View Full Version : Most influential person in history?
Mount Suribachi
10-06-2002, 13:00
This was inspired by the book "A short history of Byzantium" by John Julius Norwich.
On page1, chapter 1 he says this
"Constantine I, Emporer of Rome. No ruler in all history has ever more fully merited his title of "the Great"; for within the short space of 15 years he took 2 decisions, either of which alone would have changed the future of the civilised world. The 1st was to adopt christianity as the official religion of the Roman empire. The 2nd was to transfer the capital of that Empire from Rome to the new city which he was building on the site of old Byzantium and which was to be known, for the next 16 centuries, by his name: Constantinople. Together, these 2 decisions have given him a serious claim to be considered - excepting only Jesus Christ, the Buddha and the prophet Mohammed - the most influential man in all history."
And that really got me thinking....hmmm, was Constantine the Great the most
influential man in all history..?
Using his rules - no Jesus Christ, Buddha or Mohammed (cos we all know it's Jesus don't we children http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif ) who do you nominate as most influential person in history - with a short
description why as well please
My only Caveat is - think hard and think good! Anyone from the last 200 years has to have a good case IMH, simply becos their impact on history is over a relatively short span
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We speak of deep night, deep autumn; when I think back to the year 1943 I feel like saying "deep war"
Ilya Ehrenburg
The Black Ship
10-06-2002, 19:19
Well then since we don't want religious icons, how about the man that started it all by hearing voices. Abraham is the father of so many religions/cults/sects he has to be given serious consideration.
queen elizabeth of england.
it was under her rule that england, after defeating the spanish armada, went from a minor to a global power. allowing the english to completely steal 2 continents [n. america and australia] and establish provinces all across the globe. even though this forum has worldwide membership, we all speak english to communicate here.
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indeed
Sjakihata
10-07-2002, 00:14
Yes, we speak english here only because we are too dull ot be bothred speaking chinese, which are the language spoken by most people...
I like to think that some old philosopher who defined norms and deed that are followed even now are the most influential simply because we all follow them... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
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*bows* - Power to the Sultan!
Clan Seljuk
Emperor Theodoripiklos IV
10-07-2002, 05:45
Karl MArx http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Hakonarson
10-07-2002, 08:41
Eve
Forward Observer
10-07-2002, 10:59
My vote goes for Guttenberg, and the invention of the first practical printing press.
How else would the world have progressed as fast as it did with out the printed word
available to just about anybody.
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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.
[This message has been edited by Forward Observer (edited 10-07-2002).]
Rosacrux
10-07-2002, 12:55
Aga Baga Huga - the cave man who invented the wheel. It's the same cave man who invented fire. Something like an Eddisson of his times http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Seriously, though:
Actually, it's Aristotle. The whole western way of thinking is based upon his pragmatic approach.
this is an Aristotelian world, you know. The way we think, the way we interprete things, the way we act - all is perceived after Aristotles teachings.
Sjakihata
10-07-2002, 14:48
Just like I suggested...
Swoosh So
10-08-2002, 15:56
Tony Blair... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
Stephen Hummell
10-09-2002, 05:55
That dude who stoped varus in the german woods.
that would be 'herman the german' better known as arminius
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indeed
stilicho
10-09-2002, 11:44
the guy who put the 3rd ply on toilet paper
Protoman
10-11-2002, 22:31
Thinking on more recent terms.. The world would be a VERY different place if Gavrillo Princip hadn't shot Franz Ferdinand in 1912.
SO many things were warped because of the outbreaks of WW1 that it boggles the mind to think what it would be like without.
That is more of an influencial event though, Gavrillo himself doesn't deserve the credit.
In terms of single persons who have shaped the world to what it is today... THere are too many to list. THe world is too complicated to narrow it down to a single person.
Emperor Theodoripiklos IV
10-12-2002, 00:27
Nope WWI would have had strated even without the shooting of the crown prince...the Hapsburgs where itching for war..because they knew serbia was weak at the time because of the 2 balkan wars it fought and was not ready to fight (even though they kickd the austrians in the butt...i took german troops to finaly beat the serbs)
The Hapsburgs did not want to wait because they feard in a year or 2 it would be the serbs attacking them...plus they feard a grand uprising in Bosnia...so they were desperate in trying to find a reason for the war.
In addition every country in Europe was itching for war http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
But back to the topic...I still stand with Karl MArk http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
No real reason...i just like him
Mount Suribachi
10-12-2002, 12:29
Thanks guys, some good (and not so good!) answers. My initial 2 thoughts were Karl Marx and Martin Luther. However, Guttenberg replaces Luther in my thinking. The reformation would not have happened without the availability of the Bible in the "common" languages. Increased literacy (often driven by the desire to read the bible) took power out of the hands of the clergy and the noble classes (previously just about the only ones who could read and write). Larger scale literacy and ease of producing books enabled the explosion in learning of the last 500 years and led to tremendous social, political, economic and religious reform.
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We speak of deep night, deep autumn; when I think back to the year 1943 I feel like saying "deep war"
Ilya Ehrenburg
[This message has been edited by Mount Suribachi (edited 10-12-2002).]
I don't believe this! Wake up! The most influential person got to be Gütenberg...
No Gütenberg no books for the masses. No books for the masses we'd still be living in some kind of dark ages
Emperor Theodoripiklos IV
10-13-2002, 21:55
Did it perhaps occur to you that somebdoy els would have inveted the press even the same year aswell.
Not to mention that they already had printing press in China way befor http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Marx? Hmm yes he was influential but how about Fredrick Engels? Or we can go further back. How about Adam Smith with his "The Wealth of Nations"? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I stick to my Gütenberg
Adolph Hitler.
More people died due to his regime than any other.
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It's getting warm in here...that must be one hell of an INFERNO!
Zen Blade
10-15-2002, 07:07
In my day....
we often were amazed at... uh... what was I saying again...
I think, you have to consider "religious" ppl, not "deities" but original spreaders of religions, whether it is Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hindi, Buddhism, or some other religion.
Also, who ever emphasized education... The ppl who cam up with the great library, ppl who believed in teaching and thought. Those are always the originators of ideas, but they rarily inact them... Many a philosopher has failed b/c he can't relate to ppl..
That leads us to the natural leaders, the ppl who can speak to everyone and convey thought and purpose. That leads to ppl like Augustus, but even they can be easily stopped by military power... look at Genghis and his mongols or the huns....
In the end, the answer is simply no one person. Everything runs together to the point that no one person can be credited the most with regards to society or the world.
If you want to be more specifc, an answer may be possible. For example, who was the most important person of WWII... If we can get 1/3 of the ppl to agree on that, then maybe we can move on to something else...
I vote for Churchill, or maybe FDR... ohhhh... I don't know...
anyways, I vote for Aristotle based solely on the fact that in the western world his ideas were kept around for the longest (even though they were quite wrong)... But that is merely due to an influence of thought. I doubt anyone who couldn't read would know who he was. (which was most ppl between the greek times and the medievel times)
-Zen Blade
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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member, Retired
Derelict from an older age.
Emperor Theodoripiklos IV
10-15-2002, 08:13
Wrong mate not Adolf but Stalin.
That Bad boy had 20 milion of his people killed.
Youd be shocked to know that the russians treated the jews even worse then the nazis...they didnt even pretend thjey were gopnna deport them they just had them shot...monarchists they said
Well, you could argue that Hitler caused WW2. Now, forget the millions that the Nazis outright massacred. Add up all the deaths from all nations from all causes during that period, and it is an impressive sum.
Of course, the Japanese rape of China might beat it. What was it, 100 million? Forgive me if that's a bit high, but I don't recall clearly.
..
But really it is foolish to assume that Hitler caused WW2. WW2 was simply the aftermath of WW1 and the way the conquered Germans were handled-- being gravely drained and insulted but not actually shackled.
But one could still argue that WW2 was much more savage due to Hitler-- an argument I would agree with. With a competent German chief of state, Germany would have IMO, either through negotiation or military victories, reinstated itself as a power to be respected and left it at that. At the very least we can assume that Russia would not have ever been attacked without Hitler, and that was the most savage front of the European theater.
Japs still might beat 'em tho. And there the blame would rest mostly with the Japanese leadership's overzealous concept of foreign policy (i.e. severe immaturity)..
Del
Rosacrux
10-15-2002, 12:41
An interesting anecdote about politics, politicians, PCness and fate http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif :
you are about to vote for the world leader. There are three candidates.
The first candidate is corrupt and doesn't get off bed before getting the advice of his personal astrologist. He's got two mistresses and drinks 8-10 martinis a day.
The second candidate has been fired twice, sleeps till noon, smoked opium for years and is still an obsessive smoker and drinks a bottle of scotch every night.
The third candidate is a known war hero, a vegetarian, never had relationships outside a wedding and he only occasionaly drinks a beer or two.
which one would you pick and why?
Rosacrux I got that one on my mail one day. And choice number 3 cause he seemed most credible. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Rosacrux
10-15-2002, 15:18
Quite credible, indeed http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Mount Suribachi
10-15-2002, 21:33
Quote Originally posted by Rosacrux:
The third candidate never had relationships outside a wedding [/QUOTE]
Ummm, Eva Braun? He didn't marry her until just before he shot himself (and her)
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We speak of deep night, deep autumn; when I think back to the year 1943 I feel like saying "deep war"
Ilya Ehrenburg
Emperor Theodoripiklos IV
10-15-2002, 21:37
Yep candidate 3 is Hitler http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Made a good point there though http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Well, if #3 is Hitler, then who the hell are numbers 1 and 2??? I hope not anyone who has ever been a head of state!
Del
Rosacrux
10-16-2002, 11:58
Well...
#1 Is Franklin Delano Roosevelt himself, the best leader USA ever had (if you are a Democrat, at least http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif )
#2 Is Winston Churchill, nevertheless. One of the greatest leaders of the Old Albion and surely one of the most influental of the past century.
Makes you wonder... You know how these things are... nobody's perfect...
[This message has been edited by Rosacrux (edited 10-16-2002).]
Hirosito
10-16-2002, 12:10
zen_blade old wise man that cracks me up also the addition to your sig.
sorry it's simply the first time i've seen zen post with that new pic.
to the point of the post. so what if no3 is hitler, well more to the point it is not hitler it is someone with those characteristics which he happens to share with hitler. because no3 is not the full description of hitler but of course you all knew that.
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Hirosito Mori
Hirosito the Baptist of the Babbiest Babe Thread.
Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
I would say Muhammad (Peace be upon him), but since evidently prophets aren't allowed I'll say the guy who was mentioned in the first post, Constantius, either him or some french dude who invented democracy. (I know greeks had it first, but Athenian democracy and modern is two quite different concepts).
ICantSpellDawg
11-05-2002, 11:42
the most important man in history will either be the one who ends the entire world or the first man on his planet - excluding the men who may or may not live on other planets
I WIN - BAM
[This message has been edited by TuffStuffMcGruff (edited 11-05-2002).]
well, most influential - this is one to stay away from. Four or five perfectly valid choices in this thread, all indisputable depending on your world view.
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