Sengoku: the Age of 3D War

[Duke John]

I had a free evening so I started making some Samurai textures. Note that I can only change the skin and not the model, so it might look odd sometimes.

Samurai Archers
http://chronicles.metw.net/stw/shogun_new_1_1.jpg

Heavy Cavalry attacking No Dachi
http://chronicles.metw.net/stw/shogun_new_1_2.jpg

No Dachi facing Yari Samurai
http://chronicles.metw.net/stw/shogun_new_1_3.jpg

Samurai Archers picking off No Dachi having tea
http://chronicles.metw.net/stw/shogun_new_1_4.jpg

The glory of Samurai Horse Archers on the move
http://chronicles.metw.net/stw/shogun_new_1_5.jpg

Naginata Cavalry charging No Dachi
http://chronicles.metw.net/stw/shogun_new_1_6.jpg
The falling horse animation is incredible

Looking back at these screenshots I'm suddenly like R:TW alot more :grin: If enough S:TW fanatics are interested I can release the textures as a pack together with some unit icons/revised interface and battle flags. Hopefully with the aid of some playtesters we might be able to play S:TW in glorious 3D battles!

:bow:
Duke John

[HicRic]

~:eek: ~:eek: ~:eek:


That is...totally great news!

I would LOVE to see a Shogun mod for RTW. If only because I get all nostalgic thinking about STW. Playing a nice big map of Japan using the strategic interface of RTW would be ace (could it be done?) but even having Samurai battles would be cool. ~:cheers:

Only one query with the screenshots-in the picture of the Naginata cavalry, they don't seem to be holding naginatas? (Or am I just going a bit blind?)

I'd love to play STW in glorious 3D battles. If there is something I can do to help (like the playtesting you mentioned) then count me in. (My e-mail is RFWarlock(at)AOL.com

[Shahed]

Awesome ! I wish we can change the terrain too ! and the faces !!! and the colors !

Brilliant start !

[Duke John]

Well, those are uhm.... mini Naginatas. That is one of the things what I meant with things looking odd. But thanks to Vercingetorix we might soon have an importer/exporter (I am looking right now at an imported model... so cool :2thumbsup: ) and that means much better fitting unit models. The campaignmap is not yet editable. CA still refuses their editor while that might change in the future. Or perhaps Vercingetorix might make another tool. But I think that we have alot of fun awaiting us :grin:

Oh and of course the first thing I did before I tested the units was setting the fog level a tad bit higher.

[LittleGrizzly]

~:eek: that looks amazing i was feeling all sentimental for a game off stw the other day but rtw stw would fill that space much better :) (now i just have to get rtw)

[Thoros of Myr]

Heheh, brilliant DJ!

An STW mod is exactly what I've been wishing for since I heard RTW would be moddable...

I've been following the progress of Vercingetorix's importer/exporter aswell, that will really add a lot to this ~D

I'd love to help with anything I can, I want this mod to see the light of day. ~:cheers:

[Chimpyang]

WOW...that is amazing!

[UglyandHasty]

Great ! ~:thumb: a Shogun mod would be terrific !!


:bow:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Truly impressive.

[SwordsMaster]

Wow, they look great DJ! I loved the way those charges look.. :charge:

[PaolinoPaperino]

that's a good reason to buy Rome! :bow:

[DisruptorX]

Those are very impressive. That looks better than kessen does! That looks like a very promising mod.

[ah_dut]

Shoggy mod!!!!! we want it and you know it... amazing btw DJ

[Medieval Assassin]

If only I didnt have 56k *cries*

[CBR]

I see you can still do your magic John :bow:

Did you work on run animations to reduce run speed? ~D


CBR

[Puzz3D]

That's great Duke Jordan! There is no way I'm playing Rome MP the way it is currently. Might as well just play RTW within a group of players willing to use a mod.

BTW, there was most likely no such thing as naginata cavalry. As far as I am aware, there is only one historical picture which shows the naginata being used from horseback. It's a two-handed weapon. That unit was made up along with battlefield ninja and kensai for the Mongol Invasion add-on to STW.

