Roman: Scipii

[Vitellus]

This is more of a question than a story or anything else:

Essentially, has anyone else had this happen to them?:

It's 229 BC. The last Egyptian city has just fallen to Scipii arms, finally wiping that nuisance off the map after a decade-long struggle. Scipii holdings include all of Africa save Nepte and Cyrene (but armies are en route to rectify that), all of Spain, every Mediterranean island save Crete, all of Greece and the Balkans save Sparta and Thrace, the Dacian territories, Ephesus in Asia Minor (the Pontians, staunch allies of the Scipii, hold the rest to the border with Armenia), and Sidon, Jerusalem, Bostra, Petra, and everything west of that in the Middle East. The rest of the East is a split between the large Pontian Empire (the non-Roman state of any size now, except Britain on the other end of Europe), Parthia (which has only its capital left), and Armenia (which has Susa, Dumatha, and the Armenian home territories, after coming out on the wrong side of a nasty war with Pontus).

Now, as 229 dawns, I get a new Senate Mission: Blockade Port (Kydonia). I frown in confusion. That's a Brutii province. I'm on relatively good terms with the Senate (despite the mob thinking me Romulus reborn), and the Brutii are, as well - or so I thought. Now I check, and I'm at war with the Brutii! The Julii have apparently also revolted, the Senate is now nuetral towards me, and the Thracians have abandoned our alliance!

Thinking the civil war has broken out, I put into action several plans I've formulated over the last several years. The armies on the Dacian frontier swing southwest and begin pushing towards Italy from the north. Two armies in Spain launch a surprise attack over the Pyrenees and take two Juliii settlements almost unopposed. Sicily, the heart of Scipii holdings, begins training a new army. Two armies are formed from various garrisons in Greece nad march towards the two Brutii armies around Sparta, and finally the large African army embarks for Crete.

Then, in the winter of that year, the Senate orders me to attack the Julii, as they've been outlawed. Immediately after I agree, a second message comes, ordering me to attack the Brutii, as they've also been outlawed. Finally, the last message comes, informing that I, too, have been outlawed for that matter.

Now, the war has been raging for the last two years, with good results in Greece and Crete but no further gains in Gaul and none at all in Italy - but I just landed no less than 3 full-stack armies there to defeat the Brutii, then sweep north and meet the army that managed to steal Patavium from the Julii. My question is, has anyone else had the Senate go insane and outlaw EVERYONE at once, starting the civil war on its own? 'coz I've NEVER had that happen before. Still, a 4-way war in Italy has proven VERY interesting so far...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Heard about it, but never had it happen to me. Sounds like you balanced off the other factions and the Senate at the perfect pace. Kudos!

[Headhunter242]

Hello folks,

the guides on the ORG always provide me a good read and tought an old dog some new tricks. Thanks for that! :2thumbsup:

I'm currently playing the scipii on H/M having a good time bashing carthaginian heads after I lost interest in my julii campaign which stalled at the invasion of spain.
It's something around 250bc now and my forces hold capua, all of Sicilly, Sardinia, Lepsis Magna, Carthago and Thapsus. Julii are having a tough time battling the gauls and just managed to take Mediolanum (and not much else), while the brutii help them out on the eastern coast around Patavium (even besieged the city itself!). The balkans are almost untouched by them, so my next goal will be getting a foothold there and nab some rich cities. :laugh4: The greeks got some 3 large stacks just north of Athens which could wreck serious havok amongst the brutii, but they don't move to any of the poor defended brutii settlements... Wonder, what they are up to... Invade rome itself? :beam:

Anyways... Just want to tell you my story which was very satisfying so far...

