City gates - a right royal pain in the bum

[rebelscum]

My pet hate at the moment is the city gate system.
Wether I march units through in an orderly fashion, or rush skirmishers through, something in the design turns even crack units into a mob of screaming idiots. Chariots seem to be the worst offenders (General screaming: 'Are you in or are you out, make your damn mind up'). What is it about the fact that one unit seems to bog down on the gate, other more mobile units decide to push through worstening the chaos. Then there are those few guys who decide that the gate is not the best way to get into the city and scrabble at the walls like demented rabbits trying to tunnel through (Skirmisher one: I have a phobia about gates. :dizzy2: Skirmisher 2: Wow, me too.).
My stategy with small towns is a simple one. Move up the ram to batter the gates while archers turn the defenders into mush. Once the defenders have moved away/archers ammo is depleted, send skirmishers in to lead the defenders in a merry dance of death. The proud spearmen march confidently through the gate in normal formation, then reform phalanx and push down the street backed by any remaining missile troops. You would think that simple enough that even a commander with the 'couldn't command his way out of a paper bag' trait would be able to accomplish.
But no.
Some of the remaining defenders decide to rout through the skirmishers on their way back to the square, ignoring the fact that if they went the other way round, they probably wouldn't die (well not just yet anyways). The skirmishers try to rush back out of the gates (skirmishing as they do) whilst the spearmen are entering (Spearmen: *bump*, excuse me!, do you mind!, sorry!, excuse me!, hey stop shoving at the back!, whats the hold up!, would you mind awfully taking that spear out of my groin).
The archers you had remaining in reserve decide that the single remaining gate defender is a good target for a volley of arrows, (General to archer captain: I just thought I'd given you the order to ceasefire, maybe it just took you a whole minute for the message to travel from your ears to your butt, where your brain is located). The defenders suddenly have a change of heart (erm, I thought you said these guys were good, lets get them, cheeaaargeee ). Half the spearmen have their backs turned with question marks above their heads ( ~:confused: he said turn right at the gate, no I'm sure he said left, I thought it was forward two blocks .. then rest, is that the enemy general charging with 200 cavalry, oh sheee). The General is frantically trying to stop the archers releasing another volley of arrows into the mass of spearmen as the cavalry hit ( :furious3: Tell them ceasefire means stop firing! ... what do you mean they don't speak Egyptian?) .
The Elephants decide that this is a good time to run amok and begin to play football with the onager crew (Half time score: Elephants 10, onagers 0). The scythe chariots get fed up waiting to get through and pass the time drag racing through your columns of crack infantry.
The General weeps into his helmet. :surrender:
(this was a compilation of events brought to you by RTW - The return of the pants) ~;)

[eadingas]

I only use gate attack as decoy attack. Always try to break the walls to the left and right of the gate - with rams on palisades or with saps/siege engines on walls - and then attack through the gaps with elite troops, while sending all the cannon fodder at the gate where it binds the defenders. Then it's just a matter of sandwiching the enemy from both sides.
I noticed Elephants often run amok right after entering through the gate. Wonder what's the deal with that.

[rebelscum]

Maybe elephants don't like boiling oil on their backs. I know I don't. Or it could be an elephant form of claustrophobia.
Your multi-entrance approach sounds good. I notice the AI waits several turns and builds multiple rams. I just haven't got the patience sometimes, especially when the enemy has a large stack approaching from the north. I would rather be in the city drinking tea when they get here, rather than face a bunch of starving defenders, pissed off from a year of sitting in a rat infested town 'and' an army of crack troops.
Another thing, in MTW you could surround a city, with RTW you can only place on 3 sides. This gives any re-enforcing troops a great avenue to stroll in through the back door if you aren't quick enough.
On a similar note, I assume sieging a city causes devastation and squalor within (it does when I am seig-ed). Is this enough to make the city rebel?, and if so would the defenders suddenly be popped out into the open arms of my army.
:book:

[eadingas]

As for elephants: I noticed them getting wild even if there are no defenders on the walls anymore. Even if the gate tower is ruined by onager fire. It wouldn't be weird otherwise. And the amok doesn't last very long... just enough to ruin your chances of getting into the city in an orderly fashion :)
The spy sitting in a city is supposed to open the gates for you if you're lucky... but somehow, it never happened to me, even if I had 50% chance of it happen. I don't even know how it looks like when he does that...
One thing I found very annoying about sieging: if you auto-resolve the siege, the buildings inside get randomly damaged. Even if you're not carrying any siege weapons, and even if it's farms and roads that get damaged. That is a damn bug if I've ever seen one!

[R'as al Ghul]

The spy sitting in a city is supposed to open the gates for you if you're lucky... but somehow, it never happened to me, even if I had 50% chance of it happen. I don't even know how it looks like when he does that...
It even happens when it's only a 35 or 40 % chance. It may not work on the first turn, though. Visually it's indicated by an open gate (middle right), displayed on the pre-battle screen where you decide which siege-gear you're building. Sometimes the gates only get opened on the second turn, i.e. you have already build rams etc. and decide to attack, only to discover that now the gates are open. On the battle-map you'll see that all four gates are cracked and you can march right in. The huge advantage is that the AI will try to defend all 4 gates.
@rebelscum,
I had a lot of fun reading your post. I've been there. Others already mentioned it, you need to build more than one ram. For wooden walls I ususally build 3 rams. One for the gate, the other two on the right and left side of the gate. For larger walls I like sap points, towers and ladders. Rams are cheap and if you bring enough troops (10+ units), they should be able to build 3 in 1 turn.

R'as

[rebelscum]

:book: *Reads from The Zen guide to RTW Generalship*
Elephants also continue to run amok if they have run amok during a previous battle and you haven't had the heart to put them down with your generals special ability, kill elephants running amok (soon to be included generals special ability: kill that bloody bloke on the scythe chariot who decimates my armies for no apparent reason). So correct deployment of amok elephants must be considered before the battle. Next to crack infantry is a no-no, behind you is definitely out :embarassed: , behind enemy lines would be good but sadly not an option, loading them into onagers and flinging them over the walls at the enemy would be ace :thumbsup: (*legionary shades eyes to the sun* Hey Spurius, is it my imagination or does that large dark blob flying towards us look curiously like an amok elephant? *mad elephant trumpets in the air*, by the breasts of Juno your right Lentulus, it does look curiously like an amok eleph .. *splat*).
:book: Elephants are expensive, if you cannot train them and were awarded them/merced them they are priceless), so having to 'put them down' is a bit harsh, a severe telling off and a cut in peanut rations would suffice.

[eadingas]

Hmmm I'm beginning to think a Monty Python Mod would be a good idea... with siege towers in the shape of giant rabbit, and onager missiles looking remarkably like cows...

[rebelscum]

Run away! Run away!
~:)

[SpencerH]

My pet hate at the moment is the city gate system.
....... The General weeps into his helmet.
(this was a compilation of events brought to you by RTW - The return of the pants) ~;)

Very funny :LOL: The only problem is that its all too true. I never assault gates, I always knock down the walls with onagers or sap them.

[drone]

Posted by eadingas:
Hmmm I'm beginning to think a Monty Python Mod would be a good idea... with siege towers in the shape of giant rabbit, and onager missiles looking remarkably like cows...
Don't forget to replace the background music/opening speech with insults in an outrageous French accent!

Definitely open multiple holes, not too far apart so that you can support both going through the walls. The AI will move units as you enter, sometimes not exactly in a tactically sound manner, but you don't want to have one "beachhead" overrun/crushed. Whichever one the AI goes after, use the other hole to come in behind them.

I think if you set the unit formation to be long/thin, they get through the breaches easier, as long as you stagger the units so they don't show up all at the same time. If they all go at once (especially with horses and other pushy types) it gets pretty messy. Anybody know for sure the best entry formation?

[Mikeus Caesar]

Hmmm I'm beginning to think a Monty Python Mod would be a good idea... with siege towers in the shape of giant rabbit, and onager missiles looking remarkably like cows...

Hehe......give some generals the special ability of making one of their gods feet squash the enemy.....or get the special highland kamikaze squad to attack them.

[rebelscum]

The Life of Brian would be more appropriate.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/1510/lifebrin.txt

My fave bit.

[trumpets]
PONTIUS PILATE: ...Make one large living awea. Ahh.
CENTURION: Hail Caesar.
PILATE: Hail.
CENTURION: Only one survivor, sir.
PILATE: Ah. Thwow him to the floor.
CENTURION: What, sir?
PILATE: Thwow him to the floor.
CENTURION: Ah.
[whump]
BRIAN: Aagh!
PILATE: Hmm. Now, what is your name, Jew?
BRIAN: 'Brian', sir.
PILATE: 'Bwian', eh?
BRIAN: No, no. 'Brian'.
[slap]
Aah!
PILATE: Hoo hoo hoo ho. The little wascal has spiwit.
CENTURION: Has what, sir?
PILATE: Spiwit.
CENTURION: Yes. He did, sir.
PILATE: No, no. Spiwit, siw. Um, bwavado. A touch of dewwing-do.
CENTURION: Oh. Ahh, about eleven, sir.
PILATE: So, you dare to waid us.
BRIAN: To what, sir?
PILATE: Stwike him, Centuwion, vewy woughly!
[slap]
BRIAN: Aaah!
CENTURION: Oh, and, uh, throw him to the floor, sir?
PILATE: What?
CENTURION: Thwow him to the floor again, sir?
PILATE: Oh, yes. Thwow him to the floor, please.
BRIAN: Aah!
[whump]
PILATE: Now, Jewish wapscallion.
BRIAN: I'm not Jewish. I'm a Roman.
PILATE: A Woman?
BRIAN: No, no. Roman.
[slap]
Aah!
PILATE: So, your father was a Woman. Who was he?
BRIAN: He was a centurion in the Jerusalem Garrisons.
PILATE: Weally? What was his name?
BRIAN: 'Nortius Maximus'.
CENTURION: Ahh, ha ha!
PILATE: Centuwion, do we have anyone of that name in the gawwison?
CENTURION: Well, no, sir.
PILATE: Well, you sound vewy sure. Have you checked?
CENTURION: Well, no, sir. Umm, I think it's a joke, sir,... like, uh,
'Sillius Soddus' or... 'Biggus Dickus', sir.
GUARD #4: [chuckling]
PILATE: What's so... funny about 'Biggus Dickus'?
CENTURION: Well, it's a joke name, sir.
PILATE: I have a vewy gweat fwiend in Wome called 'Biggus Dickus'.
GUARD #4: [chuckling]
PILATE: Silence! What is all this insolence? You will find yourself in
gladiator school vewy quickly with wotten behaviour like that.
BRIAN: Can I go now, sir?
[slap]
Aaah! Eh.
PILATE: Wait till Biggus Dickus hears of this.
GUARD #4: [chuckling]
PILATE: Wight! Take him away!
CENTURION: Oh, sir, he-- he only--
PILATE: No, no. I want him fighting wabid, wild animals within a week.
CENTURION: Yes, sir. Come on, you.
GUARD #4: Ha ha haa ha, ha ha ha. Hooo hooo hoo hoo. Hoo hoo...
PILATE: I will not have my fwiends widiculed by the common soldiewy. Anybody
else feel like a little... giggle... when I mention my fwiend... Biggus...
GUARD #1: [chuckling]
PILATE: ...Dickus?
GUARD #1: [chuckling]
PILATE: What about you? Do you find it... wisible... when I say the name...
'Biggus'...
GUARD #3: [chuckle]
PILATE: ...'Dickus'?
GUARD #1 and GUARD #2: [chuckling]
PILATE: He has a wife, you know. You know what she's called? She's
called... 'Incontinentia'. 'Incontinentia Buttocks'.
GUARDS: [laughing]
PILATE: Stop! What is all this?
GUARDS: Ha, ha ha ha ha ha...
PILATE: I've had enough of this wowdy webel sniggewing behaviour. Silence!
Call yourselves Pwaetowian guards? You're not-- Seize him! Seize him!
Blow your noses and seize him!

