Anyone played the Parthians yet?

[Orvis Tertia]

I'm a short way into my first Parthian campaign, which also happens to be my first campaign on hard/hard, and it's, well... hard!

The Parthians have some interesting problems. First, their starting provinces and those around them are really large, which makes the cities rather isolated from each other. That makes it difficult to defend them, and it also makes it difficult to create, say, one city to crank out infantry and another to crank out cavalry.

The economy seems to not want to get in gear. I'm struggling along, having built all the trade buildings first, and having captured the Hanging Gardens early. I'm making about 2K a turn, which doesn't cover construction in all my provinces.

So far, I haven't been able to form any alliances. I was hoping to get Scythia allied with me so that I wouldn't have to worry about my northern border, but so far, no luck. I beat the Seleucids back and took two or three of their provinces, but the army that they have left is much larger and stronger than mine, so I decided to arrange a cease fire. And the Egyptians are steamrolling across the territories to the south of me, and I have a strong suspicion that they are going to be casting hungry gazes at my cities pretty soon. Judging by their armies that I have seen, they can field a lot more troops, and a lot more better troops, than I can at the moment.

Looking at the tech tree, things should get better for me once I can build Cataphracts and War Elephants, but I'm wondering how hard it's going to be to make it that far. It's a fun game so far, and quite a challenge. I'm actually finding myself playing cautiously and going for many turns without attacking anything, trying to build up infrastructure and grab the occasional target of opportunity when I can.

Just wondering if anyone has played this faction and learned any useful tips.

[Krusader]

Check the RW Guides for some info.

But yeah, Im in the middle of playing it.
I recommend building watchtowers at key places, even inside your own provinces to keep an eye for rebels that might disrupt trade, farming etc.

Susa is probably the first city u can build Cathas and Elephants in.
Go for that one. Keep the army in Campus Sakae where it is. It will be rebellious, plus its handy if the Scythians attack. If Campus Alanni becomes a rebel city, immidiately try and conquer it, as it can have mines and does bring in a nice income. Plus there are only two ways into Tribus Alanni for the Scythians. One is at ford, the other near a forest.

Persian cavalry is your friend!! They are slightly better than Horse Archers when it comes to archery, but they are much better in melee combat!!

Eastern Infantry is okay in the beginning, but when u get Cathas and Elephants, I usually ditch the Eastern Infantry, and instead use peasants as garrisons to save cash, and go for all cavalry armies.
Sarmatean mercenaries are good Catha-copies, not as tough, but they can be decisive in battles. And oh...in Bithynia you can recruit Hoplites, Thracian mercenaries and best of all....Bastarnae mercenaries. These guys are perfect for sieges, as that's one aspect they suffer in.

And you have probably done this, but still worth mentioning. The more farming upgrades you got in Seleucia, the bigger boost your economy will get.

[andrewt]

I'm almost done in normal/normal. The Seleucids are ultra easy. You shouldn't have many casualties using horse archers. Just bring enough that you won't run out of ammo. In my game the Seleucids allied with the Egyptians, who promptly attacked me afterwards. You may want to delay moving near the Egyptians and build up some infrastructure and units first. The key to the Parthians is their kill ratio. I've had a battle with the Brutii recently where they had an army of Velites/Hastati/Princeps/Triarii with 2006 troops. I had 1137. I killed 1860 and lost 0.

Once you expand west into Antioch and capture it along with Sidon, Tarsus, Jerusalem and Salamis, money will cease to be a problem. Just build up ports.

[Ptah]

Your immediate neighbor is Armenia and Scythia - they make good allies, and can be generally trusted.

Armenia is the only country which can strike fast into your territory, but since they are weak in both military power and in territory, it is pretty easy to fend them off. The Scythians are pretty much stagnant in whatever they do and hardly pose any threat in whatever case.

Thus, your immediate attention falls upon the Selucids and Egyptians. How quick you can advance into the rich provinces of Asia and Egypt usually determines the game. In any case, a very important strategical area is Dumatha in Arabia. While it is economically unimportant, it provides a staging point into advancing west towards Egypt, and is also a key location in advancing deep into Selucid territories without being harassed. It is under Rebell control, and can be quickly conquered in the early stages of the game.

In any case the long distances between cities works both ways. If you can construct a chain network of watchtowers along the long roads between the cities you can detect enemy advance at least 3~4 turns before they begin to propose a serious threat. Multiple small, mobile armies of fast moving cavalry stationed in forts between the long roads can quickly rally at a middle point and immediately form a large defense force. Thus, the distance works against the enemy as much as it works against you. (This is why Dumatha is so important. All Egyptians incursions can be detected at Dumatha)

Your primary targets are the rich cities of Seleucia, Antioch, Jerusalem and Tarsus, expanding West into the jewels of the Orient. The army of horse archers can defeat all enemies, but it is rarely so efficient in siege battles. Thus, your best move is to get the enemy armies to merge into a large force, and then deal with it in one swift blow. Lure them into the vast voidness of the desert, crush them, and then quickly advance and lay siege to a city before they build up a large army again. So the basic military strategy is lure-defend-counterattack.

If you can reach the Aegean seas, then Parthia is on fast track to greatness.

[Brutal DLX]

I allied with the Seleucids and Scythians, and took on Armenia instead. Parthia should always field all cav armies, however Persians are more expensive to train, which is a thing to consider when you don't have a big income, and I didn't have so good melee experiences with them, Horse archers and higher level cav should work, but I generally recruit desert mecenaries like camels and arabian cav. Fighting Egypt is not that hard, other than their desert cav, they have no means to keep pace with your horse archers. However, if you haven't mastered horse archers tactics yet, better don't play Parthia until you do. You'll have to fight most, if not all, battles personally, as the Autoresolve produces unrealistic defeats for your horse archer armies.

[Doug-Thompson]

Parthia should always field all cav armies, however Persians are more expensive to train, which is a thing to consider when you don't have a big income, and I didn't have so good melee experiences with them, Horse archers and higher level cav should work, but I generally recruit desert mecenaries like camels and arabian cav. Fighting Egypt is not that hard, other than their desert cav, they have no means to keep pace with your horse archers. However, if you haven't mastered horse archers tactics yet, better don't play Parthia until you do. You'll have to fight most, if not all, battles personally, as the Autoresolve produces unrealistic defeats for your horse archer armies.

This advice is pure gold: 100% correct.


Parthia should always field all cav armies, however Persians are more expensive to train, which is a thing to consider when you don't have a big income, and I didn't have so good melee experiences with them, Horse archers and higher level cav should work, but I generally recruit desert mecenaries like camels and arabian cav.

If you don't like to micromanage horse archers, Parthia will be a very unpleasant experience. Battle are nearly constant, and your only decent units are cavalry. Eastern Infantry is worse than useless in the early years. It just slows your cavalry army down when it needs to move to face multiple threats.

Mercenary cav may be expensive to hire, but they are very cheap to maintain -- 110 dinarii a turn for Arabic Cavalry or Camels, for instance. There is no other source of decent melee cav in the early years. Use them wisely, and only to counter melee cav. Egyptian desert cavalry will often turn and run from camels before making contact. Use them to threaten and counter cavalry threats to your horse archers, while the HA do the killing. Also, Samaritian (sp?) mercenary cavalry from the north are good. Check frequently for good melee cavalry mercs to hire. They repay the investment.


You'll have to fight most, if not all, battles personally, as the Autoresolve produces unrealistic defeats for your horse archer armies.

My only complaint about playing Parthia is the sheer number of battles. That's a strange complaint, but it was not uncommon at all for my main army to have more than one battle in one turn, plus other battles by other armies elsewhere. Brigands abound, too.

The advantage of all this fighting, of course, is a steady supply of very experienced generals and units.

=======

Now the real problem is the economy.

On the first turn, send an army to grab Phraaspa, the rebel-controled city to the northwest. The Armenians are headed there, too. Get it before they do.

At the same time, send another army to grab Seleucidia and the Hanging Gardens wonder, which will greatly improve your economy.

Now all you have to do is keep them. You'll probably be able to grab Hatra (Assyria) from the Seleucids before a serious war starts with Egypt.

Two or three-front war is the norm in the opening moves. Your survival depends totally on tactical skill with horse archers, being able to wipe out advancing armies with little or no loss to yourself because you cannot afford replacements. One serious defeat and you're dead. This is another reason why Eastern Infantry, and all other infantry, are a bad idea in the early years. If things go sour, they can't get away. They also can't move fast enough. I've frequently beat one Seleucid army and one Egyptian army in the same turn with the same force, all in the Palmyra area.

Siege, frankly, is a big problem. You're just going to have to wait them out, and even lift the siege rather than get tied down. It's a lot of work for a little territory when fighting the @#$% Egyptians. You'll also besiege a city successfully and sometimes have to pillage and abandon it because you can't afford a garrison. Be sure to delete as many buildings as you can when you have to leave. You'll need the money.

Just when you think your hands are full with the Seleucids and @#$% Egyptians, you're going to have to give the Scythians and/or Armenians a kicking because those are the only places you can expand to improve your economy.

Assuming you survive all this, you'll eventually be able to conclude some sort of peace with the Seleucids. They have trouble with the aggressive @#$% Egyptians, too.

A wise player pointed out to me on another thread that taking Jerusalem, or at least causing a revolt there by beseiging it, is the key to winning the war with Egypt. Once that town is out of @#$% Egyptian hands, their troubles really begin. Once the city is in your hands, your money troubles are over. You will have to pillage it to make it controllable, however.

[Bob the Insane]

LOL... Started a campaign as this lot the other night, got my arse handed to me by the Armeneans... Went back to Scipii campaign.. ~D

[andrewt]

Persian cavalry also have a better missile rating. They're not as fast as standard HAs but they are more disciplined. Their formation takes up less space, making it easier to cut down on the stupid bunching friendly fire casualties.

[troymclure]

Tried these lads 3rd faction out, my first vh/vh game did ok though i think i made a few mistakes you might learn from, being an old shogun/mtw player i immediately wiped out the faction next to me ie. armenia and then fortified that section of the map of from the selucids and egypt. (i still had a that town next to the selucid one but i plumped a big garrison in it and it never got bothered). It was a bit of a gamble but paid off, the forts combined with my big garrison and my constant diplomatic overtures kept either the selucids, pontus or egypt declaring war on me right from the start. It was however a real struggle for cash early and seeing as i didn't want to open the floodgates and declare war on any of my stronger neighbours i ended up taking modern day russia of the scythians, including the Amazon tribe up there. This actually didn't help the cash flow situation as much as invading practically anywhere else would have but it did give me something to do for 20 years.
My neighbours were quite busy during this period though, the selucids were losing a war to the eqyptians and pontus was getting inquisitive.
Conquering russia had increased my income, it had also turned my faction heir into a 9 star general and "trained" about six units of Horse archers to silver chevron status.
I decided it was time to expand the purple area on the map. :) Pontus fell to my sword in less than 5 years, all of modern day turkey bar the remaining greek city (now the greek capital) was under parthian control less than 15 years after my general got back from russia and now the selucids and pontus had been destroyed. My funds were starting to look much better now but i was still behind on the tech tree due to not having enough money for buildings in the begining decades. Still i knew what came next.
So the inevitable, war with Egypt. This was my mistake, it was about 40 years after the start of the game and Egypt had all of the middle east and as a result probably made more money per turn than i had so far. I knew i was going to be outnumbered but i was confident, my 9 star general was still alive and he was now a 10 star with lots of good traits.
He was the core of all my plans, i would use other forces defense but always it was him and the army he lead (now possessing gold chevron HA's) that had won me my battles.
So I sent a force down into egypt, my general(i shall refer to him as the horsemen from now on) and a stack of my best cavalry. It was an armada comprising mostly of HA's and persian cavalry with some cataphracts and a unit of seasoned samartian mercs who had been with me in various guises since russia. The plan this time was to cripple the egyptian economy, i would send "the horseman" down into the heart of egypt cut a swath through whatever armies he came across and then beseige and extermenitae the egyptian capital. This plan had worked previously.
"The horseman" sallied forth from my capital city after stopping in for some new armour, the journey to the egyptian capital was long and i exptected to fight a few battles on the way, but i was confident my horse archer tactics would allow me to reach the capital with more than enough men to do what was needed. It wasn't even half a days journey into the egyptian lands when i came across my first real challenge. A full stack of egyptian units heading towards my lands. He had a composite force, 1200 men in total; archers; pharaoh's bowmen; hordes of phalanxes; desert axeman and the dreaded chariots i had heard so much about. I lost 30 men. "The Horseman" was not impressed by the egyptians. Two turns later and "the Horseman" and his army had fought 5 more battles all against very large composite armies and it was starting to whittle away the troop numbers. Not the HA's just the cataphracts and samartian mercs had taken casualities. Still i was close, one or two more turns to the capital and they seemed to be running out of stacks. I ended the turn and they attacked me with a stack led by the egyptian faction leader, the battle was long and bloody near the end as his leader caught a group of my cataphracts and nearly wiped them out. I ended the battle with only 30 cataphracts left and about 10 sam mersc. Still i won, the faction leader was dead and his heir was a weakling.
I was attacked again immediately this stack wasn't quite full i soon saw why. I deployed my HA's near the front of the deployment so as to start attacking enemy troops as soon as possible and my remaing heavy cav and general as far back as possible. I clicked start battle and my jaw dropped, i was looking at a sea of horses, his army was entirely light cavalry, mine was almost entirely horse archers, i was outnumbered two to one and the only units he had that weren't light cav were chariots. I was deep in enemy territory with no reinforcements and the enemy general had the perfect counters to my two unit types. The battle lasted perhaps five minutes, though perhaps slaughter would be a better word. The pride of parthia, the scourge of russia and the middle east, "The Horseman" was routed and then hacked down from behind by a horde of light cavalry. My samartian mercs, my gold cheveron HA's and my general were all dead, corpes rotting away somewhere on the road to egypt.
I hadn't bothered to build other armies, "The Horseman" had never lost a battle. Egypt rolled over me in a few short years, i probably could have made a comeback, but they sent up armies into my undefended lands immidieatly and truth be told i don't think the heart was in it after that.

[Doug-Thompson]

Re: troymclure's tale

There's a reason I call them the @#$% Egyptians.

War with the @#$% Egyptians early is tough. War with them later is tougher.

Somebody posted a strategy against them using agents to start a civil war in Memphis, the site of the Great Pyramids wonder. If rebels take that province over, then their provinces all over the map lose the wonder's loyalty bonus and immediately fall into revolt. I think the thread is in the Entrance Hall.