View Full Version : When is Marius going to get off his...
reddog11
10-29-2004, 10:03
Im at 214 BC and the reforms havent happenned yet? Is the timing entirely random or does it depend upon something that i am doing?
In my 1st campaign as Julii it happpenned around 235bc. Im playing as the Brutii now and nothing. Getting frustrated.
reddog11
10-29-2004, 10:11
to do that im just required to get a city over 12k right?
The_Emperor
10-29-2004, 10:17
24K I think. Imperial palace is the highest city level.
reddog11
10-29-2004, 10:21
odd because when i played the Julii i dont think i ever got a town to 24k but the reforms still happenned around 235 bc.
One of the other romans probably built it (I'd guess the Scipii at Carthage). It takes effect for all romans if one faction gets there.
reddog11
10-29-2004, 10:41
thats right, forgot about that. thanks.
problem is that the AI for the other Roman factions is stupid. its 214bc and they havent even taken carthage yet. ugggg.
Bob the Insane
10-29-2004, 10:45
LOL...
There loads of people on this forum that would love the reforms to have not occured by that date as it occurs so early from both a historical and gameplay point of view... ~D
reddog11
10-29-2004, 11:19
yeah but it just gets tough trying to slog through to Byzantium with principi and hastai. the blood is flowing.
The reform does indeed need to be pushed back and possibly implemented in a different manner. As it is, we are suddenly unable to flesh out manipular formations and may miss triarii altogether (I did).
I would prefer to get a message that says the reforms are underway and will be in place in 5 years or so.
I think it got changed during development. In the file that lists the events and the dates, the Marian Reforms are listed, but commented out.
I think it got changed during development. In the file that lists the events and the dates, the Marian Reforms are listed, but commented out.
They gave it a variable (but ineveitably the trigger got figured out) so that the Marian Reforms would'nt be predictable. What happened in MTW is you knew the Mongol Horde came at 1230 so people would camp out in Kiev.
Well, there could be two conditions, a data and/or building trigger. The reforms could be prevented from occurring before date X and be forced to occur by date Y, and only within that window would the construction of the Imperial Palace trigger it before date Y.
Best of both worlds maybe?
I prefer it to be completely triggered by the player. Some people play fast and I'd prefer not to waste hours clicking on end turn after end turn just to be able to use Marian units. The problem right now is that Imperial Palace is too easy to get to after Pro-consul's Palace and it just happens too early. Something like requiring 2 Imperial Palace level buildings might be better. That's likely going to add more than 10 turns, at the least.
Empedocles
10-31-2004, 00:36
Ok, In my case Marius Reform came nearly at 250 BC!!! I didn't build an imperial palace or anything, it just happened. (to the point that nearly 230 I have a city as big as necessary to build full legions!!)
diego, from Argentina
PS: I believe RTW is a great game but I HATE that you can't leave your construction queue full without spending the money just like the others TW!!! I have to micromanage and I hate it!
I would prefer to get a message that says the reforms are underway and will be in place in 5 years or so.
I'd settle for a message the they did happend... (playing my first game, having one of the other factions triggering it)
King Yngvar
10-31-2004, 03:52
In reality it happened in 107 BC if I am not mistaken. So even if you have not gotten it in 214 you should not complain...
Sin Qua Non
10-31-2004, 05:04
And I haven't made it to 107BC in any of my campaigns yet.... at the rate this game seems to go, the world would be conquored by early legions.
I definitely prefer a play-based trigger, rather than fixed date. I have yet to play a campaign beyond 200BC. In MTW, I never got to use firearm units.
The best trigger in my opinion is when the Roman factions COMBINED reach 50 provinces if the human player is roman , and when they reach 30 provinces if the human player is non roman.
The first rule ensures a roman player gets to use the new units in the civil war at least.
The second rule ensures that non-roman players get to face the new units , unless they really want to finish quickly.
How about a random fixed date between 150 and 80bc? I think that would work rather well and isn't at all hard to implment.
How about a random fixed date between 150 and 80bc? I think that would work rather well and isn't at all hard to implment.
That would put it out of reach of a lot of players. Even as a total newbie trying to figure out how RTW works, I finished my fist campaign at 170 BC. I finished my 2nd at 197 BC. I'll never see post-Marian units if that was the case.
I'd rather have a trigger after the Imperial Palace. Maybe a fixed 10 years after someone builds an Imperial Palace or after 2-3 Imperial Palace level buildings have been built, etc.
I like the 50 roman provinces idea, but I think if the player is not roman, the trigger should be one roman faction being destroyed. It was that kind of danger that provoked the reforms in reality.
Sin Qua Non
10-31-2004, 23:12
I also like the idea of an event controlling the reforms. The only date restriction should be one to prevent the reforms from going off too early. Event + later than 200BC, for instance.
metatron
10-31-2004, 23:20
The reforms should only happen after you get several gold experienced units, as they were brought about by experiences in war.
Some of the changes mentioned here are really drastic. I hope they won't make too many changes. I'd actually like the reforms to happen midway through my game not while I'm already cleaning up the opposition or long after my LONG campaign is actually finished.
Bob the Insane
11-01-2004, 01:17
Post Marian units kick arse compared to the pre marain ones...
Do any of those people who finish the full campaign before 100BC think the early emergence of the Post Marian units helped with that??? Or would it have been just as possible only using the Pre-Marian units??
Does the campaign game start too early perhaps?? What could be done to slow the rampant conquorer (player or AI)??
Do any of those people who finish the full campaign before 100BC
You mean there is people who actually finished the campaign AFTER 100 BC ? 0_o
Or would it have been just as possible only using the Pre-Marian units??
No problem about that.
on my 2nd campaign game. going for total conqest. every province. in the first i finished way before 150 b.c. and am on track for that in this current one too. so i've stopped expanding to allow for development ofa couple of minor ai factions into regional powers. its getting to be a much more challenging game.
What version do you have? Once I've finished having 50 provinces and Rome, I can't do anything anymore. Do you delay conquering Rome?
I could finish the game without the post-Marian units. I might need to change my strategy into something more like the zerg swarm in Starcraft but it is possible.
My playstyle is as a maximizer. I try to move every single thing I can move and sometimes reload even if there is just a single diplomat in the middle of nowhere I forgot to move. I only slow down my conquering for teching.
I completed my first game in 170 B.C. as a total newbie. I'll never finish it later than that, now that I know what I'm actually doing.
Bob the Insane
11-01-2004, 12:15
No problem about that.
I assume you have used a mod which allows you to continue producing Pre-Marian troops or something like that or do you just never suffer any casualties.. ~;)
Then I will repeat my second set of questions:
Does the campaign game start too early perhaps??
What could be done to slow the rampant conquorer (player or AI)??
I assume you have used a mod which allows you to continue producing Pre-Marian troops or something like that or do you just never suffer any casualties.. ~;)
Nah, I just meant that, even if Marius reform never kicked in, I would have no problem taking over the rest of the world with producing only pre-Marius units.
It would need a bigger number of troops, but it's not like money or population is a problem after the first thirty years.
Then I will repeat my second set of questions:
Does the campaign game start too early perhaps??
No, it's just that human players are able to conquer effectively, and that there isn't enough to do except conquering ^^
What could be done to slow the rampant conquorer (player or AI)??
More emphasis on diplomacy and civil management.
I think a good idea might be to limit the trigger to palaces built in the Roman starting cities or at least in cities that have a high level of Roman culture. In other words the Scipii could build it in Carthage but it would only act as a trigger after the city had been thoroughly Romanized. It would make it unpredictable but still delay it somewhat.
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