[lt1956]

Thats why they call those snake paths.

Anytime you siege you want atleast 3 times the number of the enemy. Second you want mutiple Breaches. without them you will loose more men and the enemy can bottleneck you.

I found it you have a mod or fix the hardy heat bugs and then played as they would back then in tactics you will do well. If you play like an RTS and just build and rush you will lose men and possible get AI path issue which will result in maybe you losing a possible overwelming win.

Lt

[TheDuck]

The Life of Brian would be more appropriate.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/1510/lifebrin.txt

My fave bit.

[trumpets]
PONTIUS PILATE: ...Make one large living awea. Ahh.
CENTURION: Hail Caesar.
PILATE: Hail.
CENTURION: Only one survivor, sir.
PILATE: Ah. Thwow him to the floor.
CENTURION: What, sir?
PILATE: Thwow him to the floor.
CENTURION: Ah.
[whump]
BRIAN: Aagh!
PILATE: Hmm. Now, what is your name, Jew?
BRIAN: 'Brian', sir.
PILATE: 'Bwian', eh?
BRIAN: No, no. 'Brian'.
[slap]
Aah!
PILATE: Hoo hoo hoo ho. The little wascal has spiwit.
CENTURION: Has what, sir?
PILATE: Spiwit.
CENTURION: Yes. He did, sir.
PILATE: No, no. Spiwit, siw. Um, bwavado. A touch of dewwing-do.
CENTURION: Oh. Ahh, about eleven, sir.
PILATE: So, you dare to waid us.
BRIAN: To what, sir?
PILATE: Stwike him, Centuwion, vewy woughly!
[slap]
BRIAN: Aaah!
CENTURION: Oh, and, uh, throw him to the floor, sir?
PILATE: What?
CENTURION: Thwow him to the floor again, sir?
PILATE: Oh, yes. Thwow him to the floor, please.
BRIAN: Aah!
[whump]
PILATE: Now, Jewish wapscallion.
BRIAN: I'm not Jewish. I'm a Roman.
PILATE: A Woman?
BRIAN: No, no. Roman.
[slap]
Aah!
PILATE: So, your father was a Woman. Who was he?
BRIAN: He was a centurion in the Jerusalem Garrisons.
PILATE: Weally? What was his name?
BRIAN: 'Nortius Maximus'.
CENTURION: Ahh, ha ha!
PILATE: Centuwion, do we have anyone of that name in the gawwison?
CENTURION: Well, no, sir.
PILATE: Well, you sound vewy sure. Have you checked?
CENTURION: Well, no, sir. Umm, I think it's a joke, sir,... like, uh,
'Sillius Soddus' or... 'Biggus Dickus', sir.
GUARD #4: [chuckling]
PILATE: What's so... funny about 'Biggus Dickus'?
CENTURION: Well, it's a joke name, sir.
PILATE: I have a vewy gweat fwiend in Wome called 'Biggus Dickus'.
GUARD #4: [chuckling]
PILATE: Silence! What is all this insolence? You will find yourself in
gladiator school vewy quickly with wotten behaviour like that.
BRIAN: Can I go now, sir?
[slap]
Aaah! Eh.
PILATE: Wait till Biggus Dickus hears of this.
GUARD #4: [chuckling]
PILATE: Wight! Take him away!
CENTURION: Oh, sir, he-- he only--
PILATE: No, no. I want him fighting wabid, wild animals within a week.
CENTURION: Yes, sir. Come on, you.
GUARD #4: Ha ha haa ha, ha ha ha. Hooo hooo hoo hoo. Hoo hoo...
PILATE: I will not have my fwiends widiculed by the common soldiewy. Anybody
else feel like a little... giggle... when I mention my fwiend... Biggus...
GUARD #1: [chuckling]
PILATE: ...Dickus?
GUARD #1: [chuckling]
PILATE: What about you? Do you find it... wisible... when I say the name...
'Biggus'...
GUARD #3: [chuckle]
PILATE: ...'Dickus'?
GUARD #1 and GUARD #2: [chuckling]
PILATE: He has a wife, you know. You know what she's called? She's
called... 'Incontinentia'. 'Incontinentia Buttocks'.
GUARDS: [laughing]
PILATE: Stop! What is all this?
GUARDS: Ha, ha ha ha ha ha...
PILATE: I've had enough of this wowdy webel sniggewing behaviour. Silence!
Call yourselves Pwaetowian guards? You're not-- Seize him! Seize him!
Blow your noses and seize him!

You, sir, have a great sense of humor. Some of the most hilarious stuff I've read on any forum, at any time. :bow:

And yes, the Life of Brian is just classic stuff. My personal preference is the whole 'What have the Romans ever done for us?' sequence. Riotous.

[rebelscum]

What have the romans ever done for us?. Sounds like a good title for my next post ~:)

[eadingas]

What indeed...

[Red Harvest]

Elephants also continue to run amok if they have run amok during a previous battle and you haven't had the heart to put them down with the generals special ability, kill elephants running amok (soon to be included generals special ability: kill that bloody guy on the sythe chariot who decimates your armies for no apparent reason). So correct deployment of amock elephants must be considered before the battle. Next to crack infantry is a no-no, behind your general is definately out :(, behind enemy lines would be good but sadly not an option, loading them into onagers and flinging them over the walls at the enemy would be ace (Hey Spurius, is it my imagination or does that large shape flying towards us look curiously like an amok elephant, *mad elephant trumpets in the air*, by the breasts of juno your right Lentulus, it does look curiously like an amok eleph .. *splat*). Elephants are expensive (if you can't build them and were awarded them/merced them they are priceless), so having to 'put them down' is a bit harsh, a severe telling off and a cut in peanut rations would suffice.

Man, that was funny. I'm in tears. I particularly like the "by the breasts of Juno" reference.

[Mikeus Caesar]

The posts in this topic are hilarious....especially the first one.

'it does look curiously like an amok eleph .. *splat*'

[rebelscum]

Getting into city gates is no longer my pet hate.
This has been replaced by another annoying thing, this time so much to the human players benefit.
Playing Egypt on Huge/VH/VH, I have now got used to being sieged by the Seleucids. They seem to round up every able spearman they can find and attack my large town Damascus. As soon as they siege I sally, but I stay in my town, and group all non missile troops in the middle. I place my archers stategicly around the place, bowmen, chariots and bedouin archers. Now if the AI had any semblance of a brain, it would think twice before attacking (Lt. Erm General sir, if we go near the walls without any seige equipment or countermeasures against the archers, we are going to get our arses shot off. Gen: Never mind that, I have a cunning plan.)
But more often than not, the opposing general moves all his troops towards the town. On occasion they have just stood out of range looking aggressive. All I then do is send some skirmishers out a side gate, which usually gets their interest. Lo and behold the spearmen march straight up to the fence and stand there. I sit back and listen to the sweet music of arrows wishing over the fence. The slow moving pikemen are soon cut to pieces. Even when a unit is down to its last few men, it never budges. This saddens me so much to think that such a great game is spoilt by such a silly AI.
(Lt: So what was your cunning plan general? Gen: Oh why don't you sod off!)
1232 - 0 was the last score. I'm glad to see in the enemys next stack they actually have some archers.
:embarassed:

[TEP]

ROFLMAO :laugh: :laugh: :laugh4: :laugh4: ~:thumb:

I'm going to look out for the name rebelscum when I look through these forums.
This thread is sooo funny. Thanks! ~:cheers:

[eadingas]

Hehe......give some generals the special ability of making one of their gods feet squash the enemy.....or get the special highland kamikaze squad to attack them.

Could we have the slingers commander have a shout: 'Nobody gets to stone anyone until I blow this whistle!' ?

[rebelscum]

Maybe that would stop slingers standing in front of the closed gates trying to throw stones through it at the guys on the other side. (*pock pock pock* ,reload, *pock pock pock*. Keep it up lads, another million throws and we'll have these gates down) :embarassed:

[Vanya]

...Definitely open multiple holes...

GAH!

Vanya sez... Penetrating multiple holes is what the game is all about! Three per edifice/object has a nice, practical ring to it... One from the front, one from the rear and finish it off up high!

:charge:

GAH!

[drone]

I have been quoted by Vanya, not really sure I can top this honor! ~D

[Mikeus Caesar]

This thread has gone funny. Almost like the roman roads thread, which believe it or not did start off serious. Last time i checked, we were discussing the issue of whether or not the romans should have destroyed all life on earth through lead poisoning.

[TheDuck]

(Lt: So what was your cunning plan general? Gen: Oh why don't you sod off!)
:embarassed:
ROFLMAO!

[V'ger]

~:cheers: Rebelscum,

Thank you for two of the most hilarious posts I've ever read in a gaming forum.

That scene in The Life of Brian is one of the funniest ever, IMO. Watching those two poor Roman guards inhaling their faces, trying SO hard not to laugh ...

Anyway, back on topic (HA!).

To set the stage, my usual approach to taking wooden walls is to drive up with at least 4 archer-types and use them to keep the defenders' heads down while my boys ram the gates and walls on either side open. (Depends on the layout. I never go through a gate that doesn't lead to the city center. I got tired of playing "Where in Antioch is Carmanus Sandiegotus?")

So, as Parthia I've been fighting the Selucids for 25 years or more and come to a city defended by about 600 men. I have my best siege general leading 2000 men. I have 3 Creatan Archers and 2 regular archers, 6 Spearbaras and my general's cav.

I set up, my spears make 2 breeches and bash the gate in. My archers keep their riffraff cav and foot away. I send in three spears inside the walls, line up the next three for follow-on through the breeches. Put my general ready to go through the gates and ...

:help:ELEPHANTS! Aaaaaah! OK, OK. Don't panic. I yank my spears out ... I SAID I YANK my SPEARS OUT! ("What do you mean you've never seen elephants before and want to have a look?")