The first turn, the senate commanded me to attack the greek on sicilly. No prob, I thought, grabbed my armies from capua (leaving only townwatch) and my settlement on sicilly to do a coordinated assault on the greek city. They were so kind to put out some of their troops on the open field, so only a small garrison was left. Fine for me. Grabbed some mercs while I was at it. Carthago agreed to trade with me. Next turn the siege was on with a 3/4 stack. Built some siege towers and grabbed the town, killing off a greek family member. The greek army outside just stood there watching the show. The town became my dedicated troop center, while Capua and Messana (my fleet factory) were built up for economy. Senate rewarded me with 5000 denarii which were highly appreciated for paying off some greeks. The cartaginians became nervous. The Senate wanted them dead.
They shipped their sicilly army ready to deploy either near caralis or back on sicilly. I did not manage to kill them with my fleet, but drove them off to caralis before laying siege to their foothold on sicilly. With their main army not in range I overran the town. Julii finally knocked on the shores of sardinia, so the carthaginian army was engaged. Made a short stop to rearm and retrain.
Julii had a helluva time fighting elephants on sardinia and lost stack after stack. I made a surprise sweep to Caralis and besieged immediately after disembarking thinking the main army would be playing with my red brothers. Next turn, they were attacking me after the shores were colored red with dead Julii. Good for me that I purchased some peltasts, sarmatians and a phalanx just for the case of the siege going FUBAR...
And it did. The elephants got a silver chevron bashing the julii! Almost wetting their togas, my force stood near battlefield borders, arms at the ready. Phalanx and sarmatians up front facing the main army, peltasts and bowmen behind preparing for a light-show. Cavalry and hastati as a backup on my right flank which was safe. The eles showed up before my frontline walking up and down like a general inspecting his troops. My bowmen fired everything they had on them, while my forces held the line against the iberians. Finally the eles decided to charge. Right into my phalanx line! Broke through but my peltasts routed them almost instantly. 6 escaped (I should see them again pretty soon)... The carthaginian army routed and withdrew into the city.
Minor losses on my side, I decided to kill of the remains. Just before they could say "WTF!?!" my rams were at the gates. My bowmen spotted 6 large shadows in the streets. "Damn! Those beasts again!" Lit the show and fired away on them. To no effect. So I had to lure them. I gave the sarmatians some bags with peanuts and put them inside the city right before the gates:"Come on Simba, have some peanuts!" "Arrrr... When I get that general dumbassus maximus, I'll peanut his face!" And they came. My peltasts were ready, bowmen fired away. The sarmatians did a good job holding them and soon the eles routed under heavy fire. 2 broke through the line and ran outside the gates, 1 was killed immediately, the last one raging though my velites and peltasts. With combined forces, the last elephant fell. :2thumbsup: The remaining force was severly reduced by archer fire and fell victim to my cavalry. Caralis was finally mine.

To be continued...

[Headhunter242]

So this is part 2 of the story. Hope you enjoy it!

After caralis was sacked, my finances began to rise slowly. My bank account barely reached 5000 denarii the last few years because of building up and retraining, so I had to keep on conquering. So my fleet softened up the carthaginians by blocking their ports and shipped my army to Thapsus, which was poorly garrisoned. Brought some agents with me to do some dirty work.
Sacked the city in no time and secured my beachhead in africa. I guarded the town til it built stone walls and the basic military buildings to retrain my troops just in case. My spies spotted an unsuspecting FM with a small army nearby.
Actually it was the whiteys faction leader! :laugh4: Took my chance and let my young generals get some retinue. Meanwhile my spies reached Carthago just to see 2 full units of elephants roaming in the streets. So, this would be a tough one. But i had to react before carthago could come up with a sizeable army. Numidia watched the show and my diplomats negotiated trade rights as the senate wanted. 1000 denarii in return for babbling away at the noobs? Mmmmkay.
Carthago was virtually bankrupt after years of blockaded ports. Their navy crushed, their armies broken. Time to take on the city.
Having learned my lesson with elephants I took every man I could get to arms to the siege. My bowmen had earned quite a lot of experience in my campaign and were the most valuable unit of the army.
And they should show it again. After storming the walls, my bowmen made short work of everything showing up (the eles, some cav and the faction heir stayed at the center), so i could advance with my phalanx, triarii and spearmen in one street and hastati, cav and peltasts on the other.
My bowmen climbed down the walls to support my spearmen. I launched a two pronged attack. I had to sacifice some spear throwing mercs as a lure, but my play worked. The general charged into my phalanx, the cav got pounded by pila and arrows. The eles died pretty easy in a massive assault and routed out of the city. Victory!
Meanwhile, my spies got to Lepsis Magna where the remains of the once proud carthaginian army (2 full stacks!) waited for revenge. I would bring it to them...

To be continued...

[Severous]

A picture of one of the unique Scipii units.

https://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1930/egypt41corvusiw6.th.jpg (https://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=egypt41corvusiw6.jpg)

Its from a campaign where Scipii migrated to Egypt and slowly expand from the corner. About to war with Dacia.

[Quirinus]

I don't think the Corvus and the Decere are useful military units-- a curiosity, yes, but firstly, it is too high-tier for widespread use, and secondly, unlike Mirmillo gladiators or urban cohorts, by the time a reasonable amount of your cities can build them, naval combat would have dwindled to almost nothing anyway. Biremes and triremes in masses do the job well enough, I think.

That aside, Severous, how do you get to the point you are in that picture? Did you abandon Capua and Messana to head east right at the beginning? I'm intrigued.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

???????
Why did you lose Sicily, and end up in Egypt? To make the game more interesting?

