Portugal and Japan in the XVIth century

[Mensageiro]

Here's my translation of the part in S.Francisco Xavier's 1549 letter, where he describes his meeting with the japanese civilization.
This is of course a rather amateurish traslation, but I hope I've kept minimally close to the spirit of the letter. I thank in advance any improvements or corrections you might offer to this translation http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif


Letter from Master P.e Francisco, written in Kangoshima, Japan, to the brothers of the Holy College of St. Paul of Goa, in the year of 1549, the 5th of November

(...)

I let you know what we have achieved in Japan from our experience of the country. First and foremost, the people we have met so far are by far the best we have discovered in our travels, and I believe that there will be no people among the Gentiles who can compare to the Japanese. It is a people of very good education, generally honest and not treacherous; men of wonderful honour, which they pride themselves on, more than any other thing. They are in general a frugal people, and both noblemen and peasants don't take poverty as an offence. They show one thing, which no Christian people I know would share, which is that they will pay the same respect both towards the most powerful and the most fallen of noblemen. They have always in great reverence their noblemen, no matter how poorly they may live, much more than the wealthiest of men. Under no condition, would a noble marry someone who didn't belong to another noble house, even if it gave him many riches. It'd be a loss of honour for them to marry someone of a lower caste. In short, they have in greater reverence their honour than their riches.

The Japanese have many rituals for their everyday life. They're extremely fond of weapons, and place much reliance on them. They always bring swords or daggers, all of them, noblemen and peasants, and children from their age of fourteen. They won't suffer any offence, nor any spiteful words. Those who are not noblemen pay great respect to the nobility; and the nobles pride themselves on serving the warlord, to which they are most loyal. It seems to me they do this, because if they behaved in any other way, they would lose their honour, and not because of any punishment the warlord might wreak on them, if they broke faith.

The Japanese are very temperate about their food, even though I can't say the same about their drinking; their wine is made from rice, since there are no grapes in this land. They never gamble, because it's held as a great dishonour, since those who gamble covet what they don't have, and therefore might be guilty of felony. They hardly use vulgar words, or swear, and when they swear, they invoke the Sun. Many people know how to read & write, which is a great means for them to learn quickly their prayers and knowledge of God.

It's a land where there are only few crimes in some provinces, because of the harsh laws they have for someone who is presumed to be guilty; nobody gets away with their lives, as they greatly abhor the vice of felony. They are people of extremely good will, very conversational, and eager to know. They are very fond of hearing about the ways of God, particularly after they have understood them. Of all the lands I have seen in my life, both Christian and Gentile, I have never seen such a honest people about their property. Most of them believe in wise ancestors. They were, as far as I know, philosophers who adored the Sun or the Moon. Even though there are many sins & vices among them, when they are taken to task, and shown that their deeds are evil, they are most amenable to reason. I find less sins in the secular people, who are more obedient to reason, than in those they have as clergyman, who are named as the Bonzos.

Two things have much bewildered me in this land. The first, the way the most capital sins are taken lightly. They have taken this from their ancestors, & their sinful ways. And it's known that vices, if let loose, will corrupt nature, and continuous indifference to evil deeds takes Man away from his perfectibility. The second, to see how the secular actually live more in grace than the Bonzos, which is so evident, that I wonder how can they be revered. I have spoken to some of their most wise people, mostly with one, whom everyone in this province holds in great veneration, for his knowledge, life & dignity, as well as for his age, which is 80 years, named Ningit, which means in Japanese "Heart of Truth". He is among them like an Archbishop, and if he lived up to his name, he would be one of the graced. But, in many conversations I held with him, I asked him whether our soul is immortal or if it dies with the body; to which he replied sometimes that yes, but as often that no; which I find very dubious.

(...)



[This message has been edited by Mensageiro (edited 11-07-2001).]

[BakaGaijin]

"The Japanese are very temperate about their food, even though I can't say the same about their drinking"

Hehe. =)

A very enlightening letter. Thanks for getting us this good translation, Mensag! It's interesting to see that the Portuguese held the Japanese people in such high esteem, and particularly how impressed they were by their humility and lack of greed. It would seem that such values are held in high esteem in all cultures, but rarely are such principles adhered to in practice.

The final paragraph shows the unfortunate bias of the missionary, though. It would seem a bit paradoxical to me to look down on those who haven't heard of God for not having heard of God. =) But, hey, that's fundamentalism for you.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Ronin]

Great work mensageiro!
The stranslation seems pretty much on the spot! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Já agora de que fonte e que retiraste esta carta? e que nunca a tinha visto antes!


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"yama yama tani tani"- Oda Nobunaga.
on every montain and in every valley!

[Mensageiro]

Ronin:

A única edição moderna da carta que conheço ao certo é a edição fac-símile da impressão de Évora em 1598 das Cartas que os Padres e os Irmãos da Sociedade de Jesus escreveram do Japão.... Foi uma edição de tiragem muito limitada, só se deve encontrar nas bibliotecas públicas. Agora não tenho a certeza, mas penso que em 1993 a Comissão dos Descobrimentos editou um panfleto com a carta...em todo o caso, vou ver se consigo "postar" um scan das páginas que traduzi (é uma pobre concorrência do tópico BBE http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif ).

BakaGaijin:

It's a shame that an otherwise very profitable meeting of these different civilizations would be marred by religious issues. The only excuse for S.Francisco Xavier is that his criticism of the Buddhist clergy comes very close to a native anti-Buddhist tradition in Japan, particularly strong throughout the XVI th century. Come to think of it, it reminds me of Mishima's descriptions in The Temple of the Golden Pavilion. Some researchers point out that the Jesuits may have been "prodded" by the daimyous, with tremendous stories about the buddhist monks' evil deeds, to break into some Buddhist strongholds. On the other hand, as shown in other letters, the anti-Buddhism of the Jesuits seems too deep to be only something "foisted on" the Jesuits http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif .


Today, I'm posting a chapter from Luís Froes' Treaty on the Contradiction of Manners between the Japanese and the Europeans..., written in 1585. It's slightly different in tone. There are others chapters of interest, but I thought this chapter could be a good kicking start. Here it is:

Chapter VII- On Japanese Weapons, defensive and offensive, and on War


1. We wear swords, the Japanese wear sabres.

2. Our hilts fit in perfectly with our hand; the Japanese are larger by one or even three spans.

3. We use a baldric for our swords; the Japanese, a little hook they have in their belts.

4. We use the sword in one side, the dagger in the other; the Japanese wear both of them on their left side.

5. Our daggers are short; theirs can be larger than half a Katana.

6. We hang our gloves by our swords; they hang a thread, with no use.

7. We usually fight with the point of the sword; the Japanese, never.

8. We give the warlords swords of the finest steel; in Japan, they offer wooden swords and baldrics made out of nuno.

9. We have nothing more than our swords in our scabbards; in Japan, they have also a congay with no use.

10. Our swords are very expensive when they are the finest and the newest; in Japan, new swords aren't worth anything, but they pay high prices for old ones.

11. We don't carry more than a sword and a dagger; the Japanese will sometimes carry two katana and a vakizasi to their belts.

12. Our knifes have usually wooden handles; the Japanese, handles made out of copper or any other metal.

13. We cut with our knifes always crosswise or from left to right; the Japanese always cut from top to bottom.

14. We make our rosaries and holy crosses with a lathe; the Japanese can make them as perfect with a knife only.

15. Most part of us will cut our nails with a small pair of scissors; the Japanese will use a knife.

16. The branches and leaves we take from trees to garland our gifts, the Japanese can make artificial ones with their congatana.

17. Our iron lances are long and large; theirs, short and narrow.

18. Our standards are plain and wooden-coloured; theirs, lacquered and sometimes gilded.

19. We have halberds; they have naginata, that cut as scythes.

20. We have bombards; they don't, but they have muskets.

21. We wear our powder-flasks crosswise; they wear them around their neck, as if it were a relic.

22. Our bows are wooden and average-sized; theirs, very large and made out of bamboo.

23. Our arrows are made out of wood; so are theirs, but out of bamboo.

24. Our archers are fully dressed when they fire their arrows; the Japanese have to undress part of their kimono to have one of their arms free.

25. Our archers fire their arrows perfectly silent; the Japanese fire with raucous cries.

26. We have bucklers and shields, gilt or leathern; the Japanese at best use a plank, plain as a door.

27. Our weapons are heavy; theirs, very light.

28. Our cuirasses are always made out of steel; theirs, made out of leathern or horn blades, sewn together with silk.

29. The plumes in our helmets are very beautiful, gray or white; the Japanese use the longest feathers from the cock's tail.

30. We use vizors; the Japanese, a half-demon visage over their face.

31. Our helmets are round; theirs, have ears and a neck made out of blades.

32. We wear a coat of mail under our armour; the Japanese are stark naked when they put on their armour.

33. Among us, if you are not armoured, you don't seem to be at war at all; in Japan, they show they are at war just by wearing a gorget.

34. We make war to the sound of flutes, drums, bugles; the Japanese only have some harsh-sounding horns.

35. Our standard-bearers carry in their hands the rectangular standard of their camp; in Japan, each soldier carries a standard on their back, held by a long bamboo pole.

36. We have sergeants, lieutenants, decurions, centurions; the Japanese, none of it.

37. We fight on horseback; the Japanese usually unhorse in order to fight.

38. Our kings & captains pay their soldiers; in Japan, everyone who goes to war must be prepared to pay food, drink or clothing for himself.

39. We fight ourselves to claim strongholds, villages, cities, and to loot their riches; the Japanese, to plunder rice, wheat or barley.

40. We use horses, camels, dromedaries to carry one's luggage; in Japan, the armies use peasants to carry their food and their clothes.

41. It's a capital sin among us to kill oneself; in Japan, warriors when hopeless, will open up their belly, and that's a sign of great honour.

42. We think of treason as rare & shameful; in Japan, it has become so ordinary they couldn't be less surprised about it.

43. The task of the hangman are among us held as obnoxious; in Japan, to kill someone by the law is something the warlords do usually and much to their credit.

44. The cambalas used in India by the Moors and the Gentiles as a fan, are here used for the manes of the warriors' helmets.

45. Our choppers are huge and even; theirs, lighter and finely curved.

46. We sharpen them with olive oil over a hard stone; they, with water over a soft stone.

47. Only barbers among us know how to shave; in Japan, everyone knows how to do it.

48. If we haven't been to a barber, we don't know how to shave ourselves; in Japan, many bonzos and secular people shave their own heads & faces.

49. Our soldiers put their linstocks to their left arm; in Japan, they put it to their right.

50. We use threads for our linstocks; they use bits of paper, or bamboo blades.

51. We cross swords without speaking; the Japanese, after each stroke, delivered or parried, cry raucously.

52. The Swiss soldiers support the musket with their shoulder; the Japanese put up the butt of the musket to their faces.

[BakaGaijin]

First, I really doubt that the Jesuits needed much help to hold any hate for the Buddhists. It's an unfortunate fact and one which I, as a Christian myself, find to be rather disappointing. It would be nice if Christianity had a history of understanding and coexistence, which are of course the teachings of Christ himself, but the reality is regrettably quite the opposite.

Anyway, much thanks again, Mensag. This new perspective on Japanese life is much appreciated, though I had trouble with a few points, mostly due to the more technical language of this description, which I assume came from a Portugese warrior of some variety. It should be interesting to read the other chapters of this book, as well. Perhaps I should investigate any English translations which may be in the local libraries.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Vile]

Thanks for the translation. I have read some parts of that before, but it was very nice to see the whole text.
The Chapter VII was even more interesting (for me, at least) to read.

One more notification about the text. Mr. Xavier may also have shown Japanese in very good light because of selfish reasons. It can easily be read from "between the lines" that Japanese are people well worth (what I would consider an expensive operation... Mr. Xavier would need some sponsorship from Vatican to continue his job) of spreading the holy word: i.e. rather civilized pagans that are very receptive to this new religion.

