View Full Version : Chariots vs Horses = BULLLLLL SHEEEEET
King Azzole
10-08-2004, 22:30
Ok this is pissing me off. TWICE in a row I tried to siege an egyptian city and TWICE in a row the goddamn horse chariots not only OUTRAN my general on horse back but killed him instantly upon touching him. THis is ALITTLE ridiculous I am so pissed at the amount of time ive wasted here. Its alittle absurd that chariots instantly kill all cavalry. The damn chariot ARCHERS even kill cavalry instantly. :furious3:
Colovion
10-08-2004, 22:34
It's even more stupid that chariots can catch up to horses - sure they're Heavy Cav, but Chariots would still be slower than Heavy Cav I'd think - though marginally.
I've had the same experience. I tried attacking chariots using everything I have. They cut down Eastern Infantry. They beat Persian cavalry. They beat Bedouin Archers and Warriors (both Camel units) and they beat Arab Cavalry. I attack them from behind and my cavalry do stupid stuff and won't charge them directly. They do stupid stuff like circling around and hesitating and reforming and all kinds of other stupid things. On the times they actually charged, I lost a lot of units.
Chariots obliterate everything. Even Cataphracts get cut down in bunches while charging them. It's not just the arrows either. Their melee capabilities are ridiculous, even the chariot horse archers deal way too much damage. Chariots are horribly overpowered right now. They needed a nerf way more than elephants did. At least elephants are expensive.
The only remotely cost effective way I've found to defeat is to shoot it up with them using horse archers. Even then, I take way too many losses to these guys.
It's also ridiculous how fast they move, especially on rocky ground. Even the H2 can't move that fast on rocky ground.
Face the Amazons. They are EVIL. Never trust a woman who rides in a breastplate in the snow.
the egyptian generals ahve the missile stats of the chariot archers, and the melee stats of the normal chariots. They're really deadly.
IIRC, two full units of hastati can take down an egyptian chariot in melee with (relatively) few casualties. Theykey is to get them stuck in the horde of soliders, so they can't pull that "run everyone over and knock them down" stuff.
Of course, trying to catch the egyptian generals with infantry is really problematic, especially since they shoot while moving. Best thing to do is set up a trap -- chase the generals with cav into a sitting infantry wall.
Easier said than done.
LittleRaven
10-08-2004, 22:58
The trick is just get the chariots to stop. Once stopped, anything and everything kills them almost instantly. But the only way I've found to stop them is to mire them in infantry. Which means trapping them, as Dorkus suggests.
And yes, it's a huge pain.
I forgot the most important point. The two (or more) units of hastati or other infantry should be ON TOP of each other. Yes, that's right, crowded into the same positoin .This seems to stop the chariot in their tracks. That will seem incredibly counter intuitive for an mtw player (given the severe crowding penalties), especially since chariots have an aoe attack. But having a thick mass of infantry seems to stop the chariots cold.
Once they're mired in the mass with 20 guys attacking them at once, they die rather quickly.
You can usually rout the chariots w/ minimal casualties using this method (assuming the chariots run directly into the mass).
Still very hard to get chariot archers to do this, however, without an elaborately staged trap.
Kommodus
10-08-2004, 23:21
Hm, I've heard this observation quite a few times now. What I find strange about it is that chariots were not exactly the most effective arm of any army during the game's time period. Their rule of the battlefield effectively ended when cavalry became widespread, if I remember correctly. Cavalry was faster and more maneuverable than chariots, and could sever the cart from the horses, rendering the chariot helpless. Chariots still had their uses, but were nowhere near the kings of the battlefield they had been prior to the Iron Age. Here's one link:
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Cavalry
Thus, during this time period, they should be in the twilight of their usefulness (even more so than the phalanx, in fact). Chariot archers could be a decent mobile ranged unit (inferior to horse archers, however), and scythed chariots could potentially tear through closely-packed infantry formations, but no chariots would be a match for decent cavalry. In close combat, chariots would also be at a severe disadvantage; even half-decent infantry could destroy chariots if they could close with them. They simply provide too large of a target to strike at; if either of the men or horses are disabled, the entire unit becomes useless.
I'm sensing this will be modified in a mod, along with other things.
DisruptorX
10-08-2004, 23:24
Yup, chariots were outdated, unmanoeverable, and easy to destroy.