[Quirinus]

Since Campania now belongs to the SPQR, I doubt that he 'lost' Sicily, more like he intentionally abandoned these settlements. But it looks interesting. Maybe I'll start a topic about this in the Colloseum.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

To lose Campania would imply he forced an early civil war. At war with everyone, moving to a new homeland...Certainly makes for an interesting campaign. :7detective:

[The Wandering Scholar]

Or just gave it away

[Good Ship Chuckle]

Another possibility, but can you imagine SPQR reaction.
"Dear Senate, I don't like it here so I'm going to take a couple legions and sail on over to Egypt and set up my faction there. You can have Capua, btw. Do you have a problem with that?" :laugh:

[The Wandering Scholar]

:laugh4: imagine that

[Bellicin]

How very Marc Anthony of him :egypt:

Kind regards

[Bellicin]

I'm curious how the AI performs with the 1.5 & 1.6 patches myself. It certainly hasn't honored the Carthaginians very well. I coul be that I'm only playing a Med/Med campaign. I probably should have went of Hard/Hard, but I wanted to see how the game feels with the new changes. (I've always been a bit cautious that way, a lil' like Ol'e Pete Longstreet of the Confederacy)

I assume this might have been adressed in previous replies but what the heck:

The AI appears to be really nasty from what I've seen so far in 1.5. Earlier I've finished a dozen or so campaigns in 1.0 on different settings, and trying VH/VH in 1.5 is by far the biggest challenge I've had.

On the campaignmap the AI is pretty aggressive but not as rabid as I expected. Mind you I've only played 15 years of a Scipii-campaign though. So far I'm being hit by quite a bit of rebels (about 1 rebel army popping up every year in random province) and Carthage have been a bit of a pain until now. They had two full stacks roaming around the countryside, but luring them into attacking my main force at a river crossing took care of that.

One thing I have noticed though is that the AI is much more prone to ship their troops to other provinces and islands. The Greek Cities actually landed in Italy and tried to attack the Brutii in my current campaign, and the Julii have been rude enough to steal Caralis and Palma right before my eyes.

In battle I was impressed to see the AI flank me for the first time yesterday, and with a perfect pincermovement no less! Overconfidently I had one unprotected unit of hastati coming to reinforce my main army sieging Carthage, and hit by two units of long shield cavalry and one general it routed within seconds. They actually attacked at the exact same moment from three sides (front and sides) while staying out of pila-range all the time. Scarily impressive...

Overall the AI seems to be performing better but not incredibly so. Most fights are still about lining up and getting the advantage of height, peppering the enemy with all missiles you have without them charging. It seems that in 1.5 (compared to 1.0) the AI is more prone to try and deal with missiles by sending forth 1 unit at a time to chase the enemy missile unit off, which basically never works.

The biggest battleproblem I've had so far are the elephants, which are a nightmare on VH. I faced a battered unit of two lowtier elephants in Lepcis Magna, and they survived constant missile fire (fire arrows from my archers) and managed to take down one whole unit of wardogs and around 150 hastatii before dying. Had some better luck later on with making them go nuts or break but nowadays I try to stay well clear of them at all costs.

My two cents about the Scipii:
Carthage and Numidia are musts to defeat, they'll only backstab you if you leave them or their territories will be taken by more competent factions. I see many of the above posters try and get a share of the Greek Cities in their own homeland but I've never had enough military power to stretch that far myself. Taking whatever islands you can (Palma, Caralis, Kydonia) from Carthage or Rebels are great plans too, they'll bring in a steady income without requiring much defense. The sea is the Scipii homeland, so building a decent navy to fight off pirates and enemy ships is the way to go. Not to mention the ports will soon be your biggest source of income.

Yikes, that turned out longer than expected :book:

Kind regards

[Centurion1]

