XANADU and the Lord of the Rings. [Archive]

Zen Blade

11-25-2001, 09:39

Khan, that's like claiming that the jewish bible is the inspiration for all religion everywhere.

Different cultures can come up with the same sort of fairy tales on their own Khan. Stop being an ignorant Supremacist.

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member

Klen Sakurai

11-25-2001, 11:01

none the less, your sunglasses sure are cool, TemujinForever. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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"I wish I still had the power to save you." - William Jefferson Clinton

TemujinForever

11-25-2001, 13:29

JRR Tolkien was inspired by the legends of Xanadu. I don't blame him... look for yourself.

Mongolia IS middle earth.
http://www.doncroner.com/Mongolia/Olgii/43.html
http://homepage.mac.com/rolfpotts/road/mongolsky.jpg
http://www.flyfishingjacksonhole.com/images/travel/mongolian_countryside.jpg
http://www.doncroner.com/Mongolia/Olgii/17.html
http://www.doncroner.com/Mongolia/Olgii/57.html

I kneel in the direction of Xanadu

TemujinForever

11-25-2001, 13:35

Oh my God... its just so beautiful....
http://www.doncroner.com/Mongolia/Olgii/19.html
http://www.doncroner.com/Mongolia/Olgii/58.html
http://www.doncroner.com/Mongolia/Olgii/44.html

Mongolia is XANADU... XANADU is Middle Earth.

CEWest

11-25-2001, 15:03

Pretty, nice, although I didn't notice any elves, orcs, hobbits, wizards, dragons, dwarves, or dark riders... but, okay.

Khan7

11-25-2001, 15:09

You have problems my friend. Perhaps seek help? I dunno, get lost at any rate.

If Temujin had had a twisted mind like yours he wouldnt've lived past age 6.

Matt

TemujinForever

11-25-2001, 16:07

The Elves were mythological creatures that were derived from the mighty warriors of the Far East. Don't you see the connection? The Elves had sharp facial features and were also masters of the Bow.

Ring a bell? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

MONGOLIA = XANADU. XANADU = MIDDLE EARTH

Khan7

11-25-2001, 16:50

Elves also help Santa deliver toys to kids all around the world.. and in Middle-Earth they are anything but warlike.. Mongols = warlike.. hmm.. what the hell are you talking about??

Matt

Klen Sakurai

11-26-2001, 00:41

According to Tolkien (as you might find discussed in many a super exacto Tolkien freak forum or something), elves were also very tall, stealthy, and I don't remember reading about them charging into battle on horseback.

PS: If the sharp facial features mean they were suppossed to look Far-Eastern, then why aren't they inspired by Siam/Thailand instead of Mongolia? At least they have lots of forests in that area. TemujinForever, you bring amusement into my life! You're great.

[This message has been edited by Klen Sakurai (edited 11-25-2001).]

solypsist

11-26-2001, 01:36

Hmmm....nice pics. No elves, dwarves, or dragons in those mountains? Sounds like a Photoshop Challenge to me, LOL.

TemujinForever

11-26-2001, 02:58

The Elves were beautiful, elegant, and highly intelligent and they were fierce warriors with complete mastery of the bow. The Far East Asian warriors of China, Mongolia, etc, were the inspiration of the Elves.

TemujinForever

11-26-2001, 03:02

Khan7

11-26-2001, 03:28

Methinks this dude really doesn't believe what he's saying anyway. Let's let this thread die, no?

Matt

Catiline

11-26-2001, 04:11

THe basis of LOTR is Europe, Tolkein's expertise was the philology of AngloSaxon England. The Elvish languages are based in structure on Finnish and Welsh.

Whitey

11-26-2001, 04:24

don't tell me none of you can see the mines of Moria inside some of those mountain scapes?

can't anybody here imagine orcs coming from the mountains?

it may not be what tolkein was thinking of but it is sure pretty much like I imagine it, absoloutly beautiful landscape

BakaGaijin

11-26-2001, 09:29

Don't feed the troll. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

TemujinForever

11-26-2001, 12:24

MONGOLIA = XANADU . XANADU = MIDDLE EARTH

accept it.

BakaGaijin

11-26-2001, 14:45

Somebody call tech support. I think we've got a broken record.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

Klen Sakurai

11-26-2001, 15:27

*bows in the direction of the .. something something*

YES! Middle Earth is.... Xandadu or something! I accept it!

whoa duder, have you ever stopped to consider that propagating your views to the west might not be such a good idea?! they're gonna butcher your religion through idiotic misinterpetations, and stuff!! ahhhh... noo.

ie, I am content that America has not converted to Buddhism, as an admirer of Buddhism, because this country would prolly butcher Buddhism far beyond anything in Japan or or.. Sri Lanka.. heh. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

This has been a baseless rant of propaganda, brought to you by Xanadu and the Lord of the Rings.

One more post! YES!

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Argalarganar.

Klen Sakurai

11-26-2001, 15:28

isn't there an easier way to up your post count? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

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Argalarganar.

BakaGaijin

11-26-2001, 17:37

Yes. Spam.

As to America ruining Buddhism... The worst we could do is start charging people for temple visits. It's already pretty mucked up, as it is. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

Idaho

11-26-2001, 20:49

Er.. I think the elves, dwarves and trolls came from Norse mythology - that was all widespread in Europe long before the Mongol invasions.

BakaGaijin

11-26-2001, 23:22

You're forgetting the long-stored RACE MEMORY of the Nordics, going back to the time when they, too, were nomadic horsemen on the steppes of Mongolia, before they fled the pleasures of Xanadu, for God knows what reason, probably being inferior to the other more pure Mongolians, to their punishment in the icy north!

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

Ii Naomasa

11-27-2001, 02:13

Oh, what has become of my favorite wing of the Dojo? Probably doesn't help that I don't visit as often as I should. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

As Idaho and others have pointed out, Tolkien was inspired a lot by Norse mythology, which predated most European A.D. contact with Asian cultures. That's why the elves tend to be tall and of noble bearing, as opposed to the more impish forms you see in later European works. While Mongolia does have some very impressive vistas, the Scandanavian lands also have some very exotic and almost alien terrain. Even the photos my grandfather would bring back from his birthplace, the island of Åland, were breathtaking. And one would probably earn the wrath of the Professor's ghost for insinuating that the Shire's landscape (short the Hobbit-holes) wasn't inspired by pre-Industrial English villages, while Rohan is definitely inspired by the Anglo-Saxon culture of England.

Baka, I love your explanation. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Realistically speaking, while I suppose it is possible that the Norse descendants who worked their way east through what is now Russia may have had contact with the Mongols, I doubt few ever would have seen their lands and fewer of those would have been very influential in the Norse myth-making (in fact, one can see where the myths of these early Russians diverged from what is 'traditional Norse').

While I often find myself defending against Euro-centric beliefs, one cannot allow oneself to be caught up in any one culture to the point where one becomes blind to the others. There's a lot of unique and wonderful histories and cultures out there and to live focused on one would be like claiming the Internet is great, but only ever going to one web site...

TemujinForever

11-27-2001, 06:14

The Mongol Warlords, the Hunnic Warlords, they were the basis for the medieval interpretation of the Elves. Their sharp features, and their mastery of the bow were direction references to the FIERCE STEPPE WARLORDS OF THE FAR EAST.

I kneel in complete reverence to my Ancestors.

GLORY TO XANADU!

TemujinForever

11-27-2001, 06:21

Don't you wish the young Audrey Hepburn were a working actress today? Because of her Mongol blood, she looks absolutely perfect for the role of Arwen the elf princess.

Audrey Hepburn is a Mongol Elf named Arwen.

Red Peasant

11-27-2001, 07:20

Ii Naomasa is quite correct, Tolkein was inspired by Germanic legends, which includes Scandinavian and Archaic English, so look to Beowulf and Germanic mythology as exemplars for his world. The Mongols were possibly his inspiration for the rapacious Easterling hordes.

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"Gutta cavat lapidem non vi sed saepe cadendo"
--Ovid
(The drop hollows the stone not by force but by dripping often)

Grim

11-27-2001, 15:07

Hi Li Naomasa...it has been TOO long, I was beginning to think that you have dropped from the forum with FWSeal (btw where is he).

TF: I will try to clarify the LOtR vs Mongolian origin with you: there is an Wagner opera called "Die Ring of die Nibelung" (sp?) that you should look at before making the assumption that Tolkien took his idea from the mongolian hordes. It is an opera based on Norse Mythology that has dwarves, trolls, giants (oh my!) and a ring(!).
Does that ring any bells ???
-No ??!!??
-Thought so.

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"Je vous repondrai par la bouche de mes canons"
-Frontenac
(I will answer you with the blast of my canons)
-Trad. libre

Idaho

11-27-2001, 20:33

Quote Originally posted by TemujinForever:
Audrey Hepburn is a Mongol Elf named Arwen.[/QUOTE]

Yeah and TemujinForever is a big troll!

Catiline

11-28-2001, 06:58

LOL, very clever idaho, we'll make something of you yet...

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Oderint dum metuant

BakaGaijin

11-28-2001, 09:01

Idaho: But a MONGOLIAN troll. Or so he would like us to believe. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Naomasa: I was just trying to imagine what our friend Temujin's response might be. Don't take that theory too seriously. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

TemujinForever

11-28-2001, 10:47

Tolkien got so many of his ideas from the MONGOL EMPIRE and the legends of XANADU. The Elves the Easterlings, KHAMUL THE EASTERLING? Damn that sounds kinda like KHAN. as for his title EASTERLING... can't get any more obvious then that.

When you watch LOTR just imagine the MONGOL EMPIRE... just imagine. XANADU http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

TemujinForever

11-28-2001, 10:48

NAZGUL... MONGOL?

hmmmm http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Klen Sakurai

11-28-2001, 11:14

What?! You mean the Mongols were ancient Kings turned ghost slave warrior thingies for selling their souls to one of the great devils, and they had really cool daggers that could splinter once they hit someone's flesh and the splinter would crawl really really far all by itself toward the victim's heart and kill him and and they could turn invisible.. and they had scary red eyes, and sometimes some of them rode on weird dead flying dragon things?

Please teach me more of your awesome knowledge of history, TemujinForever!

edit: hmm, posting at all in these Temujin is the Greatest General in the World threads is starting to really feel like posting in the great Shameless... I'm starting to feel bad for not contributing useful posts. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
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Argalarganar.

[This message has been edited by Klen Sakurai (edited 11-28-2001).]

BakaGaijin

11-29-2001, 00:55

Xanadu is a pretty quirky song by Rush.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

solypsist

11-29-2001, 01:08

I think Aussie pop star Olivia Newton John made a movie called Xanadu. Back when she was attractive.

clink

11-29-2001, 02:20

http://www.rialian.com/elvsteut.htp (http://www.rialian.com/elvsteut.htm) here ya go,shut up all ready.

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TeuTonic

[This message has been edited by clink (edited 11-28-2001).]

TemujinForever

11-29-2001, 08:30

MONGOLIA = XANADU

XANADU = MIDDLE EARTH

For those that cannot see the obvious I pity you. There are so many references to the legends of Xanadu, and the Mongolians in Tolkiens work to ignore them is further evidence of the racist attitudes in this forum.

The Uruk-Hai = obviously based off some Eastern tribe of warriors. Heck even the names sounds far east asian.

Saruman = Atilla the Hun

The Easterlings = The Mongols

The Elves = references to the Finno Ugric peoples as well as to the FIERCE STEPPE WARLORDS OF THE EAST.

The truth shall set you free.

[This message has been edited by TemujinForever (edited 11-29-2001).]

[This message has been edited by TemujinForever (edited 11-29-2001).]

clink

11-29-2001, 08:38

Racist! what does this bloody discussion have at all to do with racism for christ sake. God I know why I hate Liberals so much.

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TeuTonic

TemujinForever

11-29-2001, 08:52

Okay lets agree to disagree. If you don't believe that certain parts of Tolkien's legends were inspired by the Steppe Warriors than thats fine. But you would be wrong http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Khan7

11-29-2001, 09:12

No, we won't agree to disagree. The only thing we could ever agree on is that you, TF, are a total moron who needs to go join the People's Army and stop bothering us. Think the Mongols are so awesome? Think China will soon rise as the heir to Mongol glory? Go be a part of it.

Thankfully for the rest of us, there is no internet in China. And if there was, they wouldn't let you come to this site. So you see, everyone would be better off.

Matt

TemujinForever

11-29-2001, 10:59

*TF, are a total moron*

Dank Matt, Sie moron.

TemujinForever

11-29-2001, 11:16

Matt I apologize for calling you a moron. it was in a haste of anger. Please forgive me.

In return Matt, please apologize to me for calling me a moron. Lets call it even friend.

Klen Sakurai

11-29-2001, 20:09

lol clink, you think TF comes off as liberal?

I'm pretty sure they have internet in China, Khan7.. sorta sure.. hmm.. well at least I've been ICQd by Chinese people at certain strange hours of the morning enough. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
People's Army would be good enough to shut up anyone anyway, good suggestion. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Argalarganar.

Zen Blade

11-29-2001, 22:35

OK,

Everyone calm down a bit...
first off,

Temujin did make racist comments Clink. He has before, and probably will again. When he says stuff like "it's a shame Europe is becoming mixed/interbread with Africans..." and... "oh well, that's what they get..." (these are paraphrases).

However, I will tolerate this as long as it is not directly pointed at a specific person here at the ORG. BUT, this means Temujin must accept that others (myself included) will consider him a racist and/or supremacist--(the latter he obviously is).

BUT, if people start calling each other names on a WIDE and indiscrimant level, then it just becomes flaming as opposed to disagreement.
SO, Khan7, Temujin apologized to you. It is up to you to decide whether or not to apologize, BUT regardless of your choice I hope we can all keep this relatively civil.

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member

Idaho

11-29-2001, 22:41

Quote Originally posted by clink:
Racist! what does this bloody discussion have at all to do with racism for christ sake. God I know why I hate Liberals so much.

[/QUOTE]

Liberals? what does this bloody discussion have at all to do with liberals for christ sake. God I know why I hate fascists so much.

Catiline

11-29-2001, 22:49

LOL, but i bet it's the first time in ages Tem has been called a liberal.

Zen i heartily agree. Let's try to be nice people, even if we don't agree with each other.

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Oderint dum metuant

clink

11-30-2001, 03:10

Fascists! allright lets spark up those ovens and burn us up some Jews shall we,or come on over to my place Idaho and we can dance around my front yard wilst we burn some crosses http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif

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TeuTonic

[This message has been edited by clink (edited 11-30-2001).]

Khan7

11-30-2001, 06:08

TF is loopy and it is debatable whether he has ever made an actual effort to become a part of the community. Therefore I owe him nothing, whatever the circumstances, and I am not obliged to spare him of any insult.

That said of course I won't go around flaming it up, that could get ridiculous, and this isn't my MO anyway (nor do I care enough). I just don't feel TF has warranted any real sort of protection.

Matt

Vanya

12-06-2001, 04:09

I just realized LOTR also stands for Lord of the Realm... LOL

Catiline

12-06-2001, 06:45

loss of temperate reasoning

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Oderint dum metuant

Khan7

12-06-2001, 09:41

Let's Obliterate Temujin's Rump

okok sorry, it was the best I could think of off the top of my head. *ducks* http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Matt

Grim

12-06-2001, 12:05

Lots Of Thread Redundancy

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"Je vous repondrai par la bouche de mes canons"
-Frontenac
(I will answer you with the blast of my canons)
-Trad. libre

Obake

12-08-2001, 00:42

MONGOLIA = XANADU
XANADU = MIDDLE EARTH

Therefore; since Middle Earth = Fantasy (not real, doesn't exist)

Mongolia = Xanadu = Middle Earth = Fantasy

we can ONLY come to the conclusion that

Mongolia = Fantasy (not real, doesn't exist)

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

Sorry Temujin, couldn't help it since you gave no references to back yourself up.

The pictures of your fantasy Mongolia are gorgeous (but where are they really from?).

You'll have to do better than play word association games to make your theory work however.

I am willing to consider that the Easterlings in Tolkien's work of fantasy may in fact have been inspired by the fantasy of the eastern steppe warriors of Mongolia, but to assume that every legend regarding "mythical" beings in European folk history (elves, dwarves and so on) derive from pre-historical contact with the imaginary steppe cultures is pushing it a bit.

I do however admire your pride in your fantasy-based cultural heritage even if your expression of it under this particular name is intended to be inflammatory.

I look forward to your next post which I'm fairly confident will continue to speak about your fantasy heritage and the glorious ideals of your fantasy culture and fantasy Khan.

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Obake

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

Khan7

12-08-2001, 13:04

Yes!! Mongolia = Fantasy!! LOL, how true!!

Matt

solypsist

12-09-2001, 04:33

well this forum seems to have turned into a total SPAMathon

Dark Phoenix

12-11-2001, 19:44

I have heard somewhere that the Orcs are meant to based off the east. So I think it could be quite reasonable to think that Mongols = Orcs.

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"DP is correct" - Shiro

Catiline

12-12-2001, 02:52

The Elves are clearly the Aztecs. Can't you see it, it's obvious.

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Oderint dum metuant

Jaguara

12-12-2001, 03:01

Yes, I think Catiline is on to something...

Long live the Mexica!!!

The Mexica are the GREATEST!!!

Elves kicked evil Mongol ass! Oops, I mean they kicked evil Orc Ass!!

Did you know that Salma Hayek is MExica?!? She is BEATIFUL! We have many more beautiful women!

All should know that Mexica women are the most beatiful women in the world and all should know that this makes the Mexica the greatest civilization in the world!

COUGH, COUGH, COUGH!!

Sorry to everyone, I seem to be suffering from a strange exotic disease...I think it is from Asia...the doctor called it TemujinFever!