Halo 2 pirated

[HawaiianHobbit]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/10/14/news_6110539.html

http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox/halo-2/557113p1.html

:pirate: :blank:

[Hetman_Koronny]

Unfortunately, that is happening to many major titles these days.. HL2 as I remember last year was one of the most sensational leaks.

I don't think there is a way of stopping it :|

[Leet Eriksson]

That was fast ~:eek:

Piracy is pretty rampant around my area ~;p, there is a ban on piracy but the police do not enforce it so the pirates have their way with it, even displaying pirated copies on the shops windows and such. heh even the police buy pirated games ~;p

Since console gaming here is very thriving compared to PC gaming, piracy of pc games is minimal.

[Thoros of Myr]

The same stories were circulating before the release of Doom 3. They said the same thing, "We are aggresivly investigating the leak", etc.

No one has been brought to justice though or it hasent been disclosed to the public if anyone has...which would not be smart, they need to show that these "leakers" can be caught and brought to justice or it will continue unabated.

[Teutonic Knight]

The same stories were circulating before the release of Doom 3. They said the same thing, "We are aggresivly investigating the leak", etc.

No one has been brought to justice though or it hasent been disclosed to the public if anyone has...which would not be smart, they need to show that these "leakers" can be caught and brought to justice or it will continue unabated.


I fear the outcome will be the same in this case, if this person knows what he's doing (which is likely if he works that intimately with Microsoft) he'll be semi impossible to track down...

[Lehesu]

Meh. Schade. You jack up the price to 50+ quid, stuff happens. Not that it's excusable, mind you, but jacking the price as high as the market can absorb can have an unwanted side-effect.

[Thoros of Myr]

It's not just prices being jacked up...illegal filesharing has been going on since the internet began and simply copying even longer but always in very small numbers and fairly secretive, the real problem, especially with the explosion of high speed internet, is the level of orginization it has reached (games being leaked weeks/months before thier street date, copy protection methods cracked and files distributed by organized teams) and the mass appeal (look at any legit gaming website's forum, piracy and piracy fueled disputes are rampant on them).

[Lehesu]

If gaming prices were more "reasonable" (whatever that word indicates), people might be less inclined to hack their way to a game. Hacked games often do not support online play/patching and it would clearly be better to pay a small amount to get this level of support. But when the cost outstrips the advantages of this support....

[Papewaio]

So it is okay to steal as long as it is:

A) Easy to do.
B) The item is expensive.

So what if police do it. All that means is the society is corrupt.

So someone is allowed to steal a BMW because it is expensive.

[Lehesu]

Go ahead and misinterpret....I have never said that it was right. Just that there would possibly be more impetus to steal if the thing is more expensive. You don't break into a bank to steal 20 quid. Most people probably won't take the risk to download a 20 or 30 quid game.

[Blodrast]

I think Lehesu is at least in part right... let me elaborate a bit on that:
(please note that I'm not debating the morality or legality of this, merely reasons why piracy does occur)

if you live in a "civilized" country (western Europe, North America, etc, etc), and make, let's say 2k $/month (or 1.5k Euros, or whatever, something along those lines), you will not see any significant problem in paying $50 (let's say) for a game, especially since you're not buying a new game every week (or perhaps every month). So it's quite affordable, you have absolutely no reason to even think about piracy, or acquiring a pirated version.

The problem appears when the same price of $50 is in a poor country, where the average salary is $200-$500 / month. Obviously you will not be able to afford to spend that $50. I know, you'll say: "Well, that's just too bad, if you can't afford it, don't buy it !". And you are, in principle, right. But if you've ever lacked anything in your life, you'll understand why it's so easy to pay the 2-3 bucks or whatever the pirated copy on open display in the street costs, and acquire the game without too much fear of punishment (after all, the black market is more or less tolerated by the authorities, and its suppresion in one point merely causes it to resurface in a different one, not disappear altogether). You most likely won't be able to play it online, sure, you may not even have the movies/intro/music/voices/whatever, but you'll still have and be able to play the game (singleplayer, or whatever is appropriate for that game).

So I believe that _that_ is a pretty strong incentive for people to pirat games, and to buy pirated games.
You can probably verify that by seeing where the piracy is very much an issue: China and its neighbors, Russia, Eastern Europe...
Sure, there's piracy in the US & co. as well, but there only a few percent of the population are using pirated software, whereas in the other regions it's more like 95% of the users have a pirated version...

That's my view on why things are the way they are.
Now for a solution - I'm afraid I don't have a reasonable one. I've actually given it some thought, and the straightforward one is probably not gonna work (I am referring to having different prices in different regions). Why ? Because "intrepid" people could then buy them bulk from where they sell cheaper, and sell them in places where they are more expensive, possibly cheaper than the official local price - which would probably only be a different form of piracy.

