Osbot
10-09-2004, 21:27
I've read alot lately about how horrible phalanxes, to the point of being slaughtered headon by just about anything. This was something I deffinately did not experience with Silver Shield Pikemen in my seleucid campaign so I decided to start testing it. There is no screen shotted evidence so you will just have to take my word for it. The first series of tests I ran were phalanx versus phalanx.
I ran 5 battles to help root out any scewed or flukish results. Huge Unit Sizes Medium difficulty.
Battle Set 1.
Macedonian Royal Pikemen versus Seleucid Silver Shield Pikemen.
Results were not even close. The Macedonians generally had lost over 100 men in a head on clash before they had inflicted more than 10 casualties, in at least two battles they had not inflicted ANY casualties by this point. The only significant casualties the Macedonians ever inflicted was near the end of the battles as the Phalanxes became off-centered in their fighting allowing the Macedonians to begin attacking the flank of the Silver Shields without retaliation.
Battle Set 2.
Greek Spartan Hoplites Versus Seleucid Silver Shield Pikemen.
More of the same, the Spartans are massacred head on, the inability of the Spartans and Royal Pikemen to engage the Silver Shields is extremely telling, again only as the Phalanxes rotate against each other do the Spartans begin to deal significant casualties. Spartans actually route Silver Shields in one battle where 11 Spartans wrap around the Silver Shield formation and begin to attack the stupid AI with impunity. The single Spartan victory to me is a fluke, and against a Human opponant would never happen.
Battle Set 3.
Julii Urban Cohort Vs Seleucid Silver Shield Pikemen.
I have played against the Silver Shields in every battle so far, in this battle I made sure I delivered at least one volley of pilum before the clash. The Initial volley of Pilum delivered on average about 30 casualties. Immediatly following the pilum volley was a charge. The Urban Cohort, much like the Royal Pikes and Spartans were unable to effectively close the distance to the Silver Shields and were mowed down enmass in any frontal attacks. Similiar to the Spartans, the Urban Cohort actually came out victorious in 2 battles as the Silver Shields turned on their axis and pointed mostly away from the Cohort allowing much of the small remaining forces to get behind it and hack away with impunity. Obviously this is the way to fight Silver Shields with infantry, however in a combined arms battle, with a continious battle line it will be all but impossible for the Urban Cohorts to win in a 1v1 situation.
Battle Set 4. This was the highly anticipated heavy cav vs phalanx test.
Julii Praetorian Cavalry (Statistically this is the best non-general Cav in the game) Versus Seleucid Silver Shield Pikemen.
I tested several methods of using the Cavalry, simply charging once and leaving them in combat to duke it out, as well as repeat charging. The results may shock some of you. The most effective method of using the Cavalry headon was to leave them in combat where the Seleucid formation was slightly deformed and not as effective. The largest portion of casualties the Cavalry recieved was from its initial charge. In the second battle where I repeat charged, the Pikes never dropped below 200 men. In all other battles where I left the Cavalry in melee combat, they routed at around 6-11 men, with the Seleucids ranging between 95 and 135 men.
The conclusions I have come to is that spear length is extremely important for the Phalanx. The only effective head to head Phalanx units are those that use the extremely long pikes. Any phalanx unit that uses the shorter spears simply is unable to created a solid enough buffer zone between the enemy formation and themselves. This in turn deforms their formation to the point that the first rank switches to swords. This further deforms the formation as the buffer shrinks even further. Statistically speaking, the Silver Shield Phalanx is not a terribly impressive unit. Against the Spartans while it possessed 100 more men, it had much lower attack. Against the Royal Pikemen, where it is again inferior, it clearly outclassed an equally sized formation of superior troops. From my testing, there isnt a cavalry or infantry unit in the game that can stand up to the Silver Shields in a head on attack (Elephants/Chariots were not tested). This leads me to believe that perhaps the modders out there may wish to change the spears the more elite phalanx units use to bring them more in line with how they SHOULD behave.
I ran 5 battles to help root out any scewed or flukish results. Huge Unit Sizes Medium difficulty.
Battle Set 1.
Macedonian Royal Pikemen versus Seleucid Silver Shield Pikemen.
Results were not even close. The Macedonians generally had lost over 100 men in a head on clash before they had inflicted more than 10 casualties, in at least two battles they had not inflicted ANY casualties by this point. The only significant casualties the Macedonians ever inflicted was near the end of the battles as the Phalanxes became off-centered in their fighting allowing the Macedonians to begin attacking the flank of the Silver Shields without retaliation.
Battle Set 2.
Greek Spartan Hoplites Versus Seleucid Silver Shield Pikemen.
More of the same, the Spartans are massacred head on, the inability of the Spartans and Royal Pikemen to engage the Silver Shields is extremely telling, again only as the Phalanxes rotate against each other do the Spartans begin to deal significant casualties. Spartans actually route Silver Shields in one battle where 11 Spartans wrap around the Silver Shield formation and begin to attack the stupid AI with impunity. The single Spartan victory to me is a fluke, and against a Human opponant would never happen.
Battle Set 3.
Julii Urban Cohort Vs Seleucid Silver Shield Pikemen.
I have played against the Silver Shields in every battle so far, in this battle I made sure I delivered at least one volley of pilum before the clash. The Initial volley of Pilum delivered on average about 30 casualties. Immediatly following the pilum volley was a charge. The Urban Cohort, much like the Royal Pikes and Spartans were unable to effectively close the distance to the Silver Shields and were mowed down enmass in any frontal attacks. Similiar to the Spartans, the Urban Cohort actually came out victorious in 2 battles as the Silver Shields turned on their axis and pointed mostly away from the Cohort allowing much of the small remaining forces to get behind it and hack away with impunity. Obviously this is the way to fight Silver Shields with infantry, however in a combined arms battle, with a continious battle line it will be all but impossible for the Urban Cohorts to win in a 1v1 situation.
Battle Set 4. This was the highly anticipated heavy cav vs phalanx test.
Julii Praetorian Cavalry (Statistically this is the best non-general Cav in the game) Versus Seleucid Silver Shield Pikemen.
I tested several methods of using the Cavalry, simply charging once and leaving them in combat to duke it out, as well as repeat charging. The results may shock some of you. The most effective method of using the Cavalry headon was to leave them in combat where the Seleucid formation was slightly deformed and not as effective. The largest portion of casualties the Cavalry recieved was from its initial charge. In the second battle where I repeat charged, the Pikes never dropped below 200 men. In all other battles where I left the Cavalry in melee combat, they routed at around 6-11 men, with the Seleucids ranging between 95 and 135 men.
The conclusions I have come to is that spear length is extremely important for the Phalanx. The only effective head to head Phalanx units are those that use the extremely long pikes. Any phalanx unit that uses the shorter spears simply is unable to created a solid enough buffer zone between the enemy formation and themselves. This in turn deforms their formation to the point that the first rank switches to swords. This further deforms the formation as the buffer shrinks even further. Statistically speaking, the Silver Shield Phalanx is not a terribly impressive unit. Against the Spartans while it possessed 100 more men, it had much lower attack. Against the Royal Pikemen, where it is again inferior, it clearly outclassed an equally sized formation of superior troops. From my testing, there isnt a cavalry or infantry unit in the game that can stand up to the Silver Shields in a head on attack (Elephants/Chariots were not tested). This leads me to believe that perhaps the modders out there may wish to change the spears the more elite phalanx units use to bring them more in line with how they SHOULD behave.