View Full Version : Spartans Don't Back Down
Young Belisarius
10-12-2004, 06:54
I love playing the Greeks. It seem like the Greeks are invulnerable as long as they don't get flanked. And Spartan Hoplites fight to the death. That's living it up historically.
But when showered by Scythian arrows they die to a man ~;)
Young Belisarius
10-12-2004, 18:19
But when showered by Scythian arrows they die to a man ~;)
true but if yoiu have enough of them they could box 'em in.
and yes arrows are the only way that the persians were really able to stop the spartans are thermopylae.
Marius Maxentius
10-12-2004, 18:35
Spartan Hoplites are excellent units in and out of the Phalanx. They look so cool, too.
I had one unit of Spartans defending a gate. A thousand Macedonian cavalrymen came piling through the gate. The Spartans didn't just hold for the 30 seconds needed for boiling oil to slaughter the entire crowd bottled up there. Oh no. Despite having their formation broken in half they proceeded to simply slaughter absolutely everything that got through the gate in about ten seconds flat, reform their phalanx as they did so, and laugh as the enemy ran screaming from the field. They took...no casualties.
I don't know what's wrong with me, but I can't seem to get phalanx warfare working. It just seems as though I need to know everything in advance. Whenever I want to reposition my troops, I need to let them know about it several weeks prior, and hope they arrive at the scene before the due-by label on their milk carton goes bad.
Worse, the phalanxes are so much better on defense, and I like to always be taking the fight to the enemy. I think they just don't suit my temperament.
How does one go about fighting offense with the slow, prickly phalanx? Any suggestions?
Krusader
10-13-2004, 09:41
Spartan Hoplites are definetly among the best units there is. Although I lost a quarter of mine spartans fighting a phalanx battle against Poeni Infantry...
@Lemurmania: The only way I do it is to disable phalanx formation and move up to the enemy and when you are near the enemy get into phalanx and slowly move against them. One or two units will definetly rush your phalanxes then. And protect your flanks with cavalry. The enemy likes to outflank your phalanx troops.
Another phalanx tip I found in another thread for keeping the formation intact while attacking was to order the phalanx unit to move to a position directly behind the target unit, rather than ordering them to attack the target unit normally. (sorry I don't remember who originally suggested this)
Empedocles
10-13-2004, 17:21
Another phalanx tip I found in another thread for keeping the formation intact while attacking was to order the phalanx unit to move to a position directly behind the target unit, rather than ordering them to attack the target unit normally. (sorry I don't remember who originally suggested this)
the guys from www.totawar.com if I recall fine
discovery1
10-13-2004, 17:28
Worse, the phalanxes are so much better on defense, and I like to always be taking the fight to the enemy. I think they just don't suit my temperament.
Go seige a hostile city with you hoplite army. When your foe attacks trying to lift the seige, you an use them for max effect. But be sure that enemy reinforcements don't come in behind you.
Spartiate
10-13-2004, 17:53
I haven't used the Spartans yet but i have used the Sacred Band Infantry and i have found them to be very tough reliable troops.I move them forward in standard formation in one great line.When they are a short distance from the enemy lines i order them into Phalanx and watch the slaughter.I also have them ordered to a point some way behind the enemy lines but that's an old tactic from MTW and indeed STW.
TopHatJones
10-13-2004, 22:12
arrows are the only way that the persians were really able to stop the spartans are thermopylae.
Negative.
After two days of being slaughtered the Persians found a small mountain pass that lead behind the Spartans backs which they made full use of come nightfall.
TN[ KrAzY!
10-14-2004, 00:01
ive actually found that ordering my phalanx`s to attack rather than move behind the enemy works best, for some reason when i try the move tactic they just wander straight into the enemy and try to push past them, if i tell em to attack they stop just in front, tighten up their formation then slowly grind the enemy to dust, ive also found that they are very vulnerable to a frontal assault by sword wielding barbarians i.e Chosen Swordsmen unles they are very battle hardened. as to the spartans yes they rock hard man. playing an online match last night 1 of my spartan units was engaged from the front by a unit of sacred band and charged in the rear by some cav(i dont remember which type exactly) they promptly destroyed both units without hardly breaking a sweat!!!!
if urban cohort rush into the formation...that'll be nite mare....
also cataphract archers
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I guess I'm going to fire up the game and see if I can't get my phalanx love going.
But I'd still rather have some sword-jabbing legionnaires, who don't need all weekend to assemble in a pretty formation.
dont worry , the computer AI dont know how to rush u wid hardcore armies
...
i usually let cohort start rushing when very close to spike army...then they really jump into the formation...and break it down....
of course u will lose a few men after throwing puliums
Kommodus
10-14-2004, 04:04
Negative.
