Medieval - Total War mod

[VikingHorde]

I have started working on units for a medieval mod and the first unit is almost done. The mod will be different to the original game because of the different structure of the game. Most units will be based on the units of the original game. I will post more details when I have explored RTW some more.

[Silver Rusher]

Why don't you merge with the CTW mod? It would be very productive.

[VikingHorde]

I prefeer the medieval period from 1086-1456 because of the little use of gunpower. I also have most of the research material (pics and info) from the XL mod, so I can start easyer on the mod.

[Amir-san]

You guys CAN cooperate though, make one a sequel to one another. Dont you think? :)

[Armchair Athlete]

Yes! A medieval mod!! I was waiting for someone to start this. If you need any assistance with research I have heaps. I have done quite a bit more since the XL mod and have a heap of stuff researched. I cant really do any actual modding, but I could help write unit/faction descriptions if you want. Might save a bit of time. I also have a heap of maps I can post which might help. Just one question - what time will it start and finish on? If each year is two turns and can't be modded then it would take ages to finish a campaign set on the exact dates on MTW (almost 1000 turns!!!)

[BobTheTerrible]

This is one mod I'd love to see. I would love to help with anything at all (except maybe research) I have done next to no mod work to Rome so far. I can possibly become a skinner, but my computer doesn't even have photoshop. If you can pm me we might be able to work something out. If it turns out I have no modding skills whatsoever, I'll work as a playtester.

[VikingHorde]

@Amir-san
Well there are properly some late era units that we can cooperate on, maybe also buildings and stuff. The should however stay as two seperate mods.

@Armchair Athlete
I don't know if the turns are hardcoded, but if they are then I might limit the mod to early and high era (I hope not). Your assistance with research would be very cool. ~:)

@BobTheTerrible
Playtester can be usefull when the mod gets to that stage. You could try out some skinning to see if you like modding. You will need Photoshop in order to skin units (I tryed PSP, but could not make it work).

[Armchair Athlete]

In this thread
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=598814#post598814

Jerome says that the turns are hardcoded. So I guess it will have to be in either early/high, or high/late. If you are starting in the early period, you could forward the date from 1087 to 1100, because you cannot launch crusades now like you could in MTW, and you could include the crusaders in the middle east (they captured Jerusaleum in 1099). Or you could start in the high period, as this would include the Teutonic Knights, Bulgarians, Portugese and Latin Kingdom of Constantinople as factions which would not be included in early (although you would lose the Irish). You could also probably push it a bit and include the Burgundians. High period was also the time where the italian City states are beginning to emerge strongly (mainly after the collapse of Sicily). So before I start posting any units, I will need to know which timeframe it is set in. I have also dug up a bit of info on buildings, do you want that posted now or do you want units done first?

Finally, good luck with your modding efforts! When I got RTW, it was good and all, but it was really a medieval mod of Rome that I was looking forward to playing. After the excellent work you did on MTW, I am very much looking forward to the finished product ~:cheers:

[Silver Rusher]

OK VH, how about this: They are two seperate mods, but made in cooperation (by that I mean borrowing from one mod, and vice versa). I have some faction banners almost done, you can borrow them if you want.

[AFM984]

I prefeer the medieval period from 1086-1456 because of the little use of gunpower. I also have most of the research material (pics and info) from the XL mod, so I can start easyer on the mod.

:bow: I'm very excited about that and I wish you the best of luck, if you allow me to add a suggistion, why not have an earlier starting date, say 800, I know it might be a bit difficult, but believe me it would be worth it, because it will have charlemagne's mighty empire, & the byzantine empire at it's best under basil the magnifesent, & the Islamic Caliphate at it's best, with half of europe as pagans.
Thank you and I wish you the best of luck VH. ~;)

[VikingHorde]

@Armchair Athlete
Hardcoded, that sucks. Well, I will properly need to think a little about how to setup the mod. I would love to have gothic knights and stuff, but I think early and high period are the best periods. A start date of 1100 could be okey, but I will need to think a little before setting the dates (start and end date).

@Silver Rusher
That would be cool. Im starting with the units and later start setting up the campaign. I don't know much about the units after 1456, but if there is some units pre-1456 that you need, let me know.

[VikingHorde]

:bow: I'm very excited about that and I wish you the best of luck, if you allow me to add a suggistion, why not have an earlier starting date, say 800, I know it might be a bit difficult, but believe me it would be worth it, because it will have charlemagne's mighty empire, & the byzantine empire at it's best under basil the magnifesent, & the Islamic Caliphate at it's best, with half of europe as pagans.
Thank you and I wish you the best of luck VH. ~;)
It was one of the periods on my list, but I have chosen the medieval period for my next project ~:)

[Amir-san]

OK VH, how about this: They are two seperate mods, but made in cooperation (by that I mean borrowing from one mod, and vice versa). I have some faction banners almost done, you can borrow them if you want.

This sounds good. Silver Rush, are you still interested in hosting the mod at SCC? VikingHorde has agreed a bit ago...

[Silver Rusher]

Yes, I am very interested and may even have you as my only host for the mods that I am making.

[tombom]

This is very interesting and I'll help a bit if you want me to.

[VikingHorde]

This is very interesting and I'll help a bit if you want me to.
Help is always welcome :bow:

~:cheers:

[JR-]

nice one VH

[Armchair Athlete]

OK thats cool. I think there is also a limit on the amount of units in the game, from memory 300 for RTW (some CA guy posted that, I just can't be bothered looking right now ~;) ) so there will still need to be a fair few Generic units. What factions are you going to include? I am at a different computer to the one which has all my info, so I cant look at it yet, but from memory in that time period there would be potentially

Crusaders
Egypt (cairo caliphate)
Almoravids (corduba caliphate)
Baghdad Caliphate (Turkish dominated)
Seljuk Turks
Armenians
Georgians
Almohads (in Morocco)
Byzantines
Aragonese
Castilian Spanish
you could probably push the portugese they had different culture but were a province of Leon at that stage and not politically independent
Kievan Rus
Volga Bulgarians
Novgorod
Navarrese (you could probably have them as rebel and save on unit space)
Venice
Genoa
Milan
Pisans or Florence (they were both nearby)
Pope
Sicilians
French
Norman English
Scots
Ireland
Danes
Swedes
Holy Roman Empire
Polish
Hungarians
Norway? I dont know if they were independant then or they were dominated by the Danes
Lithuanians
Cumans
Bohemians
EDIT - whoops forgot the Serbs
OK I think thats all, I may have missed some though. The good thing with only having it early and high at least is that you can save unit space and take out things like Gothic Knights and Janissaries, but it would be good to find out now whats going to be in there. Some good news is that the provinces are limited to about 200 I think, so plenty of room there. Anyway before I start posting too much stuff about individual factions it would be great to know whats actually in. I dont really want to post stuff and be seen as being pushy if you werent going to include it. Also tell me what factions you want stuff on and what is OK, once again just so its not like I'm pushing my opinion around. Whatever it is you want be to research I will be able to dig some stuff up for, so I'll wait for you to say something before progressing any futher ~:)

[Silver Rusher]

I really think that you will have to cut down that list, there is a limit of 32 factions in RTW, and you have to include the Senate.

[Lord_Winter]

Crusaders
Byzantines
Danes
Swedes
Norway? I dont know if they were independant then or they were dominated by the Danes


Norway I think they where independant for at least the begining of the period your suggesting...however if you are going to limit the game to 32 fractions (which is a must) you coud skip them and have them rebels since none of the northern states Danes/Swedes/Norway did anything significant during this period but warred with each others...

Danes are the only ones who have a coherent and possibly significant kingdom at the begining of this era...the swedes become important about a hundred years later...and by then the weak norway is dominated by the danes...

Could add that I am from sweden so the information above should be fairly acurate...(the level around schoolbook facts)

The crusdaers wheren't their state called the Kingdom of Jerusalem or perhaps the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem...(aint sure but the crusaders sound very very dull in my ears)

If your intrested with Byzantine info I could probably be helping since I should know quiet a deal about them...having read about all that is to be found about their 1000 AD and later armies and organisation...

[Armchair Athlete]

yeah these are all the potential factions that were actually in that time period, VH will have to say what he wants in or not. The 'senate' might be a bit tricky, as you have to have a senate relationship with three other factions, and they have to be allied, so if you did it with the pope and had the relationship with the Italian City states, they couldn't fight each other (which would be innacurate) or if you had it with the French and English or HRE, they couldn't fight each other. Another possibility is to have the three caliphates of Baghad, Cairo and Corduba allied and have Mecca as the senate. They all have enemies to fight (Iberia and Almohads for the Almoravids, crusders and Turks for the Cairo and Turks and Georgians for the Baghdad).

[Silver Rusher]

In my mod, the senate is the Khalifah, and the muslim factions are his pawns... but they are nowhere near as closely tied as the original Senate and Roman factions. Note there can only be three factions ordered by the Senate.

[VikingHorde]

@Armchair Athlete
I would like to have all the original factions from MTW (some might have other more correct names), may be even most of the factions from the XL mod. I wan't the most importnant factions to be in the game, so if you have some ideas on who should go and who should stay, let me know. Im always open to new ideas.

@Silver Rusher
Is there a 32 faction limit, that would be a shame. Of couse 32 factions is a high amount of factions. I don't know how to use the senate yet, but a lot of experiments is needed.

@Lord_Winter
Any info is more than welcome here. I wan't the factions to be as special as possible. I think the right name is "Kingdom of Jerusalem" and it could be a better name for them. The Latin Kingdom was constantinopel and other captured provinces of the crusade in about 1204 (I think).

[VikingHorde]

Some screenies of my Royal knights ~:)

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=2&x=20828

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=2&x=20829

[Lord_Winter]

@Armchair Athlete
Very nice knights would fit fine as early royal knights I think...or feudal knights...just wondering about the helm...

@VikingHorde
Any info is more than welcome here. I wan't the factions to be as special as possible. I think the right name is "Kingdom of Jerusalem" and it could be a better name for them. The Latin Kingdom was constantinopel and other captured provinces of the crusade in about 1204 (I think).

The Latin Kingdom is to my knowledge short for the Latin Kingdom of Constantinople or something....could look in one of those dusty tomes sitting in the shelves...but it is something realitivly un important...at least at this stage since I guess you are begining with an early age mod...

Could begin to compile the unit list for byza just say what the period is...and how many unit spaces there are to fill up...also for the units in the byzantine army a lot of the skins for Rome will be fully usable with minor editing...

[ah_dut]

vh　good to see that you've got around the grey peasant icon thing ~:cheers:

[VikingHorde]

@Lord_Winter
The mod should be set up like with a Early campaignstart of 1100 and a high campaignstart of 1206. Late era might not be done, but we will see. I don't know how many units the factions should have, but it's okey to make lists of units.

@ah_dut
Was there a "grey peasant" problem? I just inserted an icon in \Data\UI\UNITS\ROMANS_JULII with the name WEST_ROYAL_KNIGHTS.TGA. Then I just put WEST_ROYAL_KNIGHTS into the text files.

[Dirty peasant]

Hi everyone! Nice work on those knights ~D ! Ive done some medieval units and posted the screens on http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=13162 and http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2089 maybe they
will be useful for MTW mod ~:)

[Armchair Athlete]

Hey VH, nice work on the Royal Knights, they look cool. If you ask me, out of the factions I listed earlier you could take out the Almohads and combine their troops with the almoravids, take out the navaresse as they never expanded beyond their borders, take out the Lithuanians as they didn't do much in the early time period and maybe Norway, making them rebel. That way, Sweeden or Denmark will conquer them and become much stronger, and I think it would be better to have stronger Scandanavian powers so they might start raiding and also to make the ineveitable Sweeden-Denmark fight more interesting. You could also take out the Pisans/Florence, and make them rebel, with a rebel garrison blocking access from Genoa, but Venice or Milan could conquer it. This is because Genoa could conquer Sardinia and Corsica fairly quickly, helping them along, while it would be tougher for the other two. That would make three Italian factions, so you could have them as the ones allied with the pope as the senate. It would be a bit innacurate, as they couldn't immediately fight each other, but in the earlier period they were much busier fighting the Holy Roman Empire and the Sicilians, so it would be OK. Also, as they would be single city factions (probably the only single city factions in the game) they could use help like money/unit rewards from the pope from fulfiling missions, like the Romans with the senate. Of course, the Italians would be less overpowered. If you are doing a high period, then you take out the Irish who were conquered by the Norman English, and the Sicilians, as the Norman Sicilian line was extuinguished in 1194 with the death of Tancred, the last Norman King, and the Island of Sicily reverted to the control of the HRE with southern italy becoming rebel. Possibly replace them with the Teutonic Knights and the Bulgarians. You could do like you did in MTW XL and take out the Bohemians and replace them with the Latin Kingdom of Constantinople. Of course this is just IMHO.

[Leet Eriksson]

Almoravids (corduba caliphate)
Baghdad Caliphate (Turkish dominated)
Almohads (in Morocco)

I'd like to comment on all three if you wouldn't mind, the Almoravids took over the corduba caliphate, they were based in Marrakesh, their domain was around morroco and algeria aswell as half of spain. Later on the Almohads usurped them through a religious revolt and extended their domain as far as egypt and moved their capital to Seville.

The Baghdad Caliphate was known as the Abassid Caliphate.

I would be glad to provide information on these factions, and armour/weapon discriptions (i assume the units will be from MTW, so the names are set i beleive?).

[Armchair Athlete]

Also, just one idea with the Russians/Volga Bulgarians which I think is pretty cool. Most of the wars fought between them were not so much for territorial aquisition, but for influence over the minor tribes. To represent this, you could have about half a dozen units that can only be built in a couple of provinces, like the Spartan Hoplites in RTW. CA did this by having spartan troops requiring an invisible resource, called 'Sparta'. You will need to have a building that can be built by Novogrod, Kievan Rus and the Volga Bulgarians, maybe the Cumans too. The units would add something to the army list, and would be better than just mercenaries, as anybody can just wander in and hire them, and it is more realistic that only the Steppe factions can build them. Also, this would mean that not so many units are required in those factions army lists, and so frees up some unit space. I can supply the names and descriptions of the tribal troops, but from your XL mod there would be the Bashkorts, buildable in the Volga Bulgarian home provinces, and the Chernye Klobuki, buildable in the Kievan Rus home provinces (although they were historically much more widespread). I have some others, but still finalising information for them.

While on the subject of the Rus, here is a website describing arms and armour that might be useful to you.

http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory/medievalarmor/partii.htm

[Armchair Athlete]

thanks for that info faisal, I'm not really 100% sure on the Muslim factions, I knew that the Almoravids were invited into Spain to help the local Muslim chieftains defend against the reconquista and then took power, then the Almohads took over from them, but one thing I'm not sure about, were they actually a different people or not? I was under the impression they were, or were they just different sects or 'political parties' for want of a better term in Islamic North Africa? This has been bugging me for ages, and I haven't really found a good answer on it yet.

[Leet Eriksson]

Well racially they were different iirc both Almohads and Almoravids were from different berber tribes from southern morroco and algeria, both have different ideaologies, but are not different sects you can call them political parties if you will.

The Almoravids (corrupted from Al Murabiteen/Murabitin) were formed to defend Muslim spain from the christian kingdoms in the north (hence the name Al Murabiteen, defence of Islam), their domain was around Morroco and southern Spain, they also established Al Ribat (stems from the word Murabit), they were usurped by the Almohads after the death of one of their leaders (can't recall the name). The Almohads(corrupted from Al Muwahideen) were formed on a pretty extreme ideaology wich is to unite the world under the banner of Islam (comes from Tawhid or Muwahid i think which means unity). The Almohads were initally succeeding by expanding much further in north africa than the Almoravids, and also partially in spain, but internal problems, the Merinid revolt in Marrakesh, and Granada's Revolt and also external problems, defeat at Navas de Tolosa (called al Kark by the arabs) and the Reconquista lead to its downfall.