[Duke John]

Thanks for all the responses :grin:


There is no way I'm playing Rome MP the way it is currently. Might as well just play RTW within a group of players willing to use a mod.
My idea too. I don't really like the ancient period that much and I only played a few days before I started modding. I didn't exactly know which period to choose but after looking through some books of Stephen Turnbull I knew it for use: Shogun!

Since that game is still so much loved I hope that this mod will generate enough interest to generate a small community, a bit like the N:TW one. We don't need to depend on CA to fix unbalances as we can do themselves. There is no problem with distributing balance mods (as would be with original R:TW) as you already need a mod to play it.


Did you work on run animations to reduce run speed?
Not yet possible, but that is certainly one issue that needs to be thought off and playtested.

Although I can work with graphic programs I am not that knowledgable about the Sengoku period (I am reading though!) and I would really appreciate it if some historians could join the mod to make it authentic and historical. I will shortly make a thread in the R:TW Mod development forum, so if you are interested in helping (history, names, graphics, playtesting) then join up!

Cheers,
DJ

[Thoros of Myr]

BTW, there was most likely no such thing as naginata cavalry. As far as I am aware, there is only one historical picture which shows the naginata being used from horseback. It's a two-handed weapon.

Yes...It was primarily for infantry, quite useful to cut at the legs of horse. As a counter to mass archers and eventually firearms many mounted samurai switched to spears. Some of the spears they used look very close to a naginata. It's a possibility that some might have prefered a naginata style weapon, obviously not used two-handed though. Although I think your right in that naginata cav was never a core unit ~;)

[HicRic]

First Samurai get the 3D treatment, then we find the campaign map is editable!

I think an STW mod is just crying out to be created. ~;)

[Adrian II]

First Samurai get the 3D treatment, then we find the campaign map is editable!I have to admit your reskins got me drivelling, Duke. This looks too good to be true. I wonder if it's possible to make a mod that takes care of the worst RTW bugs. I certainly can't, but you bet I'll be lurking here to see what comes of it.

[Leet Eriksson]

Great job DJ ~D

Btw i think the desert infantry skin works pretty well for warrior monks.. as of now.

i'm looking forward to this mod ~D

[kungfood]

i'd be happy to see this mod in action - in due time - now that i've seen those impressive screenshots.
the skins are suprisingly convincing, given the fact that they are just that: skins. i, too am looking forward to seeing remodeled units and such (although i've seen a picture of a short naginata somewhere .. possibly being a more recent design though).

[Jochi Khan]

Absolutely brilliant DJ.

I think this will get a good response from the community.
There are still people who love STW.
Don't think you will have much trouble getting ppl to help test.

Jochi

[Yoshitsune]

I can't deny that this is REALLY what I'd love to see come out of RTW ~;) Ancient warfare isn't really of great interest to me but I still love playing the new game (and I'm blissfully ignorant of any innaccuracies too ~;) )

All the new features of the RTW strategic map - internal province modelling, mountains, roads etc - these were things that I wished had been included in the original STW. Now the possibility?? :dizzy2:

Must admit my own knowledge and interest is the 'way of horse and bow' era (Genpei, Mongol Invasions, War Between the Courts etc 10th-14th) but the sengoku-jidia would be fantastic!

Well done Duke John, Vercingetorix and all the other modders out there ~:cheers:

[Yoshitsune]

BTW, there was most likely no such thing as naginata cavalry. As far as I am aware, there is only one historical picture which shows the naginata being used from horseback. It's a two-handed weapon. That unit was made up along with battlefield ninja and kensai for the Mongol Invasion add-on to STW.

Probably true in that their weren't whole cavalry units so armed - perhaps individuals? Not sure of the Sengoku-jidia era but the naginata on horseback isn't mentioned in the war chronicles or picture scrolls of the Genpei/Mongol Invasion era. The 'Illustrated Scrolls of the Taiheiki' shows a couple of naginata-horsemen in the 14th century but even they have arrow quivers suggesting they are individuals temporarily swopping weapons with a foot retainer...

[Lechev]

Wow DJ thats a great job! My only commend is that those samurais looks more like an armie from the Spring Autuums period ( 770-475 BC ) to the period of Warring States of China (475-221 BC ).