The Romans are most definitely overpowered by the AI. Some of you have been mentioning attacks on the brutti's and Jullis usual avenues of attack. This isnt really my style. I prefer to fight an all-powerful group of roman families at the end. :laugh4: In fact ive been known to give the romans a little push in the right direction. Anyway, im playing as the scippi on VH/VH, and the camapign has shaped up pretty nicely. I conquered sicily first as is standard, then caralis and palma, (while i like a strong roman factions at the end, islands are my favorites), i then moved in on thapsus. After thapsus i conquered Carthage. Those stinking elephant riders then lost lepcis magna in quick order. I then conquered cirta. After that it was the marius reform (i known it seems slow, but that's my style.) i then built up three distinctive armies, in varying degrees of power. I had a African army composed of 8 early lego, 4 archers, a 5-star general, 4 roman cavalry, and a ballista for the sake of history. Then i created a Spanish army of 8 normal legos, 4 archers, 4 roman cavalry, a 8- star general, and an onager. My third army was based in italy for prepartion of the civil war and is composed of 8 praetorian guard, 4 archer auxilia, 4 praetorian cavalry, two scorpions, and a 4- star general. The north african army conquered tingi, dimmidi, and nepte in quick order. My spanish legion, soon mounted amphibious landings on corduba and conquered it, then moved on to Carthago navo. They are about to take oslo. (it takes a while because i am reluctant to attack with my troops in cities they are unable to retrain in, so ive been starving out my enemies.) Ironically enough ive adopted a roman tactic in spain and north africa. :idea2: Because of excess armies of numidians and spainards ive been building forts at every stop. Needless, to say there has been no more trouble.
Global diplomacy is...........at the least intresting. The five greatest nations are in order, egypt, myself, brutti, julli, and the GAULS. Yeah my stupid northern brothers havent defeated some stinking barbarians (i did help the gauls out a litle HEEHEE) I am currently financing a VERY succesful war in asia minor between the greeks and egyptians. The greeks have entire west coast and the north east (im trying to create a new greek empire.....plus i hate the egyptians) And most intresting the julli have been losing provingces from the britains and gauls (the britainsa own all northern europe, and gaul owns modern day france and two cities) in spain Hmmm, this may lead to some new develoments. Sorry, to ramble more info coming:beam:

[Barry]

A very entertaining campaign Centurion. I may have to start a campaign as the Scipii now... :beam:

[Centurion1]

Yeah it has been quite satisfying i looked back and i was like what faction would i like to play and then it hit me. Ironically enough the scippi are the first faction i played and i hadnt played them since.

So a quick update, i am currently in control of all n. africa up to lepcis magna and am pursuing a very vigorous war in Spain. The egyptians are invading the new greek empire in Asia minor and the britons are expanding their power in the north. The gauls power was much more extensive then i expected, they controlled all modern day france AND Scallabis, numantia, and Oslo. The gauls and Brits brief push against the Julli was short lived and they are now reeling and have lost a little ground. The dacians are holding on by a single province, while surronded by brits, julli, and brutti. Not really sure whats going on in the east besides for greece and that Egypt is kicking @$# (nothing unusual there) the sythians are in control of all the north -east to the best of my knowledge. The gauls are fotressing in france with stack upon stack and even my julli brothers are unable to shake them out. After i defeat them in spain i think im going to be their financial backbone and maybe give them that edge to beat the romans (unlikely but it will be entertaining). I am also going to crush the numidians in libya and cyrene (would have earlier but its such a pain to get armies across deserts). My main thing now is to keep the greeks strong so they can keep the egyptians busy (once again unlikely but it WILL be intresting) Im about to crush those pesky spainards and their remaining city soon. Isuppose after i fortress in Spain, and North Africa, ill finish off the islands and prepare to raze the coast. I will land in coastal egyptian cities, conquer, exterminate, destroy all buildings, and leave. I'll take a screeshot next time, ill be making my move after i've conquered all spain, ive forted garrisons in the Pyrenees (5 normal legos, 5 archers, and 3 cav.) I also want a full stakc with a general each in Spain (maybe two there for historical reference), a stack of the same composition in n. africa, a italian stack, a raiding stack (for coast), an island stack, and 2 stacks for my libyan thrust. and finally a rebel hunting army composed of cav. in my major regions which is 5 melee cav., and 5 cav. auxilia with a young general for experience (italy, n. africa, spain, sicily). :laugh4: Thats only like 8 stacks with associated odds and ends. This will be boring but intresting because ill fight one awesome ai in the end, and ill get to set up my protectorate kingdoms. Barry tell me how your camapign sets up if you decide to go for it.

[Barry]

I will do Centurion, good luck funding 8 stacks!! I hope you have a decent financial strucure.

[Centurion1]

Yep im not too thrilled with the prospect. My financial structure is pretty well-developed as of now tho with an net profit (after expenditures) of 30k per turn with a base fortune of 450k. So i think i'll be okay.

[Barry]

Hmm, are you experienceing bad traits for your generals? All that money can corrupt them.

Ok, just started out with my Scipii campaign, I hadn't realised that I had removed the unbreakable alliance with the other Romans, getting sieged in Capua first turn with a full stack SPQR army was a bit of a shock but since then I have regrouped on Sicily. Messana is infantry, Syracuse Cavalry and Lilybaeum Missile. I find this to be very effective.

