Religion going up

[AxelThorn]

What can I do to lower my religion (from the catolics churches present in nearby provinces) rating in my provinces. I am not that kind of daymio. I don't need gunners.

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In the name of Saint Andrew ! Believe and the wings of war shall be your guardian. God speed my sword, make my rage against my enemies my power. Bless the land that has borned me, for wich I chose to stand untill the last drop of my blood, for wich I have allowed my tears to run free, for wich I have only love in my soul. Purify my soul God, allow me to be the one that rises in the blaze of glory, and let again victory be mine.

[Ithaskar Fëarindel]

Building Buddhist temples helps increase Buddhism, and if the Chritstianity gets too high placing Shinobi in a province will stop it revolting.

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Fëa-Quendi

[Ferocious Imbecile]

Quote Originally posted by AxelThorn:
What can I do to lower my religion (from the catolics churches present in nearby provinces) rating in my provinces. I am not that kind of daymio. I don't need gunners.

[/QUOTE]

It's good to see that you don't like guns...in all of Kurosawa's movies, there's this subtext that guns are impure, a violation of the samurai code, cowardly inventions. STW comes out and says this explicitly in the little video you get when you become Shogun. I've thought of muskets and esperimented with them on a custom game level. it would be nice having them on river defenses; 4 units of YS and 12 units of muskets would almost certainly make mince meat out of anyone foolish enough to attempt storming the bridge. But so what? Archers are so much more cool. I love watching the trajectory of the arrows and hearing the agony of their targets as they get pounded into the mud.

[AxelThorn]

Thanx.

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In the name of Saint Andrew ! Believe and the wings of war shall be your guardian. God speed my sword, make my rage against my enemies my power. Bless the land that has borned me, for wich I chose to stand untill the last drop of my blood, for wich I have allowed my tears to run free, for wich I have only love in my soul. Purify my soul God, allow me to be the one that rises in the blaze of glory, and let again victory be mine.

[AxelThorn]

You are more than right. And it is not only the bushido it is also the case of the crossbow wich was first condemned by the pope when it first appeared. I am not a fan of the gunners, in no case. I like my SA and CA more than any musk or archebusiers. I hate them. When I play with the AI I charge them first for this only reason.

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In the name of Saint Andrew ! Believe and the wings of war shall be your guardian. God speed my sword, make my rage against my enemies my power. Bless the land that has borned me, for wich I chose to stand untill the last drop of my blood, for wich I have allowed my tears to run free, for wich I have only love in my soul. Purify my soul God, allow me to be the one that rises in the blaze of glory, and let again victory be mine.

[Koga No Goshi]

From a historical standpoint and for Single Player modes, I totally agree with you guys. Unfortunately, most of us had to learn not only to use guns, but to use them almost the point of relying on them completely to compete in original STW online play. There were big debates around here back then about it because lots of times entire battles came down to who destroyed the other guy's gun line first. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif



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Koga no Goshi

"Hokusai"
Now as a spirit
I shall roam
the summer fields.

[Katasaki Hirojima]

Personally I love guns, historically. THey brought a downfall to those damn mightier-then-you samurai and knights, all of whom weren't so noble. Theres nothing great about samurai to me, I admire the Ashigaru in the field, trying to survive far more then some fat Samurai saying how great he was and how this and that were honorable or not. If things work you use them, you go against your very human nature to try and keep useing sticks and stones because its more "honorable" then lasers and tanks.

If they wanted to do something really honorable and noble they'd just stop fighting, find who among them was most competent as a leader, not a tyrant, and unite Japan under through common sense.

I hate backward people. I really do. Now..in the game, guns can unbalance things for me..I really do suck at useing them..LOL

Sorry for the rant!

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"I maintain none the less that Yin-Yang Dualism can be overcome. With sufficent enlightment, we can give substance to any distinction: Mind without body, north without south, pleasure without pain. Renember, enlightment is a function of will power, not of physical strength."- Shang-ji Yang, essays on mind and matter.

[Ferocious Imbecile]

Quote Originally posted by Katasaki Hirojima:
Personally I love guns, historically. THey brought a downfall to those damn mightier-then-you samurai and knights, all of whom weren't so noble. Theres nothing great about samurai to me, I admire the Ashigaru in the field, trying to survive far more then some fat Samurai saying how great he was and how this and that were honorable or not. If things work you use them, you go against your very human nature to try and keep useing sticks and stones because its more "honorable" then lasers and tanks.

If they wanted to do something really honorable and noble they'd just stop fighting, find who among them was most competent as a leader, not a tyrant, and unite Japan under through common sense.

