the peasants revolt!

[Grand Duke Vytautas]

Another question for you MTW fans: I am playing the Almohads campaign, early age, it is about 1170 now, my huge empire has now streches from Syria across North Africa, Spain, France HRE, my ships dominate all seas, everything seems fine, now that I lowered the taxes to normal to make people loyal, but the peasants seem to revolt ALL ACROSS MOST OF THE EMPIRE after a tiny event, for example one lost battle or faction re-emergency. How should I prevent this? Maybe I should keep King's army in those trouble-some regions. Thanks.

[bretwalda]

The answer is probably: more happiness and loyalty buildings and more garrison troops (the cheapest one will do).




Another question for you MTW fans: I am playing the Almohads campaign, early age, it is about 1170 now, my huge empire has now streches from Syria across North Africa, Spain, France HRE, my ships dominate all seas, everything seems fine, now that I lowered the taxes to normal to make people loyal, but the peasants seem to revolt ALL ACROSS MOST OF THE EMPIRE after a tiny event, for example one lost battle or faction re-emergency. How should I prevent this? Maybe I should keep King's army in those trouble-some regions. Thanks.

[henoch]

province happiness increase;

-town watch (+10)
-town guard (+10)
-town militia (+10)
-country militia (+10)

brothel (+10/level)

college of surgeons (`heh +40)

church (+20)
mosque (+20)
monastery (+10)
reliquary (+30)
cathedral (+40)
grand mosque (+40) ..in lithunia, `lol
watch towers (+10) [twice???]
border fort (+10)

stolen with pride from.
RabTheRab; numerology thread (soon be here completly, i hope)
thx to motorhead

[Grand Duke Vytautas]

Thanks henoch for thorough advice

[R'as al Ghul]

Easy one.
Place a spy in every region you own.
Watch out for religious differences. To convert everybody to muslims, build mosques or put Alims into the province. A whole pack of them speeds things up.

R'as

[EatYerGreens]

Grand Duke,

it just goes to show that it's not enough to go off conquering the rest of the world and leaving the people in your homelands unprotected. Improving quality of life is all part of the deal and a lot of the improvements come cheaper than some units which you might choose to garrison with.

Border Forts all over the place are a good investment but you should check what buildings the other factions have first. If none of them have built Brothel buildings of their own then you needn't worry. If one or more of them do have one, then it's possible that they've put spies in all your provinces to reduce loyalty and stir up trouble.

If you prefer, like R'as suggested, you can place spies of your own on watch and they will gain stars by catching enemy agents. Assassins carry out the same function (but cost a lot more) and, with a few stars under their belts, they are that much more effective, especially in enemy territory - anything less than 2 or 3 stars and they're frequently caught by enemy BFs long before they reach their target.

On the religion issue, you should expect frequent trouble in the Catholic/Orthodox regions, especially when recently conquered but your army has since moved on to somewhere else, at least until you've done a decent conversion job on them using Alims/Mosques.

If you're getting rebellions in the regions you started off in then that is something to worry about. Are you being swarmed by Catholic bishops, while you're away? Build Mosques in home territories first. They will do a good job of maintaining the existing high faith levels whilst your Alims travel to more far off places. In Spain, France and Germany you'll probably only need to build one in a centrally located province (or wherever the most advanced castles are). The faith levels 'leak' into neighbouring provinces, so you don't need one in every province. The same is true of churches though so, if you haven't demolished them already, you should do that now. Check happiness score changes before/after after the first demolition, where the local garrison is small, just in case smashing them all in the same year causes even more trouble! You might even be perfectly happy with a 50:50 faith split across your kingdom.

With regard to garrisons, experiment by shuffling individual units in and out one at a time and watch the loyalty figure changing (repeated right-clicking after each piece is moved), until you get a figure you like the look of. You didn't say what your loyalty scores were like. Personally, if I spotted an enemy province with less than 110% and taxes already reduced to Normal, I'd be keen on getting a spy in there ASAP, whilst at 130% or more, I probably wouldn't bother.

I didn't realise specific buildings gave a happiness boost. SOmeone must have rooted that info out from one of the game data files. I have found that a long and extensive building program adds good V&V's to the region governor. The 'Builder' series carries a happiness booster factor of its own. Same goes for the 'Steward' series, which also leads to a percentage boost to agricultural output. I've seen a 20% booster on one governor, where the improvements were up to +80% already. The upper level farm improvements look expensive but you will get your money back in the medium to long term - assuming you don't win the game completely first!

Best of luck.