I dominate the sea and I am now in a position to launch an attack on Carthage and Thapsus, both should be very easy to take as my army consisting of 6-star general, 6 Hastati, 4 Cav and 4 Missile (most units are silver Chevron after previous victories).

I aim to secure N. Africa, eliminate Numidia then strike in Spain. No rush though.

[Centurion1]

No i am currently solid with the corruption traits. I believe i have like two managing generals with that trait, but my majority are fine right now. I think its due to the fact that my current faction leader had the tendency to pass down his trait of Honest to his sons and brothers.

Your campaign sounds very interesting so far. What difficulty are you currently at, i would imagine vh/vh? The whole removal of the alliance with the romans is very very interesting, i wonder though? Have the other romans been attacking each other? i can fell relatively confident in a thesis that without each other the romans lose their greatest advantage. Wow, your campaign sounds like it is really shaping up. I think it was a very good move when you built up your navy as well as your army. Especially since you're located on an island. Have you managed to grab any other settlements besides sicily? Do you have any designs upon the reconquering of Italy. Sounds like a very well put together beginning and has already surprised you :2thumbsup: Please keep me updated i am intrigued

[Barry]

I have only managed to play out a few turns since my last post. Carthage however is mine after three shoddy armies attacked me to force the garrison to sally. I say armies but it was just a rag tag of poor units. My infantry did not even waggle their swords! My equites are now very experienced and so is my General Gaius. With Carthage under my belt I am quite rich indeed and I am considering building up my forces to just breeze accross Africa, I dont really see the point of gaining 7k a turn (which I am now) so I may aswell upgrade my navy and Army and I will atack Numidia when I am only earning 1k a turn.
I have made ceasefires and gained trading rights with all the Romans and re-allied with the Julii who are now at war with SPQR. It is a shame that Gaul have not sought to gain any Julian land. Macedon however are very strong and control all of Greece apart from Sparta (GCS) and Larissa (Brutii) up to the Danube. If my war with Spain goes ahead and goes well I may have to launch an attack into Macedon.

No plans for war with Rome yet, they give me too much money in trade haha.

[Barry]

Another update; the Brutii have absolutely demolished the Senate who had previously sent the Julii to Caralis. Mediolanium is still Gallic but the powerhouse that is Macedon has ejected the Brutii and Greeks and now control Sparta all the way up to the Danube and also Patavium!

Hit the reforms in 239BC and all my settlements are huge cities apart from Thapsus and Lilybaeum. I only control Thapsus and Carthage off sicily.

I have hit major problems! I cannot keep Carthage happy and also, more worryingly, Messana and Syracuse are intent on rebellion. If I let them revolt and retake them I will be cripppled with low populations and so impoverished from the lack of taxes. What to do?

[Darkvicer98]

You could change your Capital City to one in Sicily, that would help cities further away from Italy but it could invoke unhappiness in Capua.

[Barry]

My capital is Messana, Capua is now in the hands of the Brutii.

[Centurion1]

Barry,

Did you exterminate the populations in carthage and thapsus? And did you try building roman temples there. Also how large is your garrison???? Are you taxing at very high, if you are it may be more prudent to lower it a little and wait for you to become more popular with the population. Finally, do you have a governor and if so does he have any traits that would make your people hate him???

[Barry]

Low taxes, Roman Pantheons, exterminated them when I took over, massive squalor problems, I believe it is because of farming, the trouble is I have to lower taxes to stop revolts but this gives me bigger population growth and so more squalor. I don't want to take everyone out of the cities and retake them but this may be my only option.

[Centurion1]

Hmm, have you built up your public health buildings??? that should definitely remedy the situation with squalor. Plus i believe there is a retainer (civil engineer???) and a trait (cleanliness) that helps public health. If all else fails then you can leave and terminate the savages. :laugh4:

[Caius]

I have hit major problems! I cannot keep Carthage
Carthage is known to have rebellions, like Corduba does. It is intentional, not sure why.

[Centurion1]

Good point Caius, this is true barry you may just have to deal with the hell that is carthage, if it really annoys you i recommend exterminating to 400

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Or you could just use add_population Carthage -4000 console command. This is the easiest way to solve your problems.

[Centurion1]

True you could do that as well a very valid point. Still i think best long term solution is to let rebel and then kill 20000 or so, (plus you get money) :laugh4:

[Barry]

Haha yes, money money money... That sorted them!

[Centurion1]

HA a sure fix solution to any problem. And i actually went ahead and disabled the superfactions so a roman civil war was available at the beginning. Thanks for the idea Barry, very entertaining to take on the spqr and two roman families with nothing but 4 generals and half a stack!!!!!