After two days of being slaughtered the Persians found a small mountain pass that lead behind the Spartans backs which they made full use of come nightfall.
Yes, but YB is referring to the final action of the battle, which happened after the Persian flanking maneuver. After the Spartan king Leonidas was killed, the remaining Spartans fought the Persians for possession of the body. The last remaining Spartans ended up making their final stand on a hill, where they were buried under Persian arrows (the Persian troops were afraid to get close enough for a hand-to-hand fight). Thus both of your observations are correct.
Yes, but YB is referring to the final action of the battle, which happened after the Persian flanking maneuver. After the Spartan king Leonidas was killed, the remaining Spartans fought the Persians for possession of the body. The last remaining Spartans ended up making their final stand on a hill, where they were buried under Persian arrows (the Persian troops were afraid to get close enough for a hand-to-hand fight). Thus both of your observations are correct.
yeah i seen the story on TV...
Young Belisarius
10-19-2004, 20:58
Negative.
After two days of being slaughtered the Persians found a small mountain pass that lead behind the Spartans backs which they made full use of come nightfall.
really? i watched the animated battle scene with the same engine as the game in the history channel
admiral666
10-20-2004, 01:56
Negative.
After two days of being slaughtered the Persians found a small mountain pass that lead behind the Spartans backs which they made full use of come nightfall.
completely correct.watch decisive battles too? ~:cool: (knew anyways,but still :book: )
Just remember to disband the Spartans with half a beard.
Indeed, the Lakedaemons were an honorable and martial race.
The battle at the Hot Gates led, ultimately, to the defeat of the Persian Army at Platea.
Xerxes' army, after the horror of facing Leonidas and his 300 at Thermopylae was terrified when faced with 3000 Spartiates at Platea.
There is much discussion in the colusseum regarding the employment of Phalanx. I find that to simply select all my 'Phalanx' units and designating the frontage...I project the entire battle-line beyond the enemy line.
Once these two lines have met and commenced to engage, I select another point beyond the melee'ing forces and 'double-click' the entire line to run.
My battleline then begins to both perforate the enemy with rapid thrusts of their spears, and force the enemy backwards... :evil:
Inevitably the enemy breaks and what is left routs, only to be introduced to my cavalry...
:charge:
-Attalus_
Fool me once...shame on you
Fool me twice...prepare to die
blueshands99
10-20-2004, 12:20
There is an excellent book called "Gates of fire" based on the battle of thermoplae and events running up to it. It's not hard core historical fact, but the majority is obviously based on historical accounts.
admiral666
10-20-2004, 20:14
correct,i havent read it yet,though.
"Quick Reply-It's for your everyday short post!"
Getting back to Rome:TW :-)
I am fairly disappointed with the usefulness of phalanxes on the battlefield. True, you don't want to charge them head-on. But then, you don't need to. They are unwieldy and very slow to manouevre. I've had very little problems killing phalanxes when I have sufficient cavalry (that includes chariots and elephants).
I also set up a custom battle with 5000gp of Spartan hoplites against 5000gp of cataphracts. The hoplites lost, really badly. It's very easy to draw the attention of a phalanx with a horse unit (which it will never catch) and at the same time charge another horse unit into it's rear. When the phalanx tries to turn to fight the charge, the unit it was chasing in the beginning attacks for a second charge into the rear. And because phalanxes are so slow, it's trivial to pull them apart from each other and kill each one by one.
And note that all this doesn't involve missile troops at all...
Fey
D. Boon's Ghost
10-22-2004, 06:06
For my first posting to this fantastic forum, after a year or so of lurking, I wanted to chime in on the absolute 'fun factor' of playing the Greek City States. So far I have played several factions, yet have only completed the Ju-Ju Beans. By far the best game for me is my current Greek one.
It seems as if they are perfect for the slow, plodding types, such as myself.
Because their main units are phalanx friendly, and because I've seen what happens to Greece on the Roman side of things, I was forced to use crafty diplomacy to survive the initial pounding of 4 land-hungry neighbors. While I am using diplomats to buddy up to my natural enemies, Syracuse weathered at least 5 full-stacked attacks by Scipii with nothing more than 3 units of standard hoplites, 1 Spartan Hoplite, 2 archers, 2 paltry calvary, and one unit of peasants who hid quaking in the square. The initial battles for that corner of the island were simply amazing; the Blue Meanies only allowing me to resupply my units once during those first attacks.
No doubt about it, Greece is a defensive game... and hoplites kick major butt. ~:)
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.