Hunnic invasion: RTW Expansion?

[CrackedAxe]

Just watched a good epidode of Time Commanders repeated on UKTV History. This was a repeat that I did'nt catch the first time around: The Battle of Chalons, 451 AD. It was the same format as usual, a team from the public playing RTW while commented on by military history experts, but the units were all new to me. Usually in TC we see the same units in the same timescale as in the game.

This recreated Attila the Huns army and its attack on a Roman army. The units contained Hunnic barbarian units, Visigoths (on the roman side) and Ostragoths. They mentioned in the progam that during this time the Huns smashed through nearly all of Europe and into the Western Roman Empire, and threatened Rome itself.

Sound like a future expansion pack?

[Silver Rusher]

This is definately the most likely.

[djsway]

Hey how is that show? How do they play the game? On multiplayer?

[lars573]

Hey how is that show? How do they play the game? On multiplayer?

Time commanders uses RTW's engine not the game itself. My impression is that they move around a pieces on a borad and digital units move in accordance. Not being British nor American I've never seen the show myself.

[CrackedAxe]

Actually it pretty much IS the same as the game, apart from this particular episode, the units and the terrain are exactly the same. Watching it is identical to watching a battle in the game. Thats what surprised me about these new units (Hunnic heavy and light cav, visigoth heavy cav, Alan mercenary cav etc). Did CA create these just for the show? Or are they holding them back for the expansion? It was 451 AD after all.

[The_Doctor]

I think the x-pack will be about the fall of Rome.

Why do I think that you ask.

Go to Data/text in the RTW file and look at this txt file: scipio_campaign_regions_and_settlement_names.txt

Some names of provinces:
Constantinopolis(That means this campaign must be in the 5th century)
Qal'eh al-Farah(I don't where this is, but it sounds arabic)
Kwarizm(I think that is in modern day Iran)
vandali(Germanic tribe)

[CrackedAxe]

Well, the battle I described above was 451 AD, fifth century, so that would be right. If you look at the Hunnic invasions of Europe at this time, and the reputation of Attila and the Huns (known as the scourge of God) and their clashes with the Roman Empire, then this definatley seems like the best bet for an expansion pack.

Of course those names you mention will be there, because the map is likely to cover much of the same area.

[Kraxis]

If you guys see any of the other Time Commanders you will notice that the units at Chalons are in most cases units that were available to that version of the RTW engine. Some are a mix of other units.
So in the vast majority of the cases the units are not new per se. RTW now is new.

[CrackedAxe]

I'm not convinced, Kraxis, some of the units were made to look like hunnic units, including Attila the Hun himself, and even some of the Roman units looked very different to how they normaly look on TC, which is usualy exactly the same as RTW. Anyway, time will tell. My bet is still on the expansion being Rome Total War: The Hunnic Invasion. I think this would easily be the best scenario also, imagine: Trying to hold the ailing fifth century Roman Empire together and relaunch it, in the face of the mighty Hunnic empire that at this time is spreading throughout Europe from Asia and seems unstoppable.

[Orda Khan]

I tend to agree with you CrackedAxe, those units you saw were Hun Nobles and Hun Horse Archers. The Alan mercenary horse archers were basically the same as the Hun HA apart from the saddle cloth, yes? Other units such as Gepid infantry and Visigoth cav were very similar to units we have already.
I would not expect the Hun units to be created for just one TV episode.

The armies that clashed that day were extremely similar in construction and in fact, Aetius was a great friend of the Huns and Attila until this battle. The Huns had made up the majority of his western empire armies that had been surpressing the revolts in Gaul and fighting the Visigoths, the truth has become a little forgotten where the Huns are concerned. The Huns had caused no end of trouble for the eastern empire but even when they had the opportunity, they did not overthrow it. The reason was simple, the Huns needed the eastern empire and by overthrowing it would have severed a valuable source of income, whether by tribute or looting, such was the nature of Hun society. They did not have the resources to run a complex society and lived by predation.

But talking of the armies of those times, they were all very similar and were even constructed of the same peoples, many 'Roman' generals were Visigoth and there was at least one Vandal that I can recall. Likewise, Attila had a Roman among his senior commanders. Add to this two Frankish brothers in a hereditary dispute who sought help through opposite avenues ( one went to the Huns, the other to the Romans ) The armies of the area were Roman, Hun, Visigoth mainly by name only.

Hopefully you are right about the expansion, the Huns get my vote ~;)

......Orda

[m4rt14n]

Rome Total War: Fall of Rome..... Although wat factions would u think should be if they ever release an expansion pack with this nature?

[Mikeus Caesar]

They will prolly release it with a few more factions. Like the huns, and the visigoths. Who knows, they might make the map bigger. Or they might replace the crappy AI with MTW's AI.....but that would be but a dream. To have AI that actually worked.

[Unseen Potato]

I hope they will make all factions playable and give them more units, like they did in VI.

Some of the factions could really need some more units. Like greek cities who can build nearly all units availbale to them within 250 bc ( except heaby onager maybe).

[Mikeus Caesar]

I hope they will make all factions playable

When you say that, do you mean that you wish that you could play them without having to unlock them?

[m4rt14n]

MTW AI does not work.

Come on, do u really want an AI that just stick in the corner of the map waiting for u to climb uphill and attack it every friggin time?

[Didz]

MTW AI does not work.

It certainly worked a damned site better than the RTW one does.


Come on, do u really want an AI that just stick in the corner of the map waiting for u to climb uphill and attack it every friggin time?


Why not, thats what I always do ~D

Only I always have 4 Heavy Onagers throwing dirty great fireballs into your cohorts plus 4 x units of archers raining arrows on your head just to improve your motivation.

[m4rt14n]

lol, by the time I get to building Onagers, the campaign is pretty much done. At least the RTW unit would rather leave the battle than resolve to the cheap sitting in corner high hills. I've always hated MTW AI fighting in the Alps and camping in that snowy mountain.

P.S: I note that with Onagers you can win auto-resolve battle with heavy phalanx armies sieging cities more than if u have nothing.

[Goattail]

It better not be the Hunns, if we dont get to play with Alexander, Darius, the Sacred Band and friends I will be very very unhappy little despot. The TC series was made long before RTW was anywhere near completion and release so they could of changed the games timeline and abandoned plans to include the Hunns or just put together the units for the show, maybe there were other units and factions planned that didnt make it into the game.

[The Hun]

What is wrong with Huns? You want more of Hoplite phalanx slow motion?
With Fall of Rome you could include Franks, Visigoth, Ostrogoth, Vandal, Alan, Gepid, Lombard and still Romans. With Alexander what you get? Slow motion?

[m4rt14n]

The Macedonian Phalanxes in Alexander times were much more mobile and versatile than the later Phalanxes. The Philip and Alexander version has less armour, faster, and can adapt to situations better by changing their formations around. The ones in RTW can only do either standard or locked shield formation, while there was supposed to be another close formation that allows for better movement and charges.

Either way is good for me. However if u go with Alexander times, it shouldnt be called Rome: Total War anymore, no?

[master of the puppets]

well i think i saw that show under a different name "decisive battles" in the U.S. well in this one anyway i think they just slapped a scythian warlord in scythian archers and called um' huns.
now fall of rome ...i can see it now "Barbarian: total war" to whittle away at the declining romans and squable among the rest of the barbarians at this time who all have basicly the same units the roman troops changed to economize less armor and training weaker there roman blood corupted those damn persian once more eating aT THE WESTERN BORDER BESIDE THE HUNS DAMN THEM DAMN THE ALL TO HELL RAISE THE HORN AND CHARGE FORTH GOOD ROMANS REMEMBER YOU GLORY, YOUR PAST AND FIGHT YOUR SHIELDS MAY BE ROUND YOUR ARMOR LEATHER BUT YOU HAVE THE SPIRIT OF ROMANS , NOW BLAZE FORTH AND MAY ARES RIDE ON YOUR SHOULDERS. oops i got all emotional again.well i could be a good roman general or at least the guy who writes his speechs oh well

Where are the days of rome
where are the shadows of shields
where are the raised gladius's
where have the they roars of glory gone
and why do we, true soldiers, sit here before our glowing monitors wishing to raise the sword once more and charge into battle for death and glory to be one of the honored the victorios dead

[Rurik the Chieftain]

The Huns would be very like the Scythians (many horse archers) but man, it would be fun to seep through and pillage Europe and the Middle East. Especially as nomadic raiders :charge:

[CrackedAxe]

Master of puppets, I think Decisive Battles was a very different show, wasn't it just a documentary? whereas TC is a game show, where members of the public get to fight the battle using RTW. The Huns in that looked very different to the Scythians to me.

[Orda Khan]

Master of puppets, I think Decisive Battles was a very different show, wasn't it just a documentary? whereas TC is a game show, where members of the public get to fight the battle using RTW. The Huns in that looked very different to the Scythians to me.

Correct. They were actual Hun units, dressed in blue robes with the familiar fur rimmed pointed hats.

As for resembling the Scythians, this should not be the case. Attila's armies had changed considerably from the early Hun horse archer armies. They now included Gothic heavy cav and infantry. There are many references to Hun infantry who 'leaned on their shield' very similar to the later Mediaeval pavise. The horse archers were still there of course but they no longer made up 90% of the army. Attila also had very efficient seige craft, more so than his barbarian neighbours

.........Orda

[CrackedAxe]

Thanks for the info, Orda. This would make a fascinating expansion, I hope CA plan to take this route as I think they are.

[Watchman]

The Huns ran into the very same problem as every single nomad empire before and after them who tried to set up shop in East Europe - not enough plains. The Great Hungarian Plain is the westernmost tip of the Great Eurasian Steppe Belt, and every single nomad who stayed on it ended up settling down because there simply wasn't enough grassland to graze the herds on. Sarmatians, Huns, Avars, Hungarian-Magyars... all of them had to give up pastoralism if they stayed there (which is probably why the Golden Horde, well, didn't).

The nomads who stayed on the steppes east of the Carpathians naturally didn't have this problem, and as the Hunnic Empire was still whole by that point Attila could recruit them into his armies, but for the most part the Huns of his time fought like all the other barbarians of the Migration Period.