[Lord_Winter]

Okey more questions...

Will you use hidden resources or other limitations to create region specific units...

Will the campaign map be changed...since Byzantines are not that well represented by the current one at least not in a 1206 setting and I think it would be even worse to try represent central europe, france and england with the current map...

[hellenes]

Great idea VH!!!
I wich i could help but i have problems with my internet provider :(
AS an advice the Knights of honour demo has shield and banners for more than 100 factions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wish you good luck and if my internet stability is solved my email is arxidamos2003@yahoo.gr

Hellenes

[VikingHorde]

@Armchair Athlete
As always, you have a lot of good ideas. The mod should be historycal correct, so your russian ideas could be cool.

@faisal
Thanks for the info. I don't know much about muslim factions so any info on them is good.

@Lord_Winter
I don't know much about the hidden resources yet because I have only at this time made new units. I would like to add a good amount of region specific units.
The campaign map will be totaly redone, because the current one isn't that good of the medieval period. I hope to add about 150-200 provinces with 32 factions and as meny units as possible.

@hellenes
Thanks for letting me know about the game, I will check it out. Any help help with the mod is welcome.

[VikingHorde]

Hi everyone! Nice work on those knights ~D ! Ive done some medieval units and posted the screens on http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=13162 and http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2089 maybe they
will be useful for MTW mod ~:)
Good work on those units. I could use some of them, the rest would be good for the Citadel: Total War mod because of the high amount of armour.

[Dirty peasant]

Ive posted archive on twcenter forum ~:cool:

[Leet Eriksson]

@faisal
Thanks for the info. I don't know much about muslim factions so any info on them is good.

Pleased to help ~:)

I'll try my best answering any further questions so keep em coming, i don't know all Muslim factions like turkish factions for example, i'm not that knowledgable on them, hopefully one of the resident turkish forummers might know about it, but i know north african and arab factions.

[Thedevil003]

This sounds good. Silver Rush, are you still interested in hosting the mod at SCC? VikingHorde has agreed a bit ago...
OT:
Really? I see a thread here at the .org, a thread at TWC in which two other members, at twc have made units and map modification, but none at SSC. Quit spamming these boards with your advertisements, this isn’t a competition. :furious3: Sad, I think.

[Sebastian Seth]

How big map are you going to use? Is sweeden and finland going
to have land connection? And how much russia will there be?

[Armchair Athlete]

OK here is a preliminary army list for the cumans. Its just some ideas for them, there are no Cuman sources of writing so it is reliant on others, such as the Rus and Byzantine. As such, there is not much description of Cuman terms, so to name the troops I have had to use things like 'Cuman Warriors', 'Cuman Cavalry' etc. Usually I don't like using these generic terms, but in this case it is unaviodable. I have also done a basic bit of stats, of course this could be subject to balance changes but it will give you a general idea about how good each troop should be. I have also put what 'tier' they might be built in, like how in RTW there are 5 different tiers corresponding to town hall sizes. As CA has said that population levels are hardcoded, I think they will have to stay the way they are. I have not put poor morale as a trait for any units, because I think it was a good move with your XL mod to raise morale of all units by a small amount, and one that this mod could benefit from. Finally here is a website that has pictures of cuman warriors, weapons and some buildings. Should help with the artwork http://www.kipchak.com/interested/

Eastern Militia - attack 3 defense 5 (shield 3 armour 0 skill 2) weapon - spear men - 80 cost - 100 upkeep - 80 Tier - 1
Generic Eastern Militia unit. Buildable by the Rus, Novogrod, Armenians, Georgians, Cumans and Byzantines. Nothing special really, just a cheap garrison unit, built when nothing else is available. Due to the limited number of units, I thought that the lower level units should be mostly generic (like in MTW).

Eastern Spearmen - attack 4 defense 8 (shield 4 armour 1 skill 3) weapon - spear men - 120 cost - 175 upkeep - 120 Tier - 2
Generic Eastern Spear unit. Buildable by the aforementioned eastern factions.

Eastern Skirmishers - missile attack 7 melee attack 3 defense - 4 (shield 3, skill 1) weapon - Javelin men 80 cost 135 upkeep 110 Tier 1
Generic Eastern Skirmisher. Throws Javelins. Vulnerable to missiles.

Eastern Archers - missile attack 7 melee attack 2 defense 3 (skill 3) weapon short bow men 80 cost 225 upkeep 170 Tier 2
Generic Eastern Archer. Shoots arrows. Vulnerable to missiles.

Horse Archers - missile attack 7 melee attack 2 defense 2 (skill 2) weapon short bow men 54 cost 440 upkeep 150 Tier 2
Generic Horse Archer. Vulnerable to missiles. Shoots arrows.

Cuman Warriors - missile attack 9 melee attack 10 defense 10 (armour 1, shield 4, skill 5) weapon short bow men 80 cost 500 upkeep 220 Tier 3
Cuman Warriors are archers that also have decent close combat statistics. Same as the Cuman Warriors in your XL Mod. One of only two half decent Cuman foot units, most of their units are mounted. Better shooters than normal archers too, to represent the more powerful eastern compund bow. I feel that they should not get the long range tag however, as bows were almost always outranged by crossbows.

Pecheneg Auxiliaries - attack 7 defense 13 (shield 6, skill 6, armour 1) weapon spear men 120 cost 450 upkeep 220 Tier 3
When the Cumans made their push to the western steppes, they defeated the Pechenegs, another nomadic steppe people. They crushed a large horde of Pechenegs near the Danube river with the help of the Byzantines. The defeated Pechnegs either fled or were absorbed into the Cuman armies. As the mongols were later to do, the Cumans mostly made them fight dismounted and ahead of the standard Cuman troops, to help stop them fleeing. They could either fight, or run and be shot down by the Cumans behind them. Despite all this, they were still skilled fighters. For balance reasons too I thought they should have spears to help defend against cavalry, and as a cheap anchor for the Cuman battle line. There is no clear historical reference as to how they were equipped, so you have a bit of liberty here to do what you like. Here they have a large shield

Cuman Cavalry - missile attack 9 melee attack 6 defense 7 (shield 4, skill 3) weapon short bow men 54 cost 600 upkeep 220 Tier 3
The bulk of the Cuman army was made up of these cavalry archers. Fast, with small shields and armed with compound bows, they are much more dangerous than standard horse archers, and can fight in close combat if need be, although their only hand to hand weapon is the Turkish knife. Note they are NOT vulnerable to missiles. They should be quite similar to the Parthian cavalry in RTW. At the website I wrote earlier they have heaps of pictures of Cuman cavalry.

Cuman Raiders - missile attack 7 melee attack 10 defense 9 (armour 1, skill 4, shield 4) weapon axe men 54 cost 700 upkeep 250 Tier 4
Cumans were fond of raids, a noticeable one being the sack of Kiev. These Cuman cavalry are armed with axes, to hammer down wooden doors in the search for loot. They are also armed with a few javelins, to pepper enemy formations before closing in for the kill. Once again, for balance reasons I thought the Cumans should get an axe wielding unit, to help them out against armoured apponents (in RTW some armour is ignored). Also gave them javelins, as they were a weapon used by Cuman cavalry, but not very often. They would make good flanking units, but are still fairly fragile for a tier 4 unit, so aren't too strong I think.

Cuman Heavy Cavalry - attack 9 defense 20 (skill 5, armour 15) weapon Lance men 54 cost 1100 upkeep 375 Tier 5
Cuman Heavy cavalry are well armoured cavalry lancers, able to smash and trample enemy formations. Armed with a Lance for a devestating charge, they are the decisive arm of the Cuman forces. They will have a hard time catching more nimble lighter cavalry, and will only be able to fight them if they somehow corner them. These would be the same as the Cuman Heavy cavalry in your XL mod. They should take two turns to build, to represent their scarcity, and should only be buildable in the Cuman home provinces. They have no shield, like the Scythian Nobles in RTW.

Cuman Noble Cavalry - missile attack 9 defense 15 (skill 5, shield 4, armour 6) weapon bow men varies cost none (generals bodygaurd unit) upkeep varies Tier all
Cuman Noble cavalry are armoured cavalry archers, well able to shoot opponents from a distance before closing in for the kill in Hand to Hand combat. The Cuman generals and their gaurdsmen were well versed in use of the Bow and other Cuman weapons. This would be a generals bodygaurd unit for the Cumans. they would look similar to Steppe heavy Cavalry from MTW. I also thought giving them bows would be a good idea, as it seems at the moment the generals in RTW are a bit suicidal, so maybe it will help stop them charging enemy spear formations, as they would be shooting from behind the line. As the unit is quite small, this is not too overpowered I think.


Well thats what I have got for the Cumans, a nomadic, predominately cavalry army is how they operated historically, and this can translate into the game with all cavalry armies intially attacking enemy settlements, with infantry detachments marching up behind to help assault the town. The cavalry armies will also help to represent their fast raiding nature. Tell me if there is anything you dont like about the list and I will change it. Once again statistics are only meant as a rough guide to how effective they should be.

EDIT - 11 new units

[Leet Eriksson]

Great job armchair athlete, you wouldn't mind if i borrow your style of describing units? ~;p

I'll put up a unit list for Almohad/Almoravid and Abassid armies, maybe a bit of the egyptians too. Most Islamic armies had an emphasis on attack over defence, good weapons but light armour.

Anyways i'll do the foot units first and i'll post em up here if anyone wouldn't mind... ~;p

[VikingHorde]

@Sebastian Seth
I hope to get the original map extended and make new redo most/all the provinces. The map should be extended north and east with most of sweden, norway and bigger parts of Russia on the map. I don't know how much im going to make of the map, because a lot of modders have joined the last few days. There will only be landbriges if the land is connected on the map.

@Armchair Athlete
Nice work, that should get things started :charge:

[Lord_Winter]

Lost a longer post but...

Here is a list of Byzantines units not complete or entirly reserched since I'm putting it into print with only the reasources of my minor library and of course the net...however also note that I will compile a quiet short list of actual units and one as long of mercenaries since in both the early and the late age the Byzantines where once more turning away from the tried and proved Thematic system towards the unreliable mercenaries...and somewhere around 1261 (the recapture of constantinople) their reliance was fast becoming their doom...since they no longer had the ecconomy to support this type of warfare...

Also some general thoughts...the Byzantine infantry should be overpriced or in some other way less attractive then equal infantry of other nations making cavalry a more attractive choice since 2/3 of the armies most often was just cavalry....also mercenaries should be attracted at high rates in at least Constantinopel and probalby Nicea and Greece (in M:TW terms)...

Early Cavalry
Thematic Kataphracts : The remnants of the more and more disfunktioning Thematic system...the texture could easily be something along the lines of the partian chatapract or cappudocian cavalry...with small changes possibly the addition of the bow...
Statistics: V High Defence, V High Charge, Good Attack, Good Moral, Wedge formation

Kataphracts Archers : Since the Byzantine heavy cavalry often used bow and lance the best would be to have a single Catapract unit with both however if this is not possible two would do...
Statistics: High Defence (more lightly armoured rider), Good Charge, Good Attack, Good Moral, (NOTE: No circle thing like other horse archers got...however possibly the wedge)

Both Era Cavalry
Pronoiarios : Soldiers which where paid in land or lesser nobles which had been given enought land to send someone else...usually of less quality then the catapract however more common in later times...the pronoia should have lance however with lot less armour then catatanks, possibly only a small round shield, open helmet and chainmail...
Statistics: Good Defence, V High Charge, Good Attack, Good Moral, Wedge

Light Pronoiarios : Se above but equipted
Even lighter armour, bows and short spears as swifter and nearly horse archer like but also adequate in close combat...
Statistics: Normal in most stuff, Good Moral, Good Charge, Possibly Good Attack

Noble Retianers : The great land owning nobles in lesser asia are rich and have quiet some entourages of heavy horsemen. These horsmen are lighter then the traditional Katapractoi and heavier then the Pronoiarios however they are also less discplined and harder to control. The also lack the any distance weapons...
Statistics: V High Charge, V Good Attack, Good Moral, Good Defence, Impetious, Wedge,

Armenian Heavy Cavalry : During a long period of Byzantine history the orthodox cristians of armenia where at the forefront of battle against the diverse enemies of the emperor...sometimes semi independant, sometimes part of the empire and sometimes in full war...no theme fed more rebellious warlords, nobles and wannebe emperors then armeniacon...here the great landlords ruled absolut for long times...Trainable in eastern parts of the empire...(current pontus, ancyra and manzaka) historically these units lost use as the eastern provinces where lost...
Statistics : High Charge, Good Attack, Good Defencem, Good Moral, Wedge

Late Cavalry
Stratiotai : Byzantine cavalry with a mix of byzantine and western gear such as true lances and heavier plate armour...but still with a special eastern touch...no bows however this is done with the early....
Statistics: V High Defence, V High Charge, V Good Attack, Good Moral, Wedge formation

Infantry: (All byzantine infantry should have slightly higher upkeep and cost then regular units of their kind due that Byzantine armies usually relied on their supperior cavalry...inf should be supportive never dominate their armies..)
Eastern Militia: Look above...Byzantine Militia was used soley for the defence of fortresses and strongholds and are therfore sub standard in the otherwise quiet well trained army...

Psiloi: The main part of the byzantine fot folk is made up of light foot men with bow, swords and a small shield...these units used the slightly supperior eastern composite bows...
Statistics: Common archers with a slightly more powerful bow

Skutatoi: Skutatoi as the common fotmen or spearmen of the Byzantine armies are often called carried a larger shield and long spear and often opperated in mixed formations with bows (which we will be unable to recreate i guess)...
Statistics: Slightly supperior to common spears mostly moral wise and with large shields...

Ethnic Inf : Either turkish/armenian in the east or slavic/albanian in the west these units where of lower quality then the skutatoi but often of more use on the offence...light armour...helmets...shields and swords or other short close combat weapons...
Statistics: A weak swords unit...which probably holds until the cavalry comes...possibly easier to hide in trees and other terrain...

Varagian Guard: The famous russ/norse/britton viking bodyguard of the Emperor possibly a generals unit otherwise a powerful infantry unit which should either be to expencive for mass production or take 3+ turns to build to make it unattractive enought to only appear in small quiantities...Great Axes and heavy chainmails are their weapons...possibly also a shield used against arrows before the battle is closed...
Statistics: V Good Attack, Heavy Armour, V Good Charge, V Good Moral,

Mercenaries
Russ Infantry (Vikings from M:TW) (EARLY)
Pesheng Horse Archers/Scyticon (HA...like those in R:TW already) (EARLY)
Normand Knights (Early Knights) (EARLY)
Normand Retainers (Think mounted sergeants but useful) (EARLY)
Normand Sergeants (Spearmen...of good quality but poor moral) (EARLY)
Scythicon (horse archers...possibly with spears and bows) (Both)
Latinicon (Feudal Knights for Hire) (LATE)
Italic Crossbowmen (Italian sergenats with crossbows) (LATE)
Turkopoloi (Both fot and horse Turkish units) (Both)
Alan Cavalry (M:TW) (Both)
Catalan Great Company (no idea how to implement them since they were many thousand strong but it would be cool to do so...these guys kicked first the turkish in lesser asia soundly...then when the emperor payed them in false coinage they rebelled and threw back at least two byzantine armies without any major losses as well as rampaged from near Constantinopel to Grece devestating the country side for a long while...in greece they conquered i think it was Achea from the reigning Latin Duke...also a unbleivable victory...)

