View Full Version : What is your most favourite historical movie?
Grand Duke Vytautas
12-14-2004, 13:22
Hi guys. I know this is an off-topic, but anyway what is your most favourite historical movie. As for me, it's Gladiator. I love this movie (seen more than 100 times ~;) )
CrackedAxe
12-14-2004, 13:40
Gladiator gets my vote also. for the older historical epics, I would have to go with 'The Vikings', cheesy as it is, its still great.
Joan of Arc with Leelee Sobieski. The capture of Joan is incorrectly depicted which mars the historical accuracy..
Gladiator was not a historical movie, it was a fantasy romp set in the Roman Era.
My personal favourites are:
All Quiet on the Western Front
Red Badge of Courage
Das Boat
In Which We Serve
The Cruel Sea
and
Band of Brothers
Worst bit of crap ever seen to date has to be Arthur, with Patriot coming a very close second.
Zatoichi
12-14-2004, 14:25
Gladiator gets my vote also. for the older historical epics, I would have to go with 'The Vikings', cheesy as it is, its still great.
Ha ha! As soon as I saw this topic title I thought 'Tony Curtis in The Vikings - superb!' But I figured I'd be up for some serious ridicule... It's just one of those films that's stuck with me since I was a nipper - the horn music especially for some reason. Ah, they just don't make them like that anymore...
Yep! that homecoming scene with the longship in the Fjord and the horn playing is a classic that sticks with you. But I'd hardly call the film historical, I mean on that basis the Robin Hood series would have to be a classed as a historical documentary.
Octavius Julius
12-14-2004, 14:35
Life of Brian is the best historical movie ever.
What did the Romans ever do for us?
Prodigal
12-14-2004, 14:35
Well its myth, & inaccurate at that, but its Excalibur for my money, I can't comment on the two vile films that have been released since then on the same topic, as I have to watch my blood pressure.
I Claudius second, although that's not 100% accurate its fine fun.
Zatoichi
12-14-2004, 14:45
Yep! that homecoming scene with the longship in the Fjord and the horn playing is a classic that sticks with you. But I'd hardly call the film historical, I mean on that basis the Robin Hood series would have to be a classed as a historical documentary.
What? You mean The Vikings wasn't an accurate portrayal of the Dark Ages? But they had swords! They had American accents! What could be more historically accurate?
Yeah, well I guess you have a point... but come on, Tony with his hand cut off (and with an extra large forearm to boot) knocks Gladiator into a Viking horned helmet...
Next thing you know, someone will be trying to tell me the Vikings didn't have horns on their helmets...
Unseen Potato
12-14-2004, 14:45
Asterix and obelix!!!!!!!!
just kidding I like Band of of brothers and gladiator
Next thing you know, someone will be trying to tell me the Vikings didn't have horns on their helmets...
Vikings DIDN'T have horns on their helmets ~;)
But you are corrct compared to Gladiator 'The Vikings' is an amazingly well researched representation of the the period depicted. I mean the longship really was a ship and was umm!......long. What more can one say ~D
Asterix and obelix!!!!!!!!
Asterix and Obelix is a brilliantly researched historical drama, their depiction of the introduction of tea drinking to the Romano-British tribes is the most amazing piece of historical documentary film making I have ever seen. ~;)
And the Gauls wear striped pants (Trousers to us Brits) just like in RTW.
Druids ..... it's such an awesome movie. Go see it for yourself really you do'nt know what your missing.
Then come kill me when your done watching it that is if you have'nt killed yourself already. Of course there is one awesome scene in there when the Romans massacre the druids.
Of course there is one awesome scene in there when the Romans massacre the druids.
Hmm!! Well the Romans did massacre the druids, but were they wearing bikini's and covered in blue paint. If they weren't then clearly the Amercian researchers must have used the wrong comic for their research. ~;)
Hi everyone ~:wave:
I know I'm English and not sure of the historical accuracy but I have to go with Braveheart. Gladiator comes a close 2nd.
:charge:
I know I'm English and not sure of the historical accuracy but I have to go with Braveheart.
Ah! Yes! Braveheart. Made one proud to be Scottish, even if you were English. Certainly boosted sales of tartan kilts for a few months.
Rather a lot of blue paint splashed around in that film too as I recall. I suspect someone at Universal Studio's over ordered when they were repainting the offices and needed to use it up somehow.
Anyone seen Alexander? Its gotta be one of the worst ones....
Zatoichi
12-14-2004, 16:27
Well, I'll also vote for Zulu. Now there's a classic. Michael Caine at his best.
"Zulus... thousands of 'em!"
"Stop chuckin'... those bluddy... spears... at me!"
