Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon?

[Forward Observer]

I finally rented this movie since the local video store had a bunch of copies which usually means that it is a popular hit movie.
I think I had also heard that it was consider for some awards are something.

Is there an award for the best bad Kung-fu movie. I just don't get it. Aside from some decent cinematography and higher production values it was a typcal stupid kung-fu movie. There was almost no plot, absolutely no motivation for what the main characters did, lots of over choreographed, gravity defying, impossible kung-fu fights where almost nobody gets hurt, and everybody flew around on invisible wires like Peter Pan. About the only slock kung-fu movie element that was missing was the typical out of sync voice dubbing. At least that usually adds some humor to this genre.

What was all the hubbub about. There's even a soda pop commercial parody of this movie. What am I missing here? When did this crap get to be great cinema.

Cheers

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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.



[This message has been edited by Forward Observer (edited 10-02-2001).]

[solypsist]

too bad you didn't like it. i guess everyone has their own tastes, but I had sort of hoped those with only negative things to say about things (in this case, a movie) would rather look for positive things and talk about those instead. too bad you chose to post a thread filled with your complaints instead of information or a question others might find interesting.
but hey, you can't like everything. i liked the movie, though.


[This message has been edited by solypsist (edited 10-02-2001).]

[Whitey]

I thought it was a good movie...if you don't like kung-fu movies then pray tell why are you complaining that you don't like this?

[jskirwin@yahoo.com]

FO
Crouching Tiger is to kung-fu flicks what Star Wars is to Saturday Matinee serials. If you didn't like the serials, you weren't going to like Star Wars. Ditto Tiger. It works best for those of us raised on Kung-Fu Theater on the USA Network with titles such as "He Heals and He Kills", know in our bones that Shaolin Monastery produces the best (and most polite) fighters, and who smile when we hear a bit of dialog such as "You dirty bastard! You killed my brother!" followed by one very enraged little bro beating the crap out of an entire bad-guy battalion.

Crouching Tiger reminded me of the way I felt when I saw Star Wars for the first time in 1978. I left the theater feeling light, believing in magic and knowing that Good eventually triumphs over Evil. But I guess it pushed all the right buttons for me and not for you.

In the end, big deal. It's only a movie...

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I take refuge in the Buddha.

[clink]

You can fly..you can fly...you can fly...Peter Pan?...Now the Four Musketeres have been sprinked with Tinker Bells magic fairy dust.
What next? A remake of Saving Private Ryan in never never land. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif
I agree FO

[Forward Observer]

Quote Originally posted by Whitey:
I thought it was a good movie...if you don't like kung-fu movies then pray tell why are you complaining that you don't like this?[/QUOTE]

I hope I can explain this without seeming confrontational. The reason I did not like this movie was not simply because it was a Kung-fu movie. Although I am not a big martial arts fan, I can still appreciate the skill and training involved and also can be
amazed or entertained by an expert demonstration. In fact the fight sequences from CTHD were probably the best part of the movie. What made the movie unsatisfactory was that it failed to support the combat sequences. It failed with a lack of plot, lack of story line, and lack of character motivation.

Imagine some financial backer and a producer sitting around in some Hong Kong office one day and you hear----Hey, let's get some big Asian stars and make a martial arts movie. Let's hire a good director. Let's really place emphasis on cinematography and production values. OK. Great: Whats the plot. Plot! We don't need no stinkin' plot. We'll make it up as we go along. Remember, we got big stars and martial arts. We'll have some good guys, and some bad guys and they will fight a lot, and there will be a love interest. OK. OK. What's their motivation for fighting? ER-Ah--Well somebody we don't know killed somebody we don't care about a long time ago. And our main characters can fight about it. Great!
Hey! I know, let's make all the fighters be able to fly. Why? It's cool. Didn't you like the Superman movie. Yeah. Ok. Flying is in. Is that it. Yeah. Boy this movie has got everything.

That may not be how this movie got made, but the end result sure points to it. Just one man's opinion, and you know what your proctologist says about opinions. I just wish I had spent my $2 rental on a higher quality movie. Something like "Police Academy 12" or "Porky's 4"

Cheers

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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.

[This message has been edited by Forward Observer (edited 10-03-2001).]

[Zen Blade]

What the heck you talking about mate?

plot/story line was pretty obvious.

do you want me to run it down for you...
THE following has spoilers.
the following also has misspellings.
Chow's character---master swordsman (man)
Michelle's character--- older woman
Zhang's character--- young girl from desert
Jade Fox--- bad woman


ok... Chow yo fat and Michelle Yo were in love, but never consumated their love because of the way of the sword and the fighting life. (I forget the name). Also, neither was willing to express their feelings during life out of fear and used the excuse of their jobs and responsibilities to cover up this fact.
-however, Chow's character was planning to retire and made indications of following up on Michelle Yo's character.... giving her his sword to give away and going to see her after he made a small detour of his own. (however, chaos ensues)

-meanwhile, Zhang ZiYi's character has been separated from her true love (desert bandit guy) and has since taken up as an under study with the Jade Fox in hopes of actually "living life" as opposed to being a small royal princess of sorts who is sub-servient to her husband and society... however, she is not "evil" like jade fox.
--part of her daring comes out as she steals Chow's sword for fun. However, this reveals the Jade Fox in the sense that something is wrong...

from here, the characters take flight and the chase ensues... each for their own motives, based upon the above which I wrote and other facts from pre-movie time; Jade Fox having killed Chow's master.
----thus, when Jade Fox reveals herself... all the plans of love are put on hold as each character goes off to fight their past demons and to find/define their future selves.

the important interaction, which you may not have understood is the Zhang ZiYi/Chow Yo Fat interaction.
Zhang's character is an AMAZINGLY talented young girl. A doubly rare thing. being a talented girl and being AMAZINGLY talented at that. Thus, Chow attempts to make her his pupil but instead just fosters her contempt until the end of his... life.

does this help? I thought it was all pretty obvious mate. Sorry that you don't like these sorts of stories.

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member

[Swoosh So]

LOL anyone ever seen mr Vampyre hop! hop! hop! great fun!!!!!!

What im saying is u cant knock a film for in keeping with its genre it was never going to be a bruce lee movie. Go watch Mr Vampire hehe lol i love that film!!

[This message has been edited by Swoosh So (edited 10-03-2001).]

[whyidie]

I'm with FO on this one. I think the amount of hype relative to the quality of the movie was waaaay overboard. Don't get me wrong, it was a good movie, good enough to have me karate chopping my girlfriend on the ride home, but I was a little suprised at the amount of "buzz" it generated. There were good things about the movie, but why focus on that when its much easier for me to be critical http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif Ahem, without further ado, let me now list my two biggest grievances:

1) The flying. Whats up with that ? The bamboo treetop scene would have been acceptable in a matinee movie in downtown San Francisco, but was a little embarassing to watch when one thinks of all the critical acclaim the movie recieved.

2) This is really what moved it down a couple of notches in my book: The love scene to kung-fu fighting scene ratio was all out of whack. There are laws regulating this and the makers of this particular movie apparently decided that they were ABOVE the law and didn't need to abide by the rules established in the Kung-Fu movie making guide. So what do we get in return ? At least half the movie was devoted to love scenes. At differing times there were at least 3 seperate love threads. Meanwhile how many fight scenes were there ? The answer ? A resounding not enough. Less smooching more kicking.

No the movie wasn't that bad, but it wasn't perfect. Of course one should keep in mind that I don't generally like movies so that could explain quite a bit.

[Forward Observer]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Zen_Blade:
[B]What the heck you talking about mate?

plot/story line was pretty obvious.

I'm sorry that you spent all that time outlining what you obviously think is a plot.
What you described IMHO might make a passable soap opera episode of "As the Wok Turns" or "All my Kung-Fu Children" but you would need to be up on the previous episodes or you would be lost.

For a big budget movie it was totally unstructured and weak. The best thing I could come away with was that this emotionally retarded young girl, who secretly wanted to be a great Kung fu fighter, managed to lie, steal, cheat, and basicly ruin or destroy everybody's life that that she came in contact with, and in the end she just gets to fly away. At least she should have had to pay damages for that tavern that she trashed. I know if I was the owner I would be P.O.'d.

I guess it just wasn't my type of movie. Sorry!



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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.

[Zen Blade]

Observer,

you definitely missed some stuff if you think that is all that happened.

but, what do you think is a good movie mate?

Also,

remember this was a foreign film.
i.e. it didn't purely follow US structure and custom/culture.
The flying scenes and fighting on bamboo was not meant to be "realistic" guys. It was the fantasy/mythology of the the movie/culture. The bamboo in particular was demonstrative of the DIFFERENCE IN CONTROL of the two fighters powers. Chow's character could move around and glide effortlessly about, but Zhang's character struggled with even the slightest task. ---SYMBOLISM guys. come on, you visit the ORG, I know you guys are intelligent!
: )

If you are going to dislike the movie because of its mythology, then...
One might say that all the movies that have God mentioned in them in some fashion are ridiculous or that a movie with historical inaccuracy is ridiculous. (some are, some aren't)

anyways, I respect your saying you didn't like the film, BUT don't say it didn't have a plot.
--I thought the hype was a bit overboard, but it wasn't as bad as MOST hollywood movies.

and btw, at the end of the movie, although NOT conclusive, she didn't "fly away", she committed suicide.--she jumped off the mountain to end her pain and in hopes that something better might come of it... at least, that is how I saw it.

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member

[Tachikaze]

Tachikaze's here to defend his favorite film in the last decade (draws his wobbly green sword).

I am a huge movie fan -- well I'm not huge, but love movies, and I hate formula commercial garbage. Since the '70s or earlier, films have really gone downhill. I don't go to the cinema much anymore.

Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon was a welcome breath of fresh air after so many Lethal Weapon 2s and Gladiators.

First of all, let's address the realism. In any action flick today, in fact all of them, a car is shot at, it hits a parked car, is launched flipping in the air, and explodes in a huge fireball. Cars don't do barrel rolls in the air when they sideswipe a parked car, and they don't explode in a 50-foot-diameter fireball unless someone puts a bomb in them. If cars can fly, so can Chinese warriors.

How many times have you seen a hero get lauched in the air by a nearby explosion? Have you stopped to think about what that would do to their eardrums?

Shall we talk about how real Terminator was? Let alone Star Wars?

Zenblade pretty much layed out the plot -- which is a love story, whyidie. The love story is not any more "soap opera" than Casablanca or any other great classic film.

What brings this film above the others is the subtlety and complexity of the characters, the best of which was the princess. Yes, she was a snotnosed brat, but a friend of mine put her into perspective. She said that her quirky mood shifts from charming and concerned to immature and selfish are what many women feel inside that they don't feel free to express. The fight scene in the tavern, where the princess boldly declares, "I am the invinceable sword priestess!" is an explosion of suppressed feminine angst and liberation.

Another great incident that separates this film from Hollywood tripe is the cup-catching sequence. In Hollywood, there would be music and maybe a slow-motion shot declaring "see the princess caught the cup!!! Shall we show a replay?" In CT/HD, the shot is very understated, quick, and silent. Probably half the audience missed it.

The end. The princess is committing suicide, but not literally. She is finally killing her immaturity; she is ending her childhood. She is becoming a woman worthy of the sword hero's place. And, rather than forcing her will on the moment, she is surrendering herself to fate (her survival through the fall is uncertain, based on the strength of her love for the bandit).

Watch it again. There's a lot more.

[This message has been edited by Tachikaze (edited 10-03-2001).]

[whyidie]

First off lets get one thing clear. I'm nitpicking http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif. I point out the flaws, no matter how small, of things that others feel are great in a feeble attempt to show I have some modicum of intelligence. I do this especially well with movies my girlfriend likes to watch.

It might be usefull if I also point out the movies that I have watched of my own free will. The headless horseman movie, willow something. Best of Show and Waiting for Guffman. The 9th Gate. Planet of the Apes. The Schwartzsomething movie where he fights the devil. The Bruce Willis movie where he doesn't get hurt.

With a couple of exceptions, I enjoyed those movies. I'm absolutely positive that if you cared to you could poke holes in the ones I enjoyed.

Now, did I enjoy CT/HD ? To a certain degree, yes I did. It had all the makings of a great movie. Now that Tachikaze has laid out some of the reasons why he felt the movie was above and beyond, it has become clearer to me why I wasn't as enthralled with the movie as others. I begin to understand my own lack of interest.

I suppose I'm a little averse to the love story movies, irregardless of whether its Roberts/Gere or Zhang/Fat. I knew there was a love theme to the movie, just didn't realize it would make up such a large portion of the film.

The Zhang character coming of age bit was out of my league as well. The "I am the invinceable sword priestess!" bit was something that I think has been repeated in countless classics such as "The Mighty Ducks" and the timeless "9 to 5" or even "Steel Magnolias". Not really, but it wasn't exactly subtle. Just the wrong film for the wrong guy I guess.


On the positive side the ending was indeed worthy. The good guys didn't end up living together in blissfull matrimony fighting crime.


I'll tell you what, in the coming months I will rent the film and watch it again, this time without expectations. Also, why don't the rest of you list some other movies that you've taken a liking to. If not in this thread, I think there is one in OT.

[Tachikaze]

I think the difference between the tavern scene and say, 9 to 5, was that in most films where the women flex their muscles, they are getting revenge for being wronged by chauvinistic males. Thelma and Louise jumps to mind, as well.

But I'm not into the "let's applaud for the female underdog overcoming the big bad male" type of scene. It's very cliché. I felt the scene in CT/HD was more timeless. It isn't necessarily against the male establishment. She is no feminist. It is a need many women feel within themselves to burst out and be, well, unfeminine once in a while. To exert suppressed power. She's getting something out of her system.

The same could be said for her being Chinese in a Chinese film. Her statement about being the sword priestess is bold and arrogant, two characteristics most Chinese suppress within themselves.

The scene is funny, too.

I think the love story aspect gives the film a nice running thread. I do like (good) love stories, but I think you can ignore the love stuff in CT/HD (except maybe in the desert), and enjoy the frosting (beautiful visuals and action). What saves the desert sequences to me is the character of the bandit and, again, the princess's boldness and arrogance.

I knew almost nothing about this film before I saw it (never saw TV previews). I only knew it was Chinese and starred Michelle Yeoh. I went in with no expectations. That probably helped me receive it in a positive light.

[Forward Observer]

I generally watch a movie to be entertained, and I am alway willing to suspend belief if find the story interesting, informative, or otherwise entertaining. I don't mind mythology or phantasy. I loved the "Princess Bride" and I thought "Big Trouble in Little China" was great fun and a real hoot. I think that in both of these movies you will find some of the most off the wall phantasies you can imagine and in the second movie mentioned there were even flying kung-ju fighters. Granted, they were both comedic in nature, but I think you need a little comedy or at least campyness to pull this sort of stuff off. The big thing difference here, for me, is that I liked the stories and the main characters in these two movies. I cheered for the good guys and booed the bad guys.

CTHD on the other hand totally underwhelmed me. I felt no empathy for or attraction to the characters. With the exception of the annimated young man who played the bandit most of the main players couldn't emote their way out of a movie popcorn sack. I couldn't even get upset at the villianess because she seemed more grumpy than evil. About the worst thing she did up until the end was kill one incidental character with an old 57 Cadilac hubcap, and even then it was in self defense. Since she was sort of a nannie, I guess her main goal was to be the evil queen of nannies.

The bottom line is that none of the characters appealed to me at all, and I felt that the story line was just too weak to make me care what happened to them. Up until the first fight scene there was no hint of phantasy. I seemed based in reality of a sort and then suddenly it's not. I found it a confusing counterpoint, and it just didn't work for me.

I also love movies. My first memory of a movie having an effect on me was in 1952 or 53. The robot in "The day the Earth Stood Still" so scared me that I ran out of the theater. I was 7 or 8 at the time. I also don't think movies are gradually declining in quality. Sometimes there are a lot more bad movies than good, but like everything else the industry has its cycles.

Computer generated effects are the big thing now, and just like any other cinematic tool they can enhance or detract from a movie. The limits of this new tool have barely been touched.

In the 49 years since I ran out of that first theater, I have probably seen more movies than most of the posters to this thread combined, and I still enjoy a good flick with a good yarn. For me CTHD just didn't qualify on either account.




[This message has been edited by Forward Observer (edited 10-05-2001).]

[Hirosito]

well here's what i think 1. of all the shots of the landscape have been fobbed of as quite nice and forgotten afterwards in this thread....my god they were beautiful and not only that but they bothered showing them...for a long time. like someone said with the cup it was natural no replay. if i was where those landscapes are i would look at them for ages this film let me do it. this was a very pensive film i think it was advertised in the wrong way many people thought it would be mindless kung fu stuff watched it and like someone said there were too many "love" scenes in it. for me this film stimulated a lot of philosophcal debate with my brother who i saw the film with. for me this wasn't a film you could watch and forget about like "die hard"

well that's it i'll shut up now

[Slyspy]

I liked it. Strong visuals, effective mood music and a suitable cast carried along in a well executed if rather unsurprising story. All with touches of humour and the occassional OTT martial arts display. Nice ending as well.


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"Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"

[Irving]

I think CTHD was definately THE best movie of the year.... and I think it did deserve the praise it did.... at least it was better then all the sh*t that plays like gladiator. if you want a no-plot movie where you just get to see people gettting massacred for 2 hours,, rent it by all means. and FO, if you don't like the dubbing, watch it subtitled.
some of the scenes were breath taking and the movie kind of got me interested in kung fu.... which i am now learning. (i'm still working on the flying... lol http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif ) i also have to agree with Zen on this one...very good ending... it is left open for interpretation. .. superb! well, FO if you can't appreciate that, go watch ALL the police academy movies... which suck

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[Maltz]

Being a Chinese myself, I think Crunching Tiger & Hidden Dragon quite a "special" Kung-Fu movie. Here are some of my feelings:

1. The scenes are wonderful. No.1 of such kind.

2. Major problems in dialogues. Actors / actress sound like they just read the script with little tone. Some very fake facial expression. My girl friend and I were actually laughing in the theater http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif

3. The plot is heavily dependent on the original novel, which is not popular compared to some of the masterpieces by other authors. So... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

4. The anti-gravity Kung-Fu has gone too far! Yack!

[Leon]

Great movie, IMO it deserved every Academy award it got and was robbed of a couple more. If you've seen Ang Lee's other movies - Sense and Sensibility, The Ice Storm, Ride With The Devil, his Father knows best trilogy, then you know what to expect. Ang takes the kung fu/fantasy genre and injects it with his own brand of film.

Forward Observer, et all. What format did you watch the movie in? Hopefully it wasn't the dubbed pan & scanned version. I saw the dubbed version and didn't like it at all. It somehow lost it's poetic feel through the translation. It wasn't the same movie anymore. Watching it in DVD widescreen w/original language and subtitles is the best viewing experience IMO.

[BakaGaijin]

Subtitles are always a necessity for foreign films, and doubly so for ones which are even slightly serious. Good acting involves both voice and body, and if the voice gets dubbed over by the sound engineer's buddies, the acting falls apart.

This is even true for Chinese, which is a tonal language and thus more restrictive for the actors. In fact, for that very reason, it is very important to hear the original voices. If they can distinguish themselves within that vocal framework, they must be something special, and all of the actors for Crouching Tiger got their starts in Hong Kong (so far as I know). Besides, Chinese is a beautiful language in its own way, unless it's being yelled at you by an angry old lady. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Also, I'm glad that someone else finds the tavern scene to be funny. I thought it was flippin' hilarious, and it still makes me smirk to think about it. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

I guess Crouching Tiger is really not a mass-appeal movie, though. Ostensibly, it's a kung fu action flick, but in reality its more of an epic. Yes, with a love story. That kind of thing won't necessarily float everyone's boat. Bottom line: I liked Shakespeare in Love, too, if you get my drift.

You know, it really makes me wretch when someone criticises a movie for not having a "plot". Plots are bunk. Totally useless. A plot is just a list of all the crap that happened in the movie. What makes or breaks a movie are the likeability of the characters and the setting. Obviously, what one person finds to be a likeable character will not necessarily be so to another person. Personally, I find Richard III to be a terribly engaging and charismatic character, but others would write him off as just another evil villain. It does seem, however, that we can all agree on Zhang Ziyi's desert lover being a really great character. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

By the way, the whole flying through the air thing is hardly an invention of The Matrix or Crouching Tiger. Chinese kung fu movies have been using such effects for years specifically because of the fantasy effect it gives. And, as I understand it, Chinese stage acting has been using wire work for centuries! The point is that it's not just a fad, it's a long tradition of weaving fantasy and mysticism into the stories.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Tachikaze]

Nice comments, Baka.

An interesting note on your mentioning the Chinese. Michelle Yeoh was brought up with English, and knows a little Cantonese. Her co-stars speak Mandarin and the film is in Mandarin. Yeoh had to learn the dialogue phonetically. In other words, she didn't understand a word Chow Yo Fat was saying! If some of the people who posted above found her lines a little stiff, maybe you were detecting that. However, I think she did a good job.

[Gothmog]

Being a Chinese and having read the novel that the film was supposed to based on long long long ago, I have to say:

CTHD sucks!

What really makes me sick is Zhang's charactor, Lady Yu (or Lady Jade depends on how you want to translate it).

She was supposed to be a talented, well-educated, well-mannered young lady who craves for love and freedom and was wise enough to do it without having caused too much trouble to her family and friends, but in this movie ...

Sigh, all I see is a bad-mouthed psycho path who knows nothing but killing around. In the end, she was nice enough to do us a big favor: on whim, she killed herself in a bungi-jump fashion.


[This message has been edited by Gothmog (edited 10-17-2001).]

[BakaGaijin]

But was it really on a whim?

I'll grant, though, that just about any translation of something from one medium to another is gonna suck, with the exception of Blade Runner. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? is downright ridiculous, but Blade Runner is one of the best sci fi films ever made.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Tachikaze]

I think there enough films about talented, well-educated, well-mannered young ladies.

[BakaGaijin]

And most of them are TERRIBLE! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Tachikaze]

Yeah, I thought the princess was a jerk, of course. That's what makes her character fun. She's a jerk in an innocent kind of way, like so many adolescents. It's refreshing to see a film where the beautiful leading lady is not so damned virtuous (like Melanie in Gone with the Wind yuk!).

Actually, she is torn between her appetites (desire to be free, desire to wield power, etc.) and her conscience driving her towards virtue.

Is this story from a Buddhist culture, or what?
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Hirosito]

whilst some might think the film was not very profound it all depends how you interpret the characters. this film does not spell it out for you like the hollywood movies where thinking is not required.

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Hirosito Mori

A warrior's wisdom is shown in the treating of his defeated opponent http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/owen/sid.gif

[Gothmog]

LOL, I second that.

Granted, typical holywood pictures require only pea sized brain.

CTHD requires ... no brain at all. For there isn't much to comprehand, the plot is just too silly to make any sense.

And that sissy lover of Lady Jade, oh, gosh, you guys are so lucky in that most of you just have to endure the subtitles instead of the real dialog ...

[Tachikaze]

Yes, don't ruin our blissful ignorance, Gothmog.

[Hirosito]

oh i guess gothmog doesn't agree with me

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Hirosito Mori

A warrior's wisdom is shown in the treating of his defeated opponent http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/owen/sid.gif

[BakaGaijin]

I guess it just depends on whether or not you like character-driven dramas. I do, which is why I can appreciate John Woo and movies like The Professional (which I saw for the first time last night -- awesome) on the level of something more than a vehicle for gunfights. Which isn't to say that I don't like movies which are just vehicles for gunfights (*cough*M:I-2*cough*).

I suppose you can sum it up by saying that Crouching Tiger was Shakespeare in Love with kung fu. Or something else ridiculous like that. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Leon]

I've seen references where Ang Lee and his partner James Schamus describe it as Sense And Sensibility with martial arts which seems a little more accurate to me. BTW, I could not get past the first 10 minutes of Shakespeare In Love before I had to turn it off. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Leon]

Oh, glad you liked The Professional. Guess where I got my name from! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Luc Besson is the man! I absolutely love everyone of his movies. Check them out if you haven't seen them yet.
http://us.imdb.com/Name?Besson,+Luc

[jomni]

Crouching Tiger is based on an ancient Chinese story. So everyone should put that into context because the plot of old Chinse stories are strange and tragic.

Like the story of the wife who's husband died while building the great wall. In her greif, she was able to make a portion of the wall collapse.

Or the girl who want to escape an arranged marriage and disguised herself as a boy and studied in a boy's school. She met a guy, fell in love. The guy thought that he's turning gay for liking his classmate (the girl). They got caught, the guy is put to death by the father. And in grief the girl dies and they become butterflies.

[Forward Observer]

Quote Originally posted by jomni:


Or the girl who want to escape an arranged marriage and disguised herself as a boy and studied in a boy's school. She met a guy, fell in love. The guy thought that he's turning gay for liking his classmate (the girl). They got caught, the guy is put to death by the father. And in grief the girl dies and they become butterflies.[/B][/QUOTE]

I think i saw that one. Wasn't it called Yentyl.

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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.

[solypsist]

just got the dvd.
it's a little lackluster without a screen the size of a panel truck to view it on, but the crispness and everything are still excellent.
the extra features aren't so hot, just some ang lee commentary and a making-of docu.
my suggestion, get Ran first, then get this one if you have spare change.

[Gothmog]

Quote Originally posted by Forward Observer:
I think i saw that one. Wasn't it called Yentyl.
[/QUOTE]

The actually name should be "Liang Shanbo and Zhu Yingtai", with Yingtai being the the girl's name and pronunced similar to "Yentyl" indeed.

However, I don't think there was a story of that sort that CTHD can be based on. Instead, it's "orginated" from a novel written by Wang.

[tienyi]

I study Western culture (not much knowledge) Asia culture and one of them is chinese culture, the reason why chinese people can fly is not because of copying films with Super Man. Actually if you read more clearly and find its history, all the super heroes that were invented from all the super heroes of Asian super heroes, Batman as a matter of fact was like a chinese and japanese ninja knowing martial arts. His actions are all realated to the chinese and japanese ninjas. If you see all the actions done by Batman then you know what I mean.

1. Using small batwings or bat boomerangs to fight, these are all part of the chinese and japanese martial weapons.

2. Keeping identity as secret. This is seen many times in chinese novels and japanese novels of martial arts fighters.

3. Flying unlike superman, its not call flying its actually using martial arts breathing exercises and power energies to make the body lighter and after leap up to the sky and jump to a long distance. This is why in China it is called Hing Gung.