Okey this was what got out of my mind...not as good as the first list i did but I will complement it in time...there are certainly some errors in spelling above which I fault tiredness and irritation of stupid forums for... ~D

[Armchair Athlete]

Great job armchair athlete, you wouldn't mind if i borrow your style of describing units? ~;p

Go for it mate, I'm interested to see what you'll put ~:cheers: Hopefully in the next few days time I'll put up a list for the Armenians

EDIT - nice list Lord Winter, with the Catalan Grand Comany (pretty good weren't they?!) they mostly consisted of Almughavars (a rarely seen unit from MTW). When I get around to doing the Aragonese I'll put some stuff on them.

[Armchair Athlete]

Well, sitting here bored, so I might as well put up the Armenians now. Unofrtunately there are not a lot of pictures as to what the Armenian soldiers looked like, and Armenian sources (like most other Medieval sources) are more concerned with describing exploits of the Kings rather than what soldiers were called, or how they were equipped. At the start of the game period, the Armenians were still very much an eastern faction, but through contact with the crusaders, became gradually more westernised, ending up with western style knights. Some historically correct names have been used, but others have had to be vague. This website gives at least some pictures on the Armenians. http://www.dbaol.com/armies.htm

Eastern Militia - already done earlier

Eastern Spearmen - already done earlier

Eastern Archers - already done earlier

Eastern Skirmishers - already done earlier

Horse Archers - already done earlier

Caucasian Mountaineers - attack 8 defense 7 (shield 3, armour1, skill 3) weapon small sword/knife men 80 cost 200 upkeep 140 Tier 2
When the Armenian Naxarars (lords) fled Armenia from the onslught of the Seljuk turks, they bought their retinues and warriors with them. Caucasian mountaineers were one group of mercanaries that fought for the Armenians, for the promise of plunder. They are tough fighters, having lived in harsh mountain regions, however are not well equipped and will not stand up to more heavily armed troops. They are experts at hiding in various terrain types.

Armenian Infantry - attack 8 defense 13 (shield 6, armour 3, skill 4) weapon sword or other hand weapon men 80 cost 350 upkeep 175 Tier 3
The bulk of the Armenian army is made up their infantry. When Armenia was governed by the Byzantines, large numbers were drafted into the Byzantine army, and many posts in Asia Minor were manned by Armenian troops. After the Byzantine defeat at Manzikert (spelling?) and Asia Minor subsequently being overrun by the Seljuk turks, the Armenian militia members left the byzantine army to return to their homelands, and to the new Armenian province of Silicia. These would be like the ones in your XL mod.

Armenian Borderers - attack 10 defense 10 (shield 4, armour 1, skill 5) weapon axe men 60 cost 375 upkeep 195 Tier 3
The passes in the mountainous areas surrounding both the Armenian homelands as well as Armenian Cilicia are patrolled by these border gaurds. They can hide anywhere, and many a Turkish raid has been stopped before their targets by a well timed charged from the border gaurds, suprising and defeating them. Because ambushing was the best way to defeat the Turkish invaders, heavy equipment cannot be taken, and so these men should not be used for the front line of a battle, but for hiding and ambushing unwary opponents. Only buildable in the Armenian home provinces, plus the Armenian home kingdom (currently owned by the Seljuk Turks).

Early Didebuls - attack 8 defense 15 (shield 6, armour 4, skill 5) weapon spear men 54 cost 550 upkeep 250 Tier 4
Didebuls were the minor land owning classes in Armenia, comparable to the feudal knights of Western Europe. They were responsible for security of the surrounding area, and so needed to be skilled with use of arms, favouring use of horses. Like many Armenians, they left their ravaged homelands and journeyed to Cilicia. This uit would represent the Armenians before they had great contact with the crusaders, and so their appearance would definately be eastern. They are spear armed cavalry, and so would have a strong charge. Like in your XL mod.

Latin Auxiliaries - attack 11 defense 17 (shield 6, armour 5, skill 6) weapon spear men 60 cost 700 upkeep 275 Tier 4
When the crusaders first came into contact with the Armenians in Cilicia, they were pleased to have some friendly neighbours. After the crusaders were successful in capturing Jerusaleum, and the subsequent infighting between the states, many went on to act as Mercenaries to other Christian powers nearby, such as Armenia. Their amount was bolstered by large numbers of crusaders leaving the fourth crusade shortly after the capture of Constantinople. They are expensive to use, but have good experience from fighting a variety of enemies, and so can be relied upon in battle.

High Didebuls - attack 10 defense 23 (shield 6, armour 12, skill 5) weapon lance men 54 cost 1150 upkeep 400 Tier 5
Contact with the crusaders led to many of their practices being adopted by the Armenians, including their arms and armour. The Didebuls, minor landowning classes, became heavily armoured knights, able to defeat most opponents they can catch. It is tremendously expensive to equip a warrior in this fashion, but the results are often worth the cost! The high didebuls should take two turns to build, and once again only be buildable in the Armenian home provinces, but not the old Armenian Kingdom. They would look like the ones in your XL mod.

Hospitaller Foot Knights - attack 13 defense 23 (shield 6, armour 10, skill 7) weapon sword men 40 cost 900 upkeep 350 Tier 5
The Knights Hospitaller were founded originally to gaurd hospitals for pilgrims in the holy land, but soon evolved into a fully fledged fighting order. Only nobility could be accepted, and had to undertake strict vows to join. The Knights hospitaller were all full time elite knights, rarely running from battle and fighting on against desperate odds! The Knights hospitaller also had many estates in Aragon and assisted in the reconquista, and were also given many border estates by the Cilician armenians, to act as a buffer against the Turks. They could fight just as effectively dismounted as they could mounted. They should take two turns to build, but not receive any territorial restrictions, as historically they had a vast range of estates. They are good, but expensive, and they are a small unit too, so I hope that this balances them well.

Eastern Crossbows - missile attack 12 melee attack 4 defense 8 (skill 4, armour 4) weapon crossbow men 80 cost 550 upkeep 200 Tier 5
generic eastern Crossbow uit. The reason I think they should be high tier is because they are very good shooters, and will outrange bows, and are an excellent counter to horse archers (as they were historically). As horse archers are vulnerable to missiles, and have shorter range, it would be too unbalancing if crossbows could be had earlier, and factions like the Cumans and Turks would be in a lot of trouble. Of course they would have a slower rate of fire than bows.

Bedouin Warriors - attack 7 defense 9 (shield 4, skill 5), weapon spear men 54 cost 400 upkeep 110 Tier 3
Bedouins were arab nomads who lived almost entirely off their Camels. Camels were used for food, clothing, mounts, milk and even camel urine was used to wash hair, getting rid of lice! Armenians made use of groups of Bedouins in many of their armies after the Turks arrived, becuase the Seljuks were driving the Bedouins off their land just as they were driving off the Armenians. the Bedouins are camel mounted warriors, who should cause fear in horses but be vulnerable to missiles. Fairly fragile, but with a decent charge value due to the spear.

Naxarar - attack 10 defense 16 (shield 6, armour 4, skill 6), weapon spear men varies cost none (generals bodygaurd unit) upkeep varies Tier none
The Naxarar were the significant land owners of Armenia, like the feudal lords of Europe. They were administrators in peace time, and warriors in war time, fighting as a well equipped heavy cavalry unit. You could have an early and high version, like in your XL mod, to represent the adoption of European arms and armour.

Finally, this unit would be a mercenary unit, hireable in Cilicia through to the Armenian homelands and Georgia.
Azat Cavalry - attack 10 defense 12 (armour 3, shield 4, skill 5) weapon spear men 54 cost 675 upkeep 300 Tier none (mercenary)
The Azats were the cavalry of Armenia. After the Turks over ran he Armenian homeland, the Azats found themselves landless, and so many became mercenaries, offering themselves to not just the highest bidder, but every bidder, be it Seljuk, Byzantine, Georgian or Armenian. They served in with many different factions, sometimes even fighting against each other, and due to their skills as fast cavalrymen were in constant demand. This unit is the Armenian heavy cavalry of MTW. I made their upkeep higher than what their stats should suggest to represent the fact they are mercenaries, and ment to complement an army, not form the bulk of it. Should be useful to the Turks, who did not have good cavalry lancers.

Well thats the Armenians, when making the list i have tried to think about balance as well as historical accuracy, but obviously come the final version things might need to be changed.

EDIT - 11 new units

[VikingHorde]

@Lord_Winter and Armchair Athlete
Good stuff, lots of good units :bow:

~:cheers:

[Lord_Winter]

EDIT - nice list Lord Winter, with the Catalan Grand Comany (pretty good weren't they?!) they mostly consisted of Almughavars (a rarely seen unit from MTW). When I get around to doing the Aragonese I'll put some stuff on them.

The catalans where mostly light infantry (almughavars...in M:TW) and of a smaller part Heavy Cavalry... and they should be quiet good i think since the emperor payed several times the normal mercenary tax to per soldier and season...and to my knowledge they never suffered a major defeat...in the east at least...

@Armchair Athlete
Very nice armenian list...maybe a few of those units should be available to the byzantines in their eastern provinces...dunno...but Armenian Bordermen and Intantry seemed to have formed the bulk of the fot folk until right before the early campaign begins...

@Viking...
What is the roof for unit count...heard two hundred but it would be nice to know exactly...and will you use generic units which can be used for every fraction or specific units which can only be used (looking correctly) for one fraction...if the first option I think it would probably be good to make a list of fractions and units eliminating down until we reach the limit because with about 15-20 units and 32 fractions it wont reach even near the limits...

[McFlugle]

An idea for the Senate problem: Have the Pope become the senate and have the 3 factions controlled, be the 3 independent crusader states; Jerusalem, Tripoli and Edessa. (antioch was a Byzantine protectorate at that time) That way the crusader states have some ability to fight enemies, yet since you are making them 3 different factions they are more realistic and not so dominating as a fully united crusader state was in other mods.


is it any good?

[Armchair Athlete]

@Lord Winter - yeah the Byzantines used a lot of Armenian units, but by that time period (1100 AD) most of them had left the Byzantine army. Some eve betrayed the Byzantines, helping the Turks to attack the Byzzies! There were lots of Armenian/Byzantine wars. But they would be able to hire Azat cavalry (Armenian Heavy Cavalry) as mercenaries. Also the game supports a maximum of 300 units. Said in this thread by Jerome
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=37359

EDIT - maybe after we post potential army lists, we could say how many new units there are, so at the end we can just tally them up and see if we have too many.

[GodsPetMonkey]

Also the game supports a maximum of 300 units.

Some quick numbers, theres 264 units in RTW (no mods) and about 180 in MTW with VI.
Some of those RTW units are repeats though, just using different models (like the peasants).

Now, with (say) 30 factions, that means each faction can have up to 10 units, if every unit in the game was unique to one faction (a bit small). But if every unit that was in MTW:VI was put into RTW, we would still have 120 or so to spare. Whilst you will need more generic units, I think for now is safe to presume you dont have to go overboard with them.
As an example, if you had 30 factions, and 5 culture groups with 6 factions each, if you made a generic peasant unit for one culture group, you would have effectively freed up 5 slots for unique units (if all factions in that group would have used a unique peasant unit instead). I should guess that these 'savings' would add up pretty quickly.

[jimmyM]

Is there a way to mod cities or buildings? - e.g, so you can have Constantinople on the Golden Horn, the Haghia Sofia etc. (i haven't noticed any cities in RTW right on the coast...)sorry, not reallly sure what all this (especially the buildings) entails, it wouldnt just be re-skinning...

[VikingHorde]

@Viking...
What is the roof for unit count...heard two hundred but it would be nice to know exactly...and will you use generic units which can be used for every fraction or specific units which can only be used (looking correctly) for one fraction...if the first option I think it would probably be good to make a list of fractions and units eliminating down until we reach the limit because with about 15-20 units and 32 fractions it wont reach even near the limits...
There will be a lot of standard units like in MTW (feudal knights, FMAA ect.), so I think there should be good space for most factions to have uniqe units.

@McFlugle
A very good idea, never thought of that one. I was thinking of the Italian city states as an idea, but this could be good too.

@jimmyM
Im not a 100% shure about building limits, but we are planing to add a lot of new building. There are at 4-5 modders on this project now, so it's looking good.

[Armchair Athlete]

whoa, 4-5, where are the other modders?

[Dirty peasant]

@Armchair Athlete
Visit http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showforum=45 topic MTW

[Armchair Athlete]

ahh OK, I saw the thread posted there when Viking Horde first started it but it seemed to disappear off the front page so I thought it died...obviously not!

[Leet Eriksson]

Thanks armchair ~:) , i have for now done a list of Foot Units (Archers, Javelineers, Spearmen and Oddball units) this is my first draft, took me a couple of days to write down in note pad:

Spearmen:

Mutatawi'a - Attack 7 Defence 2

Volunteers, they provided the money for their own arms and armour, or were sponsored by other wealthy but less than able to fight people. Undisiciplined, disorganised and impetuos. Armed with short spears (1 - 1.5 meter), sword and whatever armour/shield they could afford.

Jund - Attack 8 Defence 10

Basic soldiers, the rank and file of any Islamic army, carrying a spear, circular shield made of metal, turban helmet and a light mail of chain, they are armed with swords but are not effective in prolonged melees.

Nubian Spearmen - Attack 10 Defence 16 (Unique to Egypt)

Spearmen recruited from sudan, more disciplined than Jund and more organised, armed with a long spear, oval iron shields, chainmail under a heavy robe, and turban helmets.

Askari - Attack 12 Defence 18 (Abassids only)

Heavy Infantry, these are drilled and trained daily, very disciplined and organised, they carry a long spear, oval shield, wear lamellar armoured (chainmail enforced with rectangular plates) and conical helmets. They are also armed with swords although not effective but better than the Jund.

Muwahid Foot Soldiers - Attack 14 Defence 12 (Almohad/Almoravid only)

Spearment Recruited from northern parts of Algeria or Tunisia, over confident and impetous. They carry long spears, swords and large tower shields.

Andalucian Armoured Infantry - Attack 12 Defence 20 (Region Specific to Southern Spain)

Due to Spains cooler climate compared to the hotter climate in north africa, the muslim soldiers under the corduba caliphate copied their spanish counter parts in arms and armour.

Archers:

Archers - Missile Attack 8 Melee Attack 5 Defence 5 (Unit Specific for Abbasids and Egyptians)

Ranged Infantry, wearing a heavy robe, armed with recurve bows and a long sword. Can skirmish but only in self defence or while flanking.

Nubian Archers - Missile Attack 12 Melee Attack 4 Defence 3 (Unique to Egypt)

Archers also recruited from Sudan, very accurate and live up to their reputation in deadly accuracy. Armed with bows and swords, not much armour besides cloth though, cannot skirmish aswell as their other counterparts.

Berber Archers - Missile Attack 9 Melee attack 5 Defence 4 (Specific for Almohads/Almoravids)

Archers recruited by the almohads and almoravids, armed with bows and a sword, can skirmish aswell.

Andalucian Crossbowmen - Missile Attack 12 Melee Attack 4 Defence 6 (Almohad/Almoravid only)

Christian mercenaries recruited from areas under muslim control in spain, they use Crossbows and are armoured by light chainmail. Armed with swords, but for self defence.

Javelins:

Berber Javelinmen - Missile Attack 16 Melee attack 7 defence 2 (Almohads/Almoravid specific)

Used by the almohads/almoravids to skirmish and harass, armed with heavy javelins,swords, long wooden shields and heavy robes, only protection for their heads is the turbans, they can skirmish very well and can act as light infantry.

Nubian Javelinmen - Missile Attack 18 Melee Attack 4 Defence 2 (Egypt Specific)

Excellent skirmishers but cannot melee effectively, these are recruited from sudan and they bring their own equipment with them, only armed with heavy javelins (last one is kept for self defence) and light cloth.

Sword Units:

Arab Warband - Missile Attack 14 Melee Attack 12 Defence 7 (Abassid only)

Undisiciplined, unorganised but very speedy, armed with swords, light javelins, wooden circular shields and light chainmail, also turban helmets.