Yeah I know, he never said those quotes, but he could have.
I've not seen (or do I plan to see) Alexander - but is it bad enough to make Troy look good?
I've not seen (or do I plan to see) Alexander - but is it bad enough to make Troy look good?
Surely not ~:eek:
Yea The Vikings was good ~D
But I'd have to say Highlander....... ~;)
Grand Duke Vytautas
12-14-2004, 16:57
I've seen Alexander recently - it's the most awful miserable historical film I've ever seen. I can't even tell you how I was embarassed :furious3: BTW, my no.2 is also Band of Brothers, especially 3,4 parts of that film (even better than saving private ryan ~;)
~:cheers:
FURRY_BOOTS
12-14-2004, 17:14
Ha ha! As soon as I saw this topic title I thought 'Tony Curtis in The Vikings - superb!' But I figured I'd be up for some serious ridicule... It's just one of those films that's stuck with me since I was a nipper - the horn music especially for some reason. Ah, they just don't make them like that anymore...
em,,,, that would be Kirk Douglas :bow:
not very historical, but saving private ryan was one of my fav films.
the sharpe series was very accurate(sean bean), but the books are even better :book:
Anyone seen Alexander? Its gotta be one of the worst ones....
I haven't seen it yet, but I was led to beleive by the fly on the wall 'How we made this brilliant film' pre-history documentary that it was really well researched and presented. Are you saying the yanks screwed it up yet again?
BTW: I shall put an honourable mention in for Master & Commander on the grounds that it is the best attempt I have ever seen to simulate the passsage and effect of solid shot artillery. The sound the shot made as it passed overhead was apparently very carefully sampled from actual solid shot firing ranges.
Oh! I also like the music, and Crowe did quite a good job of pretending to play the violin. However, a black mark I'm afraid for using Hobbits in the crew of HMS Surprize. Orc's maybe Hobbits never.
Highlander, indeed. Not just one of the finest films ever made, but educational too.
As for Alexander, I think the whole thing was well researched and apparently quite accurate (caveat: for a Hollywood blockbuster...), it's just the film that was unutterable shit. That's as far as I can tell from the American reviews anyway, I'll still go and see it. I might take a few screen shots of these boards with me though, just so I can sit at the back of the cinema and complain loudly about the wrong kind of cross-stitching they used in the companion's trousers. ;)
AFAIK, The guy who was the film's historical advisor, Robin Lane Fox, is a fantastic writer and a well respected professor of history; his book Alexander the Great got me into the whole period in the first place. I missed the documentary he made about the filming, but apparently he swapped his fee for the chance to dress up as a Macedonian extra and get at least a flavour of what it was like to charge in one of Alexander's phalanxes. He was suitably excited by the whole thing...
And anyway, what with the general incredibleness of Alexander's story, you can imagine top Hollywood-producer-type Bud Weinsteinfinkleberg taking one look at the historically-accurate script and screaming, "Hell no! Even can't pretend all shit really happened!"
Zatoichi
12-14-2004, 17:41
Just some info about The Vikings, curtesy of Google for any of you folks not fortunate to have seen it:
"The Vikings (Richard Fleischer, 1958) Tony Curtis in period movies is always a problem but he's always a guilty pleasure. He and Kirk Douglas are brothers but don't know it. Janet Leigh is the woman they fight over. Tony loses his hand and Kirk loses an eye. And Ernest Borgnine, in one of his great camp performances, plays Kirk's father, though I'm sure they're the same age. He has a great death scene; he has to jump into a pit of wolves. And he calls out "Odiiiiin!" as he jumps."
Now if that doesn't make you all want to rush out and rent it, there's something wrong with the world! Gladiator - pah!
Rock Chalk Warrior
12-14-2004, 18:06
Band of Brothers was great, but for me Gettysburg is my favorite. It helps you realize how close that battle was and how desperatly the North had to win, otherwise this country would have likley been split into two countries, North and South US.
AFAIK, The guy who was the film's historical advisor, Robin Lane Fox, is a fantastic writer and a well respected professor of history; his book Alexander the Great got me into the whole period in the first place. I missed the documentary he made about the filming, but apparently he swapped his fee for the chance to dress up as a Macedonian extra and get at least a flavour of what it was like to charge in one of Alexander's phalanxes. He was suitably excited by the whole thing...
I saw the documentary but it was actually a charge of the Companion Cavalry that he got to join rather than an infantry Phalanx. The Health and Safety guy was having kittens apparently and he had to sign a waiver before they would let him on a horse.
dedmoroz
12-14-2004, 18:11
Seven Samurai
pure classic, best movie ever i think...