I hate backward people. I really do. Now..in the game, guns can unbalance things for me..I really do suck at useing them..LOL

Sorry for the rant!

[/QUOTE]

The constant warfare of STW is deeply distressing to me, and it's a tribute to the realism of the game that I feel guilt when I'm forced by financial and external pressures to invade and fight a worthy neighbour. But if you look at Japan's position in the world, isn't this necessary? By competing ruthlessly to find their ultimate ruler, doens't this provide them with ultimately the strongest, the most ruthless, and intelligent ruler? The best player of the great game? And hasn't this served them well in history? Doesn't it still serve them well today? All the elite of Japan in finance, science and politics are descended from the samurai class. It's human destiny that it should be so. An unskilled idiot behind a gun is unworthy to defeat a courageous man who has patiently studied to be a master swordsman or spearman or horseman.

[Koga No Goshi]

Quote Originally posted by Katasaki Hirojima:
Personally I love guns, historically. THey brought a downfall to those damn mightier-then-you samurai and knights, all of whom weren't so noble. Theres nothing great about samurai to me, I admire the Ashigaru in the field, trying to survive far more then some fat Samurai saying how great he was and how this and that were honorable or not. If things work you use them, you go against your very human nature to try and keep useing sticks and stones because its more "honorable" then lasers and tanks.

If they wanted to do something really honorable and noble they'd just stop fighting, find who among them was most competent as a leader, not a tyrant, and unite Japan under through common sense.

I hate backward people. I really do. Now..in the game, guns can unbalance things for me..I really do suck at useing them..LOL

Sorry for the rant!

[/QUOTE]

Mm... I don't think anyone said the samurai or knights were unquestionably better or more honorable than everyone else. From a strictly warrior-honor point of view, though, it is true that a one on one hand to hand fight is much better than poking your gun out of a trench and shooting wildly in the general direction of the enemy. People thought so 600 years ago and many still think so today. The practicality of ridding ourselves of guns was not the issue. No one was advocating that. Isn't it possible you're romanticizing the "little guy" a bit as well? Don't forget that most tyrants murdered, connived, and backstabbed their way up from obscure beginnings. Look at Toyotomi Hideyoshi, started off as a peasant born in a thatch hut and became one of the most feared tyrants in all of Japanese history, largely via his embrace of the use of guns. Once in power he even had all people of non-samurai blood stripped of all weapons so that they could no longer defend themselves from the absolute overlordship of the samurai class, and he had been a peasant once! You should study up on history a bit before you run off crusading about how guns helped the noble little guy overthrow the evil rich tyrants.

Ahem. Back to gameplay. Guns have a purpose and sometimes are extremely useful. But when I am fighting a difficult battle against an enemy using guns in their army intelligently (AI or human), I can very much sympathize with the frustration samurai in the mid/late-1500's must have felt, or the frustration knights who'd spent their whole life studying melee weaponry felt when crossbows were invented. It's frustrating to see troops you trained longer, paid more for, and went to more effort to be able to produce get mowed down in heaps by cheap gun units of peasants.



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Koga no Goshi

"Hokusai"
Now as a spirit
I shall roam
the summer fields.

[kamizaki_nurizeko]

guns are nothing but a useful tool to me, only using them when no other advantage shows itself...and as for ashigaru in general i just dont use them, there unreliable and peasants, and peasants of feudal japan were kept of out wars and civil upheaval, apart from those few who recruited them into there armys....i rely souly on samurai...they were born, trined, and armed for the job at hand and personally christianity has no place in parts of the world it doesnt belong, thats why in the game i hunt down christian daiymo like a pack of wolves...so in conclusion, guns and ashi suck but samurai and guns are okay...christianity is a viral religion and should be confined to the europe it came from...and those people who rely soley on guns are weak and can be defeated over and over if you carry the right army.

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The bell rings against a hollow sky; the raven caws...NO MERCY!...all samurai walk the path to nothingness.~Kuroi Sabato

[Ferocious Imbecile]

Quote Originally posted by kamizaki_nurizeko:
guns are nothing but a useful tool to me, only using them when no other advantage shows itself...and as for ashigaru in general i just dont use them, there unreliable and peasants, and peasants of feudal japan were kept of out wars and civil upheaval, apart from those few who recruited them into there armys....i rely souly on samurai...they were born, trined, and armed for the job at hand and personally christianity has no place in parts of the world it doesnt belong, thats why in the game i hunt down christian daiymo like a pack of wolves...so in conclusion, guns and ashi suck but samurai and guns are okay...christianity is a viral religion and should be confined to the europe it came from...and those people who rely soley on guns are weak and can be defeated over and over if you carry the right army.