Maybe we can look into this area? ~:cheers:

Some info of that period from the internet.

http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Zhou/zhou.html

[Lechev]

Some similarities of armour and weapon used in those periods ( for modding reference )


http://chinese-armour.freewebspace.com/photo.html


http://militaryhistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2Fycgf%2Fmuseum.htm

[Yoshitsune]

This is slightly disturbing, Duke John:

http://img50.exs.cx/img50/8380/shogun_new_1_5.jpg


Can horse archers fire 360 dgrees in RTW? Or even to the right at all?? This really isn't very convincing even for an unarmoured horseman capable of the 'Parthian shot' backwards. The following is a diagram of the maximum fire arc for an armoured samurai from one of Turnbull's books:

http://img50.exs.cx/img50/4756/fire_arc.jpg

Some stylised japanese picture scrolls etc show a greater arc including an *almost* Parthian shot but firing to the right is just a physical impossibility even without armour...

[HicRic]

Well, that's the fault of the game engine and not Duke John. ~;)

Lechev, I don't understand. Samurai are from Japan, so why to you talk about Chinese armour and the like? ~:confused: They aren't supposed to be Chinese warriors from the warring states period of china 475-221 BC but samurai from Japan in the Sengoku Jidai period (the game covers around about 1550-1600 AD ish, if I remember correctly?)

About 2000 years between them. ~;) I apologise if you were meaning something different, however. I intend no disrespect. :bow:

[Yoshitsune]

Well, that's the fault of the game engine and not Duke John. ~;)

Absolutely! Just commenting on it as I hadn't come across horse archers in RTW yet... ~;) Perhaps this is something that can't be modded??

[Lechev]

Well, that's the fault of the game engine and not Duke John. ~;)

Lechev, I don't understand. Samurai are from Japan, so why to you talk about Chinese armour and the like? ~:confused: They aren't supposed to be Chinese warriors from the warring states period of china 475-221 BC but samurai from Japan in the Sengoku Jidai period (the game covers around about 1550-1600 AD ish, if I remember correctly?)

About 2000 years between them. ~;) I apologise if you were meaning something different, however. I intend no disrespect. :bow:

Its ok, what i mean its the skin appearence of the modded armour. Yes i know they are about 2000 yrs apart. ~:)

[Lechev]

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, this makes a total of 4 post for this topic...hehehe so no body can accuse me of spamming with posts without any content ~;)

[Tera]

An awesome effort..great. I would also love to see a Shogun mod, finetuned to feel like old STW as well. STW 1.12 was arguebly the finest gameplay ever in the franchise.

Go to www.samurai-archives.com for anything you need about Samurai.

[Ceryx]

I've already started making models. Has someone formally declared a mod in the works?

Samurai model (http://erek.org/work/s1.jpg)


I could do the voiceovers in Japanese as well.

Edit: Changed pic to link.

[Thoros of Myr]

Very nice Ceryx, how many polys?

Just waiting for DJ to start up the project thread... :)

[Ceryx]

Thank you. A little over 700 when the katana and saya are included, though I think I can shave off more here and there.

It's about the same as many of the higher roman models (which are 750-800).

[Duke John]

Ceryx you are the man! I would gladly see you working on the Sengoku Jidai mod. I've talked with barocca and he is also very interested. Combine that with the interest shown by some S:TW MP veterans and this might turn out very well indeed :grin:

I will make a design document so that everyone knows what the content of the mod will be. The mod will only cover the Sengoku period. It's a period with almost constant warring factions which makes it perfect for the TW engine. The campmap will only cover Japan. The result will hopefully a nice little mod that can be playable within a few months.

[Tera]

Great! Thank DJ as I said if you need any gameplay/information/help from old STW players just tell us. I'm awaiting in trepidation. I will surely follow the development of this mod.

Ceryx, great!!!

Regarding sounds, gameart etc I think you can import everything from STW hopefully. For unit balance, you can easily see the stats of the units from STW (they're in one of the txts) and apply them, perhaps increasing them equally across the board since RTW seems to need that.

[Lechev]

i have only one word....WOW!!!!!! ~:eek: This is a master piece of art work! ~:cheers: Good stuff! :bow:

[Duke John]

I've set up a thread in the Dungeon. If you have anything to contribute then feel free to post there.
Development Thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=607214#post607214)

Cheers,
Duke John

[Alrowan]

guys, the CAS files have been cracked just about, modle editing is now able to take place in the game, and soon animations will be figured out as well. Check out the TWC for more info on the progress of modding so far

[MK_Ubica_]

Did i mention i wanna hug u John? ~D
(eventhough my rtw online still doesnt work)
This has got me pumped m8.......... :bow:

Japan here i come again

[Turin]

Last night I posted on twcenter.net about how I was wondering if there was a group of guys trying to make a STW mod with the RTW engine. No one mentioned you all... but I kept looking :book: and here you are! ~:)

Anyways, I have to first congradulate you all for the progress that you have made thus far. If CA would only provide the same level of support that Relic does (for Homeworld 2, all the data files and plugins were released with the game, and the developers were always there on the forums to help anyone who needed it), this whole mod would be a lot easier.

My first big question is, how will the campagin map be done? I have heard little talk about it in the RTW forums. Second, how will the clans be differentiated from one another (other than with textures and unit costs)?

My humble suggestion is that prehaps it would be more interesting and diverse to set this mod during the invasion of Korea. You could do it this way: have the Toyotomi regime be set as the Senate, they give the various clans under its control certain missions on the Korean pennisula. Eventually the clans will get so rich and so powerful that they can make a grab for power at home. I mean, all the game mechanics and triggers are there already... By bringing Korea and China into play we greatly diversify the number of units. My biggest turn off in STW was how the armies were so symetrical. Also it would be interesting to try and invade Japan as either the Koreans or the Chinese :bow:

[Puzz3D]

Turin,

It was the homogeneity of the clans in STW that allowed the tactical gameplay in multiplayer battles to rise to a high level. When factions are given units that other factions don't have, it becomes more difficult to balance the game.


Cyrex,

Very impressive graphic model.

[Turin]

Puzz

I can definitely see your point. When players start on even ground the battle can be more interesting. But IMHO it is still more FUN to fight assymetrical battles. There was a time before Starcraft came out, when most RTS games had more or less perfectly symetrical opposing forces. But after Starcraft people began to see that it was much more fun to diversify and de-symetricize (might be a word?) the opposing forces. This was done in MTW and of course in RTW to an even greater extent.

I mean, how fun would RTW be if there were only Romans? I mean a big part of what keeps the campagin interesting inm RTW is that you can have an army and a set of standardized tactics prepared for Western or Barbarian style warfare then when you move against Parthia or the other Eastern powers, you can easily get cremed and then be forced to change your strategy. In the old STW, all I had to do was get musketeers, yari samurai, naginata cavalry :charge: , plus a few monks and I can dominate every other clan because they came at me with more or less the same types of armies.

But that's just my humble opinion... ~;)

[Duke John]

I also made a mod for the Wars of the Roses period. Each faction had the same selection of units. As with S:TW I wasn't bothered with it as it focusses the game on tactics and not on some overpowering units. Would you pick units that are weak vs certain factions? I guess not, so you will need more units to have the same amount of viable units; 10 units with symmetrial armies, 15 units with asymmetrial units since there is a big chance that 5 units are useless vs a particular faction.

If there is a historical background behind faction specific units then it will be included, but they should never be overpowering. I think we all remember the common Spanish faction prepatch that was chosen most of the time for its Lancers. That situation is something I would like to avoid.

[PaolinoPaperino]

The tactic that u want to use force the unit selection, together with the opponent knowledge and the terrain.
If the army chosed is almost always the same, it means that the unit balancing is not good, or the tactic used similar.
With this mod it could be, as an example, solved many problems arised with the 1.02, introducing ashigaru archers, samurai matchlocks, etc....available to every faction.
In general I agree with DJ, the difference between fun and bore game has not to be located in the symmetric/asimmetric unit selection dichotomy.
Ceryx: impressive the image. :smitten:

[Wolf__Kyolic]

Amazing Duke John. :bow:

Wolves are really interested in this mod and if needed, we are willing to help for its development and balancing issues.

Let us know if we can be of any help for the development of this mod.