[Grand Duke Vytautas]

Thank you very much for your thoughts, eatyergreens. :bow: The fact is that I have alims, assasins and mosques in every province I own and loyalty almost everywhere is about 200%, I've placed centralised armies all over the empire to strike at those rebellions, but there is still a serious unrest among the peasants. They revolt all over again after some 5 years and from Spain across the North Africa to Middle East. It really bothers me :dizzy2: Maybe this happens because my Kings army is at one side of the empire? (His army is in Flanders, maybe that's why the peasants revolt? Should I bring him all across the empire to improve loyalty?). Or is it because of taxes: in most provinces they are set to normal, but in profitable ones - to very high to improve profit. (I have about 50000 florins at the moment, with an annual income of 10000). Maybe taxes cause the trouble, because how can a province with 200% revolt? Please help me.

[EatYerGreens]

Ah!

Provinces at 200% and they still revolt? Give or take what I've picked up by reading the messages in here, I'm a noob to MTW myself (previously a STW player), so I'm at a loss to explain it now. In your initial post, you didn't state what loyalty ratings you were getting so my response was on the assumption you were having them hover only just the right side of the 100% mark. Apologies for that.

All I can do is refer you back to your "question concerning rebellions" thread and the comment someone made in there about the "lame feature which makes rebellions more likely the more successful you get".

Keeps you busy on home turf and stops you rampaging across all of Europe too quickly ~;)

Just out of interest, when you put down these rebellions, do you slaughter them all on the battlefield or do you get prisoners? What are you doing with the prisoners? Kill all, kill the ringleaders or release all?

[Tomcat]

Grand Duke - definitely beneficial to keep your faction leader in a central location of your empire, preferably in a province with a port and NOT land-locked in central Europe. The further he is away from your outer provinces in terms of number of turns to reach them, the more likely they are to revolt. So keep him fairly central and definitely in a province with a port.

You will always find if you get provinces cut off from you by say enemy ships cutting the sea lanes, you must keep a very sharp eye on those provinces as they can revolt very easily and very quickly.

Tomcat

[Silianat]

Does your ruler have any bad vices. THis could also be a reason for the revolt. Yo might also want to chenk teh V&V of your governors.

[MidnitePiper]

I had something similar to this happening a while back - seems to have been the result of my choosing to enslave the rebels every time they rebelled. I was having massive trouble keeping them down, enslaving the offending rebels every year and getting new rebellions the next year. When my monarch died, suddenly everybody got real quiet and content - a real turnaround from teh usual drop in happiness that comes with the death of one of my Monarchs. Since then I've made a popint of freeing a majority of rebel troops and my uprising problems have largely disappeared...

[Grand Duke Vytautas]

Thanks guys very much for your answers :bow: One little thing though: what are those "vices and virtues", is it bad or good?

[Procrustes]

I had something similar to this happening a while back - seems to have been the result of my choosing to enslave the rebels every time they rebelled. I was having massive trouble keeping them down, enslaving the offending rebels every year and getting new rebellions the next year. When my monarch died, suddenly everybody got real quiet and content - a real turnaround from teh usual drop in happiness that comes with the death of one of my Monarchs. Since then I've made a popint of freeing a majority of rebel troops and my uprising problems have largely disappeared...

That's interesting. I believe that executing/enslaving rebels leads to the swift/rough/tough/random justice vices - increasing dread but decreasing happiness. Would be curious to see if you governors had accumulated a few. (Releasing captured rebels is supposed to lead to the "merciful" virtues - increasing happiness but decreasing dread.)

[Grand Duke Vytautas]

By the way, after rebellions I enslave all those trouble-makers, maybe that's why this mess is all about? But logically thinking I should do that - enslave, to show my power. How do you think?

[Procrustes]

Thanks guys very much for your answers :bow: One little thing though: what are those "vices and virtues", is it bad or good?


They're a mix of both. You can get a full list here:

http://www.mizus.com/Files/k0rgs8gVt/Faqs.shtml

[Procrustes]

By the way, after rebellions I enslave all those trouble-makers, maybe that's why this mess is all about? But logically thinking I should do that - enslave, to show my power. How do you think?

I understand your line of reasoning, but the other way to look at it is that if the population is unruly then a massacre probably isn't going to make them any happier - at best it can only instill some fear for a while. My current strategy is to release all the rebels the first time, then kill/enslave them all the second time. That way I get the first merciful v/v (+10 happiness) and the first justice v/v (+1 dread) without any of the penalties.

If you have a province you know you will have trouble with, give them a governor with lots of dread - ignore his acumen. If things settle down you can substitute someone else for him later.

Keep an eye on the vices of your governors - they accumulate without you knowing sometimes.

[MidnitePiper]

That's interesting. I believe that executing/enslaving rebels leads to the swift/rough/tough/random justice vices - increasing dread but decreasing happiness. Would be curious to see if you governors had accumulated a few. (Releasing captured rebels is supposed to lead to the "merciful" virtues - increasing happiness but decreasing dread.)

I thought so too. Probably a glitch in my latest install, but those VnV's haven't been showing up at all since I started playing again (neither has the merciful series) - but the effects, invisible though they have been, sure seem to be there!