[/QUOTE]


The next time I see a priest wandering over my domain, you know a ninja is going to get him.

[Koga No Goshi]

Quote Originally posted by Ferocious Imbecile:

The next time I see a priest wandering over my domain, you know a ninja is going to get him.[/QUOTE]

At least it's a relief that in real life history, the persecution of Christians started in the samurai era resulted in Christianity never getting any real foothold over the population (except for EXTREMELY TINY groups). Sounds horrible to say, but it is nice to know the Christian missionaries / conquistador forerunners got back what they gave for once http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif



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Koga no Goshi

"Hokusai"
Now as a spirit
I shall roam
the summer fields.

[Katasaki Hirojima]

" By competing ruthlessly to find their ultimate ruler, doens't this provide them with ultimately the strongest, the most ruthless, and intelligent ruler? The best player of the great game? And hasn't this served them well in history? Doesn't it still serve them well today? All the elite of Japan in finance, science and politics are descended from the samurai class. It's human destiny that it should be so. An unskilled idiot behind a gun is unworthy to defeat a courageous man who has patiently studied to be a master swordsman or spearman or horseman."

The best ruler? YOu mean Tokugawa, the guy who made Japan into a backwater speck on the end of the world. A land of suffering, corruption and total control? Perhaps not all phesants were good, but they weren't all bad either. These samurai wer very backward people who of course wouldn't let go of power to something as terrible as "democracy" or something like it.

Yes, thats right. It was the Samurai who caused all the pain and suffering. They were the ones who started the onin wars. Brought down the old order. Then rebuilt it, just as bad as before. Nothing had changed, just a senseless period of bloodshed to find the best killer to put up on the throne.

BTW< I liked how often you used the word "Ruthless" Its very fitting of what kind of people they were.

I dunno, perhaps wanting peace and prosperity is a bad thing, I dunno, you tell me. Also, back then the ONLY KIND of little guy that could make it to the top was the heartless, ruthless and mean kind. If there wasn't a group of backward "nobility" capping off any chance of good, smart, intelligent pheasants gaining any power. The fact is Samurai did nothing to earn their title as superior-to-you. Genetics care very little for social standing. I hate the feudal system, it caused pain and grief, it didn't solve it. So don't even begin to suggest it was anything good.

It was eventually the phesants, in the meiji restoration, that brought Japan back from the brink of being consumed by a modern world. The Samurai and shogunate had throughly screwed things up. Life was miserable back then, and you shouldn't deny it. Even with the Meji resotration, power had only been returned to a less mean hearted ruler, who eventually gave rise to the men who started WW2. IT STILL took "Barbarian" intervention to turn Japan to a proper democracy in the 50's*!!!*. And STILL that country suffers from political coruption! I'v no respect for Samurai. Perhaps they did write pretty poetry, but they did so with bloody hands.


" At least it's a relief that in real life history, the persecution of Christians started in the samurai era resulted in Christianity never getting any real foothold over the population (except for EXTREMELY TINY groups). Sounds horrible to say, but it is nice to know the Christian missionaries / conquistador forerunners got back what they gave for once "

You should take a loong look at that picture of Christian -Not monks, but Phesants!!- being burned alive on stakes. YOu can see a couple kissing before being burned alive. Its one of the saddest things, I as a christian, have seen. I know there is much worse, and fortunately I'v not seen its depiction.

heh, Koga, I sense you dislike my religon. "A relife?". So much Christian bashing gos on today, I'm starting to wonder when you people will start burning us at the stakes again.

[This message has been edited by Katasaki Hirojima (edited 10-24-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Katasaki Hirojima (edited 10-24-2002).]

[Ferocious Imbecile]

Quote Originally posted by Koga No Goshi:
At least it's a relief that in real life history, the persecution of Christians started in the samurai era resulted in Christianity never getting any real foothold over the population (except for EXTREMELY TINY groups). Sounds horrible to say, but it is nice to know the Christian missionaries / conquistador forerunners got back what they gave for once http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[/QUOTE]


Check out Ted Johnson's History of Christianity pub.by Penguin Paperbacks. The Protestants were able to sabotage all the Catholic efforts of converting the Japanese by revealing to the Shogun a secret the Catholics had been keeping; the cross. Seems that the worst criminals in Japan were crucified and if the Shogun saw that the prime symbol of the Christians was the cross he would think it was a criminal cult from the gutter.

[Ithaskar Fëarindel]

This can go into History...

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Fëa-Quendi