View Full Version : How do I switch of the battle timer?
Can someone tell me how to switch the damned battle timer off?
Its a really stupid idea and its getting on my nerves now.
I know how to do it in a new campaign: Go into historical battles first - then start the campaign.
You have to download a mod from twcenter to disable it from an existing campaign.
therother
10-31-2004, 21:18
ShellShock's RomeSAGE ( http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=11393) switches it off, and it can do a few other things too. Highly recommended.
I think I'm a little too agressive against the AI. I only noticed the timer after I'd been playing 3 weeks; its never had the chance to run out ~D
Sin Qua Non
10-31-2004, 23:03
There's also TiLiN, which is a handy app that edits the time limit from the savegame. TWCenter should have it.
How do I switch it on?
An enemy army assaulted my settlement. I killed all their infantry and destroyed most of their siege equipment. They had only cavalry left (ie no chance of getting inside the city). I thought victory was mine but nooo.... the enemy cavalry stayed out of range and I hadn't enough troops to attack them outside the walls (and I shouldn't have to!)...
therother
11-01-2004, 08:57
How do I switch it on?Use the same tools that Sin Qua Non and I recommend above. They can switch it on and off.
Downloaded TiLin which works a treat.
No more stupid timeouts when fighting seiges ~:)
Has anyone come across any problems with the timer off?
I can't think why it should be awkward but perhaps becuase I've never tried it I have not noticed situations that are resolved by its existence.
The_Emperor
11-01-2004, 13:08
How do I switch it on?
An enemy army assaulted my settlement. I killed all their infantry and destroyed most of their siege equipment. They had only cavalry left (ie no chance of getting inside the city). I thought victory was mine but nooo.... the enemy cavalry stayed out of range and I hadn't enough troops to attack them outside the walls (and I shouldn't have to!)...
I think that if you have the timer off and you are inside the walls and the enemy is outside and has no way inside you can easily quit the battle and it will be a draw... You might want to test this though.
Bob the Insane
11-01-2004, 13:55
How do I switch it on?
An enemy army assaulted my settlement. I killed all their infantry and destroyed most of their siege equipment. They had only cavalry left (ie no chance of getting inside the city). I thought victory was mine but nooo.... the enemy cavalry stayed out of range and I hadn't enough troops to attack them outside the walls (and I shouldn't have to!)...
This is the only issue with disabling the timer (IMO)... Everything else works pretty well, but if you beat off an assault but are not strong enough to finish off the attackers outside your gates they attackers will just mill around not knowing what to do... If you escape the game you lose and I can not really argue without that becuase you don't want to create a situation where the player gains an advantage by quiting a battle...
In this case you can abuse another issue with the AI and send your quickest units out of the gate to lure the enemy in close enough for your towers to finish them off...
The other side of the coin is there should be some way of continuing a seige after a failed assault, imagine if you were assaulting the settlement and with bad luck lost your eige equipment but most of your troops are still okay, should you not be able to continue the siege???
I think the AI is making a silent protest about this game logic... ~D
This is the only issue with disabling the timer (IMO)... Everything else works pretty well, but if you beat off an assault but are not strong enough to finish off the attackers outside your gates they attackers will just mill around not knowing what to do... If you escape the game you lose and I can not really argue without that becuase you don't want to create a situation where the player gains an advantage by quiting a battle.
Iamb surprised to hear this, I thought the only way to win in a seige was to capture the market square flag or wipe out the garrison. So, I thought any indecisive result would be classed as a draw.
In this case you can abuse another issue with the AI and send your quickest units out of the gate to lure the enemy in close enough for your towers to finish them off...
Must admit I've used this technique in the past, another option is to lead them in a stern chase around the foot of your walls, which sometimes works better than trying to get back through the gate in a hurry.
The other side of the coin is there should be some way of continuing a seige after a failed assault, imagine if you were assaulting the settlement and with bad luck lost your eige equipment but most of your troops are still okay, should you not be able to continue the siege???
My own preference would be for a optional battle timer and time limit every time there is a battle. That way one can turn the damned thing off for seiges but turn it on for battles or sallies etc. I also think an optional duration should be offered 30 minutes just isn't long enough for a decent battle or siege.
We aren't all rush kiddies some of us want a decent wargame.
Sin Qua Non
11-01-2004, 20:15
I just downloaded RomeSage which happens to implement TiLiN into the app. I recommend it highly. Great app.
Iamb surprised to hear this, I thought the only way to win in a seige was to capture the market square flag or wipe out the garrison. So, I thought any indecisive result would be classed as a draw.
I think you're missing the point - you won't lose per se, but without timer the battle will never end, thus forcing you to fortfeit the battle.
We aren't all rush kiddies some of us want a decent wargame.
I soooo agree with this statement.
I turned off the battle timer specifically because I found myself having to intentionally do stupid things during sieges just to beat the timer when fighting in a huge city layout.
Secondarily, given how the battles play out right now, the timer is pretty much useless anyway. If you outnumber the AI it tends to bolt pretty quick (I frequently find myself chasing it off the field of battle). If it out-numbers you, it throws all its units at you immediately (so again the timer isn't an issue). The even situations are a bit of a muddle so I find myself getting close, showering a few thousand arrows its way, then closing for melee long before the timer expires.
The only battles where time is an issue are sieges, and only on the large/huge layouts, where if you pick the wrong point to seige the city it can take most of the timer for your guys just to walk to the center square. God forbid the walls should be contested.
Sin Qua Non
11-01-2004, 20:47
I'm sure it's been said before, but I would love a "declare victory" function, like Sid Meier's Civil War series. Just a button that allows you to say, "go ahead, back to your homes & farms... continue farming and trading... when those 6 horse archers or 9 skirmishers on that hill over there give you a hard time, just come to me. Or better yet, stab them yourself.
the only time I do run into the no battle timer problem is the same as everyone else; when the AI can't complete the siege but I can't rout them. Doesn't happen often though, and the ability to withdraw from a siege might solve it.
I think you're missing the point - you won't lose per se, but without timer the battle will never end, thus forcing you to fortfeit the battle.
Last night I did a sally battle without the timer and eventually it ground down to a stalemate.
I had run out of arrows and rocks to fire at the enemy and despite the best efforts of my own onagers my wall was only 40% damaged so the battle just petered out.
I'm not sure what would have happened at this point if I had quit from the battle and I was not in a mood to experiment last night. Would I have lost the town?
Personally, I don't care if I would have lost the battle as I had inflicted heavy losses on the enemy and it was a hopeless sally anyway so I didn't expect to win. But I certainly didn't want to lose the city on a technicality.
What I actually did instead was move two units of cavalry out of the cities side gate. This got the AI interested and they began to move their units around the town to attack the new target. Taking fire from all my wall towers enroute.
Their lead unit eventually arrive with only 14 horsemen left alive which I attacked and slaughtered. I then withdrew into the town before their main infantry force arrived.
The cavalry then moved across town and exited by the opposite gate. The AI tried to counter-march and got stuck on the walls. Several units were wiped out by tower fire others managed to find dead-ground under my walls that kept them alive. I used my light infantry to pepper these with javelins until I ran out.
Finally, I exited the city with my cavalry and four cohorts of heavy infantry and began taking out the isolated enemy units one by one. Charging them face on with my infantry and then hitting them in the flank or rear with the cavalry so that they broke and fled before wiping them out to a man.
I worked my way round the walls dealing with each pocket of resistance in turn until their general finally lost his nerve and tried to quit the field. I then chased him down and killed him.
There were no survivors out of an army of over 1,400 men. However, the key point was that the Scipii army had no seige artillery I think if they had it could have got a bit awkward.
I'm not sure what would have happened at this point if I had quit from the battle and I was not in a mood to experiment last night. Would I have lost the town?
I assume you would, but now that I think about it I'm not actually sure. Maybe I should test it sometime, hmm?
I've done the very same thing you describe to avoid losing in a hopeless sally. The AI decided to camp his entire army within reach of my gatehouse on the other side, and then it was just a question of setting time to very fast and making some coffee while waiting...
In the end I charged out and killed the shaken remnants.
Sin Qua Non
11-02-2004, 10:09
If you sally, I believe it will be a draw as long as you can get all of your remaining units back into the city. You don't even have to fight, or you can fight and have a poor showing. Even if the enemy is still ready to fight, all you have to do is exit out. If they happen to be using siege engines at the time, that may be a different story. Haven't tested it, because the AI never seems to use siege engines prematurely, when they do show up at all in a sally.
And what's up with the AI attempting a second siege with the battered units of a first failed siege? I laid the smackdown of antiquity on a 1400 troop egyptian army with my 1200 unit army, and then next turn he comes back with the remaining 120 survivors, maybe reinforced by an errant stack of the same number. 1200 vs 240 and I have the walls? :dizzy2:
Bob the Insane
11-02-2004, 10:37
You are defending in a siege...
If you sally and end the battle by quiting then it is a draw. Any casulties suffered remain and the siege continues. If you have the timer on and the time runs out before you lose then it is a draw.
If the AI assaults and kills your men you lose, if you quit the battle during the assault you lose. If you beat off the AI (say destroy all it's siege equipment) and the timer runs out the AI loses. If you have no timer the AI will sit around looking confused until you do something.
Note you have no option to withdraw your units in these first two situations.
You are attacking in a siege...
If the AI sallies against you you could withdraw your troops and lose, they could defeat your troops and you lose, you could quit the battle and lose. If the timer runs out it is a draw and siege continues. If there is no timer and the AI sallies against you and you beat them they will end up in their city square doing nothing. In this situation you have to take the city or lose the battle and the siege.
If you assault the settlement and withdraw you lose, if you quit the battle you lose, if the AI drives you off you lose. If the battle timer is on and runs out you lose. The only way to not lose is to take the settlement.
In those last two situations if you have build any siege equipment it will be deployed and available for use...
A couple of points, I think withdrawing from a battle is treated by the engine in the same way as if you where routed from the battle and when you sally against the AI and it has no siege equipment is it possible that the AI has made a judgement call and decided it's best chance is to starve you out??
Thanks for the clarifications :bow:
Slight clarification on the sally results. If you quit out, all your units are within the city, and the gates are closed with no breaches and no siege equipment for the besiegers, then it's a draw. I made the mistake of quitting out on one sally before the last unit got into the city completely, and the computer assigned me a bunch of casualties. It seems to take that as an open field battle outside the walls instead of a missile fight.
Bob the Insane
11-02-2004, 17:34
Slight clarification on the sally results. If you quit out, all your units are within the city, and the gates are closed with no breaches and no siege equipment for the besiegers, then it's a draw. I made the mistake of quitting out on one sally before the last unit got into the city completely, and the computer assigned me a bunch of casualties. It seems to take that as an open field battle outside the walls instead of a missile fight.
Was it still a draw???
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