[Mensageiro]

Vile:

S.Francisco Xavier's sympathy with Japan was certainly helped by the fact that it was the only eastern country where he was actually welcomed. The Jesuit mission in Japan wasn't meant to be supported by the Vatican though (and when the Vatican began to be interested about Japan, collapse would follow soon), as it was to be supported by the portuguese crown and (after) by an interest in the chinese silk trade. But perhaps you might want to read the chapter I'm posting today about children. It really reads like "Holy Superiors, let us implement the teaching methods we have learnt in Japan" http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

BakaGaijin:

I should have avoided the most technical parts of Father Luís de Froes' description. Besides, he's also more inaccurate when he gets "technical". I think I will edit down that message.
Eventually, the relations between the Jesuits and the Buddhist clergy were improved; for twenty years, they were able to coexist peacefully. It's a shame that, after Oda Nobunaga's death, things fell out of balance and came back to point-0 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

Today, I'm posting two chapters.


Chapter 2 - On women, in their character and manners

1. In Europe, the supreme honour of women is their modesty and chastity.
In Japan, women don't have any idea of virginal purity, and to lose it is nothing to be ashamed of, nor it is considered an impediment to marriage.

2. In Europe, women do everything they can to be blonde and are very honoured by it.
In Japan, women abhor blonde and try to have their hair as dark as possible.

3. In Europe, women part their hair by the middle.
In Japan, women shave their front and don't part their hair.

(...)

15. In Europe, women shouldn't make their makeup show.
In Japan, the more a woman is conspicuously farded, the more elegant she is thought to be.

16. In Europe, women try by all means to cleanse their teeth ivory white.
In Japan, women try with irons and vinegar to make them as black as possible.

17. In Europe, women are fond of wearing jewels and necklaces.
In Japan, none of it. Only the converts will wear some relics or rosaries.

(...)

20. In Europe, a woman who went barefoot would be considered mad or shameless.
In Japan, women, of high and low condition, go barefoot very often.

(...)

29. In Europe, men will go in front and women will follow behind.
In Japan, men follow behind women.

30. In Europe, married couples share their goods.
In Japan, they are kept separate, and sometimes women lend money and become the usurer of their husbands.

31. In Europe, it's a sin and an infamy to repudiate one's wife.
In Japan, a man can repudiate his wife as he wishes, and she will not lose her honour or be disconsidered.

32. In Europe, given our corrupted nature, only men will repudiate their wives.
In Japan, women often repudiate their husbands.

33. In Europe, young girls and maidens are kept strictly at home.
In Japan, young girls will go on their own, to one or more places, without giving any notice to their parents.

34. In Europe, women can't leave their home without asking permission from their husband.
In Japan, women can go everywhere they want, without their husbands knowing it.

35. In Europe, relatives are very close to each other.
In Japan, not so much, and often they become estranged.

(...)

38. In Europe, even though there is abortion, it is not too frequent.
In Japan, it is so ordinary some women have made one twenty times.

39. In Europe, it is very rare that a woman would kill her child after (s)he is born.
In Japan, when women know they can't feed their children, they usually kill them by stamping their feet on the baby's head.

(...)


45. In Europe, women rarely know how to write.
In Japan, a woman who wouldn't know it would be immediately despised.

(...)

49. In Europe, there are pillions for women to ride.
In Japan, women ride the same way as men do.

50. In Europe, women use cushions for riding.
In Japan, only a small kerchief over the horse's saddle.

51. In Europe, women usually prepare meals.
In Japan, men do the cooking, and those of high condition are very proud of their skills.

52. In Europe, the tailors are men.
In Japan, they are women.

53. In Europe, men eat on high tables and women on low tables.
In Japan, it is the other way around.

54. In Europe, it is very uncomely for a woman to drink wine.
In Japan, it is very frequent, and it is not unusual during festivities to see them dead drunk.

55. In Europe, most women will eat fish and meat.
In Japan, women of high condition won't eat any meat, and most of them any fish either.

56. In Europe, women, if they are wearing a shawl, will cover themselves even more when they are talking to someone.
In Japan, women uncover their heads to talk to someone, as it is considered very rude to do otherwise.

(...)


Chapter 3- On children, their manners and their education

1. In Europe, we regularly cut our children's hair.
In Japan, parent let it grow until the age of fourteen.

2. In Europe, children are swaddled up in fine linen, leaving their hands locked.
In Japan, children are dressed in kimonos right after their birth, and they always keep their hands free.

3. In Europe, we have cradles to let children sleep and little cars (Froes means a sort of pram) to make them walk.
In Japan, none of it. Children have only the help of Nature.

4. In Europe, adult women usually carry children by their neck.
In Japan, very young girls usually carry babies on their back.

(...)

7. In Europe, it's usual to punish or to whip our children.
In Japan, it's very rare even to scold them.

8. In Europe, we learn how to read and to write with teachers.
In Japan, every child learns with the bonzos.

(...)

11. In Europe, children reach their puberty without knowing how to write a billet.
In Japan, ten-year olds seem like having fifty, for their judgement and manifest intelligence.

12. In Europe, a young man reaches twenty without hardly knowing how to fight with his sword.
In Japan, from the age of twelve or thirteen, children carry katanas or vakixazis.

13. In Europe, children show so little refinement and sense in their behaviour.
In Japan, their precocity of manners is a wonder to see.

14. In Europe, children are shy and timid when they are playacting.
In Japan, they are incredibly graceful, lively and vivacious.

15. In Europe, children are educated with many sweets and titbits, good food and fine clothes.
In Japan, they are reared half-naked, and without any caresses or sweet things.

16. In Europe, parents speak directly to their children.
In Japan, through go-betweens.

17. In Europe, children's godfathers are chosen when of their christening or of their holy communion.
In Japan, when they have their first sword or when they change names.

18. In Europe, children go out in company of their mothers.
In Japan, mothers rarely go out with their children, and even more so when they have grown up.

19. In Europe, we don't change our names after the holy communion.
In Japan, it is usual to change names five or six times in their lifetime.

