be friendly don't fight

[theadept]

ever tried playig entirely peacefully.
i sometimes do a goals campaign and completing the goals by bribing
but ive never done a completely peaceful campaign
sooooo....
...have you ever managed to campaign peacefully?

[theadept]

okay it is a little odd for TOTAL WAR

[DisruptorX]

Yes, I play defensive campaigns, they are enjoyable. I like being able to spend all my money on upgrading my cities. Then, when I get invaded, its always a tough fight to expell the invaders.

[KyodaiSteeleye]

depends what you class as peaceful - if not attacking, then kinda, if no wars, then impossible, as some AI faction or another will always declare war on you sooner or later.

d.

[Procrustes]

I’d have to second that last comment. No game of MTW is ever “peaceful”, but I often play a less aggressive GA game. But even if you don't pick a fight, sooner or later someone will pick one with you. And I'm not above striking preemptively if I see a bunch of troops, agents or ships massing on my borders. Otherwise I like to see what branches the AI may take with the other factions, I like to keep the game going long enough to see some of the more advanced units, I like to try to establish trade networks, and I think it’s a little more challenging if you don’t rush in the first turn. Personally, I really start to loose interest once I’ve become a super-power – I’m not so interested in the end game.

[Adrian II]

But even if you don't pick a fight, sooner or later someone will pick one with you. And I'm not above striking preemptively if I see a bunch of troops, agents or ships massing on my borders.Any of you familiar with the term glacis in international relations? It's a simple concept: it means that if you take a defensive posture in order to protect what you have, you always feel the need to add one extra defensive layer, also known as glacis in French geostrategical terms. I noticed that when I played defensively in MTW, it worked exactly like that. I would try to be a good boy and stay on speaking terms with my neighbours, my competitors in trade and even that insufferable twit in Rome, but all the time I would be eyeing this or that adjacent province which, if it belonged to me, would make my border defenses so much more adequate, my trade just that little bit safer in view of my competitor's expanding fleets, etcetera. In other cases my motivation would be of an internal nature, e.g. the fact that my leaders were acquiring all the lazy vices for sitting still during their entire adult lives. No matter what, sooner or later I would throw caution to the wind and attack someone else for no other reason than that they might become a threat in the future. It's like a crash course in geopolitics really. Thank heavens in modern-day democracies there are other forces at work, too, but beneath the surface I think the same principle still drives a lot of today's international power politics. Who'd have thought eh?:bow:

[solypsist]

exactly. in my case, i would defend successfuly and then of course be faced with a very open and undefended enemy province, so...



glacis

[Louis VI the Fat]

Brilliant analysis, Adrian. I glacisized my way through my only defensive campaign, almost against my will.

I played a peaceful English GA game, abandoning France and trying to limit myself to the British Isles and a lot of crusading in the Middle East.

I found that there was always a good 'strictly defensive' reason to grab another province or so: Flanders, because I needed to prevent the countless invasions of Wessex; Malta, because I 'really needed' a Mediterrenean naval base; Sicily, to stop the Sicilians building up their fleets constantly etc. etc.

In the end, I found myself fighting pre-emptive campaigns against the french in Spain and Scandinavia to prevent them from becoming to powerful.

All strictly rational and in my best defensive interest, but it had little to do with playing a peaceful campaign anymore...

[Adrian II]

Malta, because I 'really needed' a Mediterrenean naval baseGood point, I believe there is actually something like a 'psychology' of Malta. It's such a dainty little island, you see, and more often than not the Sicilians have retreated before the Italians and Malta is all they have left. So... easy pickings. Besides, an amphibious landing on Malta is a nice little challenge. I love a good, messy fight on those rolling hills with the thick woods. Afterwards it's easily controlled (you bring a bishop and a few spies along with your invading force) and it's a great forward naval base in the Mediterranean which -- so you tell yourself -- you will use only to produce ships for your trade. Then you start raising troops there as well -- of course you do so only in order to get the Knights for your Crusades. Crusades which, by the way, you embark on only out of a superior Maslowian desire to end up civilized by the year 1453. But if you build for Knights on Malta in order to eventually fight, say, the Byzantines who stand in the way of your Crusader goals, you might as well take one of their Mediterranean islands and start raising additional Infantry or Archers there. Result: you invade Rhodes or whatever, pre-emptively of course and with the best of intentions. All in the name of world peace, God's paradise, the brotherhood of mankind and the benefit of the gene pool.

Yeah right... hahaha! :duel:

[The Tuffen]

I've only tried a game where i don't attack catholic factions when im the english. Unfortunatly it doesn't last long and i wipe the french out

[Sir William Wallace]

i've tried peacful campaigns, however they dont last more than a few turns, u will always be invaded at some point

[JAG]

Peaceful Campains in total war? You have to be havign a laugh.

[EatYerGreens]

depends what you class as peaceful - if not attacking, then kinda, if no wars, then impossible, as some AI faction or another will always declare war on you sooner or later.

d.

I think this is what he meant. 'Peaceful' only in the sense that you don't initiate any wars yourself, you wait until attacked and then attack back.

Whether he extends this to only taking back whatever territories you have lost or whether a single attack justifies total takeover of the aggressor's territory, I can't guess. Certainly you can't expect to 'win' the game without expansion of some kind.

I can see that it might be possible to last through the game until the 'ending date', with just your starting provinces (but with the addition of a trading fleet maybe) but I have to say that I'd get pretty bored with fighting battles on the same territories over and over again for the entire game.