Which is funny, because not only can they turn on a dime in RTW, but they can actually teleport short distances. :wall:
SQUARE FORMATIONS!!!!!!!!!!! so that no matter what side the chariots hit the infantry at, they get trapped in the carnage to come. Javelin skirmishers seem to be the best at keeping them out of the main battle with skirish off of course and make sure they are in a square formation in case they get a little to frisky.
King Azzole
10-09-2004, 00:04
UPDATE: I just had 2000 hoplites decimated in a city battle by 5 groups of chariot ARCHERS. They just ran right through my hoplites and disorganized and cut them down, and then to spit in my face they outran my general AGAIN and killed him instantly. I am so frustrated at this point im thinking of just bribing all the egyptians and just taking there lands so I dont have to deal with this BS anymore. I slaughter the romans head on, Pontis as well, Macedons? No problem. Dacians? Dead. Thracians? My vassels. Come the egyptians, stupid ass chariots annihilating me.
Well, I see severe balancing problems there, but still Azzhole,
a good player with a balanced Army would have won against them!
The AI is not bright at all, lure the Chariots in traps.
You probably have no Elephants, but they work well against Chariots - they work well against everything.
OK, I agree, the Chariots are strange and ridiculous, but do not give up, fight them!!!
Soulflame
10-09-2004, 00:55
UPDATE: I just had 2000 hoplites decimated in a city battle by 5 groups of chariot ARCHERS. They just ran right through my hoplites and disorganized and cut them down, and then to spit in my face they outran my general AGAIN and killed him instantly. I am so frustrated at this point im thinking of just bribing all the egyptians and just taking there lands so I dont have to deal with this BS anymore. I slaughter the romans head on, Pontis as well, Macedons? No problem. Dacians? Dead. Thracians? My vassels. Come the egyptians, stupid ass chariots annihilating me.
Umm.. Pontis can build Chariots and Chariot Archers too ~;p.
Yes, they really are a pain. So far the only thing that worked for me were o(w)nagers, obliterating about 4 with a carefully placed lop. And archers. The bad thing is, Chariots have about 4 hp, so they can get into danger, run over your guys, get a hit or 2, and run on. O(w)nagers ignore hitpoints.. and archers are nice because they can deal the damage from afar (before the chariots roll over them).
Phalangites are good too, but you need to get the chariots to charge them head on .. you could use a lure, but chariot archers usually won't bite (normal chariots do).
Chariots should really be slower then cavalry. They simply are heavier (more weight per horse), so they should be slower, or tire faster.
Well, in my battle in Memphis, the Egyptians' chariot archers had a longer stamina than my Bedouins, which are camel units.
Red Harvest
10-09-2004, 03:52
The chariots are rather non-historic, turn on a dime, and move at med cav speeds. There is an issue with the AI not running down skirmish units like this. Every time the chariots pause and shoot, the AI has your pursuer stop as well, pick their noses, scratch their ... then reform and start the chase again. :surprised: Light cav could catch them easily, except for this behaviour. They end up taking a bunch of losses and routing without ever making contact. They are not all that tough if you can pin them down, but it usually takes two units of cav to kill them on very hard. RTW rewards very fast units in ways that don't make much sense.
What I really "enjoyed" was watching the chariots go tearing through the woods. Hello, ever been through the woods, ridden horses through the woods off trail? It is not something you can do at high speed, unless you want to be draped across a low hanging limb without a bit of air left in your body. It has been a long time, but I haven't forgotten everything about riding horses. With chariots it would be worse. They would not navigate fallen timber like a horse and rider can. And the woods I've been in have their share of brush clumps and fallen timber. Imagine a chariot hitting a small deadwood tree trunk at RTW chariot speeds... "911, we have a rollover...no don't rush the ambulance, we cannot perform CPR, occupants appear to be headless."
If you want to kill chariots in a city, bring an elephant unit. Elephants are +8 vs. chariots while chariots get -8 vs. elephants.
Inuyasha12
10-09-2004, 04:03
Yeah while fighting egyptians my 4 units of legionary cav(wich took me two turns each to make!! ~:handball: ) where slaughtered by like 3 units of chariots. I though no problem my horses will cut them down. Nope not only did they successfully escape from my legionary cav, but they slaughered them as they routed afterwards. I won the battle because i was defending and the timer ran out!! If it wasn't for testudo formation my legions would have been swiss cheese.
fastspawn
10-09-2004, 05:46
i haven't actually faced down chariots yet, but from what i heard they sound monstrous.