I YANK *tRumpET* my *squish* spears *trample, toss* out ("Funny, didn't know their feet were grey.") and set my archers to use flaming arrows.

YES! Victory! The elephants are running amok! YEAH! ("What did you say? They're running WHERE!?") RIGHT out the front gate. THRU 2 units of veteran Spearbaras, THRU my general's cav and then they start playing Archer Speedball.

Half of my archers were trampled by the time it was over. Heck, half my troops were dead. We took the city and closed all the gates and huddled together inside, just hoping the elephants would go away. Which they did after 20 minutes. (NO, I DON'T know why the timer didn't expire. I have NO idea.)

Hope this makes you feel a bit better.


Too much is never enough,
V'ger gone

[rebelscum]

~:YES! Victory! The elephants are running amok! YEAH! ("What did you say? They're running WHERE!?") RIGHT out the front gate. THRU 2 units of veteran Spearbaras, THRU my general's cav and then they start playing Archer Speedball.

Half of my archers were trampled by the time it was over. Heck, half my troops were dead. We took the city and closed all the gates and huddled together inside, just hoping the elephants would go away. Which they did after 20 minutes. (NO, I DON'T know why the timer didn't expire. I have NO idea.)

*grins*
Maybe it would be a good idea to make a separate entrance/exit just for the elephants. Some sort of 'amok fallback plan' is definitely needed.

[V'ger]

Rebelscum,

Yes. All cities should have an "elephants only" entrance with its own path to and from the city square.

Elephants are rather binary, don't you think? I.e. you're either deliriously happy or completely paniced and terrified that they're there. And it isn't much of a factor whether they're yours or not, though having them does push it a bit towards happy.

I feel like a kid with a hot stove. I just can't help myself. I have to have elephants, even though I keep getting burned. I have the ridiculous hope that somehow I'll learn how to make candy.

I just had this wonderful little battle where I got some enemy spears turned away and sent my elephants crashing into their backsides twice. (Two separate units.) OH so much FUN.

Now, of course, I'll probably have some elephantine disaster where they trample my general and his hareem.

Speaking of gates, do you find your armies being completely buggered by cities with stone walls? Even with the best of luck (I won't say skill) I'm happy to have half my army emerge from the rubble. Many times I'm relieved just to have taken the city.

It's like there's this special secret command that all my troops hear "OK, now, you were ordered to the breech, please mill about outside for a bit then run the wrong way through the breech each time you're given an order. Oh and BTW, if you see any other guys in our army go by, TRIP them."

It's as if someone sprinkled extra retarded dust all over them. Not to mention it seems like the enemy fights with the strength of ten, helping to keep things pluged up.


Venting is good for the soul :furious3:
V'ger gone

[rebelscum]

Haha, ok now I have moved along far enough to attack cites with stone walls. Forget gates, the siege tower is now the most annoying way to get into a city. (*CG booming voice* Your siege towers have reached the walls. Me: Oh crap, not again) What a kerfuffle, ok .. ok, on the first try I tried to get all and sundry up there, dogs, incendiary pigs, cavalry. After a while I managed to work out that the units who could actually climb a ladder must have no more than two legs. As well as that, trying to get more than one unit up at a time makes the operation a complete mess.
Spearman: Hey you, Mr. Pushinfront , what unit are you in?
Skirmisher: Erm .. 82nd light inf, why?
Spearman: Well this is the 45th heavy inf tower bud .. you want the tower two walls down where the fighting is!
Skirmisher: Can't I just use this one?
Spearman: No ... bugger off 'dead meat'. :skull:
Other things I have spotted. When part of unit has reached the battlements and is enganged in fighting, if they are killed off quickly, the rest of the said unit gets an acute attack of ladderitis, and you have to re-issue the attack command.
Spearman: We've taken a straw poll and we've decided were not going up there, no bloody way!
Centurion: You lot get up there now or I'll have your guts for garters!

Spearmen: :gossip:
Do we have to take this crap?
Yeah, I left my nice farm in Masillia to go trapsing half way round the Roman empire, and for what, constant verbal abuse.
I agree its just not on.
Try some of this wine, its lovely.
Thank you very much, *sips* mmmm, it is nice.
Centurion: *slaps face with fingers spread*

I have also discovered that if you issue orders for a unit that is partly in the city, i.e on the battlements, to move further into the city, you sometimes find that they get extremely confused ~:confused: . In one case I had 50 men clinging to the side of the walls inside the city being hammered by cavalry. Some of the others were standing around at the bottom of the siege tower, one or two on the battlements, and a few stragglers were wandering round the walls outside the city (Stragler: dum de dum, :thinking2: wonder if they'll notice I've buggered off, now all I need is a handy bush to hide behind, bah someones pooped there, hmm maybe I'll try a rock)
So concluding, it should be one unit going up a seige tower at a time, reach battlements, fight till cleared, all of the unit are up, then run down tower stairs, form up and push for the middle.
I think.

[Mikeus Caesar]

if they are killed off quickly, the rest of the said unit gets an acute attack of ladderitis

That's damn annoying!! That's happened to me before, until the people on the ground just stay there, as if their sandals have melted and stuck to the ground. Even when the enemy starts clambering down the ladders (why do they do that? They're trying to defend the city, not abandon it) my men just stand there and get slaughtered.

[rebelscum]

10 Reasons for defenders climbing down ladders:
1. They are deserters.
2. Haven't seen a ladder before and would like to try it out.
3. Happy hour just started at the local pub.
4. Just following orders sir!
5. Vertigo (I gotta get down, please let me get down, pleeeeze)
6. Just for fun (Wheeeeee. You gotta try this out guys)
7. Got bored waiting for the enemy.
8. Down is the new up.
9. Simon says.
10. I'm telling you its a shortcut, now stop wingeing.
Good spot Mikeus.
:bow:

[Mikeus Caesar]

5. Vertigo (I gotta get down, please let me get down, pleeeeze)

Usually when that happens, they just jump off the walls instead. Sometimes they all turn into lemmings, so entire archer units jump off at the beginnings of battles.

[rebelscum]

Mercenary lemmings, available for hire in any province that has cliffs. ~:)

[Zharakov]

Rebelscum, you should be a comedian.

My most hated thing in RTW is... ONAGERS.

I mean come on, it isnt rocket science to figure out how to make a rock go 20 meters into the wall of an enemy city...

My favorite incedence seige with onagers went some thing like this... *Me Carthage... Them Egypt*

General: Ok men, that the seige towers to the walls!
Tower 1: HEEV... HOOO... HEEV... HOO.. WTF? Why is it on fire? *AHHHHH*
Tower 2: Heay... quit moveing the tower, and watch the other tower burn to the gound... lets all point fingers and laugh...
General: I'm comanding idoits. Ok ONAGERS OPENFIRE!!!
Onager crew: Ok boss...
*CABOOO*
General: NO!!! NOT OUR MEN!!!
*bye now the Egyptians are laguphing their arses off at the fact I had just shelled my own men...*
General: Ok Ragnar the Clumsey...try and hit THE WALL
Ragnar: Yes sir... Ok Hagar the Horible aim... take aim.
Hagar: *cross eyed* right away sirs... Dam I wish the wall would stop moveing...

Morel of the story... Make sure your men can count their toes on their finders while blinking and breathing at the same time...

[Saracen_Warrior]

In 7th grade, their was always an ancient history fair. Me and a buch of my friends looked up how to build a trebuchet so we built one for our project. No one thouhght it would work, sicne it has the swiging rope and doesnt look like normal catapult. Well, our first tennis ball went no where, it stayed in the puch. So we loosened the puch. We had jsut tied it wrong, but everyone was laughing(we were all cruel in 7th grade). Well i the second one went straight up, so we adjusted the rope, it went backwards, we legthened it, because that makes it go further(We had shotened it before). Eventually we got it going really far and some people atually thought it was pretty neat. WE had put out rope designating our lane of fire. The stupid principle didnt think we could launch it thta far and was standing talking in our lane of fire. We fired one more time semi hoping to hit him. CAll it luck or whatever it hit the principle in the head.

Morale of the story, once youve praactised a little it really not very hard to hit even a skinny jerk princicple, it should be easy enough to hit a 100 foot wall that stretches for another 200 feet. Trebuchets were probable harder to aim than an onager anyways. Too much lead in the Romans water a guess.

[Smaug-V]

I can't remember the last time I actually assaulted a city i was besieging. The entire process reduces me to a broken man every time. It takes SOOO long to get even a few troops inside the city, and negotiating the city streets is a pain in the arse. Much easier to wait for the army to starve or, even better, for them to send a full stack to break the siege. You can sit on the defensive, decimate both armies (hopefully), and take the city.

[eadingas]

The battle timer is a pain in sieges. I like using saps most in sieges, but I have to make two attempts at assaulting - in first battle I sap the walls, in second I charge, because otherwise I don't have enough time...

[rebelscum]

Anybody wishing to build and test out an onager by firing it at their enemy (tax office, bosses house, school etc etc), can find all they need to know in this handy book.
The Art of the Catapult: Build Greek Ballistae, Roman Onagers, English Trebuchets, and More Ancient Artillery
http://www.campusi.com/isbn_1556525265.htm
It's a good read, I give it five FTFOTS (firey things flying out of the sky) out of ten on the AWOMDB (ancient weapons of mass destruction books) scale.

:book:

[rebelscum]

The battle timer is a pain in sieges. I like using saps most in sieges, but I have to make two attempts at assaulting - in first battle I sap the walls, in second I charge, because otherwise I don't have enough time...
I'm sure this has something to do with the total number of units in the battle. As I play with huge unit size, I normally take a full stack. I wonder if you tried pad out your stack with peasants you might have enough time to do both in the one go.
[Handy tip]
If you are a fan of suicidal peasant rushes as I am, send a spy into the city to open the gates, and rush the peasants through them to soak up the boiling oil, a sort of human oilcloth so to speak. I don't know if there is a limit to the amount of boiling oil those gates produce, but I like watching helpless peasantry running around on fire anyway. One thousand peasant lives for a few minutes of distraction while my crack troops climb the wall is a good trade off in any case. See 'Sadistically Evil Genius Generals Handbook' Chapter 4 'How to win a battle with as much bloodshed as possible'
(No this book doesn't actually exist, before people start posting me asking for a copy ~;) )

[eadingas]

Yeah, I used the 'spy opens the gates' trick. Once. It was fun.
After a quickload, I told my spy to buzz off, and proceeded with the usual sapping and ladders business.