Kellys Heroes - if you want historical accuracy read a book, if you want a good film watch this.
In the order that I think of them,
Band of brothers
Saving private Ryan
Enemy at the gates
Bridge on the river kwai
A bridge too far
The devils brigade
Thin red line
Apacolypse now Redux
Sargent York goes to war
Heartbreak ridge
Charge of the light brigade
The four feathers (70's version with Beau Bridges)
Sharpe (all 26 hours of it)
A knights tale
Gladiator
Horatio Hornblower
FURRY_BOOTS
12-14-2004, 18:54
Just some info about The Vikings, curtesy of Google for any of you folks not fortunate to have seen it:
"The Vikings (Richard Fleischer, 1958) Tony Curtis in period movies is always a problem but he's always a guilty pleasure. and Kirk Douglas are brothers but don't know it. Janet Leigh is the woman they fight over. Tony loses his hand and Kirk loses an eye. And Ernest Borgnine, in one of his great camp performances, plays Kirk's father, though I'm sure they're the same age. He has a great death scene; he has to jump into a pit of wolves. And he calls out "Odiiiiin!" as he jumps."
Now if that doesn't make you all want to rush out and rent it, there's something wrong with the world! Gladiator - pah!
ah,yes,,,tony curtis,,,,,well it has been a long time since ive seen it ~D
The best viking flick I've ever seen.
Viking Invasion (http://users.wolfcrews.com/toys/vikings/)
'Anthony and Cleopatra' starring Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton was pretty good, El CId feat. Charlton Heston is pretty good despite some historical discrepancies 9inevitable in most movies...among the Second World War flicks i did like 'A bridge to far' :dizzy2: oh damn i almost forgot 'Zulu'....not seen 'Viking Invasion' and have not seen 'Alexander' or 'King Arthur' for that matter ~;)
chipchap
12-14-2004, 19:22
I would say that the best movie ever historically is Spartacus from the 60's
with Kirk Douglas and Laurence Olivier
see it guys and u will be all into RTW again :charge:
:duel: its a great movie
Das Boot and Zulu are good.
Saving Ryan's Privates was good for the first half hour (well, it made a good attempt at showing the landing anyway) but after that it was just another formulaic WW2 cliched squad movie.
Saving Ryan's Privates was good for the first half hour (well, it made a good attempt at showing the landing anyway) but after that it was just another formulaic WW2 cliched squad movie.
Yep! have to agree the first 10 minutes were good but it just went rapidly downhill from there.
I thought Shavin' Ryan's Privates was the knockoff porn version lol.
Seriously though, Alexander could've been the greatest historical movie if they had'nt chosen a crappy lead actor and stiched up the scenes better. The storyline seemed rush to show u Gaugamela, which shoulda been the highlight and climax of Alexander's Carreer. It would've been better if they had shown u all the small battles (Macedon vs Thebes, Granicus river, etc), his life, then lead up to Gaugamela. I meant, Darius only got like 5 min of screen time, we see a close up of him, he ran, and died. That's it.
The battles were too much CGI and not enough explanation. I meant, I had to explain the whole strategy thing of Gaugamela to my Sister and Mom who were watching with me. Otherwise they would have no clue what in the world was going on. I found it funny they tried to make a Gladiator type speech in the battle which didnt fit in with the lead Farrel's acting..
Also the director tried to make too much a point of his movie to show the "other" side of Alexander's private life. I mean, come on, a couple scenes or innuendos here and there but u dont have to show us every freaking time... Some of it might not even be true anyways.......... I'm pretty sure the movie bombed in the ratings...
I heard that there was ssupposed to be another Alexander movie made by another producer. Anyone know anything bout it?
It's on par with Troy as far as crappiness is concerned. King Arthur is just utter crap though.
King Arthur is just utter crap though.
Actually, I think if they had made a film about King Arthur with Camelot, the round table, holy grails, witches, demons and even a dragon thrown in for good measure it might have been a brilliant film.
Instead, the arsewipes tried to peddle the idea that this was 'the true story of Arthur' and then ballzed up the entire concept by getting side tracked into dark age bikini's, blue paint and Anglo-Saxons apparently going to a fancy dress party in Scotland dressed as Vikings.
It might have worked in the US but here in Britain people weren't sure if it was supposed to be a comedy, there were lots of guffaws from the cinema audience as the film just lurched from one absurd incident to another.
I kept waiting for John Cleese to appear carrying a Holy Hand Grenade.
Rurik the Chieftain
12-14-2004, 21:23
I would have to agree with Seven Samurai, but I also really like The Vikings.
You can't beat an old black and white Japanese film :bow:
Oh no someone ban Ptah for he has revived the viking kitties
master of the puppets
12-14-2004, 22:21
my favorites were always (in no particular order)
saving private ryan
enemy at the gates
band of brothers
a bridge to far
hamburger hill
gladiator
zulu
but hearing about "the vikings" "druids" and other i had no idea there werwe so manygood sounding ancient movies now
master of the puppets
12-14-2004, 22:26
about all those movies people attempt now "Arthur" "Alexander" blah blah blah why can't they get a buch of blood soaked barbarians hacking at each other right? i mean why do they have to put in there fancy plots and stuff just show me three hours of stratigic formationing battle and my personal favorite BLOOD AND CHUNKS :charge:
Suppiluliumas
12-14-2004, 23:31
People seem to be listing war movies rather than historical ones. How about the Grapes of Wrath?
Highland Storm
12-14-2004, 23:51
Henry V
Orvis Tertia
12-15-2004, 03:08
Ah, yes, Henry V was excellent. One of the few times I've been able to stomach a Branagh production. (He gets a bit syrupy for my taste.)
I think Ran deserves to be memtioned. Brilliant.
Gallipoli is another good one that hasn't been mentioned.
I was quite surprised by 13th Warrior. Not necessarily historical but it had an authentic quality to it that I quite enjoyed. I know it wasn't about Beowulf, but when I saw it I thought it was and I thought it was a really interesting interpretation of the Beowulf story as it might have really happened. Then I found out it wasn't about Beowulf but I was still impressed by it.
Eric the Viking, anyone?
Aguirre Wrath of God was historical in the same way as Apocalypse Now (in some ways authentic, in some ways way over the top) but it was quite good. While we're on that subject, the Heart of Darkness with Malkovich was excellent.
And I, Claudius was not a movie, but it was the most fantastic historical TV series ever.
I haven't seen it yet, but I was led to beleive by the fly on the wall 'How we made this brilliant film' pre-history documentary that it was really well researched and presented. Are you saying the yanks screwed it up yet again?
Alexander was historically accurate if you consider Plutarch's essay on Alexander the Great accurate, but the sexual aspect, which is barely touched on in that essay, was played up in the movie while an important part showing how Alexander earned the loyalty and respect of his soldiers in the battles around Macedonia was omitted. The out of sequence act showing Philip's assassination compounds this as the movie jumps from Alexander in Macedonia before becoming king to him leading his army at Guagamela. That's a huge compression of time at that point in the movie, and it happens again in the depiction of the last two years of Alexander's life. The movie also glosses over the journey to the Oracle in Egypt which was an important event. Since only two battles are shown in the movie, some incidents involving Alexander are moved to those battles, but the significance of those battle events is retained. It's too bad the movie doesn't show the true event of his wounding because it would equal anything in Gladiator or Braveheart and it actually happened if you believe Arrian. Also, rather than have Ptolemy in the library in Alexandria telling the audience how mythic Alexander was, it would have been much more impressive to have him at Alexander's tomb where his body was lying in state wrapped in hammered gold sheets in his full armor. It lay in state for 550 years, but was eventually destroyed by Christians since he was considered a pagan god.
Ah, yes, Henry V was excellent. One of the few times I've been able to stomach a Branagh production. (He gets a bit syrupy for my taste.)
I think Ran deserves to be memtioned. Brilliant.
Gallipoli is another good one that hasn't been mentioned.
I was quite surprised by 13th Warrior. Not necessarily historical but it had an authentic quality to it that I quite enjoyed. I know it wasn't about Beowulf, but when I saw it I thought it was and I thought it was a really interesting interpretation of the Beowulf story as it might have really happened. Then I found out it wasn't about Beowulf but I was still impressed by it.
Eric the Viking, anyone?
Aguirre Wrath of God was historical in the same way as Apocalypse Now (in some ways authentic, in some ways way over the top) but it was quite good. While we're on that subject, the Heart of Darkness with Malkovich was excellent.
And I, Claudius was not a movie, but it was the most fantastic historical TV series ever.
I've seen some of I, Claudius and I forgot Gallipoli. It's always funny to see those early 80's Mel Gibson parts where he actually sounds like an aussie. The 13th warrior was based on a Micheal Crighton novel called "eaters of the dead". Which was based on the memoirs of an 10th century arab poet. It's his writings that give us the only accuarte depiction of pagan norse life. Also they don't say it but the montage where Anotonio's character travels back to the norsemens home there going up the volga from the black sea to somwhere in Sweden.
Sol Invictus
12-15-2004, 05:39
1. Saving Private Ryan
2. Cross of Iron
3. Zulu
4. Zulu Dawn
5. Gettysburg
6. March or Die
7. Das Boot
8. Lawrence of Arabia
9. Waterloo
10. Lion of the Desert
Aurelian
12-15-2004, 06:33
Here's my list of favorite "historical movies". I put "historical movies" in quotes because some of them are more historical than others. They do all qualify as "period pieces". Not in any particular order:
"Wind and the Lion" - Set in Morroco in 1900. Sean Connery as the "Raisuli", a Berber chief, kidnaps American citizen Pedikaris (Candice Bergen) and her children. Theodore Roosevelt calls out the Marines. Climaxes in a battle between charging Morrocan horsemen and German artillery. Based on a real incident. In real life, Pedikaris was a guy, Raisuli befriended him and turned him over without all the bloodshed... but the movie version is much more entertaining.
"Three Musketeers" and the "Four Musketeers" - 1973/74 versions. A two-part movie experience (filmed at the same time), starring a host of notables including: Charlton Heston, Faye Dunaway, Michael York, Richard Chamberlain, Raquel Welch, Christopher Lee and others. Not strictly "historical", but filmed in Spain at period locations and 'feels' right. Great mix of humor, drama, and action. Definitely two of my favorite movies of all time.
"Queen Margot" - Also based on a Dumas story. This one is a French film made during the mid-1990's. Great stable of European actors including Isabelle Adjani, Daniel Auteuil, and Vincent Perez. Set in 1572 at the time of the Saint Bartholomew's Day Massacre in Paris. Daniel Auteuil plays the leader of the French Protestants Henri Bourbon, who enters into a marriage of convenience to the Catholic Marguerrite de Valois (sister to the King). Massacre, forbidden love, and tragedy ensue. Think Shakespearean tragedy. Cool and atmospheric.
"Excalibur" - My favorite Arthur film. Weirdly pagan. Entertaining battles. Sex in armor. Who could ask for anything more?
"Zulu" - Everybody must have seen this one by now. If you didn't, they stole the Zulu's war chant and used it as a German (!) war chant at the beginning of Gladiator. "First rank fire! Second rank fire! Third rank fire!" ~D
"I, Claudius" - Yummy goodness. Patrick Stewart with hair. Dereck Jacobi doing his first stuttering and stammering character. Caligula. Pagan excess and family murders. Good fun.
"Le Bossu" - Hardly historical, but a really fun French swashbuckler. Was subtitled "The Hunchback" in English, but since it made people think of that hunchback that roots for Notre Dame, it has since been released on DVD as "On Guard".
"Band of Brothers" - I rented "Band of Brothers" on video and watched the whole series in a couple of days. Compelling, and actually historical.
~:cheers:
acheronsbane
12-15-2004, 09:35
don't really know much about how movies are categorized, but me thinks some of you guys are submitting fictional period films with no historical context at all. similarly, don't know how the starter of the thread should catergorize historical. but here's mine, some with vague reference to historical figures and events:
zulu
battle of midway
bridge too far
spartacus
geronimo
crusades (documentary)
black hawk down
elizabeth
I just remembered a good period peice called the lion in winter. There is a TV version form last year starring Patrick Steward and Glenn Close. But the one I'm talking about is the 1968 version starring Peter O'Toole as Herny II, Katharine Hepburn as Eleanor of Aquitaine, Anthony Hopkins as Richard (the lionhearted), Nigel Terry as John (same guy who played Aurther in Excaliber), and Timothy Dalton as King Philip of France. Very good movie as you can see by the cast excelent acting and good story. It's set over christmas just before or during the war between Richard and Henry. Basically Henry and Eleanor are locked in an eternal struggle over who will succed Henry, who is 50 and thinking his days are numbered. Eleanor wants Richard to succed Henry. But Henry sees Richard as being to much under his mothers influence. Henry and Eleanor havn't got on for about 20 years (she's been locked up in various palaces). Henry's first choice for an heir was his oldest, Henry. But he died and now with Richard being second and not worthy in his eyes he looks to the baby, John, to be king after him. There is also Geoffrey constantly playing his brothers and parents off each other to try and get the best deal for himself. Henry and Eleanor both consider Geoffrey to be the worst of all their sons.
Prodigal
12-16-2004, 14:51
Druids ..... it's such an awesome movie. Go see it for yourself really you do'nt know what your missing.
Then come kill me when your done watching it that is if you have'nt killed yourself already. Of course there is one awesome scene in there when the Romans massacre the druids.
My local Vid. club got that in & the dvd got broken within about 2 days, (no great surprise), so I actually went out & bought it :bigcry:
Mikemyers64
12-16-2004, 21:03
lost battalion was a great movie
Proletariat
12-17-2004, 04:39
Are you saying the yanks screwed it up yet again?
Har har. Well, since childishly nationalistic jokes are the order of the day... Maybe we couldn't afford to keep on screwing it up if your countrymen and the rest of the world stopped purchasing tickets and DVDs. Or you could always come up with something competitive.
Life of Brian - Definitely!
Byzantine Prince
12-17-2004, 05:23
Caligola (1979) by Tinto Brass
I have never seen a more accurate movie in terms of the society and morality of Rome.
It might be too hardcore for some of you idiots out there but give it a chance and try to accept the fact that although has huge flaws they are flaws you can ignore and look trough.
Caligola (1979) by Tinto Brass
I have that movie on DVD, its good but personally I thought the follow up TV series 'I Claudius' was better.
War and Peace is another film I missed off my list but is a worthy mention as a period historical drama. Contrary to the pundits I actually think the English dubbing was done rather well and the battle scene is way better than the feeble attempts to recreate Waterloo.
Proletariat
12-17-2004, 18:14
War and Peace is another film I missed off my list but is a worthy mention as a period historical drama. Contrary to the pundits I actually think the English dubbing was done rather well and the battle scene is way better than the feeble attempts to recreate Waterloo.
I beg you to please elaborate. ~D This is second to Anna Karenina as my all time favorite novel and am very interested. If you've read the novel, what's your opinion on the accuracy and character depiction?
I'm beginning to salivate.
Khan of ED
12-17-2004, 19:58
My number 1 is Gladiator the porn version ~D .
Those Roman orgies are so real ~D .
Historical setting movies & Purely Historical Movies. There should be a distinction between them.
Anyway my list are :
1. Braveheart
2. Gladiator
3. Saving Private Ryan
4. Hang Tuah (Malaysian Production 50's feat. P Ramlee)
5. Hang Jebat (another oldies feat. Nordin Ahmad, inter related with Hang
Tuah but from different perspective)
6. Excalibur
7. Troy
8. Platoon
9. The Longest Day
10. Gettysburg (the mini series)
My worst list :
1. King Arthur
2. Troy
3. King Arthur
4. Troy
5. King Arthur
6. Troy
7. Alexander
8. Alexander
9. Alexander
10. Alexander
Would like a movie/movies based on the Warlord Chronicles by Bernard Cornwell though. Might be great.
~:handball:
The Stranger
01-16-2005, 12:38
yeah the new alexander movie sucked big time though the battles were really awesome
anyway the most historical top 5 is (its mixed)
Band of brothers
saints or soldiers
enemy at the gates
king arthur not the newest but a very old one
gettysburg
I beg you to please elaborate. ~D This is second to Anna Karenina as my all time favorite novel and am very interested. If you've read the novel, what's your opinion on the accuracy and character depiction?
Sorry, I've only just spotted this post which I think was aimed at me.
My overall impression was good, the characters depicted whilst not fitting one mental portrait exactly do remain true to the descriptions in the book.
Natasha is annoyingly skittish which is how she is described and Pierre looks suitably lost and confused most of the time.
What one loses of course is a lot of the characters internal mental processes which have to be derived from imagery of the film but this is understandable and to do otherwise would require a constant background narrative explaining what they are thinking.
Most of the key events in the book are portrayed in the film though without the background information that makes them significant to the reader again because to do otherwise would be impractical.
Thus for example my favourite scene from the book being the events around Captain Tushins battery I was pleased to find that Tushin was depicted in the film together with all the events but the film fails to deliver a full understanding of Tushin's character because most of this is done by the author as an aside to the actual action.
well my top 5 are
1. Seven Samurai (this movie rox my world, japanese by akira kurusawa)
2. We Were Soldier (this movie rox featuring bruce willis in vietnam war)
3. Ran (another Japanese movie by akira kurusawa)
4. Gladiator (if you dunno this then you shuld check it out)
5. Band of Brothes (^ ^)
AquaLurker
01-17-2005, 03:57
As for Alexander, I think the whole thing was well researched and apparently quite accurate (caveat: for a Hollywood blockbuster...), it's just the film that was unutterable shit. That's as far as I can tell from the American reviews anyway, I'll still go and see it. I might take a few screen shots of these boards with me though, just so I can sit at the back of the cinema and complain loudly about the wrong kind of cross-stitching they used in the companion's trousers. ;)
AFAIK, The guy who was the film's historical advisor, Robin Lane Fox, is a fantastic writer and a well respected professor of history; his book Alexander the Great got me into the whole period in the first place. I missed the documentary he made about the filming, but apparently he swapped his fee for the chance to dress up as a Macedonian extra and get at least a flavour of what it was like to charge in one of Alexander's phalanxes. He was suitably excited by the whole thing...
And anyway, what with the general incredibleness of Alexander's story, you can imagine top Hollywood-producer-type Bud Weinsteinfinkleberg taking one look at the historically-accurate script and screaming, "Hell no! Even can't pretend all shit really happened!"
Agree, I actually like Movie and still don't understand why others who have watch it found it so distastefull, I read some stuff about Alexander and I was pretty much supprised that they were actually showing things that I have read. So far, it is the most historical accurate moive made IMHO.
AquaLurker
01-17-2005, 06:37
Anyway I had forgotten to list my lists of favorite movies though not necessarily historical accurate but usually realistic and entertaining, but mostly set in medieval or ancient periods.
1. Musha
A Korean & China film industries’ attempt to create a romantic and tragic story about a group of Korean emissaries traveling to China, gotten exiled by the Ming Emperor, and got lost their way in the desert and finally making their last stand against a band of Mongols warriors. Very Cool STUFF, with no ridiculous flying swordsman for once. More realistic combat scenes, a must see. But no epic battles, more like skirmish.
2. Brave Heart
Though historical inaccurate, it is still entertaining.
3. Alexander
Just simply a lot of beautiful setting and depiction of Babylon
Awesome battle scene and some historical controversies accounts added. Yeah I hate the gay part but I choose to ignore it.
3. Gladiator
It is simply entertaining.
4. 13th warrior
Entertaining but the fighting scenes could have been better, the story was ok. If only we could know a little more about the other 10 warriors.
5. The Messenger
Realistic battle scenes other than that it is quite entertaining though.
6. Last Samurai / Kurosawa films etc.
Simply appreciate their existence.
7. Troy.
Nice too have something to watch at an epic proportion.
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The funniest Author Movies so far have to be the ‘King Author’.
Funny looking female woad warriors and their little make shift onagers/motars! Silly and awkward costumes but I like the Anglo Saxon/Viking looks, other than that the rest were simply cute.
Amazed how few of the classic's are coming up, you guys must be very young.
one of my all time faves is "Seven Samurai" also add to that "the last samurai" - ive read a few books all about the real last samurai and the film was quite accurate in most of the stuff depicted on screen. the most blatant americanism was actually having an american as a samurai although to be fair tom cruise is really good in this film, i usually cant stand his stupid grin, but i was very impressed with his performance here :) also "Glory" is another personal fave, though im not sure on its historical accuracy. another good`un is "Waterloo" seeing that massive french cavalry charge break around the english squares is one of my favourite images of war on film. i saw "Alexander" last week and loved it. the battle of Gaugemela was brilliant though it missed the part where the persians actually break through the macedonian battle line only to be met with a second line of Phalanx`s. the love story between him and his friend did take up quite alot of screen time but all they did was talk a bit and hug every now and then i dont have a problem with that. Although all the greek characters seem to be putting on a very slight irish twang to their accents which i thought was strange.
I think the Irish twang is just used for the Macedonians, to distinguish them from the other Greeks, and to draw comparisons between the way Greeks see them (provincial, uncultured, wild) and the way the Irish have been treated by the rest o the English speaking world for much of the last couple of centuries.
That and to help out Colin Farrel, anyway.
Oh, and Glory is a really unexpected treat of a film. I have a real soft spot for Ivanhoe and El Cid as well - though they're based on three hundred year old (?) historical romances rather than history per se...
Arkatreides
01-17-2005, 14:51
I really liked Alexander, it must have been one of the best researched films ever made. I don't care whether Arrian was wrong or whether Callisthenes just wrote propaganda. Those are the best sources we have and according to them, the film is spot on. One review I read slagged it off because it was "too much like a history lesson". This criticism kind of sums it up for me. The film flopped because it is too realistic.
As for the so-called gay scenes ... guys, come on, try to see things in context. After all it is not all that different from some all-boys public school environments ... think about it
Mikeus Caesar
01-17-2005, 20:19
Watch 'Helen of Troy'. It's a low budget version of 'Troy', but very good, as it talks about more of the talking stuff that happened instead of just the battles. I learnt quite alot about The Seige of Troy thanks to that movie....
King Henry V
01-17-2005, 22:36
For me, there can be only one true favourite: Waterloo. Very accurate, it's one big battle scene and my hero is in it: Arthur Wellesley, First Duke of Wellington, Viscount of Talavera, Duke de la Victoria, Generalissimo of the Spanish Armies, Warden of the Cinque Ports, Commander-in-Chief of the British Army.....
Then comes El Cid, Ben Hur, Gladiator and Knights of the Round Table (ok I know it's not very historical, but it was one of my favourtie films when I was little and I would grab a plastic sword and prance around the lounge skewering imaginary Mordreds).
Sam Adams
01-18-2005, 02:09
Troy(if you call that historical)
Gettysburg
Black Hawk Down
Master And Commander
Das Boot
worst "war" movies ever
Alexander
Gods and Generals
war movies should have wars in them.
Troy(if you call that historical)
Gettysburg
Black Hawk Down
Master And Commander
Das Boot
worst "war" movies ever
Alexander
Gods and Generals
war movies should have wars in them.
Alexander is a historical movie mate, not a war movie ~:) otherwise it would have more fighting in it
Sam Adams
01-18-2005, 03:47
it sure seemed like it was going to be a war movie from the commercials.
those sneaky lieng bastards.
Byzantine Prince
01-18-2005, 04:24
I just watched alexander moments ago and I have to say it was the best historical movie I have ever seen.
Must admit I had a suspicion that Alexanders poor reviews had more to do with the mentality of US cinema audiences than its actual quality.
[GG]vonDöbeln
01-18-2005, 12:59
Seven Samurai
pure classic, best movie ever i think...
Gets my vote too. And did someone say that Highlander was educational?!?!
[GG]vD
vonDöbeln']And did someone say that Highlander was educational?!?!
Of course it is. It educates people that sometimes, sequels can be very bad. As the film says:
"There should have been only one"
doc_bean
01-18-2005, 13:09
I just saw Alexander yesterday, it was okay, not great. If only they had cut a couple of scenes it would have been much better (the homosexual thing was overdone, but the semi-incestuous relationship with his mother was too much, does this have any historical grounds ?)
Some of my favourites (no particular order):
Braveheart
Julius Caesar (the old one based on shakespeare)
Gladiator
Excalibur
BTW I think I used to like the Robin Hood film with Kevin Costner, but I haven't seen it in over 10years, I wonder if it was really any good.
I just saw Alexander yesterday, it was okay, not great. If only they had cut a couple of scenes it would have been much better (the homosexual thing was overdone, but the semi-incestuous relationship with his mother was too much, does this have any historical grounds ?)
I beleive it has, certainly my understanding was that he was bi-sexual not sure about the mother bit though.
There is always a problem when historians or film producers try to present an accurate record of events. Look at all the flack Hofschroer got when he published a book based upon the latest research regarding Waterloo. He ended up in court because the 'Wellington was a God club' couldn't accept the truth.
Likewise, we still worship Oliver Cromwell over here despite the historical facts. I think the Alexander film is getting flack because its showing us things that we would prefer to overlook, people tend to be much more comfortable with school boy history where all the heroes are perfect and all the baddies are totally evil.
BTW: I'm curious, does the film show the incident where Alexander murders his best friend after a drinking binge. I know that incident was recorded but I just wondered if its in the film.
Arkatreides
01-18-2005, 13:59
If you are referring to Black Cleitus, yes that's in the film.
Sounds like I have been misled by the reviews. I should have thought about them being American :slaps forehead: :end:
I think the homophobia comes from mostly the younger guys. Maybe they should try watching the x version of caligula.
I can't believe you haven't metioned "The Conqueror" with John Wayne as Temujin. Easily one of the most accurate depictions of history (or was that hysteria?) ever.
mfberg
1. Band of Brothers
2. Sparticus
3. Attila The Hun
4.Enemy at the gates
doc_bean
01-18-2005, 22:26
I beleive it has, certainly my understanding was that he was bi-sexual not sure about the mother bit though.
I knew about the bi-sexual thing (hard not to know it's in the movie since it's been out for a while), Stone overused it but I didn't really mind, the mother thing was just weird. He's gay but he wants to sleep with his mother ?
(I use the term gay here, because in the movie that' is how is portrayed.)
AntiochusIII
01-18-2005, 22:42
I just lovveee Band of Brothers... They were fantastic (Compare to most Hollywood junks.) Braveheart is fun, but it is not historical, isn't it? The Last Samurai is cool - I hate Tom Cruise but he's excellent in that movie. And I wanna watch Alexander. Can anyone under 18 watch it? ~D
Oh and I know he's a bi-sexual but about the mother thing... I thought it was just because Olympias was very hot(not in terms of sexy but as anger!!!) and clashes with Philip or something that she prefer Alexander.. Besides, I read somewhere that Hephaestion(is that a guy who's Alexander's partner?) once sent a letter to Olympias to "let Alexander alone" but I may be wrong. :duel:
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