20. In Europe, it is usual for children to pay visit to their closest relatives.
In Japan, only very seldom, and they remain as complete outsiders.

21. In Europe, children inherit after the death of their parents.
In Japan, parents give away their property to their children when they are still living.

(...)




[This message has been edited by Mensageiro (edited 11-08-2001).]

[BakaGaijin]

Quote 35. In Europe, relatives are very close to each other.
In Japan, not so much, and often they become estranged.[/QUOTE]

Considering the importance of family honour in Japan, this is strange to hear! Perhaps it was a custom of that time which didn't carry to this one, too, because all of the Japanese families in Hawaii (which technically includes my own, I suppose) stay in touch to some degree or another. However, perhaps the "estrangement" was meant merely in a relative sense, for I believe it was common in Europe at that time for many generations of a family to live in the same house.

Also, it was interesting to read about the great freedom of women in Japan, compared to Europe. Which is not to mention the customs regarding child care... tying young so that their arms are immobile! Why this did not cause many deformities among the Europeans is beyond me.

One final note: I believe the word "vakixazis" is rendered in Romaji (Japanese language with English characters) as "wakizashi".

At any rate, another fine translation which is much appreciated!

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Mensageiro]

In fact, Engelbert Jorissen (the researcher who rediscovered the treaty fifty years ago)mentions that the Sengoku Jidai was an exception in the history of the japanese family.

I am not sure, but I believe Okada Akio, the japanese translator of the treaty, also mentions that Froes is generally too optimistic about Japanese family life throughout the XVIth century.

And you're quite right about the "wakizashi". I was following Froes' transcription, and even his jesuit colleagues would mention that, even if a good translator, Froes was not that comfortable with Japanese.

[This message has been edited by Mensageiro (edited 11-09-2001).]

[Grim]

Very good and informative post Mensageiro, Remind me of the time when FWSeal-dono and Li Naomasa-dono were posting very long and nicely written historical posts about different timeframe of japan (where are you guys?). I think this book (if I can find it) will fit quite nicely in my library, for now I will print this significant piece of information.

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"Je vous repondrai par la bouche de mes canons"
-Frontenac
(I will answer you with the blast of my canons)
-Trad. libre

[Klen Sakurai]

Indeedy, following this post has been truly fascinating. I would love to see more stuff like this in the future.

[BakaGaijin]

I think I'll need to be spending more time at BU's and Boston's Public Libraries. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Mensageiro]

As far as I know, Luis de Froes' treaty has been published in Germany (BTW, I must correct a mistake: Franz Schutte was the researcher who rediscovered the treaty, Engelbert Jorissen the researcher who edited its last german edition), Japan and France (the most available edition right now). I believe it wasn't published in England or the US...not to mention it hasn't been even published in Portugal http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif .

Luis Froes wrote another interesting book, The History of Japan. But there are only a german and a japanese edition. Once again, no english/american or portuguese editions.

The only portuguese edition where you can find S.Francisco Xavier's letter is a fac-simile edition of a collection of jesuit letters, Cartas que os Padres e os Irmãos da Sociedade de Jesus escreveram do Japão..., as I had already told Ronin. Once again, it's more readily available in japanese or french editons (you can be surprised by the lack of portuguese editions, but that's Portugal for you). But I believe the Fordham University Press has published a selection of S. Francisco Xavier's letters.

[BakaGaijin]

Wow, that's so sad. You don't even have access to published copies of the original-language letters. =/

I know I'd be pretty annoyed if I were German and had to rely on French translations in order to read Erwin Rommel's writings. Heh.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Vile]

Quote Originally posted by Mensageiro:
Vile:
The Jesuit mission in Japan wasn't meant to be supported by the Vatican though (and when the Vatican began to be interested about Japan, collapse would follow soon), as it was to be supported by the portuguese crown and (after) by an interest in the chinese silk trade.[/QUOTE]

Ahh, thank you for the correction. I must admit I'm not that familiar with the Jesuit mission and the support behind it. Anyway I think that the claim I made may be true no matter the origin of the sponsorship. I don't mean that Mr. Xavier was lying about his feelings toward Japanese, but maybe he was exaggerating the "good" qualities and "forgetting" to mention the some of the "not-so-good" to make his work seem very much worthwhile of the money and time http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Couple of notations:

6. We hang our gloves by our swords; they hang a thread, with no use.

The thread (sageo) was sometimes used to tie the sleeves of kimono so they don't get in the way while fighting.
I beleieve that at least some practioners of Mugai ryû still use it for that purpose.

7. We usually fight with the point of the sword; the Japanese, never.

Hmmm.. maybe "never" is a bit of a overstatement, even though it is true that it is more common to cut with a Japanese sword. And (I'm not familiar with 16th century European swordmanship..) I'm under an impression the European swords were used mostly for stabbing. Anyway, there are several techniques in classical Japanese sword schools where stabbing is also used.
An interesting point (pun half intented) is that during the Mongol invasions there was a trend that the kissaki (the point) of swords was made longer. It has been speculated that the main reason for this was that the Mongol armour was more resilient against cutting than stabbing and the longer kissaki was better in stabbing.

Quote BakaGaijin wrote
I believe the word "vakixazis" is rendered in Romaji (Japanese language with English characters) as "wakizashi".
[/QUOTE]

The are several systems of translating kanji and kana to Latin characters (Latin characters, hence romanization in English or Rômaji in Japanese). The now most widely used Hepburn system was invented by James Curtis Hepburn, who moved to Japan in 1859. I doubt if there was any wide spread system of translitteration durin the mid-late 16th century.

Thank you again Mensageiro for the translations. Very interresting stuff indeed!

[This message has been edited by Vile (edited 11-10-2001).]