[rebelscum]

General: Right which one of you slackers left the gate open?
Guard 1: Wasn't me boss.
Guard 2: Not me boss.
Guard 3: It fassent meh bhass.
General: And I thought I ordered two man teams to guard the gate, don't you plebs ever listen! ... Oy you guard #3 in the cloak, come back ere.
~;)

[Mikeus Caesar]

The first time i put a spy in a city, i was expecting him to open the gates for me. The following battle went something like this:

General: Alright men!! Charge to the gates, and they shall open for you!!!
Soldiers: Erm...okay.
*soldiers run to the gate, avoiding kamikaze lemming archers on the way*
Soldier 1: I wonder what those pipes above the gate are for?
Soldier 2: Maybe we can find out once we've plundered and pillaged and got drunk!!
soldier 1: Okay then, but i have another question. Isn't that boiling hot oil coming out of the pipes?
Soldier 2: Nah, they're probably welcoming us with a wonderful fragranced bath, full of healthy lead.
soldier 1: Well if you s-*they run under the oil*-AAAAAAARGH!!! IT BURNS!!!!! Damn my AI incompetence!!! *dies*
soldier 2: Hey look, here comes our suicidal extra general!!! No general, don't run into the oil!!!
*nearby scream as general is incinerated*

[Cornflower]

Thats why they call those snake paths.

Anytime you siege you want atleast 3 times the number of the enemy. Second you want mutiple Breaches. without them you will loose more men and the enemy can bottleneck you.

I found it you have a mod or fix the hardy heat bugs and then played as they would back then in tactics you will do well. If you play like an RTS and just build and rush you will lose men and possible get AI path issue which will result in maybe you losing a possible overwelming win.

Lt


Errr... Huh? "hardy heat bugs"?

I suppose there's a link somewhere? Help? Please?

:surrender:

[rebelscum]

What! You mean to say you've never heard of 'hardy heat bugs'! Where have you been man, the moon?
~;)

[Cornflower]

What! You mean to say you've never heard of 'hardy heat bugs'! Where have you been man, the moon?
~;)

Now, really... If you bother to post, why not post the answer... How rude!
:furious3:

Or, could it be that you have no idea what I'm talking about? Hmm?

[Khorak]

My assaults on cities have very, very often degenerated into the utter destruction of the thin line of sanity between me and the incomprehensible rage that dominates most of my brain. If there's no-one in the house, such roars of utter hatred and contempt of the AI programmers life emanate from within my home that even a Khornate Daemon Prince would be cowed.

When I order a line of men outside the plaza in preparation for a charge is the worst. Maybe my computer is sentient and hates me. Or more likely, the people in charge of the AI need to be horrifically brutalised, and airdropped directly on the South Pole from ten thousand feet up with lead shoes. But either way I have caused the small children outside to stop their game of football in shock when my barbaric roar comes out the window because my guys have decided it would be a fantastic idea to simply march straight past where they're meant to be, a place still a bright cheery yellow so they know they're meant to be there, and just wander into the plaza. Usually immediately provoking a massive charge from the defenders with all sorts of infantry and cavalry. Having had heavy casualties forced upon me by the unreasoning worthlessness of the AI, I then get to order a full attack and watch as the pathfinding seems to consider the plaza as unbreachable except by very specific areas, so they all run off whilst getting murdered.

[Shahed]

ROFLMFAO !
I just woke the whole neighbourhood... this thread is CRACKING ME UP !

[Ar7]

You said it, I liked the part about three guards at the gates the most ~:cheers:

[Didz]

A wise man never enters a city through its gate, even if it is conveniently open.

Tzu Sun (well he would have said it, if he had played RTW)

[rebelscum]

Now, really... If you bother to post, why not post the answer... How rude!
:furious3:

Or, could it be that you have no idea what I'm talking about? Hmm?
Didn't you detect the hint of sarcasm in my tone. I haven't heard of 'hardy heat bugs' either, hence the joke. ~:)

[rebelscum]

My assaults
..
pathfinding seems to consider the plaza as unbreachable except by very specific areas, so they all run off whilst getting murdered.
Yes the pathfinding is dire. Ok so maybe ordering your whole army to run to the centre of the city is a bit much. But even if you set waypoints, more often than not the units go into confused mode.

Ok here is another niggle. When I have breached the walls I would like one unit to climb up the nearest tower and silence it. Now this only seems to work with the towers next to the gates. On one occasion I had made a hole in the far right hand corner of the city, ordered my troops in unopposed. Then I tried to get a unit up to silence the next tower. They just stood there being shot at and would not climb up onto the battlement, they weren't in skirmish mode either. So all I can think of is that they were just plain idle.
(General: Ok men, we're in, you skirmishers take the tower and run on to take the gate.
Idle skirmisher: *pushes someone forward* Go on then, you first.
Pushed skirmisher: Not me, I've got a sore foot.
General: Get moving, take that damn tower they are shooting at my bodyguard.
Idle Skirmisher: Does he have to shout?
Random skirmisher: Yes I'm getting a bit sick of that myself, lets ignore him completely.
General *arrow pings off helmet*: Bloody hell, move it you dogs!
Idle skirmisher: *pushes someone else forward* Better do as he says.
Pushed skirmisher: Gerroff, I'm knackered.
Genreal: *Clutches at arrow in chest* urghhhhhh!
Idle skirmisher: Couldn't have happened to a better person. Right lads, who's for a beer.
Skirmishers together: Beer .. beer .. beer.)

:duel:

[Cornflower]

Didn't you detect the hint of sarcasm in my tone. I haven't heard of 'hardy heat bugs' either, hence the joke. ~:)

Well... I wasn't really sure, so I was kinda semi-sarcastic back at ya. Nevermind. Just ignore me until I go away. ~D

[Simetrical]

The hardiness/heat bug is the bug that causes supposedly hardy units to tire more quickly than ordinary peasants, and supposedly heat-prone units to tire less quickly in heat than supposedly heat-resistant ones.

-Simetrical

[rebelscum]

Thanks for clearing that up! I thought they were some sort of alien life form that had invaded RTW! I was going to set the wardogs on them! ~;)

[Cornflower]

The hardiness/heat bug is the bug that causes supposedly hardy units to tire more quickly than ordinary peasants, and supposedly heat-prone units to tire less quickly in heat than supposedly heat-resistant ones.

-Simetrical


Right. Now, how to fix this?

:duel:

[rebelscum]

Search me, I suppse we wait till mid January for the patch then start moaning again straight afterwards. ~D

[rebelscum]

Well its a year since I first bought the game, and nothing much has changed. A patch or two later and were at the first expansion.
This is my first post in 6 months, anyone still here?
Has anyone seen my Diary of a Diplomat post. I think some genius moved it to a story forum. Tat was my Opus magna so if anyone knows where it is let me know,
cheers,
RS :book:

[Doug-Thompson]

The thing I miss most about M:TW is the trebuchet. Threads like this remind me.

And Jihads. Forgot Jihads.

[Hold Steady]

LOL rebelscum, this is great stuff. ~D

I have a simmering spot of red hot hatred for each of these points you mentioned too. Especially the waiting-game all units seem to have to enter open door-towers who are perfectly well straight in front of them. Now, if the weather was especially wonderfull, and no lifethreatening objects were flying through the sky and men would be reluctant to enter clammy damp towers, and there wasn't any particular battle to be won, I could imagine idling on the courtyard.

General: YOU there, into the tower! on the double!
Soldier 1: He's meaning us, I'll tell ya
Sarge: Right, you heared him! Get moving.
Soldier 1: Shee, yep it's us allright. There's a complete army allready standing here and guess who get to climb that mother. Us again.
Soldier 2: Aint that the truth..
Sarge: Quit talking and start those legs or I'll have you thrown of the wall!
Soldier 1: No, we won't. We like it out here.
Sarge: You WHAT?
Soldier 1: Like I said, we like it out here. We aint gonna climb no stupid towers just to get some lone archer and change the flag! Why allways do what you or that pimped up noisy dude want? We allways have to do these stupid sightseeing things. We come to a strange land, you pratically dragged us across godforsaken desert for years, from stinking town to a hell of boatride I certainly do not wish to repeat! I mean who the hell has to pull his own oars?! And then we get here, we got to do these stupid things like running up musty towers! And when we get there? what then, get back down on the double I presume?! No siree, not this time, you wanna enjoy the sight of these walls, climb 'em yourself you you you frog-faced loud-mouth
Soldier 2: Yeah.
Sarge: *speechlessly balancing between utter confusion and malignious anger*
Soldier 1: And one other thing, you tell this chap of yours, you know, with the silly helmet with all the red fluffy stuff coming out of it that we don't wanna pull the lead anymore. Sure we'd like to travel. That's what the ad said 'come conquer with us, be a man, see the world, slap a barbarian once or twice'. Well, that slapping has been quite reciprocal I must say. So if you and mister Funny dude here wanne get somewhere pronto, go ahead! We'll catch up, no need to worry about us! See how you like it, prodding barbarians out of muddy huts. Aint no stick long enough for that!
Soldier 2: Sure isn't.
Sarge: Okay, let's be democratic, I've been in Rome, I know the works.. Listen you two slime: if you two don't get up there first, with all our troops halfway now, there's gonna be a vote: who of you two get to be next to deliver the declaration of end-of-friendly-proceedings to the next of sorry ass barbarian scum. So, any volunteers?
Soldier1: Oh you mean thát tower?
Soldier2: that's not high at all..
Soldier1: *Hurrying off with nr 2* I told ya that tower was easy, I bet the view from there is fantastic! Imagine! all the dust clouds we can see on the horizon! Hey you lot, get out of our way, no time to hesitate here, are we the only hero's here? bugger off! Caius, clear us a path!
Soldier2: You bet!

[rebelscum]

Lol, thanks guys, i knew re-posting was worth it!

[The Stranger]

havent seen you around for an long time ~D

[dulsin]

I like attacking to the right of the main gate since pushing through the wall gets you a nearly direct path to the center of large cities.

The only problem is all the troops seem to HAVE to walk under the Arc de Triumph there. I know it is good luck and all but there is a wide avenue over to the left ... we can kill the defenders then come back and walk under the arch. Guys?! ~:confused:

[rebelscum]

Has anyone seen diary of a diplomat, for the life of me I can't find my post :furious3:
If anyone has seen it, please post the link here.

[Ciaran]

My, this threat is hilarious. :laugh4:

Actually, there are some references to the Life of Brian in RTW, most obvious is the description of the Judean Zealots (the Judean People´s Front ~D )

[Brutus]

There's one as well in the discription of the aquaduct ("What have the Romans ever done for us? This, that's what!" )

Really funny thread indeed. Nice to see you reposted the Diary of a diplomat again, Rebelscum, that's absolutely brilliant! :laugh:

[rebelscum]

I'm ROFLMAO. I got another one. I just had a bridge battle with the Gauls near Massilia. Half way through the battle I noticed the gaul light inf were moving near the edge of the water, then they started to wade in, waist high then neck high. Then they proceeded to drown in droves.
:thinking2: :thinking2: :thinking2:
This caused a mass panic and they decided to rout, not away from the bridge like you would think, but over it into the waiting arms of my cavalry! :charge: Where they all died to a man, and most ungraciously (*shrugging* and saying things like, mon deu, c'est las vie, je ne compreds pas, etc etc, yes I know my French is crap and yes I know the gauls didn't speak French ~D )
Now I haven't played much since the patch and my last job in London where I was away all day. But surely this never happend post patch, or not that I could remember.
Then when the massacre was over, one of my units heading over the bridge decided to wade in too, I only just caught it before the entire unit was lost. I cursored around for a while looking at the bodies lying at the bottom of the river. :embarassed:
You would have thought the Gauls could swim, they all look like Mark Spitz (for all you young uns, Olympic multi gold medal winning swimmer and Gaul impersonator).
http://jewishsportshalloffame.com/Hebrew/JSHF/images/Mark_Spitz.gif
Sacre bleu, A gaul if I ever saw one.

[Hold Steady]

Had a battle yesterday evening, the (stupid) numidians attacking Carthage with a zillion libian cavalry and a few skirmisher foot units. I had one slinger unit and a skirmisher myself and of course large walls. So, I finished of the two foot units with missiles and there they stood for the remainder of the day, half a stack of nubian missile cavalry.
Being bored I sallied out with one such unit myself to tease a few to the walls. one or two followed and a returned inside, except one lone cavalier kept riding in circles inside the gatehouse ^%$%^#!
Luckily the enemy didn't follow (not that I fear the head-on charge of light infantry, but anyhow, and I wonder at which level of walls you get the hot oil..) but it kept circling there for minutes, only to come inside after moving the entire unit a few steps further (they allready were at the town square).

Rabied horse?
Rabied rider?

Numidian Libyan cavalry captain: The Gate is left open, attack! This is our chance!
cavalrist1: No way dude, that horse is foaming, frothing from the mouth. No way I get near that beast. Haven't had my shots, my mother never gave permission for the vaccin, she's got some religion against needles.
Captain: You idiot! He's foaming because he's been running around in circles all day.
cavalrist2: Looks to me we got ourselves a regular chicken-egg enigma..
Captain: Ehh? What's that?
cavalrist2: well, which was first? Has the circling caused the foaming or is it foaming because of rabies? In which case it must be circling because of rabies and hence it foams. Fascinating dilemma really..
cavalrist3: indeed
cavalrist4-60: *looking puzzled*
cavalrist1: You cannot take too many chances. I'm staying. My health is my most prized possesion.
Captain: I will take that job offer up for saharan camel driver now that I think of it. Nothing wrong with staring to the stars over a camp fire of camel dung.

[The Stranger]

Rebelscum check the library in the meadhall (the sticky) you ca find it in R of rebelscum

[rebelscum]

Ah the old 'mead hall library ploy' eh. I must remember that when I want to really annoy someone. :book:
Thanks Stranger, BTW I re-posted DOAD on this forum.

[rebelscum]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear, during one of my latest battles, both armies suddenly dissapeared apart from their banners.
Zooming closer I could see them, it was sort of like some low lying fog had obscured my view of the army. When I zoomed out again they dissapeared back into the 'fog'. I waited to see what would happen, and I saw the Gauls unit flags continue to approach my army flags and begin to annihalate them by the sound of it. My flags then routed off the battlefield. What fun.

General: Where'd everybody go? Centurion, Centurion, where the hell are you?
Cent: Here sir.
General: Where?
Centurion: I can hear you but I can't see you.
General: Me too .. what happened to the troops?
Centurion: Well they were ahead of me a minute ago just as we started attacking up the hill!
General: Well you better find them and tell them to retreat until we find out whats going on.
*sounds of battle and screaming*
Centurion: Erm, we may be a little late.
*retreat!, retreat!, we are being attacked!, sounds of hundreds of footsteps running past*
General: Centurion .. Centurion.
Centurion: Yes sir.
*sound of Gaulish war cry comes from all around*
General: Were dead.
Centurion: I know sir, sorry sir.
:help:

[The Stranger]

DOAD???, was that, do you remember me i used to be Emperor Umeu I

[The Stranger]

DOAD oh yeah i'll check it out

[rebelscum]

DOAD???, was that, do you remember me i used to be Emperor Umeu I
Didn't you used to be 'symbol' formerly known as Emperor?
~:cheers:

[Hold Steady]

Didn't you used to be 'symbol' formerly known as Emperor?
~:cheers:

I'm really not following this DOAD stuff.. Similar to the onset of sudden fog.

[rebelscum]

DOAD = diary of a diplomat, look for the post on this forum :dizzy2:

[Celt Centurion]

The spy sitting in a city is supposed to open the gates for you if you're lucky... but somehow, it never happened to me, even if I had 50% chance of it happen. I don't even know how it looks like when he does that...

If the spy does not get thrown out on his butt, (mine usually does), just as you begin an assault, and you have the screen to "fight on battle map", or "autoresolve", there will be a picture on the right side of that panel of a stone wall with an open gate, and text telling you that the gates will be open.

Usually, I prefer to put lots of siege towers, at least 6, more if I think to make more during a siege, and put men directly over the gate, even if it is open, which will keep boiling oil out of your collar. Last night, I did it differently, and just charged through the gate, expecting losses, but fortunately for me that time, no boiling oil came down.

Anyway, just look for the "open gate" picture just before you choose how to resolve the battle.

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[br0kenrabbit]

When deploying at a gate-breaking party, I go in stages. Everything has to be lined up to be deployed properly, though.

-Battering rams (always 3) lined up along one or two sides to best avoid any tower fire. Sometimes you can completly avoid it.

-Behind the battering rams I click and drag my troops to lay out a formation only four rows across (4wide). This allows them to fit through the hole without breaking formation. Velities and Light Aux come first (to break up any defenders), then Aux (to break the inevitable horse charge), then hastati/Early Legion followed by any Legionary Cohorts in the rear.

-The hole furthest from the actual gate is for Aux/Archers/Horses only (again, 4wide). If there are no defenders, the horses go through first to attack the defenders at the other holes from the sides.

-When moving the 4wide formations, once they are at the gate (not through it), click and drag your final formation in the enemy encampment. No one will get hung up if you time it right.

[King Henry V]

I hereby propose the motion that rebelscum be declared the Org's official resident comedian!

[The Stranger]

Didn't you used to be 'symbol' formerly known as Emperor?
~:cheers:

alright now i plain english.......cuz i dont understand.

i used to go by the name Emperor Umeu I.....is this one of your jokes Rebelscum ~D ~D cuz your intelectual is far above mine....you know that eh ~D

[rebelscum]

Well it was a play on words to do with the 'artist' formerly known as Prince now known as symbol.
You were formerly known as emperor which is close to prince.
~:handball:

[rebelscum]

The spy sitting in a city is supposed to open the gates for you if you're lucky... but somehow, it never happened to me, even if I had 50% chance of it happen. I don't even know how it looks like when he does that...

If the spy does not get thrown out on his butt, (mine usually does), just as you begin an assault, and you have the screen to "fight on battle map", or "autoresolve", there will be a picture on the right side of that panel of a stone wall with an open gate, and text telling you that the gates will be open.

Celt Centurion

General's Speech: Ok men, when we get to the city, my spy network should have the gate open making it a cakewalk for us to rush in and take the walls and the main courtyard. An easy victory awaits!
Army: Rowdy cheers.

*an hour later*
General: *proud* My men are almost at the walls, the gate should be opening just about .. now ... *nothing happens*
about ... 'now' ... *still nothing happens*
.... NOW *nada*

*tap tap on Generals shoulder*
General: Whaaaa,
Spy: Sssarry bhasss, I ssshouldn't creep up on you like that.
General: *aghast* Why aren't you in the city opening the gates ...
Spy: Sssarry bhasss, I fell asssleep, and when I woke up I was out on my asssss.

[rebelscum]

I hereby propose the motion that rebelscum be declared the Org's official resident comedian!

I am already Emperor Umeu's court jester ~:joker:

[rebelscum]

Rabied horse?
Rabied rider?

Numidian Libyan cavalry captain: The Gate is left open, attack! This is our chance!
cavalrist1: No way dude, that horse is foaming, frothing from the mouth. No way I get near that beast. Haven't had my shots, my mother never gave permission for the vaccin, she's got some religion against needles.
Captain: You idiot! He's foaming because he's been running around in circles all day.
cavalrist2: Looks to me we got ourselves a regular chicken-egg enigma..
Captain: Ehh? What's that?
cavalrist2: well, which was first? Has the circling caused the foaming or is it foaming because of rabies? In which case it must be circling because of rabies and hence it foams. Fascinating dilemma really..
cavalrist3: indeed
cavalrist4-60: *looking puzzled*
cavalrist1: You cannot take too many chances. I'm staying. My health is my most prized possesion.
Captain: I will take that job offer up for saharan camel driver now that I think of it. Nothing wrong with staring to the stars over a camp fire of camel dung. ~D Makes you think though.
What came first, the disease or the animal with the disease. Lets all go hang Darwin :hanged:

[The Stranger]

I am already Emperor Umeu's court jester ~:joker:

you are...YEAH he is,:crowngrin: and i'm not sharing him unless :idea2: look here's the :deal: you guys better be all :ears: cuz if you're no that would be very :stupid: and i would have to :whip: you :dizzy2:

[Ragnor_Lodbrok]

Hmmm I'm beginning to think a Monty Python Mod would be a good idea... with siege towers in the shape of giant rabbit, and onager missiles looking remarkably like cows...
Brave sir Robin insteading of routing troops.

[rebelscum]

Yeah and they can all shout 'no I didn't' :knight:

[LestaT]

There's a kind of fix to city gate problem , with a mod or somwthing. What it does is change the gate widts so less confusion around. Not sure which file to change though.

[The Stranger]

i dont really think the thread is about that anymore

[Celt Centurion]

The Life of Brian would be more appropriate.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/1510/lifebrin.txt

My fave bit.

