View Full Version : Which do you consider more "Roman"? HRE or Byzantium?
jsadighi
10-31-2004, 21:55
After conquering France, Scandanavia, and liberating the Holy Land from Islam with the English (that's as far as I'll go! I have a lot of trouble with with the rest of Europe!) I want a new challenge. So, it's time to bring the Roman Empire back to its former glory, but I'm having trouble in deciding which faction to pick. The HRE or the Byzantines.
Some people would say the HRE for some obvious reasons but I find that its German culture a little too "German" and not so much "Roman". This leaves me with the Byzantines who seem to have kept their Romano-Greek culure in tact. However, they seem to have a harder difficulty rating, but then again don't run the risk of the excommunication consequences from the pope. (Plus they don't have the advantage of building Gothic Knights).
So, what do you think? Who should I pick?
Spartakus
11-01-2004, 02:26
I would say the Byzantine Empire represents the old idea of Rome, while the HRE is a new one. They're not without similraties, though, remember Otto II who married a Byzantine princess, and their son Otto III who introduced many Greek customs at the German court. There exists a contemporary illustration of this: http://www.trinidadstate.edu/art111/chap14/ottoIII_enthroned.gif
He looks quite "Roman Emperor", no? ;)
Well, I remember the very first game of MTW I played was as the Byzantines. I had this romantic idea of re-uniting the entire Ancient Roman Empire and succeeding where Emperor Justinian and his generals, Narsus and Belisarius, failed. So if you want to do something a little closer to history, I'd pick Byzantium because they actually did try to restore the former Empire at one point.
metatron
11-01-2004, 06:57
Constantinople is Rome. End of story.
If you wanted to argue about lineage, you could argue that the HRE was never fully rejected by Constantinople, but they did elevate themselves above the HRE. You could say that the Germans were somewhat considered (at least on paper, once or twice) their juniors.
Adrian II
11-01-2004, 07:40
So, what do you think? Who should I pick?If you read up on medieval history (which is what most people playing MTW like to do sooner or later) you'll find that the Roman military, political and philosophical legacy was better preserved in Byzantium than in the HRE. Besides, the Byzantines are arguably the easiest faction to play in Early. They have lots of land and income, well-hung generals (hung with command stars, that is...) and the added advantage that they continuously produce princes (oh alright, Byz emperors are well-hung in the other sense, too) who all come with their own Kataphraktoi bodyguard, which is a real asset in the opening phase of the game. Finally, your early neighbours are interesting to fight: the Turks with their funny horsies, the Russians with their Boyars, the Egyptians with lots of camels. You'll be diversifying troops and tactics early on. So I'd suggest you put on your iron suit and get those Kats on the road.
Enjoy! :charge:
jsadighi
11-01-2004, 11:34
Byzantium it is then! It's time for Rome's Legions to be feared once more! Screw the pope, Italy belongs to Rome!
I'd go Italy. The Roman empire, at its greatest extent, was still ruled from Rome I thought, and that it was only after it's peak that the capital was moved to Byz, though I may be wrong. The Germans are one of the significant reasons behind the collapse of the Roman empire, so that doesn't seem quite right.
Italy is like my 2nd favorite faction, England being the first. Italy has the gothic units, Italian Infantry, Genoesse Sailors, cheap ships, Hospitallers...I just like it.
lancelot
11-01-2004, 17:20
I was always a BYZ man! But I just kept my starting territory re-established good Byz culture down to egypt and Id go for scandi too and leave it at that and let the GA points win it for me.
OH yea get 'the boot' of Italy too (goldmine).
the pope is nothing but the patriach of rome, ..like the patriach of constantinople..
the HRE would have made the pope, patriach again[where i would loved option to declare someone "pope" as ceasar-player (Hre,byzanz). what failed.
also HRE was thought as solution for many problems, not initially to produce them like a ford-assembly. (civ., wisedom, state-bureauc., and legitimate)
what`s worth saying: All roads (
Byzantium. It was more Roman than the HRE, which included large areas that were never in the ancient Roman empire.
metatron
11-01-2004, 19:31
As Voliaire on said: "Neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire."
Spartakus
11-01-2004, 19:52
Byzantium was Greek, true Romans never liked Greeks much. It's funny how the Greeks suddenly became the Roman Empire. Then again, the Romans may have liked the Germans even less.
After the fall of the Western Empire, the Eastern part was cut off from most contact with the West, and when contact was resumed it resulted in the Pope and the Patriarch excommunicating each other in 1054. Earlier attempts were made, most notably by Charlemagne, who was quite interested in the idea of a unified, Christian empire. However, the distance from Aachen to Constantinople was vast, not just in miles but culturally as well.
My point being; there was no "true" descendant of the old Empire. Byzantium was too Greek and oriental, the HRE too Germanic.
metatron
11-01-2004, 22:40
"You are not Romans, you are Lombards".
metatron
11-01-2004, 22:47
Byzantium was Greek, true Romans never liked Greeks much. It's funny how the Greeks suddenly became the Roman Empire. Then again, the Romans may have liked the Germans even less.Greek was the lingua franca of the learned elite in Rome. Many greek ideas and philosophies were filtered into the city.
After the fall of the Western Empire, the Eastern part was cut off from most contact with the West, and when contact was resumed it resulted in the Pope and the Patriarch excommunicating each other in 1054. Earlier attempts were made, most notably by Charlemagne, who was quite interested in the idea of a unified, Christian empire. However, the distance from Aachen to Constantinople was vast, not just in miles but culturally as well.Lies. They were in constant communication with each other. And Charles had his chance, but he ultimately turned down the Roman attempts at intermarriage.
Spartakus
11-02-2004, 00:48
Greek was the lingua franca of the learned elite in Rome.
The learned elite is hardly a representative group.
Lies. They were in constant communication with each other. And Charles had his chance, but he ultimately turned down the Roman attempts at intermarriage.
Constant communication, you say? Following the fall of the Western Empire in 476, literacy became near extinct in the West, surviving almost solely in the monasteries. The church was in crisis, papal power were in the hands of the Lombard aristocrats, and Europe was enveloped in incessant feuds. This is what we call the Dark Ages. Even with the Carolingians and the flickering light they represented, communication with the Eastern Roman Empire was the exception rather than the rule. However, if we move on to the High Middle Ages, this situation changes quite a lot.
And even if I were to say something incorrect it wouldn't be a lie, it would be a mistake. ~:handball:
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.