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Hakonarson
11-05-2002, 08:24
Some figures from England:

Conscription rates 1345:

Wealth - to provide:
2 pound - 1 archer
5 pound - 1 mounted archer
10 pound - 1 Hobilar
20 pound - 2 hobilars
25 pound - 1 man-at-arms
30 pound - 1 MAA & 1 mounted archer
40 pound - 1 maa, 1 hobilar, 1 mounted archer
50 pound - 2 MAA
....etc (Revision of the Statute of Winchester in 1345 & 1346)

Original Statute:
40 pound land - serve as Knight
20 pound - man at arms
15 pund - mailed horseman (mounted infantry)
10 pound - infantry with aketon (padded cloth armour)
2-5 pounds - archers with bow, sword and knife
less than 2 pound - archers with bow and arrows only, or else sword, knife or whatever weapons they could provide.

Using this system the 37 counties raised 1407 men at arms, 5600 archers adn 5600 armati (mounted infantry) in 1339.

Pay rates: (per day)

1 pound - Prince (Paid to Black Prince in 1347
13s 4d - Duke
6s 8d - Earl
4s - Banneret or Baron
2s - Knight
1s - Esquire or Man-at-arms (other than those already mentioned - ie non-noble)
6d - Armati - armoured foot-soldier mounted on a horse for transport
6d - Hobilar or Hobilar-archer (the term means mounted archer with armour and was used early in the 100yrs war period) - sometimes only 4d or 3d - probably when serving without horses
6d - Mounted archer, or 4d if in England, although Cheshire or bodyguard archers received 6d always, and in the 15th c sometimes received 8d in France
3d - Archer, 2d in England but occasionally 4d elsewhere
2d - Welsh infantry or archer - probably lower pay due to total lack of armour.

These rates of pay are found in indentures of 1316, 1359, in contracts for troops under Henry V, and even in indentures drawn up for Edward IV's french expedition of 1475.

However with such static pay other inducements were sometimes offered - pay-and-a-half, or even double pay.

all from Armies of het Middle Ages Vol 1, The Hundred Years War, the Wars of the Roses and the Burgundian Wars 1300-1487, by Ian Heath, published by WRG.

This and it's companion Vol 2 (the rest of Europe and the Levant (Balkans, Turkey, etc)) are well worth the price!!

dclare4
11-05-2002, 10:00
Thanks for the useful info...

Gloucester

Rosacrux
11-05-2002, 16:17
Looks like a very interesting read... do you know where I can purchase it online without using my credit card (I never use CC online) for shipment in Greece?

Hakonarson
11-06-2002, 02:10
Rosacrux - no I don't.

I bought mine from Essex in England - it took 5 days to get here to NZ.

Their web site is http://www.essexminiatures.co.uk/

I guess you could ask them about payment options - how do you buy online without a CC anyway??

ShadesWolf
11-06-2002, 19:35
If amybody is interested, this site can convert old money into cuurent equialent values
http://www.eh.net/

Rosacrux
11-06-2002, 20:22
Hakonarson

Payment-on-delivery or however you call it, usually. I don't buy much stuff online, but in the boks department I have done it several times. Too bad, my regulars don't have those titles... Thanks anyway.


hhhmm... did some of the math in the site shadeswolf provided and looks like a 1347 pound equals to 550 today... I have to say I expected it to be more, but they surely know better.

so, with 22.000 pounds worth of land (that's 33.000 Euros or dollars, for us non-Brits) you had to serve as a knight? Funny... I am planning on buying an apartment and it's going to cost me about 180.000 euros... what should I serve as? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Rosacrux (edited 11-06-2002).]

Hakonarson
11-07-2002, 17:26
You'd be obliged to supply about 6 knights!!

I'd think the rate should be higher too - I men 2d in 1347 comes out as L4.66, but it's supposed to be a days pay for a WElsh archer - can you imagine anyone today getting paid that for a day?

I'd base the comparison more on 6d for a longbowmen being about what a skilled craftsman would earn - so what would a carpenter or bricklayer or plumber or electrician earn in a day these days?

In this part of the world he could expect to charge NZ$45/hr, or about L14, so an 8 hr day would cost you L112.

Based on this 1 pound in 1347 is more like 4500 pound today. So your 120,000 pound land comes out as 1 knight and 1 archer.

Rosacrux
11-07-2002, 19:05
Darn, I'll have to loose some weight in order to fit into an armor... or do they manufacture those thing in XL too? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Hakonarson
11-08-2002, 04:02
Armourers will make in any size these days - but expect to pay L3000 or more for a set of combat plate - my mate made one not so long ago for a contract at NZ$10,000, and I know some of the armourers from Lord of the Rings who'll do the same if you want!

Stainless steel costs a lot more tho!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

nokhor
11-08-2002, 06:52
does anybody know when the bubonic plague hit england and what that did to those pay scaled?

------------------
indeed

Hakonarson
11-08-2002, 07:29
The plague first hit England in 1348. At that time it killed up to 1/3rd of Europe's population according to some sources.

It remained endemic in England for 250-300 yrs, with the last major outbreak in 1666.

I don't know of any particular impact on the pay rates tho.

Jagger
11-08-2002, 09:51
I have read that pay rates for labor went up during the plaque years due to the labor shortage. I would think it probable that the same type of increase in compensation may have occurred with military troops.