On the other hand, even with my limited experience of MTW to date, I've fought twice in one province and I swear it was a different terrain the second time around.

I like the change - compared to STW - whereby the starting area is sometimes halfway up the map and over to one side, instead of always at the bottom edge. Gives a fair bit of variety and sometimes you may have to march your army wholesale to a better position, when defending.

[Procrustes]

glacis

Excellent observation! Yeah, that's me most of the time.

I have noticed that the AI will get into an arms race with you, too. I mean, I'm sitting there playing a "defensive" game and I start thinking: "You know, I really need to shore up my defensives on that border or the XXX are going to attack." So I start building troops. Then they start building troops. So I build some more, and on it goes until one of us attacks the other. (Often I start getting worried about my budget, and I attack first.) More recently I've been buiding my armies a province back and assasinating any agents that come their way - seems to be a lot less provocative.

[Count Alfred von Schlieffen]

Each time a launch a new campaign, I make a solemn vow. I will be honorable, preferring defense above attack, and making money by alliance, trdae and agricultural improvements. I will always obey the pope (when playing Catholic). In a battle, I will take prisoners and treat them honorably. I will not senselesly slaughter them, not ven when the fight is going against me. I will build my empire as peacefully as possible, only invading Islamic countries. I will work together with other Catholic factions to keep away the armies of Islam, Crusading against the Egyptians and the Turks and helping the Spanish and the Navarrese keeping the Almohads at bay. I will use subterfuge rather than open force to reach my goals....

....But as the game progresses, I always, in the end, become a vicious, treacherous, expansionist bastard, who gladly breaks alliances with Catholics, sticking up his middlefinger to be Pope's excommunication threats, who loves to push the 'kill prisoners' button during battles, send my assassins after poor defenseless enemy princesses, cackles madly at the utter destruction of my foes, terrorises newly conquered peoples with heavy taxes, bloody oppression and inquisition, and changes allegiance at every opportunity, to ally with a powerful faction to destroy the weak one, to whom I at first appeared to be the closest friend.

I so love this game. :pimp:

[Adrian II]

....But as the game progresses, I always, in the end, become a vicious, treacherous, expansionist (..)You bet! Pray tell us, Your Excellency, at what point in your campaign exactly does your inner Mr Jekyll start growing the claws and funny hair? This is a matter of the utmost importance. There is a moment, isn't there, when you have to admit that this clean, carefully protocolled exchange between you and your computer is getting bloody personal and you are almost ashamed of yourself for sitting there hunched behind your little screen sniggering, foaming at the mouth and adressing unspeakable curses to a bunch of mere pixels. This is also the point where your attitude becomes inexplicable to your significant other(s) and you are rewarded with soothing words, glasses of brandy and lots of quality time.:mellow:

Again, what would be the exact point where it becomes personal?

[Count Alfred von Schlieffen]

When my armies are growing, when my income is rising, and I see how insignificant and pitiful my neighbours are becoming compared with me.... When I am able to hire lots and lots and lots of mercenaries and I just have to have a need for them... can't let al these Khwarazmian Cavalry units, Highland Clansmen, Jinettes etc. just sit there doing nothing, eh?
.... When I help Spain geeting rid of the Almohads and the Spanish then treacherously invade my province, ungrateful dogs!
....When there's a fleet of another faction sitting next to my fleet in a sea region. Sorry, it just looks ugly and annoying. I just have to send that fleet to the sharks.
......When there's just too much Priests, Alims and Inquisitors running around in my provinces. I have to kill kill kill all of them!
.... When I see my enemy's empire is becoming bigger than mine! :furious3: I send in a enormous army of spies to split that empire up in a chaos of rebellions, and then invading what's left!

I can go on and on, I think. But I am hungry and I need to buy food and do homework. I do have a life you know? Don't you? :mickey:

[Adrian II]

I do have a life you know? Don't you? :mickey:Well, it all depends... I guess, you know... in a sense...
Oh alright, I do have a life! I admit it!
You happy now?

Sheesh...

[theadept]

in fact by peaceful i mean starting no fights
buying a province is another matter
or invading an empty one

[Boris of Bohemia]

Ten reasons why it's hard to stay peacful:


1. Empire x is falling to pieces right in front of your door, so if you don't take your piece of it now, that's just giving it away to your rivals, right?

2. Their chapterhouse is there. ooooh you want to wreck that, don't you?

3. Since they are excommunicated, it would be kind of like holy and righteous to destroy them, right?

4. flanders/constantinpole/venice/etcetera is right next door. Just this once it is acceptable to attack. Then I vow to be peaceful.

5. They cannot manage that iron province properly. It's going to waste. I'll take it, then be peaceful.

6. All I need is just one province to make Jinettes. Then I will be peaceful. And, don't forget Huscarles, Avars, Bulgars, steppe heavies, Gallowglasses, and Clansmen. Then I really mean it, peaceful all the way.

7. I'd have a shorter border if I took province x. Then it would be so much easier to be peaceful. Attack.

8. They own my GA goal. My peaceful GA playstyle allows agression in these rare cases, then back to peace immediatley. Right after I capture their most advanced production center too, in the interest of future peace of course.

9. I overbuilt my army. Too hard to disband. Must try out these flashy Janissaries.

10. Build build build, manage manage manage, deter deter deter... Screw it, start a war.