Since it's an imperfect society we're living in, I guess this is just gonna remain another issue for an indefinite period of time. It's not the most critical, either...

[Papewaio]

I'm living in Taiwan...

Rampant copyright breach slows down foreign investment. Essentially companies do not feel safe publishing, creating, manufacturing or designing items in countries that commit gross amounts of stealing.

Copyright fraud is one sign of corruption in a country. The more it happens the more corrupt the country is. As is polarised wealth and pollution, they are both indicators that something fishy is happening in a country.

End of the day stealing is stealing.

But lets look at this and apply it in a universal er more worldly fashion er warped fashion.

Saying it is more likely to happen because the item is expensive. Logical as people have worked hard to create it. Yes games are a billion dollar industry. Lets assume your figures that 95% of gamers are pirates in the poor sections of the world and also extend that to include most university students who are poor.

So pirating happens to most software and by a lot of people and it is an expensive item so it is justified. It is a billion dollar industry after all...

So does the same logic justify the following:

Adultery: Wives are expensive and if she is willing and easy then it is okay for another guy to have an affair. It is even more okay if someone else is doing it.

By the same standards it was ok the west to use colonial rule. It was easy and the items where expensive.

United States is justified using the same principles to invade the entire middle east and take all the oil for themselves. Oil is expensive and it would be easy for the US to do. They would then have control of 75% of the worlds oil reserves... 75% pirated of a billion dollar industry.

[Lehesu]

Pape, you are way off base here. The difference between slapping down some hard cash or stealing is a lot easier/less involved than the other examples you listed. Each one of those have other factors; logistical, political, emotional, cultural, you name it. A person doesn't steal a game and become emotionally wrapped up with the occurence, nor does he have to worry about cultural differences when colonizing/conquering and he doesn't have to worry about the political consequences. He doesn't have to worry about his constituents; HE is the only constituent. Stealing a game requires less commitment, preparation, and follow-through than any of your other examples, and can be made with less forethought and effort.

Again, neither I nor Blodrast have justified the stealing.

[Papewaio]

It is a scalar difference not a vector difference.

[Lehesu]

Scalar differences make all the difference when making real-life decisions. Vectors and scalars are mathematical phrases; transcribed to real-life, I like to call them factors. And different factors require different judgment.

[Papewaio]

They are all wrong on larger and larger scales. If the first step is okay why isn't the second step?

It is quite easy to see that the more corrupt a country or region is the more poverty it has. Is it the poverty that causes the corruption or the other way round?

[Lehesu]

Now it seems that we have danced around the subject entirely.

1.) I do not believe that pirating games is legal or even justified.
2.) I acknowledge that some factors (increasing price, availability) contribute to the pirating.
3.) I believe that the factors that deal with this type of moral wrong are intrinsically different than those of others, such as adultery, etc.

Keep things in perspective. It's not like we are invading a country or murdering an individual. It may be just as morally reprehensible, depending on your view, but the impact is much different.


And I fail to see how this stint on poverty vs. corruption has anything to do with pirated game copies.

[Papewaio]

Simple the most piracy happens in the poorer countries with the most corruption. Piracy is not causing the lack of wealth it is an indicator of corruption which in turn is hampering postive growth.

[frogbeastegg]

If this goes too far off into moralism, politics, or any other subject unrelated to gaming then it's moving to the front room.

[Blodrast]

yeah, I guess it's my fault for bringing it up. Sorry about that. I didn't write any replies precisely because I realized later on that this isn't the best place for a discussion on that...

[HawaiianHobbit]

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas has now been leaked

http://ps2.gamespy.com/playstation-2/grand-theft-auto-san-andreas/558575p1.html

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/10/20/news_6111057.html

[Fragony]

Maybe I am saying something stupid, but how are they going to actually play it? Is it a pc port of some sort?

[ah_dut]

OKay bar Pape, none of you ever seem to have gone to mainland china, or anything like that. In Shanghai. it's actually extremely hard to get a legit copy. I myself think this is loony. All the pirates look so legit in China, it's crazy, 100 RMB ( about 7 pounds 50 or 15 USD) is the maximum price for a legit looking game. These Pirates are seriously more skilled at cracking the copy protection than the makers are at creating them. So all in all I really think that piracy is wrong but it's impossible to stop especially in countries like China which really don't care. Also, it's actually possible t just pirate them off things like Kazaa, or sumthin like that. So to be honest, just close these p2p things down, they along with the street market and even shop window pirate copies are ruining gaming in terms of prices for everyone.
I ramble, I know

[BDC]

This Halo2 thing is overrated.

It is a French version of the game. Not only does this mean that you need to speak French to get most of it, it also means you need a FRENCH Xbox to play it. So the chances of any significant numbers of people getting it to play are slim.

Do the French use PAL yet?