with Macedon and only counquer the greek cites. If you do so, you will be able to send a army to carthage and one to the gauls to cut of the scriipi and julii expansion.

[rotorgun]

My strategy to Brutii is to ally with Macedon and only counquer the greek cites. If you do so, you will be able to send a army to carthage and one to the gauls to cut of the scriipi and julii expansion.

This was my essential strategy early on in my campaign. I modified it later after I conquered the Greek cities. I allied with Macedon until this was accomplished, then crushed them also. Thrace was next, then I invaded Gual to stymie the Julii. I have conqured Syracuse in Sicily to give me a base to expand against the Scipii. My goal with them is to isolate them in North Africa. Once all is accomplished, and I have over 55 provinces or more, I'll attack Rome, Capua, and Sicily simultaneously while defending against the Julii in Italy and the Scipii in North Africa. A quick strike will against the Senate should give my the win.

[Trithemius]

Careful folks, if this discussion gets more philosophical it will get moved to the Monastery and if you drop the "t" of cart it will get moved to the Backroom discussion of the French riots.~D

Hey! We've calmed down now. :)

rotorgun: I also encourage using spies to create revolts - unless the revolt would make a bigger army. I'm curious but do damaged buildings produce troops when a settlement revolts? That is to say, I know you can ensure that town only produces rebel peasants by knocking down all the other structures, but if those structures are just damaged (even 100% damaged) can they be used to create new rebel troops? If so, you can use assassins to knock down the unit buildings and then the temples and happiness buildings, while using your spies to incite revolts.

[Trithemius]

I am not a fan of assassins. They fail far too often, and the really good ones that are left after a hundred turns or two are too few and far between to actually do much damage. I don't recommend using sabotage since damaged buildings can just be rebuilt in the next turn. Better agents. Lots of them.

Teams of assassins work. If a spy has infiltrated the settlement then you can target properly and even moderately experienced assassins can get 95% success on sabotage.

[King Macedon]

This was my essential strategy early on in my campaign. I modified it later after I conquered the Greek cities. I allied with Macedon until this was accomplished, then crushed them also. Thrace was next, then I invaded Gual to stymie the Julii. I have conqured Syracuse in Sicily to give me a base to expand against the Scipii. My goal with them is to isolate them in North Africa. Once all is accomplished, and I have over 55 provinces or more, I'll attack Rome, Capua, and Sicily simultaneously while defending against the Julii in Italy and the Scipii in North Africa. A quick strike will against the Senate should give my the win.
Well, it sounds like an good strategy. I often send three armies already at the begining. I like to build up my armies of quantity more than quality. My armies bases on pesants, town watch, hastati, velites and mercenaries. :duel:

[rotorgun]

Hey! We've calmed down now. :)

rotorgun: I'm curious but do damaged buildings produce troops when a settlement revolts? That is to say, I know you can ensure that town only produces rebel peasants by knocking down all the other structures, but if those structures are just damaged (even 100% damaged) can they be used to create new rebel troops? If so, you can use assassins to knock down the unit buildings and then the temples and happiness buildings, while using your spies to incite revolts.

As far as I know, if a building is damaged, even partially, it cannot produce the types of troops or benifits it is designed for. This is what I aimed for by the use of multiple assasins sabotaging particular structures before I besieged the settlement. While under siege the structures cannot be repaired, so I would momentarily lift the siege, sabotage the same, if not already 100% destroyed, or a different building and then besiege the town again during the same turn. Trithemius, you're correct about the use of spies to increase the accuracy of the attacks while encouraging unrest. I did notice that my success rate went up dramatically when a spy was also present.
:hide:
I believe that the cultural difference of your enemy target influences the sucess rate of your agents as well, in addition to their subterfuge ability. I noticed this when using them against the Middle Eastern factions (no offence intended any Islamic players out there). I may be wrong, but it is something to ponder. Maybe someone can shed further light on this anomaly.

[pezhetairoi]

well, never thought of using assassins on cities that already had spies in them. Brain circuitry problems, eh :-P

[GreatEmperor]

I believe that the cultural difference of your enemy target influences the sucess rate of your agents as well, in addition to their subterfuge ability. I noticed this when using them against the Middle Eastern factions (no offence intended any Islamic players out there). I may be wrong, but it is something to ponder. Maybe someone can shed further light on this anomaly.
I tried this and I believe you're right, it also happened to me.

[pezhetairoi]

so you're saying roman assassins used against parthia would be significantly worse off than if I used them against Macedon, that it?

[GreatEmperor]

In my case it was and also in Rotorgun's so it will be wierd if it isn't the same in your game.

[Craterus]

Without knowing enough about the Eastern Cultures of the time, I could only assume that it was to do with easier access to the general/leader in question.

EDIT: That, of course, is quite an in-depth sort of thing to put in the game, because any differences would have been very small, if there was any difference.

All important persons had guards back then. The idea that in some cultures, important people were able to walk the streets without too much trouble.

[King Macedon]

I had newer been Imperator. How is it to be one? Will your fraction automaticly transform to SPQR? And vill it be a senate?

[Kickius Buttius]

I am in the middle of the strangest Brutii game (H/H) that I have ever seen. I just had to post this after my most recent turn.

The situation was this: I hold Caralis (beat the Julii there), my two towns in Italy, Apollonia, Salona, and Kydonia. I am building an army near Apollonia and two by Kydonia with the intention of simultaneously attacking Rhodes, Thermon, and Sparta all in the first turn of war with the Greeks. I am at war with Carthage, but nobody else.

I look on the map and see that Segestica is held by rebels and I figure I can just walk an army up and take it. I grab it. Next turn, it is beseiged by a Gaul army. This doesn't surprise me too much, since the Julii have an army that has spent the whole game sitting forelornly outside Caralis and, rather than invading Gaul, have simply built forts all over their lands. I defeat the Gauls.

Next turn, Segestica is beseiged again. By Dacia. I defeat the Dacians. Next turn, besieged again- this time by Thrace. I defeat the Thracians. I am now at war with Carthage, Gaul, Dacia, and Thrace, as well as planning to attack Greece. More foes than I wanted, but okay. A few turns go by.

I go up to look at Segestica and see:

To the northwest, about a turn away, a full stack Gaul army led by their heir
To the east, about a turn away, a full stack Dacian army led by their heir
To the southeast, about a turn away, a full stack Thracian army, led by- you guessed it- their heir
To the south, about a turn away, a full stack Greek army led by their heir

When I pull my jaw off the floor, I say to myself, "Wow, only missing Carthage." I then look off the coast and discover a Carthaginian fleet packed with units including elephants and- wait for it- their faction heir.

I've never seen so many command stars in all my life.

I did the only sensible thing: destroyed every building I could, raised the taxes to very high, and headed my army for Salona. After the earlier battles, I was down to about four town watch units, my general, and a bunch of remnants of merc units.

The end result: Dacia took the town, Carthage's fleet headed for home. The moment Dacia took the town, Thracian and Gallic diplomats near other cities offered me a ceasefire. The Greek army attacked and mangled me on the field of battle, setting off the war I'd been planning with them anyway.

Wierd, huh? Anybody else ever been attacked by five faction heirs at once?

[rotorgun]

Without knowing enough about the Eastern Cultures of the time, I could only assume that it was to do with easier access to the general/leader in question.

EDIT: That, of course, is quite an in-depth sort of thing to put in the game, because any differences would have been very small, if there was any difference.

All important persons had guards back then. The idea that in some cultures, important people were able to walk the streets without too much trouble.

My thinking on this was drifting in this direction too. I think that it's a matter of three factors which make up a character's ability to resist assasination.

1. Character- traits and abilities.

2. Retinues- ancillaries who help keep the family member safe.

3. Cultural differences- an assasin from Germania would probably tend to stand out in a place such as Jeruselam...no?

Whatever the case, isn't it outstanding that this game operates on such a detalied level? I like how many of the aspects of international politics and grand strategy are included in RTW.

[GreatEmperor]

I had newer been Imperator. How is it to be one? Will your fraction automaticly transform to SPQR? And vill it be a senate?

No, you'll just get a message you've won with a video sequence and you will be asked if you want to play further or the stop.

[King Macedon]

Ok! Anyway I have just two popularity points in the senate so I think I will be outlawed soon. They hate me for declare peace with the Gauls and because I never care abouat senate missons. I am in the year 250 AD and have conquer The greeks and the Trache, I am in war with Dacia and Macedon.

[pezhetairoi]

kickius buttius has earned the funniest campaign post of the year, methinks. Mein gott. That's the saddest thing that could have happened to anyone. Tip: you should bribe that forlorn Julii army sitting outside your Sardinian village, if you can.

[Kickius Buttius]

Just did last night. That Julii army is on the way to help my frantic efforts on the mainland. I've been able to conquer most of the Greek cities, which has won me some breathing room, but The Julii have done so little that Gaul and the Britons have between them eliminated Germania and, recently, Dacia. Macedonia is long gone and Thrace is down to one city (I think Byzantium).

Nice ending to the Segistica situation, though: The town rebelled against the Dacians and then somehow reverted to my control. I'd heard sometimes that can happen if a town rebels against the Rebel faction, but I had never seen it before. The truly nice thing was that it came under my control with a whole host of gold chevroned peasants.

[rotorgun]

Just did last night.
Nice ending to the Segistica situation, though: The town rebelled against the Dacians and then somehow reverted to my control. I'd heard sometimes that can happen if a town rebels against the Rebel faction, but I had never seen it before. The truly nice thing was that it came under my control with a whole host of gold chevroned peasants.

I agree with Pezhetairoi; your previous post was a belly laugh. I'm sure it wasn't for you when you were going through it. You are to be commended for your ability to deal with such a desperate situation of being attacked by five large armies, all led by faction heirs, and managing to come out on top. As for the town of Segistica reverting to your control, it's probably because your faction was the last to control it, so it was your people doing the rebelling. A nice bonus to recieve the peasants. That's probably why so many factions wanted this town- good facilities. I faced such a force of rebelling Britons in Deva during my campaign. It was interesting to watch them taking on my legionary cohorts and actually defeating them in a stand up fight! had to pulverize them and exterminate the population to regain order. Good luck during the rest of your campaign.

Strength and honor!

[King Macedon]

I have choosen Byzatium as my capitol. There, i have buildit up to a huge city with urban baracks! Strange is that i can recuit urban cohort, altrougth
they havent been any marian reforms yet!

[Craterus]

You can recruit Praetorian Cohort. Not Urbans.

[GreatEmperor]

Can you build Praetorian Cohorts before the Marius Reforms than?

[Craterus]

:rtwyes:

[pezhetairoi]

You can get praetorian cohorts before marian reforms. But in vanilla that is not supposed to happen. (Wuss. :D) Edit it out.

[rotorgun]

Ok, here we go....

I have finally eliminated the dreaded Egyptians! I had a little help (very little) from my Pontic protectorate (now ex, but more on that later), but essentially followed the advice of Pezhetairoi to take Memphis first. They were a snap once the Pyramids were in my control. I also owe some credit to Seamus Fermanagh for the idea of simulcasting them. The combination of these approaches was the culmination of divide and conquer. Hats off to these clever chaps!

I thought, in my imperial glee, that I would now be able to begin my blitzkrieg attack on Rome for the win. Thinking I now had more than the required 50 provinces. With the British Isles completly occupied, all of Germania, Greece, Thrace, Dacia, Illyria, Egypt, and half of Gaul under my banner; Syracuse Tarentum, Croton, and Pergamum building large armies for my bid for Italy seemed like a recipe for sucess. Imagine my suprise when Pontus began using many spies and assasins in an attempt to cause rebellion in Petra and Jeruselam. When I assasinated a few of thier agents it must have cancelled the protectorship! Of course this means I am now ten provinces to the poorer, posessing only fortyfive.

To add insult to injury, the Senate ordered me to capture Bostra after it rebelled through Pontus' mismanagement. In order to accomplish the mission, I had to remake an alliance with the cutthroats, as they were also trying to lay siege to the city. When I had the right amount of siege equipment built, Pontus attacked with my forces as reinforcements. Like a fool, I went through most of the work in getting to the city square (well...they did take on the lion's share of enemy forces) only to see the AI award them the city! On the very next turn, the Senate ordered me out of Nabatea so as not to alarm our so called ally of Rome!

So what is the consensus? Should I attack Pontus, or enlist thier aid against the other Roman factions? Personally, I am for crushing the Cappadocian, camel riding, Zoarastrianistic dogs myself.
:charge:

[Kickius Buttius]

I don't see how you can allow such insolence to go unpunished.

Congrats on beating Egypt. They are always a pain.

[Craterus]

Or you could go for the interesting approach and leave them. There are five provinces on Italy anyway.

[rotorgun]

After considering both of the previous proposals, I shall first start a good war with Pontus, in which I shall attempt to involve my brother Romans in as well. When they are good and committed, I shall attack Sicily, Campania, Ariminium, and Latium simultaneously. My main assault will be against Latium with my two best armies. Once I capture Rome it should be decided, as long as I have the fifty provinces required.

One question remains:
Do I have to move my faction heir to Rome to be declared Imperator to win, or is just capturing the city enough?
:duel:

[gardibolt]

Just take the city; you can even do it with a mere captain and still win if you have the requisite 50 provinces.

[GreatEmperor]

Yep. I did it with a captain and after I took Rome with it, I could promote him to general!
Was that just luck or is it normal that your captain can be promoted after he took Rome?

[gardibolt]

Just luck, I think. I'm pretty sure that when my captain took Rome in my Julii game that he wasn't promoted. But my memory is getting a little hazy on that.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Rotor':

Good show on Egypt (and you're welcome). Those walking anachronisms deserve a damned good thrashing, and perhaps the insertion of a large garden gnome...but I digress.

Unless you are going for a complete map campaign, you may just want to brush Pontus off as needed. The only way to truly pay them back in kind would be to have them lead the assault on Italy into the fresh defenses and fine full stacks of the homeland. As that would be difficult to arrange, you might just want to have a few rich battles on Italian soil and then stage your own triumph in Roma.

[Kickius Buttius]

I'm getting worried about something and I need to ask you all a question. What triggers the Senate to declare the civil war? Is it possible to fail to reach the triggers and have the amount of time allowed for a game runout?

I'm playing a Brutii game that had a series of disasters right at the start (see earlier in this thread), but I stuck with it and was able to recover. As a consequence of the early issues, I've moved quite a bit more slowly than my usual gameplay. I now own twenty-two provinces. The Senate appears to still love me (icons one from the top) and the public is okay with me (popularity about half way up the scale). The date is 188 and I'm worried because no civil war yet.

I'm also wondering if you must eliminate a specific faction (the same one or ones you would have to defeat to win the short campaign). Due to the early troubles with the game, once I took all the Greek cities in Greece, I was forced to concentrate on Europe. I left the Greek cities in Turkey alone. The Greeks are thus the owners of three cities in Turkey. Do I need to take those?

I'd prefer not to, since all my armies are busy fighting in Gaul, with the exception of the full stack army and diplomat patiently sitting outside each Julii and Scipii city, waiting for the civil war.

[GreatEmperor]

No, if you get 30 provinces and the people of Rome love you, you will get a message that the people of Rome are behind you and you can unleash the civil war by attacking an other Roman Faction.

So my advice is to conquer Gaul and Spain so you reach thirty and then take some cities until you get the message. Then lay siege to the Julii and Scipii cities and you've got your Civil War.

[Kickius Buttius]

Okay, one more question. Having bribed many Julii armies over the years, it occurred to me that I might be able to bribe a city. Iuvavum was chock full of troops and no family member, so I gave it a shot. The bribe worked and I got the city plus the entire army.

The next turn, the senate assigned me the mission of "return Iuvavum to the Julii." If I failt o do so in ten turns the message said I would "incur the displeasure of the Senate." Is this something I should worry about or just idle talk?

Will it help me cause the civil war to begin?

[GreatEmperor]

It will only decrease your standing in the Senate list.

[Craterus]

It depends if you want the city. After all, you still get to keep the military force. But if you need the city, don't worry about it, just hold onto it.

[Kickius Buttius]

I'm going to hold onto it out of spite. Thanks for the help.

[gardibolt]

Actually, if you walk out of the city, it will probably rebel. Then the old order will be rescinded and the Senate will tell you to retake it. :bow: Silly old men.

But if you're looking to trigger the civil war, yes, by all means keep it, as long as they didn't threaten to investigate you. That's very bad.

[rotorgun]

Unless you are going for a complete map campaign, you may just want to brush Pontus off as needed. The only way to truly pay them back in kind would be to have them lead the assault on Italy into the fresh defenses and fine full stacks of the homeland. As that would be difficult to arrange, you might just want to have a few rich battles on Italian soil and then stage your own triumph in Roma.

Thanks for the encouragment. I could do as you say and brush Pontus off and take on the other Romans. I was figuring on hedging my bets a little by getting a few more provinces under my belt. I feel that it would give me some insurance against the Romans attempting to take some of the provinces I currently control. I face a formidable foe in the Julii, as they control all of Hispania, most of Gual, and several key provinces in Northern Italy. The Scipii are in charge of, you guessed it, North Africa, and two of the Sicilian cities. I am not overly concerned with them. I feel the greater threat to be the Julii.

It is now about 50 BC, about the right time for the civil war historically. I am expecting Gauis Julius Caesar to make an apperance any time. (Does the AI include such historical characters?) It would be interesting to take him on during the bellum civius.

Going to war against Pontus would gain me some more land and wealth from the inevitable plunder. If I can involve the other Roman factions, I can weaken them while strengthening my own position. Do you agree? I will consider, carefully, your counsel to ignore Pontus. I could make for a more exciting game.

Have a good day all! Good fortune and good hunting!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Thanks for the encouragment. I could do as you say and brush Pontus off and take on the other Romans. I was figuring on hedging my bets a little by getting a few more provinces under my belt. I feel that it would give me some insurance against the Romans attempting to take some of the provinces I currently control. I face a formidable foe in the Julii, as they control all of Hispania, most of Gual, and several key provinces in Northern Italy. The Scipii are in charge of, you guessed it, North Africa, and two of the Sicilian cities. I am not overly concerned with them. I feel the greater threat to be the Julii.

It is now about 50 BC, about the right time for the civil war historically. I am expecting Gauis Julius Caesar to make an apperance any time. (Does the AI include such historical characters?) It would be interesting to take him on during the bellum civius.

Going to war against Pontus would gain me some more land and wealth from the inevitable plunder. If I can involve the other Roman factions, I can weaken them while strengthening my own position. Do you agree? I will consider, carefully, your counsel to ignore Pontus. I could make for a more exciting game.

Have a good day all! Good fortune and good hunting!

When I said "brush off" Pontus, I did not mean leave them sacrosanct. The best means of "withdrawal" is to slam 'em hard for two turns (emph on smashing field armies) and then let your assault troops head West. The border patrol armies you leave behind can slow-siege a few more provinces while keeping Pontus off balance.

The Scips will probably not threaten you on land, but may hinder sea movement a lot if they have their battleships built in numbers. Be careful when fleeting and build lots of coast obs towers so you can see what you're sailing into.

The Jollies probably are the worst threat, but they don't have the econ behind them that you will with half+ of the East under control. Pick an area you like and set it up as bait. When they attack, hopefully with a couple of large "cutting edge" armies, close the sack and crush their most spendy troops. This should leave you facing weaker stuff from then on, as the AI doesn't cope well with counter-punching.

[rotorgun]

When I said "brush off" Pontus, I did not mean leave them sacrosanct. The best means of "withdrawal" is to slam 'em hard for two turns (emph on smashing field armies) and then let your assault troops head West. The border patrol armies you leave behind can slow-siege a few more provinces while keeping Pontus off balance.

The Scips will probably not threaten you on land, but may hinder sea movement a lot if they have their battleships built in numbers. Be careful when fleeting and build lots of coast obs towers so you can see what you're sailing into.

The Jollies probably are the worst threat, but they don't have the econ behind them that you will with half+ of the East under control. Pick an area you like and set it up as bait. When they attack, hopefully with a couple of large "cutting edge" armies, close the sack and crush their most spendy troops. This should leave you facing weaker stuff from then on, as the AI doesn't cope well with counter-punching.

I see now what you intended...very cunning! I will probably hit the Pontic lands in Anatolia, as they have denuded that front to fight the Armenians and guard against my Egyptian legions; these are quite built up after my war with the Pharoes. I plan to go on the defensive in the middle east while engaging them to the north from Rhodes and Byzantium. I should be able to take Pergamum, Hilcarnasus, and Sardis before they can manage an effective response.

The Scipii have yet to build a sizable fleet. I plan on blockading them with my considerable naval assets from Greece and Egypt to forestall any attempts to relieve their beleaguered Sicilian cities, as well as their capitol of Capua. I aim to neutralize them sir. Blood may flow in the Mare Nostrum, but they will lose many good troops at sea if they push the issue.

The Julii are the wildcard in the game. They are the only Roman faction strong enough to attack me while helping defend Latium as well. The senate will undoubtedly give them financial support to ensure their aid. I must take Rome quickly to deprive them of this windfall. Do you think that two elite full stacks will be sufficient for the task? SPQR currently has two full armies in Latium with about a half stack garrisoning Rome. From what I can see of their forces, they will be no pushovers....many Urban and Preatorian types to be seen.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Yeah, two stacks oughta do it. I'd actually set up 1 Full, 1 2/3, and 1 1/2-stack. Make your Full a "defensive" force and pull a Von Moltke. If you position them where he simply can't resist hitting you, you can make him come to you -- preferably up hill (over a bridge?) then your Full stack will maim both of his. The 2/3rder would be lotsa mobile guys in order to short punch a Jollie relief force or smash the remnants of the Senate field force. The half stack is some grunt infantry and a siege train (Onagers if you're using them, best family siege engineer for a surety). Rome's walls will be tough. Fill out the siege army with the best of the full stack's remnants after the field wins.

Sounds like you've got the Scips marginalized and a good spoiler campaign planned for the Bridge-boys.

[gardibolt]

The Senate seems unable to resist attacking you if you park on the bridge just outside Rome. Those uber-troops can be decimated without much effort if you put a 2/3 stack there.

[Kickius Buttius]

Or you can get lucky. In my game, where the civil war hasn't begun yet, the Senate sent its entire army out of the city with just a regular family member in charge (not the faction leader or heir). One 45,000-denarii-bribe later, Rome is garrisoned by just the faction leader and faction heir. Can't wait for the civil war...

[rotorgun]

Great suggestions by all. I will debreif the outcome at a later date. I was hoping to finish the campaign this weekend, but have to attend my monthly training with the National Guard. (Talk about your Town Malitia!) I appreciate the advice given. See ya'll after awhile.
~:cheers: Rotorgun

[GreatEmperor]

Just found out a great strategy to begin.
First sieze Patavium and Mediolanum (Segesta if you can but that will be very hard). After that head for Massilia. If you've done this you succesfully blocked the Julii from expanding.
Now let the Scipii take Sicily and head straight for Carthage, but be sure to bring 2 stacks (full is best). If you've done that, you've blocked the Julii and the Scipii which gives you lots of space to expand.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Great suggestions by all. I will debreif the outcome at a later date. I was hoping to finish the campaign this weekend, but have to attend my monthly training with the National Guard. (Talk about your Town Malitia!) I appreciate the advice given. See ya'll after awhile.
~:cheers: Rotorgun


:helloo: :focus: :focus:

Where is the promised follow-up....

:jumping: :jumping: :charge:

I want to hear what happe...:tomato2:

Well maybe I can wait a little longer.

:creep: :tomato:

All right already I get the poi :tomato: :fainting:

Okay, I'll wait a bit...

but not this ~:santa: long.

Or its:viking: time!

[Kickius Buttius]

How do you continue to play after acquiring fifty province, including Rome? When the fiftieth provence fell, I received a cut screen victory and the only option available was to return to the main menu. I would like to finish conquering the entire map and have read in other posts that people have done this. what would I need to modify?

Thank you!

I am annoyed that the Julii still have on provence and the Scipii have three. The rest of the map is Egypt (save for the British isles), and that needs to be remedied.

[gardibolt]

When you have the victory screen up save (either CTRL+S or the usual save through the ESC key). Reload. You can then continue to play. Probably too late for you though.

[Kickius Buttius]

Ahh- not too late. I had saved it the turn before the 50th province fell and still have that saved game.

Thank you!!!!!!

[GreatEmperor]

Strange... In my campaign I got a victory message with a little cutscene and afterwards I was asked if I wanted to continue on this campaign

[Kickius Buttius]

That is what I had heard would happen, but when the cut scene cameup, the only option available was to return to the main menu.

[Craterus]

Strange... In my campaign I got a victory message with a little cutscene and afterwards I was asked if I wanted to continue on this campaign

You can continue a short campiagn into a long campaign. But after 50 provinces and the completion of the imperial campaign, there are no other set goals.

[GreatEmperor]

You can continue a short campiagn into a long campaign. But after 50 provinces and the completion of the imperial campaign, there are no other set goals.
Ehm... It was a long campaign:san_huh:

[Craterus]

Maybe you just got lucky? I don't think the game gives you an option to continue when you complete the Imperial Campaign, and so, you have to work around it, like gardibolt said.

[GreatEmperor]

Well it gave me that message with the cutscene in it.
At the bottom of that message was a V and a X
V if I wanted to continue and X to go back to the main menu

[rotorgun]

:helloo: :focus: :focus:

Where is the promised follow-up....

All right, here it finally is. Sorry I haven't been able to get back to you. The last two weeks have been Hell weeks!. I did manage to get a good start on Operation Anatolian Freedom about two weekends ago, but haven't had the chance to post.

I initiated the campaign with an invasion of Anatolia, besieging the city of Halicarnasus which was poorly guarded. At the same time, an attack against the pontic armies threatening Jerusalem and Petra was initiated. The two pronged offensive proved its worth as Pontus was taken off guard, not quite seeming to know quite how to respond. There was a space of perhaps three turns before any effective resistance could be effected in Anatolia, and their answer too my initiatives in the south were, at first, purely defensive. They seem to surmise that I am more of a threat to their cities in Syria, despite the fact that they outnumber my forces in the region. I was glad that I had taken the time to build highways between all my Egyptian cities, Jerusalem and Petra. This enabled me to shift forces more rapidly than they, thereby saving me from annihilation whenever they did reform for the inevitable counter-offensive. This was not long in coming.

After my inital sucesses, the Senate, in a complete volte-face of their previous policies, ordered my to take Pergamum, which was, with dispatch undertaken. While the enemy, in a vain attempt to meet me in field,attacked, the city revolted. The Senate, for some reason, oh let's say...to prevent me from gaining the fifty provinces needed for victory, promptly ordered me to stand down. As I was now under pressure from the enemy, I left the city in rebel hands to meet the new threat gathering near Sardis.

In the other theater, I have beaten back several enemy attempts to retake Jerusalem. These battles were very dramatic, with both sides bringing reinforcements to the fight. I have only been able to defeat their Bronze Shield Pikemen with Onager support. The Cappadocian cavalry and Schythe-wheeled Chariots usually decimate my wing cavalry and supporting infantry so badly, that, even though I succeed in routing them, I haven't strength left to mount an outflanking attack except in name only! In general, the Pontic cavalry will sacrifice itself in an attempt to break my line and get at my missle units. Once these are routed, they reform for the charge and go for one or more of my flanking infantry. These actions, which usually consume the better part of my cavalry in defense against them, are followed by the main assault by their pikemen. If these have not been weakened prior to their attack, they will break the infantry line! It is almost certain in most cases to happen. This is why I always try to have Onagers. It must be the right answer, for they are usually the target of the Pontic cavalry anytime I have them in my order of battle. In any case, Jerusalem is now safe, and I am taking the fight to them at Sidon. Many battles have been fought in the pass near the Tiberian Sea.

While all this has been going on, a nasty little espionage war has been raging. They managed to get one or two of their better spies into Petra during a time when I had stripped the city of manpower to aid my cause. Petra revolted, causing me to have to devert an army there to retake it. Actually, I had to send about a stack-and a half. Order was restored, but it taught me a lesson. I now have sent numerous spies into their nearest cities in an attempt to cause the same. I have also sent a few assasins into the region to attempt to kill off the enemy agents. Pontus has responded in kind. It's all a bit like James Bond 007, what with agents running all over the place, causing mayhem and murder. It has definately added some excitement to the contest!

Well, I don't want to go on too much. I hope I haven't bored you to tears already. I hope you all have a Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, or in case I offend anyone, Happy Hoildays!
:san_smiley:

[rotorgun]

It appears that the two pronged stratagy was the way to go as I now own all of Anatolia, and am master of the eastern Medditeranian Sea. Once I succeeded in crushing the main Pontic armies in Phoenicia and, Coele Syria, and Nabatea, the south fell rather easily.

In Anatolia, the senate, dominated by Brutii family members, kindly bid me capture the fair city of Mazaka. When the enemy attemted to prevent this with reinforcements from Syria, I pushed my hard driving Sidon legion to the attack. Although the enemy fought with courage and skill, their relief force was annihilated, the remnants retreating to Tarsus, only to be wiped out in a siege two turns later. A relief force from Sinope was too late to save Mazaka, which fell in two turns as well, the time needed to build four siege towers. In the case of Mazaka I had a spy open the gates for my attackers. I still took the walls and towers adjacent to the gates as well to tie up some of his wall defenders and prevent them from retreating to the town center where my main force attacked. Antioch fell quickly also as the defenses had been denuded to provide units for the southern relief force.

After the fall of Antioch, Damascus was attacked, which I had been besieging for some time in order to reduce the garrison. When it was reduced to about half strength, I sent the legions in. It was an epic siege! Once again I sent the towers in, loaded with legionary cohorts to tie up the wall defenses. My main strike force consisted of four Preatorian Cohorts, two auxilary Infantry, Two Legionary Cavalry, one Roman Heavy Cavalry and my General. My infantry was supported by one Archer Auxilary, and one Light Auxillia. The enemy had mistakenly placed all but one of his four Bronze Shield Pikemen on the wall, with all his light troops, all reduced in strength. I built some ladders, but couldn't see them assigned to any troops during the deployment phase.
(Ever since I edited out the Banners in the text files, I seem to have lost my ladders!...etrange!)

The siege went very well. After pounding the wall defenders with Onagers, and flaming arrows for awhile, I sent the towers in. When these troops engaged the enemy there, I sent my main strike force in. They cleared the Gate defenders quickly, routing the Cappadocian Cavalry, Pontic Heavy Cavalry General, and Phalanx unis in the Process. After that I rushed the town square and captured it by eliminating the other enemy general and his Eastern Hillmen. A vain attempt was made by the enemy to recapture the square with some Broze Shielders that happened to survive the wall battles. It was only after capturing the town that I realized it was plauge-ridden! Now my forces there are in quarantine and I will need them to take Palmyra, which has revolted from Pontic rule (another order fron the Senate). Oh well...se la guerre!

Now I am aligning my forces for the attack on Rome. As oulined in earlier posts, I will attempt to neutralize the Scipii by naval blockade of North Africa, and capture of Capua, Lilybaeum, and Messana. An attack against Ariminum and Arretium should isolate Rome from immediate Julii support, as I plan a lighting strike against Rome once I have drawn the Senate armies away from Latium with these attacks. What are your thoughts my fellow generals? Does this seem a good plan? I welcome your counsel.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Plan seems strategically and tactically sound. Nice attack in Anatolia -- who knew how quickly they'd fold after some casuaties.

Only add on might be a couple of raiding armies to distract Julii and Scipii response. These would be 10-14 card cavalry only armies sent to ravage and distract -- isolating the SPQR even more. Not worth it to weaken your main effort though, this is for "if resources allow."

[rotorgun]

Plan seems strategically and tactically sound. Nice attack in Anatolia -- who knew how quickly they'd fold after some casuaties.

Only add on might be a couple of raiding armies to distract Julii and Scipii response. These would be 10-14 card cavalry only armies sent to ravage and distract -- isolating the SPQR even more. Not worth it to weaken your main effort though, this is for "if resources allow."

Hello Seamus! It's good to hear from you again. Sorry for not replying to your posts sooner; work, holidays, and home projects have been the order of the day.

Your advice seems sound. I was actually considering such a possibility, but never entertained the idea of cavalry raids....how intruiging! It puts me in mind of the tactics of Nathan Bedford Forest and Jeb Stuart during the War between the States. They were masters of the cavalry raid. These techniques were used to great effect by one Betrand Du Guesclin of Brittany during The Hundred years War as well. It was called Le Chevauchee, which means cavalry raid in French. It was highly effective in tying down the forces of the English as they tried to prevent them. I thank you. I will attempt to implement them in the final phases of this campaign, which, if "providence doth not hinder", will commence tomorrow.

What campain(s) are you engaged in now? Are you still playing a Brutii game, or are you moved on to another. How is your French war going in MTW? I'll look for your posts about that in the MTW threads.

Thanks a great deal.

[gardibolt]

Tried a Brutii campaign in 1.5, after having done a bunch of barbarians and Carthage; I was amazed at how easy these guys are after that experience of shoddy troops and worse economies. They're like printing money. I'm building everything I can, hired every mercenary in sight, never exterminate, and I'm still having trouble keeping under 50,000d. The Greek Cities melted away before me and now Macedon is doing the same. Everyone on the map is terrified of me and I get offers every turn of alliances. Really, really a weird experience.

That will all change, I expect, once the civil war comes, though right now at 20 territories I have high popularity with both the Senate and the people, thanks to ravaging everything and obediently doing all the Senate missions quickly. The Julii and Scipii have both expanded substantially (though I messed up the Julii by taking both Patavium and Mediolanum; I would have gotten Marsila too except I had to put down some rioting in Mediolanum and the Germans offered me Iuvavum in exchange for a ceasefire and I had to go stock it with troops). The civil war is likely to be long and bloody, especially since I no longer seem to have the option to bribe other Roman troops, no matter how much money I have. When did that disappear? I used that to great effect in 1.0. Will I get that back once the civil war starts?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

MTW campaign was played for a stretch. France was absorbed, then war with the HRE netted me all of the low countries, Saxony and Switzerland -- while defending the south against Spain -- when a rapid double civil war smashed me back to the North French coast and cost me half of England itself. Not quite back to my borders on that one yet.

The current RTW for me is a Scip campaign. Trying to get the Jollies outlawed first, but they keep hanging at one pip. Senate missions for me are annoying -- no Hyperboria (yet) but Carthago Nova when fully deployed against the Eggys.:furious3:

How'd the Brutes finish up for you?

[gardibolt]

Still in progress. The Macedonians in their last stand gave me some trouble---they had a ton of cavalry in their final army of 2000 and I had too many missile units in the army I sent after them, which was less than half that size, so I got soundly whacked. A better-proportioned force went after them the next turn, I assassinated the faction leader and they fell like dominos.

Thrace then foolishly attacked me and is paying the price. They put a stack on a boat which I promptly sank (I rule the seas) and I'm heading over to Carthage, which the Scipii seem to be ignoring (It's now owned by Numidia, somehow). My Machiavellian plan is to take western Africa, forcing the Scipii to get involved in a mutually destructive war with Egypt. Brittania has eliminated Gaul, so I expect they will be tackling the Julii.

I'm up to 238 BC and am hoping I don't get the same 237 BC crash I got with my Carthage game; if I do, then I'm done with this game for good.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Sorry to be unclear, I was responding to Rotorgun.

Gardi', your campaign seems to be following a clear pattern, so I have had little comment.

[rotorgun]

MTW campaign was played for a stretch. France was absorbed, then war with the HRE netted me all of the low countries, Saxony and Switzerland -- while defending the south against Spain -- when a rapid double civil war smashed me back to the North French coast and cost me half of England itself. Not quite back to my borders on that one yet.

The current RTW for me is a Scip campaign. Trying to get the Jollies outlawed first, but they keep hanging at one pip. Senate missions for me are annoying -- no Hyperboria (yet) but Carthago Nova when fully deployed against the Eggys.:furious3:

How'd the Brutes finish up for you?

Sounds like an interesting situation developing in both of your campaigns. I shall seek further developments in future posts.

As for me, it is currently 29 BC in the campaign. I am still in the final preparations for the planned invasion of Latium. I had to perform my monthly military duties for the National Guard, which, unfortunately, put my gaming hobby on a bit of a hold. I've taken your advice and am now about six turns from completing the suggested cavalry raiding forces, albiet somewhat smaller in size than your recommended 14-16 units. I opted for about 8-10 Roman Cavalry units launched from three different cities, Tarentum in the south, Segestica and Iuvavum from the north. It seemed more prudent, as the Jullii are buildind their defenses of Liguria, Etruria, and Umppia more rapidly than I anticipated, and it has forced me to accept a truncated timetable. I will also have to go on the defensive against Pontus while seeking a ceasfire from them. I've offered them protection but they ask for too many hard won cities in return. It is no bother as they have been very much cut to size already.

My basic plan is still the same in regards to general strategy - hit the Jullii hard in their weakened Gaullic provinces to distract them and hopefully draw some of their Spanish legions north while using my northern cavalry to raid Liguria, thereby fixing the garrisons there for a spell. Lilybaeum, and Messana, both Scipii owned, will be taken by storm, drawing a furious response from their North African armies. This will be thwarted by my already vastly superior naval forces by a close blockade of the entire Western African coast. This will force both factions into a naval biluding campaign which they can ill afford.

In central Italy, My two, largely Urban Cohort/Preatorian Cavalry/Onager, legions will assault Arriminum and Arretium. Simultaneously, another two, three cheveron, silver shield legions will move on Capua to capture the Scipii capital. These maneuvers should draw at least one or two of the three Senate legions away from Latium. If they don't move to support their loyal factions they risk a possible assault from six legions later, so I surmise that they will do so. Once I have drawn them into the fray I will send in my reserves from Attica and the Dalmation shores to secure my gains, and then launch my own ancient version of the Anzio invasion from Sicilia to take on the remaining Senate forces. Hopefully these forces will be annihilated in a Gotterdamerung of their own making (It serves them right for not making me Dictator for life!) by whatever forces are available to assist the landing force. If all goes well, Rome should fall between 20 to 10 BC.

This is the Commander's intent, currently being sent by currier to all the Consuls, Preators, and Legates of the Legions. What say you Seamus? Does this plan have a leg to stand on?

Viva Longa a Imperator!

[rotorgun]

Still in progress. The Macedonians in their last stand gave me some trouble---they had a ton of cavalry in their final army of 2000 and I had too many missile units in the army I sent after them, which was less than half that size, so I got soundly whacked. A better-proportioned force went after them the next turn, I assassinated the faction leader and they fell like dominos.

Thrace then foolishly attacked me and is paying the price. They put a stack on a boat which I promptly sank (I rule the seas) and I'm heading over to Carthage, which the Scipii seem to be ignoring (It's now owned by Numidia, somehow). My Machiavellian plan is to take western Africa, forcing the Scipii to get involved in a mutually destructive war with Egypt. Brittania has eliminated Gaul, so I expect they will be tackling the Julii.

I'm up to 238 BC and am hoping I don't get the same 237 BC crash I got with my Carthage game; if I do, then I'm done with this game for good.

Hello Gardibolt,

It appears that you are having a good early game with the Brutii. I like your plan to disrupt the Scipii with an invasion of Numidia. It will be somewhat difficult to logisticlly support such a plan as Numidia is far from your base of operations, but could be of some use If you succeed. Leaving all that Egyptian wealth to the Scipii seems rather generous. I was able to really boost my economy by taking over Egypt during my canpaign. It was not an easy task, as those nasty Egyptians were quite a challange. (I almost started to have nightmares hearing those Apis horns that their leaders always seemed to blow right before an attack!) Alexandria, Memphis, and Thebes are incredibly rich cities, well worth a campain to capture them. Jeruselam is the hardest city to rule I realize, but not impossible.

I also had great fun capturing the Anatolian provinces as well. The coastal ports will bring you an immense profit in trade, something worth considering as you will need capital once you go to war with your fellow Romans. A considerable amount of trade income is lost once the war begins, and the extra denarii will come in handy. Let the Julii fight Brittania however; it is true that they are indeed quite mad it seems. It took a few years off my life fighting these stubborn tribes.

What happened to cause your crash? I had this happen a few times as well, but thank the Lord I had my campaign saved seperately from the autosave that happens whenever you finish a turn.

Good luck with your campaign. I have enjoyed playing the Brutii immensley.

[gardibolt]

Hey rotorgun, thanks for the feedback. The seizure of Carthage and then Tingi went well, thanks to the mercs I picked up marching across north Africa. The next step will be invading Spain and giving me a second front to attack the Julii when the civil wars come. My plan is for the Scipii and Egypt to wear each other down; I'm hoping that my timing is such that when the war comes that the Scipii will be vulnerable. If it comes too soon, they'll have many stacks with Egypt right behind them (at the moment they have six full stacks just south of Carthage); if it comes too late they may have conquered Egypt and become a wealthy powerhouse. I expect though, that my seizure of Iberia will be enough to outlaw me and then I can start in earnest on my brethren.:2thumbsup: Conveniently, the Senate just asked me to blockade Novo Carthago, which fits perfectly into my plans. And in the process, I can wipe out the final Gallic territory. :D

I already own almost all of Anatolia, and the cash is just rolling in, between 30 and 34,000d per turn. I have an alliance with Pontus, who has been reduced to 2 provinces by the Armenians, who in turn are under attack by the Egyptians. But I've built forts at the approaches to Anatolia and stuck nearly full stacks in them to hold off the Egyptians from casting a greedy eye on my territories. Thrace is on the ropes, and Dacia is starting to get nervous; I see them sending troops to the borders they share with me. But I'll let them start the war. I'm in no hurry.

No 237 BC crash in my Brutii game (down to 232BC now and just got the Marius Reforms thanks to my palace in Patavium), so the other one in my Carthage campaign must have been tied to the fact it started as a 1.0 campaign.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Rotor'

Sounds like you're dreating the kind of pell-mell finale that will be highly entertaining!

I do think you'll draw them out and hammer them in the field, then it'll be the turn of rome itself.

If only those foolish old men had seen the wisdom of appointing you dictator without all of this pettifogging.

By the way, are you looking for a "Master of the Horse?"

[rotorgun]

Rotor'

Sounds like you're dreating the kind of pell-mell finale that will be highly entertaining!

I do think you'll draw them out and hammer them in the field, then it'll be the turn of rome itself.

If only those foolish old men had seen the wisdom of appointing you dictator without all of this pettifogging.

By the way, are you looking for a "Master of the Horse?"

Thanks Seamus, I could be in the market for a Magister Equitum. Do you have someone in mind? Perhaps a certain Celtic warrior from the "Historic Triangle" could be induced to take the job? And what would be the fee for such services rendered?
:laugh4:

As I must be at work all this week, I will not be able to kick off this long awaited assault until next weekend. I swear, if I have to brook many more delays...! If I could only find two consecutive days in a row, I would certainly wrap this campaign up. I'm not complaigning though; playing the Brutii has been a great experience. Well...have a good week yourself. I appreciate the help and the comradarie.
:2thumbsup:

[rotorgun]

Hey rotorgun, thanks for the feedback.

No 237 BC crash in my Brutii game (down to 232BC now and just got the Marius Reforms thanks to my palace in Patavium), so the other one in my Carthage campaign must have been tied to the fact it started as a 1.0 campaign.

Your welcome indeed. I think you have a sound strategy in establishimg a base of operations in the west. It will probably call for some creative governing of any provinces captured there, so far away from your capital. I still have to watch my colonies in Britannia very carefully as they are far from my capital of Athens. I decided to make Athens my new Brutii capital about mid-game to lessen the unrest effects in my far flung eastern provinces. It also increased the trade income quite a bit as well. (Tarentum and Croton do not seem to have Ports as good as the Athenians do.)

I think your right about the crash thing. It was probably a conflict between 1.0 and 1.5 or something like that. In any case, just keep a good back up save if you are concerned. Well...have a great time. Talk to you later.
:2thumbsup:

[rotorgun]

Praise be to the God Vitrix!:2thumbsup:

I have finally been able to complete this Brutii campaign. My final one, two, three strategy to take Rome was a success! The final victory tally was 66 Provinces, including almost complete control of Italia. My finances were in good shape at about 250,000 denarii coming in on each turn minus roughly 150-170,000 denarii in expenses on average. (It pays to have control of the eastern Med ports) The events leading up to victory were exciting.

After opening the civil war with an attack on Alesia in Gaul, I sent a small attack army with a catapult from Britannia by sea. These forces besieged Samarobriva and captured it after two turns. Even though these attacks were of no great strategic value, they served to draw Julii attention away from the main thrusts against thier cities of Ariminum and Arretium. Against them, I sent two armies from Venitia Province while, upon the advice of Seamus Fermanagh, two light cavalry armies were sent ahead to disrupt enemy movements. This was a highly effective measure as one of the cav forces was immediately attacked by the Julii in a desperate attempt to relieve Ariminum. Of course they were defeated, but served thier purpose in delaying reinforcements from reaching there in time.

At sea, my navies, pre-positioned on previous turns, began a blockade of all the Scipii ports in North Africa. I also blockaded as many of the Julii ports as I could in Hispania along with Sardinia as well. This served its porpose well as there was virtually no way that the enemy could recieve seaborne support without risking losing them in a sea battle. What few ships they possessed were easily dealt with by my roving offshore squadrons. (I learned the lessons of Nelson and Mahan well in my studies)

In Sicilia, Messana and Lilybeaum, both of which were poorly garrisoned, were taken by storm in one turn by two armies from Silicia Greacus, each equipped with two Heavy and one Light Onager units to blast a hole in the walls. This enabled me to quickly reorganize them for a seaborne invasion of Latium in support of the land operation.

Meanwhile Campania, home of Capua, capital of the Scipii faction, was invaded by two armies from Tarentum and Croton. Capua fell rather easily, to my suprise, after a vain attempt by the Scipii to meet them in the field. Thier armies were "utterly beaten!" during the battle, and Capua fell to my forces by default. I couldn't believe my luck!

I would have thought that Senate would have sensed the danger Rome was now in, but again, to my astonishment, declared not only my faction, but the Julii and Scipii "Outlaws" as well. I was even more amazed when they actually had the notion to assign me a "Senate Mission" to attack the Julii....fascinating! Of course I was dumbfounded, but happily obliged them by attacking the closest Julii army within supporting distance of Rome. While I was not rewarded for my efforts by the Senate, they did, at least tacitly in any case, offer their thanks. It seemed that only after this was accomplished that the Senatorial legions began to move. Even then it was very conservatively by sending several small blocking forces into the field. These were easily driven back or defeated. In about two more turns I had my armies from Sicilia invest Rome with line of circumvellation.

Only now did the Julli begin to move their massive reinforcements from Iberia.
As I detected their movements I sent one of the Cavalry raiding forces west to delay them. Mediolanium was stormed by an additional legion from Patavium as a precaution as well. I had further plans to capture Segesta and thereby fully cut off Northern Italia, but it wasn't required as events proved. for in the next two turns Rome fell.

The fall of Rome was very much a give me as the Senate sent its rather high quality army into the field to engage my southern invasion force. This was a mistake as it had been weakened in the ealier fights against my armies in the north. Their forces consisted of a good mixture of Legionary, Urban, and Preatotian Cohorts supported by Three Roman Armoured Cavalry (Faction Leaders) units, some Auxilia, Archers, and an Onager/Scorpian combination. All these had a good range of silver cheveron experience as well. It was a tough fight, even with a half strength army thrown in for reinforcements. After destroying this army, in which all of the Senate faction leaders were killed, Rome surrendered to the Brutii. It was nice to see the Brutii forces marching in a triumph during the victory cutscene. All in all, this was a very challenging campaign. I was able too fight almost every faction in the game except Numidia and Scythia. The two most difficult to defeat were Brtannia and Egypt. (Those Chariots are murder, not to metion the Pharoh's Archers!)

Well I've gone on a bit too long again. My next campaign will probably be one from BI.

Talk to Ya'll later.

[Glaucus]

I've been playing a campaign with the Brutii, my favorite roman faction. They are well positioned and have my favorite gladiators, the Velite. But I'm sure 99% of you know that already. I just wanted to ask, has anyone else ever broken 650,000d in a campaign. This was on medium difficulty, and I spent money almost wherever I could. (IE I didn't build a barraks or archery range on crete because i would never need it, in places like that I only spent on roads, ports, temples, and markets) Just a challenge to any of you who want one, try and break the amount of money I got.

Glaucus

[Craterus]

2 Million Denarii. With Egypt.

I decided to invest in buying the Scipii for 1 million. ~;)

[Glaucus]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i thought the game would crash if you reached ten digits. Impressive, very impressive.

[GeneralHankerchief]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i thought the game would crash if you reached ten digits. Impressive, very impressive.

I think ten digits is a billion, which would indeed be impressive.

My best total would probably be around a mil and a half, in the late stages of my Parthian campaign. No protectorates or anyhing, but I did control the three wealthiest spots in the game (Italia, the Balkan Peninsula, and the Nile), not to mention my starting territories as well as Anatolia.

Keeping this on topic, however, I imagine that the Brutii could be the richest of them all if they are commanded by someone who keeps pushing them due east and doesn't take any side trips to say, Dacia.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

:inquisitive:

....try to keep my denarii below 40k to avoid the trait penalties. Am I missing something?


Brutii are the easiest Roman faction (vanilla).

Your natural sphere of influence is the very rich Agean.
You can recruit Cretans in the pre-marian era to get long range missile and don't have to go far to pick up Horse Archers for skirmish/raid forces.
Of your early opponents, only Macedon fields decent cavalry.
Your temple set has the most useful mix of bonuses and you can add to these by maintaining Artemisian and Aresian temples in some conquered cities.
You only need boats for short hops, so you don't have to worry about out-building the AI fleets.
You still get to start by picking off 2 weak barb cities in 3 turns if you want.
If the Selkies get bumped from Sardis quickly, you may never have to face elephants in battle and have the option to "wall off" from the Eggies and get your 50 in the North if you want.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I believe that a family member stuck in a city is a wasted family member, so the trait penalties really don't apply to me. In my first (and only) Brutii campaign I seriously think that I only had two permanent governors; one in Sparta (capital) and Patavium.

It was rather easy to keep public order- I just maintained my garrisons and set taxes low. It doesn't really matter too much since the Brutii target territories rake in the cash no matter what. The fact that I had trade rights with almost every faction didn't hurt either. ~:thumb:

[Telys]

I've been playing a campaign with the Brutii, my favorite roman faction. They are well positioned and have my favorite gladiators, the Velite. But I'm sure 99% of you know that already. I just wanted to ask, has anyone else ever broken 650,000d in a campaign. This was on medium difficulty, and I spent money almost wherever I could. (IE I didn't build a barraks or archery range on crete because i would never need it, in places like that I only spent on roads, ports, temples, and markets) Just a challenge to any of you who want one, try and break the amount of money I got.

Glaucus
1 million as the greek cities and I only held kydonia and rhodes, with no protectorates. Took me 200 years of building and ending turns.

[Glaucus]

But in that camaign you conquered greece and thrace etc, then smashed everything up and left right? I thought you said that in another thread. So if I a m correct, that is pretty amazing since most likely mainland greece and turkey would have been owned by rebels. Thus little trade. But if I am wrong, then I bet those two settlements had huge trade ports. Either way, that much money is awesome.

I currently have 750,000 in my seulcid campaign, saving up for an assualt on Italia which I plan to include a massive amount of bribery. I hold what was: Pontus, Armenia, Parthia, and Egypt, and am redying my armies for a push into numidia and carthage, where I excpect to find the Scipii entrenched. Can someone tell me how to take a screeny? I tried /screenshot, screenshot, screenshotJPEG all kinds of stuff. Thank you, Glaucus

[Telys]

But in that camaign you conquered greece and thrace etc, then smashed everything up and left right? I thought you said that in another thread. So if I a m correct, that is pretty amazing since most likely mainland greece and turkey would have been owned by rebels. Thus little trade. But if I am wrong, then I bet those two settlements had huge trade ports. Either way, that much money is awesome.

I currently have 750,000 in my seulcid campaign, saving up for an assualt on Italia which I plan to include a massive amount of bribery. I hold what was: Pontus, Armenia, Parthia, and Egypt, and am redying my armies for a push into numidia and carthage, where I excpect to find the Scipii entrenched. Can someone tell me how to take a screeny? I tried /screenshot, screenshot, screenshotJPEG all kinds of stuff. Thank you, Glaucus
The campaign that I just mentioned was a long time ago. I abandoned all my settlements in the beginning and liquidated my entire army to make a profit.

I take screenshots by pressing print screen, then alt-tab to close, open paint, press ctrl-v and save as jpeg, but I'm sure there are other ways to do it this is just how I do it.

[Nsan]

Hi Brutii players. I'd like to ask for some advice if I may.
My current situation is this. Egypt and my Brutii faction are the largest and most technically advanced factions. I have all of Greece and most of Turkey. I'm making lots of money now, finally. The Marian reforms have passed. My plan was to attack Egypt after first disposing of the remnants of the Greeks, who had moved over to Turkey. Have taken all cities in Turkey W of Tarsus. Attacked Tarsus with 2 full armies hoping to win by siege. Sent spies E of Tarsus and discovered the areas swarming with Egyptian units. I discovered that Egypt was attacking my ally in Mazaka, so I quickly raised an army to hit the Egyptian force at Mazaka. Just then the senate gave me instructions to engage in peace talks with Egypt for trade rights! :wall:
I did that and was rewarded. My questions are these(knowing that a big conflict with Egypt is inevitable);

1- Should I expand somewhere else and put off the Egyptian fight?
or
2- Prepare for that fight, then break the treaty and hit them hard?

Money is not an issue now. Which units are best to counter the chariots? They are the unit I am worried about.

Thanks!

[Telys]

Hi neutroson. My advice would be this, If your popularity with the people is good I would keep the peace with egypt because a civil is near. If not, I would do what the senate asks of me but be ready for egypt to attack, and if you are trying to raise your popularity w/ the people I would attack egypt

Lot of archer auxilia and velites. Pre marian triarii do alright against chariots. Of course I attack chariots with anything and everything, for example I'll swarm a unit chariots with my infantry and whilst they are fighting Ill bring some light calvary in to cause them to rout. Missle chariots are little different though, if I were you I would mainly use archers, this way the chariots will usually rout before they reach your line.

[rotorgun]

Have taken all cities in Turkey W of Tarsus. Attacked Tarsus with 2 full armies hoping to win by siege. Sent spies E of Tarsus and discovered the areas swarming with Egyptian units. I discovered that Egypt was attacking my ally in Mazaka, so I quickly raised an army to hit the Egyptian force at Mazaka. Just then the senate gave me instructions to engage in peace talks with Egypt for trade rights! :wall:
I did that and was rewarded. My questions are these(knowing that a big conflict with Egypt is inevitable);

1- Should I expand somewhere else and put off the Egyptian fight?
or
2- Prepare for that fight, then break the treaty and hit them hard?

Money is not an issue now. Which units are best to counter the chariots? They are the unit I am worried about.

Thanks!

Hail Neutronsan,
Your situation is very much like mine was when playing the Greeks last year. I had pretty much taken all of the areas that you had mentioned and made the Mediterranian into a Greek trading lake. I had eliminated the Brutii, Julii, and all other serious competitors except for the Scipii, whom I neutalized by naval blockade of North Africa. As I was about to expand toward Tarsus, I also fell in with the Egyptians, who had been expanding all this time in the east. What I did, until sufficient reinforcements could be mounted for a full scale amphibious invasion of their Island holdings and thence to the Syrian coast, was defend the Cilician gates, and all other invasion routes with forts. The forts were garrisoned by infantry and archer units (about 4 each), supoorted by two roving armies stationed within striking distance of the forts. As the Egyptians really wanted to expand into western Anatolia, they had no choice but to move through these well defended places. If they engaged the forts, then my mobile reserves could come to their aid. If they went for my mobile armies, I usually could get enough reinforcements t from the forts to make these battles vey bloody.

Logistics is the key; keeping a steady supply of troops and leaders is a challange. All the coastal cities had to provide the recruits. By doing so, I was just able to keep the Egyptians at bay long enough until I beat until I could mount the invasions from the Greek mainland areas. The Cilician pass was filled with the blood of countless cyber soldiers from both sides.

In fighting the Egyptians, I found that a good combined arms approach was helpful. I used light infantry to screen my cavalry on the flanks. The infantry would absorb their attacks while the cavalry worked around the flanks of the now engaged chariots, and then routed them. Archer chariots can be dealt with by having plenty of Missle cavalry and foot archers. Screen your archers, which can be angled slightly on the wings to have a better feild of fire, well with your frontline infantry. The most significant threat, besides the chariots will be the Pharoah's Archers; probably, pound for pound, the toughest units in the RTW order of battle. Never engage them from downhill if it can be avoided. They will outrange your archers, and your cavalry will be too tired to win a melee against them if you charge uphill. Even if you are able to attack them with your cavalry on even terms, these archers can, and sometimes do, win the melee. I suggest having one or two Onagers amonst your armies to batter these units as soon as possible. They will always be screened by the Pharoah's spearmen when they are present. These operate very much as Phalanxes, but are not as heavily armored.

Well, I've gone on long enough. Check out some of the many posts by others on dealing with the Eggies. There is lots of good advice in the threads.

Good luck!

[Nsan]

Thanks Rotorgun. The Egyptians allied with my enemies the Greeks on the very next turn, then declared war against me! That solves that problem. Shortly after that I wrecked a larger Greek army with a Captain leading my forces in hopes of getting him a battlefield promotion. I'm low on Generals/governors. :charge: I am looking forward to all the battles coming up!

[Roy1991]

You only need boats for short hops, so you don't have to worry about out-building the AI fleets.

Usually this is indeed the case, but in my opinion it's better to expand your fleet anyway (at least 7 or 8 units, especially when using it to transport troops).
Earlier today I wanted to transport an additional legion from Italy to Greece.
Because it's only a short distance, I only used a small fleet (4 units).
Attacked by a rebel fleet, my faction heir, another important general and 15+ units of infantry & cavalry dead :(

[Nsan]

Usually this is indeed the case, but in my opinion it's better to expand your fleet anyway (at least 7 or 8 units, especially when using it to transport troops).
Earlier today I wanted to transport an additional legion from Italy to Greece.
Because it's only a short distance, I only used a small fleet (4 units).
Attacked by a rebel fleet, my faction heir, another important general and 15+ units of infantry & cavalry dead :(


I had 3 good generals on a boat that was sunk! :no:
I'm still trying to get enough generals/governors.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Short hops = on boat, sail, off boat ALL IN ONE TURN.

Otherwise, the previously inactive AI fleets from four factions will ignore their declared conflicts with one another to smash your 3 ships of transports to pieces in 17 engagements after you hit the hourglass once.

I'm fond of Tarrentum to Appolonia, Appolonia to Kydonia, Kydonia to Rhodes, Rhodes to Hali. Takes a while, but you can lose each transport ship to the vultures, take the city you're staying at, build a port and move on -- no dead generals.

[Craterus]

I was rather distraught in my first campaign when the Greeks sunk an entire fleet (after some Senate mission in Hellas). It had 8 Principe units and a general..

[Garvanko]

Otherwise, the previously inactive AI fleets from four factions will ignore their declared conflicts with one another to smash your 3 ships of transports to pieces in 17 engagements after you hit the hourglass once.This is very annoying.

[rotorgun]

A few notes about things i did notice, it would probably be better to take Thrace out completely before you venture on. They become a big problem if you wait. Their mix of phalanxes and Falxmen is devastating to my Hastati. Pre-Marius efforts on Thrace should only be attempted with a decent general (4 stars at least) and nothing short of Principes. Believe me, those Falxmen will put the fear of god in your Hastati.

Yep! I noticed the same thing when fighting against them and thje Dacians also. Nasty little buggers. About the only thing I could do was hire a bunch of Barbarian Cavalry and Warbands to neutralize their effect. Combined arms was the order of the day.

I like your approach of leaving your enemies with one province surrounded by your strength. What will be the goal of such a policy? Fascinating.

[Roy1991]

Hm, I guess it's time to take a sitestep to Gaul...
Some Gallic diplomat bribed my siege army consisting of 10 Heavy Onagers & 10 Praetorian Cohorts :furious3:
Vengeance will be mine :duel:

[Nsan]

Big thanks to everyone in this thread. I am 3-0 against the dreaded Egyptians. Today I split my forces to defeat a 900 unit army on a tall hill. Archers and a brave velite unit wrecked the chariots, enabling my infantry to get level with the bulk of their army. I had them running soon after that. With this battle I defended Tarsus. Next step is to take Mazaka. Am building 2 armies on my home territory of Greece to attack Alexandria. Looking forward to opening that second front!! :2thumbsup:

http://img46.imagevenue.com/loc137/th_18451_bad_hill_Large.jpg (http://img46.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc137&image=18451_bad_hill_Large.jpg)

[limitedwhole]

Brutii Guide:

Intro:
This is a guide to the general strategy of the Brutii with a 5 turn opening. I welcome criticism and corrections, so reply if you have any. This is for a very hard/very hard difficulty game were you don’t mind saving and loading (not iron man). This strategy makes heavy use of your sons early in combat, and there is always a chance that they fall even to a two bit peltast. Obviously some things will be different. You may get different ancillaries, different Senate missions, etc, but early on things shouldn’t be too divergent.

Primary principles: Growth, Trade, Navy
Primarily you want to grow your cities as fast as possible the best way to do this by slaves and leaving all ungoverned cities on growth policy. I leave a governor in Tarentum only in the early game to maximize the slave flow to this key city. Later on you will govern only Athens and Tarentum.
By ignoring military buildings and focusing on trade we ramp up our production and growth fast. This will allow us to spend essentially at will without taking up precious cue space producing armies and buildings. We will make up for this by fighting closer battles well and hiring key mercenaries. We will also try to take advantage of any cities we conquer that may already produce military units.
Finally, this strategy imposes a heavy naval build up early. This is because we require dominance of the seas for the flexibility and range it provides our military movements which will make us all the more faster. Every turn you get to the enemy gates faster, is one less unit they can defend with.

General Strategy Arc:
We will send Amulius at the head of our eastern army on a no holds barred march towards Athens and the coveted academy that it provides. Aulus will bring up the rear of this army, building forts along the way to discourage the Macedonians from stabbing us in the back and taking our non-defended towns. We will want to ally with the Macedonians for several reasons. Firstly, their armies are too powerful for us to take down without more production. Their large quantity of hoplites and cavalry will decimate our armies. Secondly they will provide us with a needed trading partner in our war against the Greeks. Finally, later on, they will provide a key naval ally as we push the war into turkey.
Our second advance will consist of Tiberious and the bets of our units. He has a massive task and and no backup. He will march in a lightning attack on Syracuse, beating the Scipii to the key grain supply which will key grow Croton. It will also remove any Greek presence from the west and keep them form producing ships their. Syracuse will provide us with ships ourselves as Tiberious takes the war to Lilybauem and to Carthage securing the second source of grain. This manouver will also box-in the scipii and keep them small so that they are easy to conquer later in the game. Eventually, you want Tiberious to double back along the coast taking territories and culminating with a strike on Sparta, and finally betraying the Macedons and taking Corinth.
Our third advance will be either an adopted son or Cassius Brutus along with several Equites. They will sail north taking Segestica, and Patavium, and Mediolanum. This serves several purposes. Mediolanum gives us a port on the western shores of Italy, Patavium ensures that no Gaulish fleets will harass us form the north, Segestica ensures our dominace of the eastern cove. Finally, this hems in the Julii, much like our second manouver making them easier to conquer once civil war breaks out.

The Family:
Tending our family is of the upmost importance. Try only to marry political characters into your family. True Roman is a prized trait we are looking for. Most prized are political/management characters. We want to dominate the Senate offices, and “control” Rome even before the civil wars breaks out.

Ancilliaries:
Early on the prized ancillaries are Military Tribune, Slave Trader, and Doctor. Military Tribune will help us get elected to offices early. Be sure to be valiant in battle with your generals. We want at least one by turn 5, but two doesn’t hurt. Slave trader is a must. You want at least one by turn 5 to put on whoever is going to govern Athens (Amulius for turn, then Aulus). A second one may be carried back to Tarentum (for Vibius), on one of your sons as he makes his way back west (possibly to govern either Syracuse or Carthage). Doctor is extraordinary as well. We definitely want one for Vibius as he isn’t even married yet and if he does not have children his line will end. Furthermore, we really want one on Amulius and Aulus. For this reason we will want to build Temples to Juno early on in both Tarentum and Athens. Later on we will tear them down and build the Mercury line to increase our trade revenue. Finally, we are moving to takes Athens as early as possible for the Academy (not to mention the future trade potential, taking it early prevents any conflict with the Macedons over this city). Since Amulius and Aulus are headed there, both our immediate sons who will come of age and our adopted son will show up in Athens ready to get ancillaries and more ancillaries.

Five Turn Opening:

Turn1: Senate mission: Take Appolonia for a great reward (reload if you do not get this mission, the 5K is necessary to play this strategy.)

-Vet Equites, Hastati from Amulius to Croton
-Vet Hastati from Aulus to Croton
-Velites form Tarentum to Amulius
-Aulus army to north shore directly north of Tarentum
-Aulus recruits Samnites
-Hastati from Tarentum to Croton
-1 Bireme to north shore (NE of Aulus)
-Load Aulus army and move NE to due south of Salona
-1 Bireme to SE of Croton
-Spy, Diplomat, Amulius army to remaining Bireme
-Land this Bireme directly west of Appolonia
-Have spy investigate Appolonia
-Amulius attacks Appolonia

Battle 1: Appolonia
Amulius, 2 Velites, and Hastati vs. 2 Peltasts and Hoplites

Objectives: Keep Hastati from taking Casualties. Get Amulius into the thick of it but not into those Hoplite spears. Enslave the populace.

Strategy: Line up Hastati at main entrance with Velites at the two side entrance. Put Amulius to the right by the Velites. March Velites and Hastati up to seal off entrances. March Hastati part way up the path (but not to far) to draw out Peltast(s). Send Velites in to draw Hoplites out to left. Send in Amulius to clean up the remaining Peltast. Keep those Hastati out of fire even if it means, marching them back out of the path (even running). Have Amulius clean up second Peltast. If the Hoplites double back trap them between two Velites and fire away.

Results: MD K MR
Amulius 529 479 464
Captain 481 77 0

-Amulius (alone) NE to mountain pass, build fort
-Move spy to fort
-move Diplomat to SW of fort
-Appolonia to growth build and build governor’s house
-Tarentum to high taxes, build Shrine to Juno, build diplomat
-Croton to very high taxes, build port (for future grain imports from Syracuse), diplomat
-Bireme W of Appolonia to dues south of Appolonia (on coast)

Turn 2: Senate Mission with Macedon: Trade Agreement

-Aulus disembark to SE of Salona, hire Illyrians, attack

Battle 2: Salona
Aulus, Velites, Peltasts, and Samnites vs. 2X peltasts, Hoplites, and Pirates

Objectives: Win and enslave populace.

Strategy: Use Aulus like crazy and hope he doesn’t die. This is a very hard battle particularly if Salona has narrow streets. If you have the battle map like Appolonia was just charge the Peltasts unit on the outside with Aulus and they will break. His pirates will come charging over. Reverse Aulus and hit them full force send the Samnites in to the flank. After this point its just mop up detail. Lure the Hoplites away from the remaining Peltasts with Velite fire. Have Aulus (whats left of him) and the Samnite charge them. Then pinch the hoplites between Velites and Illyrian fire. Hopefully, you’ll get a military tribune for this (I didn’t).

Results: MD K MR
Aulus 545 640 443
Captain 641 120 1

-Aulus (alone) to mound SE, build fort
-Illyrians, Velites to Bireme
-Bireme to coast due south of fort
-Aulus to Bireme
-Illyrians to fort
-Bireme to S
-Appolonia Diplomat to SW of Macedonian diplomat
-Barter trade agreement
-Sell Map info (830)
-Alliance with Macedon (1440)
-Move this diplomat now to the NW of the Greek army to the south in Thermon
-Trade agreement
-Sell map, Alliance (2630)
-Amulius, 2 Velites, Hastati to Bireme south of Appolonia
-Disembark SE of Thermon
-Diplomat at Croton and Tiberious army into Bireme
-Disembark north of Syracuse
-Diplomat north of Syracuse bribes Greek army (5080)
-Diplomat near Thermon bribes Greek army (3480)
-Amulius hires Hoplites and betrays the Greeks, set siege of Thermon (ram)
-Tiberious sets siege of Syracuse (ram, 3 ladders)
-Bireme NE of Syracuse blockades port.
-Diplomat at Syracuse proposes ceasefire to Greek diplomat (2000)
-reset both sieges and blockade
-Thermon Bireme to SE of Amulius
-Diplomat at Tarentum to NW towards Capua
-Diplomat at Thermon to east to block mountain pass
-Croton set to growth policy and build diplomat
-Appolonia set to growth policy and build land clearance
-Salona set to growth policy and build governor’s house
-Tarentum build Equites and Temple to Juno

Turn 3: Senate Mission: Take Patavium

-Diplomat to Capua (agreement for you to attack Greeks for 640)
-Diplomat to E of Rome (Agreement for you to attack Greeks for 600)
-Tiberious hires Hoplites and Illyrians and assaults

Battle 3: Syracuse:
Tiberious, 2 Vet Hastati, 2 Hastati, Vet Equites, Vet Velites, Hoplites, Illyrians
Vs. Dionysios and Hoplites

Objectives:
Kill valuable son of Greece and enslave populace without losing too many casualties.

Strategy: Throw stuff at his Hoplites while keeping his horse at bay with your hoplites, simple enough. Lure them away from the town center for an easy victory.

Results: MD K MR
Tiberious 1313 127 1198
Dionysios 229 135 102

-Amulius attacks Thermon

Battle 4: Thermon
Amulius, 2 Velites, Hastati, Hoplites
Vs. Antigonos and Hoplites

Objectives: Enslave populace while killing valuable son of Greece without losing Hastati.
Strategy: Use Hoplites to keep Antigones from charging. Use ranged attacks to draw his hoplites from the square. Push Antigones out of square with hoplites. (Or seal him out once he goes to chase ranged attackers.)

Results: MD K MR
Amulius 631 68 511
Antigonos 208 110 140

-Aulus Bireme to tree grove just south of Thermon border
-Thermon diplomat to next mountain pass S of Larissa
-Aulus disembark and move to mountain pass where diplomat was and build fort
-Bireme to cove NWW of Thermon, velites disembark
-Amulius army to Bireme SE of Thermon, move due east and disembark towards Athens. March to the SE.
-Diplomat at Syracuse barters with Greek diplomat for ceasefire (3000)
-Tiberious army (leaving behind Peltasts) and diplomat to Bireme and land SEE of Lilybaeum
-Diplomat at Lilybaeum (trade rights) (map 1000) (alliance 2050)
-Diplomat at Croton moves north west to the NE of Tarentum’s copper
-Thermon Bireme north to fishing village
-Bireme N of Corinth merge with the Thermon bireme
-Syracuse set to growth policy, shipwright, repair, bireme, try to cue peasant to keep Syracuse from rioting)
-Croton, trader, bireme
-Tarentum, equites
-Salona, land clearance
-Thermon, growth policy, destroy Shrone to Hermes, repair, Velites, Land Clearance

Turn 4:
-Diplomat at Thermon towards Athens
-Aulus to Bireme to south, disembark to mountain pass south of Larissa and build fort
-Velites NW of Thermon to fort N of Thermon
-Velites in Thermon to fort south of Larissa
-Aulus to Bireme, land east near Athens, march NE
-Amulius siege Athens (Hire Illyrians, ram, ladder)
-Syracuse Bireme to SE of Lilybaeum
-Lilybauem Bireme join the Bireme you just moved
-Tiberious siege Lilybaeum (2 Ram)
-Croton Bireme to coast directly north of Tarentum
-Tarentum 2 Equites to Bireme on north coast
-Diplomat at Tarentum to Gaulish diplomat (Trade rights, Map 1500, Alliance 1040) then moves W
-Diplomat at Rome (attack Carthage:?), to Scipii Diplomat (attack Carthage:?), to Arretium (attack Carthage:?) (I didn’t have any luck here and couldn’t get a deal. You might do better) to NW of Arretium
-Syracuse, Bireme, cue 4 peasants
-Croton, Bireme
-Appolonia, Trader
-Thermon, Velites
-Tarentum, Equites, Trader

Turn 5: Cassius comes of age
-Cassius, Equites to Bireme N of Tarentum
-Bireme N of Tarentum moves NW towards island
-Amulius assaults Athens (join Aulus if you can, I couldn‘t, a Macedon army was in the way)

Battle 5: Athens
Amulius, Hastati, Vet Velites, Velites, Hoplites, Illyrians
Vs. 3 Hoplites and Peltasts

Objectives: Occupy Athens so as to keep Population high
Stategy: Lure away Peltasts, Lure away Hoplites with ranges attacks

Results: MD K MR
Amulius 673 293 534
Captain 617 163 322

-Aulus to Athens
-Aulus, move Merc Captain, Slave Trader, Exotic Slave, etc. to Amulius
-Tiberious assaults Lilybaeum

Battle 6: Lilybaeum
Tiberious, 2 Vet Hastati, Vet Velites, Vet Equites, 2 Hastati, Hoplites
vs. Theages and Peltasts

Objectives: Kill valuable son of Carthage and enslave populace
Strategy: Try to lure Peltasts away and charge with General and Equites. Theages will counter charge. Seal him off form the town square with hoplites.

Results: MD K MR
Tiberious 1047 102 918
Theages 206 133 104

-merge Vet Hastati at Lilybaeum
-Tiberious army sans smaller Vet Hastati and diplomat to Bireme, move to NE of Carthage (fight ships if in way of landing)
-Diplomat at Carthage (ceasefire 4000)
-Tiberious sieges Carthage (Sap, 3 ladders, hire Libyan and Numidian mercs)
-Diplomat at Carthage to Numidian diplomat (Trade Rights, Map 1000, try for Alliance, I couldn’t get one for money)
-Lilybaeum, repair, retrain, hastate, port (to import Carthingian grain)
-Syacuse Bireme W towards Carthage
-Carthage Bireme E to be adjacent to Bireme that just headed this way, blockade port
-Syracuse, decue peasants, cue Bireme and 2 peasants
-Salona, Trader
-Thermon, Trader, diplomat
-Athens, low taxes, destroy temple to Athena, repair, shrine to Juno, diplomat, cue 2 peasants
-Diplomat at Athens to N
-Bireme at Croton to SE
-Bireme at Athens W (merge with Bireme from Croton)
-Diplomat at Arretium to north between Mediolanum and Patavium
-Diplomat at Rome to N to Ariminum
-Croton, Communal Farming, Bireme
-Tarentum, Equites

Try it. It's a nasty opening. 8 Regions by turn 5. You'll take Carthage on the following turn. Yum Yum.

[limitedwhole]

Just to clarify, Tiberious does not double back. he takes the following path,

Syracuse=>Lilybaeum=>Carthage=>Thapsus=>Lepsis Magna=>Cyrenica=>Sparta=>Corinth

Amulius path is

Appolonia=>Thermon=>Athens=>Kyodonia=>Rhodes=>Helicanarsus=>Sardis (Ithink)=>Territory on far north of Asia minor(can't remember name)=>Byzantium=>Macedonian Capital(can't remeber name)

Make sure you get deals for your Roman allies to attack the Gauls. It will divert Julii forces away from teh island to teh west of Italy so that you can take it with a few Hastati you produce in Lilybaeum. Also they will soften up the Gauls for when Cassius hits them at Patavium. Otherwise, Cassius will find his 3 Equites, illyrians, and Barbarian mercs staring down like 1500 Gauls.

[limitedwhole]

Sorry to post again. Sardis may not be a territory you take. Hard for me to remember the Asia minor names. Bypass the Seluicid territory and take it to the Greeks and rebels on eth Asia minor coast. you want to ally with the seleucids because the y will trade with you while you dispatch with the Macedons and will keep Egypt back so that they stay smaller.

[limitedwhole]

Also, just because we are not at war with the Macedons does not mean we cannot use subversion. Use spies at Larissa to drive teh income through teh floor, and pin down their army their. It cannot leave or else a revolt will take place. Also after opening trade with the Seleucids and taking teh Collosus, you can fford to cancel trade with them a few turns prior to the war to make sure they are bled dry before the war even begins.

[limitedwhole]

In prior games, i would bribe Gaeus Scipii in order to take Patavium. But this seems no longer possible in teh updated version I got. Using Cassius is allot harder and you simply must have roman support, preferably the Julii to draw them away form teh island to the west and allow you to take it. You could probaly draw the samnites from Salona to meet with him at Segestica to add to his forces. When I use Gaeus I would continue west down teh coast taking the lucritive port town but I don't think this would be possible with Gaeus, you would probably have to stop. Haven't gotten that far in my new game though.

[limitedwhole]

yo, anyone know how many posts I need to become a full member? I want to post in teh main forums.

[Ludens]

yo, anyone know how many posts I need to become a full member? I want to post in teh main forums.
Promotion is not based on post-count, but on participation. You have to post a couple of times so the moderators can see how you interact with other patrons, but promotion mainly depends on posting in a friendly and helpful manner. More information can be found in the Guild FAQ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=45416).

I'd like to add that this kind of spamming is not exactly conductive towards obtaining full membership.

[limitedwhole]

Darn another error. Sorry been awhile since I first played and the new version is different. Cassius route should be Segestica=>Patavium=>Mediolanum=> Segesta.

If you play this strategy you can hold each of your roman allies to two territories.

Also did they reprogram teh rebels. i noticed a 3 star general pop up at the start of teh game near Appolonia despite it not being blue or red. Their appear to be more rebel fleets and they always attack you every turn. they also always win even when you have greater strength. Whats up with that. My first campaign on vanilla I had a perfect win loss rating on VH/VH. That no longer seems feasible with these brutal rebel fleets.

You should not cue a DIP at Tarentum on turn one. You can do with one less DIP on the Italian mainland for now. Just make sure to get loans from teh other romans as you go up the peninsula if you need them (lump sum for tribute). You really need every bireme you can get in this version. (1.5) I think. Also, does anyone else think it is lame that you can't bribe the other roman family members. Bribery and treachery was was what roman internal politics was all about. i understand them raising the cost of bribery as it was over powered, but disalowing roman bribes? Seriously I can't pick up some scipii hastati for cash?