Blackguard - Missile Attack 15 Melee Attack 12 Defence 10 (Almohad/Almoravid only)

The Elite of the Almoravid (Blackguard) and Almohad (AuM ~;) ) i combined both into 1 becuase they acted almost the same under both the command of El Mansur and Yusuf Ibn Tashufin but had different names. Armed with heavy javelins and towershields, chainmail, turban helmets and swords.

EDIT - Defence was supposed to be 15, not 5, but thats pretty overpowered considered they also throw javelins.

Futuwwas - Missile Attack 10 Melee attack 14 Defence 9 (Egypt Only)

A military system developed in egypt, called the futuwwas, considered an elite form of infantry and could be used as cavalry when needed, armed with recurve bows, long sabers, round shields made of metal, turban helmets and chainmail armour. Armed with light lances when on horses.

Axemen (Taken from MTW ~;p) :

Ghazi Fanatics (Foot version) - Attack 16 Defence 3

Employed to pillage the country side and paid by whatever loot they lay their hands on, they prefer axes and wooden shields and use speed for defence.

Abyssinian Guard - Attack 18 Defence 8 (Egypt only)

Recruited from Abyssinia (Al Habasha) , they carry large axes and rely on speed for protection. Organised and Disciplined.

Note: units that are not specific are for all factions, these are common soldiers (ie vanilla) their names are based off of arabic names so Ghazi (Raider) or Jund (Militia).

Armchair thanks again for letting me borrow your style, your unit lists are awesome, keep up the good work.

Next on my list will be cavalry for the 4 factions.

EDIT:argh my post hurt my eyes, need to seperate the units so i bolded the categories for an easier time to read.

[Armchair Athlete]

nice list, I'm hoping to do the Georgians next them the Volga Bulgarians. The Volga Bulgarians were a muslim faction too, a couple of those units I could use for them, mind if I do? specifically Jund, Archers.

[Armchair Athlete]

OK here are the Georgians. They were initially pushed back by the Seljuks, until their greatest King came to power right at the start of this campaign (David the Builder) and Georgia became a great power, defeating the Seljuks in numerous battles and extending their empire into Armenia and beyond Trebizond, before the Mongols came and destroyed them. Under the rule of David the Builder, and alliance was formed with the Cumans, and 40,000 Cuman Families were resettled in Gerogia. Each family had to provide one fully equipped warrior, and so an army of 40,000 men was created. This was done to offset the powers of the fickle Georgian nobles, who often tried to usurp the authority of the King and controlled the bulk of the Georgian army. The Georgian army would also consist of Armenian units, who found refuge in Georgia after fleeing the Seljuks. The Kings royal gaurd were elite and very effective, but few in number. I have tried to reflect this 'noble versus King' in the army list, where the noble's uits would make up the bulk of the army, with a few kings royal gaurd, plus Cuman and Armenian units. This link shows georgian architect
http://www.umt.edu/fll/persian/georgia.htm
Also the DBAOL website has stuff too.

Eastern Urban Militia - done this unit before

Eastern Archers - done this unit before

Eastern Spearmen - done this unit before

Eastern Skirmishers - done this unit before

Horse Archers - done this unit before

Cuman Warriors - done this unit before

Cuman Cavalry - done this unit before

Caucasian Mountaineers - done this unit before

Armenian Borderers - done this unit before - NOTE I said earlier that these guys would be limited to the Armenian home provinces of Cilicia, and the original Armenian homeland, occupied by the Seljuks. This has not changed, so to gain access to this unit the Georgians will need to reconquer Armenia from the Seljuks. This would make it a bit more interesting, and be historically accurate.

Georgian Light Cavalry - attack 8 defense 10 (armour 2, shield 4, skill 4) weapon Lance men 54 cost 450 upkeep 190 Tier 3
Georgian Light cavalry was Lance armed cavalry, equipped and hired by the various Georgian nobles to fight for them. They have a devestating charge, but should not be lft in Melee for too long, as their low armour will mean they will be defeated. They also are primarily loyal to their nobles, and that means they may lack moral fibre in a crisis and flee. One thing about RTW that bugged me a bit was the amount of units that became redundant after a short period of time. So what I thought would be good here was to have Georgian Light cavalry as excellent chargers, but vulnerable in prolonged melee, and have Georgian Heavy Cavalry as very good in prolonged melee, but a poor charge. This would mean that both are useful in the game.

Georgian Heavy Cavalry - attack 14 defense 20 (armour 9, shield 6, skill 5) weapon mace (reduces armour) men 54 cost 850 upkeep 320 Tier 4
The Georgian army consisted of mainly cavalry, and Georgian Heavy cavalry add their potent force to this mix. Although having a poor initialy charge value, their strength isthe ensuring melee, where their armour protects from attacks and their maces can destroy enemy formations. Once again, this unit is equipped by the Georgian nobles, and while being better equipped than Georgian Light cavalry and thus willing to stay in a fight more, still do not have the iron discipline that the Kings royal gaurds have. To represent the fact that these guys are equipped by nobles, I made their upkeep costs fairly low (for cavalry), while the upkeep costs for the Kings Royal Infantry are much higher, as it is paid straight out of the Kings treasury.

Georgian Royal Infantry - attack 16 defense 21 (shield 6, armour 8, skill 7) weapon long pike men 80 cost 1200 upkeep 475 Tier 5
Georgian Royal Infantry are the most elite soldiers available to a Georgian king - excellent morale and able to defeat most enemies in a head on confrontation. They are totally loyal to the King, as they are equipped and paid by only the King. This however is a significant drain on the treasury, and so no more than a few regiments can be operating at one time. They should only be hireable in the Georgian starting provinces. These would be like the Spartan hoplites of RTW, and maybe should be able to form a phalanx due to their excellent discipline and training. They are very expensive though, and take a long time to get.

Georgian Royal Cavalry - attack 13 defense 15 (shield 4, skill 6, armour 5, hitpoints - 2), weapon Lance men varies cost none (generals bodygaurd) upkeep varies Tier none
Georgian Royal cavalry are the Kings personal gaurd, and excellent fighters. They have a lance for a devestating charge, and can swing the tide of the battle. They are few in number though, and it may not be wise to risk the generals life all the time!

Eastern Crossbows - already done this unit before

Well thats the Georgians. Good cavalry, with Cuman auxiliaries and possible Armenian units. They have a mix of other faction units, so there are only 4 new units in this list.

[Leet Eriksson]

nice list, I'm hoping to do the Georgians next them the Volga Bulgarians. The Volga Bulgarians were a muslim faction too, a couple of those units I could use for them, mind if I do? specifically Jund, Archers.

Sure go ahead ~:) keep the unit lists coming, they are awesome.

i'll edit this post to put up the cavalry.

[Armchair Athlete]

OK here are the Volga Bulgarians. They were a Muslim power situated on the Volga river, cousins to the danube Bulgarians (modern day Bulgaria). They would be one of the factions that could build the steppe warriors, available from various provinces around Modern day Russia (I'll post these guys next). When it comes to modelling the Volga Bulgarians, there are unfortunately no resources (even DBA doesn't have a Volga Bulgarian army list!) however I have found information on them which was quite good, and so every unit would be 100% historically accurate, even with names (no Volga Bulgarian infantry/cavalry etc). The Volga Bulgarians made heavy use of various degrees of chainmails, and very little plate armour. They initially defeated a Mongol army in 1223, but they were wiped out by the invading Mongols at 1237. They never became independant again, and their culture was largely extinguished. They were significant in that they made use of large amounts of infantry rather than large amounts of cavalry.

Jund - faisals already done

Archers - faisals already done

Guzar - attack 6 defense 10 (shield 6, armour 1, skill 3), weapon spear men 120 cost 200 upkeep 140 Tier 2
The Guzars were the lightly armed levies of the 'third line' of the Volga Bulgarian army. The lines corresponded as to how desperate the situation was. If they were just fighting raiders, usually only the elite first line was deployed, if a large scale war the all three lines were used. They are slightly better than most other spearmen of the same Tier, but will be made redundant quickly.

Kursybays - attack 7 defense 15 (shield 6, armour 4, skill 5), weapon spear men 80 cost 400 upkeep 170 Tier 3
Kursybays were the medium spearmen of the 'second line' of the Volga Bulgarian army. They were better equipped than the Guzars, but not as well as the elite Kazanchies. Note this use of 'line' was merely meant to say how important the unit was, ot their actual battlefield roles. In battle, the Kursybays usually fought holding actions, allowing the Kazanchies to manouver to deliver decisive strikes. The Kursybays were a bit different to most other levies of the time in that they were actualy paid and did not serve out of Feudal obligations. There are several references to them almost betraying the King unless their pay was increased. These are like in VH's XL mod.

Kazanchies - attack 14 defense 14 (armour 8, skill 6) weapon double handed axe men 80 cost 650 upkeep 240 Tier 4
Kazanchies were the armoured and elite warriors of the 'first line'. They were well paid, and were usually committed in the decisive stages of the battle. Armed with a double handed axe that reduces armour, they can cause terrible damage to the enemy, however they are not as good at holding the line as the Kursybays were, and became fatigued fairly quickly. They seemed to be more loyal and the Kursybays, and did not threaten to mutiny for pay. They are in VH's XL mod.

Angly - melee attack 2 missile attack 9 defense 9 (armour 6, skill 3) weapon compound bow men 80 cost 575 upkeep 240 Tier 4
Angly's were the armoured elite archers of the Volga Bulgarians, and were often used to gaurd bridges and choke points on the Volga river, the source of Volga Bulgarian wealth, regulating trade and soliciting money from traders. They were used in battle too, and were effective, without suffering many casualties. To represent their status as gaurds of the Volga river, they should only be able to be built in provinces that has the Volga river running through them.

Kaves - melee attack 3 missile attack 12 defense 3 (skill 3) weapon crossbow men 80 cost 600 upkeep 240 Tier 5
Kaves were the crossbowmen of the Volga Bulgarians. No armour, they were used more as 'militia men' rather than elite troops, their amroured archers were considered more valuable. Kaves would still be very handy in holding off horse archers and other mounted foes.

Ulan - attack 9 defense 22 (shield 4, skill 5, armour 13) weapon spear men 54 cost 890 upkeep 350 Tier 5
Ulans were heavily armoured knights, not the most nimble of opponents but very deadly! They were equipped by various Feudal lords, and so were fairly few in number, and often were part of uprisings against the monarch. They should only be buildable in the Volga Bulgarian home provinces, and take two turns to build.

Cossack - attack 13 defense 10 (skill 6, shield 4) weapon sword men 54 cost 500 upkeep 250 Tier 3
Cossacks (the original Volga Bulgarian name is so long and confusing I'm not even going to attempt to write it) were originally Knights who swore to fight without armour in defiance of death and to show their bravery, or Knights who swore not to marry until Military service has been done. They are very good fighters, and although brave, terribly vulnerable to missiles. Cossacks became famous several hundred years later as eastern cavalry nomads, one of the few remaining.

Djura - melee attack 4 missile attack 9 defense 13 (skill 3, shield 4, armour 6) men 54 cost 850 upkeep 300 Tier 4
Djura were armoured horse archers, mercenaries initially hired by the Volga Bulgarians from the various steppe nomad tribes nearby then outfitted with Volgan chainmail. Poor in Hand to hand combat, but strong archers, with the eatsern compound bow.

EDIT - woops! forgot the
Bahadirs - were the bodygaurds of the nobles, and thus would be the generals bodygaurd units.

Thats the Volga Bulgarians, their list may seem a bit short but that is so they have some incentive to conquer nearby provinces and be able to build additional troops to augment their forces. Sorry if it seems I'm going quite quick with the lists, but in a couple of weeks time I will be going away until some time in February (its harvest season down here) and will be unable to post anything like these lists in that time. By that time the mod will probably be well on the way, and so these will not be needed. So I'm trying to get down what I know now. Next I intend to do the Steppe units buildable by the Kievan Rus, Volga Bulgarians and Novgorods, then I will write something on Novgorod and the Kieva Rus. Then I am hoping to get the Sicilians and the Christian Iberian factions done, and thats really all I know, dont know too much about Scandanavian, French, English, Irish, Scottish, German or Italian units, only a little bit, but I will post what I do know.

[Leet Eriksson]

Apparently i won't edit the last post, but this one, incase Armchair misses it (i stole a unit of yours if you don't mind).

I also have to mention some things, i did not put up unit costs or number of men, the numbers will be based off of rtw so Spearmen on huge are 240, swords/oddballs 160, cavalry 108....etc and i'll think of the costs, but its best to do that after the unit list is finalized so i can balance it.

Took me some time to finish the abassid and egyptian cavalry, i didn't do the Almohads and Almoravids sadly, will finish them up soon though.

Now onto Islamic cavalry, like the footsoldier their emphasis is on attack rather than defence and use alot of horse archer cavalry. This time around though i'm putting a faction name first then put the units they belong to below them.

Abassids:

Archer Cavalry:

Turcoman Cavalry - Missile Attack 11 Melee Attack 7 Defence 10

The Turks were integrated in the Abassid army after Al Mu'tasim Billah (bieng half turk himself) became caliph, he was impressed by their ways of warfare and integrated a large number of them in the Caliphates army. Armed with bows, and chainmail armour (turkish armour was of better quality than arab armour) and swords. They are good for harrassing and skirmishing.

Arab Cavalry (Fast) - Missile Attack 14 (Javelins) Melee Attack 8 Defence 7

Recruited primarily from Hedjaz, the Coastal Arabs (Hadhar/Hadr) armies were primarily made up of cavalry, they are disciplened and organised but unarmoured and carry a light lance, several javelins and a sword.

Cavalry:

Bedioun Camel Warriors - Stole it from Armchair (i hope you don't mind ~;p)

Faris - Attack 14 Defence 10

Primarily recruited from Jordan, they have an excellent charge, can melee to some extent too. They carry lances, and swords. Not much protection besides leather armour enforced with a mail of rings for protection against arrows.

Ghulam Cavalry - Attack 9 Defence 18

The Ghulam are slaves trained primarily for war, mostly used as cavalry, they are very good at what they do and that is to support the Caliphates army forming wings around the left and right flank of the army and an advance unit in front of the army by a few miles. Since they are derived from the Ghaznavid system they come armed in heavy lances, lamellar armour, round shields made of metal, and conical helmets for protection. Their horses come armoured too.

Ghazi Cavalry (Fast) - Attack 13 Defence 7

The mounted form of the ghazi infantry, there only motivation is either death... or the loot they lay their hands on after the battle. They carry light lances and axes, they only carry wooden shields for protection.

Abbasid Royal Ghulam Cavalry - Attack 16 Defence 22

These are Ghulams assigned especially to guard royality or royal family members, they are armed with the best equipment possible(heavy lances and maces) and the best armour (heavy chainmail). Their horses come armoured.

Egyptians:

Horse Archers:

Mamelukes - Missile Attack 10 Melee Attack 13 Defence 18

The Elite of the Egyptian army, they are white slaves from all over europe. Disciplined and Organised, they are armed with recurve bows, swords, lances and heavy chainmail armour, they also have an excellent charge.

Nubian Light Cavalry (fast) - Missile Attack 16 (javelins) Melee attack 5 Defence 7

Cavalry recruited from Sudan, they are good shots with javelins while mounted and excellent at harassing and skirmishing.

Cavalry:

Abyssinian Heavy Cavalry - Attack 11 Defence 16

Heavy Cavalry Recruited from Abyssinia, they are Disciplined and Organised, armed with lances and longswords and also armoured in heavy robes and chainmail.

Bedioun Camel Warriors - Stole it from Armchair

Bedioun Cavalry (fast) - Attack 9 Defence 7

Egyptians relied from several bedioun tribes in jordan and sinai to compliment their armies, bedioun families usually gather them and then form cavalry regiments that join the egyptian army, they have high morale but carry little else in terms of equipment, primarily light lances and swords or other close combat weapons. their only protection are their turbans and robes, wich do a good job at protecting them from the sun, but nothing else.

Ghazi Cavalry - Already done

Mamelukes (Bodyguard) - Missile Attack 9 Attack 16 Defence 19

The Egyptian royality handpick the best of the mameluke warriors and made them their bodyguards, armed with the best arms and armour.

[VikingHorde]

Good work guys, very usefull info. The mod is making good progress right now with a lot of new unit models and mapmaking being done. Im starting work om faction banners, both ingame and in the menu. We have desided that the mod will have all 3 eras that MTW had. The "game timer" will thereby not be a 100 % correct, because high and late era units will arive early'er. This is because of the 2 turn/a year timer there is hardcoded sadly. We can only hope a game patch will correct this.

~:cheers:

[Armchair Athlete]

faisal - use all the units you want, you've done a good job! I don't really know much about the Muslim powers (other than the Volga Bulgarians) so its been very interesting reading your posts

vikinghorde - Thats OK, for most of the factions I have done so far they did not make it to the late period, being wiped out by the Mongols (Georgians, Cumans, Volga Bulgarians) only the Armenians didn't and they were conquered in 1375 by the Mamlukes, so the lists don't change at all there. So that means units like gothic knights and stuff would be in? For those super advanced units, what could be done to make them much later is have a single building that takes many turns to build, which then allows construction of late period units, for example for Gothic Knights you would need the highest level cavalry barracks and say you could have a Baronial estate (like in MTW) that takes extra turns to build but provides no benefit other than construction of Late units.

[King Yngvar]

What about a Viking Age mod for RTW? From 793 to 1066, with all of Europe of course...

[VikingHorde]

faisal - use all the units you want, you've done a good job! I don't really know much about the Muslim powers (other than the Volga Bulgarians) so its been very interesting reading your posts

vikinghorde - Thats OK, for most of the factions I have done so far they did not make it to the late period, being wiped out by the Mongols (Georgians, Cumans, Volga Bulgarians) only the Armenians didn't and they were conquered in 1375 by the Mamlukes, so the lists don't change at all there. So that means units like gothic knights and stuff would be in? For those super advanced units, what could be done to make them much later is have a single building that takes many turns to build, which then allows construction of late period units, for example for Gothic Knights you would need the highest level cavalry barracks and say you could have a Baronial estate (like in MTW) that takes extra turns to build but provides no benefit other than construction of Late units.

The late units should have a high needs so that they don't get build too early.

@King Yngvar
The viking era will not be included in this mod.

[Armchair Athlete]

OK now for the Kievan Rus and Novgorod. When there is no listing after th eunit, it means they are common for both facions. When there is a name after it, it is only for that named faction. The Rus had two distinct styles of troops, before the Mongol Invasion and afterwards. before they were much like other troops of that time, with mounted nobles and foot levies, but after the Mongol invasions there was more emphasis on Foot Troops (especially in Novgorod). Most of the info i have here is from either MTW and XL mod, or the various Osprey Titles that have been published (beautiful pictures!) plus some online ones. They would both be able to build the special steppe units I will put up shortly, to make up for shortcomings in their own army. I'm too lazy to do cost and upkeep now so I'll start leaving those out.

Eastern Archers - already done

Eastern Urban Militia - already done

Eastern Skirmishers - already done

Eastern Spearmen - already done

Horse Archers - already done

Voi - attack 6 defense 13 (shield 6, armour 3, skill 4) weapon spear men 120 Tier 3
Voi were the lightly armed tribal levies of the armies of the Rus. They operated in a variety of ways, from spearmen to Skirmishers, but were only used in desperate circumstances, due to their general unreliability and the fact they could only be used for part of the year. However, they are better than vanilla spearmen.

Varangians - attack 10 defense 14 (armour 5, shield 4, skill 5) weapon axe men 80 Tier 3
Varangians were scandanavian (primarily Sweedish) mercenaries that were hired by the various Rus principalities. They were equipped like other viking warriors, with decent armour and a variety of large hand weapons. They should only buildable in the Rus (Kievan and Novgorod) home provinces.

Druzhina Warriors - attack 12 defense 15 (armour 5, shield 4, skill 6, hitpoints 2) weapon sword men 40 Tier 4
The Druzhina were a princes personal retinue. They were full time warriors, and thus were the cream of Russia armies. They were expensive to raise and upkeep, but large numbers of them were very effective.

Boyars - missile attack 9 melee attack 7 defense 15 (shield 4, skill 5, armour 6) weapon bow men 54 Tier 5
Boyars were the later nobles or aristocracy of Rus society (when I say Russian I mean Kievan and Novgorod, its just too long to type that out every time) and were armed with some of the best equipment available to them, including strong armour and good bows.

Druzhina Bodygaurd - attack 13 defense 14 (shield 4, skill 5, armour 5, hitpoints 2) weapon Lance men varies (generals bodygaurd unit) Tier none
Mounted Druzhina warriors who are the bodygaurd of Rus generals, lances for a devestating charge and good fighters. They are small in number however, and should not be thrown into the thick of the fray, to preserve the general.

Streltsi (KIEVAN RUS) - attack 9 defense 10 (shield 4, skill 5, armour 1) weapon Lance men 54 Tier 3
Streltsi were the light supporting cavalry used by the Kievan Rus in their struggles against the various Steppe peoples. They are fast and with good stamina, well suited to running down nimble horse archers, and have a lance for a devestating charge. They can also act as anti infantry units, but will be defeated in a pitched battle. They must rely upon precision strikes and rear charges.

Eastern Crossbows - already done this unit

Peshtsi (NOVGOROD) - attack 13 defense 18 (shield 4, armour 8, skill 6) weapon long spear men 120 Tier 5
Peshtsi (or foot soldiers) were skilled footmen that appeared in the armies of the rus after the Mongol invasion. Their use by Novgorod brought them many victories, defeating the Teutons numerous times and ensuring Novgorod Freedom by defeating a Mongol army in 1285.

Novgorod Urban Levy (NOVGOROD) - attack 12 defense 13 (skill 5, armour 8) weapon halberd men 80 Tier 5
After the defeat of the Kievan Rus by the Mongols and their subsequent annihilation, the remaining rus prinipalities realised that a different approach to warfare was needed. This resulted in the armoured infantry being much more important, and well equipped urban levies began to replace nobles and cavalry. These Levies are armed with halberds, fearsome weapons that can cut through armour and provide a good bonus versus cavalry.

Well thats it, I think maybe the Kievan Rus need one more unique unit but I couldn't find any, if anyone has some suggestions then feel free to say so. One name I have come across is the Otroki, who were squires, but I dont know how they were equipped, so you can do what you like with them. They should be early tier however. as the Kievan Rus were wiped out by the Mongols while Novgorod survived, so Novgorod has better later units. I will put up the list of units that can be built by Steppe factions in various provinces tomorrow, but their basic names here are
Bashkorts
Chernye Klobuki
Severian Tribesmen
Oghuz
Moksha Mordvin
Erzya Mordvin

[Armchair Athlete]

OK here are the Russian Steppe units. These guys would be buildable by the two Rus powers, Volga Bulgarians and Cumans with a special building that can be constructed in Tier 3. This would accurately represent the wars which were primarily fought over influence of the tribes rather than territorial expansion. Territories for all three factions remained somewhat static. The only exception to the Tier 3 rule is with the Oghuz who would be built in Tier 5 as an upgrade to the Tier 3 building. Maybe that building could provide another bonus, such as slightly increased trade, so it wont be totally useless when built outside the Steppes.

Bashkorts - missile attack 9 attack 9 defense 9 (armour 1, skill 4, shield 4) weapon Javelin and Spear Men 80
Bashkorts were a traibe that was originally established to the east of the Volga Bulgarian Home provinces and were a livestock owning, semi nomadic tribe. They mostly used footmen rather than cavalry. After repeated incursions by Turkic raiders they left and journed West, forming an alliance with the Volga Bulgarians for greater protection. They would be buildable in the Volga Bulgarian Home provinces.

Chernye Klobuki - same stats as Cuman Cavalry
The Chernye Klobuki (or Black Hoods) were a group of settlers from mixed tribal origin, primarily the Berendi but also remnants of other defeated Turkic tribes, such as the Pecheneg and Alans. The Berendi tribesmen initially fought for many powers, including the Volga Bulgarians. They formed an alliance with the Kievan Rus and settled in their southern frontier, providing some degree of protection against the raiding Cumans. They operated in a veriety of ways, as cavalry lancers and archers. Here they are used as Archers. These guys would be buildable in the Kievan Rus home provinces. I made them the same stats as the Cuman cavalry so the Cumans would not need to use them, because historically they hated the Cumans ad always fought them.

Severian Tribesmen - attack 15 defense 5 (skill 5, hitpoints 2) weapon large axe Men 80
Severian Tribesmen were ferocious, if lightly armoured fighters who often hired themselves out as mercenaries to the warring Rus principalities. They were armed with a large double handed axe which they were quite skillful in using, however they will be destroyed by any kind of missile fire. These guys would look similar to the woodsmen of MTW (but would be a bit better) and would be buildable in the provices just to the North of the Kievan Rus and South of Novgorod (say around the cities of Smolensk and Polotski)

Moksha Mordvin - missile attack 9 melee attack 10 defense 5 (skill 4, armour 1) weapon flat bow men 80
The Mordvins were fierce tribal people who inhabited the lands between the Volga Bulgarians and the Rus principalities. They made excellet troops, and many wars were fought for influence over these tribes. There were two main divisions, the Moksha Mordvi being the more westerly and the Erzya Mordvin being the more easterly. The Moksha Mordvin were famous for their use of the 'flat bow' and were strong in hand to hand combat. The Mordvins were never territorially expanionist, but were ferocious fighters, and took human heads as trophies. These guys would be buildable around the cities of Moscow and Rostov

Erzya Mordvin - missile attack 12 melee attack 11 defense 14 (shield 6, skill 5, armour 3) weapon hand weapon and throwing axe men 80
The Erzya Mordvin were the more easterly of the Mordvin, and for equipment used throwing axes, which would be thrown just before a charge in the same way as the Roman Pila (they would only have about 2 throwing axes). They make a capable medium infantry and would be buildable in the rebel territories right to the west of the Volga Bulgarian homelands.

Oghuz - attack 8 defense 19 (skill 6, shield 6, armour 7) weapon Lance men 54
The Oguz were one of the Turkic tribes originally inhabiting the lands to the North of the Pechenegs around the Don River. They suffered greatly by the raiding Cumans and were never a major power again. These Oghuz are equipped as heavy cavalry lancers with an excellent charge, although once they have charged their hand to hand weapons are not as good as Arabic and Western ones.

[Leet Eriksson]

This list adresses the Cavalry for The Almohads/Almoravids:

Took me sometime to write it down, since most arabic history is oral and never adresses "units" in names and such, i had to name some cavalry and others were slapped with generic names like Berber Camel Archers and such. The Equipment is hisotrically correct though, but i had problems with armour, they aren't adressed clearly, so i had to ask around and i happened to find out that 1 type of armour could have several names and so on.


Horse Archers:

Berber Camel Archers - Missile Attack 10 Melee Attack 8 Defence 7

Hardy desert folk from the sahara, relying on their camels for several purposes to endure the harsh heat of the desert. They are armed with bows and swords, not much in terms of armour, besides the cloth that protects them from the sun.

Berber Cavalry - Missile Attack 15 (javelins) Melee Attack 9 Defence 8

These are recruited primarily from southern Algeria, very good with javelins and very good at harassing and skirmishing, armed with javelins, swords and armoured with heavy cloth.

Cavalry:

Andalucian Knights - Attack 9 Defence 25

A mixture of Muslim and Christian cavalry in southern Spain, copying the feudal Spanish knights in arms and armour, but are also disciplined and organised, unlike their impetuos Spanish counterparts.

Muwahid(Almohad)/Murabitin(Almoravid) Cavalry - Attack 16 Defence 14

Medium Cavalry with a good charge, armed with lances and shields, armoured with chainmail.

Granadine Lancers - Attack 13 Defence 22

Heavy Cavalry from Granada, armed with very long lances and sabres and armoured in 2 layers of chainmail, they carry small wooden shields meant for close combat and not protection against arrows.

Muwahid/Murabitin Companions - Attack 19 Defence 18

Cavalry accompanying Royality, personal friends of the Khalifah, under his order they could also accompany other royality. Each one is armed with a unique sword and shield.

Note: Historically, before the Almoravids or Almohads came to power, they worked in convincing people in their ideology, these people then became "companions" of sorts wich accompanied the figurehead of the faction. In time, their numbers waned and their ability became sub-par due to the laxity they become exposed to after conquering southern spain.

EDIT:I forgot to add commonly used cavalry(i wrote the almohad cavalry in a different text file):

Bedioun Camels and Ghazi Cavalry.

Thats it for the Cavalry i hope.

EDIT: i'll address the artillery in my next post.

[DemonArchangel]

For the late byzantines look at

http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/dba153/ByzantineVariant.html

Vlach Javenlineers would be a good idea.
As would Veristitatae (Byzantine sword infantry)
Try equpping skutatoi with the bow as an alternate weapon then.

[Armchair Athlete]

Time for the crusaders now, then I will do the Sicilians, Iberian Christians and a bit on the Italian City states then that will be all from me apart from some general ideas.

Spearmen - attack 5 defense 8 (shield 4, skill 4) weapon spear men 120 Tier 2
Generic Spear Unit for the Western Factions.

Archer - missile attack 7 melee attack 2 defense 3 (skill 3) men 80 Tier 2
Generic Archer unit for Western Factions.

Urban Militia - same stats as eastern urban militia
Generic Urban Militia Uit for Western Factions

Crossbowmen - missile attack 12 melee attack 3 defense 7 (armour 4, skill 3) men 80 Tier 5
Generic Crossbow unit for western factions.

Frankish Crusaders - attack 9 defense 14 (skill 5, shield 6, armour 3) weapon spear men 120 Tier 3
Regardless of their origins, all western crusaders were generally called 'Franks' by the Muslims of the East. Having been hardened by many battles agaist Turks and the Abbassid and Fatamid caliphates they are capable warriors, however in the long overland treks armour and weapons tend to degenerate in quality. They were usually available in large numbers however and often outnumbered the Islamic armies opposing them. With more religious fevour than standard western units, they have a higher morale. These guys should be fairly cheap to represent their largish numbers.

Turcopoles - same stats as Turkoman cavalry (by Faisal) but a bit more expensive
After initially being suprised by the rapid harassing tactics of the Turks, the crusaders realised the value of fast horse armies and employed converted Turks (who were usually those captured in battle) as their own form of light cavalry known as Turcopoles. Like in MTW perhaps these guys should only be buildable in Antioch, Tripoli and Edessa to represent their limited numbers.

Order Foot Soldiers - attack 10 defense 17 (skill 6, shield 6, armour 5) weapon spear men 80 Tier 4
Same as Order Foot Soldiers from MTW. As these guys were ones that fought for the military orders, rather than the rulers of the various states like the Frankish Crusaders, they have a bit better weapons and armour, but there is less of them.

Hospitaller Foot Knights - already done this unit

Knights Templar - attack 11 defense 24 (skill 6, shield 6, armour 12) weapon lance men 54 Tier 5
One of the two principal Knightly orders in the east, the Knights Templar were renowned for their determination, skill at arms but unsubtle tactics usually consisting of a head on charge. Only wealthy nobles could be admitted into the Knights Templar, and therefore could afford the best quality arms and armour. They were very impetuous and often charged at first sight of the enemy, and this has been blamed in some sources for defeats of crusader armies. Notw I thought it would be pointless to have the Knights Hospitaller and the Knights Templar as foot and mounted units, as they would have exactly the same arms and armour and so would be the same, just look different. So perhaps one should be mounted and one should be on foot.

Norman Knights - attack 11 defense 17 (shield 6, skill 6, armour 5) weapon spear men 54 Tier 3
When the crusaders marched, one of the leaders was Bohemund of Taranto, son of the Hauteville Normans in Sicily. His troops were predominately Norman, already skilled in warfare. Norman Knights were some of the most effective knights of their period, and Norman Lords used them with success in Sicily, Southern Italy and Britain as well as in their homeland of Normandy. These are pretty good for Tier 3 units, so they need to me limited in number somehow. Say take two turns to build, be expensive and can only be built in Antioch (as Bohemund was the ruler of Antioch) Sicily, Southern Italy, England (not Scotland or Wales) and Normandy. These would be buildable by the French, English, Sicilians and Crusaders.

Norman Foot Knights - attack 11 defense 16 (shield 6, armour 4, skill 6) weapon large sword men 54 Tier 3
Norman Knights were considered the first to make regular dismounting a common tactic when cavalry fighting was inappropriate. Just as skilled on Foot as on Horse, they made strong infantry, although with a bit less protection and mobility due to the lack of a mount. Same build restrictions as Norman Knights.

Templar Sergeants - attack 10 defense 16 (skill 6, shield 4, armour 6) weapon sword men 54 Tier 4
Those without the rank to join the crusading orders as fully fledged knights instead joined as Sergeants. They were generally just as skillful, although thier arms and armour were not up to the same quality. They were also not as impetuous as the knights of the order.

Feudal Men at Arms - attack 9 defense 12 (shield 4, skill 5, armour 3) weapon sword or other generic hand weapon men 80 Tier 3
Same as Feudal Men at Arms from MTW. Reasonable infantry for their Tier, they could defeat most similar spear units but will need to be replaced with more advanced units as time progresses.

Chivalric Men at Arms - attack 12 defense 16 (shield 4, skill 5, armour 7) weapon sword men 80 Tier 5
Same as Chivalric Men at Arms from MTW.

Well thats it for the crusaders, if anyone has any more ideas feel free to add them. One question for you though VH, will the campaign have three different starting dates like in MTW or will it just start in 1100?

[Armchair Athlete]

I will start with the Portugese out of the three Iberian Christian factions. The last list was a bit boring I think, you included nearly all the units that could be done in your XL mod. The Iberians will be more interesting than my crusaders list, I promise ~:) The Portugese were more defensive with their large scale battles, with the use of swift raiders to raid he southern muslim provinces. They were also very defensive in their wars with Castile, and in later periods nearly all of their knights fought dismounted. The crossbow was very popular in Portugal and use of it took off rapidly. This website http://libro.uca.edu/ has a wealth of information on all three Iberian powers including pictures of equipment and buildings.

Urban Militia - done this unit before

Archer - done this unit before

Spearmen - done this unit before

Feudal Men at Arms - done this unit before

Chivalric Men at Arms - done this unit before

Algarave - attack 14 defense 11 (shield 4, skill 6, armour 1) weapon spear men 54 Tier 4
The Algaraves were the men who took part in an Algara (mounted raid). They usually operated as detachments of the main army, either overwhelming small groups of enemy as encountered or fleeing and joining with the main army when threatened. Algaraves from Lisbon were particularly renowned for their effectiveness, and one popular tactic was to raid an area, drawing out the enemy army and then leading them back to the bulk of friendly forces, destroying them. They would have very good stamina and a good charge, buildable only in the portugese home provinces but they would not do well in a protracted melee. Many Algaraves were actually knights who just wore less armour for speed, and so were quite skillful.

Jinetes - missile attack 9 melee attack 7 defense 8 (shield 4, skill 4) weapon Javelin men 54 Tier 3
Jinetes here are the same as in MTW. They were fast cavalry armed with Javelins, this idea being copied after encounteres with rapid berber cavalry.

Knights of Aviz - same stats as Templar Knights
The Knights of Aviz were an Iberian Crusading order set up about 1145 in Portugal to extend the Kings domains into Southern Iberia. They were initially known as the Brethren of Santa Maria until they received Aviz in 1211. Then they became known as the Knights of Aviz. Their equipment was mostly black, and in the early 14th century they recieved permission to wear a green cross. They were similar to the other crusading orders in class requirements and equipment.

Portugese Crossbows - melee attack 3 missile attack 12 defense 6 (armour 3, skill 3) weapon crossbow men 80 Tier 4
The crossbow was a very popular weapon in Portugal, and soon replaced bows almost entirely. To represent this, I think the Portugese should get crossbows one tier earlier than everyone else (apart from Italians), in Tier 4. They would still take some time to get, but it would be more historically accurate. As they are also a small faction, it would not be too imbalancing. Their crossbows could be cheaper than normal crossbows, but they have less armour, to represent the fact that many militia used them.

Apellidos - attack 7 defense 14 (skill 4, shield 6, armour 4) weapon spear men 120 Tier 3
An Apellido was a form of military service called up for in defensive emergencies. Most of the troops first called would be those that have had battle experience before, so they would be a step above the usual militia levies. Warfare and raiding was often intense in the battles against the Moors, so the peasant levies of Iberia were usually of a superior quality to most other places in Europe. These would be sort of the same as Feudal Sergeants, but I thought it would add a bit more colour to use the historically correct terms when possible.

Besteiros - attack 9 defense 19 (skill 5, shield 6, armour 8) weapon spear men 120 Tier 5
Besteiros were the portugese term for foot soldiers, and although armed in a variety of ways, spears were commonly used. The portugese army was very defensive in nature after the main threat from the Moors ended, and so that is why I think they should be spearmen.

Portugese Foot Knights - attack 11 defense 16 (armour 10, skill 6, hitpoints 2) weapon polearm or halberd men 40 Tier 6
Portugese Knights often fought dismounted, and when battling the Castilians often not a single knight in the main battle line was on horse. Armed with a polearm providing a significant boost to attack against cavalry, they are skillful opponents, although small in number, and not very mobile. Note with the Tiers I know that according to population levels there is no Tier 6, but you could add in buildings like a baronial estate or something which would take a long time to build, to act as a sort of Tier 6. This would represent the historical reality of the situation, as it would be quite bad to have units like Gothic Knights and Jannisaries being able to be built at the same time as Chivalric Men at Arms. For Custom battles and the like, I guess cost is the only real way you can balance them, as historically a 15th century foot knight would always beat a 12th century foot knight, due to the different quality weapons and armour, just like a 21st centry army would always beat a 18th century army.


OK I dont think I have left anything out, next I will do the Castilians. They were much more cavalry and offense oriented.

[Leet Eriksson]

I think i completed the artillery list, i will adress artillery and oddball units in this post for all the muslim factions i have listed.

Naffatun - same as thunder bombers in STW or Naptha Throwers in MTW, these guys carry small pots that pack explosives, very identical to greek fire but not of the same quality. they have a very small range and are only tasked to lob them and retreat.

Burning Cloaks - Muslim scientists developed a cloak that can be burnt while keeping its wearer unharmed, these were used particularily for psychological warfare and to direct enemy cavalry.

Catapult - assembled on the battlefield by skilled engineers, these used steel bows and cords to hurl large stones to destroy castle walls. used to hurl camels/cows or other carcasses for spreading disease and psychological warfare.

Mangonel -termed by arabs the manganeeq and later used by the europeans and called the Trebuchet, a very powerful seige engine that not only introduced the concept of long range artillery, but almost completly revolutionised seige warfare at that time. unlike catapults wich used cords to hurl projectiles, the mangonel used the gravitation of a heavy counterweight to hurl large 300 lb. stones that could easily destroy castle walls and allow the troops to storm in.

Note:i'm unsure of the origins of the mangonel, some say it was invented by the romans, based on the onager design and some say it was made in the middle east. others claim it was based of a seige weapon in china regardless of that, it seemed to be a very popular weapon.

Ballista - a seige engine taken from the byzantines, and improved upon, used to shoot large concetrations of troops, the size of the bolt/arrow depended on the size of the ballista and sometimes peirced through formations. Very slow and innaccurate, but could cause psychological problems to enemy troops when directly hit.

Mortar - a small cannon, lobbed stones or iron balls or sometimes explosive projectiles, this is the gunpoweder equivelant of the ballista, and used almost exclusively against troops, be it fortified behind castle walls or marching on fields.

Cannon - a cannon, imported from china and improved upon, these seige engines render castles obsolete as they have a very long range, and can pound a castle in relative safety without bieng exposed to its defences.

Seige Cannon - a very large, very heavy cannon, stationary and cannot be rotated, but is very powerful and can destroy walls or entire formations of troops in a matter of seconds.

next post will be about ships for the muslim factions.

[Armchair Athlete]

Burning Cloaks - Muslim scientists developed a cloak that can be burnt while keeping its wearer unharmed, these were used particularily for psychological warfare and to direct enemy cavalry.

Whoa....cool!

[AFM984]

I really enjoyed reading the lists, great work guys, but I guess you read what Duke John posted, he says that there is a problem with the files and a complete transformation might not be possible, I'm really looking forward to your mod but this got me worried. ~:confused:

Faisal do you have any history book that talks about islamic battles and the units in the armies :book: ? if you do please send me the name if it is not much to ask ~:)

[VikingHorde]

Good work guys on those unit lists, it's good reading :bow:

@AFM984
I belive that most problems can be solved in time, so we are doing the work we can untill then. If the problems dosn't get solved, then we might use the units for historycal battles or something, but we will not give up just yet ~;)

~:cheers:

[Leet Eriksson]

Faisal do you have any history book that talks about islamic battles and the units in the armies :book: ? if you do please send me the name if it is not much to ask ~:)

My sources are based of books written in arabic sadly, however, these are the names (roughly translated):

Amr bin Al A'ss art of combat and warfare (mostly on cavalry tactics)

Banu Hilal (some of the north african units for the almos)

Early/Late era Abassid history (little bit of unit tactics listed in, maps of battles and such)

Mahmoud Al Ghaznawi (founder of the ghaznavid state, vassal of the abassids, some units are based of his state for the abassids)

Khalid bin Al Waleed (greatest muslim/arab commander, field tactics, and also a bit on psychological warfare)

Islamic History (books 5-6) (seige engines, and unit equipments, also vaguely categorizes units, derived most of the units from it)

These are the most reliable sources i have. I have 1 book in english, its called the Fall of Jerusalem by Stanley L. Pool, but it talks of Saladins life mostly, but i haven't used it in my research.

I'll do my best to answer any questions by translating these books directly, if you ever have any that is ~:)

[Armchair Athlete]

I'll do the Castilians now. They were much more offense oriented, and most of their battles were fought offensively. They had quite a lot of cavalry, backed up by men at arms and numerous fairly well trained militias. They also had quite a few kngihtly crusader orders, two main ones being the Knights of Calatrava and the Knights of Santiago. The same website I gave for the portugese gives good further info on these guys and the Aragonese (to come later).

Urban Militia - done this unit before

Spearmen - done this uit before

Archers - done this unit before

Feudal men at arms - done this unit before

Chivalric men at arms - done this unit before

Crossbows - done this unit before

Jinetes - done this unit before

Apellidos - done this unit before

Caballeros Villanos - attack 8 defense 14 (skill 4, shield 6, armour 4) weapon spear men 54 Tier 3
The Caballeros Villanos were commoner cavalry. Anyone who could provide his own horse, arms and armour of a reasonable quality could become a Caballeros or commoner Knight, with a variety of laws set up by predominately castile and copied by other christian kingdoms to encourage these groups such as indemnities for loss of equipment and horses, right of plunder and protection of plunder (tax free) and granting of estates. For those not from noble families, it was a very good way to gain riches and estates, and become a noble. A member of a caballero was also respected among all classes initially, unusual for groups that have been decreed as being noble without any noble ancestors. They always fought as cavalry.

Fonsado - attack 11 defense 11 (skill 4, armour 7) weapon peasant polearm (just armour piercing, no cav attack bonus) men 120 Tier 4
A Fonsado was offensive military service for a number of days for more experienced members of city militia. They were usually armed with fairly good equipment and many were eager to go, as often if a battle was won then huge amounts of plunder could be gained from the rich Moor cities to the South of the penninsular. They were armed with a variety of weapons, the majority being axes and polearms, as a good balanced sword was fairly expensive. They often 'hired' good armour from nobles, in return for part of the plunder they earned.

Knights of Santiago - attack 11 defense 21 (shield 4, skill 6, armour 11) weapon lance men 54 Tier 5
The Knights of Santiago were originally formed to protect pilgrams travelling to and from the tomb of Saint James at Compostella, the most important pilgrammage route in Western Europe. The order was approved by the pope in 1175. They had lesser vows than the Templars and Hospitallers, taking only the vow of Chastity. They also had class requirements though, however many Caballeros who became nobles through riches and estates were admitted. They are a tough cavalry unit, able to shatter enemy units with their charge and much more restrained and disciplined than the Templar knights.

Foot Knights of Calatrava - attack 13 defense 22 (shield 6, skill 6, armour 10) weapon sword men 54 Tier 5
The Knights of Calatrava were another of the major crusading orders in Iberia, and were confirmed as a military order by the pope in 1164. They held a wide range of castles near the border with the Moors, and so often fought as foot knights. They held estates in all the major Iberian powers lands, but in the wars that often were fought between the Christian powers they nearly always aligned themselves with Castile. There was a schism within the knights over a succession crisis, and they then fought on many sides in the civil wars.

Heavy Lancers - attack 10 defense 21 (skill 6, armour 15, hitpoints 2) weapon lance men 40 Tier 6
These are the lancers that the spanish can build in MTW. They are th eultimate unit for the Aragonese and Castilians, and should have possibly the highest charge value in the game. They have good armour to protect them, but after the initial charge they are less effective. Due to the tremendous cost involved in outfitting a warrior with the large amounts of high quality armour, the unit is smaller than usual, and should be very expensive. It was kind of fun having the whole Lancer vs Gothic Knight debates in MTW, so they should both be included here as very good units too!

Thats some ideas for the Castilians, next I will do the Aragonese.

[buujin]

Athlete this is great! , keep em coming.. ~:)

Id love to the the Holy Roman Empire and English units.

[Armchair Athlete]

Buujin - thanks for the support :bow: unfortunately I dont really know much at all about the English units, and only a little bit about the HRE. I plan to do the Aragonese next, then the Sicilians, then the Italian City states, and then just general ideas. I'll try to include English and HRE stuff in general ideas. I bought a book on medieval Scottish armies a few days ago, so I can post stuff on that too. Unfortunately probably most of this wont make it into the mod as it appears only 18 factions can be included, unless this is fixed in a patch (I hope so!)

EDIT - umm a bit of your sentence was cut off, did you say you would love to see the English or HRE units, or you would love to do them? If you want to do them then go right ahead, I dont know much so it would be interesting!

[Lazul]

waow this mod really sounds nice....

... but you I will for ever damn you all if you dont inculde the Swedes!

Ideas for Swedish units;

Svean axemen; "barbaric style"
Götar footsoldier; "more organised"
Longbowmen; "yes swedes accually used longbows, not of the english or welsh quality ofcourse"
Hirdmen; "kings bodyguard, get upgraded during the game, from swordwielding to lance-charging" :charge:

[buujin]

Ok athlete, heres my attempt at listing some units of the HRE, if anyone has any suggestion or comments please tell me as my knowledge is very limited.
Most of what i will list here is party what i think would be cool to include, as well as historical as far as i know.

Im wondering firstly if the this mod will cover the full medieval period? ( early , high , late ). like it did in mtw, if so then maybe there should be a faction unit list for each of these eras as many things will change within this timepsan.

here goes :

[EARLY ERA HRE UNITS ]


Goth Warband - (Mercenary unit) attack- 10 defence- 4 weapon- short spear men- 100 ( strong charge , good morale, vunerable to missles )
From what ive heard the Goths were a very old and tough germanic tribespeople that existed at around 200 ad onwards and migrated all over centeral europe and even into spain and italy. I Suggest they be recruited as mercenary units and i would imagine them as a tougher version of the slav warriors from MTW, a strong charge, a rather weak defence but good morale

Goth Cavalry - (Mercenary unit) attack 10 defence 14 weapon- spear men 52 ( very strong charge, good morale )
These guys are the nobels of the gothic federations, i think being a barbarian type people this unit could even be taken strait from rtw without any changes apart from the name (" goth " rather than "gothic")

Swabian Swordsmen - attack- 14 defence- 8 weapon- double handed sword men - 60 (armour pericing, very good morale)
The Swabians of south-western Germany are a tough people. Armoured in mail and armed with great two-handed swords, Swabian swordsmen are a powerful heavy infantry unit, with the emphasis on attack.

Early Imperial Bodyguard - attack- 14 defence - 20 weapon- heavy spear, sword men- 30 ( very strong charge , excellent morale )
The elite body guard of the german Emperors or Princes, very similar to the royal knights of other catholic kingdoms. Good armour and arms even in the early period, altho i dont belive heavy lances were used back then, hence spears.

Imperial Knights - attack- 12 defence 18 weapon - heavy spear, sword men 52 ( very strong charge , very good morale )
Some of the most well trained and eqipped western heavy cavalry in the early period, though very costly to recruit and upkeep.

Fuedal Knights - attack 8 defence 16 weapon - spear, sword men - 52
( very strong charge , good morale )
Feudal Knights hold land in return for military service. Trained from infancy to be warriors, they hold political and military power in their mailed fists. They are adept at charging down opponents with their lances, and they are honourable and brave to the point of recklessness!

Fuedal Men at Arms
Those seeking social position are often hardened warriors - war can bring wealth and social status. Because they are not rich yet, feudal men-at-arms wear second-hand mail looted from the dead (or that is just old fashioned). They carry broadswords and shields, making them equally good in attack or defence.

Spearmen
(defend well vs cav )
Spearmen are useful in almost any army, particularly against cavalry and, unlike other troop types, the first two ranks can fight thanks to their spears. They aren't likely to stand for long against professional men-at-arms, but they can give cavalry a nasty shock as long as they hold formation.

Archers
Archery is a survival skill: it helps put food on the table, assuming that the archer isn’t hanged as a poacher! Using the same skill in battle can bring down an armoured man, although short bows are not quite as efficient as true war bows.

Urban Militia
(defend well vs cav, armour peircing)
As cities and trade grow, so does the need for local defence. Some towns and cities can provide a locally raised force, recruited from among apprentices and journeymen. While they only have limited training, their polearms give them an advantage against armoured troops, and they are more disciplined than peasantry.

Militia Sergants
(defend well vs cav, armour peircing)
Militia formations are supplied by the people of growing towns, drawn from amongst the apprentices. Armed with fearsome polearms, they can do significant damage to enemies, but their training is not always of the highest. They can do well against lesser troops, but will quail before more professional soldiery.

Slav Warband
( strong charge , vunerable to missles )
Slav Warriors have been pressed into service by many lords. Armed with short spears, they are a good low-cost light infantry.

Fuedal Sergents
( defence well vs cav )
Feudal society is a hierarchy, and each rung of the ladder is expected to serve those above. Feudal Sergeants are a class below knights (but above landless peasants) and are often professional soldiers. Many lords will send these spearmen into battle as reliable medium infantry.

Mounted Sergents
( strong charge )
These cavalry are more lightly equipped compared to Knights, but they are fast and their heavy lances can be devastating when charging opponents. They are best used to charge home (to an enemy flank or rear, preferably) to cause maximum casualties. Their speed can help them disengage and evade pursuit.

[Armchair Athlete]

buujin - the mod will cover all 3 periods, early high and late (early starting in 1100).

Now for the Aragonese. They were somewhat of a mix of the defensive nature of the Portugese armies and the cavalry/offensive militia amies of Castilian Spanish. They had a very strong navy and after they conquered the Balearics and rule Sicily through the Sicilian Vespers revolt became a major naval power, competing with the Italian City States (mainly Genoa). The Black Death geatly diminished their power though. The Hospitaller knights were quite strong in Aragon, and assisted with several major battles, including the conquering of Valencia where they were granted border estates to form a buffer against Moor counter attack.

Urban Militia - done this unit before

Spearmen - done this unit before

Archers - done this unit before

Feudal Men at Arms - done this unit before

Chivalric Men at Arms - done this unit before

Jinetes - done this unit before

Apellidos - done this unit before

Caballeros Villanos - done this unit before

Hueste - attack 8 defense 13 (shield 6, skill 4, armour 3) weapon hand weapon men 120 Tier 3
A Hueste was another form of offensive militia service, similar to the Fonsado but was used more commonly by Aragon and Catalonia, and not being commonly used by Castile until the 13th century, when the Moors were almost already pushed out of Spain, holding onto only Granada. They were not as well armed as a Fonsado, but provided a fairly reliable bulk of men to hinge operations around.

Hospitaller Foot Knights - done this unit before

Heavy Lancers - done this unit before

Crossbows - done this unit before

Almughuvars - missile attack 12 melee attack 13 defense 9 (skill 6, armour 3, hitpoints 2) weapon javelin and hand weapon men 80 Tier 4
Almughuvars were Catalan Mercenaries that served throughout the Meditteranean. The word is actually an adaption from Algarave (raider), looking for riches after the pushing back of the Moors to Granada and not having much opportunities for raiding. The most famous of them were the Catalan 'Grand Company', a group of 6500 mercenaries employed by the Byzantines against the Turks in Asia Mior before rebelling and conquering Athens around 1321 (I think). They were evetually booted out by another Iberian Mercenary Company, the Navarrese Company. They are armed with Javelins which they throw before a charge (like a Roman Pila) and were very skillful, if lightly armed fighters. The bulk of them never actually used shields. They fight in a loose skirmishing group (like Silician Pirates in RTW).

Catalan Heavy Cavalry - melee 9 defense 19 (skill 5, shield 6, armour 8) weapon spear men 54 Tier 4
Catalan heavy Cavalry were cavalry that were better equipped than the standard Caballeros. There were small amounts of Catalan heavy cavalry in the Catalan Grand Company hired by the Byzantines, before they were betrayed and ambushed by a Byzantine prince and his Alan mercenaries and killed with their leader, Roger de Flor (A former Templar).

Thats all the historically accurate units I have, I think they should receive a higher Tier Spearmen unit or Halberdier but I dont know what. If anyone has suggestions then thats cool.

[AFM984]

@AFM984
I belive that most problems can be solved in time, so we are doing the work we can untill then. If the problems dosn't get solved, then we might use the units for historycal battles or something, but we will not give up just yet ~;)

~:cheers:

That is a good to hear, wish you the best of luck.

@Faisal: thank you, and thier is no need for translation because I am an arab " from Saudi Arabia", the name might have been a bit misleading (it stands for the initials of my name) , I will be looking for these books in the local library.
May I recommend "Albedayah wa Annehayah" Written by ibn Kathier almost 700 years ago. very good for the historical events that took place in the Islamic world. ~:)

I know I have diverted the mainsream of this thread & I'm sorry for that & the fact that I have nothing to contribute with, but I have a few maps that might come in handy if you want.
Thank you.

[Lord Adherbal]

guys all these lists are very usefull, but dont bother including attack/defence/... stats. A description about their weapons, strengths and weaknesses is more usefull, because stats will be changed trough balance testing anyway.

[Armchair Athlete]

As I said in my previous posts, I included it as merely a rough guide to see how effective each should be. There is no real difference between posting attack/defense values as a guide and saying whether they are more effective in attack and defense, its just using numbers instead of words. I also said that they would almost definately be changed for final release. Unless CA gives more factions then most wont be in anyway.

[VikingHorde]

Adherbal']guys all these lists are very usefull, but dont bother including attack/defence/... stats. A description about their weapons, strengths and weaknesses is more usefull, because stats will be changed trough balance testing anyway.
Stats are good when adding units to the text files. I used them for my last mod and then balanced them in custom battle. I find it very hard to set the unit strength without them, because I don't know that much about units in medieval times.

[Leet Eriksson]

@Faisal: thank you, and thier is no need for translation because I am an arab " from Saudi Arabia", the name might have been a bit misleading (it stands for the initials of my name) , I will be looking for these books in the local library.
May I recommend "Albedayah wa Annehayah" Written by ibn Kathier almost 700 years ago. very good for the historical events that took place in the Islamic world. ~:)

Hala, good to see another arab on the forums, i live close by hehehe ~;)

Anyways, you can find these books at jurair bookstore, i think they have a branch in Saudia Arabia, also if you have a cultural club (Al Mujama3 al Thaqafy) they have have a wealth of historical books.

I'll make sure to check the book you mentioned, sounds interesting.

[Sleaker]

Just so everyone here knows, Medieval Mod is now being hosted at stratcommandcenter.com official forums are http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/forums/index.php?showforum=40

Come on over and check us out.

[Armchair Athlete]

I will do what I know about the Sicilians now. I only have a few to go, so I might as well keep posting here so they are all in one place rather than a bit here and a bit at the SCC. They were a mix of Norman, Greek and Arab guys, a true cosmopolitan area, who during Norman rule co-existed fairly peacefully without too many problems. Normans originally came to southern Italy as mercenaries in about 1040, but soon joined together and conquered much territory. The last Norman King (Tancred) died in 1194, and Sicily passed into the hands of the HRE through marriage. So therefore the Normans should get no very advanced units. They would have a strong early and middle game, but weak late game. The Normans extended their influence over southern Italy as well (rich area but very rebellious) and also conquered and held Tunisia from the Zirid dynasty for a number of years, before being booted out by the Zirid remainders who then aligned themselves with the Almohads. The Sicilians had heaps of wars against the Byzantines too.

Urban Militia - done this unit before

Spearmen - done this unit before

Archer - done this unit before

Feudal men at Arms - done this unit before

Norman Knights - done this unit before

Norman Foot Knights - done this unit before

Crossbows - done this unit before

Horse Archers - done this unit before

Saracen Infantry - attack 10 defense 13 (skill 5, shield 4, armour 4) weapon spear men 120 Tier 3
Sicily was originally conquered and held by the Saracens, until the Normans came and after many years of struggle finally fully conquered the island in around 1094. The Normans were very tolerant of the Saracen culture, as the Saracens were to the Greeks before they conquered the Island, and many Saracens were given important positions of power. For example, only Saracens were given the post of treasurer and the ability to handle the Kingdoms finances. Many Saracens were also used in the army, when the Sicilian Kings encouraged them to retain their culture and even forbad them to convert to any other religion. The saracens were used by the Normans in many campaigns due to the fact they were Muslim and so were not affected by any papal interdicts or orders from Constantinople as other European and Greek troops were prone to. This era of (mostly) tolerance largely ended when the HRE inherited the island, and the nobles blamed the Muslims for trechary, forcing most to flee.

Saracen Archers - missile attack 9 melee attack 8 defense 5 (skill 4, armour 1) weapon compound bow men 80 Tier 4
Saracens from Sicily were also skilled in the use of archery, and many served in the Norman army as archers. They were capable as light infantry in an emergency, but would be crushed in hand to hand combat by more heavily armed opponents.

I think some early italian city militia units need to be added to the Sicilian Norman's list, as they conquered Southern Italy before they conquered Sicily, but I am not happy with the information I have for them so far so I will not write anything about that.

[Adelwulfs]

Armchair why you dont post in SCC Forums, just make a topic there and start posting your unit stats ~:grouphug:

[Armchair Athlete]

I would do but I've nearly come to the end of the knowledge I have. I only know a little bit about the Italians and thats about it. Dont know much about the others, but I just got the osprey book Medieval Scandanavian armies 1300-1500, so that might help. I dont kow if I can be bothered typing it all out again :dizzy2:

[Zharakov]

I would gladly help in makeing the mod if any help is needed. I may not fully know what im doing, but I have manny ideas.



Pluse I'm good with Russia.

[Armchair Athlete]

If you've got any more unit ideas for the Kievan Rus then it would be great if you could list them down! Always good to have experts on board.

[buujin]

Here Ill make an ideal list of Units for the Holy Roman Empire in the HIGH era:

Unit name - Unit type / Tier / primary weapon(s) / sheild(?)
( units main features )

Archers - Missle Infantry / Tier 1 / Bow, Shortsword
( vunerable to missles, poor morale )

Crossbows - Missle Infantry / Teir 2 / Crossbow, Shortsword
( poor morale )

Pavise Crossbows ?? - Missle Infantry / Teir 3 / Crossbow, Shortsword / Pavise
( very large sheild , slow moving )

Mounted Crossbowmen - Missle Cavalry / Teir 2 / Crossbow, Sword
( fast moving, Strong charge )

Spearmen - Infantry / Teir 1 / Spear / Sheild
( defend well vs cav, poor morale )

Urban Milita - Light Infantry / Tier 1 / Poleaxe
( armour peircing, poor morale )

Milita Sergants - Medium Infantry / Tier 1 / Poleaxe

Mounted Sargents - Cavalry / Tier 1/ Spear, Sword / Sheild
( powerfull charge )

Halberdiers - Heavy Infantry / Tier 3/ Halberd
( armour peircing , defend well vs cav , attack bonus vs cav )

Pikemen - Foot soldiers / Tier 3 / Pike
( defend very well vs cav, very good defence , poor morale )

Feudal Men at Arms - Medium Infantry / Tier 2 / Sword / Sheild

Fuedal Sargents - Foot Soldiers / Tier 2 / Spear / Sheild
( defend well vs cav )

Feudal Knights - Heavy Cavalry / Tier 2 / Heavy Spear, Sword / Sheild
( powerful charge, armoured, good morale )

Feudal Foot Knights - Heavy Infantry / Tier 2 / Sword / Sheild
( armoured, good morale )

Chivalric Men at Arms - Heavy Infantry / Tier 3 / Sword / Sheild
( armoured )

Chivalric Sergants - Foot Soldiers / Tier 3 / Spear / Sheild
( armoured, defend well vs cav )

Chivalric Knights - Heavy Cavalry / Tier 3 / Lance, Sword / Sheild
( heavily armoured, very powerfull charge, good morale )

Chivalric Foot Knights - Heavy Infantry / Tier 3 / Poleaxe
( armour peircing, heavily armoured, good morale )

Teutonic Knights - Heavy Cavalry / Mercenary or Tier 4 / Lance, Sword / Sheild
( heavily armoured, very powerfull charge , good morale )

Teutonic Foot Knights - Heavy Infantry / Mercenary or Tier 4 / Sword / Sheild
( heavily armoured , good morale )

Teutonic Mounted Sergants - Heavy Cavalry / Mercenary or Tier 4 / Lance, Sword / Sheild
( armoured, powerfull charge )

Teutonic Sargents - Foot Soldiers / Mercenary or Tier 4 / Spear, Sword / Sheild
( armoured, defend well vs cav, good morale )

Imperial Bodyguard - Heavy Cavalry /Tier 4 or Emporer's Bodyguard / Lance, Sword / Sheild
( heavily armoured, very powerfull charge , very good morale )

~:cool:

plz comment

[DeadRunner]

looks nice buujin
:bow:

[Armchair Athlete]

nice Buujin, just one point Feudal men at arms and chivalric men at arms should be higher Tiers, so that they dont replace each other so quickly. I put FMAA at 3 and CMAA at 5. Archers should be 2, as Tier one would just be Urban Militia.