Anyone has any idea, if i were to edit the unit files, how to balance the chariots? Like what stats to change to make them realistic?
The chariots are rather non-historic, turn on a dime, and move at med cav speeds. There is an issue with the AI not running down skirmish units like this. Every time the chariots pause and shoot, the AI has your pursuer stop as well, pick their noses, scratch their ... then reform and start the chase again. :surprised: Light cav could catch them easily, except for this behaviour. They end up taking a bunch of losses and routing without ever making contact. They are not all that tough if you can pin them down, but it usually takes two units of cav to kill them on very hard. RTW rewards very fast units in ways that don't make much sense.
What I really "enjoyed" was watching the chariots go tearing through the woods. Hello, ever been through the woods, ridden horses through the woods off trail? It is not something you can do at high speed, unless you want to be draped across a low hanging limb without a bit of air left in your body. It has been a long time, but I haven't forgotten everything about riding horses. With chariots it would be worse. They would not navigate fallen timber like a horse and rider can. And the woods I've been in have their share of brush clumps and fallen timber. Imagine a chariot hitting a small deadwood tree trunk at RTW chariot speeds... "911, we have a rollover...no don't rush the ambulance, we cannot perform CPR, occupants appear to be headless."
If you want to kill chariots in a city, bring an elephant unit. Elephants are +8 vs. chariots while chariots get -8 vs. elephants.
Well, it's not just chariots and other skirmishers. My bedouins, and to a lesser extent, other cavalry are also doing the stop, pick their noses, smell the roses, before charging again against routing hoplites, slingers, other infantry.
As for chariots, everything about them is unbalanced, overpowered and unhistorical. They have better offroad capabilities than the H2 and other modern SUVs, move as fast as medium cavalry and absolutely shred everything, infantry and cavalry as well. I think their stats need to be halved, for starters. That and they need to be slower than heavy cav, even cataphracts. Also, add a huge movement penalty in rough terrain.
It's the ultimate triumph of stupid mass market versus reality and any sense. Egypt in general is very powerful and these things are horribly overpowered.
King Azzole
10-09-2004, 06:50
yea can anyone tell me why some desert axeman wearing a skirt and holding a small square wooden shield has more defense value then a fully armored hastati, or even a regular hoplite? Plus its not even there defense skill thats high, its there "armor." ~:confused: Or why they have some of the longest range bowmen in the game and they come in hordes of 240 (huge setting)?
Red Harvest
10-09-2004, 07:05
yea can anyone tell me why some desert axeman wearing a skirt and holding a small square wooden shield has more defense value then a fully armored hastati, or even a regular hoplite? Plus its not even there defense skill thats high, its there "armor." ~:confused: Or why they have some of the longest range bowmen in the game and they come in hordes of 240 (huge setting)?
I am astonished with the axemen stats. They have a picture of shirtless guys and an 11 armour rating, WTF? I could understand high skill, but high armour? What do they have, giant nipple shields for their piercings? I intend to start a discussion thread on this...
Those 120 man bowmen are very powerful. I charge them using 2 horse archers or persian cavalry and I still take a lot of losses.
Mr. Juice
10-09-2004, 07:29
Egypt is just rediculous. From their 50% larger archer units that shoot down my men faster than a tactical nuke could, to the chariot archers that own everything they MELEE with, to the Axemen with insane stats. Oh, and lets not forget the chariots that outrun my light cavalry mercs. I buy up mercenaries before each battle (if I have money) and these are my 'throwaway troops' that chase after bowmen and chariots. Usually about 0-14 make it back from each unit :(
At least my more important troops don't have to deal with the crazyness as much.
well egyptian chariots would probably be able to out run, heavy cav.
since egyptian chariots were very very light.
ive seen them, very few of them survived because they were so light.
they are not very substantial.
thanks,
dessa
That's assuming the terrain is flat. A few bumps and the chariot should be riderless. I fought them in rocky ground near Antioch and they were at full speed. Also, the chariot archers are carrying 3 people which is more of a burden. They shouldn't be able to turn directions that fast, either.
King Azzole
10-09-2004, 07:52
If they turned that fast with 3 people on it they would all fly off. Physics people. Its called momentum.
