View Full Version : Command Delay
The command delay (units take a while to respond to orders) should definetly be removed in the next patch. Although it was on purpose (to represent the delay of orders getting to a unit), it just doesn't work. Due to the fact that units have no intelligence themselves, I find the delay nothing but annoying.
Thoughts?
Morindin
10-12-2004, 03:21
I like it, and combined with your general shouting out orders adds to the atmosphere of the already noisey and chaotic battles.
If only they OBEYED your commands. :)
I think having instant reactions would be way too RTSy.
DisruptorX
10-12-2004, 03:21
It would work in MTW, where the units actually respond to orders, but not in the current version of Rome. The problem isn't that the delay is a bad thing in and of itself.
Either fix the bugs, or remove the delay. Either option would work.
So, I guess this means a vote for..... "gah!"...
Colovion
10-12-2004, 04:24
I'd like it a lot more if the AI had the same handicap.
MiniKiller
10-12-2004, 04:28
I voted "GAH!"
I love the idea but hate the execution.
Red Harvest
10-12-2004, 05:54
Absolutely hate the command delay. It does not fit at all with the super speed battles. All it does is handicap the human. I didn't realize it was intentional until this post?
The_Emperor
10-12-2004, 10:15
I like it. It adds a lot more realism that the General's unit orders a full on charge with the sound of the horn...
In reality orders would be very difficult to give to your other troops and I llike the fact that this is reflected in the game. I disagree with Red Harvest that it does not fit with the battle speed, it only does that if your too close to the other army to allow yourself time to react (and really it should be for you to make the enemy react by taking the intiative, not the other way around)
If your units reacted instantly the game would be ruled by those who could issue orders faster, and turn it into a clickfest. Insant orders are too RTS-like.
There's delay?
I've noticed misunderstood, completely bollocksed & utter failure to respond, but not any noticeable delay to respond.
R'as al Ghul
10-12-2004, 10:45
The Pharao says the delay is normal in a battle situation.
If the Pharao thinks that the unworthy dogs of a unit don't follow
his orders swiftly enough, he charges them with his chariots. This normally shows them the right direction. ~;)
Seriously, I like it.
R'as
There is a delay?
I honestly don't notice it. How long of a delay is it?
I initially assumed the "delay" being talked about was the one with orders to cease firing arrows (or switching targets, etc). If "delay" was supposed to refer to moving units, then I can't say I've seen one.
Bh
Zatoichi
10-12-2004, 11:39
OK - so this delay business - I've been too busy killing/getting killed to pay this any serious attention - I've had the usual delays in archers stopping firing, and the occasional troops who refuse to move where I asked, but I don't think either is related to the delay you're on about... Am I missing something here?
Is the delay related to distance from the general? So the further you are from him, the longer the delay? Or isn't it that fiendish?
The_Emperor
10-12-2004, 11:45
The delay is in ordering a charge. When I selected some hastati who were standing very close to the enemy I ordered them to attack, they stood there for a bit until the General sounded his horn then they all rushed in...
The archer thing has been explained as well, they will fire off the arrows they are currently reloading when you take them off "fire at will" mode or order them to ceasefire with backspace. It isn't too bad.
Lord of the Isles
10-12-2004, 11:52
I don't mind the few second delay before a unit responds to an order. It's annoying in a way, sure, but is a little more realistic.
What I do mind is the "instantaneous dithering delay". A unit is running in one direction and you order them to charge some enemy. They immediately halt, dither doing nothing for a bit, then perform the charge. I don't mind that there's a delay, I just wish they would continue to execute the previous order (run) until they change over to your new one (charge unit X).
R'as al Ghul
10-12-2004, 11:58
What I do mind is the "instantaneous dithering delay". A unit is running in one direction and you order them to charge some enemy. They immediately halt, dither doing nothing for a bit, then perform the charge. I don't mind that there's a delay, I just wish they would continue to execute the previous order (run) until they change over to your new one (charge unit X).
Agreed. That can be very annoying. Especially with cavalry units. They loose their momentum which is so important for cav charges. Even minor direction corrections make them stop frequently.
But it adds to realism. If your troops are distanced too far from the general there's no possibility to reach them with your commands fast enough. They're on their own, but HA for example perform better on their own than they did in Medieval.
R'as
Red Harvest
10-12-2004, 17:35
The archer thing has been explained as well, they will fire off the arrows they are currently reloading when you take them off "fire at will" mode or order them to ceasefire with backspace. It isn't too bad.
No, it's not too bad, IT'S FREAKING HORRIBLE and incredibly stupid and completely unrealistic.
d6veteran
10-12-2004, 18:00
I love it. Realistic and adds something new to the TW series. Nice touch imo.
So there is a command delay. Always thought of it as sluggish AI. Talking about command delay it really does add realistic and tactical gameplay to RTW. in Combat Misson game series you have to wait 30-60 seconds sometimeds before a unit responded. So you had to be careful with what you were doing.
SpencerH
10-12-2004, 19:06
I like the concept of a command delay. I'm not sure it has been properly implemented though.
ToranagaSama
10-12-2004, 19:10
The delay is in ordering a charge. When I selected some hastati who were standing very close to the enemy I ordered them to attack, they stood there for a bit until the General sounded his horn then they all rushed in...
The archer thing has been explained as well, they will fire off the arrows they are currently reloading when you take them off "fire at will" mode or order them to ceasefire with backspace. It isn't too bad.
Delay?
The only delayed I've noticed is regarding Archers. They usually send one or two volleys before Halting.
Re the Hastati, ahhh.... you know that when you order them to Attack, before they charge, they are going to stop and throw their *Spears* first. Once they've done that, then they'll charge. A bit annoying, but once understood no problem. Just can't get too excited and forget to hit ALT!!
If you don't want them to use throw their Spears, then hit the ALT key and the icon will change to a Sword, and click away at the target unit, they'll charge immediately.
---
If not the above, then, perhaps, the delay is a result of slow computer systems? Maybe you guys might want to post your specs.
I, for one, like the delay. In my opinion, makes it more realistic (especially, if combined with "camera follow the general"). My understanding is, that the delay gets reduced the more stars a general has: i'm not sure this one is working actually. :)
Marius Maxentius
10-12-2004, 19:22
Get the speed mods, people. The command delay is cool.
DisruptorX
10-12-2004, 20:02
Firstly, the delay is not "realistic" in way, shape or form. We know that the unit gets the order immediately, because as soon as you give it, they halt in place like sitting ducks. ~:confused:
d6veteran
10-12-2004, 20:38
Firstly, the delay is not "realistic" in way, shape or form. We know that the unit gets the order immediately, because as soon as you give it, they halt in place like sitting ducks. ~:confused:
Ever watch modern infantry drills?
Halt and double time orders are a few of the orders that are immediate. Attack orders usually involve a sequence of commands. Cease fire orders should be among the slowest for reasons you won't find in drills.
I think this is especialy true as you go back in time.
Having said that, what is realistic does not always translate into good gameplay. In this instance I think it is good gameplay and a decent abstraction of the reality of commanding troops.
I think it is a cool idea. The only thing I've noticed is the archers stop firing one. Other than that it hasn't bothered me. I can understand how not being able to 100% predict gameplay reactions could bother people, but it hasn't bothered me.
d6veteran
10-12-2004, 21:28
I can understand how not being able to 100% predict gameplay reactions could bother people, but it hasn't bothered me.
I think you've nailed the reason for a division on this one.
Even for people like me who enjoy that more dynamic type of game where events are not predictable, it is a fine line between what types of unpredictable behavior I embrace vs those that annoy me. So far, from what I can tell, RTW has done a good job of staying on the right side of that line (ignoring the unpredictable behaviors that are *bugs*).
It would be interesting to see how the peoples votes compare between this issue and the time of the Marius reforms. Remember that there was a division there between people that were ok with them happening at a time other than the historical date. Because there you have predictability allied with historically accurate.
Colovion
10-12-2004, 21:36
If your units reacted instantly the game would be ruled by those who could issue orders faster, and turn it into a clickfest. Insant orders are too RTS-like.