[trumpets]
PONTIUS PILATE: ...Make one large living awea. Ahh.
CENTURION: Hail Caesar.
PILATE: Hail.
CENTURION: Only one survivor, sir.
PILATE: Ah. Thwow him to the floor.
CENTURION: What, sir?
PILATE: Thwow him to the floor.
CENTURION: Ah.
[whump]
BRIAN: Aagh!
PILATE: Hmm. Now, what is your name, Jew?
BRIAN: 'Brian', sir.
PILATE: 'Bwian', eh?
BRIAN: No, no. 'Brian'.
[slap]
Aah!
PILATE: Hoo hoo hoo ho. The little wascal has spiwit.
CENTURION: Has what, sir?
PILATE: Spiwit.
CENTURION: Yes. He did, sir.
PILATE: No, no. Spiwit, siw. Um, bwavado. A touch of dewwing-do.
CENTURION: Oh. Ahh, about eleven, sir.
PILATE: So, you dare to waid us.
BRIAN: To what, sir?
PILATE: Stwike him, Centuwion, vewy woughly!
[slap]
BRIAN: Aaah!
CENTURION: Oh, and, uh, throw him to the floor, sir?
PILATE: What?
CENTURION: Thwow him to the floor again, sir?
PILATE: Oh, yes. Thwow him to the floor, please.
BRIAN: Aah!
[whump]
PILATE: Now, Jewish wapscallion.
BRIAN: I'm not Jewish. I'm a Roman.
PILATE: A Woman?
BRIAN: No, no. Roman.
[slap]
Aah!
PILATE: So, your father was a Woman. Who was he?
BRIAN: He was a centurion in the Jerusalem Garrisons.
PILATE: Weally? What was his name?
BRIAN: 'Nortius Maximus'.
CENTURION: Ahh, ha ha!
PILATE: Centuwion, do we have anyone of that name in the gawwison?
CENTURION: Well, no, sir.
PILATE: Well, you sound vewy sure. Have you checked?
CENTURION: Well, no, sir. Umm, I think it's a joke, sir,... like, uh,
'Sillius Soddus' or... 'Biggus Dickus', sir.
GUARD #4: [chuckling]
PILATE: What's so... funny about 'Biggus Dickus'?
CENTURION: Well, it's a joke name, sir.
PILATE: I have a vewy gweat fwiend in Wome called 'Biggus Dickus'.
GUARD #4: [chuckling]
PILATE: Silence! What is all this insolence? You will find yourself in
gladiator school vewy quickly with wotten behaviour like that.
BRIAN: Can I go now, sir?
[slap]
Aaah! Eh.
PILATE: Wait till Biggus Dickus hears of this.
GUARD #4: [chuckling]
PILATE: Wight! Take him away!
CENTURION: Oh, sir, he-- he only--
PILATE: No, no. I want him fighting wabid, wild animals within a week.
CENTURION: Yes, sir. Come on, you.
GUARD #4: Ha ha haa ha, ha ha ha. Hooo hooo hoo hoo. Hoo hoo...
PILATE: I will not have my fwiends widiculed by the common soldiewy. Anybody
else feel like a little... giggle... when I mention my fwiend... Biggus...
GUARD #1: [chuckling]
PILATE: ...Dickus?
GUARD #1: [chuckling]
PILATE: What about you? Do you find it... wisible... when I say the name...
'Biggus'...
GUARD #3: [chuckle]
PILATE: ...'Dickus'?
GUARD #1 and GUARD #2: [chuckling]
PILATE: He has a wife, you know. You know what she's called? She's
called... 'Incontinentia'. 'Incontinentia Buttocks'.
GUARDS: [laughing]
PILATE: Stop! What is all this?
GUARDS: Ha, ha ha ha ha ha...
PILATE: I've had enough of this wowdy webel sniggewing behaviour. Silence!
Call yourselves Pwaetowian guards? You're not-- Seize him! Seize him!
Blow your noses and seize him!



This is TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Funny!!!

I am still laughing my head off!

Celt Centurion

[Celt Centurion]

General's Speech: Ok men, when we get to the city, my spy network should have the gate open making it a cakewalk for us to rush in and take the walls and the main courtyard. An easy victory awaits!
Army: Rowdy cheers.

*an hour later*
General: *proud* My men are almost at the walls, the gate should be opening just about .. now ... *nothing happens*
about ... 'now' ... *still nothing happens*
.... NOW *nada*

*tap tap on Generals shoulder*
General: Whaaaa,
Spy: Sssarry bhasss, I ssshouldn't creep up on you like that.
General: *aghast* Why aren't you in the city opening the gates ...
Spy: Sssarry bhasss, I fell asssleep, and when I woke up I was out on my asssss.



Something like that.


Celt Centurion

[Celt Centurion]

Rebelscum,

Yes. All cities should have an "elephants only" entrance with its own path to and from the city square.

Elephants are rather binary, don't you think? I.e. you're either deliriously happy or completely paniced and terrified that they're there. And it isn't much of a factor whether they're yours or not, though having them does push it a bit towards happy.

I feel like a kid with a hot stove. I just can't help myself. I have to have elephants, even though I keep getting burned. I have the ridiculous hope that somehow I'll learn how to make candy.

I just had this wonderful little battle where I got some enemy spears turned away and sent my elephants crashing into their backsides twice. (Two separate units.) OH so much FUN.

Now, of course, I'll probably have some elephantine disaster where they trample my general and his hareem.

Speaking of gates, do you find your armies being completely buggered by cities with stone walls? Even with the best of luck (I won't say skill) I'm happy to have half my army emerge from the rubble. Many times I'm relieved just to have taken the city.

It's like there's this special secret command that all my troops hear "OK, now, you were ordered to the breech, please mill about outside for a bit then run the wrong way through the breech each time you're given an order. Oh and BTW, if you see any other guys in our army go by, TRIP them."

It's as if someone sprinkled extra retarded dust all over them. Not to mention it seems like the enemy fights with the strength of ten, helping to keep things pluged up.


Venting is good for the soul :furious3:
V'ger gone




Taking a city, I usually have my elephants just "stand it out" over in the corner of the battle map. They are just too unstable.

I do keep them close by though to defend the city. They make fast work of most any infantry except spearmen. I could not believe how fast they take down Egyptian Desert Axemen.

I mentioned this before, although not everybody agrees with me: Have patience and let the enemy come out to you. Yes, it takes longer, but it's easier to destroy an army on an open field than on a city wall. After waiting until "time to fight or surrender", they are usually down to about 45% strength, which can also lower YOUR casualties.

Sometimes, when there has been a revolt, I find myself thrown out on my butt, and half of the enemie's "instant army" decides to "stand guard" outside of the walls. I send my spy back in, sometimes 2 or 3 of them, and then have the army lay siege again. Almost every time, the army the enemy had sent out to stand guard attack my besieging army. I accept their challenge, and the board comes up showing my army vs the one challenging me, reinforced by the ones in the city. That is two separate armies, each about half the size of my own, on two sides of the field. Usually, I am able to totally destroy one, and then the other one. If I am able to rout the first army, then totally destroy the reinforcing army, the city is mine again, usually taking no more than two turns.

I find it disappointing when the enemie's reinforcements DO NOT show up. As I said, it's much easier to fight them on the field than to find my way into some of those town squares.

Last night, a city revolted, their full stack Brutii "instant army" immediately attacked mine, reinforced by two units from inside the city as reinforcements. I won that battle, and the city was mine again, in one change of the turn!

I still have a lot to learn about this, but at this point in the campaign I'm presently on, I have 42 cities, have won about 1100 battles, and lost about 20. About half of the defeats were naval battles, and we know that we have no control over those. The others were mostly "sacrifices" to whittle the enemy down somewhere. I knew starting the battle that I couldn't win it, but also knew that I could cut the enemy down to size in the process. So, although it showed as a "defeat", it was still a victory in my plan.

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[rebelscum]

After reading this, I was wondering, if you haven't got enough of a population to
raise units from, how is there enough to rise up against you?
This must be what the Americans call insurgents! :duel:

[LestaT]

i dont really think the thread is about that anymore

Yup, I realize that. Eheh.. The thing is I reply base on the first page of the thread... Then only I realize now it's become kinda Mr Bean thread (or Mind Your Language)...

Eheh..

Cheers..

[rebelscum]

I've had enough of this wowdy webel sniggewing behaviour! :stupid:

[The Stranger]

yeah fosho...courtjester dis him till he cries for his doggy.

[Celt Centurion]

After reading this, I was wondering, if you haven't got enough of a population to
raise units from, how is there enough to rise up against you?
This must be what the Americans call insurgents! :duel:


Rebelscum sounds so insulting. May I please call you Reb?

Some towns don't have enough population, while others the population multiplies faster than I want it to. I can put nine units into the que with a population of 30,000, and before they are all trained, there is a revolt. Good thing about revolts is "cutting the population down to size" after taking it back.

Such cruelty is regrettable, but rebellion must have it's price.

One thing I am going to try is moving units out, and backfilling them with peasants. I tell you, it's hard to keep them happy in there!

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[Ciaran]

Well, that´s the magic of percentage growth. If you´ve got two cities with a growth of 5%, and one has 10,000 inhabitants whereas the other only has 1,000, the first one will pop out 500 new citizens per turn (even more, because the 500 new ones also grow at 5%, so in the second turn you´ll get 525 new citizens and so on), the latter will only get 50.

[rebelscum]

But it still doesn't explain the miracle rebel army that appears when your city revolts.

[gardibolt]

Yeah, where exactly did that rebel army of fully-trained triarii come from? And why weren't they fighting for me when I held the city? ~:eek:

[rebelscum]

10 reasons for miracle appearance of fully trained triarii in city when it rebels

1. Triarii on a day trip from Rome, got drunk and started a fight.
2. They were hiding out for two years in the sewers since the last battle, surviving on rats.
3. Rebel General swapped them for 4000 peasants with neighbouring city.
4. Alchemy.
5. Please send me 160 Triarii uniforms 'size peasant' by first class post.
6. Trail of the first parachutes.
7. By the power of Greyskull!
8. Cardboard cutouts.
9. Free Triarii with every box of choco-flakes.
10. Poetic licence.

[Celt Centurion]

But it still doesn't explain the miracle rebel army that appears when your city revolts.

Yeah,

When they revolt, I have learned to exterminate them. EVERY TIME!

It's a real pain in the rear end "re-taking" the same city over and over.

Why can't those people in there behave themselves?

What I would like to see built into the game;

When you see on the campaign map that "peasants are revolting",

be able to go in and view it on "Battle Map", and then go find the miscreants, and excercise "Confrontation Management." Take the ringleaders, and send them to the salt mines. Maybe, take all of the rioters and send them to the salt mines.

Halfway decent idea?

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[Garvanko]

Yeah, where exactly did that rebel army of fully-trained triarii come from? And why weren't they fighting for me when I held the city? ~:eek:
Triarii I can accept.

9xp peasants I can't. These guys scare me.

[The Stranger]

pahahhahaha they are worthless....they have 12 attack and 11 defence usually no big deal for a medium experienced army

[rebelscum]

Yeah,

When they revolt, I have learned to exterminate them. EVERY TIME!

It's a real pain in the rear end "re-taking" the same city over and over.

Why can't those people in there behave themselves?

What I would like to see built into the game;

When you see on the campaign map that "peasants are revolting",

be able to go in and view it on "Battle Map", and then go find the miscreants, and excercise "Confrontation Management." Take the ringleaders, and send them to the salt mines. Maybe, take all of the rioters and send them to the salt mines.

Halfway decent idea?

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion
Yes I think interactive punishment of rebels would be great. Damn, what am I saying! ~D

[rebelscum]

Has anyone actually got some trained peasants?
How high can you get them, it would be great to have some super hard 240 strong band of 'thugs'. I would send em in first.

Enemy General: Ho ho, this commander has no idea, he sends peasants in first. My elite heavy infantry shall turn them into mush.

Peasants storm into heavy infantry and crush them in seconds, then head straight for the General.

Enemy General: :scared:

[The Stranger]

241 *you forgot your general loosers*

[rebelscum]

Arrgh, I just got beaten up in Spain by 9x peasants, some of them were triple siver gold shield thugs. It was my own fault.
I had sieged and occupied Osca (the grouch city), realised that the city was red and ready to rebel. So instead of trying to keep it, I decided to torch the place and move my troops out. The senate, being the interfering buggers they are, sent me on a mission to take another Spanish town, so I moved the troops to a boat to sail round to capture it. As soon as my troops were on the boat, after the next two turns, rebellion happened obviously, and the 9x peasants appeared, and started to move north. Then the senate changed their minds about me taking the previous town and told me that they wouldn't put up with rebels and I should go back and take the rebel town. I the cowering senate loving dog that I am, got off the ship and went to take the town back. Meanwhile the peasants jumped on a small group of re-enforcements trying to hold the pass. The ragtag band of mixed units with no general were pretty much swamped by the peasants even with my superb tactical defence. My 200 stong equite cavalry were completely squished.
Now I know what Custers last stand must have felt like.

I think that when peasants reach a certain level of training they should be transformed into the next highest unit type. i.e peasants -> war band
This would stop it seeming a bit stupid that highly trained elite peasants suddenly appear and beat the crap out of you. I mean all it would take in real life would be a few hundred cow hides and a stick to tie their dagger to, ergo speamen. :weirdthread:

[Slug For A Butt]

Yup, max exp peasants can be a real pain in the butt. I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I've had them take out moderately well equipped half stack armies a couple of times. OOh the shame! But I guess thats the risk you take if you let a city with no army buildings revolt. I now always make sure that any city I govern has the ability to recruit moderate soldiers at least. I'd rather face decent crap than uber peasants.
Damn those revolting peasants. :furious3:

[The Stranger]

butt.....ahahahhahhahahaha...butt......aaahhahahahahahahaha no it isnt it is a huge experience gain for you...i slaughtered an army of 4000 powerpeasants and it was awesome...you saw a whole line of dead peasants with now and then a red cape of a legionare....

[rebelscum]

Yipee, got my new (ish) PC yesterday and the first thing I did was install total war. It now kicks ass as I have no lag and the graphics card means I can play it in full res with all the nice bits. I actually got my m8s 3 month old PC as he just bought bits for a new one costing about 3k. Oh and a nice new 19" 4ms TFT monitor. Life is bliss.

I then got into a massive 2 vs 1 battle vs a rebel held city. I expected the AI to bodge it but they actually did quite a good job.
I got to the middle just before they did.
So maybe the 1.2 patch isn't so bad.
I might actually consider buying the expansion. What do you think, should I?

[aw89]

wait for the patch first

[rebelscum]

Hey, now I've got my new PC, I was thinking of installing a mod, which one should I put on? I like realism more than graphics, but I would like a bit of a grapics improvement. I also want it to be extreemly hard as I find the plain verison too easy.

[rebelscum]

i've added bugfix 1.64 and now i'm going to add,
Mundus Magnus, v.2.0
:duel:

[rebelscum]

Ok don't add bugfix and that mod. Just the mod will do. Yeah I like the large map. Pity the AI general I helped out charged and died. Why the hell do they still do that!!!

Roman General Speech: There stand the Cartheginians a proud and noble people. However they are no match for the might of Roman arms!
My years of experience shall see us through this men.
*cheers and clashing of pilum on sheild*

(The battle begins)
General: There are the enemy men, get them!! Cheeeearge!

Peasant 1: Where he hell is he going?, I'm stuffed if I'm running to keep up!
Peasant 2: I think he's just showing off, he'll be back in a minute to order us around.
Generals unit in full armoured cavalry charge!! *Taran Taraaa*

Peasant 1: He's not going for the elephants!
Peasant 2: He ****** is.
Peasant 1: I can't watch *shades eyes*
Peasant 2: Oooooch, that made a splat.
Peasant 1: He Dead?
Peasant 2: As the proverbial Dodo, lets piss off now before the elephants see us.

[Ciaran]

Mundus Magnus is pretty cool, but I´d take Darth 5.8, that´s MM with Darth´s formations and loads of new cool units (the roman skins, however, don´t look as good as in the stock game, but that´s no problem and can easily be mended).

[rebelscum]

Thanks, I'm gonna try it now. BTW, the simple fix for the Roman skins is? ~D
:book: According to the readme it fixes AI generals charge. Oh goody.
The first thing I noticed about MM was the walls round the Gauls cities at start of play (playing SPQR), good idea'ish. Storming them wiped out most of my initial army, but a direct assault was the only way. Boiling oil isn't nice (see earlier posts), however now I have a nice protected city to begin with, Patavium and the Rebel held town. I was only a few turns into it so I don't mind starting again if the fixes/mods rock. ~:cheers: Ciaran
BTW, BI release is on my birthday 27/9, so I sort of have to get it.

[rebelscum]

More on MM ref: City walls. In MM the wall climbing/seige towers, getting down seems to have been semi-fixed, in the small town walls anyways. I did get one unit a little stuck but I just clicked to move it back outside the walls and it did it quite speedily instead of acting dumb Getting up is a breeze I double clicked on the unit I wanted to attack as before and the unit went up the nearest tower. This worked before but I feel it was slightly less hesitant to get up the tower.
See how it sort of comes back round to the original post topic after 100 some posts ~D
If anyones wondering, the reason I never put mods on before is that I had a 5 year old PC, it was a dual athlon 1800 with a ti4600 v/c, but it was gettin so crusty and the vanilla game crashed regularly even with 1.2 patch. (yes I had the latest v/c drivers, see how I'm cutting down on posts )

[Butcher]

RTR 6.0 is good, though I guess we are all awaiting EB.

[rebelscum]

I'm well pleased with Darth mod 5.8, I actually had my first battle with the Romans where my missile cav didn't get to just stand there and shoot the Generals unit to bits. The AI is much improved. Playing Carthage for a change as they seem to have a strong starting pos. My navy just sunk theirs carrying 2000 troops. What fun.
I also like the Roman eagle touch.
:mellow:
I'm sure I'll find something to moan about. Also the Roman skins aren't all that bad. At least they aren't luminous pink, I was a bit worried.

[rebelscum]

Hmm, I'm busting up the Romans a bit too easily in Dathmod, they dont seem to be building enough ships, I've got them completely blockaded and have drowned about 10k of their troops. Are there mods with better naval AI?

[Colovion]

I think, before this topic slips into the ancient threads, I shoudl put in my two denarii.

Myself and my brother played this game for a long time, awed and amazed by many things. There were those things which were annoying as well. The City Gates were irrevocably the highest on the list. The whole city would be the prime spot but the gates, being the focal point of the citys defenses, were the true abrasive.

I recall one time when I had a set of 3 units of hoplites which were attempting to keep the romans from entering their city walls through the gates. At one point I had a unit of skirmishers sent out to harrass the Romans as they approached and then decided that I would later retreat them into the city before they came too close to close the gates. Easy? Well of course not! Hahaha. They would do their wonderful "Single-File-Exit" and "Meander-about-scratching-themselves" along with only 5 of them throwing any kind of weapon towards the enemy. I was satisfied with having this annoyance go slightly unnoticed and decided that any kind strategy wasn't about to be allowed until the walls were breached. So I clicked to have the skirmishers return behind the walls. ... so they walk... Soon, the Romans decided that my skirmishers were in some way mentally retarded and charged at them. Frantically I was clickclickcliclicklicklicklickliclkick "GET BACK BEHIND THE WALLS!"clickclickclick. To no avail. The Romans caught my handicapped skirmishers in the gates (they had yet to move 10 feet) and the city was lost.

These examples are found in abundance in about any time you try to move a unit of soldiers through any portion or terrain which dictates that the unit must "Individualize". It's this system that hinders the ability to really move the units about the city and through walls and gates with and form of fluidity or pleasure at troop movements.

In the end, troop movements are an annoyance because of the lack of the engine's ability to "flow" the soldiers over terrain and obsticals therein.

[rebelscum]

Yeah skirmishers are the worst offenders. You cannot get skirmishers through gates/holes in skirmish mode when defenders still remain. I only once saw skirmishers retreat out the hole they entered in time, and that was only due to the fact the chasing unit was hoplites in formation.
The problem is, you sort of have to get skirmishers in unless you have tons of heavy infantry to throw in. Slingers, once in, can harrass slow moving troops around the city giving you time to get the rest of your units in. No point tryng to get cav through when hoplites block every entrance.
The worst situation is to be seiging when the defenders have good archers (foresters, pharaohs). You have to attract their attention, and the most cost effective way is to send skirmishers in ; in loose formation. Otherwise they will takeout the battering rams and decimate your infantry.

[rebelscum]

Installed RTR and I'm glad I did. Darthmod was cool but lacked something, I don't know what. I think realism has gone the whole hog as far as making the game into something it should be. Good on you guys.
Anyway enough on mods before some well meaning 'mod'-erator moves it.
BTW I got a funny gate story this time with a fort playing with darthmod (don't think it had anything to do with the mod).
I seiged the fort which had a unit of principles and generals cav. I surrounded it with archers and shot the **** out of them. I then battered down the fence with elephants. Meanwhile there one unit of slinger re-enforcements came towards the fort. My cav got them, however when I reached the centre there was a continue button so I clicked it. I realised one of the slingers had got as far as a side gate and was stuck there, still running. I tried to get him with archers but I couldn't hit him, I got the invisible arrow bug where it seems like its firing and makes the sound but no arrow animation. I tried fire arrows but still no arrows. So in the end I had to wheel a battering ram round and batter the gate down, and then the lone slinger ran into the fort straight into the waiting arms of sacred band spearmen.
Poor sod.
~D

[rebelscum]

I just ordered BI with its GRAAL knight and priests. Please god let the RTR modders get on to it asap.

[Ciaran]

Yesterday I had a funny bridge battle. I was besieging Vienna (DarthMod 5.8), and my army (Carthagian, by the way) was positioned on the bridge. The romans, usually cowards when it comes to field battles, attacked with a relief "army" of two Principes units - against four Sacred Band, two Scutarii and medium spears each, three Balearic slingers and two armoured archers. Add a general, and the army´s complete.
Of course, the forces in the city sallied forth to support their suicidal comrades. Not that they could have stood a chance, as they had to cross the bridge, but that´s beside the point. Now, the two Principes attacked, or rather tried to. As a matter of fact, they routed before they even reached my end of the bridge. Why routing units try to flee right through my lines is something of a riddle to me, but then again, if I kill them today I don´t have to face them tomorrow and if they decide to conveniently let themselves skewer on my pikes, who am I to protest?
It took quite a while, but finally the reinforcements frm the city arrived, entered the bridge and...stopped. In the middle of the bridge. Not going anywhere. My ranged units were depleted, so they didn´t kill all that many of the second force and I wasn´t so stupid as to send my units onto the bridge. So, I just turned the timer to maximum speed and waited for the battle to end. :dizzy2:

[rebelscum]

I've noticed that in BI, when you have a bridge battle with re-enforcements, that they come from the rear of the opposing army. Usually the enemy start to attack across the bridge and then when your re-enforcements appear they split their forces. When this happens I charge my initial units and crush the initial attack and slam into the rear of the turned troops. The quicker you can make your two armies meet the better.
I don't know if the gate and bridge problems have been fixed as I haven't taken a walled city yet, being on the backfoot at the start of the game.

[Craterus]

The armies enter the battlefield corresponding to their position on the campaign map. If you surrounded an army on the bridge, then reinforcements would come from behind the enemy.

[Ciaran]

So they did in plain Rome - which is very useful or outright deadly, depending on who´s the one that gets the reinforcements in the opponent´s back, you or the AI.
Or are you saying, Rebelscum, that in BI reinforcements always appear in the back of the enemy, regardless of their position on the campaignmap?

[rebelscum]

So they did in plain Rome - which is very useful or outright deadly, depending on who´s the one that gets the reinforcements in the opponent´s back, you or the AI.
Or are you saying, Rebelscum, that in BI reinforcements always appear in the back of the enemy, regardless of their position on the campaignmap?
Aha, thats for me to know and you to find out.
~D Actually come to think of it, both times I brought troops out of other cities to attack. So they did approach from behind, I think.
But lets say you approach from thr left or right, what side of the river is that.

[Kraxis]

Aha, thats for me to know and you to find out.
~D Actually come to think of it, both times I brought troops out of other cities to attack. So they did approach from behind, I think.
But lets say you approach from thr left or right, what side of the river is that.
The obvious answer would bethe side of the river they are on on the battlemap, but that is perhaps not to great to say without having tested it. But I do believe that is how it goes.

Gates are fixed to some extent, at least regarding spies. We all remember how we hated that the spy didn't do much for us in stonewalled cities, and that the spy was downright deadly to the AI when it attacked.
Not so anymore. Not only is the oil killed by the spy now, the AI actually goes for something else than the gate itself. That can be a nasty shock.

[rebelscum]

:bow:
That's good to hear, although I wonder how the spy knocked out the oil.
If I had a city I would make sure I had spy proof gates. If the pathfinding through gates is fixed I'm more than happy.

[Garvanko]

Whether a spy knocks out the oil should be based on competency or other such traits, right?

[rebelscum]

Your guess is as good as mine, I will have to try different spys to see if the percentage chance to open the gate is based on the spy's competancy.

[Kraxis]

Whether a spy knocks out the oil should be based on competency or other such traits, right?
Well, think about it this way. The spy can beat open those huge gates (think Epic Walls here), yet he can't figure out how to put out the fire underneath the oil and spill it. The spy is a spy, but in each city he recruits people who are willing to help his cause (an oft used way of winning over cities in antiquity), they are the ones that open the gates and kill the oil.

It is more believeable to me when the oil is out than if it is not.

[rebelscum]

Ah, a spy network, the plot thickens. Sounds plausable enough.

[rebelscum]

Well BI still hasn't fixed the problem with units getting confused around walls. Last night I sieged a large city. Part of the left hand wall (left generals view) had crumbled and had fallen inside the city. The unit I sent to capture the gate (goth swordsmen) got stuck leaving the gate tower and started milling around the building closest to the door when a rebel spear unit came around the corner. I clicked to attack it. However I got no response from the unit except to mill around the fallen rocks. I even tried to line them up in front of the rocks but they ignored me.
The spear unit routed them pretty much straight away.
I really don't know why this still happens.
Another thing, in BI seige towers tend to get destroyed much more easily than before. Now I have to place the siege tower a few walls down from the gatehouse.

[Emperor Aurelius]

This is one of the best threads I've ever seen lol!

[rebelscum]

I've added BUG-Fixer thanks player1 for your efforts. I hope CA are on to the engine fixes required.

[SomeNick]

Here's my 2 Denarii worth too :)

Wooden Gates and barbarians behind them are tough!!!

I had a problem the other day early in a Brutii campaign ( using 1.3 rtw) trying to take Patavium. I had a basic army with no character general trying to storm their Gaul gates and after 10 mins of firing from velites and balista, after destroying gate, and putting another hole in the wall to flank them, they were relatively unscathed...

There were three units of Gaul infantry and a general's unit sitting around behind the wall and my 12 unit army got owned lol.

And this is why...

Even at the gates , destroyed and open, Velites are not very good at inflicting casualties through a wooden wall gate, with the war band sitting riiiight there!. Or behind the walls / left or right of gate... This is very funny, because taking the great walls of Macedon they are very effective at taking out hoplites etc along the top of the wall...'?'!

Anyway my skirmishers ran out of ammo so I went and engaged in hand to hand, supported by cavalry and hastati, as the gauls wouldn't budge (rightly so too), with a warband and swordsmen, and the general running around town sight seeing until his glorious moment ... at the gate. I took many casualties. You know it was kind of like, 'Geez ... I want to hurry this up I outnumber them... I'll just rush 'em ' sort of thing...

The swordsmen seemed impervious, especially after the Gaul General gave my troops a good kicking. I routed left, right and centre. Also due to the swordsmen having decided after they had been covering the other hole in the wall and very tired of playing catch with balistae bolts they'd come back and scare the skirmishers and hastati a bit more.
My troops rallied, as they do when they can't see the swords etc at a distance... went into the fray again, as the Gauls were cut up a bit, and thought I'd out flank them again and... lost my basic army :O

Anyway, I was quite shocked that the AI kicked my arse so hard with so few units. And I felt it was because taking 'Wooden Wall' gates is actually more difficult than large walls with regard to missile fire from basic troops.

I'm beginning to think that missile troops can fire when normally they can't if spotted by another unit? No parapets (I think their called?) along wooden walls. But I haven't seen much mention of this around the forums.

And yeah, I lurrrvvv how troops walk through gates and not run/charge at a certain point at gate. Hilarious and yet frustrating...

Great thread by the way :) ~:cheers:

[rebelscum]

A couple of firsts today. I was besieged by the franks the horse numbered well over 4k troops, they completely surrounded me. They built one seige tower a ram and two saps. As usual the seige tower and the ram approached, however with BI both the seige tower and the ram are torchwood and went up in flames before they reached the walls. The franks then sent the spear unit that was pushing the ram 'all' the way around the walls to the saps at the second gate, I was frantically shooting at the closest sap but it wouldnt ignite, however they marched straight past it and were shot to death by the gate towers before they got to the next. The franks then left the field of battle. I'm sure they had units that could sap left and they had more than enough units to have crushed me if they had sapped the walls, can frank horde spears sap? In the next few turns I had enough units to trounce them in the open and their leaders were sent scurrying back into WRE territory.

The huns besieged a city where all I had was one goth raider unit, a warlord and some slave spearmen, I thought I'd had it until I saw their stack, 9 herdmen units and one spear unit consisting of 60 men (lol). They built one seige tower and proceeded to attack with obvious results. Why did they bother!

Next the ERE sieged a city, I thought I was safe during deployment until I realized the gates were spy breached. I frantically stopped the rush from them with my warlord and some swordsmen until I got more swords down.
It was a close battle for the gate but I held it. They had a couple of units of heavy infantry who I thought would cause me some problems, but they just sat in the rear doing nothing. They also sent a spear unit to a sap just next to the gate even though the gates were open. They didn't have enough units to complete the sap and when they emerged they were destroyed.
If they had sent all their units in with the rush they might have got me.

So three completely unsuccessful attempts to take my cities by the AI. Whilst I easily took a city filled to the brim by WRE peasants getting all three towers to the walls and mashing them up with my silver shield swordsmen.

The conclusion to all this is that the AI has no idea how to take a walled city unless it has vast amounts of units and a spy can open the gates.


:duel:

[rebelscum]

I'm now playing MTW2 :)

[Celt Centurion]

Hello Rebelscum,

It's good to hear from you again. I always did enjoy your funny way of telling a story.

Yup, I avoid sending in an army through breeches or a gate. If there's time, I always prefer about a dozen or so siege towers, sometimes more.

As for defending, try this. When I am up to it (sufficient troops combining missile, infantry and cavalry), it never has failed me.

Archers on the walls,

cavalry "grouped", half at the left gate and half at the right.

That will usually make your ungrouped infantry unit cards look something like this. (keep them ungrouped)

I-1 I-3 I-5 I-7
I-2 I-4 I-6 I-8

Choose gate, be it side if you want to march them around, or front if you want to hold them at the gate or march them out under arrow cover.

_________________________ __________________
_________________________gate__________________
I-1 I-2 I-3 I-4 I-5 and so forth. Leave a unit size of space between each unit.

First gallop your cavalry out, but not far, just a distance of what would look like a couple of hundred yards straight outside the gate. They will form there while your archers shoot arrows and you send out your skirmishers. Then, when your cavalry is outside the walls and forming up, you can easily move your infantry into position.

When you want to march them out, send them one at a time, in order of lineup, to a designated location. Simply take top left, bottom left, top second, bottom second and so forth. Allow about 10 seconds between commanding each unit to march. Once they are all in motion, they will actually resemble a snake moving along the inside perimeter of your walls and out to the field. If you watch where you send each to, they may even march to the checkerboard Acer Triplex formation. Once they are out of the walls, and if you did it at the left or right gate, they can already be in formation and unmolested. Then go ahead and group them if you wish, and march them on around the walls. If however, you send them straight out the front gate, they may be heavily engaged before you are ready, but on the positive, your archers and slingers will have good hunting.

It took me two years to figure out how to solve that simple problem, but had it mastered within 2 battles. They all move out in an orderly manner, without tripping over each other, and into some workable formation. If the enemy wisely avoids the archers, you can still march them out behind the infantry and put them to work that way.

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[Celt Centurion]

Greetings Folks,

The diagram on the screen does not quite match the one I created on the screen.

The main thing I was trying to get across which didn't seem to go on right is this.

Put I-1 right at the gate. Then leave the space that one unit would occupy, and put I-2 there. Same with all the others. It may be parallel to the wall. It may wrap around a street corner and toward the town square. What's important is they are arranged in order of their position to the gate, and can all be marching without tripping over one another.

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[Ciaran]

I'm now playing MTW2 :)

Oh,that´s good, do you have anything to share on that one yet? Like your Diary of a Diplomat :2thumbsup:

[rebelscum]

Well I was thinking of another skit called, "The Idle Inquisitor".
Just thinking up some plotlines and trying to find time from my programming job :(

[Ciaran]

"The idle Inquisitor", now that sounds promising :2thumbsup:

[rebelscum]

Sorry haven't got round to it yet, I tried adding it to my project tasks at work but my boss caught on.:oops: