Prisoners

[Malachus]

From what I can tell, CA didn't allow us to take prisoners this time around. Now, I personally don't mind, seeing as in MTW I always killed my prisoners.. thats what they got for challenging my authority. But, does anybody find the not being able to take prisoners a bad thing? Surely, it wouldve been cool to be able to negotiate prisoner exchanges in diplomacy.

[MiniKiller]

Never noticed that really lol but good point. Hopefully it will be addressed in a patch. If it comes down to be needing the $$$ i might let em live.

[Medieval Assassin]

I miss it, how they could get rid of good things I dont know, like good weather in shogun, and prisoners in MTW, why take 10 steps forward and still go 4 back?

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I miss it, how they could get rid of good things I dont know, like good weather in shogun, and prisoners in MTW, why take 10 steps forward and still go 4 back?
Yeap. I very rarely killed my prisioners. Always good to have a randsom reward for a great victory. However, I think I know why RTW doesn't have it. In Medieval times, most noblemen and their armies lived a lot of the battle's randsoms, specially when enemy nobles were involved. It was customary habit. Not so in Roman times.

[Colovion]

I ransomed all my prisoners when I needed the money - especially the Kings/Princes who would fetch a hefty sum. I really miss it. It was the first "This is missing" thing I noticed when I played the demo.

[ChaosLord]

It really depended apon the situation for if I killed them or not, but I agree it should be added back in. If not for troops at least for generals. The AI has so few of the guys to begin with and with their suiciding they need a way to get them back.

[King Azzole]

It would be cool if you can capture enemy generals and then try and force them to join your faction after the battle, or imprison them. You can then hold em prisoner and attempt to get them to join your faction every turn until they break and join or you ransom them back. Also would be cool to ransom enemy armies as well.

[Dead Moroz]

I'm deeply disappointed about lack of this feature in RTW. It could be one of the coolest sides of the game. Before the game release I really hoped that we would be able to enslave captured warriors because it was common in ancient times. Read ancient authors and you'll find many examples of such events! I don't understand why CA missed this feature. ~:confused:

In RTW we would have more opportunities of dealing with prisoners then in MTW.

1. Kill 'em all! ~D
2. Enslave and sell. This will bring you money and extra population in cities.
3. Give them back to their faction for ransom.
4. Just get back without ransom - to improve relationships with their faction.

Also there could be option to ransom only nobles/family members and kill or enslave other prisoners.

[Ulstan]

I miss this too :(

It made a lot more sense than in RTW.

In mtw, you beat an army, some are killed, many flee, many taken prisoner.

In rtw, you beat an army, they die to a man.

I sold enemy nobles for ransomed and ransomed back some of my own nobles too in mtw :)

[Satyr]

I don't miss it one bit. I mostly killed them all in MTW anyway. Besides, just think of the one that got away running back to the settlement and when you take it you can slaughter them and get your cash that way. Besides, I figure anyone my cav run over while trying to run away are run through and then I feel better about them not showing up as captured.

[LittleRaven]

In mtw, you beat an army, some are killed, many flee, many taken prisoner.

In rtw, you beat an army, they die to a man. Ok, I admit that I'm not a historian by any stretch, but I'm currently reading about the Battle of Cannae, and it sounds like the latter is closer to what happened than the former. Only a mere 3000 men were taken prisoner. Over 50000 were slaughtered. And Hannibal simply executed all the Roman prisoners anyway.

Much the same seems to have happened at Carrhae. Over 20000 dead, and while a large number were taken prisoner, none of the prisoners were ever seen by the Romans again.

What are some examples of prisoners being ransomed in ancient times?

[Oaty]

Ok, I admit that I'm not a historian by any stretch, but I'm currently reading about the Battle of Cannae, and it sounds like the latter is closer to what happened than the former. Only a mere 3000 men were taken prisoner. Over 50000 were slaughtered. And Hannibal simply executed all the Roman prisoners anyway.

Much the same seems to have happened at Carrhae. Over 20000 dead, and while a large number were taken prisoner, none of the prisoners were ever seen by the Romans again.

What are some examples of prisoners being ransomed in ancient times?

As for cannae
20'000 Romans survived that battle and made it back to Rome. Probably the routed cavalry and maybe the velite's/light auxillia are what made it back. anyways that's about 30 percent that lived so armies should'nt be disbanded but maybe thrown all the way back to your capital so it will take ages to get them back to the frontline wich would help represent a major defeat. That way you are'nt chasing a piddly army around.

The stats for Cannae was 70,000 Romans vs 40,000 Carthaginians/allies/mercanaries.

The result was Romans had 20,000 survivors and Hannibal had 30,000 men left so his army paid a price for that victory. And that could be the very reason he did not besiege Rome.


As far as Carrhae having a large number taken prisoner do you know if they were executed or enslaved or maybe both? If I recall correctly 10,000 Romans were taken prisoner.

[LittleRaven]

As far as Carrhae having a large number taken prisoner do you know if they were executed or enslaved or maybe both? If I recall correctly 10,000 Romans were taken prisoner.They were taken prisoner but they were not ransomed. None of them ever saw Rome again. It's suspected that Partia resettled them in the far East.

From the games perspective, that's as good as dead.

It's not that nobody ever survived ancient battles or that prisoners were never taken. But from what I've seen, the practice of taking and ransoming prisoners (very common during the Middle Ages) was almost unknown. If prisoners were taken, they were either killed (as Hannibal did) or enslaved somewhere were they could never make trouble again. Frankly, I suspect the former was much more common than the latter. So I can see why Rome doesn't have the option to ransom prisoners. It just wasn't done.

[LittleRaven]

Incidentally, I'm not sure that prisoners aren't still 'taken' in Rome. Remember in Medieval, if the enemy took prisoners but you won the battle you would get them back? Something similar happened last night.

I was playing as Carthage, attacking the Numidians. My hired horse mercs were stupid and routed almost instantly, but got hit by Numidian cavarly as they ran. They were killed almost to a man. (like 5 got away)

But I ended up winning the battle. Lo and behold, my mercs were back to 51 guys! Almost the whole unit was restored!

Now I know that not everyone who falls is 'dead,' and that some casualties can be recovered, but 80% of a unit seems a little extreme. So I wonder if they weren't 'taken prisoner' as per the old algorithm?

[Ulstan]

"Ok, I admit that I'm not a historian by any stretch, but I'm currently reading about the Battle of Cannae, and it sounds like the latter is closer to what happened than the former."

I've always understood that Cannae was quite the aberration.

Still, I wouldn't necessarily expect the men to be ransomed back (at least, not family members). But it would be nice to see, maybe, 1/3 of a defeated army live to fight another day, 1/3 die on the field, and 1/3 get captured as slaves or something :)

98% kill rate of defeated armies just seems a little ahistorical.

It's a sign that I like the game that I'm complaining about these relatively minor things. ;)

[LittleRaven]

98% kill rate of defeated armies just seems a little ahistorical.
Ah...I think that has more to do with the rather insane rate at which routed enemies are killed then the lack a of prisoner ransoming mechanism. As other have noted, routing enemies no longer die, they freaking evaporate. I saw 80 armored hoplites reduced to 5 in what must have been 2 or 3 seconds. Nobody has a chance to make it out right now. ~;)

[Medieval Assassin]

Well, if you want EVERYTHING totally on, then some factions should be so you cannot win with them, it would be nice to be able to make small decisiions like that, rather it happened alot of not... It happened some, theres not denying it, so I should be able to choose...

[LittleRaven]

It happened some, theres not denying it, so I should be able to choose...When did it happen? When was an army ransomed back? I honestly can't think of any occurances in this timeframe. (but then, I'm no historian....Calling EB folks, calling EB folks....)

[Inuyasha12]

Well it had to have happened, i mean people back then were human too and they gave up after the battle turned too much against them as well. Besides it would be a cool choice, at least to be able to choose. Maybe a setting that you could change, like have your troops capture prisioners or if you turn it off they will not.

At least they should be able to capture generals, they are too valuable to just kill off.. And that's just stupid. In mtw i mostly killed all prisioners but never the kings and princes/generals.

[LittleRaven]

Well it had to have happened, i mean people back then were human too and they gave up after the battle turned too much against them as well. Besides it would be a cool choice, at least to be able to choose. Maybe a setting that you could change, like have your troops capture prisioners or if you turn it off they will not.Oh, prisoners were taken, sure. But I can't think of any instance where they were ransomed. Most of the time they were just killed or enslaved. The same was true for generals, as far as I know. Rome was notorious for dragging captured generals through the streets. They certainly never ransomed them. Can any of our EB guys think of any instances of ransomed prisoners in the Roman timeframe?

[PFJ_bejazuz]

julius caesar was ransomed for 20 talents by cillician (sp?) pirates as a young officer returning from his first command

but these were folks who operated within a helenistic based culture

i'm not sure how many other cultures would think ransom a better option than putting a head on a stick & the kudos that would earn them within a 'heroic' society

so on the whole .. i'd guess that ransoming was such a minor occurance as to not warrant a gameplay option

there was pardoning but not ransoming during the roman civil wars

[metatron]

Well, the pirates weren't exactly a competing empire; they were thugs out to make a quick talent.

I'm sure if he had been a nobody, they'd have sold him into slavery and forgotten.

[Dead Moroz]

LittleRaven, maybe ransom was not very widespread in ancient (I'll check the books ~:) ) but slavery could be the good way of making money and increasing populations in RTW. And it's 100% correct.