If the game hadn't been sped up so fast I'd agree with you here - unforunately the game is already a clickfest and is already RTS-like and is already ruled by those who can order commands faster. >:(
I am fine with the command delay, what bugs me (and it seems like a bug) is that, if I group a number of units into one group. Then group another bunch of guys into another and issue a command to the second group, at times, the first group responds while the second does nothing (even when accounting for decent command lag). This really can screw the situation up...
On another note, I am fine with the new formation management where, once you align units into formation, you can drag them anywhere on the battlefield and they stay in the formation as ordered. I like it better than the MTW ALT+LEFT CLICK system which at times had weird results. Now, at least, if you see that the situation demands the whole formation to change facing: drag on the battlefield and they units will turn.
ToranagaSama
10-12-2004, 22:16
I say again, delay? What delay? Dithering? What dithering?
My units go where I tell, without hesitation, except the calvalry, which take a minute to gather themselves.
How do you guys know, for sure, there's a "command delay"?
I say again, could it be your systems?
d6veteran
10-12-2004, 23:10
I say again, delay? What delay? Dithering? What dithering?
My units go where I tell, without hesitation, except the calvalry, which take a minute to gather themselves.
How do you guys know, for sure, there's a "command delay"?
I say again, could it be your systems?
Well maybe we're all seeing a consistent bug? ;)
I don't think it could be our "systems". The game is running smooth/fluid otherwise.
It would be nice to get some verification though on what exactly the computer logic is that drives this delay.
SwordsMaster
10-12-2004, 23:22
As most of you. I like the delay, except for the fact that the cavalry actually stops if you change the direction of their movement.
Dont like the fact that sometimes the units just ignore your orders (a really looooong delay, or you made up a unit out of the most stupid guys around?)
Love the Horn. :charge:
Alexander the Pretty Good
10-12-2004, 23:28
I love the idea, and don't mind the actual delay...
Though unit intelligence is about zero.
*cav unit*
"Hmmm. Since I'm about to crash into the enemy is a satisfyingly devastating manner, I should stop about two yards in front of them and beg them to attack me. Just because you ordered me to attack them again in your haste to end the battle.*
:dizzy2:
How do you guys know, for sure, there's a "command delay"?
I say again, could it be your systems?
With 1 gig of ram? Right....
The fact that it is happening to so many people is proof that it is part of the game (IIRC, the CA said they were going to put it in).
The problem is that without individual unit intelligence, or the ablity to "tell" your units your plans beforehand, it is more annoying than anything else. If your units could charge on initiative (that would accually be a good feature. A toggle for "charge when enemies are _ away" [like fire at will]) the delay would be great and realistic. The fact that your units will only ever do what you precisely tell them (and sometimes they don't do that either) makes the delay bad for gameplay.
I don't like the delay. Units in real life have actual brains and initiative. Units in RTW are braindead and you have to babysit them through every phase in the battle. The delay just makes it more frustrating, not more realistic.
ToranagaSama
10-13-2004, 12:52
With 1 gig of ram? Right....
The fact that it is happening to so many people is proof that it is part of the game (IIRC, the CA said they were going to put it in).
That's NOT the way to troubleshoot!
I take the alternative position, I and a couple of others have posted that *we* aren't experienced any "Delays". So, how do you explain this if "it is part of the code"?
Could anyone confirm that you all are aware that you NEED to use "ALT+Left Click" to make the Hasti charge IMMEDIATELY?
Is the "Delay", you're all experiencing, actually the Hasti stopping to throw their spears?
If that's not the case I suggest you all post your SYSTEM SPECS, as there is a distinct trend for Org members to have(...ahhh....TS shifts to PC Speak), less than optimum hardware, in which case it wouldn't be out of the ordinary what you're experiencing.
[I mean I'm having enough trouble acclimating to the new UI, and now you folks are saying there's some *delay* I'm not noticing? I thought the Archers were bad enough!!]
fastspawn
10-13-2004, 12:57
is command delay dependant on difficulty of battle?
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