[limitedwhole]

I usually don't like getting military units for missions as you have plenty at the start for major conquests and mercenaries will allow you to replace losses and augment your forces, but getting a free unit for the Macedon trade agreement is pretty big. Whether a Bireme, Triarii for Cassius army, or Equites (For Cassius, allowing one more Bireme build) this is a big reward early. You simply must get as many ships in the water as early as possible to play this strategy. The triarii with the samnites and BArbarian mercs will give Cassius three lines of infantry to go against the Gauls. With the 2-3 Equites and Cassius this battle will be allot easier.

[limitedwhole]

Also on turn 5, don't produce Equites at Tarentum, you don't need anymore equites. Bireme. Get those ships in the wtare as fast as possible. Don't worry too much about the Carthaginian fleet, once you take their major cities they will retreat them.

[limitedwhole]

A little update a Cathage. this is a tough area so I will give a little battel advice. Cathage will usually fall easily. Why becasue the Carthiginians are worried about the Numidians to teh west, but they will bring back a big ass army to meet you at Thapsis. Instead of sieging Thapsus and having them reinforce I swing up to hit them in the open fields. They will far out number you but have several town militia. Here is the tactic I use again and again when outnumbered. Tiberious fought three battle at Thapis, two in the fields, and one at Thapsus.

Make two battles where there was one.

If you divide teh battle into two battles you can lose one over whelmingly but win the other overwhelmingly. If you do this right, your winning army can then defeat the winning CArthingians (still in the same battle map) due to superior forces. I look at it like this. i expose a Hastati and the remnants of my velites. Sure I lose those forces but in the meantime I manage to clean up his elephants and wittle his town militia and light infantry down to nothing. I fought a battle of 800 versus 1300 with the opponent having Elephants on VH and cam euot with 400 men left. Major victory. I then fought another battle out numbered 400 versus 550 and came out with 300 men then recruited a merc. i then fought a battle 400 versus 600 (he was split due to reinforce and came out with 300 men. Tiberious is true war hero in Carthage. "He has fought these dogs several times and never lost. He has won many great victories for Rome. Let this be another." If you can dfeeat 2450 Carthingians with 900 troops and come out on top, you are a true roman general.

[limitedwhole]

It's not spamming when you are posting useful info.

[Ludens]

It's not spamming when you are posting useful info.
It is if you are posting several posts when one would have sufficed.

[limitedwhole]

I'm sorry. i don't have time to write essays and prrofread them. I post as I think of things. I was trying to post helpful "speed play" notes, put out an opening for critique, and talk about diplomacy. i didi this in several post because I haven't played in awhile and my opeing became flawed around turns 8-9 so I needed to change a few things early to help get more ships in teh water. I had questions about the changed from vanilla to 1.5 etc. What bums me out is whenever you post in an online forum people are like on "patrol". Stop spamming! Wrong forum! Move post! Monitor alert! i mean I'm just trying to communicate strategy to fellow gamers and get feedback. I sorry if I broke it up into several posts but I kept remembering things I wanted to post and, like I said its a forum not an essay contest. If I was just posting things like, "My armies are mack!", "My armies are superdooper!", "This game is awesome!" "Wassup with that!" That's spamming. I wrote several postes on a general theme. Sorry.

[Ludens]

It's okay. The moderator of this forum will be able to merge your posts. I misconstructed your posting spree as an original way of increasing postcount. I understand you are writing down your ideas as they appear to you, but it may be wise to wait a little before pressing "submit reply". This is not a chatbox, so there is no hurry to post, and while we don't expect essays, well-constructed posts are easier to read.

As for your questions, the A.I. gets a very big bonus in autocalced battles (like naval ones) if you set strategic difficulty to VH. This is why your ships tend to lose even though they have the advantage. Bribing Roman troops is off course very historical, but it was also very easy to use against the poor A.I., so the programmers changed the code to make bribing an act of war. Since you cannot declare war on the other Roman factions until you have sufficient popularity in Rome, I suspect that the reason why you cannot bribe them.

[limitedwhole]

Also, this was probably obvious, but I forgot about it myself until restarting my game. I got BAd FArmer on the first end turn. No crap. Talk about bad luck. Anyways, another reason to set up the building cycle in Tarentum and Croton this way is so Vibius can go back and forth and get credit for all the buildings you want him to.

So turn one: finish shrine to Juno
Turn 2: go to Croton to finish port
Turn 3: go to Tarentum and finish Temple to juno
turn4: go to Croton and finish trader
turn5: go to tarentum and finish trader

etc.

This could be bad though. There is a better chance he picks up architect, good builder, good trader, good administrator, and good taxman, but also a better chance he picks up bad farmer. Another reason not do this would be that he misses out on a chance for a physician on turn 4 at Tarentum.

[rotorgun]

@ limitedwhole,

Your posts are very interesting. I don't think I've seen such detailed instructions before, even in the RTW guides posted in this forum. Just curious, but can these highly detailed moves really apply in general from game to game? As you have mentioned, you have had to restart your game several times when certain outcomes didn't result as expected. I mean no offense, but don't you think that a good account of what transpired over a number of turns, with some mention of ideas that have worked for you would be sufficient? This game is very randomized, and I have rarely seen two games play the same way twice using the same faction.

[limitedwhole]

Hey rotor gun. Thanks for the reply. In general I do not restart games much. The main reason I restarted a few times is that 1.5 is different from vanilla and I had to change my opening. The main reason for this was not realising how many rebel ships would be in the water. I needed to adjust my opening to get that extra bireme out in the water. Another reason I might restart is if Vibius gets poor farmer on teh first turn. This just pisses me off and I don't mind taking the extra 10 minutes to play the first turn over again.

Although every game is different the first few turns should be very similar. The game won't grow too divergent until aorund turn 10 or so.

I wanted to leave detailed instruction of the first 5 turns to show off the basic startegy I have which is to maximize speed and flexibility. Obviously bad things will happen. Sometimes I just cope with them, sometimes I reload.

If a rebel army pops up somewhere and I lose some income from pillaging so be it. If Amulius falls in the first battle to a peltast I reload.

I don't really reload for that much. I do find myself reloading allot on diplomacy , because it is different form vanilla. On vanilla I had an intuitive feel for what deals to offer and what would be excepted. Not so on 1.5. I'm still getting that feel.

One example of a difference that won't matter much is the early, senate missions. The first misison is always teh same. If you get Thermon instead of Macedon, so be it.

Cassius will always come of age on turn 5, its just a matter of if he sucks or not, etc.

Basically, show of VERY random things happening not much will make me restart or reload unless I make a blatant mistake.

The main reason I posted this is because the strategy I have is very different form many. I do not feel the need to turn any town into a military production center early for instance. It is a waste of time and money. You can protect your center better by being aggressive on the perifery and extending the distance. Some people complain about the AI, but who in their right mind would load a massive army on a ship and send it into the uncharted territories of my bay and try to assault my capital when my main armies are marching upon their territories. If you force the action they will be forced to react. "To defend everything is to defend nothing."

I use the advance of my armies to defend the territories I have just taken, rather than having them garrison in a defensive position.

Another reason I restarted is because I am still trying to deal with the GAuls properly. As I said before I used ot use a bribed scipii general to do this. Not that this is no longer possible, I am tinkering with a workaround.

The opening isn't dependant upon particular things happening, it can be done every game once it's tinkered out right. I think maybe that their is no faster opening than this. You secure all four major naval tradse centers early. You have pimp cities. You just need to keep your enemies in aposistion they cannot attack your rear, with diplomacy and a continued march. If my armies are sitting still, they are doing nothing. I move them aggressively every turn.

[gardibolt]

Yeah, bribery is pretty much out of the picture until after you have all of Greece and are pulling in 50K per turn (and even then, I'm usually refused).

I didn't find the Thracians to put up much of a defense in my Brutii campaign, but I had arranged a treaty with the Dacians (who oddly enough, remained faithful to our alliance:juggle2: ) and they were smacking the Thracians around for many years before I got around to them.

[limitedwhole]

I spend my capital to bribe the greeks early on in order to crush them. Bribing generals is definately off imits until you are pulling in some major cash.

I agree with you about Thrace and DAcia. I like to play these powers against each other in order to weaken them. I have gone so far as to bribing Thracian armies that were sieging the Dacian capital just to keep parrity. If you keep these too countries from taking over one anaother you will keep them in a nasty war for along time and they will be easy pickings once you decide to conquer them.

[rotorgun]

I spend my capital to bribe the greeks early on in order to crush them. Bribing generals is definately off imits until you are pulling in some major cash.

I agree with you about Thrace and DAcia. I like to play these powers against each other in order to weaken them. I have gone so far as to bribing Thracian armies that were sieging the Dacian capital just to keep parrity. If you keep these too countries from taking over one anaother you will keep them in a nasty war for along time and they will be easy pickings once you decide to conquer them.

Very hard to bribe a Greek army, an occasional family member or a diplomat yes, but bribing an army will require too much capital. Good idea about Dacia and Thrace. Don't forget that the Thracians are the natural enemies of Macedonia as well. It's really interesting when you can get all three fighting each other.
:wall:

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

it always seems that no matter what Dacia and Thrace are destined to go to war. i enjoy watching to neighboring nations kill each other. then i just sweep in and take the remains

[limitedwhole]

You can bribe the Grrek army near Thermon on the second turn for about 3500. You can bribe the Greek army near Syracuse for about 6000 on the second turn. Such a policy descimaes their holdings near you and allows you to take two important territories as welll as getting rid of two of their valuable sons in warfare with light casualties. I use diplomacy to raise the funds. Definately not offlimits if you can bribe two armies on turn 2. When I say armies I mean groups of 4-6 units not nescessarily 20 man stacks. AFter at it is the second turn.

[limitedwhole]

Game Update:

I used the opening listed above with a few changes such as using loans to make up for the bribe cost increase. I am currently on the 13th turn. Here is the data followd by a brief synopsis of the later events.

Regions: 21 Average: 1.46 taken per turn
Tarentum, Croton, Syracuse, Lilybaeum, Caralis, Carthage, Thapsus, Lepcis Magna, Cyrene, Mediolanum, Patavium, Segestica, Salona, Appolonia, Thermon, Athens, Kyodonia, Rhodes, Halicarnassus, Pergamum, Byzantium

Family Members: 20

Allies: Rome, julii, Scipii, Macedon, Seleucids, Dacia, Numidia
Enemies: Carthage, Gauls, Greeks

Senate Rating: 9 People Rating: 5

Amulius march went as planned.
Tiberious took heavy casualties in Thapsus and is currently returning to the Greek mainland to attack Sparta but with a force smaller than I would like.
Cassius is pushing down the coast towards Massala.

My ploy to create a war on the Greek mainland between MAcedon and Greece worked a little too well. I had entended the Greeks to die at the gates of the Macedons at Corinth. However, they seem to have conquered that territory with relatively light casulaties. They also received unforseen reinforcements from the east by ship. The situation around Athens is tense and it comes under siege every turn now. Fortunately for me they can not assault it and are forced to try and starve me out. Diplomacy has managed to break the siege twice allowing me access to enter two new sons to pick up ancilliaries. The current garrison is 2 Equites and 4 Generals, which is not good considering they are besieged by 2 Armoured hoplites, 3 Hoplites and a Spartan hoplites. However, Tiberious should be landing near Sparta which is now poorly defending next turn drawing these forces away. The situation is close to being resolved.

The fact that the Greeks have taken Sparta may indeed be a boon, as it allows me to take this region without fighting the MAcedons.

Whether to send Amulius further on into the east and begin a war with Pontus or have him double back to assist with the Greeks and then wage war against the MAcedons is a current dilemma.

Cassius has performed well in the north versus the Gauls and currently marches east to expand my holdings along the coast. Beyond the rebel held Massala is another Gaulish territory which will put them in quite a bind.

The MAcedonian/Thracian war is steeming. On some acounts I wish the leave the MAcedons in place to weaken them and let them contend with the Thracians. The Thracians are held in with only two territories, by my allies the Macedons and Dacians, but could break out at any moment. I fear what a strong Thrace could do to my poorly defended and far strung empire. I do mantain good relations with them somehow, but I fear that when I pull forces out of byzantium they may double cross me and attack.

The Seulcids at this point still have a large empire. They are under siege far to the east though I do not know to what entent. The Egyptians are at peace but growing in power. I fear they will attack the seleucids soon and in some ways wish to send AMulius starit east at Egypt to take Salamis and Jerusaleum to weaken them. But at the same time, I wish the seleucids to take the brunt of their eyre.

The pitiful Julii did manage to hold Segesta as Gaul did not attack them (arggghhh) but still they are hemmed in with only three territories. The trash that are the scipii are still at two.

The Numidians have been quiet, alfully quite. They now have large borders with me. Perhaps our alliance will grow thin?

[rotorgun]

The same situation arose during my last Brutii campaign. I wouldn't worry too much about Macedonia right now. You will have to fight them in the end if you want to control the Greek Peninnsula, but for now they will help keep the Greeks off balance. Work on finishing off the Greeks on their home ground first, as it will reap you the most economically. Control of Athens, Sparta, Corinth, and Kydonia will make an excellent trade foundation once the ports are upgraded. For you will need to do so in order to survive the coming naval war with the rest of the Greek city-states. They will not give up such wealth without a fight, and their best strategic weapon is their navy. Try to send some spys to the Anatolian coastal towns to gather information on their strength. The best way to beat the Greeks is to take away their ports and isolate their hinterland. Then finish off the now weakened cities there.

I know that building a navy is expensive, but it will become useful in many ways in the midlle and end game turns. I try to use my navy in the same fashion as the Brirtish Royal Navy was throughout its history-patrol of the shipping lanes, convoy escort, strategic movement of armies, raids, and above all, blockade. Drive the enemy fleet from the seas, protect your trade from enemy and pirate attacks, block your enemy's trade, and he is yours. I think that you will become very wealthy by controlling the Agean sea-trade. It will also give you the option of attacking the Palestinian or Egyptian coasts later on.

Back on the mainland, once the Greeks are finished off, you will have to make war on Macedonia to consolidate your gains. It is inevitable that this clash will come. The Senate, those old men in fine togas, will probably order you to keep the peace, but you must do what is the best for Rome. Once they see that you are increasing the coffers of the treasury in Rome, and how popular you will be with the people, they will come around and give their reluctant support. Just grease a few palms with your newly gained denarii. Check out some of the Brutii posts. I got some great advice from Seamus Fermanagh, Garvanko, and Craterus during my campaign. It was a blast to play the Brutii, as I feel that they are the most challenging of the Roman factions to play.

Good luck. May the dice of fate roll in your favor!

[limitedwhole]

Thanks for the reply rotor gun. I had managed to remove all Greek presence with the exception of Corinth and Sparta and now have armies at both gates. I brought Amulius back to deal with the army at the gates of Athens. This harrowing battle involved 5 generals on my side with an equites and abunch of skirmishers. I was forced to charge into their vast number of hoplites with my generals headon (dangerous I know) once I isolated one or two. Luckily the initial impact of the spears didn't slay any of my generals and the impact of that many heavy cal forced them to flee. This battle was awesome and definately harrowing. I was unsure of the outcome until the very end. I defeated their Spartans and several armoured hoplites. Whew. Now they only have weak troops left but they are holed up behind stone walls and I fear the casualty levels as the Macedonians made a treaty with Thrace after holding their northern territory and now have a MASSIVE army at LArissa, just waiting to break through my forts and into my undefended territory. Lets holding some bribery will pave the way. Unfortunately for me the Thracian war just trained the MAcedonian troops. Once Macedon is cleaned up though this game is money. Onto Pontus and the Egyptians. I hope I can get 50 territories by 40 turns. Thats my goal anyways. My navy is massive, but it is very broken up. I have compelete dominance with the exception of rebels. I have fought off like 8 rebel fleets of three ships in 13 turns. Ridiculous really. Anyways have at least 25-30 ships in the water by turn 15 now. I have been shipping peasants from Croton/Tarentum to Appolonia, Salona. Patavium to Segestica. Rhodes is shipping to Kydonia. Pergamum to Helicarnassus. Each of these territories is now about port size or have reached it on the fifteenth turn.

The scum that is the Numidians attacked Cyrene. They didn't bring a geeral so getting a diplomat down their might work. Anyways, my forces in Carthage have been building and I think it is time to punish them for their treachery.

[limitedwhole]

Game Update: Turn 19 261 B.C.
Control 29 Regions Average taken per turn 1.42

Added: Cirta, Massilia, Narbo Martius, Sparta, Corinth, Larissa, Salamis, Sidon

To start with I now have collected 6 military tribunes and hold two offices after the second round of ellections. I was hoping for more, but I'll take what I can get.

Taking Sparta and Corinth proved easier than I thought once appropriate troops were shipped into place from my fleet at Athens. As well they has buildings to produce equites and Principes. I built my first temple of Mars at Sparta and plan to produce Principes their every turn until the reform. After enslaving 26 territories I was hoping the reforms would come soon.

I have managed to stabilized the barabian lands NW of MAcedon and they are all at peace, despite being allied with Macedon or myself. The Dacians I am very concerned about as they could split my empire in two and I have little or no defense while in the MAcedonian war. I am giving them gifts of tribute hoping to sate their greed for now. This is good, as I am certainly weak right now and cannot spare any troops to defend my northern border. All my forces on teh Greek mainland were concentrated on Lariissa.

I destroyed 1000 of 2000 MAcedonian troops in the field with Tiberious army then set siege to Larissa using a little trick. My army could not reach Larisa this turn but my CAV could. So I used Tiberious to build a fort one space away form Larissa and have my infantry and peasants hole up their while my cav set siege. they were only able to build one Ram, but that was enough as I just used it twice. The battle of LArissa lasted forever. Even after taking out half the MAcedonian cav, he still had 6 units and with about 12 spearman units this was long. I used my one archer and 6 velites to the max, just sitting at and stopping up the gate, while they went to work. After the second hole in the wall was made my hasati and principes attacked from the side while the thracians and hoplites moved through the door. My cav poored in htrough the side whole able to stay free from all the spears until they were pressed up.

Despite seding major forces with AMulius I still took Larissa which I am very happy with because it was quite a gamble. This gives me a headstart against the Egyptians and I hit their economic heartland right when they were having a financial downturn, taking Salamis and Sidon. I am planning on moving on Jerusaleum soon. Sidon and Jerusaluem will serve to rpudcue peasants to grow Salamis so that I can get a port up and running and start raking in some more cash.

Despite dominating the agean, my cashflow is still ow due to the massive quantity of naval vessels I have in play. i have major fleets in every sphere of influence.

Unfortunately, Cassius is bogged down at NArbo MArtius. I would prefer to push the war into spain, but to do so would be suicide. The Gauls have large forces above me and until they are dealt with, Cassius is pinned down. I do have reinforcements on the way though to relieve him and allow him to drift down teh coast.

My forces at Carthage crushed the Numidians at their capital due to their treachery then swung up to Palma. I plan on swinging them over to assist Cassius with the spanish.

Tiberious is marching on Thessalonica after taking LArissa and looking to clean up the the Macedonian threat. Once Thessalonica is mine they pose no real threat.

My first real army (built) is moving onto Pontus. His 5 Hastati, 2 Thracian, BAsternae, and 7 Equites will not be stopped.

Currently I have a ship cycle relocating peasants from Syracuse, Lilybauem, Carthage and thapsis to Lepcis Magni and Cyrene to grow these territories to port sized.

MAssalia is being grow via peasnats from Patavium and Mediolanum.

The cyrenen situation was resolved via bribery. The territory is safe from dirty Numidian hands for now.

I had a chance to grab power in Rome but didn't take it as I have essentially no armies within range of Rome. I did move an adopted 4 star general north towards Patavium to start building an army for teh civil war. He will attack the Julii. I hope to kick the slight SCipii presense of the Syracuse island via a captain and forces form Carthage. I will push north to remove the scipii presence via forces created at Sparta. This is all several turns off, but the planning needs to commence now as the Senate is just starting to get warry. My romans allies are very infantry heavy. I will need to produce many more infantry to take Italy. The MAcedonian war will consolidate my territories, and remove a constant worry of treachery, but it has angered the senate. They did everything, but order me to come to peace. Okay, actually they did order me via the diplomacy window but not as a mission. Fair enough, but these fools do not understand the difficulty that the MAcedonians create. They are thouroughly warlike and their armies are hardened. Better to take them down now before they get stone walls I think,or worse). I would much prefer to stabilize the senate, after the MAcedonian war and continue to conquest and scheme for the civil war rather than enter into it unprepared. I want to hit the Julli and Scipii so hard simultaneously that they don't even have a response. This will be tough to do in 40 turns. I have about 15 more turns of temple of mars produced principes though which should help out allot.

Will the Marius reforms ever kick in? I have enslaved 26 territories!

[rotorgun]

Game Update: Turn 19 261 B.C.
Control 29 Regions Average taken per turn 1.42
Pretty darn good pace your keepin' boy! That's what we call "travelin'" down here in Tennessee.

Added: Cirta, Massilia, Narbo Martius, Sparta, Corinth, Larissa, Salamis, Sidon
Impressive.


Taking Sparta and Corinth proved easier than I thought once appropriate troops were shipped into place from my fleet at Athens. As well they has buildings to produce equites and Principes. I built my first temple of Mars at Sparta and plan to produce Principes their every turn until the reform. After enslaving 26 territories I was hoping the reforms would come soon.
You'll like the benefits of that temple of Mars. Great experience benefits to your training regimen. It does come at a price to your public order, but se la geurre!

I destroyed 1000 of 2000 MAcedonian troops in the field with Tiberious army then set siege to Larissa using a little trick. My army could not reach Larisa this turn but my CAV could. So I used Tiberious to build a fort one space away form Larissa and have my infantry and peasants hole up their while my cav set siege. they were only able to build one Ram, but that was enough as I just used it twice. The battle of LArissa lasted forever. Even after taking out half the MAcedonian cav, he still had 6 units and with about 12 spearman units this was long. I used my one archer and 6 velites to the max, just sitting at and stopping up the gate, while they went to work. After the second hole in the wall was made my hasati and principes attacked from the side while the thracians and hoplites moved through the door. My cav poored in htrough the side whole able to stay free from all the spears until they were pressed up.
Good work. I'll try that little trick when the opportunity arises in my games. I also appreciate the combined arms approach of using your light troops to distract the enemy at the gates while your real strike force surprises them in the flank. Very cunning.

Despite dominating the agean, my cashflow is still ow due to the massive quantity of naval vessels I have in play. i have major fleets in every sphere of influence.
Are you remembering to upgrade your porrts? Your cashflow will increase if you do, because of the extra trading fleets it provides. The better warship types will help your naval campaign too. Try to economise whenever you can.
I generally try to keep no more than 4 Peasants or Town watch in quiet sectors, with a small mobile field army to discourage rebel activity. A few Hastati, an Archer or two, and at least one Equite is a good balanced force for such duties. I also am sure to merge as many units as I can before retraining them, unless I am getting a weapons or armor upgrade, to lessen the costs on each turn. I also keep my tax rates as high as I can until I get the blue face.

My forces at Carthage crushed the Numidians at their capital due to their treachery then swung up to Palma. I plan on swinging them over to assist Cassius with the spanish.
That's what comes from having a proper navy. The late Lord Nelson would approve of such a bold plan.

My first real army (built) is moving onto Pontus. His 5 Hastati, 2 Thracian, BAsternae, and 7 Equites will not be stopped.
Pontus too? Taking them and the Egyptians on will be a challenge. As you are moving on so many fronts, you will have to have a good logistics plan. Be sure that you have reinforcements available for sea transfer from front to front. I would use Sicilia and Greece for this task. Make them good production centers. As in chess, he who dominates the center, dominates the game.

Currently I have a ship cycle relocating peasants from Syracuse, Lilybauem, Carthage and thapsis to Lepcis Magni and Cyrene to grow these territories to port sized.
Intersesting approach. I don't believe I've ever thought of trying that.


I had a chance to grab power in Rome but didn't take it as I have essentially no armies within range of Rome. I did move an adopted 4 star general north towards Patavium to start building an army for the civil war. He will attack the Julii. I hope to kick the slight Scipii presense off the Syracuse island via a captain and forces form Carthage. I will push north to remove the scipii presence via forces created at Sparta. This is all several turns off, but the planning needs to commence now as the Senate is just starting to get warry. My romans allies are very infantry heavy. I will need to produce many more infantry to take Italy. The Macedonian war will consolidate my territories, and remove a constant worry of treachery, but it has angered the senate. They did everything, but order me to come to peace. Okay, actually they did order me via the diplomacy window but not as a mission. Fair enough, but these fools do not understand the difficulty that the Macedonians create. They are thouroughly warlike and their armies are hardened. Better to take them down now before they get stone walls I think, or worse. I would much prefer to stabilize the senate, after the Macedonian war and continue to conquest and scheme for the civil war rather than enter into it unprepared. I want to hit the Julli and Scipii so hard simultaneously that they don't even have a response. This will be tough to do in 40 turns. I have about 15 more turns of temple of mars produced principes though which should help out allot.
The was similar to how my Brutii campaign went concerning the Macedonian Wars. I was actually assigned a mission to procure a peace agreement with them, which I did, long enough to rest and reinforce my armies for the knock out blow. As for the approaching civil war, its a bit early in only 40 turns to initiate it. If you do, then try to make sure that you are at peace with as many factions as you can, and definately have trade rights with them. Your income will drop dramatically when fighting the other Romans as you will lose your two best trading partners when they become your enemies. I wasn't able to think about such an alternative until at least 40 BC or so.


Will the Marius reforms ever kick in? I have enslaved 26 territories!
You may be moving a little too fast, but I think that your continued emphisis on growing your populations will help. You are doing very well so far. I'll look forward to future posts.

[limitedwhole]

"Pretty darn good pace your keepin' boy! That's what we call "travelin'" down here in Tennessee.

Impressive."

Thanks. :2thumbsup:

"You'll like the benefits of that temple of Mars. Great experience benefits to your training regimen. It does come at a price to your public order, but se la geurre! "

Yep I plan on having only two of these. One at Sparta for ground troops and one at Larissa for Cav. These territories don't have reources or particularly great sea lanes, so Temple of Mercury doesn't work well. they are also centered and in a good position to attack Italy from.

"Good work. I'll try that little trick when the opportunity arises in my games. I also appreciate the combined arms approach of using your light troops to distract the enemy at the gates while your real strike force surprises them in the flank. Very cunning. "

Thanks. I have found several places where your army will come up only a space short on a march of after landing after naval transport. The 500 denaarii is well worth, the increased turn in speed. I wish I had figured this out sooner. I could have been moving even faster as their were at least three spots I didn't realise this trick. I HATE losing romans. I Always use light mercs at the front gates. A couple units of light troops can usually make a pocket for a Hoplites to get in an set and lock things up, so that the Hastati, Principes, Velite chareg is more effective. Enemy spearmen cannot turn once your hoplites are in the gates.

"Are you remembering to upgrade your porrts? Your cashflow will increase if you do, because of the extra trading fleets it provides. The better warship types will help your naval campaign too. Try to economise whenever you can.
I generally try to keep no more than 4 Peasants or Town watch in quiet sectors, with a small mobile field army to discourage rebel activity. A few Hastati, an Archer or two, and at least one Equite is a good balanced force for such duties. I also am sure to merge as many units as I can before retraining them, unless I am getting a weapons or armor upgrade, to lessen the costs on each turn. I also keep my tax rates as high as I can until I get the blue face."

First thing I upgrade just about every time. I have about 40-50 ships. This accounts for the cost. If I had not lost trade with MAcedon this wouldn't be such a big deal, but as it is I have just enough to build and recruit each turn and no more. The vault is stable but not growing. Yep I try to leave very few if any people engarde. I try to take away avenues of attack and use alliance building as defense. Having naval dominace goes allong way towards never getting attacked. I keep my taxes as high as possible in governed cities reasoning that slaves will grow them. Otherwise starit growth policy with the exception of Carthage in ungoverned.

"That's what comes from having a proper navy. The late Lord Nelson would approve of such a bold plan."

Yep flexibility. Without naval dominance, my forces are left sitting waiting for the Numidians to march for 4 turns to counterattack plus turns for building. As it is, they move on to the next prime target, and reinforcements move up to take their position.

"Pontus too? Taking them and the Egyptians on will be a challenge. As you are moving on so many fronts, you will have to have a good logistics plan. Be sure that you have reinforcements available for sea transfer from front to front. I would use Sicilia and Greece for this task. Make them good production centers. As in chess, he who dominates the center, dominates the game."

I don't usually transfer from fornt to front as the distance is so long. Normally what I do is make use of places I conquer that can produce troops and ship them in bits with smaller navies once naval dominace has been achieved. I don't use Sicilia as it doesn't have production capabilities. I instead use CArthage and Thapsus which is alittle closer and more centered to my western front. Greece is a definate. I has become my center. I do disagree on one point though. He who dominates the periphery wins. It is a matter of having a strong center in order to dominate the periphery. Up till recently I had no center. I just picked up troops whever I could. In a matter of speaking, it is pointless to have a strong center until you get a vast empire which requires a strong center. My strategy can be summed up thusly. If I take a city form the Greeks a turn faster, thats a 2 unit swing in prouduction on the following turn. As well, the Egyptians produced one fewer unit in that time. As well Pontus, etc. If you move fast, you can pick apart each nation in order to keep them small. At that point they pose no real threat. If egypt loses Salamis, Sidon and Jerusaleum, they pose no threat. If you play slow and take like 200 turns the Egyptians will have a vast empire by the time you reach them. Then, its justs two vast empires pounding each other. fun if you like that, but I think keeping them small is tactically better.


"Intersesting approach. I don't believe I've ever thought of trying that."

Works well, these places will never be port sized in forty turns unless, you ship peasants. I try to produce in just about every territory ever turn. Peasnats are the bomb. A small price to pay for rich ports faster. Each peasant unit increase the percent return on growth as well. Kyodonia is rich,rich,rich. Salamis is rich,rich,rich. If you wait 20 turns for them to grow its like watching paint dry. Producing peasnats at places like Carthage and the barabrian territories that have high growth rates or place you have grain imports doesn't make a big dent in the population. just one more reason to have naval dominace.


"The was similar to how my Brutii campaign went concerning the Macedonian Wars. I was actually assigned a mission to procure a peace agreement with them, which I did, long enough to rest and reinforce my armies for the knock out blow. As for the approaching civil war, its a bit early in only 40 turns to initiate it. If you do, then try to make sure that you are at peace with as many factions as you can, and definately have trade rights with them. Your income will drop dramatically when fighting the other Romans as you will lose your two best trading partners when they become your enemies. I wasn't able to think about such an alternative until at least 40 BC or so. "

Senate mission for peace agreement would suck. Glad i didn't get that. Good thing you were able to make use it it and use it to replenish your losses. My idea is to pick apart allot of empires so that their advances pose no real threat to me, and then call a ceasfire leaving on army in place at aeach front. I want to control the richest markets in each regions. Good thing I have been shipping those peasnats to build forts aye? I will control the Salamis, Sidon, Jerusaleum trade center, the Aegean trade center, the bay east of Italy, the Syracuse/east italy trade center, the Kydonian trade center, the Carthingian trade center, and the Palma trade center. Should be plenty of loot once it up and running. Just need ot get those heavy infantry armies in place by turn 40.

"You may be moving a little too fast, but I think that your continued emphisis on growing your populations will help. You are doing very well so far. I'll look forward to future posts."

You my be right, I am getting a little bogged down and my fleets are becoming a burden, but I haven't stopped yet. Hope to post agin soon once I have some time to play some more turns. They are getting quite long now as I am moving like 5-6 armies a turn and 20 small stacks of ships. MArius triggers when Rome gets a certain size, no? What are the triggers, i would like it to happen soon. Massive slaves near Egypt. Hears hoping that'll do it. I want legions when I march on Rome!

Best and thanks for all the remarks.:2thumbsup:

[rotorgun]

It sounds like you have a good strategy going limitedwhole. I can see now why you have attacked so many factions. I had never given it much thought as I have always tried a more traditional approach. I generally only like to have no more than two or three enemies at one time, because I'm not the best micromanager in the world, and I like the more "historiacal" approach. Stll, your concepts have merit.

I agree that your navy may be a bit large. If you can afford to economize here I would. 40 to 50 ships are very expensive, and If you have dominated the seas, you could put some of those crews "on the beach" to save money. It sounds as if you could use the denarii saved to strengthen your land forces, as they are now approaching a critical juncture.

I hadn't thought of Carthage and Thaspus as production centers, but yes, they would make better resupply centers as they already have good facilities upon capture. I was thinking more along the lines of a more traditional approach. I guess I must like having a big empire to fight against in the end game. Have you already eliminated the Carthaginians and Numidians? In my games, I tend to concentrate on eliminating one faction at a time, thereby leaving no potential enemy in my rear, except the inevitable rebels, as I move on. It's just a more methodical strategy, which suits my style.

All in all, your game should be getting very challenging when you have so many potential enemies ready to exploit any percieved weakness. When the Civil Wars begin, be prepared for them to make their bid for freedom.

I'll be out of town for a couple of weeks, but I'll try to check up on your progress when I get time from another computer. Good luck, and may the God Victrix accompany your hosts. :flybye:

[x-dANGEr]

Marius happens as soon as a Roman city builds an 'Imperial Palace' (24k population mark).

[Lorenzo_H]

Marius happens as soon as a Roman city builds an 'Imperial Palace' (24k population mark).
But it doesn't have to be yours, nescessarily. I found this out just recently.

[x-dANGEr]

But it 'must' be a Roman one ;)

[Lorenzo_H]

But it 'must' be a Roman one ;)
Yes - not including the senate.

[limitedwhole]

Game update: TOTAL WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Turn 27: Began the civil war on this turn
Regions: 40 Taken per turn: 1.41
Allies: Thrace, these guys don't do a dang thing. Thankfully they don't attack me either.
Enemies: Julii, Scipii, Macedon (all but removed from the game, holed up in the mountains), Egypt (left decimated and not a threat), Seleucids (dang these guys just came up with like4 stacks out of nowhere), Carthage (One etrritory left and it will be mine soon , mhah, hah hah), Pontus (There entire army was destroy in thefield, they still have a few regions as I moved on to other targets), GAuls (wow, these guys never run out of troops, on the dfeensive against them), Dacia (These guys betrayed me, marched down a tiny army, I reinforced a settlement defended by townwatch and killed one warband unit of theirs, now it no holds barred, they refuse a ceisfire although neither of us is in a position to attack the other.), Numidia (These guys own two territories off in the desert far away from anything useful and half way across the world from each other with no one to trade with but me and they still won't accept a ceisefire.) , Spain (Just wanted their richest territory, now if they want to fight they can die at Osca).

Regions Added: Osca, Palma, Tingi, Thessalonia, Nicomedia, Sardis, Ancyra, Tarsis, Jerusaleum, Alexandria, Memphis

General Strategy: Changed all towns to financial form growth due to approaching civil war about 2 turns ago. All the growth for the first 25 turns now translates into major taxes.

North and Western fronts:
After swinging up take Palma, my forces assisted at Osca. A suitable defensive garrison is in place to hold back teh Spanish. Soe forces went south to assist at Tingi while other returned to NArbo to reinforce this defensive position. After taking Tingi my forces hopped across the pond to attack the BAetica region. In the north I am on the defensive as I need no more expansion for 50 and the Gauls and Spanish are too strong without further reinforcements which I cannot spare due to the civil war.

My armies at Mediolanum and Patavium descended on the Julii at Segesta and Arinumum and blackaded Arinumum. Mediolanum is my weaker strike as it is mainly mercs with some solid romans tossed in for good messure. Arinimum is a massive block of Hastati with EQuites shipped from Greece in reinforcement.

Forces from Carthage and Thapsis landed at Messan to meet with a general and hire merc to siege Messana, the port has been blackaded.

Center:
After Taking Thessalonica with an epic battle Tiberious went west to Italy. Troops in Greece are beeing pumped out every turn and shipped to Italy. Tiberious army is compose of 8 Principes and 4 Hastati plus full Equite compliment. He has a support army of 8 Equites, 4-5 Principes/Hastati plus mercs. More units continue to arrive evry turn to bolster and losses he may face. These two armies laid siege to Capua and the port was blockaded. Ofer 6000 Scippi troops are here as well along with 6, yes 6, generals. A major battle approaches at the next midturn.

EAst:
An aRmy marched on Nicomedia and Ancyra, defeating the majority of the Pontic army at Ancyra in the fields on a sally attempt. They then went SE to Tarsus to betray the Seleucids. In a simultaneous strike, a rear army took Sardis and now marches in support of the main army but is a few truns behind. Out of nowhere the Seleucids come up with 4 stacks that have been sitting in the desert doing nothing. To top this off, there region which was under siege by Armenia became free and they now can muster another full stack. This blood bath will be nasty. My forces at Tarsus are vastly outnumbered and undersiege. Reinforcements are at least two turns away and the siege will occur this midturn. They must win this key battle! A new army composed of forced recruited at Nicomedia and Byzantium now sails towards Sinope. Moved forces at Sidon onto Damascus but had to return before setting siege at a stack from Antioch approached. Amulius took Jerusaleum and fought 5 epic battles here but got no marker. Once he was on his way to Alexandria by ship but had to go back to crush the Egyptians yet again. The upshot of this was when my forces landed at Alexandria, the Egyptians were spent. A governor met up with Amulius by ship and took the reigns at Alexandria along with the withered cal units while they recruited replacements for their lossed. Amulius took Memphis easily. Rather than take Thebes he has been put to ship to sail in reinforement agains the selucids along with the cal units.

So many masisve battles each turn, but the bigggest are yet to come. I guess thats what you get when you fight on like ten fronts. The Seluecids and romans are all that remain between me and world domination!

Planned Regions to take for 50:
Sinope, Antioch, Damascus, BAetica region, Segesta, Arretium, Arininum, Rome, Capua, Massana!

[Dead Knight of the Living]

The imminent release of M2TW has given me total war fever. I'm playing an MTW campaign as the Egyptians and an RTW as the Brutii.

I've never played as the Brutii before. I had a pretty weird beginning to it. I got the initial senate mission to take Apollonia. Did it. Then I met was given a mission to take the city south of that. Thermon I think. I had my heir and two of his brothers with the army.

I won the battle, but lost the heir and another brother. WHat happened was I received the message saying the enemies reinforcements were delayed. SO I pulled off a classic blunder. Routed the whole Greek Army and sent the brothers and heir to chase the routers. Put the battle on fast forward. Reinforcements showed up and I was busy scratching my balls or something. Over half my army got wiped out. I don't know how I won the battle.

Needless to say that set my timeline back a bit. The Scipii took the city north of Sparta. I'm pretty mad about that. For some reason, the Senate gave me the mission to take Patavium from the Gauls. THat's way out of my way.

Went up to besiege. Attacked the fortress with my "new" heir from that first battle. He died quickly. Again, a blunder of laziness. Routed all the Gauls and sent him to give chase. Ran into a Warband Skirmisher unit who hadn't routed and died. My whole army routed. That was the last turn I had to take Patavium. I failed that one.

Next mission was blockade Sparta. Did it. Next mission was blockade Patavium. Did it. Now I'm on the way to Sparta. Only the Macedonians have now laid siege to Thermon. So I had to go rescue Thermon. I have my units in the retraining cue there. After I've reconstituted the Army I have three turns to take Sparta.

Sparta is defended by 7 various phalanx types and an army in the field which is 5 units shy of being fully stacked. SHould be interesting.

Needless to say, I've started this campaign like I've never played the game before. But what is bizarre is my failures have made it a bit more fun than normal.

I should also mention at one point I tried to besiege Larissa with 2 Hastati, 2 Velite and 2 Equites. The Spartans had 3 units in the city. THey relieved the city with an army of 3 militia pikemen, 1 peltast and a general. The phalanx spanked my Hastati's arse.

My equites charged their Peltasts which garnered the attention of their general who counter charged. Bye Bye Equites. But not before I sent one of my Velites in to try to salvage that part of the battle. Bye Bye Velites.

The other Velite I sent to hit the phalanx from the flank with their javelins. It was going fine until the enemy General got done routing the other units. Bye Bye velites. And the three phalanx units easily mopped up my two Hastati.

It was an insignificant defeat. But needless to say, if this were a console game I'd have been slamming my controller against the floor.

[El Diablo]

Hey guys. I am new to the RTW game but am enjoying it.

Just something that I noted from playing last night.

I was attacking the Macedonians (their Capital). I had a fine 6* General but his forces were a little depleted from campaigning so I shipped in some reinforcements by sea (the south) and seiged the city. The 6* General had come from the North and also seiged the city (same turn) but the armies did not merge. The next turn I decided to assault the city but I "attacked" it with my reinforcements rather than the generals army. Oops I thought - but hey no worries, the Generals army showed up as "reinforcements". All good and no problems.

What was a problem was I had not noticed that the city had the plague. So usually when you capture a city and your army occupies it the general (if he is a family member) gets the plague and is effectively taken out of the game for a while.

BUT (finally he get to the point) as I "attacked" with my reinforcements only they occupied the city and my 6* general stayed parked up out the outside of the city - PLAGUELESS and keen to continue the conquest.

Better to be lucky than good sometimes!!!!

I thought this a handy way of taking cities with the plague with out losing guru Generals or family members.

Thoughts????

[Severous]

^ I had not thought of doing that against plague cities.

I do use such tactics when the main stack runs out of movement points. Bring up a fast reinforcement unit, taking care not to join the main stack, and attack from a different location. It means the battle is fought without the combat and morale advantages of the general leading the main stack.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Started a Brute campaign recently (vanilla 1.0; VH/VH).

Took Salona, Kydonia, Appolonia, Syracuse, Segesta, Thermon, Rhodes and Halicarnassus in that order.

Then my best general was swamped by Greek hoplites (I thought my attack would work, but not enough cavalry to both counter his and roll up hoplites so I was annhilated), Macedon betrayed the alliance and has since taken Thermon (the assault force included 450 cavalry) and I have been soundly thumped twice by the Carthas outside of Lilybaum.

Current mission is Thapsus (in progress with decent force) but forces in the Balkans are weak (Appolonia abandoned and likely to fall, Segesta and FL threatened by a huge stack of "neutral" Gauls, and the Senate yelling at me whenever I seek to defend the bridge between Sardis and Hali.

This leaves me sort of betwixt and between. Thoughts on strategic goals I should set at this juncture? Best Roman counter for Mac armies fielding (typical) 3-4 phalanx, 1 General, and 6-12 Lancers?

[whtdoesitmatta]

Yeah I started as brutii, and it was fairly easy, I just always made sure I had a nice big navy to follow my troops around as I took them from island to island, and took over greece, rhodes, kydonia, and all of turkey, I then moved up towards the black sea, when I got bored and went for Rome.

I took 4 full flags, of the best combinations I could have, and sent them to Rome. This left my wars against, Britain, Dacia, Scythia, Egypt, and Armenia wide open, I easily seized capua on my way to rome losing half a flag, and marched on to rome and took that along with the starting colonies for Julii.

I then finished off the scipii at sicily and tried to hold of gaul and the julii from coming down into italy. That was tiny compared to my other problem, see Britain owned the second biggest army in the game, and was pushing down on my weak northprovinces. I also did not put away armenia while I had the chance, and them and eygpt took turns whooping my ass in the east. I am still working ont the campain, and what I plan to do is, send my large armies from sparta corinth and athens to delay britain, while I take my turkish army and take over eygpt and armenia. I don't know how I can keep gaul and julii off me because they don't seem to attack each other just me.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Well now....

I've acquired Patavium, sacked Medialanum twice, taken Carthage, Thapsus, and LilyB (in that order) and followed the Senates directions to blockade Pergamum and return to war with the Greeks. Took Pergamum. Had fun smashing weak Pontic armies to help the Seluc's.

Problems:

Lost a powerful army sent to attack Cirta (the Numids keep sieging both Africa provinces) -- my leader was assassinated just as 2100 numids attacked my siege force of 1300. On VH/VH with no 5 star leader, I was torn to shreds. Assassinated on the eve of battle is a first for me, and this is -- believe it or not -- unreleived vanilla RTW 1.0!

The 5th or 6th attack on Segestica finally swamped me. Lancers with 1 or 2 stripes and phalanxes just ate my troops alive. Lancers get killed, but only after their charge kills my leaders and tears up my best troops -- and Mokdon has 6+ of lancers in every full stack. Aaaargh.

Greece (down to just Sparta) amphibbed to take Kydonia ?!?!?:dizzy2: Same game, and two "They've never done thats...."

I've despatched the Asian army to take it back, but that leaves Pontus free to rebuild and Egypt free to grow (I gave the Eggies Nicomedia after a sack as I had to go after Pergamum and couldn't garrison. Of course, they've kept it no prob with a zero-start garrison).

Won most other non naval engagements, but have lost 2 good commanders in the process. Have no offensive army in Africa (garrisons have to be full stack to stay yellow+), have one rebuilding army in Patavium, and the force in Kydonia. Budget is in the plus, but only a few thousands per turn and there is so much to build and do.....

Lancers and Numid Long shields are killing me. I get them onto the spears, in waves, and I win, only to see them take 2/3 of my rental hoplites. Then I get to fight the next battle with Hastati and Princ's against lancers and I beat them again -- losing 80% casualties. It is, needless to say, hard to make any real headway.

Thoughts?

[grapedog]

I had unlocked the other factions on my old computer, but I got a new computer recently, and I reinstalled and tried out the new(to me) 1.5 patch. Don't have BI yet, though I'll get it soon I think.

So, I'm starting out as the Brutii this time having done Julii the first time. I had a hell of a go as Julii, Brutii seem MUCh easier in terms of cash and opponents. I've only got 12-13 provinces right now, but Im starting the steady march against Macedon now. I own the starting Brutii provinces, the Greek cities right across the bay, and the thin strip of land that heads north to the gaulish town of (can't remember exactly)Patavium I think.

So, I had a mission to start picking on Macedon and I took their first town Larissa since it was completely un-defended...not a single troop stationed there. I think they used a lot of resources fighting the Greeks, then I just swooped in and gobbled up the greek towns, not sure where they went off to.

But, I had my first really adrenaline pumping battle I think i've ever had with this game. Macedon decided to seige one of my small towns, Salona I think, on the coast. It had a token garrison of 1 general(heavy cav), 3 town watch, 1 hatasti, 1 principi and 3 equites. The general had no stars at the beginning and most of the troops were raw, they were travelling south and I had just stationed them in Salona for a turn or two thankfully.

So, Macedon lays siege...they had 4 light cav, 3 ballista, and about 9 phalanx spearmen units. When I was deploying my troops, i noticed my front gate was open...not sure why, and it wouldn't close. I think maybe when I started the battle it would close, but it didn't. I had set my troops up pretty far to the left or right of the main gate in line with where the AI had positioned their battering rams(of which they had three).

I started the battle and 2 light cav just came streaming through my unlocked front gates. All their phalanx spearmen(long pointy stick guys) started coming at me. Through some manuvering and some lucky slaughter, I ended up winning the fight with about 20 troops left. I think I had 4 heavy cav, and about 8 light cav left at the end. I used the insides of the town to come around behind the AI and attack spearmen from the rear. Once I saw their general, I went directly after him sacraficing some town watch in the process but really helped to demoralize them...

One thing I would ask, is there a bug with AI units getting to the center of town and not doing anything past that. There were two units of phalanx spearmen left, and I had about 40 light cav and 15 heavy cav left, and they didn't turn to meet me once they were at my flag. I would attack and draw back, come around from a different angle and attack again. Sometimes they turned to meet me, other times they didn't...the whole fight I see sections of walls being blown down by ballistas and entire sections of my city were on fire.

Overall, it was an exciting battle, I fully expected to lose the town...but I won. I think I killed 98% of them and they killed 98% of my troops, but I started with about half their forces. Needless to say, my surviving 2 light cav came away with some really nice morale and combat bonuses, and my general got two stars for commanding that fight and winning...man, that was an exciting battle.

[bfm]

Hey nice reply grapedog.

I have also started a brutii campaign recently which has been pretty fun up until now. i have now started replacing my town watch units with proper units in my cities to prepare for any eventualities and for easier response and conquest. unfortunately i did lose some of my family members in the battles which now means that i have lots of young family members but few really experienced ones. i am not taking new cities withput the senate's plodding. i have a 8 senate rating and 4 people rating. the fighting with macedon has been the longest and most bloody. anyway i now have half of their six city empire and have enough forces to easily capture the rest... just that i dont feel like conquering them without senate telling me. yeah, i really like to be obedient to the senate ;). i won over 72 battles and lost 14 (yeah I know a bit too high). anyway this gameplay has helped refine my battle strategies further.

[bfm]

Dead Knight of the Living, fund reading your post. Yeah I also lost family members during battles. But anyway I play this game for fun so it really doesn't matter to me if I have a fun battle. But sometimes during really large battles it happens due to a lack of control. I recently lost a 8 star general (Cassius Brutus) agaist a Macedonian epic army... and it happened as the thousands of phalanx pikemen and lancers coming as reinforcement (the main army I attcked was only one unit of militia hoplites, 23 other units came as reionforcements) and they were just overloaded on my right flank due to their 'reinforcement positioning'. That kinda sucked...

[bfm]

hello all,

i did my funky things with my game, deciding to take up new cities with an all-mercenary army. whereas it worked for a while, and was fun while it lasted, my territory was just wayyy too big for this to be effective for the long run. i also took the rather brilliant decision of replacing my garrisons with real, powerful troops (praetorian cohorts and legionary cavalry anyone) instead of town watch! hmm, why exactly did i take that decision, you ask? because at one point town watch didn't seem exactly 'realistic' to me. i decided that the game had abstracted internal security and as such 'realistically' started garrisoning uber troops in cities!

Anyway, I am pretty sure I can recover... and I wanna play proper and gamey this time. Town watch garrisons, massive armies. Bring it on!

[Empirate]

Strange as it may sound, Seamus, but you might try patching your game. In 1.5 cavalry is a lot less powerful than in 1.0. Of course, it's still very very strong, and playing on VH won't make the task easier... Mac Lancers can really be a pain in the behind. Try luring them around and apart using light missile cav. These can't stand up to Lancers in melee, but they can keep them away from the main engagement. When they return later, they're a little tired and sorely outnumbered. Against all or mostly cav armies this would still be difficult, so use the terrain to your advantage. Deploy high up, use missiles to best effect (Lancers can kill quickly but also die quickly), or best yet, use forests (if any are available) and bridges (of which there are none in Greece... oh well).
Best of luck to you!

Just remembered: If you're playing 1.0, try bribing the suckers into nonexistence. Shouldn't be too expensive.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Strange as it may sound, Seamus, but you might try patching your game. In 1.5 cavalry is a lot less powerful than in 1.0. Of course, it's still very very strong, and playing on VH won't make the task easier... Mac Lancers can really be a pain in the behind. Try luring them around and apart using light missile cav. These can't stand up to Lancers in melee, but they can keep them away from the main engagement. When they return later, they're a little tired and sorely outnumbered. Against all or mostly cav armies this would still be difficult, so use the terrain to your advantage. Deploy high up, use missiles to best effect (Lancers can kill quickly but also die quickly), or best yet, use forests (if any are available) and bridges (of which there are none in Greece... oh well).
Best of luck to you!

Just remembered: If you're playing 1.0, try bribing the suckers into nonexistence. Shouldn't be too expensive.

I will, before too long. Swore I'd play the original til bored, and I've played a goodly number of the original vanilla games since purchase, so it's getting close to time. Don't have BI yet either.

I'll try luring with cavax and see what that nets me.

[IRONxMortlock]

As someone new to the Total War games firstly let me say that I'm glad I've stumbled upon this community. I was originally drawn here by FBE's brilliant guide but I've since read through some of the wealth of inform oration in these forums and I have found loads of handy tips and hints.

Groveling done ~;), I'd like to ask you for some advice on my first and current campaign.

The year is 235BC, vanilla 1.0 med/med. I've taken all of Greece, Macedon, and Turkey as well as large chunks in mainland Europe to the north. My concern is the senate. They have been getting rather snotty of late. Missions no longer offer any reward. Instead they offer the "reward" of avoiding financial audit or the senate's displeasure should I complete them. I've noticed the Scipii has massed two large stacks on the boarder of Croton and although I have strong armies, these armies are all many turns away from getting back to defend my heartland or threaten the other Roman factions.

Do you think civil war is imminent and should I start sending my most powerful generals and armies back to my relatively undefended home regions (Italy and Greece) to prepare for it? Or perhaps I have quite a few more turns to go before that point? I really would rather keep expanding right now while I've got some good momentum.

What would some of you RTW veterans do in this situation?

Thanks for you help,

M

[Empirate]

Welcome to the Org!:2thumbsup:

I guess you're not far from civil war anymore; depends on your standing with the Senate and the People. Maybe they don't like you because you never did any missions assigned to you. And maybe they don't like you because you've been too successful and the People love you too much. In any case, once they offer you missions in which the "reward" is a negative like "X won't happen", you're bound for war rather sooner than later. They may also order your faction leader to committ "honorable suicide". If you agree, this will keep them off your back for a short while, but don't count on keeps. If you don't agree, it's instant civil war. The Senate usually lets the other Roman factions handle the dirty business of actual fighting, but as you say, there're already some armies on your borders. Better prepare some troops to stop them from sacking your home provinces once the MARLBORO ULTRA LIGHTS 100s hits the fan.
Having a run elsewhere is nice, but conquering Italy means getting a lot of provinces very quickly, and having some very interesting fights against armies around as powerful as your own. So: definitely prepare for war in Italy. Oh, and protect your fleets, try to sink the Scipii ones. Their largest armies are usually in northern Africa, so stop them in transit!

[Andres]

Welcome ~:wave:

Civil war certainly is at hand. If you'r playing vanilla 1.0, you can bribe those Scipii armies with one of your diplomats (I assume you have a lot of cash by now). Or bribe the big SPQR stack. It are Roman troops, so they'll come on you side, giving you extra armies.

Have fun, soon to be Imperator.:bow:

[Roman_Man#3]

hey, started a brutti campaign, m/m.

started with a 3 pronged attack. one army at appolonia, 1 to thermon, and 1 to sparta. i was sent to take halicarnassus by the senate, so i took it. then went after athens. ordered to take rhodes, hopped to halicarnnassus and about to make another jump to rhodes. with mercs hired on rhodes, ill take crete, then solidify my greek peninsula.

[IRONxMortlock]

Empirate and AndrestheCunning, thank you both for your advice.

I am only two from the top of the chart for popularity among the people and even though I just completed another mission for the senate in the last turn, my popularity has plunged to two from the bottom with them. As per your advice I have started to my main armies back towards home for what is probably the inevitable civil war.

My military is huge and it's costing a fortune to maintain. I can build whatever I like during a turn and still make a profit but when I start training more troops I lose cash and probably would continue to do so with the increased maintenance of an even larger military. The Marius reforms occurred during the last turn and I'd like to have a couple of stacks of modern troops.

The problem is I don't think I can afford to maintain these two new stacks as well as maintain my current forces. Should I start disbanding obsolete units as I produce the new ones or would it be wiser to break the old units into smaller "attackable" bands and use them to cause maximum causalities and fight to their death?

Also, regarding the new troops that are now available to me since the marius reforms - in terms of melee infantry I now have "early legionary cohorts" and "auxillia". The legions seem like a basic upgrade to hastii/principi style of infantry. The auxillia however are something new. They don't seem as versatile as the legion. Are they worth recruiting? If so, what's the best way to use these new troops?

Thanks again for you help,

M

[Roman_Man#3]

im not to sure about this, but auxilia are sort of like triarii. they have a bonus against cavalry, cood discipline, attack and what not. they are a lot cheaper.they are good troops, and i use them.

hope it helps.

[Empirate]

Post-Marius units:

Auxiliary troops are basic spearmen, quite solid (more solid than any other spearmen short of Phalanx, that is). I don't use them much except for flank protection. Early Legionary Cohorts can stop a cavalry charge almost as well and are more versatile, but be careful against the heavier sorts of cav.

Early Legionary Cohort are your basic Principes plus some more armor and a little better at attacking. They seem to hold together better, too. Use them like you would Principes. Actually, some of your old Principes or even Hastati might be up to par with ELC because they already have some experience under their belt.

Legionary Cohorts are basically the same, but much, MUCH more durable and powerful. These guys are excellent, I use them all I can. As long as they're not flanked by heavy cav, or take a Phalanx unit head on, they will survive most anything. Try to match them against the most powerful melee infantry your enemy has. They'll take their time, but they'll win. This obviously doesn't apply to their like...

Pretorian Cohorts have strange building reqs: They can be built with a sufficiently large Palace (second to last, iirc). These are even more powerful versions of Legionary troops, in that they have still a little more durability. They take two turns to recruit, though. I don't build them much because of this except in large cities in which I don't have barracks (unlikely...).

Urban Cohorts are the crème de la crème of roman armies. They're war gods, but take quite a buildup (highest level barracks, two turns to train). You don't see them often. If you do, swamp them. As they're not that much better than Pretorians or even plain Legionary Cohorts, the buildup isn't really worth it. They still can't take Spartans head on...

Light Auxiliary troops are almost identical to Velites, except they have good stamina. For what it's worth... I don't find I need even more javelins when I can have a full army of Pilum-equipped Legionnaires. Too plain for my taste in the later game.

Auxiliary Archers are excellent! They have long range (same as Cretans) and pack a lot of punch. Although they have chainmail, don't send them into melee. They're better than Cretans on defense, but shoot a little bit less awesome. Still, a very very good unit.

Auxiliary Cavalry is a bit hard to use, but can really perform phantastically if you take a little care. They're like Numidians: great speed, javelins, weak melee (but of course their stats are better than Numidians'). They're mainly for disrupting enemy formations, and for running down routers. Don't expect them to inflict much damage with their javelins. Still, they fill a role the roman armies had no real candidate for until now. I like them.

Roman Cavalry is solid if uninteresting medium cav. Much more durable than Equites! You'll use them a lot, if only because you don't have better. As with all cav, charge charge charge.

Legionary Cavalry are very powerful, almost measuring up to Cataphracts. Use them all you can. They have a powerful charge and a very good defense, so you don't have to worry about them too much.

Pretorian Cavalry really is a little ridiculous. Why do the Romans get so much powerful cav? These are even better than Legionary Cavalry. They'll survive most anything cavalry CAN survive (meaning everything short of Scythed Chariots and Phalanx walls). Very expensive, though, you might want to make do with Legionary Cavalry because of this. They get the job done just as well.

That's about it. If I forgot anything, please feel free to expand on this!

[leoforce]

Hi, quite new here but this is some of my tips i can share.

1) the temples of brutii give good bonuses, also being the first roman faction to be able to train gladiators.

2) Crash Apollonia at turn 1, muster all troops available. Can hire mecernaries if u think need.

3) Focus is primarily greece, ur best chance in winning is attacking their hoplites at their flanks, skirmish them frequently.

4) A foothold in greece would give good access to better units. Take one or even better two of the sicilian cites. Sack Carthage even though if it is not ur job. It will be one big factory to churn out units.

5) Roman but hiring merceneries is a must. Cretan Archers, hoplites and rhodian slingers are ur aim. Cretan Archers and rhodian Slingers give support to the skirmish force. Hoplites to poke away calvary charges.

Oh missed out the city, Kydonia. Island of Crete. Sack that place, it will be one of the most busiest sea trade in the East Medditerrian.

[gmjapan]

@IRONx. Use your now "outdated" troops as much as you can! Since you cant retrain them anymore you wont be slowed down by refits when you win battles or capture cities. Simply combine units to replace losses and press onward. This will allow you to maintain a high level of offensive pressure on your enemy (fellow Romans by the sounds of it) while you start to build new unit armies. By the time your "old" armies become depleted your new armies should be appearing right behind them...

They can still fight just as good as they could before and the AI wont have a lot of new units if the Reforms just occurred. If you disband them you save upkeep but that shouldnt be an issue for Brutii. If you keep them you have a significant fighting force at your command that is 100% disposable.

[IRONxMortlock]

Thanks for the replies folks.

Well, things worked out for the best. I got a message saying that the people wouldn't mind if I attempted to take over Rome so I figured it's always best to have the initiative and moved two full stacks back to Italy and moved on Rome by surprise. They only had a few units defending and went down quick. Audit that you senate bitches!

I had restricted the Julii to provinces only in northern Italy so I managed to sandwich them and with the help of some well placed bribes, eliminate their faction a few turns later.

The Scipii are proving rather more difficult. They have some large stacks of quality troops and have done a good job of expanding across northern Africa. I have now removed them their presence from Italy, including Sicily but just when I thought things were in control, the back stabbing Egyptians violated our long standing alliance and attacked my cities in the East.

I now have the former Greek cities and most cities in Italy cranking out high quality troops and as you suggested gmjapan, I have all but used up my antiquated troops in battle. The Egyptians seem to have run out of steam and I’m a few turns from getting some serious reinforcements to the area after which I expect their empire to unravel. I have had a lot of success bribing away their armies. In battle I find the Egyptians to be extremely aggressive but often foolishly follow retreating troops into my front lines and we all know how effective Roman infantry is in that situation. They hold and keep them pinned while archers pound them and the cav hits their rear. Chariots gave me a bit of trouble at first but flaming arrows mess them up badly as do peltasts and velities with skirmish mode off (if you don’t mind taking some casualties).

Anyway, I think this campaign is all but wrapped up now, just another 9 provinces and it’s mine. Thanks again for the help everyone. I’ve had a great time and I’m looking forward to playing with some of the other factions once my work is done with the Brutii. If anyone has any questions about how I ran my campaign then please don’t hesitate to ask.

M

[aWisler]

is it just me or are the brutii rediculously easy? not only having roman units but being able to easily take greece and become an economic power house very quickly is so much easier than the julii where gaul isnt the most profitable of places.

in my brutii campaign my two home cities were making 3000+ per turn within 15 years. athens is currently my new capital as it is the central of my empire now, but it makes 4300 or so per turn, with most of the rest of the greek cities around 1000-2000 per turn. i have low taxes in almost all of the settlements along with most of them almost at 24000 population.

its around 215BC and the marius reforms have started. the greeks and macedonians are gone, the dacians have 1 more territory about to be sieged, the thracians have 2 more which will also be sieged soon, and im taking over two cities that rebelled in sythia. i plan to finish off sythias other 3 territores as it wont be too hard. the seleucids are also gone i think, and after i finish off the rest of the area above greece, i am debating as to wether or not go after egypt or germania/gaul.

any suggestions on which route to go?

BTW-im currently making about 35000 per turn. every single settlement possible is full que with buildings and units and ive bought all possible mercenaries yet i still have about 550,000

[Roman_Man#3]

awisler: it really depends on what you want. if you take on the barbarians, it is a slightly easier fight, you get to cut off the area where the julii will no doubt expand into if left alive, but it is less profiable. egypt on the other hand, is more profitable, here you can cut off the scipii, but the fight will be a bit harder. IMHO, i would divert most of my forces to egypt, but send some small armies of good troops into the north to harass them, and with a good enough flow of small armies, you could take a few cities. But i would suggest egypt for the long run profits.

[aWisler]

yea thanks for the help, i think ill go with egypt, i dont really need the profit but i have never actually fully destroyed the egyptians, i tend to finish my julii/scipii campaigns by the time i get alexandria.

[Empirate]

is it just me or are the brutii rediculously easy? not only having roman units but being able to easily take greece and become an economic power house very quickly is so much easier than the julii where gaul isnt the most profitable of places.

I don't think roman units alone are such a great advantage in R:TW. Only post-Marian roman cavalry really stands out. The infantry is all within the limits of what can be beaten. Phalanx armies can beat the Romans in an infantry to infantry matchup, and most other factions have a trick or two up their sleeve roman infantry alone cannot counter, be it cavalry, missile, or special troops like Elephants or Chariots. Roman cavalry units are something to look out for, though. They are just too strong, which is ahistorical and also detracts from gameplay. In conjunction with the admittedly very good roman infantry they're unstoppable. So what makes the roman military powerful is the combination of very good infantry (which still can be beaten; historically correct) with some of the best cavalry in the game (which is very hard to beat; historically faulty). On top of that, they get long-range archers (which is just plain ridiculous historically) and the widest variety of siege engines (which makes a lot of sense historically).
The Romans are rigged to have an unbeatable military if they use a lot of cavalry, but also to rely heavily on infantry if used by the AI. When playing Romans, using their über-cavalry seems very very cheap to me. Not using it heavily makes for more interesting challenges, as the infantry units are versatile and tough, but not all-powerful.
In pre-Marian times, the roman military actually doesn't stand up to a well-formed Macedonian, Seleucid or Carthaginian force. Even barbarians like the Gauls can get their elite units quite quickly. If the AI used Phalanx armies better, conquest of Greece and the Balkans would be very hard indeed when playing the Bruti, making them the hardest roman faction, in spite of their fantastic temple options.

[GreatEmperor]

Well I don't think Phalanx armies could be Roman Infantry in a infantry vs. infantry mode. In Phalanx mode they are far too slow so it's easy to flank them. While out Phalanx mode they are very vulnerable for the Pila of the Romans

[Empirate]

Depends on how you keep the Phalanx army together. It's not necessary to present any flanks...
As for the pila, they will cause a few casualties, but what after that? The romans can't pass the spear wall, and will rout quickly. It worked when I had the Phalanx, so why shouldn't it work when a (hypothetical, Phalanx-savvy) AI controlled it? Of course Phalanx units are not very mobile, but they present a fantastic way of shaping the battlefield to their commander: A semi-mobile obstacle, one side of which can kill. Everything else must be taken care of by others: missile troops and cavalry.

[Motep]

you have to make a complete circle with your men...or at least a half circle. keep any non phalanx (such as mercs) defending your exposed flanks. Keep all archers behind your phalnx, but stop them from firing as the enemy gets to close. Keep your cavalry (if you have any) behind them, and send them out to destroy the enemy when they are routing. THE ultimate way to kill romans...NEVER AUTO-RESOLVE!!!!(or else the romans are sure to win.

[GreatEmperor]

Well that's a way if you're defending with the phalanx when it's infantry vs infantry but if you're attacking you'll have a big problem. When fighting against AI Phalanx I always split my troops in 3 so it's easier to see what all the phalanxes are going to do. If there are woods I use them as cover to flank them since they are invisible when hiding.

[stranganath]

In my Brutii campaign, I discovered a couple of new things that are extremely profitable.

When the campaign starts ignore the senate mission (you have 10 turns to do it) and take your entire army to Athens (Athens is controlled by Rebels at the begining of the campaign).

You need to seige Athens within 3 turns or the macedonian army will beat you to it and they will get Athens.

I managed to get control of Athens in the 4th turn (lay siege in 3rd). Athens provides significant financial boost to the economy.

Now you can get back to taking over apolliana.

Another nice trick is to place a diplomat near carthage.
When ever the scipii are seiging lilybaum propose an ailliance with carthage (always refuse their 1st offer and they will come back with a bigger one) and usually you can get around 6000 - 9000 dinirii. This causes all the other roman factions to declare ceasefire with carthage (which is why they pay you so much for an alliance).
Ofcourse scipii will try to take lilybaum again in a couple of turns so you can repeat the same.

I managed to repeat this about 7-8 times every 2 turns before carthage started refusing alliances.

Hope this helps.

[GreatEmperor]

Hmm interesting strategy. I'll try it. Thanks

[Seamus Fermanagh]

As an alternate to that:

I took my Brutes to Appolonia, slowly, via Salona, one to Syracuse, and also sent another force to Kydonia.

Ended up taking App about turn 8. Dip got an alliance with Mac.

Kydonia went on turn 7, and just after that point I was told to take Pergamum.

So the Kydonia force was sent to Pergamum via Halicarnassus and Rhodes. Just made it in 10 turns with lots of mercs to help.

My syracuse siegers "helped" the Scips, but then initiated the assault and kept the city.

My Greek islands force acquired Crete, Rhodes, Hali, and Pergamum (and treaties with Pontus, Egypt and the Seluecids to have time to rebuild.

My Appolonia force took Salona, Appy, and after some hard field battles got Thermon as well.

End result: ONLY Sparta remained to the greeks by 259BC. Picked it up later.

[Roman_Man#3]

here is a current brutii campaign.i assaulted corinth, took it. but then the macedons came back with 2 full stacks. one under 2 generals assaulted athens.
https://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7572/0058np2.jpg

a reserve of 6 or seven cavalry rushed to the gate, hoping to break my hoplites and take the city. my merc hoplites were able to withstand their assault, and a pool of dead horses littered the gate way.
[IMG]https://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2063/0059wz3.jpg

the results, one of their two full stacks vanquished, with both of the generals commanding it dead.
https://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5897/0060ev9.jpg

after destroying the last full stack, their military forces are but a shadow of what they used to be.
https://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9241/0062zr2.jpg

i took larissa, but it had the plague. i lost my best general to the plague, but now my best manager who was like a brother to dear vibius brutus has gone on a rampage through macedon, earning the nickname cassius the wrathful.
DEATH TO THE INSOLENT!!!!!!!

(sry by the large post, the pics are rather large.)

[Comrade Alexeo]

I don't think roman units alone are such a great advantage in R:TW. Only post-Marian roman cavalry really stands out. The infantry is all within the limits of what can be beaten. Phalanx armies can beat the Romans in an infantry to infantry matchup, and most other factions have a trick or two up their sleeve roman infantry alone cannot counter, be it cavalry, missile, or special troops like Elephants or Chariots. Roman cavalry units are something to look out for, though. They are just too strong, which is ahistorical and also detracts from gameplay. In conjunction with the admittedly very good roman infantry they're unstoppable. So what makes the roman military powerful is the combination of very good infantry (which still can be beaten; historically correct) with some of the best cavalry in the game (which is very hard to beat; historically faulty). On top of that, they get long-range archers (which is just plain ridiculous historically) and the widest variety of siege engines (which makes a lot of sense historically).
The Romans are rigged to have an unbeatable military if they use a lot of cavalry, but also to rely heavily on infantry if used by the AI. When playing Romans, using their über-cavalry seems very very cheap to me. Not using it heavily makes for more interesting challenges, as the infantry units are versatile and tough, but not all-powerful.
In pre-Marian times, the roman military actually doesn't stand up to a well-formed Macedonian, Seleucid or Carthaginian force. Even barbarians like the Gauls can get their elite units quite quickly. If the AI used Phalanx armies better, conquest of Greece and the Balkans would be very hard indeed when playing the Bruti, making them the hardest roman faction, in spite of their fantastic temple options.

Actually the problem isn't so much that the Romans are exceptionally powerful as the other factions are exceptionally weak.

It is not particularly incorrect for the Romans to have a decent post-Marian cavalry force, because historically the Romans recruited cavalry in auxiliary alae (wings) from allied tribes known to have good horsemen; for example, the Alans. Roman Cavalry are about where they should be in turns of power, although admittedly they shouldn't really be called "Roman Cavalry", but something like "Roman Allied Cavalry" at least. Legionary Cavalry is not correct, but I've seen them so rarely that I don't usually care. Praetorian Cavalry are also correct; the problem comes the ability to recruit them everywhere. Try removing Legionary Cavalry and making Praetorian Cavalry only recruitable in Rome, and then complain to me about Roman cavalry prowess :2thumbsup:

The Romans having good archers is also not incorrect. Like cavalry, auxiliary archers came from groups known to be good with a bow; in the case of archers, many came from Syria, and they were very good at their job.

The problems arise from elsewhere. Companions in particular and Macedonian Cavalry are too weak because the charge stats are messed up; Gothic Cavalry and Sacred Band Cavalry are almost never seen because the Germans and Carthaginians respectively are usually beaten before they can be recruited; I've rarely encountered Cataphracts because the only factions that can use them are weak and easily knocked out early in the game by Egypt :egypt: , meaning that even if the factions survive they usually lack the infrastructure...

The only factions that realistically can seriously contend with Roman cavalry units in a campaign game are Scythia and Egypt :egypt: (I'm not counting Britain's chariots). As the former is usually just a nuisance and not a full military target, and Egypt :egypt: is absurdly imbalanced and tends to use chariots anyway...

The same thing applies to archers: Eastern Archers should be far and away the best archers in the game, or at least way up there; the fact that they're not even contenders makes their host factions too weak; Greek Archers at least are supposed to suck; Cretan Archers are too rare to make any real difference; Gaul and Germany, who have the implausibly powerful Forester Warbands and Chosen Archers respectively, are invariably crushed before these units can make any impression on the battlefield (Chosen Archers in particular are vastly underrated); Scythia's archers are but a nuisance...

This leaves, once again, Egypt :egypt: , with its exceptionally powerful but historically-incorrect (both in terms of the timeframe and because Egypt's military was never something to really brag about) Pharoah's Archers, as the only real challengers to Auxiliary Archers. Indeed, Egypt :egypt: as a whole is generally the only faction that can ever really can contend with Rome in a campaign, especially in the endgame.

The Roman factions are actually probably the most accurate ones, believe it or not (Arcani and Gladiators, who are rare anyway, notwithstanding) - at least in terms of army structure. They have the most cost-effective heavy infantry, very good archers, and (if we can ignore rare Legionary Cavalry and Praetorian Cavalry) reasonably effective cavalry. It's mostly everybody else who's screwed up :laugh4:

[GreatEmperor]

Well they didn't only use allied cavalry but they had their own. Only the Equites (knightlike romans) were able to buy themselves a horse and good armor and weapons. They had their own cavalry but they are very rare and they fought mostly with infantry units

[Caius]

I need help.
Carthage is a head hurt (I'm hoping it is right writed).Always you can have problems, for example this.
Carthage is giving me red income, very red income.And its always a slave place, which means Carthage sooer or later will be rebel.
I dont see any ways of killing the ****** rebels or giving a good income.
What can I do?

[Roman_Man#3]

sometimes the only things to do is up taxes to the max, let it rebel, and then retake and slaughter the population.


and by the way, if i know what your talking about, its head ache not head hurt.

[vols21]

I had a different start to the game, but it all worked out in the end. My senate mission sent me to Gaul (Patvium) instead of toward Carthage (since the Scip's stormed them early and took it all). I sailed an army north but didn't realize there were two more gaul armies hiding outside the city - and as a result, we got spanked. I had the remains of this disgraced army stop to fight a rebel force spotted on their return trip, and they barely beat them down - so they general saved a little face (and a trip to the gallows).

I took on the Mac's first with a trading alliance with Greece. Their last city was Athens - which I seiged. They had a full amry of Hopites behind the wall, and I expected a bloodbath. Instead after a few turns (I kept building more troops and sending them over for reinforcements), they simply surrendered without a fight!!

Next, I wiped the Greeks out of Sparta. I had read about their great navy, but when the time came, my navy actually ruled the area and blasted them (only trouble was a fleet of rebels -- who may have beaten the Greeks?).

I had a plaque in Larissa, so I sent a spy from there over to Rhodes (senate asked that I take them next). The Greeks had a full army there, and another sitting outside the city. The chemical warfare worked better than I hoped because their forces vacated the city and it rebelled. I sent one Peasant down and easily won the vacant city. meanwhile, my mainland army hit their only other city - armed with battistas, we did not seige but marched right in. The battistas not only knocked down the gates, they also decimated the Hopites guarding it. it was a very easy battle after that, and the Greeks were gone.

Just like that - who would have thought a simple peasant army would have conquered Rhodes with that massive Greek armored hopite army (two in fact) guarding it??!!!

[IlDuce]

The biggest problem I always seem to have is with the Egyptians. As Brutii I find that a blitzkrieg tactics as described in the first reply works well. Once I've taken the south of Greece I normally have tons of money. I normally use that money to turn the Southern Greek regions into my military production zone. Meaning you can build large armies that trample anything in their path and the quite centralised location and easy access to the Mediterranean means that you can reinforce your more remote armies quite easily and quickly. However, when I first started playing I kept having problems as I'd expand east and then reach the North West part of Egypt where my armies would get bogged down in lengthy wars of attrition. Not good when you consider the fact Egypt has strong armies, great military factories and a fabulous amount of wealth. I found a good way to take down Egypt is with a thorough softening up followed by a quick, sharp, shock. Build a good sized Navy and block the Egyptian ports. This solves the economy problem.

While you are building your navy also produce lots of spies and assassins and gather your veteran spies and assassins and send them to Egypt en masse. Put your spies in every city possible to scope out enemy buildings and seek out large armies. Then just before you assault with your armies use your assassins to sabotage Egyptian military buildings, to damage their ability to reinforce armies. Removing a large part of the attrition problem. If possible use your assassins to take out Generals.

Then deploy 3 or 4 seperate armies in different fleets then send out the fleets to just outside the biggest and most important Egyptian cities. So you can take the provinces all at the same time, if you're lucky. Then deploy the armies to take out the most dangerous provinces and armies. Hopefully you will have soon crippled the backbone of Egypt and the rest is mopping up.

It's a costly and complicated tactic but when you consider the benefits of taking over Egypt I think it is definitely worth it.

[Nik00117]

Here is my guide to the Bruiti which IMHO is the easiest rome faction for several reasons
1. Some of your most profitable states will be A LONG WAYS AWAY FROMT HE FIGHT when KING LEONIDAS hits teh fan in the civil war. You want your money makers to be safe and sound.
2. The areas in which you conquer will be RICH in cash. You'll be able to field armies unlike no other.
3. Your first few civil war battles will be aganist (in my experience) light juli armies in the north, and strong sicipi armies in the south.

Here are a few key things which I used to dominate my game
Navy, need to control hte seas and be able to move men and supplies without fear of losing them
Always have a back up army on the way, in my egptian campaing I about nearly lost it, had that not entre legion army came in to reinforce me i'd of been pushed back into greece, so many poeple work on their army but never reserve forces.

Keep your upcome cheap, one thing I noticed later on is that keeping any type of $$$ unit in garrison is a waste. High upkeep units should be fighting not relaxing. Garrison duty is for peasants and town watch.

LEt me describe to you my campaign

Within the first turn I marched into greece and began taking the first settlement, I then marched furthur where I encoutered a macedian army. It wouldn't move so I attacked it. Then marched for Corinth, Athens, and Sparta first Corinth and Sparta, I fortied up that portion as the Macedians and greeks sent army after army to attack me there. I then marched into Athens. After this I begna my march up into larasia and so forth. Took marcedian, and Byztiuam, then took Bylzaroa.

Now I had to cross that sea, so I moved in my navies which I was building up in Italy and took 2 full armies straight upon Perguam. Which was prob my hardest fought battle. After this I knew one thing, if I left rhodes to be it'd be harder to take every turn (rhodes is always my hardest fight with greece)

So I move in 2 armies into RHodies I get ambushed, and haveli ke 4 massive battles on this small little island. (I'm actually shocked that the waters around it didn't turn red) I lost a total of about 3k men, greeks lost 7k holding it and I won it over.

Now at this point I intend on doing a 2 prong attack to gain more land on this region. So I begna building up my armies well I go to take the Kydoina (which is a rebel settlement) and then I march upon Nicomedia, and Hallicarnassus.

Both are oldly enough hard fought battles so I then bunker up, I place a fort on the Hallicarnassus bridge to hold it and then March north to gain a few more terrioistes in order to furthur fuel my war machine (also the senate wanted me to go there, and it'd be a good way to block off the Juli from advacing.Porrolissum, Camp Lazyges Campus Scythii, and stop.

Move back down south to contiue my advance for i've collected 4 armies in which I can march upon the rest of the cities here. My first and most difficult goal is take Sardis which is heavly foritied by the Pathria, and then after htat I contiue east ward. Ancyra, Tarsus, Mazaka, Sinope, then a road block at Tarsus

My armies stand on my border, Egptian armys stand on their border. WE fight a small battle and I win, egptian loses nothing and withdraws to the bridge of Antioch. Which will become one of my most epic battles and hardest fought as well. I of course pursue into this region and we fight 3 bridge battles for control.

I lose my first one, luckily it was a blunder on my part and I lost very little 2nd i win just barely and 3rd I carsh the egptians march into Antioch. I take it and here is my foothold in the middle east.

I hyad expected the Egptians to prove a hard foe so I had began building legions across my empire and bringing them into Egptian to assit me. At this point I had 2 navies bring in 2 full fresh boats of recuirts, one which took Salamis which was a nice victory. I then moved and got ready for battles with Egptian, I took a few turns to gather my forces and so forth.

I marched upon Damascus, and Sidon took them both. Then moved onto Bostra, and Petra. Came back and took on Palmyra.

At this time senate missions in the north. So I take a few cities up there to please the senate by taking Vicus Venedae and Chersesos, Tanais which pleases the seante so I move back to the middle east. I them move to take Hatra, Selecuia, Susa, and Dumatha.

After this I stop here and move a bit more to the west and take on Jersulam which was the turning part of the egptians (3 famlies members and 4 armies bite the dust her) I lsot very little. I then march for Memphis, Alexndra, and double back to Thebes. I then go for Siwa, and buy Cyrene. AT this point I began building army for rome.

I then went back to the far east and began marching into and taking the follow cities Araskia, and Phrassapa. After taking those cities (had to build up armies) so I had time to garrison 7 fielded armies for my advance on the scipi.

My first battle along the raod from Cyrene to Magna, in which I find 2 scipi armies (one containing their faction leader) sitting on the road. I with my 7 legions figure it best to take out such a critical faimly leader early on.

So I slaughter them, yes I mean slaughter when you fight with 8,000 men aganist 1,500 and your 8,000 men hav ebeen through hell nad back marching from greece to turky to the middle east and down trhough afria your men have lots of experience and upgrades. Then well the civil war starts.

However I had planned for it long in advance.

Early on I had relieazed that to do this civil war as quickly as possible i'd have to assault on 2 fronts, and fortiy one front.

I had been building up highly trained armies in Italy and garrisoin them in the field blocking choke points with forts, and had a legion to pound back the Juli a bit.

Either way I marched upon Lepcis Magna. I took this city with a huge fuse. My army of 8k was down to 7k (heavly loses considering I have to take rome with it)

Then my Computer crashed... Installed a 8800GTS 640 MB GPU and it blue up the caps on my mobo because of the energy surge.

So thats where I am at now.

But so far I did look at the stats for my empire. Lets just say I own the most regions (I own 35 or so) well the closet thing is the Juli at 30. And you know if you played as the Juli 30 isn't that much. My regions are all econmic power houses i'm bringing in more money then I can imagine. I'm upkeeping 12 fully fielded armies, most of hwich are legionares.

But here is my end game plan for the Rome, Scipi will die first Juli will be withered away in teh north. Next I will march for Thapsus, Carthage. Then I will want to take out all of sliciy and take Lilybaeum, Syracus and with the help of my HIGHLY Trained army in Itialy I will take Messance.

After this I will group up 6 legions, and march through the remaining bit of Scipi which by this point will be crawling. AT the same time I must contend with the Julia and keep conquering eastern ward. I intend on taking Themiskyra which is the Bruiti most eastern front. At the same time I march into Salona, Segestica, and Aquiincum to push them furthur back.

In my scipi campaign I will need to take the follow cities and i intend on doing it in this order Caralis, Cirtra, Tingi, Cordua, Dimmidi, and there final death spot, Nepte. THen uton to Rome. AT this point my goal is to have 9 fieled armies for this assault First I will take Capua, and then Rome. At this point I will cut the Juli in half just like a cake. I will march north and take Patavium, Iuvavum, Mogontiacum, Damme, and then Bordesholm.

On my eastern front I ntend on having everything conquered.

At this point the Julia will be weak and nimble and cut in half. I will march upon their eastern cities first take them out there and then head west.

My actual goal is to own every city that their is. As in TOTAL DOMINATION. I figure towards the end it will go very fast.

My battle tactics are good, I hear some complaining about Phalanxies, well I got a thing or two to say about that. They are slow you are fast you are also strong and can fight on any flank they can't. I can turn a legion around to face a flanking move in seconds a phalax can't. In battle my legionares can run without giving up their protection and fighting ability, phalxies can't.

Once you break a phalax its gone.

The hardest enemy IMHO is the rome. Legions are simply pains

[Incontineta Buttox]

Update for my Brutii imperial campaign - H/M difficulty. Huge unit size.
It's now winter 244BC.

I hold Croton, Tarentum, Appolonia, Thermon, Corinth, Sparta, and Athens. In my last turn, my best and most experienced army, led by my best general assaulted and captured Larissa.

I have been having an interesting "disagreement" with Dacia over possesion of Salona. I captured it from rebels a long time ago, but in 248BC a full-stack Dacian army assaulted and took Salona, which was very lightly defended by 2 town guard and a family member. In 246BC a small relief army recaptured Salona again for the Brutii. I thought that was the end of the matter, and sent half the troops back to Thermon to retrain. Then in the last turn, the Dacian king turned up with another full-stack army and a second half-stack army and assaulted Salona again. The garrision this time consisted of 4 understrength principes, 2 cavalry auxillia, and a family member. The defenders put up a good fight, killing over 1000 of the attackers, but a mistake by the defending general getting himself stupidly killed ended any hope of holding the town. So Salona is back in Dacian control.

At the time I was at war with Macedon, Greek Cities, and Dacia. I have arranged a ceasefire with the Greek Cities, and Dacia while I concentrate on Macedon. I will leave vengeance on Dacia until later.

The senate has ordered my to take Kydonia, which suits me, I have an army ready to assault next turn. the town is lightly garrisoned and has no wall, so it should be a cakewalk.

The economy is good. The only problems I have is a lack of family members, as 4 have fallen in battle in the last 3 years, and my faction leader is rather elderly. I can't seem to be able to bribe anyone either. Also, the pirate fleets are causing me problems as they are very large and numerous.

I plan to finish of Macedonia, and conquer the balkans up to the Danube river and consolidate. then head into Asia minor.

Any tips or advice always appreciated.

P.S. I have come to the conclusion that cavalry auxilia suck! Anyone else disagree?

[Stuperman]

Cav auxilia don't suck, they are just not very useful as cav....LOL

they are good for harassing the enemy, going after skirmishers/routers. With the Cambrainic circle (or whatever it's called) they are very hard to hit and deal a surprising amount of damage.

They do suck when defending a settlement, as they need room to retreat.

Only use them to engage infintry if you think that thier charge will start a chain rout, i.e. if the enemy's moral is low, the shock of the charge will often be the deciding factor.

they are great for chasing down routing cav as they can throw javlins and kill them, even if they don;t catch the routing cav.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

They do suck when defending a settlement, as they need room to retreat.

They're fast, and skirmish backwards.

Get them outside the walls and get an enemy to chase you around your walls...in front of the towers. :evilgrin:


Also, since they're fast, they're a great unit for chasing after the routing enemy general -- and that's one less family member to try again later.:yes:

[Ozzman1O1]

Update for my Brutii imperial campaign - H/M difficulty. Huge unit size.
It's now winter 244BC.

I hold Croton, Tarentum, Appolonia, Thermon, Corinth, Sparta, and Athens. In my last turn, my best and most experienced army, led by my best general assaulted and captured Larissa.

I have been having an interesting "disagreement" with Dacia over possesion of Salona. I captured it from rebels a long time ago, but in 248BC a full-stack Dacian army assaulted and took Salona, which was very lightly defended by 2 town guard and a family member. In 246BC a small relief army recaptured Salona again for the Brutii. I thought that was the end of the matter, and sent half the troops back to Thermon to retrain. Then in the last turn, the Dacian king turned up with another full-stack army and a second half-stack army and assaulted Salona again. The garrision this time consisted of 4 understrength principes, 2 cavalry auxillia, and a family member. The defenders put up a good fight, killing over 1000 of the attackers, but a mistake by the defending general getting himself stupidly killed ended any hope of holding the town. So Salona is back in Dacian control.

At the time I was at war with Macedon, Greek Cities, and Dacia. I have arranged a ceasefire with the Greek Cities, and Dacia while I concentrate on Macedon. I will leave vengeance on Dacia until later.

The senate has ordered my to take Kydonia, which suits me, I have an army ready to assault next turn. the town is lightly garrisoned and has no wall, so it should be a cakewalk.

The economy is good. The only problems I have is a lack of family members, as 4 have fallen in battle in the last 3 years, and my faction leader is rather elderly. I can't seem to be able to bribe anyone either. Also, the pirate fleets are causing me problems as they are very large and numerous.

I plan to finish of Macedonia, and conquer the balkans up to the Danube river and consolidate. then head into Asia minor.

Any tips or advice always appreciated.

P.S. I have come to the conclusion that cavalry auxilia suck! Anyone else disagree?
you should take the cities the senate whants you to,but when you invade grease....wich looks like a foot,napoelean whonce said,you should attack it from the bottom (the toes,sparta),like crawling up a girls ankle.:san_rolleyes: :download:

[Quintus.JC]

The Brutii and the Scipii have an unfair adavantage over the Julii. Greek, Macedonian and Punic lands are much more profitable than Gallic farmlands, aside from that. they also have better temple than the Julii. Brutii can build temple to Mars, which cracks exprinenced troops even before they fought and battle, temple to Mercury increase trade, especially to sea trade and cities with mines. Temple to Juno decrease squlor as well as giving happiness.
Temple to Vulcan upgrades weapons while Temple to Neptune let the Scipii build tougher ships than the normal ones. I call this unfair!

[Guildenstern]

The Brutii and the Scipii have an unfair adavantage over the Julii. Greek, Macedonian and Punic lands are much more profitable than Gallic farmlands
I don't think so. The Julii short campaign is actually pretty easy. The Gauls are numerous but much weaker than Roman legions, on a man to man basis.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The Brutii and the Scipii have an unfair adavantage over the Julii. Greek, Macedonian and Punic lands are much more profitable than Gallic farmlands, aside from that. they also have better temple than the Julii. Brutii can build temple to Mars, which cracks exprinenced troops even before they fought and battle, temple to Mercury increase trade, especially to sea trade and cities with mines. Temple to Juno decrease squlor as well as giving happiness.
Temple to Vulcan upgrades weapons while Temple to Neptune let the Scipii build tougher ships than the normal ones. I call this unfair!

Who says you have to do what those old women in the Senate tell you?

Take Segesta and then fleet up. You can snag Caralis, Carthage, Syracuse, Crete, Rhodes, Athens, Halicarnassus, Athens, Corinth, & Sparta ahead of your rivals with one good fast-moving strike team. Recruit mercs as you go and forward militia as garrison as you can.

Meanwhile, at home, your core cities slowly build a defensive force and then acquire Medialanum and Patavium. Once you're defending the Alpine passes, you can hold at low cost while your strike team makes you rich.

[Quintus.JC]

Seamus Fermanagh is right. with a fast strike force the Julii is capable of getting ahead of the Brutii and Scipii, but i really dislike their temples, comparing to the advantages the Scipii temple and Brutii temples could bring.

[mrdun]

I don't agree with Brutii lands being better than Julii lands, all Roman factions are the same, the julii get Spain, Brutii Greece and Scipii Sicily/ north africa/ egypt.

Yes, Greece is very rich but you need to fight hoplites and such which can be very nasty, you do not need as much of a military with the Julii plus you get access to mediteranean trade, spanish mines and lots of farmland which with Roman Latifundia can be extremely profitable.

[Iavorios]

The Brutii are maybe the essayist factions to play in RTW, simply because of the temple of Mercuri. By the time i got 20 provinces i start to flow in money until the end of the game, as for the all athers have money problems after you have more than 30-40. Combine that with the roman technology and the temple of Mars, and you not only have the richest economy, but and the strongest army in the game. These guys are the only one ho can actually captutere only central Europe and still prosper finance with big army's. I mean thing about hwo do is the strongest roman every time when you play any eastern or Western Europe faction?

[mrdun]

Yes but with the Julii, you don't need big armies to take out stacks of Gauls. Therefore you save money on upkeep, your generals get better traits and the Gallic lands are not as bad as everyone makes out.

[Quintus.JC]

It's easy to take out Phalanx troops with the age-old flanking move. The greeks do have good early infantry but with the Brutii Thermon and Sparta could be taken in the first 8 turns. The Macedon the same thing. Light lancers and greek cavalry is no match for Equites, plus levy pikemen and militia hoplite will rout at the slighest of danger. not to mention the weak greek genearl bodyguards. after taking the Balkans the Brutii do not need such a big army. 1 full-stack army stationed at Thessalonica to watch out for the northen frontier while the other 2 go else where. build temple of mercury in all key industrial cities, Mars for military production cities and Juno for growing cities. apart from Egypt I think the Brutii probably is the easiest faction to play in RTW.

[Master Young Phoenix]

I'm currently playing a Brutii campaign and indeed, after you've taken the better part of modern day Greece, you're a rich mofo... however at the moment (about 215 BC), my money is dissapearing! :help:
Maybe I built too many farms too...
The people have asked my thrice to march on Rome, but as I'm still at war with the Gypos, I'm doing it slowly. Have about 9 spies in rome at the moment (and even 45% public order it does not rebel!) and about 3,5 stacks in the vicinity. I'm almost ready.
The reforms came at about 230 BC allready, and thanks to the big money of this faction, I didn't have to do much Barrack upgrades to get proper legions.

Early on the Senate gave me mostly usefull missions that were actually quite the things I planned myself... though twice the stupid Scipii prevented me blocking the corinth port with one of their fleets, they actually landed an army at corinth while I was still allied to Macedon and besieged it!
Luckily their siege failed. The Julii also send an army to Greece, which just hang around there. The Battle for Thermon was quite hard though. While I prefer taking towns in field battles, this time the Greeks launched no less than 3 armies at my besieging legion. I tried three times but in the end, the terrain around thermon is terrible for attackers, you'll be in a valley and the enemy will have the High Ground... so I withdrew and defeated the Greeks stack for stack before taking thermon.

After destroying Macedon and Greece, with all the balkans in control I conquered mediolanium and Patavium while a 3d army began the campaign for anatolia. The Gauls were at war with me anyway (due to obliging the senate too often) and the Julii were just loitering! They only got 2 provinces in spain and Palma at the moment.
The Scipii united Sicily under their banner and conquered the carthaginians and numidians. As always, the western africa provinces keep rebelling against their rule.

I tried to stay on friendly terms with Pontus, but they betrayed me right after I took the last seleucid province. I wiped them off the map in a war of vengeance. While I was still at war with them, the senate order me to take jerusalem from the Gypo's. I didn't do it. I needed my Anatolian armies against Pontus and was not quite ready to face the might of the Pharaoh.

while sieging the last two Pontic towns. The Senate asked me to conquer Tarsus. Okay, old b-tards, I did it and the war with Egypt began in earnest... and the second settlement I took was Sidon, again for senate mission. It was good that I did this 'cause they gave me the awsome Decere ship! Who can actually build those? Carthage?

I also went for Memphis with 1,5 stacks of pre-marian troops and soon I'll be conquering the rest of the Pharaoh's lands in Arabia, leaving Dimmidi their only province and a buffer against the Scipii in Africa. I doubt the catamite will leave me alone if I go into the Civil war before that.

at the moment, the People want me to become their dictator while the senate wants me to blockade a port in the Red Sea... I trained a Bireme, only to run into a Pirate fleet of 2 large boats... defeat :no: mission's gonna fail.

For armies I tried to stick to the De Re Militarii, going for a core of:
pre-marian
5 Hastati
3 Principes/3 bronze 1+ silver chevron hastati
2 Triarii/mercenary hoplites
2-3 velites
2 equites
2 auxilia cavalry
extra troops for flexibility or certain bonusses or flanking manouvres.

Marian:
5 Early cohorts
3 cohorts
2 praetroian cohorts
2 auxilia
2-4 cavalry

rest of the slots gets filled with usefull units against the enemy faction

I kept to the three-line tactics and it works very well actually, especially with the first line on fire at will. Combined with an abundance of light auxilia, no chariot can come near my lines and basic infantry and cavalry quickly panic... many a phalanx has been disrupted by hastati pila...

[Quintus.JC]

The people have asked my thrice to march on Rome, but as I'm still at war with the Gypos, I'm doing it slowly. Have about 9 spies in rome at the moment (and even 45% public order it does not rebel!) and about 3,5 stacks in the vicinity. I'm almost ready.

Marian:
5 Early cohorts
3 cohorts
2 praetroian cohorts
2 auxilia
2-4 cavalry



I don't think Rome could rebel no matter how low the public order is.

I have no love for early cohorts. Legionary cohorts are better, takes only 1 turn to train and have the same upkeep. So I only train Legions with no early cohorts. What about some missile troops, they can be handy at times.

[Praetor Rick]

I don't agree with Brutii lands being better than Julii lands, all Roman factions are the same, the julii get Spain, Brutii Greece and Scipii Sicily/ north africa/ egypt.

Yes, Greece is very rich but you need to fight hoplites and such which can be very nasty, you do not need as much of a military with the Julii plus you get access to mediteranean trade, spanish mines and lots of farmland which with Roman Latifundia can be extremely profitable.

I don't think farming is a good way to make money, especially not in remote and unrest-filled regions like Spain. Anything that makes those settlements, which already grow too fast, grow even faster is dangerous.

Simply put, it's hard to beat getting sent to Greece as an initial conquest zone. It's stinking rich, filled with wonders (4 of the 7 wonders are in generally "Brutii" territory), and best of all, close to home. The provinces are tiny, so you get tons of trade with not a lot of marching around. Yeah, Greece and Macedonia are tougher than Gaul, but since they're played by the AI, not that much tougher.

Gaul and Spain aren't worthless, they're just fixer-uppers. That's fine, until you hit 30+ provinces, the Senate hates you, and the Brutii decide to send a dozen full stack armies led by 5+ star generals with lots of experience on a scenic tour of Julii territory. Why do they do that, anyway? I'd kick off the civil war in my Julii game now and trust to luck, skill, and superior strategic depth to save my bacon, but not with the entire Brutii military camped outside my gates. Are they marching off to invade Dacia or Britannia or some such, or is the AI smart enough to know that there's a civil war coming?

[Quintus.JC]

Welcome to the forum Praetor Rick. Excellent first post.:beam:
This happened to me too when I was Julii, The Scipii who has 33 province camped 4 full stack along with lots of mini armies outside my northern Italy territories, blocking my army movement and ruining farming. I tried to tell them to shove it.Without any result. This was one of the time when I tried to expand historically and not aggressively, I had 26 province with Gaul, Spain, Britain and northern Italy under control. Scipii was the obvious stronger power having all the of the Egyptian territory and more. The Brutii expanded from Greece going up into Scythia and Germany. I was waiting for the Scipii to start the civil war but they were too smart for it. I try to offer them land and money. Their popularity with the Senate is almost rock bottom. At the end they did start the civil war. But taken them a long time though. I came to the aid of the Senate and so did the Brutii. But the Brutii was already too powerful and at the end it became a four way fight, with me succeeding of course.

[Praetor Rick]

Welcome to the forum Praetor Rick. Excellent first post.:beam:
This happened to me too when I was Julii, The Scipii who has 33 province camped 4 full stack along with lots of mini armies outside my northern Italy territories, blocking my army movement and ruining farming. I tried to tell them to shove it.Without any result. This was one of the time when I tried to expand historically and not aggressively, I had 26 province with Gaul, Spain, Britain and northern Italy under control. Scipii was the obvious stronger power having all the of the Egyptian territory and more. The Brutii expanded from Greece going up into Scythia and Germany. I was waiting for the Scipii to start the civil war but they were too smart for it. I try to offer them land and money. Their popularity with the Senate is almost rock bottom. At the end they did start the civil war. But taken them a long time though. I came to the aid of the Senate and so did the Brutii. But the Brutii was already too powerful and at the end it became a four way fight, with me succeeding of course.

Well, the Scipii are a non-issue in this game, since all they have is their 2 starting provinces, Thapsus, and Lepcis Magna. The Greek Cities kicked them off of Sicily (and me out of Lilybaeum, courtesy of a Senate mission) and I responded by taking over everything on the island except for Messana, which the Scipii did manage to recapture. I was able to grab Carthage and all of Africa west of Carthage, which appears to have broken the AI, at least as far as the Scipii are concerned. They just have their armies massed on the border with the last 2 Numidian provinces, but don't do anything with them. I guess they don't want to eliminate the buffer between them and Egypt - I wouldn't either.

But I wasn't nearly as effective at messing with the Brutii, they have all of Greece and Macedonia, all I managed to do was grab all of the south bank of the Danube over to the Black Sea, and a few formerly Pontic territories in NW Turkey. Almost tempted to give them to the Brutii, in the hopes that they'll get sucked into a war with Egypt.

[The Black Sheep]

Havind the other Romans sucked in a war with Egypt is a good idea, but it can turn in an disadvantage. Because if the Brutii fight with Egypt in the north, the Scipii may aid them in the south. If they succeed in taking Egypt, which is mostly quite big, you will face two mighty Roman opponents as soon as the civil wars break out. And besides, if they control Egypt they will have an big and secured safe territory where they can train troops and make it an economical zone.

So it can be an useful trick, but it can also easily turn out in disaster, especially on VH/VH.

[Quintus.JC]

The Julii are destined for poor provinces, compared to your Italian allies at least. One way to overcome this is to get ahead of both other houses. Ignore Senate missions. Send your faction leader and another member with all starting Hastati to Carthage. Carthage starts with really weak units. Take Caralis on the way. After taking Carthage jump to Sparta, and expand into the Peloponnese from there. While you can also expand from Arretium into Northern Italy. This is as aggressive as it gets, expanding into three directions. From Carthage you can have all of Western Africa, from Sparta you can have all of the Balkans ahead of the Brutii, and also Gaul as well.

[Praetor Rick]

The Julii are destined for poor provinces, compared to your Italian allies at least. One way to overcome this is to get ahead of both other houses. Ignore Senate missions. Send your faction leader and another member with all starting Hastati to Carthage. Carthage starts with really weak units. Take Caralis on the way. After taking Carthage jump to Sparta, and expand into the Peloponnese from there. While you can also expand from Arretium into Northern Italy. This is as aggressive as it gets, expanding into three directions. From Carthage you can have all of Western Africa, from Sparta you can have all of the Balkans ahead of the Brutii, and also Gaul as well.

I find Carthage to be a bit of a handful, although it's certainly a profit center. Still, given the choice, I think I'd take 2/3 of Sicily over Carthage - which is what I can usually get, given the turbulent 3 way war that usually breaks out in Sicily in the early game. Pick a moment when the Scipii look to be on the ropes, and rush in where angels fear to tread and grab two cities. So far, 3 Julii games where I've tried it, and it worked twice, M/M and H/H difficulties. The third time I didn't evey get Lilybaeum, which I usually get - but not a lot you can do when the computer decides that the Scipii shall not be beaten, bruised, or even mildly inconvenienced. They actually were abusing Egypt early and severely enough that the Seleucids managed to make a comeback, which is frightening - usually the Scipii are the weakest of the Roman factions in my games.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I find Carthage to be a bit of a handful, although it's certainly a profit center. Still, given the choice, I think I'd take 2/3 of Sicily over Carthage - which is what I can usually get, given the turbulent 3 way war that usually breaks out in Sicily in the early game. Pick a moment when the Scipii look to be on the ropes, and rush in where angels fear to tread and grab two cities. So far, 3 Julii games where I've tried it, and it worked twice, M/M and H/H difficulties. The third time I didn't evey get Lilybaeum, which I usually get - but not a lot you can do when the computer decides that the Scipii shall not be beaten, bruised, or even mildly inconvenienced. They actually were abusing Egypt early and severely enough that the Seleucids managed to make a comeback, which is frightening - usually the Scipii are the weakest of the Roman factions in my games.

I loved those games where the selkies actually survived into the mid-game as a factor. Wonderful units to fight against.

[Praetor Rick]

I loved those games where the selkies actually survived into the mid-game as a factor. Wonderful units to fight against.

In my Germania game I rushed a diplomat over there and gave the Seleucids Rome to stop Egypt from winning the short campaign. It's looking like I may complete the long campaign before I win the short, what with me getting attacked by everybody *EXCEPT* Dacia and Scythia. Is that even possible in a short campaign?

Hmm, I made a post in the Brutii thread that mentions four factions, none of which are Brutii. My job here is done - I mean, what is there to say about the Brutii? They have the best temples of the Roman factions and get sent to the best territories of the Roman factions. Also, they routinely manage to hang on forever in Greece after you've destroyed the ability of the other two Roman factions to pose a threat by burning Italy to the ground. But the Brutii are like little Energizer bunnies - they keep on going, and going, and going. . .

[Quintus.JC]

In my campaigns all the Romans are really strong, but with Julii and Scipii as the obivous weaker two compared to Brutii. There's just no stop these guys from taking Greece and every province near it. Sure enough there have the best temples but also they could train their gladiators really early, in minor cities, such as Sparta after taking it, and with 2 exprience (Mars) and 2 HP they'd normally wipe out any light unit in the game early on, such as the ones the Dacians got.

[RLucid]

Once you learn how to win the big battles against large Hellenistic stacks, then the Brutii's strategic positional advantages, and financial strength is a real benefit.

The short campaign, probably takes a little longer than the Jullii short, but is more fun because of the Wonders. Having 2 factions to kill, and the spread of the Greeks, means it takes longer to get at them.

For long campaign, acquiring Illyria early on, and Patavium ought to stymie Jullii's long term prospects. The Scipii, are more problematic, unless you can snatch the sicilian Greek town (which fell very fast in my game, so was impossible to consider). If you would wander off, and attempt Carthage, like the Jullii player option, you really throw away the strategic advantages of concentration of effort in a compact, rich area.

Anti-Rebel

A fort + Town Watch north of Tarrentum, inhibits the annoying rebels who spawn disrupting trade between Tarrentum and Arinium.


Anti-Phalanx Fighting - Scary Looking Large Armies

In Reality Phalanxes are very easy to beat, and the Brutii have plenty of money to design suitable armies, rather than suffer compromises like Jullii, in Gaul with undeveloped towns. Try and strip off the supporting Cavalry and missile men first, as much as you can before the main forces start to clash. Cavalry may possibly requiring spearmen to fall back on before re-engaging, if you get caught with a deficit.

So use the Spies, and then use the info, so you can defeat the cavalry!

Avoid frontal compact or an unbroken line, be willing to use space to retreat behind waiting backup lines, and hit & run tactics in the gaps you create by maneuver. Infantry squares turn faster than lines, so when infantry are attacked, running towards a sides, cause significant eploitable disorganisation of the lumbering long spearmen who turn and present flanks to 2nd line forces.


Illyrian Mercs - Low upkeep, hard hitting Skirmishers, who if fresh can finish off a weakened Phalanx unit close-quarters, that has lost it's formation and can't use the spears effectively. But their main role is in maneuvering and hitting hard with Javelins from rear or flank as, Phalanx makes it's frontal creep assault against another unit.

Velites - Screen in early battle stages. Retreat from Frontal assault, hit flanks and rear with Javellins, and engage and pursue routers. They seem to get charged by AI cavalry gratifyingly often, so have some spearmen and cavalry waiting for a counter.

Some large battles the mainstay infantry (Hastati & Principes) haven't done anything more than watch, and then chase routing opposition to keep them moving and not reforming, so the Cav mops up. The reason is, that I try to keep them moving in squares, standing off the Phalanxes, which break when the moment to charge comes, and they're touch too slow to catch them up.

Sneeking into Dacia, you can recruit extra HC. Charging complete Phalanx from rear, with General unit leads to me losing the Gen, more often than I like.

So I like, using Echelons of Equites, try to use General HC against Light Lancers or opponents HC, once it's been engaged by counter-attacking spearmen, or and Equites unit. With Echelon, the 1st unit can attack or move behind, and the 2nd one can come in. Other units arriving, can then let your fragile light horse, have a rest before they get the jitters.

I actually prefer Barb mercs to Hoplites for anti-horse role. Though I try to use Merc Phalanxes, they seem rather feeble, though I guess as the AI will impale it's Horse on them, they make a good trap, for unwary cavalry.


Anti-Dacians

They have decent Light Infantry archers and some heavy hitting but poorly armoured troops. So the tactics to use are Cavalry charges, against the archers. You may be able to use oblique charge, to shift archer unit away from support, where a 2nd cavalry unit engages it, routing it, whilst the 1st breaks off it's attack short of line.

They are more sensible than some factions about withdrawing from battle field, when things start going wrong, so they are a little harder to annihiliate than Macs, Greeks, and Gauls for instance.

But frankly, why bother with the Dacians, until Macedon, and the Greeks are finished? They're likely to fight Germany and Thrace, and not show any interest in Segestica, Salonia or Macedon; unless you get in their way at Luvavum, which they show interest in, because it's the next rebel held place after Aquincum. The only city that's really worth holding is the Dacian capitol which has mines.


Naval Campaign

Some have written of very large Greek navies. Just be aggressive early on, and get your retaliation in first. Soon you will control the Aegean, and be blockading Rhodes, with Sparta & Corinth in your hands.

The spot where I may delay land action, is Sparta & Corinth, when the Greeks and Macs are fighting each other.

[RLucid]

In pre-Marian times, the roman military actually doesn't stand up to a well-formed Macedonian, Seleucid or Carthaginian force. Even barbarians like the Gauls can get their elite units quite quickly. If the AI used Phalanx armies better, conquest of Greece and the Balkans would be very hard indeed when playing the Bruti, making them the hardest roman faction, in spite of their fantastic temple options.
According to "Warfare in the Ancient World" Carey, Allfree and Cairns, the Macedonian wars ran from 238-179 BC, and were pre-marian. The Macs could not defeat the Manipular legions, but the mountain terrain made for stalemates strategically.

The Cohortal Legion, and Marian reform occur later, and the larger tactical units were in response to larger German Infantry wedges, meaning the Maniples of 160 men were too small.

Phalanxes were obsolete, there's a reason the Romans gave up on them (in fact Triarii are a Phalanx unit), the Etruscans had them. Contact with Iberian Infantry proved the greater efficiency of a looser order, more mobile fighting style. Combining the Pila, with shield and short sword gave, them greater flexibility.

The trend long term, was towards lighter more mobile, better articulated Infantry, and the Mac. phalanx shows that. The power of Philip II & Alexanders armies came from their balanced combined arms, with good generalship deploying them effectively against enemies who tended to seperate infantry and cavalry.

The fact that the Macs gave up on Phalanxes and adopted the Roman fighting style, rather should tell you something about the effective power of manipular v phalanx armies on real battlefields, where there's not a stylised convention to fight on a plain Heavy Infantry v Heavy Infantry with missiles despised (as existed in ancient Greece).

[Praetor Rick]

According to "Warfare in the Ancient World" Carey, Allfree and Cairns, the Macedonian wars ran from 238-179 BC, and were pre-marian. The Macs could not defeat the Manipular legions, but the mountain terrain made for stalemates strategically.

The Cohortal Legion, and Marian reform occur later, and the larger tactical units were in response to larger German Infantry wedges, meaning the Maniples of 160 men were too small.

Phalanxes were obsolete, there's a reason the Romans gave up on them (in fact Triarii are a Phalanx unit), the Etruscans had them. Contact with Iberian Infantry proved the greater efficiency of a looser order, more mobile fighting style. Combining the Pila, with shield and short sword gave, them greater flexibility.

The trend long term, was towards lighter more mobile, better articulated Infantry, and the Mac. phalanx shows that. The power of Philip II & Alexanders armies came from their balanced combined arms, with good generalship deploying them effectively against enemies who tended to seperate infantry and cavalry.

The fact that the Macs gave up on Phalanxes and adopted the Roman fighting style, rather should tell you something about the effective power of manipular v phalanx armies on real battlefields, where there's not a stylised convention to fight on a plain Heavy Infantry v Heavy Infantry with missiles despised (as existed in ancient Greece).

Historically correct, and correct in game when facing the AI as well. I'd question whether it's actually true in multiplayer fights, though - a human player will be far better able to apply the strengths of a phalanx unit than the AI can, that's for sure, and to compensate for its weaknesses. Still, I'm not a multiplayer fiend, so I'm not competent to argue the point.

I do know that phalanx units have proven at least as effective against the AI as roman style maniples and cohorts in my hands.

[RLucid]

The bottom line though is, that a Brutii player, facing Phalanxes in the Strategy game, has the means to easily destroy them, by recruiting a balanced combined arms force, with Dominant Cavalry and Missile troops, using systematic dismantlement piece by piece of the opposing army, who cannot bring their Sarissa's to bear offensively.

In RTW an MP battle will come down to the battle recruitment costs, and how much space for maneuver there is on the battlefield. The red-line business is rather unrealistic, as are the victory conditions; and the games are designed to be balanced. If the Phalanx units are cheap enough compared to Roman Infantry, then flanks could be protected by cavalry and non-Phalanx infantry, and they could be supported by enough missile men to patch up the inherent weaknesses. But once significant breaches develop the battle would be up. Roman style armies are more likely to remain coherent, and repulse a follow up, if some units withdraw, defeated to re-group, so can exploit terrain advantages better due to their flexibility..

The game battles also have the problem, that movement & battle stamina seem to be one variable, so heavily armoured troops climb easier than light troops who are supposed to be fast, agile and mobile. There also are a relative lack of terrain features like stream beds, and other impediments to maintaining an unbroken Phalanx line.

A statically set out "wagons in circle" Phalanx used by some MP players is vulnerable to missile fire in back, so archers fire to opposite side, according to MP player's posts.

Advancing Phalanx lines, have to creep forward without breaches occuring, and there has to be a reserve to cover any "tear" created by opposition, as well as a flank guard. There's a long thread on trouble deploying Phalanxes effectively, from that it appears the control issues, and avoiding gaps is not so simple. That line would have to be held even though only relatively few open order screen troops were deployed in front of many Phalanx units, because any breaks expose the whole line to enemy reserves.

When I've tried Phalanxes against AI, it is depressingly stupid, running Cavalry onto their spears and other unnatural acts, making it rather a mockery.

[salemty]

i hear people saying when u conquer a city to just train a few peasants as garrison. but i do not understand this because if the enemy attacks by the time u can train re-enforcments they've already taken the city. please explain

[RLucid]

The idea is that the army you captured the city with (possibly reinforced by follow on units) now conducts another attack, possibly intercepting to destroy an enemy army or simply besieging the next town. This presumes you capture the city with relatively small losses (which the Roman factions can and should be able to do).

Most won't rely on a garrison to defend a city, but use strategic mobility of army reserve to meet unexpected threats, as well as forts in choke points to delay attacks and allow production potential to reinforce your defence.

If you don't take sufficient garrison troops like Town Watch, you may well have to keep an influential general in the captured town, whilst garrisoning it. You may find small towns can be garrisoned with cheaper upkeep by an understrength unit (I've used 35 Illyrian Mercs once) rather than feeling compelled to use up 10% of population making peasants.

[salemty]

i understand that but if u have a whole bunch of cities with just a few peasants in each then if the enemy atacks u wont have time to train renforcments and most of the time there wont be enough mercenaries for ur general to hire to defeat the enemy and also if u attack with a releif force often the general u cant control will be killed in foolish charges. Once again, please explain

[RLucid]

If that's a danger you have a strategic reserve force, which you deploy to trouble spots. I tend to use TW garrison rather than Peasants with Roman factions because they are some use defensively on battlefield so march with the army, and the unshielded/unhelmeted dudes with a dagger just don't seem "Romanly" right to me.

The main thing is, that the AI is very slow, and also telegraphs it's attacks, so if you are suspicious of trouble, then having a spy wandering the bordering lands will give you plenty of warning. The ineffectiveness of AI is shown by the general disregard by players for upgrading walls, preferring mobile defense forces.

Even if you do lose a town, in general because you can invade areas more effectively and more rapidly than AI, so probably gain more by being aggressive than focusing on defense.

The Brutii have a lovely position, 2 cities with real allies to rear, low chance of amphibious landings by AI once headway has been made, and a large number of populous well developed cities to recruit at, close together.

So there really should be little problem, building armies in core areas, and a decent navy can land these armies in trouble spots.

[Praetor Rick]

i understand that but if u have a whole bunch of cities with just a few peasants in each then if the enemy atacks u wont have time to train renforcments and most of the time there wont be enough mercenaries for ur general to hire to defeat the enemy and also if u attack with a releif force often the general u cant control will be killed in foolish charges. Once again, please explain

Pretty much RLucid said what needs saying - if, as the Brutii, you are being attacked rather than doing the attacking, it's usually a sign that you're doing something desperately wrong.

If, as any faction, your garrisons are chosen primarily for being able to defeat an attacker rather than to maintain public order, you are similarly doing something desperately wrong.

It is, almost 100% of the time, more cost efficient to lose a city to an enemy attacker and have to momentarily divert a field force to recapture it than to keep strong military garrisons in all your vulnerable settlements. Garrison for public order, defend your settlements with field forces. Just for rebel squashing, you should have a number of smallish armies wandering around your empire, so there should usually be somebody around who can either lift the siege or recapture the settlement. Especially as the Brutii, who have the huge benefit of a very compact, rich, and populous theatre of expansion.

Also, when you have multiple armies in a battle, you can *USUALLY* control them, up to 20 units worth at a time, just by unchecking the box. I understand that it's not always, but frankly, I've never had a problem - my reinforcement armies are always controllable. Helps keep my family members from unauthorized suicidal charges into formed phalangites.

[RLucid]

Thanks! Thought of 2 more points to add to your explanation.

Family members out of towns, have advantage they can hire mercs; and also can be defeated but survive the battle. Getting an important general trapped in a town with moderate defense forces, is not good. Especially if relief is not at hand, and starvation is a real possibility.

Reinforcement armies which are captain led, rather than general led, seem to be the ones where unchecking the box works. So be careful when approaching armies/town you can't quite reach where a battle is a possibility. I've had some really dumb losses, basically caused by the AI doing dumb things, and the difficulty of coordinating with it to secure victory.

[Praetor Rick]

Thanks! Thought of 2 more points to add to your explanation.

Family members out of towns, have advantage they can hire mercs; and also can be defeated but survive the battle. Getting an important general trapped in a town with moderate defense forces, is not good. Especially if relief is not at hand, and starvation is a real possibility.

Reinforcement armies which are captain led, rather than general led, seem to be the ones where unchecking the box works. So be careful when approaching armies/town you can't quite reach where a battle is a possibility. I've had some really dumb losses, basically caused by the AI doing dumb things, and the difficulty of coordinating with it to secure victory.

It must be more complex than that - I've had reinforcement battles where both of my armies had generals, and I controlled everything.

Maybe you only lose control if you're on the defensive or something, I rarely get caught in defensive reinforcement battles.

[RLucid]

It can easily happen on 1st turn of a siege where spy fails to open gates. A relieving army attacks, and draws the reinforcing General into a surprise battle, with painful results.

The problem is that I take care to avoid the situations to. It was not clear why the AI insisted on control, and if I have assembly issues for an attack, it's only when movement goes somewhat wrong that I permit the risk. May be when you're attacked, the AI leads General led reinforcments. I can remember battles where I reinforced a captain army with a general, lost the rally ability but not control of it. But other times attacked, and found the AI annoyingly insisted on controlling the other stack. Could not see any consistency in it.

[Praetor Rick]

It can easily happen on 1st turn of a siege where spy fails to open gates. A relieving army attacks, and draws the reinforcing General into a surprise battle, with painful results.

The problem is that I take care to avoid the situations to. It was not clear why the AI insisted on control, and if I have assembly issues for an attack, it's only when movement goes somewhat wrong that I permit the risk. May be when you're attacked, the AI leads General led reinforcments. I can remember battles where I reinforced a captain army with a general, lost the rally ability but not control of it. But other times attacked, and found the AI annoyingly insisted on controlling the other stack. Could not see any consistency in it.

I guess I've just gotten lucky with it, then - the only way I knew the issue existed at all was reading about it on the forum.

[Celtic_Punk]

the scipii in my brutus campaign, went west secured greece (all i got was thermon and macedonia...) and now all they have left in asia minor is pontus... ive never seen them do this before, they didnt attack carthage... so i did. and the egyptians have conquered all of africa, except for my tiny portion of it. now im surrounded by angry, greekoegyptian's with chariots, and im stuck with heavy infantry... i do not think this is going to end well for my position in africa

[RLucid]

Sounds like a good case study in argument for early highly aggressive rapid expansion, to out-pace any moves AI makes in "your" area then.

[salemty]

i would like to know what cities u let the AI manage(if any) and at what point do u start allowing the AI to manage cities. thanks in advance

[Celtic_Punk]

personally man, i do all the management, i dont trust the ai... :P

but ive found if you've got a settlement managed by a faction member, do not put the tax rate over normal, or else he will begin to take penalties from it such as financial irregularity, or he will become a harsh ruler, or what have you. and if you are on at low for too long, he will become too nice, and will receive a lenience penalty.

you will have much better growth and development if you manage all cities yourself.

[RLucid]

Don't you suffer from "bad tax assessor" traits causing a long term income penalty, keeping taxes so low?

[Celtic_Punk]

only if you put it on LOW tax, keeping it at normal gives you bonus' if not nothing at all. on cities without a governor put it up to the highest possible taxation.

[RLucid]

Is that Brutii specific (or may be playing difficulty)? Because that's not what I found generally in the Vanilla 1.5 game, there if your population was too happy, you caught the trait rather frequently. There are mods that alter that, think bugfixer is meant to make the annoying bad tax trait less frequent.

[Praetor Rick]

Is that Brutii specific (or may be playing difficulty)? Because that's not what I found generally in the Vanilla 1.5 game, there if your population was too happy, you caught the trait rather frequently. There are mods that alter that, think bugfixer is meant to make the annoying bad tax trait less frequent.

My experience is, as long as you either cannot raise the tax rate (ie, already Very High) or raising the tax rate will cause red faces, you're safe. Anything less than that, you risk running into the bad taxman traits. I've had a family member get useless assessor in a city where the taxes were High instead of Very High, because I didn't hit the triangle button the last time I clicked it.

I will thus raise taxes as high as I can while a family member is in residence, and drop them to low taxes as soon as he leaves to get the population up quickly. Well, unless it's a city where I don't want it growing quickly, in which case I keep taxes as h igh as I can regardless of whether any governor is present.

[RLucid]

I've had a family member get useless assessor in a city where the taxes were High instead of Very High, because I didn't hit the triangle button the last time I clicked it.

Me to, and it's annoying as pursueing pop. growth seems perfectly legitimate to me, and it means moving Governors about more often, to take advantage of discounts, or enslavement pop growth (which is then counter-acted by need to raise taxes to avoid the trait).

Bugfixer helps supposedly with this, but leaves your files incompatible with othes online.

[Celtic_Punk]

in my experience any tax regime higher than normal turns your governor into a total asshole:dizzy2:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

in my experience any tax regime higher than normal turns your governor into a total asshole:dizzy2:

That's why I use them for conquering the world and not sitting in a little town some place on the edge of the world ~:)

[Celtic_Punk]

haha, good call good call, but sadly your largest settlements require a governor present, or else all hell will break loose. Plus some men are just not fit to die on the field of battle.:no:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

haha, good call good call, but sadly your largest settlements require a governor present, or else all hell will break loose. Plus some men are just not fit to die on the field of battle.:no:

And still others are such useless gits that they become the third general in the army, functioning as self-regenerating cavalry until they've either died or become some kind of killing machine.

[RLucid]

All these anti-Governor practices, basically show why mods have attempted to fix this bug.

Part of the game design, is building up influential governors, not just fighting generals, in order to be able to manage large cities' rebellious tendencies later on.

May be "useless assessor" is not actually in practice harmful to Brutii, as it postpones corruption issues caused by being stinking rich. But lowering taxes risks over-population issues later, which trouble many players.

But with the Corinth massive loyalty bonus wonder, in the Brutii's natural domain, I really wonder if anyone has a real problem with all of this. I kind of got the impression from the introductory film, that the Brutii were a bit barking, and they weren't breeding much either, so do these "angry man" tendencies actually pose significant difficulty towards fulfilling victory conditions?

[Celtic_Punk]

well i am absolutely stinking rich, (well i shot all 160 grand on cueing up buildings across my vast empire) and the scipii have corinith. and im doing alright, my cities are not having problems with unrest (except the damn thracian settlements, ive chased thrace to the northern end of the baltic, :duel: and their homelands continue to bitch at me for no reason.)


by the way, is it odd that the julii have conquered what was nazi europe?

minus poland which happens to be in my possetion...:chinese:

[eliterun]

has anybody else had the senate assign them to take Patavium?

the Senate assigned it to me right as the Julii were sieging Mediolanium...I took it, the Julii lifted their siege and the Gauls sued for peace with me. I said, "No way unless you give me Mediolanium", and the Gauls caved.

So now I've got these nice territories in Northern Italy, and the Julii are stuck having to take the long walk through the mountains to get to the Gauls...they still don't have the guts.

Is it just me, or in other people's games are the other Roman factions wimps? in my Julii game the Scipii only had Sicily, the Brutii two provinces in Greece, this was in like 236.

Now I've got all of Greece as the Brutii, while the Julii only have the 3 Italian provinces and the Scipii two of the three provinces in Sicily...250 BC. I'm pretty much walking all over Greece into Thrace and the other Romies don't look to be problems. Is it because I'm playing M/M?

[Darkvicer98]

It could be that your playin M/M. On E/E the Roman Factions take around 1/4 of the map and destroy 3/4 factions so i guess M/M is giving those factions space and time to become hard enemies.

Have you changed the files? Another reason is that you could have changed the Romans personalities.

[eliterun]

nah, just vanilla v1.3, with the exception of unlocking all the factions...

that could be true, I'm also thinking though of some of the people playing on H or VH who have the other Romies taking a chunk of the map.

maybe CA has it written up somewhere that there's only a total number of territories that Rome is supposed to have at a given time, and if the player is exceeding that, then the other factions become wimps.

or maybe M/M makes the armies more cautious...

other thought is that I have been blocking some of the other factions a little bit, in my Brutii campaign I took the two N. Italy provinces, so that's kind of preventing the Julii from expanding...which is weird because they constantly have an army shuttering back from the coast to the gap in the mountains to stare at the Gaulish provinces.

and in my Julii campaign I took Cirta, but the Scipii took an army and sent it to explore the Thracian territories? it's just wondering around in Scythia/Dacia, a full stack of Scipii. nowhere close to any of their lands in Sicily:inquisitive:

[RLucid]

In my first Brutii M/M game, which I intended to be just a quick run through of first 5 yrs or so, to "scout" the ground, the Scipii rapidly took Sicily and broke out into Carthage, as I was crushing the Macedonians. I had early on moved up the Adriatic, to take the mines, and seen off a small Gaullish force. When the Julii besieged Mediolanum at last, I besieged Patavium, and got attacked by the main Gaul army which I destroyed to take the town. The Julii, took Mediolanum much later, and was very sluggish to move against Massilia.

If the Scipii had had an early setback, and had difficulty breaking out of Sicily I would be agreeing with your experience. As it is, though I feel the Julii are a harder faction to play well than Brutii (due to their diverse strategic interests, with natural land expansion into poorer lands), I think how well the AI factions do is partly down to luck, and where/how the rebel interventions come disrupting the faction strategy.

[Darkvicer98]

Do you have Barbarian invasion installed eliterun? That makes RTW version 1.3 instead of its original version 1.5. That also destroys the Superalliance features and makes it almost like a normal alliance. That could have an effect on the Romans.

[salemty]

id just like to tell you all about a battle that amazed me. i was brutii on normal/normal large unit size. i had about 400 troops. 2 hastati 2 velites and 2 generals. the enemy(macedon) had 1400 troops. he had a heaps of phalanx pikemen, macedonian cavalry, light lancers and levy pikemen. a few of the cavalry were way out in front so i destroyed them. then macedon had just a heap of phlanxes and levys and using hit and run tactics i destoyed his troops.

DEATH TOLL-losses-men remaining
brutii(me)- 220 184
Macedon- 1432 0

[Kietharr]

I found an interesting strategy in my last Brutii game. I decided to toss things up and after taking Apollina, Syracuse, Dalmatia and Illyria like usual I decided to avoid Greece and go after Carthage. I destroyed Carthage and Numidia, but the real benefit here was that the Scipii were never able to expand. In addition to their two starting provinces they only ever captured Sardinia/Corsica. When civil war came I was faced with a Scipii faction only slightly more advanced than it was in 270BC. Of course, this tactic comes at the price of delaying a Greek conquest, but neither the Julii nor the Scipii attempted to attack Greece in my case.

[Celtic_Punk]

Thats what I did and scipio went for Greece, I had to abandon Carthage and blitz Greece. but not in time to stop scipio jumping over to Turkey. I made short work of their laterally expanded empire though in the civil war. Though my greek campaign, I took over sicily first and scipio never moved out of Italy... This was all on M/M

As soon as you think you can predict AI behavior, they go and do something totally different!:frog:

[Mek Simmur al Ragaski]

I had lots of success with the Brutii when I started a campaign last night. I managed to do a series of successful assaults on all Greek held cities in Greece, and I'm slowly moving up to Macedonia. Ill just tell you what I did:

I grouped both starting armies you get together and got a boat over to Appolina, I took it in the first turn. I then sent a spy and a diplomat down to Thermon and with my army following I demanded they give me Thermon in return for an alliance, trade rights and some map info. Realising that the Scipii would break the alliance before I did, I quickly attacked the Greeks who had left the city and got a Heroic victory.

I then allied with Macedonia and walked on to Sparta. The Greeks has left a garrison of some hopilites, some armoured hopilites and some Spartans. I quickly got rid of these and took Sparta. When I took Sparta I realised I had taken a city with Principines ready to be trained. So I quickly began training some for use on my attacks on Macedon. I also built up a fleet to keep the large stack of Greek troops from leaving Rhodes, I will get rid of them soon. Also there is another Greek city near Pontic lands, but I'm not too worried about it.

I built up a few units of principines and sieged Corinth. I managed to take it with minimal casualties and killed 2 Macedonian generals. I find that the key to defeating Macedonian cavalry and phalanxes is:
1. Use phalanxes to engage cavalry on equal ground, if it is uneven then just use your generals bodyguard to kill the cavalry.
2. For phalanxes, just engage them and hit them from behind with your light or heavy cavalry. You colud even use a trick that I use in cities when I have two cavalry units. You make the phalanx head for one unit, then hit it from behind with the other. Then when the pikes are lifted hit it head on with the unit facing the phalanx.

Anyway, I sent a spy into Athens and the gates were open when I attacked. I didn't fight this battle particularly well and lost much more men than usual. The phalanx blocking the gate held for a long period of time, and the towers wiped out most of my archers. However as soon as the phalanx at the gate broke I wiped out the enemy with principines and heavy cavalry.

Oh and I sent a small force to secure Salona so the Macedonians couldn't capture it.

This is where I am now, I've been quite fortunate in my campaign, the Greeks have offered no resistance and the Macedonians are doing badly economically.