How about this:
Lets make some modding suggestions or mod stats of units out of balance and post them in a separate "suggestions to RTW balancing for CA" thread
Thoros of Myr
10-09-2004, 11:12
I wouldent be opposed to removing them alltogether.
That's assuming the terrain is flat. A few bumps and the chariot should be riderless. I fought them in rocky ground near Antioch and they were at full speed. Also, the chariot archers are carrying 3 people which is more of a burden. They shouldn't be able to turn directions that fast, either.
Actually a chariot rode smoothly over bumpy terrain. This is considering the horse(s) were near full speed. Some guys built a chariot to Egyptian design and rode it on rough terrain and found that when the chariot is at full speed it just glides over the bumps giving a smooth ride. They even placed an archer on it who could shoot very accurately.
Now as far as turning speeds, woods and the time period that's the bad part.
Inuyasha12
10-09-2004, 16:09
Egypt is just rediculous. From their 50% larger archer units that shoot down my men faster than a tactical nuke could, to the chariot archers that own everything they MELEE with, to the Axemen with insane stats. Oh, and lets not forget the chariots that outrun my light cavalry mercs. I buy up mercenaries before each battle (if I have money) and these are my 'throwaway troops' that chase after bowmen and chariots. Usually about 0-14 make it back from each unit :(
At least my more important troops don't have to deal with the crazyness as much
Yeah i know! Thats why as brutti i stopped short of egypt, not only are they very hard to beat, but once you have their cities are near impossible to hold on to!!They come with huge culture penalties, and large amounts of squalor!!
But when you play as egypt its pretty damn fun too!! ~D
hotingzilla
10-10-2004, 09:50
If they turned that fast with 3 people on it they would all fly off. Physics people. Its called momentum.
That's very true. But the riders had metal straps that hung them onto the horse and the chariot.
Soulflame
10-10-2004, 11:09
That's very true. But the riders had metal straps that hung them onto the horse and the chariot.
Wow, so the Egyptians invented the first G-force simulator to train their units on the chariots how to deal with them?
Well, last night I faced the dreaded chariot archers again. To my surprise, my own scythed chariots (which were only 6 per unit, versus 12 per unit chariot archers), kept them busy and even destroyed an entire unit of chariot archers before being ridden down by the other one.
What was more amazing was that my light cavalry rode into a unit of archers, killed about 30 of the 120, got stuck, and were being killed by those archers at fast pace... I got them out and half of my cavalry survived, but this surprosed me a lot.
It's not really the fact that they get bogged down (because in all reason they should), but usually a group of archers would rout when losing 30 men in one blow (since it's usually almost half of their men), but because there are 120 archers in the Egyptian unit, they weren't even shaken I think ~:confused:.
Anyway, my first chariot archers as Pontus are now done, so I'm gonna see if I can 'exploit' them as well :devilish:.
I found that chariots get the crap kicked out of them in woods and arn't that fast. I was playing the Brits and had several chariot units attacking 2 warbands (I think one was swordsmen) in a heavily wooded area. The trees messed up their formation so bad that they rode into the bastards one at a time.
Also I had two Scythe chariots chase an enemy general around the map. The only way I was finally able to get was the really intiutive AI pathfinding (which does have its quirks). My chariots were chasing him around the edges of the map, and one chariot broke off and circled around when the general was aobut to turn at the corner. He was hit and slaughtered by my two Scythes.
Could it be that when you play on hard/very hard the chariots get bonuses to your troops?
I think that the egyptian chariots are different from the british chariots.
DisruptorX
10-10-2004, 16:09
Its not the British Chariots that are over-powered, its the Egyptians.
I figured you guys meant all chairots were overpowered.
Note: The Scythe Chairots are from my Seluciud campaign.
DisruptorX
10-10-2004, 17:13
I figured you guys meant all chairots were overpowered.
Note: The Scythe Chairots are from my Seluciud campaign.
With the combat speed mod on, chariots die like flies to hoplites, but the chariot archers are simply too fast and manoeverable, it looks dumb, and is aggravating.
I haven't founght against british chariots, but I used some, and they lost in a straight up fight after charging light infantry, so I don't think they are overpowered.
Bob the Insane
10-10-2004, 17:18
DisruptorX, I think I need to blame you for the destruction of half of the ruling family in my Egyptian game... ~D
Chariots are uber eh, I thought... Well lets see, I thought...
Charged a load of the in in a fight against rebels in the desert... Yes we won, and yes the chariots did a lot of damage...
But even general on the field fell in the fighting... ~:eek: ~:mecry:
~:joker: ~:joker: ~:joker:
I haven't founght against british chariots, but I used some, and they lost in a straight up fight after charging light infantry, so I don't think they are overpowered.I have, though after reading this thread and a few others when I saw the Britons had chariots my heart sank. So I sat on top of a hill (so MTW~;)) and waited. They made quick work of my cavalry auxillia (sp) but when they got into range of my archers they died. Also in HTH they weren't over powerful.
So they aren't uberpowerful, much to my relief as I have just launched my armies at the Britons continental holdings
I posted this elsewhere in another thread but it's relevant in this one :)
Chariots are powerful, but you have to know how to counter them. I have no problem defeating the Egyptians, even numbers, even outnumbered, battle after battle in the game (unless you are talking MP, that's not my issue). You just have to come to battle with the right stuff. Of course chariots are going to tear up armored hoplites - the hoplites can't get close enough to even smell them, much less touch them with those long pointy spears. Don't come crying that your hoplites are dying any more than Crassus cried at Carrhae at what Parthian horsearchers did to him :) The game calls them missile cavalry and for all practical purposes that's what they are. So you have to fight them as that. For the Romans against the Egyptians, that means having artillery and archers. My Roman armies fighting the Egyptians who bring alot of ranged units to battle always have two onagers, and at least 4, maybe 6 archers.
I've found that chariots die easily under archer fire. Put two auxila archers units firing on a chariot unit and it dies quickly - they just don't last long. There aren't alot of men in a chariot unit and they die like flies under archer fire. I concentrate fire on them first and take them out. Meanwhile my artillery is pounding the desert axemen who have to advance slowly on foot. And when the chariots are dead, my archers turn their attentions on them.
On medium, I routinely inflict losses on the Egyptian in a ration of between 5 to 1 and 10 to 1 in my favor. Best was 1260 Egyptians dead vs my 60. The Egyptians are pushovers if you combine units and tactics correctly.
Grifman
King Azzole
10-11-2004, 00:56
I dont care what you say, its BS when they can knock out 20 ARMORED hoplites in phalanx formation with one volley, and run down an entire phalanx and route em when in Phalanx as well. Its not generalship, trust me I am a very good general and can beat practically any army attacking me with minimal units. Its simply BS. Also , I just had 3 WAR ELEPHANTS killed by these ARCHER chariots. 1 of the elephants killed WHILE they were routing............
DisruptorX
10-11-2004, 01:18
I just played against the egyptains today, and man, what a load of crap.
In narrow streets, they are unbeatable, because they can weave and turn, while you can't get away. Yes, you read that right, weave and turn. Chariots can not only move through solid matter, but also teleport, and turn on a dime.
Here's a classic picture of the way that chariots are constantly moving around like ants.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/DisruptorX/antswarm.jpg
Here's a detail, where you can clearly see several chariots inside of each other.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/DisruptorX/antswarmdetail.jpg
Chariots are devastating in cities and against phalanxes, which is so bogus, I don't know where to begin.
The thing that most doesn't make sense is that their melee is because of their scythes. That means they should damage friendly units as well.
Soulflame
10-11-2004, 02:09
Check this thread out: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=37710
Apparently, those chariots have the same mass (and some few even more!) then elephants. And yet amazingly they are still as fast as cavalry and turn crazy fast.
Perhaps if this is modded, the chariots will be better... let's hope so.
LordKhaine
10-11-2004, 02:13
I was kind of confused at this thread until I got to the second page. Having only faced British chariots I viewed them as pretty fun, potentially lethal but usually not battle deciding and certainly not overpowered. Now I'm kind of scared to face Egypt! ~:eek:
Red Harvest
10-11-2004, 03:25
Wow, same mass as elephants with high speed and archery to boot. Not to mention they get multiple hit points.
solypsist
10-11-2004, 04:18
I've run over my own men, seen them fall down and disappear, and yet they don;t register as casualties when the battle is over (same with the unit heal) - one unit that was half mowed down by my general's chariot unit remained at full strength at the end of the fight!
chariots are teh hot
ChaosLord
10-11-2004, 04:27
They're strong, but not overpowered. The trick is to use infantry or cavalry with deep ranks, once they charge in they're surrounded. I've watched Egyptians charge into my deep formations then simply collapse halfway through. With how they're spread out they can't stop from easily being surrounded and killed when charging through units. So assuming you have it deep enough they should be easy. Of course, I play on huge unit sizes. Which means more chariots, but I can use deep formations easily. I'm not sure how many Chariots they get on normal but I think the same tactics would work.
But really, i've taken more losses from Desert Axemen/Bowmen units then Egyptians Chariots since I started using those tactics.
DisruptorX
10-11-2004, 04:39
They're strong, but not overpowered. The trick is to use infantry or cavalry with deep ranks, once they charge in they're surrounded. I've watched Egyptians charge into my deep formations then simply collapse halfway through. With how they're spread out they can't stop from easily being surrounded and killed when charging through units. So assuming you have it deep enough they should be easy. Of course, I play on huge unit sizes. Which means more chariots, but I can use deep formations easily. I'm not sure how many Chariots they get on normal but I think the same tactics would work.
But really, i've taken more losses from Desert Axemen/Bowmen units then Egyptians Chariots since I started using those tactics.
The problem is the way they move, its retarded. I have a problem with units teleporting short distances in and out of melee. This isn't Diablo.http://geocities.com/loganmacl/diablo/sorcerer.gif
They turn in circles in place like giant ants. Just watching them pisses me off.
King Azzole
10-11-2004, 04:58
To go alittle further its MOST egyptian faction units. For instance:
Bowmen: 240 men to a unit. Long range.
160 men to a unit. Armored and long range (pharoahs "guard" aka pharoahs assassins)
Infantry: Desert Axemen. Insane armor rating, PLUS bonus vs armored.
Nile spearmen. Phalanx just like any good ol Greek plus they have the infantry greek lacks.
Cavalry: Chariots, Massive 160 unit desert cavalry.
They are just tremendous ass kickers.
Suggestions:
Bowmen: Cut down the range. Or give the crossbows since they shoot that far. (JOKE) and slight raise in upkeep. 200 isnt enough for such superior archers.
Infantry: Lower desert axemans armor to 2 and raise there attack SLIGHTLY. Shield should also be lowered to 1-2. Its a friggin chessboard not a tower shield.
Cavalry: Increase Chariots turn radii, lower speed slightly, and reduce melee power, especially vs horses. That or increase build time to 2 turns, and increase upkeep and AIs desire to build them since they build those more than most units.
Egypt not only starts with all that but also has NO natural enemys. For this I suggest someone mod a Judean Faction to fight with them at first.
solypsist
10-11-2004, 05:03
in mtw there was a cav tactic where instead of charging the enemy, you had them run to a point immedietly behind the enemy unit - essentially charging through from front to back. does this work well for chariot attacks, too? or is it better to just charge normally?
I agree. I also believe that most Egyptians' units are too cheap for their stats. They're sending really huge armies at me and rebuilding them very easily. If they didn't have 40+ naval units sucking up around 4,000 denarii per turn, I'd have way more trouble than i had.
Dark_Magician
10-11-2004, 08:09
The only remotely cost effective way I've found to defeat is to shoot it up with them using horse archers. Even then, I take way too many losses to these guys.
It wouldnt help much, but one onager's fire shot takes 3 chariots ~;)
The_Emperor
10-11-2004, 12:07
Egypt are very overpowering, I played a campaign as them and man they have it good!
The Selucids cannot put up a good fight, even if your just using bowmen slingers and Spearmen, but those chariots level up very FAST in battle.
Like Elephants the chariots knock over your men as they run through them, this is one of the reasons why chariot archers are great for dealing with routers (even the Briton Chariots) because you can run through routers and knock them down and then shoot them down at will...
But I also found out that they are not invulnerable. Whenever my chariots hit some solid unbroken infantry they did die well. (generals often kicked the bucket in such a manner).
Also archer fire was bad for them, Horse/camel archers and bowmen always made life difficult for me, because a chariot is such a large target. Cavalry charging them down fromt he rear was also a real problem. I also found out that chariots have a tough time in the very tight city streets, assaulting the selucids pathfinding on my chariots in those very narrow Greek streets was awful. (not the outer area as shown in the screenie above)
The main problem with fighting chariots is the same as fighting elephants, their ability to knock your men on their backs. This way you have to deal with them on their own and make sure no enemy inf is around when you take care of them, otherwise they will exploit it.
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