[BakaGaijin]

Vile: I understand the point about non-standard transliterations in the 16th century. But I think that, since this was a translation into English, the non-standard transliteration should be translated into standard modern transliteration, as well.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Mensageiro]

The Jesuit didn't develop any transliteration system for the Japanese alphabet. But João Rodrigues did conclude a grammar of the japanese language (very accurate, so it's said, which gave him the nickname of Tçuzzu, "the translator"), not to mention that they published the first Japanese-western languages dictionary (Portuguese-Latin-Japanese). The first editors of Froes' treaty kept to his original choices (and Froes has sometimes very odd vocabular choices), but the last editon (French) has adopted the Hepburn system.
I'm sorry that my bad translation could have misled you.

Vile:

Even though it's strange that, serving a religious order which named itself as "the soldiers of Jesus", Froes makes some mistakes in his observations of Sengoku Jidai warfare, the fact is that Froes was one of the few jesuita who had no military background. Still, it's very probable most of his military observations are taken from his colleagues (who knew better). Researchers say that Froes in only unreliable in (predictably) religious issues and in some military details (in some technical parts, like the functions of the katana).

I once attended a conference given by a japanese art historian, Mitsou Sakamoto, where he told us that Froes' treaty is remarkably exact concerning the details of everyday life. Perhaps he's making friends with the audience, but he told that Japanese historians have a true fascination for the period and he was surprised to see so few portuguese historians ready to cooperate with them for the research of the Sengoku Jidai or "the christian century" (1543-1639). For instance, there's only a japanese edition of the work where Froes describes the samurai embassy to Europe in 1582 (thankfully, including the portuguese original and japanese translation).

Of course, S. Francisco Xavier's shining example of missionary faith doen't mean that all the Jesuits had the same "benevolence". For instance, it's still under debate what has been the role of the missionaries in the destruction of the Kami Temple in the province of Bungo. All we know is that "Bartolomeu" (the christian name of the Daimyo of Omura) ordered it to be burnt, assuming that the temple was used as a rallying point for his enemies in the province of Hyuga. Eventually, this would be a turning point in the history of the relations between Christians and Buddhists in Japan.


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Um Oriente a oriente do Oriente- Fernando Pessoa

"An East to the East of the East"

[This message has been edited by Mensageiro (edited 12-16-2001).]

[BakaGaijin]

That in Latin, Mensag? Hah, I knew that would come in handy some day. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif The medieval manuscript lettering is too confusing for me, though. Heh.

Oh, and don't fret so much over the transliteration of "wakizashi". I was just being nit-picky. Most people don't even know what a wakizashi is, so I suppose "vakixazis" didn't confuse anyone more than they would have been already. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Ronin]

No it´s old style portuguese.
The rulls for the writen language have changed somewhat since then!LOL!
Obrigadão mensageiro isto ta mt fixe!


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"yama yama tani tani"- Oda Nobunaga.
on every montain and in every valley!

[BakaGaijin]

I see. Feh, it can be hard to tell sometimes with those Romance languages. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[CEWest]

It was published in English - at least one of Luis Frois' - there was a copy in my university library in Hawaii, although it was published a long time ago, sometime between the 50's and the 60's - I don't have the title or publisher though. It had a green fabric cover, though! I used it as a source for a military history research paper on Nobunaga which I was unfortunate enough to have to write http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
I just did a search for it at about 7 'out of print' online bookstores, and the best I could find was the latin edition of Luis Frois' book published in 1599 for about $7200. (8 volumes). A little more than I'd be willling to spend on a book I could hardly read, but that's just me.

[Mensageiro]

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

CEWest:

You must be referring to Frois' History of Japan. I remember in particular a famous episode where Frois describes a "flaming war" between "Lourenço", a convert Jesuit, and Nichijo, a Buddhist Hokke monk, while he and Oda Nobunaga were negotiating a new permission for missionary works. Frois was surprised to see them heaping insults on each other in the most serene attitude you can imagine http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
BTW, could you tell me the online bookstore where you saw it? I wouldn't mind offering it to my faculty.


Well, here is another selection from two more chapters of Frois' treaty:

Chapter 1- On men, their clothes & their character

1. The majority of europeans are tall and stout; the Japanese are usually short and slim.

2. The Europeans think big eyes are beautiful; the Japanese find them horrible, and think the most beautiful eyes have a fold on the side of the lacrimal gland.

3. It's usual among us to have blue eyes; there are very few blue-eyed men in Japan, and they are seen as an aberration.

4. Our noses are proeminent, and some of them aquiline; theirs are small, with narrow nostrils.

5. The majority of Europeans wear a thick beard; the majority of the Japanese have a sparse, irregular beard.

&. The honour and the elegance the Europeans place on their beard, the Japanese place on the bun they have in the nape of the neck.

7. We cut our hair short and think of a depilation as shameful; the Japanese depilate themselves with tweezers, in great suffering & pain.

8. There is among us quite a number of men and women who have freckles; but only few with the Japanese, even though they are clear-skinned.

9. It's rare among us to see men and women marked with the smallpox; in Japan, it's very usual, and many people are blind because of this disease.

10. Long nails are among us a sign of slovenliness and ill-breeding; the Japanese are very fond of them and the nobles, men and women, can have hands like hawks' claws.

11. We think it's as a disfigurement to have scars in our face; the Japanese place much honour on them and, when badly treated, they can be very unsightly.

On dressing:

12. Our clothes are the same for each of the four seasons of the year; the Japanese change them three times a year: nasu katabira, aki avaze, fuyu kimono.

13. We'd think ridiculous to wear dyed clothes; the Japanese normally wear them, but for the bonzos and the elderly.

14. Every year, we create new dresses or some new way of dressing; in Japan, people always dress the same.

(...)

17. Our drawers have an opening in front; the Japanese have an opening in both sides.

18. Our "imperial" breeches are made of silk festooned with gold; the Japanese clothes are in silk, but their drawers are made of cotton or nuno.

19. We don't have any men's clothes that women could wear; in Japan, the kimonos and the katabiras are worn regardless by men and women.

(...)

22. Our clothes are better than our undergarments; in Japan, the undergarments are better than one's clothes.

23. With us, clothes must be finer than their lining; in Japan, the dobuku of the warlords must have linings as better as possible than their clothes.

(...)

32. We salute ourselves by uncovering our heads; the Japanese, by taaking off their shoes.

33. We use two-edged swords; the Japanese swords are one-edged.

(...)

36. We try our swords on poles or animals; the Japanese try them on human carcasses.

37. We think that a walk is amusing, healthy and pleasant; the Japanese, not at all, and they are baffled we don't do it as a labour or as a penitence.

38. Our swords and precious goods are heavily decorated; theirs, don't have neither garnish nor decoration.

(...)

45. We spit everywhere, any time; the Japanese usually swallow their spit.

46. Our swords are to be held just by one hand; the Japanese have some very heavy swords which have to be held two-handedly.

(...)

55. In Europe, a man who would fan himself would be considered as effeminate; in Japan, it's a sign of misery and of a lower condition not to have a fan ready at their belt, or not to use it.

(...)

58. In Europe, a man who liked to see himself in a mirror would be considered as effeminate; in Japan, they dress themselves with a mirror in front of them.

(...)

61. In Europe, we wash our clothes with our hands; in Japan, with their feet.

(...)

65. In Europe, people will wash themselves away from the sight of anyone; in japan, men, women and bonzos go to public baths, or wash themselves at night in front of their homes.

(...)

73. In Europe, Summer or Winter, we would never wear a garment that would let see our skin; in Japan, their clothes are so flimsy you can see everything.

74. In Europe, we cut our cloaks with both sides even; in Japan, there's one span missing from the front of their kimonos.

75. In Europe, we'd never sew a black garment with white thread; in Japan, they don't see any inconvenience in this.

Chapter 14- General Observations

1. In Europe, we hold the fire-stone with our left hand while we light it with our right.
In Japan, the other way around.

2. In Europe, we get emotional when we lose our property or when our house is set fire.
In Japan, such things are taken very lightly.

3. In Europe, when there's a fire, everyone comes with buckets filled with water or demolishes the neighbouring houses.
In Japan, they climb onto the roofs of the neighbouring houses and try to fan the wind away.

4. In Europe, it's a serious offence to say someone is a liar.
In Japan, they laugh at it and shrug off their shoulders.

5. In Europe, we can't kill anyone without order or permission.
In Japan, they can kill anyone from their home.

6. In Europe, it's shocking to kill a man.
In Japan, they are shocked to see animals being killed, but they see men being killed quite casually.

(...)

13. In Europe, men, women, children are in fear of the night.
In Japan, adults and children don't have the slightest of fears.

14. In Europe, we fear and loathe taking snakes in our hands.
In Japan, they do it with great ease and without any fear; and they will sometimes eat snakes.

(...)

16. In Europe, we use gold and silver coins.
In Japan, they are taken into small bits whose value varies according to their weight.

17. In Europe, we use scales.
In Japan, they use dachins.

18. In Europe, copper pieces are full.
In Japan, they have a hole in the middle.

19. In Europe, copper pieces are usually accepted.
In Japan, only if they are old, and if they have a certain colour and a mark.

(...)

23. In Europe, we hunt wild pigs with lances, muskets or greyhounds.
In Japan, they pursuit them with great flourishes of the katana.

(...)

27. In Europe, to offer a great number of things is a sign of friendship.
In Japan, the less things are offered, the more they are honoured by the gift.

(...)

29. In Europe, we often pay visit to someone without having to offer any gift.
In Japan, those who pay visit to someone are expected to bring a gift.

30. In Europe, those gifts which were offered by our guests shouldn't be used in their presence.
In Japan, as a sign of friendliness, he that gives & he that receives ought to use them at once.

31. In Europe, we usually embrace someone who is parting from us or who has come from far-off lands.
In Japan, they don't know this custom, and laugh when they see us doing it.

32. In Europe, we play ball with our hands.
In Japan, with their feet.

33. In Europe, we throw the ball against a wall and let it bounce back.
In Japan, they throw the ball against the ground and let it bounce up.

(...)

35. In Europe, we discuss or amuse ourselves in the streets and in public places.
In Japan, only at home, and they don't do anything in the streets but to go where they have to.

(...)

58. In Europe, we cannot keep down our anger and our impatience.
In Japan, they are always strangely able to maintain their composure and their reserve.

(...)

62. European flutes are made of wood and open only in one end.
Japanese flutes are made of bamboo and open in both ends.

(...)

64. We love grapes and figs from Portugal.
The Japanese abhor figs, and aren't much fond of grapes.









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Um Oriente a oriente do Oriente- Fernando Pessoa

"An East to the East of the East"

[BakaGaijin]

Quote In Europe, we get emotional when we lose our property or when our house is set fire.
In Japan, such things are taken very lightly.[/QUOTE]

Hehe. Good to know I share my vehement apathy towards everything with the Japanese. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[CEWest]

I found the original latin edition here: http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookSearch the link won't copy so you'll have to insert 'luis frois' yourself and do the search.
I think you are right, I think it was 'the history of Japan' - I remember reading an interesting passage where he described Nobunaga's personality and physical appearance.
The college library was a goldmine for out of print books on japanese history. For some reason the 'golden age' of Japanese history research in English was the '50's and '60's, and that library had nearly all of them. One in particular I remember was a 'Sengoku biographical dictionary' of sorts with detailed biographies of somewhere around 50 Sengoku daimyo - and it wasn't written by Papinot. There are a lot of those books from the '60's that have been out of print for decades and nearly impossible to find. One i'd reccomend, and is still available, although at an inflated price due to scarcity is Paul Varley's 'The Onin War' - it is an excellent examination of the start of the Sengoku period.

[This message has been edited by CEWest (edited 11-17-2001).]

[Mensageiro]

Thanks, CEWest http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif It can be definitely a great gift to my faculty (the Faculty of Arts in Porto).

Meanwhile, I'm seeing where can I get a translation of Fernão Mendes Pinto's description (in his Travels) of how the arquebus was discovered by the Japanese. It'd be a good way to end up with a bang this series of portuguese writings about XVI th century Japan.

BTW, Ronin, have you already got The Mongol Invasion?

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Um Oriente a oriente do Oriente- Fernando Pessoa

"An East to the East of the East"

[Mensageiro]

I'm finally bringing to you the translation of the chapter where Fernão Mendes Pinto describes "how firearms came to Japan". This is a professional translation, so I hope you'll enjoy it more than my translations http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif .
In spite of the fantastic reputation of Mendes Pinto's Travels, it's generally accepted that this story is true to reality: if Mendes Pinto wasn't one of the three portuguese who first landed in Japan, he must have copied the story from one of the "real" three. The story is also confirmed by the japanese XVIIth century treaty on firearms, the Teppo-Ki.

When Mendes Pinto writes "nautoquim", he is referring to naotoki (a princely title); and when he writes "chenchicogim", read Tenjiku-Jin, "man from India". A "tael" is a silver coin.


Chapter 134: How Firearms Came to Japan

In keeping with the nautaquim's instructions, early the next day, the Chinese necodá unloaded his cargo and transferred it to a suitable warehouse assigned to him for that purpose, and within three hours it was all gone. It sold so fast, not only because there was very little to begin with, but also because there was a great scarcity of that kind of merchandise in the country. The pirate made so much money on these transactions that in the end he was more than compensated for the loss of the 26 ships confiscated by the Chinese authorities, for they readily accepted the merchandise at the prices he quoted. As a result, from what he confided to us, on just that small supply of goods, which had cost him twenty-five hundred taels, he made a profit of over thirty thousand.

As for us three portuguese, since we did not have any business to attend to, we passed the time away hunting, fishing, and visiting the very rich and majestic temples to their gods, where we were most cordially received by the bonzes, or priests, for the Japanese are by nature a very friendly and sociable people. It was during this time, when we had nothing to do, that one of the three men in our group, a fellow by the name of Diogo Zeimoto, who was very fond of shooting, would occasionally go off by himself with his musket, which he knew how to handle quite expertly. One day he came upon a swamp inhabited by an enormous number of birds of all different varieties, and while he was there he shot down about twenty-six wild ducks.

The Japanese had never seen firearms like that before and they promptly reported it to the nautaquim, who at the time happened to be watching the running of some horses that had just been shipped to him from the outside. Astounded by the news, he immediately sent for Zeimoto, who came straight from the swamp where he had been hunting. As he watched him coming towards him with the muskt slung over his shoulder and his two Chinese helpers loaded down with game, he could hardly contain his excitement. From the way he carried on, it was apparent that he was simply delighted by it all, for they had never before seen target shooting wwith firearms in Japan, and since none of them knew the secret of the gunpowder and could not understand how it worked, and they attributed it to some sort of witchcraft.

As for Zeimoto, when he saw them all staring at him in amazement, and the nautoquim especially looking so pleased, he fired three shots in the air, bringing down two doves and a seahawk right at their feet. But there is no point going into all the details because the whole incident was truly incredible. Suffice it to say that the nautoquim made Zeimoto climb up behind him on his horse and rode off with him, accompanied by many people, including four footmen carrying iron-tipped staffs who shouted to the crowds, which by then were increasing in great numbers.

"Hear ye! Hear ye! It is the will and the command of the nautoquim, prince of this island of Tanegashima and lord of our heads," they proclaimed, "that you and all the inhabitants of this land bounded by the two seas, honor and revere this chengicogim from the end of the world, for as of this day he has made him his kinsman, alike to the facharões who sit beside him. Whosoever does not willingly obey this command shall lose his head!" And the people received it all with a tumultuous cry: "So shall it be forevermore!".

When Zeimoto arrived at the outer courtyard of the palace in the midst of all this ostentatious display, the nautaquim dismounted and took him by the hand, leaving the two of us a good distance behind. Keeping him by his side all the while, he led him into one of the buildings where he seated him at his own table, and then crowned it with the highest honor of all by inviting him to spend the night there. Thereafter he always showed great favor to him, and to us too, to some extent, out of consideration for him.

Before long Diogo Zeimoto realized he could not find a better way to repay the nautaquim, if only in part, for all the honors he had received, and that nothing would please him more than having the musket, so he offered it to him on a day when he had returned from the hunt with an especially large quantity of pigeons and doves. He accepted it as though it were a priceless gift and assured him that it meant more to him than all the wealth of China. In return, he gave him a thousand silver taels and begged him to teach him how to make the powder, for without it, the musket was just a useless scrap of metal, which Zeimoto promised to do, and he kept his word. From then on, the nautaquim's chief pleasure and pastime was in exercising with this musket. When his people saw there was nothing that gave him greater joy, they decided to have some new ones made on the model of that musket, and they lost no time going about it.

As a result, the insatiable curiosity and demand for this musket increased from that moment on to such a remarkable degree that, when we left the island some five and a half months later, there was already more than six hundred of them around. And afterwards, the last time I was in Japan, when the viceroy Dom Afonso de Noronha sent me there with a gift for the king of Bungo in the year 1556, the Japanese assured me that in the city of Fucheo (my note:the city of Funai), which is the capital of the kingdom of Bungo, there were more than thirty thousand. When I expressed surprise, for it seemed incredible to me that they could have increased their production at such a rapid rate, some merchants told me -and they were noble, respectable men, who assured me in no uncertain terms- that in all the islands of Japan there were more than 300000 muskets, and that they alone, in six voyages to the Ryukyus, had transported 25000 to be sold there.

So that all because of the single musket that the well-intentioned Zeimoto presented to the nautoquim as a token of friendship, to repay him in part for all the honors and favors bestowed on him, as I mentioned before, the land become so flooded with them that today there is not a village or hamlet, no matter how small, where they do not produce a hundred or more, and in the important cities and towns they speak of them in nothing less than the thousands. From this alone, it is easy to understand what kind of people they are and how naturally they take to military exercise, which they enjoy more than any other nation that is known to date.

(to be continued)

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Um Oriente a oriente do Oriente- Fernando Pessoa

"An East to the East of the East"

[Ronin]

Very cool mensageiro!
I still haven´t been able to find the Mongol invasion over here!
if you find out of some place that has it please let me know!
I have been kinda busy with university ( i study computer science at the The lisbon faculty of cience) so i havent´t been able to really look for it!


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"yama yama tani tani"- Oda Nobunaga.
on every montain and in every valley!

[Mensageiro]

I was told that you could find the expansion at FNAC. But I'm not sure - their online store doesn't sell it, and I hate them so badly I have yet to enter in one of their "traditional" stores (well, I don't hate them, but I don't like them anyway http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif ).

And of course I wish you great luck for your computer science degree http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Um Oriente a oriente do Oriente- Fernando Pessoa

"An East to the East of the East"

[Ronin]

I´ll have to stop by at FNAC one of these days then!
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif


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"yama yama tani tani"- Oda Nobunaga.
on every montain and in every valley!

[Vanya]

I lost myself somewhere around here... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

[Mensageiro]

I'm posting now the last "instalment" of this series of portuguese texts about Japan. It's the chapter from Mendes Pinto's Travels which immediately precedes the other I had already transcribed. It describes how the Portuguese first arrived in Japan and some amusing details about their reception. Those who know about the national character will say: we haven't changed a bit http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Chapter 133: The Inquisitive Prince of Tanegashima

Hardly two hours had elapsed since we anchored in this bay of Miaygima when the nautoquim, prince of the island of Tanegashima, accompanied by many merchants and noblemen, came out to our junk, laden with a large number of chests full of silver which they brought with them to trade. After the usual courtesies on both sides had been exchanged and he had been given assurance that it was safe to approach, he immediately drew up alongside. The moment he saw us three Portuguese on board he wanted to know what kind of people we were, for he could tell from looking at our faces that we were not Chinese.

The pirate captain told him that we were from a country named Malacca, to which we had come many years ago from another by the name of Portugal, whose king, as he had heard us say several times, lived far away, at the end of the huge expanse of the world. Unable to hide his amazement, the nautaquim, turning to the men in his party, exclaimed: "May heaven strike me dead if those men are not the Chenchicogis of whom it is written in our scrolls that by flying over the waters they have conquered the inhabitants of the coastal regions where God created all the wealth of the world! If so, it will be our good fortune if they have come to our country in the name of friendship!" Then he called to his side a Ryukyu woman who had been acting as interpreter in his conversation with the Chinese master of the junk. "Ask the necoda", he said to her, "where he found these men and why he brought them here to our land of Japan". The captain replied that he could vouch for the fact that we were perfectly respectable merchants, and that he had found us shipwrecked in Lampacau where, out of charity, he had taken us on board, as was his custom whenever he came across anyone in similar circumstances, so that God in turn might protect him from the sudden disasters that ride the waves and strike the mariner down at sea.

Apparently, the pirate's answer was so convincing that the nautaquim immediately boarded the junk, selecting only a small group to follow him, for there were too many for all of them to join in. After he had looked the junk over from stem to stern, examining every nook and cranny, he sat down on a chair near the quarterdeck and interrogated us about certain things in particular he wanted to know, to which we replied, telling him only what we thought he wanted to hear, and he was extremely pleased. He talked to us for a long time, and from the questions he asked we could tell that he was a curious person who was eager to learn about new things. He said good-by to us and the Chinese necoda, taking little notice of anyone else there, and saying as he left, "Come see me at my house tomorrow and bring me a wonderful presemt of information about the great wide world you have traveled, the countries you have seen and their names, for I can assure you that you have nothing else here I would purchase with greater pleasure". And so saying he returned to shore.

At daybreak the next morning he sent a large prow out to the junk loaded with fresh food for us, including grapes, pears, melons and all the different vegetables they grow in Japan, at the sight of which we offered many praises and thanks to our Lord. In return for the fresh food the necoda of the junk sent him some expensive art objects and bric-a-brac from China. He also sent word with the messenger that, as soon as the junk was safely anchored and made secure against the weather, he would visit him ashore and bring him samples of the merchandise he had for sale. Early the next morning he went ashore, taking all three of us with him along with ten or twelve of the most decent and respectable-looking Chinese in the ship's company whom he wanted there in order to make a good impression at this first interview, which is when these people usually show themselves off in a most pretentious manner.

When he arrived at the nautaquim's house he welcomed us all very cordially, and the necoda gave him a fine present, after which he showed him samples of everything he had for sale. He was satisfied with what he saw and immediately sent for the principal local merchants with whom prices were discussed. Once prices were agreed upon it was decided to have the goods brought ashore the next day to a building he had set aside for the use of the necoda, where he and his people could stay until they were ready to return to China.

After these matters were settled, the nautaquim resumed his conversations with us. he asked us about many things, in great detail, and in our answers we were less concerned with the real truth than we were with trying to please him. But this was the case only in certain instances when it was necessary to help ourselves out with a few little falsehoods so as not to undo the high regard he had for this country of ours. The first was his telling us that the Chinese and the Ryukyu had told him that Portugal possessed more territory and wealth than the entire empire of China, which we granted him. The second was that they had also assured him that our king had subjugated most of the world by means of maritime conquests, which we also said was true. The third was that our king was so rich in gold and silver that he had more than two thousand storehouses filled from floor to ceiling. To this we replied that, as to the number of storehouses, we could not be sure, because the country and the kingdom in themselves were so vast and contained so many treasures and peoples that it was impossible for anyone to be able to tell him the exact number with any degree of certainty.

He detained us for more than two hours with these questions and others like them and concluded by saying to his followers, "One thing is certain, that we know of no king on earth today who can consider himself fortunate unless he is a vassal of a monarch as great as emperor of these people". After dismissing the necoda and his entire company, he asked us to consent to spending the night ashore with him because he could not get his fill of asking us many things about the world, which he was very fond of doing, and that in the morning he would arrange to house us where we would be close to him, since it was the best part of town.

We readily agreed and he had us put up with a very wealthy merchant who wined and dined us most generously, not only that night but on all the twelve other nights we stayed with him.





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Um Oriente a oriente do Oriente- Fernando Pessoa

"An East to the East of the East"