Greeks vs Macedonians

[TN[ KrAzY!]

ok whos heavy infantry is better out of these 2 civs. i thought the Spartans were the best heavy inf in the world but they keep gettin annihilated by macedonian pikeman etc. any thoughts or suggestions?

[smoothiemaker]

all phalinx formation units get slaters by achers so use malita calvary, skinerishers/achers to weken the phalinx before you send yours in to thers

[Khorak]

You'll find Spartans getting beaten by them because their pikes are shorter. They can't reach the enemy to kill them when going head on.

Me, I've never actually fought a field battle against the Macedonians as Greeks. Why? Because for some strange reason my armies of Hoplites, outnumbered three to one by various forms of cavalry, were consistently kicking the shite out of the enemy. Presumably without any tactical flair and pure number crunching of autobattle, the 'good against cavalry' part of Hoplites is vastly more effective...

[Accounting Troll]

As well as getting longer spears, a unit of Macedonian pikemen gets 50% more men than a unit of hoplites. The extra men give the Macedonians a big advantage over the Greeks in phalanx clashes.

Use archers and peltasts to weaken the enemy phalanxes before your phalanxes engage them, and hit them in the flank & rear with your cavalry.

I have often found that in an open battle, the AI will break up its battle line and have individual phalanxes trying to chase down the faster moving archers and peltasts. If you keep your phalanxes together, you will be able to destroy the enemy piecemeal.

[Theodoret]

I found phalanxes very difficult to use when I first got the game as they are very different to M:TW spearmen. Now I'm learning to love them.

The trick is to use the units in pairs wherever possible. Pin the unit with one phalanx and march the other one quickly around a flank (I turn off the phalanx formation to speed this up) and then engage. The enemy can't face off against one formation and defend against the other, and even high quality units evaporate under this sort of attack.

The other trick with phalanx armies is to use lots of them. Bulk out your armies with the cheaper phalanx units. What kills a phalanx is flanking, either by a second unit or by a unit in melee wrapping around your flanks. The more units you have the longer your line of battle and the harder it is for an enemy to flank you. Don't try stretching your units out into thin formations for the same effect. Phalanxes are easily broken if they are only 2-3 lines deep.

You could also try fielding lots of cavalry, as Khorak suggests, for the same reasons - both to protect your flank and to flank the enemy. Phalanx armies really make manouvre the key to victory. You can't just fling your units straight at the enemy, no matter how good they are.

[Colovion]

Man to man the Greeks have better Soldiers - but the greater numbers and longer pikes for the Macedonians give them that edge. I have done a bunch of custom battles and I can beat either one's best/middle/worst phalanx troops with their opposite every time - it really depends on the tactics you use and how you use the troops. If you know that your troops have a weakness (such as teh Greeks having smaller spears) then don't attack from teh front. Try flanking their whole army by not engaging one of their flanks and pulling your other flank back. That way you will be able to just 'roll up their flank'. The Macedonians have less armour so if you can flank them they're done - it's their front which is tough to crack.