Sally against the AI

[Maltz]

Hello:

I have heard many stories of stupid AI when sally against. We will fight an easy battle with 100:1 casaulty ratio. Basically, once the AI controlled units get lured into the tower's firing range, they don't pull back at all and wait for their death.

I personally haven't seen any of this - the AI controled little guys were pretty smart - they pull back everytime. The only exception is the "long range" missle troops like "archers of crete". AI stands still for those long-range arrow fires. That's the only possibility I can think of now - get some of these archers and sally one after another to gradually thin down the troop count.

For all the regular sally battles I have played so far, I always have a hard time because the AI just camp far away and wait. I wonder what triggers the AI to stand still in a tower's range? For example, perhaps I need to send out a "sacrifice unit" to lure the AI to charge, and let them die just outside the gate? Now there are 2 stacks of Greeks outside Croton and I wish to get rid off them. Although they are still my ally, I know what they want to do once they've gathered enough guys. Or I might as well get some long-range archers...
~:cool:

[Jugurtha]

Hmm, I have found that the AI does move into range of the towers and walll archers and just stands there.

I try to send out some skirmishers to harry their units most likely to attack without orders, if they have any. Otherwise, they seem to like coming after my general more than anything else. They usually just charge in when they see him, I just race him back through the doors and they stand arouns like lemmings.

[zhuge]

I was defending Tylis against a Pontic horde. Had the advantage of the walls but not of numbers as my Julii troops were a bit depleted after taking Tylis and Pontus attacked right on the next turn. So I decided to push my general forward and draw them near to the walls. Sure enough they came running right after my general even though they had no battering ram.

Withdrew my general into the city and had my Velites and Hastati have some fun with javelins on their troops as they stood outside stupidly. A few of them withdrew after taking damage. My general sallied out again and passed close to the walls and again they took after him, this time taking damage from the towers.

A few enemy troops managed to circle around to the back to locate a breach in the wall I had made when I took Tylis but didn't have time to repair. However I had my troops ready for them once they entered and they weren't too hard to defeat piecemeal.

Anyway, the AI should be scripted not to engage any army within firing distance of the towers if they have no siege machines, otherwise they are just handling out free kills.

[Mori Gabriel Syme]

I also have not had the AI come up to my wall & stand there. In one sally battle when I tried to lure them with a unit standing by the gate, they would go for it, but I would withdraw the unit inside the gate quickly so that the enemy couldn't follow it in (almost too late once), & the enemy turned around & moved back out of range. That happened several times in that battle.

[Bhruic]

It depends on the strength rating of your army vs theirs I've found. If they have a more powerful army, they seem to try and "charge" you, and get halted by the walls. But if your forces are roughly equal (or you are more powerful), they will sit back and wait.

The trick is to use cavalry against them. Horse archers are best, but if you don't have them, regular will work. Bring them around to the flanks of the enemy lines. The enemy will peel off a few units to chase you. Have the unit that is being attacked run, and then charge their rear/flank with another unit. Or, you can wait, usually the attacking unit will stop and turn around if you feel from it. Then charge it with your cavalry. In either case, you'll get a flank attack on them, often routing them immediately. Rinse and repeat until the enemy is taken down.

If the enemy army is mainly cavalry/archers, then it will be more difficult. You need to adjust the tactics presented above to make it work. Make sure that you are doing the attacking near your walls so that your towers are shooting the enemy when they make their charges.

Bh

[Accounting Troll]

I think the AI is trying to position its troops so that they can rush in to your city when you open the gates and attack them. If that happens, you will lose the city unless you can drive out or kill the enemy.

Hopefully when CA releases the patch, they will tweak the AI so it doesn't use this tactic when the city is protected with stone walls.

[zhuge]

It depends on the strength rating of your army vs theirs I've found. If they have a more powerful army, they seem to try and "charge" you, and get halted by the walls. But if your forces are roughly equal (or you are more powerful), they will sit back and wait.


Makes perfect sense. Probably also explains why enemy generals appear particularly susceptible to a luring approach to get them to commit suicide on your spears when they outnumber you. Some AI tweaks would be nice I suppose but even in earlier games (S:TW and M:TW), I believe a luring tactic usually worked so I don't think it's a bug exclusive to this game only.

[Bhruic]

The only time I've ever seen an AI unit enter through an open gate was by accident. And then the units just milled around and did nothing until I killed them. For some reason the AI isn't programmed to take advantage of an open gate. It would certainly make sallying more difficult if they were.

And I don't have a problem with the "luring" tactic so much, that is semi-valid. The problem is when the army rushes forward and just stands there. I haven't sallied, so there is nothing for them to attack. They should recognize that if a tower is hitting them, and they have no valid targets, that they should move.

Bh

[Maltz]

Thank you for all the inputs. I was testing on this subject last night, and I could reproduce the above experiences. I wiped out two entire stacks with towers!

(1) Yes, human player's army has to be weaker than AI's.

(2) AI's army will not march forward until human player's unit (1 unit is fine) walks out of the gate. AI's entire army will RUN to the tower's range, and stay there. :dizzy2:

(3) When AI's army is weakend to a point that its army becomes weaker (about 60-80% of strength?) than human player's army, AI will issue a full retreat. This is the time to get all of the cavalry out to massacre the slow moving infantry.

[Nestor]

Probably the AI army thinks that it is defending the city. It is defending but someone has to inform it that it's looking things inside out!

("No, this is not your city, these are not your towers...", "Sorry to tell you but you are getting killed here...")

Hope the developers can do some teaching.

(Until then I'll be using it :embarassed: )