@Procrustes - that VnV list isn't complete (off the cuff I can say that file is missing the Hard Sums and Clever with Words series), but reasonably thorough and probably the best one I've seen...

[MidnitePiper]

I don't seem to have an edit option, so I hope the mods will forgive this double post... :worried2:

I couldn't sleep tonight, so I kicked out a little more thorough study of Vices and Virtues. The link in my sig goes to the 'grouped' version, but there's also an alphebatized list. I'm calling it a 'more thorough' list, but I'm pretty certain I have them all...

[EatYerGreens]

I've not seen this 'enslave all' option so far. I only get relaease all/execute ringleaders/execute all. So, is enslavement something you are only offered when playing the Muslim factions or is it because I'm playing an unpatched v1.00 and have not yet installed Viking Invasion?

[MidnitePiper]

Same thing - Muslims enslave, Christians execute...

[Procrustes]

I've not seen this 'enslave all' option so far. I only get relaease all/execute ringleaders/execute all. So, is enslavement something you are only offered when playing the Muslim factions or is it because I'm playing an unpatched v1.00 and have not yet installed Viking Invasion?

It's a muslim thing - those factions "enslave" rather than "kill" but the gameplay is the same.

[Procrustes]

@Procrustes - that VnV list isn't complete (off the cuff I can say that file is missing the Hard Sums and Clever with Words series), but reasonably thorough and probably the best one I've seen...


Hmmm..... Your right! I have another one that I printed and use - it was an excel spreadsheet that I downloaded somewhere - seems to be much more complete than the "MTW_V&V.ZIP" file is. I'll scrounge around when I can - perhaps I can remember where I got it from.

[Ironside]

They revolt all over again after some 5 years and from Spain across the North Africa to Middle East. It really bothers me Maybe this happens because my Kings army is at one side of the empire? (His army is in Flanders, maybe that's why the peasants revolt? Should I bring him all across the empire to improve loyalty?).

There's a bug when attacking with the king. It appears that the game calculates loyalty to the maximun distance (= the king is on Ireland without port) when the king is attacking.
The problem is that this only happens during the turn for rebellions so you don't see it, instead you'll only see 200% loyalty before and 200% after, but you still get huge rebellions.

To put it short:
When your empire is big, DO NOT attack with your king.

[CherryDanish]

What others have said so far is correct and makes for good advice.

- Measure his influence and his dread to help keep the people in line. I always make every prince lead at least one battle (obviously before they sit on the throne) so they can pick up the scant mercy vice. 5% is 5%.
- always keep the king in a province with a port, somewhere in the middle of your realm.
- Always build and improve the agricultural production like crazy in any province the king is in for the steward and builder virtues.
- always target loyalty for at least 125% as that's the magc number for religious revolts
- always keep each province garrisoned with AT LEAST 100 troops to help avoid bandit armies.
- some provinces have a built in revolt factor. Places like portugal and lithuania are revolting ... erm ... people frequently revolt.
- spies ... ALWAYS use spies! One in every province. The more valour, the better, but valour is actually pretty marginal a factor for spies.
- never interupt your line of ships or leave enemy ships between your leader and his holdings.
- catholics, do not fail on crusades, your king loses influence.
- catholics, do not get excommed, it pisses of the faithfull
- use good governers, where zeal is high, use a pious leader.

[Ludens]

CherryDanish' list is pretty complete, but I would like to add a few. Some of these have already been mentioned.
Keep track of the V&V list appearing at the start of the year: it will tell you which governors are developing vices that may lower loyalty.
Spy valour is important: the spy formula is +[40 + 20 * {spy_valour}] % loyalty, meaning that a two star spy is twice as effective as a zero star one
Watchtowers, borderforts, churches and brothels all increase loyalty. However, cathedrals and brothel upgrades don't increase this bonus.
The advice for crusades also applies to Jihads, off course
Do not let your king get separated from your empire! This will spell doom on loyalty because his influence bonus will disappear.

[Procrustes]

There's a bug when attacking with the king. It appears that the game calculates loyalty to the maximun distance (= the king is on Ireland without port) when the king is attacking.
The problem is that this only happens during the turn for rebellions so you don't see it, instead you'll only see 200% loyalty before and 200% after, but you still get huge rebellions.

To put it short:
When your empire is big, DO NOT attack with your king.

Very interesting - Thanks!

[Procrustes]

- some provinces have a built in revolt factor. Places like portugal and lithuania are revolting ... erm ... people frequently revolt.

Hi,

Each province has a "rebelliousness" factor that can range from 0 to 4. Most provinces have a factor of 0 - these don't:

Ireland 1
Khazar 1
Lithuania 3
Livonia 4
Pomerania 1
Portugal 4
Prussia 2
Scotland 2
Serbia 1

(I lifted this info from the "MTW Region Guide" by FroStone: http://www.mizus.com/Files/k0rgs8gVt/Faqs.shtml)

HTH,