[Zharakov]

For Kieven Russia

Name: Cossacks- heavy cavelry
Weapon: Pike, sword

Boyars (Novgorodya and Kieviean and hopefully Moscovite)
Bow, ax

Partizans- beffed up pesants
Ax, sword, bow, pike (multi roled)

Chevslavs- basicly heavy cavelry
Ax

Voiny Medvedya- Bear Warriors
Ax, club

Rossiiskie Rudokopy- Russian Miners (also beefed up pesants)
Pick ax, torch

Dubinushka- farmer, clubman 9literal translation is LITTLE CLUB)
Hoe, club



Buujin good list but what about the Gothic cavelry?

[Zharakov]

An idea just hit me. What if me made the game not only include midevil Europe and Middle east and Afrika. What if it also included Asia and evean better The Aztecs and Miya and Incia. So what if you will never be able to rule the whole world. It would just look so cool. Japaneese troops fighting Knights... think about it ~D .

[Armchair Athlete]

lol we cant do that the map would need to be massive

[Zharakov]

dang that would have been so cool. O well how did you like my list?

[Armchair Athlete]

had some good interesting units there, it was good. Do you have any information about what they looked like or how they were equipped? Just writing it out would be OK, to help the modellers, who may not know what they units even looked like. Its much easier to model off something rather than make it up ~:)

[buujin]

nice Buujin, just one point Feudal men at arms and chivalric men at arms should be higher Tiers, so that they dont replace each other so quickly. I put FMAA at 3 and CMAA at 5. Archers should be 2, as Tier one would just be Urban Militia.

Athlete, i gues what meant was by tier i mean the specific level of each type of unit building ("swordsmith" "swordsmiths guild" ect). If the two units were 2 tiers apart like u suggested, what would fill the gap in between.
I assume what u mean is more along the lines of the overall settlement level and its goverment building.

Anyway, here comes the final list for the Holy Roman Empire

The LATE era units. ( all the units from the high era should also be included here but i figured it a bit of a waste to paste them all again, so there are the NEW units that are only buildable once the late era begins)

Arbelasters - Missle Infantry / Tier 4 / Arbelaster , Shortsword
( armour piercing missles , poor morale, poor defence )

Pavise Arbelasters - Missle Infantry / Tier 5 , Arbelaster , Shortsword / Pavise
( armour piercing missles , poor morale , very large sheild )

Arqubuisers - Missle Infantry / Tier 2 / Arquebus , Sword
( armour peircing missles, weapons cause fear )

Handgunners - Missle Infantry / Tier 1 / Handgun , Sword
( armour peircing missles, weapons cause fear, poor morale )

Armoured Pikemen - Foot Soliders / Tier 4 / Pike , Shortsword
( defence very well vs cav, very good defence, armoured )

Gothic Knights - Heavy Cavalry / Tier 5 / Mace
( armour peircing , very heavily armoured , slow moving cav , good morale , strong charge, very good defence )

Gothic FootKnights - Heavy Infantry / Tier 5 / 2 Handed Sword
( armour peircing , very heavily armoured , slow moving , good morale , good attack , very good defence )

Gothic Halberdiers - Heavy Infantry / Tier 5 / Halberd
( armour peircing , heavily armoured , defend well vs cav , attack bonus vs cavalry , slow moving, good defence, )

Gothic Sergants - Foot Soldiers / Tier 5 / Heavy Spear
( heavily armoured , slow moving, defend well vs cav, very good defence )

Gothic Mounted Sergants - Heavy Cavalry / Tier 3 / Mace / Sheild
( armour peircing, heavily armoured , strong charge , good defence )

A distinction must be made between the Goths and "Gothic".
They are very different. The Goths were a germanic clan during the dark ages, whereas the term "Gothic" is, in this case a "style" in which military units were armoured ( very heavily, i think was the general idea :p ).


Thats all i can think of, plz tell me if ive missed anything out

[Zharakov]

No I believe you got it all. O and we are adding new units as well?

For the the Russ (I believe Russ is a better and more historicly correct name then PEOPLES OF NOVGOROD)

Kossaks (proper spelling)- were originoaly from the Cacuses mountian range(were the turm Caucasian comes from) they were a war like, barberic people who were considered barberieans by the RUSSIANS. For a while they were ignored but when they offered to act as merenary cevelry for the Keiviean Empire, they began to move into the Russian stage as the undefeatably wariors they were. Their biggest bonous was their un matched bravery. As for there aperence, Long beards, chain mail chest armour, padded leg armour, a scarf around their mouths,& an iron helmut.

Boyars- Boyars were the nobal Russ families of the Moskovite and Kieviean era. They were perhaps most famous for being the best cavelry archers in the world if not on the step. As for aperence, heavy iron armour, iron horse armour, those stupid looking hats in MTW as well,& large iron covered wooden shield.

Chevslavs- Near the end of the Middle ages Chevslavs were the Russian etempt to become more "western" like the Catholic factions. In basic terms, they were knight knockoffs. Aperence, basicly like a knight only with an ax.

Partizans- Pesants who were fameos for running to the aid of there nations army if they were needed. They usualy carried whatever they used for there life style as their weapon (if they were hunters a bow, woodsmen an ax...). They were also famed for their bravery that was believed to be beond that of a normal pesant, if not the average solder. Aperence is like anyother pesant only alittle more Russian...

Voiny Medvedya- The fabled bear wariors were smiler to the Viking Berserks to the point manny believed that they may have come from similer roots. For aperence, bear skin, leather pants,& padded armour.

Rossiiskie Rudokopy- Same thing as partizans, only a cooler name.

Dubinushka- More like angry peasents then a fighting force. Obviously not the best solders in the world, but its good to know the people support you... evean if you'r a Tyrent. Aperence, a peasent.

1 new one:

Brigands- The Brigands were archers who were known for there acuracy and their efective spycological warfare. It is said that at one siege, while Hungariean troops were pounding the walls with mangonell and catipolt fire, the Brigands on the walls had the nerve to stand on the walls taunting the Hungarieans buy exposing there arses and placeing naked women on the walls to ditract the men firering the catipolts. On another instance, they sang songs while the castle was besieged and drank and partied on the walls, besides the attckers like knowing the enemy is haveing a good time in there while they starve out here. Arperence, a chain mail "skirt", a iron hat that looks like a bowl,& an iron vest.


I hope theese help and I may try to make some of the units my self, but I'll need to learn how first.

[Zharakov]

Oops worded the question wrong.

Are we going to add manny new units?

Sourry ~:)

[Armchair Athlete]

Looks good buujin, I see what you mean about the tech tree now.

Zharkov - good descriptions, I dont know how many units we will be adding, we will have to wait and see

[Zharakov]

Ya spasibo tovarishch.

[Zharakov]

O crap I missed spelled one of them. Its not Brigands its Birgndz. Brigands are Rebals in Gaul.

[Voigtkampf]

Zharakov, your sig is far too big. Please reduce it to according to Org guidelines (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=18406) . Thank you.

[Zharakov]

Ok comrade no problem.

[Dirty peasant]

@Zharakov
Rossiiskie Rudokopy???????Российские рудокопы?Звучит глупо.Then we can add English Miners for england and French fishermen for France :dizzy2:

[Dirty peasant]

I mean you mustnt give weird names to russian units ~;) Call Dubinushka clubmen for example or just "peasants with clubs" , because for person who dont know russian name "Dubinushka" may sound good but for Russian (like me) -- stupid.No offence to you ~;)

[Zharakov]

Ty Russkii? privet ya mysl net drugoy Russkii kuda zdes.

Sourry my Russian isnt that great (Im not 100%) But you should get the point (My uncle is better he is 100% russian) ~;)

ok comrade I get the point. ~D

[Ar7]

Well this thread made me come back to the TW forums ( Haven't been here since august ) i never got interested in RTW and don't think i ever will . So i am waiting eagerly for this Mod and hope it will be great. Sure, the RTW engine is good, but with idiot unit names and untis like warband, swordsmen, selected swordsmen, druids, screaming women and headhurles the game is plain stupid. So seeing how much research is being done here i hope this mod will bring out the potential in the RTW engine.

As for the other issue:

Имена надо овоснововать, нэкоторыэ из них дэйствитэлно звучат глупо.

[masaki86]

viking horde, for someonewho is apparently in charge of this mod, you are doing decisivly little.

i see some excellent units, but by other people, and i dont thinks it's fair for you to get all the credit for others work. this mod, is apparently your mod, and i think its about time we see some work done.

[wilpuri]

Hi Viking Horde, I'm glad you're making the Medieval mod for RTW, I'm sure it will be great.

I remember reading that the Swedes will be in? If so, may I suggest a unit for them?

In the later years (from may be about 1300 onwards) they used Finnish peasants in their armies, armed with Crossbows. I can try to find a picture of them, but typically they would be unarmored, poor morale and only maybe a knife or dagger for melee.

Anyway, looking forward to this mod very eagerly.
~:cheers:

[Lord Adherbal]

viking horde, for someonewho is apparently in charge of this mod, you are doing decisivly little.

this is not VikingHorde's mod, we work as a team. Our official forum can be found at:
http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/forums/index.php?showforum=40

[VikingHorde]

well, even if it is a team, i think he is a week link, and he should be dropped, how about BKB, he's a much better modder.

What is your problem if I may ask? This mod is a team mod, so people are free to put as much work in the mod as they want. In my eyes, there are no people in charge. RTW is a new game, so I can't use my MTW modding skills for this game. Like a lot of other old modders out there, we need to learn how to make new 3D models, skinning, mapmaking ect. Currently im trying out all of it in order to know how RTW tics. As for BKB, he can join the projeck if he want to, but thats up to him. I don't want as big a role in this mod as I had in the XL mod, too much work for one guy. Why do you call me a "week link"?

@wilpuri
Sweden will not be in the mod until the 18 faction limit is removed. I hate this, but currently there is no choise.

[buujin]

Masaki i belive u are out of place for speaking to vikinghorde in this way..

For one this mod was horde's original concept and hehas taken a lot of time to help organise it. Horde has, to my knowledge not claimed whole responsibility for this mod nor overall authority and im sure greatly values the work that other modders have put in.

[Paul Peru]

Masaki i belive u are out of place for speaking to vikinghorde in this way..

Agree.
One of the good things about the org forums is that people tend to be polite.
Anyway, VH has made a very good mod for MTW. He deserves some respect.
Some growing up may be advised, or taking person-bashing tendencies elsewhere.

[Duke Dick]

well, seems someone is trying to cause trouble. masaki, you're out of line, i'd try to keep my mouth shut if i were you, some people cant take criticism well.

paul peru-how can you say that theorg is usually a polite place. firstly you've onlybeen a member for two months, but secondly, the release of rome has bought alot of new people to this forum, so there are a lot of new people who i have never met before.

[Zharakov]

People like you are the kind of people who wine because they didnt get something they want or the just feel like wineing. Which are you?

[Zharakov]

O and I was talking to masaki. I just wana confirm that so I dont tick any one important off.

[Dirty peasant]

@Ar7
Ха--хахахахаха!"Имена надо овоснововать, нэкоторыэ из них дэйствитэлно звучат глупо" а в конец еще "аллах-акбар" добавить.Щютка,слющий,да?!

Now for masaki-----VikingHorde deserves much credit because HE STARTED the mod , gave good advices for other modders , etc.Has he said that "Im going to take all credit for this mod and send other people into ***"?!So take your words and go to нахуй пошел короче...

[Dirty peasant]

Huh...Well..I hope none understands russian "bad words" here...

[Paul Peru]

paul peru-how can you say that theorg is usually a polite place. firstly you've onlybeen a member for two months, but secondly, the release of rome has bought alot of new people to this forum, so there are a lot of new people who i have never met before.
I may have registered a couple of months ago, but I've been lurking here for nearly 2 years. I think a nice, friendly climate makes for a refreshing change from some other forums, where comments about reproductive organs and/or mothers of other participants are abundant. It's not unusual for socially adept noobs to try to get a feel for the spirit of a forum and comply to rules of conduct. It's clear, however, that I stand corrected. I will rephrase my comment. IMHO one of the good things about this place used to be that people were reasonably polite.

[tombom]

I may have registered a couple of months ago, but I've been lurking here for nearly 2 years. I think a nice, friendly climate makes for a refreshing change from some other forums, where comments about reproductive organs and/or mothers of other participants are abundant. It's not unusual for socially adept noobs to try to get a feel for the spirit of a forum and comply to rules of conduct. It's clear, however, that I stand corrected. I will rephrase my comment. IMHO one of the good things about this place used to be that people were reasonably polite.
Yes. At the risk of this turning into a "the org is bad now but it used to be so great!" thread, I'm finding that people here are making me want to strangle them. I find all the other total war forums abrasive and a couple of people here are starting to make me hate them too. I prefered it before Rome.

[Zharakov]

Huh...Well..I hope none understands russian "bad words" here...


I didn't want to say anything...

[Duke John]

Keep things civil
Please do not resort to name calling and remember that you will always lose when you argue with a fool.

Things have been taken care off, so please get back to thinking happy thoughts :sunny:

Insulting posts have no place here, if you think that a post should be removed from this development thread then feel free to contact me.

Cheers,
Duke John

[Duke Dick]

i apologise for being hasty in my accusation, sorry.

this is my first time back in a while, so its gonna take me a while to realise who's who nowadays.

[Mouzafphaerre]

-

I have started working on units for a medieval mod and the first unit is almost done. The mod will be different to the original game because of the different structure of the game. Most units will be based on the units of the original game. I will post more details when I have explored RTW some more.

Good luck mate! ~:) I've subscribed to your thread. ~;)

Let me know if any of the modlet material will help.

:medievalcheers:
_

[DemonArchangel]

Turkish units Mouzaphaerre

[VikingHorde]

-

Good luck mate! ~:) I've subscribed to your thread. ~;)

Let me know if any of the modlet material will help.

:medievalcheers:
_
Turkish units could be cool :bow:

@All
We still need more skinners for this mod, so if anyone whats to join this "crusade" then PM me ~:)

[Solo]

Same as Mouzafphaerre if any modlet content (we have covered almost all medieval naming patterns) can help you, well you still have my email VH so dont hesitate. Also if you need some gfx artwork (interface and heraldry of course still my job irl) like i did for your xl mod but i wont have enough time for skins.

[VikingHorde]

Same as Mouzafphaerre if any modlet content (we have covered almost all medieval naming patterns) can help you, well you still have my email VH so dont hesitate. Also if you need some gfx artwork (interface and heraldry of course still my job irl) like i did for your xl mod but i wont have enough time for skins.
We could properly use some help on gfx artwork. I'll mail you when I know what work has to be done.

~:cheers:

[dclare4]

Hi guys,

I was wondering how you were going to do the crusades/jihad type units and the titles/offices? One thing that the TW series lacks is movement attrition or simulated desertion and the one feature that has that were MTW's Crusade/Jihad type 'units'. Is it possible to activate these old techs in Rome TW?

Thanks,
Clare

[Mouzafphaerre]

-

Turkish units could be cool :bow:
Will be done. :bow: Not too soon though...

I believe I have enough graphical data at least on certain time periods (mainly MTW-late). More could be acquired.


Same as Mouzafphaerre if any modlet content (we have covered almost all medieval naming patterns)
I believe there's no harm in revealing the secret hideout: ~D

http://data.forumhoster.com/forum_mtw/index.php

Stay tuned for some good news, about early 2005. ~;)
_

[VikingHorde]

@dclare4
I don't think we can add all the features from MTW, but maybe crusades by using the senate and the roman factions. We are still at the early stage of the mod, so we don't know all the limits yet.

@Mouzafphaerre
Sounds good, the muslim factions will hopefully be better than in the original MTW game with all the info we are getting :bow:

~:cheers: