Wardogs strategy

[Maltz]

Hi there,

I am not at all a good doggie master, so mostly I only carry one or two unit of wardogs with me, and most of the times they weren't really useful anyways.

What I usually do is, I set loose the doggies before my main charge, so the dogs are kind of like free meat pads (if I pull back the masters). However, they don't really kill a lot this way, and I rarely see them causing an morale devastation. They also takes up space so my army has less engagement line to the target, thus killing/routing them slower.

I also found wardogs with limited value after its initial target has been routed. They just keep chasing the routers of their original victim all the way out of the field. Is it possible to ask the doggies to charge a second unit? ~:cool: I know it is impossible to bring them back to the "leashed" state.

Beast masters, please provide your valuable tips and experiences. ~:)

p.s.
Last night I faced some Scythian horde on the field. Soon after the battle starts, the chosen archers (long-ranged? forgot) marched forward, obviously trying to shoot me. I then released my wardogs directly towards them, followed by an all-out HA + melee cavalry rush on two flanks.

To my surprise these chosen archers routed in a few seconds! I have never seen AI rout in a few seconds during a 1 vs. 1. I wonder whether wardogs are always a deadly weapon against foot missle troops because "they can only aim for the keepers"...? :)

[Shottie]

Im not a doggie master either, but all I do is send my dogs at the center of the line, or the flanks, or a weak spot. Sometimes I will send 2-3 units to one side of the enemy formation, then send my Calvary to the other side, while archers pour fire into the center, its usually works lol :charge:

[drone]

Free meat pads, good one! I find them useful for absorbing charges from cavalry, especially for protecting skirmishing foot archers. I think I saw a post that they can pin chariots (possible bug), haven't tried it though. Once they pin a unit, you can feel free to shoot into the melee (pull back the handlers though). They are disposable, although this may offend (R)SPCA types...

If they rout a unit, they will chase it until it is dead, or they will chase them off the map. If the routed unit dies to a man, they seem to head for the nearest enemy unit and attack. If I have a spare light horse unit, I usually send them to finish the routing unit off before they hit the red line, since the dogs are a little slow. Killing off that unit sends the dogs off to the next enemy. I think they are gone once they go past the red line, but they do keep killing routers all the way to the map edge, I don't think any other unit does this.

I'll have to try pinning chariots tonight, and maybe test the archer range issue as well. If they can pin chariots, I think it raises the cheese factor some. Let slip the dogs of war! :whip:

[drone]

After doing a bunch of tests, here is what I found:

The dogs are under control until they enter the charge animation. The handlers and dogs seem to start this animation at the same time, once this has begun, the dogs are out of your control. This is a good time to pull the handlers back behind your lines. Once the dogs are loose, it doesn't look like they will rout, even if the handlers do the dogs will continue to fight.

If the enemy charges your wardog unit, they will go after the handlers. It seems that cavalry can drive through the dogs and get to the handlers, but infantry get pinned by the dogs. If charged by cav, get the handlers behind a decent unit for survival.

Archers do not shoot the dogs, all arrows go towards the handlers. Keep the handlers back and it's not a problem. The archers will melee the dogs, which leaves them open to a charge from other units. In my simple combats, horse archers would break through the dogs and chase the handlers, if you can run the handlers behind a decent infantry unit, they should be safe, and the dogs will come in behind them once they are engaged.

Chariot units seemed to enjoy chasing the dogs around. They will go for the handlers, and are not pinned by the dogs at all. It did seem to take them a while to kill the whole unit, this might be because the dogs don't rout. Not sure what would happen in a large battle (target-rich environment), maybe the chariots will pick other targets instead of focusing on the handlers.

[pyrocryo]

Usually I use my dogs when I open a cavalry battles. The dogs are effective enough to disrupt enemy cavalry long enough for my cavalry to adjust their line of attack and maximize the charge bonus. After that, if lucky, my dogs will nip enemy infantry and again my cavalry can reform and ready to charge.

[Ziu]

Dogs are great for halting a charging enemy unit. Infantry or cavalry.
Any unit that you want to keep out of the main fray are a good target for dogs.
Keep an eye on the handlers though they sometimes run off to fight with the dogs even though you have told them to get back behind the front.

[metatron]

I've used them with mixed success in disrupting enemy lines, but this has to be timed oh so right.

[the_rydster]

I mentioned this in a previous post.

Wardogs are great from breaking pinned enemy infanty especially in the earlier periods. I will set them up behind my from line and once both front lines are fully engaged I will set all the dogs I have on them. This will normally cause them to rout.

Wardogs are also good for attacking enemy cavlery which are in a melee with your infantry. You will see horses go down before these wild beast in the animation I kid you not!

They are good at taking care or archers which may be a little out or range of your infantry.

Useless against elephants though ! ~:) ~:) ~:)

[Shadow]

I usually use the dogs as shock pad absorbing the cavalry charge from the enemy after which my infantry will engage and destroy them. ~D

Or to hold my charging target in place and softening them for my Max charge impact. :charge:

[TEP]

Keep an eye on the handlers though they sometimes run off to fight with the dogs even though you have told them to get back behind the front.

I have noticed this - very annoying - it cost me a Wardogs unit last night. :furious3:

I think what happens is that when the enemy unit retreats or breaks, the Wardogs unit goes into pursuit mode, and the handlers rejoin the fight.

I haven't investigated this, though. Anyone?

[Zorn]

Wardogs are great from breaking pinned enemy infanty especially in the earlier periods. I will set them up behind my from line and once both front lines are fully engaged I will set all the dogs I have on them. This will normally cause them to rout.

That`s just how I do it, too.
Wardogs can pass through your own units easily, so they are perfect reserves. They can`t handle units very well on theit own, but if they attack a allready engaged unit they are devastating.
I keep them behind my lines and unleash them at the most crucial fights.Their added weight almost allway wins me that fight in seconds. While the dogs happily chase the enemys away, my infantery is in a perfect position to flank the fight next to it.
Of course, this works best in fights with lost of infantery on both sides.

[eadingas]

Modding hint: if you change the wardogs to missile unit, they get a 'skirmish' ability (you have to switch their primary weapon to missile, too. I recommend slings). This means that the handlers will retreat themselves once the dogs are launched, and will keep out of harms way for the rest of the battle.

[Maltz]

Thanks for all the inputs. So basically there seems to be 3 major usages:

(1) Offensive canon fodder - as a free meat pad. Send them as the first wave of impact to reduce casaulties.

(2) Offensive shock reserve - as a penetrating reinforcement to rout the enemy as fast as posible.

(3) Defensive cavalry charge sponge - as the absorber of an enemy cavalry charge.

All of them seems reasonable to me. I use to remember that people think wardog to be way too powerful, but perhaps due to my inability to use them well, I really don't find wardog "wargods" - perhaps only refers to the divine ability of full regeneration after every battle?

Also, I wonder whether the "fear factor" can accumulate if we have mulitple units of dogs charging the same target...? But if they rout, the dogs will chase them all the way out of the field, which is also a big waste.

[drone]

They are nice in the early game, and do well against rebels and barbarian types. If you don't like bribing rebels, you can keep a few in your garrison (cheap upkeep) and use them to pummel the rebels that keep popping up. Haven't tried using them as town garrison just for the purpose of maintaining public order. Does anyone know if the dogs (not handlers) count as troops for this purpose?

I haven't seen any path issues attacking cities, maybe since the dogs themselves don't have a formation this helps (or maybe I don't pay enough attention to them once they get going).

[drone]

Follow up question to my previous one about garrisoned wardogs and public order: When recruiting a wardog unit, how much population is needed to build the unit, and how many are taken from the town? You would think you would only lose the handlers from the city pop. If this is so, wardogs units would have very little effect on small pop towns. This could be handy if you are exterminating towns, but need some new basic units at the front.
And if the whole unit, dogs and handlers, count towards public order, dogs would be great garrison troops: cheap to maintain, not as much pop cost. Only problem is the 2 turn recruitment time.

The significant other is away for a few days, I finally have some time to play in peace, for hours on end! ~D

[Maltz]

I have not really tested the effect of wardog garrison, but I know the population drain when the recruit occurs, is only the number of handlers. So I would suppose the garrison effect only counts on the handlers. ~:)

Under huge unit size there are 48 handlers and 144 dogs (1:3 ratio),
for large there is 24 vs. 72, for normal it is 12 vs. 36, etc. ~D

[Sin Qua Non]

Dogs are also great ambushers. Placed in the deep woods, they can be sprung across an enemy flank for best effect, especially since the AI likes to place skirmishers on the flanks. They also don't seem to be discovered nearly as much as other units when hiding. This is probably due to the fact that the cmputer probably only factors in the handlers when determining concealment. So all the enemy sees is a forest (which happens to be growling and snarling).

[moerty]

had to register to respond to this one heh, i use dogs, gladiators and elephants to fullfill RTS needs, occasionally i get a magnificent general who is wildy extravagant as one of his V&V's, so in order to fit the mood i reward him with these units as appetisers to battle so to speak. if the general must be in the field at least he can bring the circus to him since he can't go to the circus. i try to bait a unit with archers or scorpions so they engage my line and that's when i unleash my circus. my men cheer mightly at the spectacle and if they put a good show my general becomes inspired and puts a good fight, at least i make him fight more. if the whole army comes at me i still send the units to fight to the death, except for elephants, those i like to preserve for truly epic battles. :duel:

[Maltz]

I now have two really good uses of wardogs:

(1) Wardogs are excellent bugging & biting down foot missle units. They can still fire while being assaulted by doggies, but you will find their numbers drop like a slot machine. Better yet, they can also assault marching missle units. AI don't really let their missle units stop to fight the dogs - so they will be essentially chewed up.

(2) Phalanx at the town center. I just had 2 doggie groups devouring 2 full Macadon phalanx pikemen at the town center. The phalanx was not facing the dogs, so they had very weak defenses and they didn't know to turn their spear towards the dog. I only lost about 10% of the dogs (they can be regenerated anyways), and killed them all before my archers run to the town center. Dogs are the best non-missle unit against town center phalanx indeed.

[Besieger]

i totally agree with Maltz,...1 of the strategy i always use is to place 2-3 of my wardogs in e town center as my final solution for defensive....especially if ur town is juz protected by wooden wall. most of the time they do not fail me at all...

as for offensive....they are very useful in 2 situations.....firstly as we know against routing enemies and secondly against troops that are least armoured....like archers, peasants...etc...