View Full Version : Most famous Daimyo and why?
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
02-18-2002, 00:09
Who do you think is the most famous Daimyo and why?
links to references would be gladly welcomed.
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Grand Master of
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"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
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I'd say Nobunaga.
He was THE driving force behind the entire thing.
The rest just picked up the pieces imo.
Yoritomo78
02-18-2002, 18:51
I would say Takeda Katsuyori would be one of the daimyo's of note, for he was the daimyo that ultimately sealed the fate of the Takeda clan, although his old man was a very feared opponent Taked Shingen.
Even Nobunaga commented in his chronicles that his was a beautiful and heroic death.
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Tachikaze
02-19-2002, 04:51
Without a doubt, Tokugawa Ieyasu is the most famous. Oda Nobunaga would be second, and Toyotomi Hideyoshi third. Just missing the bronze would be Takeda Shingen.
I would reverse Toyotomi and Takeda for anyone who has seen Ran.
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
02-19-2002, 04:55
Tachikaze...
Er isn't third place usually considered bronze. Therefore in your opinion Hideyoshi would take it, with Shingen coming in fourth. Right???
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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
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Papewaio
02-19-2002, 08:30
Quote Originally posted by Toda Nebuchadnezzar:
Tachikaze...
Er isn't third place usually considered bronze. Therefore in your opinion Hideyoshi would take it, with Shingen coming in fourth. Right???
[/QUOTE]
Hence the phrase;
Quote Originally posted by Tachikaze:
Just missing the bronze would be Takeda Shingen.
Ran.[/QUOTE]
Tachikaze
02-20-2002, 03:36
Yes, I was just trying to be creative and topical with my choice of phrasing. In the political realm, Takeda would be fourth (thus just missing the bronze medal*). Among fans of samurai films, he is probably up there with Oda and Tokugawa.
*In reality, it is not fair to rate these guys head-to-head. Tokugawa was a speed skater, Takeda a downhiller, Toyotomi a pairs figure skater, and Oda a temple burner.
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Toda Nebuchadnezzar
02-20-2002, 03:54
Oh god sorry I have just re-read what you wrote and then what I wrote and realised I completely messed up there. Whoops sorry.
But on another note iam very very glad you chose Ieyasu as your most famous Daimyo.
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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
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Minamoto Yoritomo
02-20-2002, 04:42
Well, if you count infamy as a kind of fame, Minamoto Yoritomo would have to be one of the most famous (or are you limiting this to Sengoku Jidai daimyo?)
Tachikaze
02-20-2002, 05:42
I was personally not limiting my choices to Sengoku, but I think people are more familiar with that era than the time of Genji/Taira.
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
02-21-2002, 03:30
WHat about in the time of the Miawoara (sp?) I know nothing of that period and yet have heard so much about it.
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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
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Tenchimuyo
02-22-2002, 03:17
Well I would say that the most famous daimyos are Takeda Shingen and Oda Nobunaga. For they were the most feared worriors on the battlefield.
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Toda Nebuchadnezzar
02-23-2002, 04:39
Tenchi,
They were not the most feared warriors on the field of war.
Yes they controlled great armies that were feared, but they themselves were not known for their fighting skills. They as Daimyo and so manouvered their army from the rear.
The sword saints were feared warriors as was (cant remember his name) the most famous and skilled warrior ever known.
The Daimyo were known for their skill as generals and military leaders, but not warriors by way of fighting every battle that they fought
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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
http://www.gifs.net/animate/aniyin.gif
[This message has been edited by Toda Nebuchadnezzar (edited 02-22-2002).]
Quote Originally posted by Toda Nebuchadnezzar:
The sword saints were feared warriors as was (cant remember his name) the most famous and skilled warrior ever known.
[/QUOTE]
LOL...That is kind of funny (to my warped sense of humour)...He is the most famous and skilled warrior ever known...but you cannot remember his name! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Anyway, the name I keep hearing as the most well known warrior in Japan (I would not say "most famous and skilled warrior ever known") is Miyamoto Musashi, author of the Book of the Five Rings. He was born in 1584, and from my understanding spent most of his life as a ronin.
Takeda Shingen
02-26-2002, 22:52
For me it's got to be my namesake Takeda Shingen for i believe that if he lived he would've unified Japan.I also agree he was one of if not the best commander's on the battlefield,he in some cases reminds me of Napoleon since he was rarely defeated.
Yagyu Jubei
02-27-2002, 01:11
I agree on the names but not on the order. LOL
Toyotomi Hideyoshi then Nobunaga and then Tokugawa followed by Takeda
My reasoning is that Toyotomi was the one that really got the country close to being UNIFIED....true there was still a few clans and dissenters. Nobunaga picked up the pieces of his lord and then lost to Tokugawa through deceipt.
There is a saying in Japan that if there was a singing bird that didn't want to sing,
Toyotomi would say make it want to sing
Nobunaga would say force it to sing
Tokugawa would say wait for it to sing.
For this reason I think Toyotomi Hideyoshi was the most poplular as he actually inspired the people. The others were more brutal.
[This message has been edited by Yagyu Jubei (edited 02-26-2002).]
Quote Originally posted by Yagyu Jubei:
There is a saying in Japan that if there was a singing bird that didn't want to sing,
Toyotomi would say make it want to sing
Nobunaga would say force it to sing
Tokugawa would say wait for it to sing.
For this reason I think Toyotomi Hideyoshi was the most poplular as he actually inspired the people. The others were more brutal.[/QUOTE]
While they are playing with the song-birds, Takeda Shingen rides on to victory...only to get shot off his horse by a peasant hunting ducks with his musket... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Tachikaze
02-27-2002, 03:50
But isn't the question "Who is the most famous?" The debate seems to be turning into "Who was the most important?" or "Who was the most popular?"
Different questions.
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
02-27-2002, 23:11
Surely Tokugawa has got to be the most famous. He has a whole Era named after him.
Edo or Tokugawa Era.
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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
http://www.gifs.net/animate/aniyin.gif
I vote for Oda Nobunaga and Totoyomi Hideyoshi.
For they laid the foundation for the unification of Japan. Hard to tell which was more important.
Takeda Shingin was just a big "what-if".
Tokugawa Ieyasu was just lucky in that he had a long long life span.
RageMonsta
03-18-2002, 15:59
I keep seeing the words 'most feared'....did not exist..the true way was to except death...so no enemy would be feared.
the only fear is fear itself.
and a big angry MONSTA..........much more famous than any of the above mentioned peasants.
Anssi Hakkinen
03-18-2002, 21:08
I would have to go with Tokugawa to answer the topic's question as well, because he's the only one who usually gets a mention in run-of-the-mill Western history books.
Of course this is always a matter of perspective, but I've actually heard Takeda Shingen get a *lot* of publicity compared to his actual achievements (not that they wouldn't have been impressive as such). There's Kagemusha, he is mentioned in the by far most popular translation of The Art of War... So his "fame factor" is pretty significant as well.
Ultimately, however, my vote for the most influential daimyô goes to Nobunaga, the First Unifier, but that's hardly surprising given my soft spot for wholesale slaughter. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
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Are we talking 'Famous' or popular, or best? Famous would probably be Ieyasu - just because he unified Japan, had an era named after him, and anyone ever taking a Japanese history class or modern Japanese culture class will hear about him over anyone else, but best or most popular/interesting awards would probably go elsewhere.
RageMonsta
03-19-2002, 15:29
Thanx...I will take that award then...since I was not allowed to count my mountains of vote from HABA.
NagatsukaShumi
04-07-2002, 08:38
I'd say Nobunaga was the most famous, Takeda would definately be up there also
Most famous = Tokugawa Ieyasu.
Most admired (imo) = Takeda Shingen
Most ruthless = Oda Nobunaga (Mt Heie!!!)
Probably the real SJ Shogun = Toyotomi Hideyoshi
After all, the first shogun = Minamoto Yoritomo
They all deserve credit.
Tera.
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