Kyo

[Kansuke]

Howl guys,

Firstly, the Wolves commend Duke John on his impressive and excellent work thus far, this in turn has stimulated interest in the Wolves Den. Therefore Magyar Khan and Kocmoc have personally offered to assist in any testing required, along with the rest of the pack.

We wish a successful conclusion to this project.

*Bows*

Kansuke.

[Kansuke]

OOPS

Double Whammy!

See the Wolves are keen ~:cheers:



PS: Can I have my STW Avatar back Please. HEH just realized I can do it myself.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You can change it yourself in the usercp now.

[Duke John]

Thank you for the offers. My pics may look good ( :wink: ) but Ceryx is doing alot better. Go to the development thread for some screenshots.

While Ceryx is making the units, I am making the campmap. Once he is finished we will release a tactical mod as soon as possible so that the MP community can make stats and playtest them. If you like you can already start discussing the stats and what role the units should have.

:bow:

[ichi]

Great idea DJ.

Aregato for all you do

*bows*

ichi

[Duke John]

Sengoku Jidai has now its own forum: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=85

Drop by if you have any ideas. Feel free to make a new thread.

I'm making a new interface so if there are any issues with the official one that you like to see fixed then bring it forward. Nothing too big, but I can make different icons for the valour thingies. Or uniticons with more contrast between selected and unselected.

Or perhaps you are already having ideas about stats. While the unitlist isn't completed yet, you might have an idea about how spearmen can be made effective vs cavalry.

Cheers,
Duke John

[kankou1razor]

LOl this is great news. I would love to play Shoggy in 3D.

[Jimesu_Evil]

Reviving Shogun Total War was always the first thing on my mind ever since first seeing the screenshots of RTW. I'm glad somebody is doing this, because there is no way in hell I would do it alone.

I am a modeller, and I will gladly help out if you guys need any more modellers. (Ceryx that's awesome!)

Here's a Samurai model pack I made for Jedi Academy:

http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/4094/7915/b2.jpg
http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/4094/7915/b1.jpg
http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/4094/7915/b3.jpg
http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/4094/7915/b4.jpg
http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/4094/7915/b5.jpg

So if you guys need another modeller, I'll gladly help. :D

[Duke John]

Sorry for the late reply, but those are looking very nice!

Ceryx has already made most of the models, but since your work looks so great I'm sure that we can use your talent. Officers and such still need to be done so if you are still interested please contact Ceryx (PM or via the Sengoku Jidai subforum (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=85))

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

Reviving Shogun Total War was always the first thing on my mind ever since first seeing the screenshots of RTW. I'm glad somebody is doing this, because there is no way in hell I would do it alone.

I am a modeller, and I will gladly help out if you guys need any more modellers. (Ceryx that's awesome!)

Here's a Samurai model pack I made for Jedi Academy:

http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/4094/7915/b2.jpg
http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/4094/7915/b1.jpg
http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/4094/7915/b3.jpg
http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/4094/7915/b4.jpg
http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/4094/7915/b5.jpg

So if you guys need another modeller, I'll gladly help. :D
That's very nice...

I hope you continue to post more of your work here. I enjoy seeing it...

[Wilbo]

I guess you didn't hear, Ferocious, Duke John left the mod :(

Hopefully he will soon realise the error of his ways and continue though! They had a great looking parchment campaign map!

:embarassed:

[HunkinElvis]

This is slightly disturbing, Duke John:

http://img50.exs.cx/img50/8380/shogun_new_1_5.jpg


Can horse archers fire 360 dgrees in RTW? Or even to the right at all?? This really isn't very convincing even for an unarmoured horseman capable of the 'Parthian shot' backwards. The following is a diagram of the maximum fire arc for an armoured samurai from one of Turnbull's books:

http://img50.exs.cx/img50/4756/fire_arc.jpg

Some stylised japanese picture scrolls etc show a greater arc including an *almost* Parthian shot but firing to the right is just a physical impossibility even without armour...
Ancient Korean archers were capable of the "Parthian shot" backwards:
http://kr.img.blog.yahoo.com/ybi/1/dc/95/drsin66/folder/1752170/img_1752170_1362862_0?1102742627.jpg

Does RTW have fog? I liked the misty weather in STW. :smitten: