View Full Version : Egyptians v Seleucids: Rock v Paper
Egypt is at war with the Seleucid Empire following a trade dispute which prompted the Seleucids to break their alliance and blockade the Egyptian port of Salamis.
I have met the Seleucids in battle several times now and their army is certainly impressive to see. Forests of pikes seem to blot out the skyline and their huge war elephants are very intimidating. The first time I saw them I doubted my ability to beat such a force in open battle, I have learned differently since.
Whilst, the Seleucid army stands like a solid rock in the centre of the battlefield, so my Egyptians are like paper, wrapping itself around them and suffocating them in its embrace. The Egyptain army I field consists of a large number of widely dispersed missile firing units. They cannot hold their ground against the Seleucid phalanx's but then why do they need to. Just about every unit in a typical Egyptian army is able to throw something.
Arrows, Javelins or Rocks showers down upon the slow moving Seleucids as the Egyptian chariots maneourvre around their flanks supported by mercenary horse archers, slingers and javelins which can cause a 240 man phalanx to whither and die before their pike points can find any target to strike at.
Their elephants run amok under the deluge of missiles and create havoc in their own ranks and their cavalry if able to close at all is pounced upon by the Egyptian desert cavalry or arab horsemen as soon as they leave the protection of their slow infantry colleagues.
If the Seleucids began to field archers it might make things more difficult but overall I suspect that they would never field enough to turn the tide, and so, the advance of their phalanx's is marked by a trail of their own blood.
Such is the price of betrayal.
You want to watch out - if the Seleucids get to their most advanced units, you'll have a lot more to worry about! There are their cataphracts, just about the most powerful cavalry in the game, and also their Silver Shield Legions, a direct copy of the Romans and about as powerful as Praetorians... IMHO, the most balanced combined army in the game. Whether the AI ever manages to field a balanced army of phalanxes, legions, awesome cavalry, the terrifying armoured elephants and archers is a different matter entirely...
But, and this is playing the Seleucs as a player, their population goes up painfully slowly, and so it'll probably be a while before they can field those units. I found the best way to get to the most advanced buildings was by capturing Alexandria and the rest of the Nile cities - so watch out...
Yah! I agree with Fridge that those cataphracts with armored elephants are really serious problem. I didn’t play Egypt before but have played against them a few times.
While as the Seleucids my army of armored elephants, cataphracts completely routed the Egyptians as the AL missiles troops can’t stand against my fully armored horsemen ~D
You don't have to worry about the Seleucids fielding archers. They have a horrid range. Horrid horrid horrid.
I am playing a Seleucid campaign now and my archers suck big ones. They are easily outranged by archer auxilia and most other archer units I come up against. Horrid it is I tell you! The only saving grace is being able to hire Cretian archers!
But I do agree with Fridge. The Seleucids have a great balance of units.
Can anyone tell me where the archers ranges are located in the data folder?
I know it was mentioned somewhere but I can't find the thread.
You want to watch out - if the Seleucids get to their most advanced units, you'll have a lot more to worry about! There are their cataphracts, just about the most powerful cavalry in the game, and also their Silver Shield Legions, a direct copy of the Romans and about as powerful as Praetorians... IMHO, the most balanced combined army in the game. Whether the AI ever manages to field a balanced army of phalanxes, legions, awesome cavalry, the terrifying armoured elephants and archers is a different matter entirely...
Yes, I have noticed that some of their more recent armies to appear on the scene have chariots and I wonder if they will make a difference. But at the same time I have an army of spies and assassins in their lands and I am routinely destroying their military infra-structure so hopefully the number of these units they manage to field will be minimal.
If you can't beat them, blow up their base. Thats my motto ~;)
In that case, it might be helpful to know those chariots are made by Blacksmiths. They're probably the first non-crappy unit you get, but their appearance on the battlefield doesn't say much about the Seleuc's military advancement, as they exist outside of the normal tree.
If you've got archers, they tend to send them amok quite quickly, and a scythed chariot running amok through their own phalanxes is not a pretty sight... Well, for you it might be.
Ziu - Can anyone tell me where the archers ranges are located in the data folder?
I know it was mentioned somewhere but I can't find the thread.
It's in the Data folder, file export_descr_unit.
:charge:
It's in the Data folder, file export_descr_unit.
:charge:
Great, thank you. :bow:
(It seems the range is the same as roman archers):wall:
Rurik the Chieftain
12-17-2004, 16:33
I can definitely see Egypt winning against the Seleucids early game. All you need to do is not let up! If the Seleucids get too much of a foothold, they will start making Elephants and Legions and Cataphracts, and all the other best units from the other armies. Just keep crushing them early on and they're no trouble. ~:cheers:
In that case, it might be helpful to know those chariots are made by Blacksmiths. They're probably the first non-crappy unit you get, but their appearance on the battlefield doesn't say much about the Seleuc's military advancement, as they exist outside of the normal tree.
If you've got archers, they tend to send them amok quite quickly, and a scythed chariot running amok through their own phalanxes is not a pretty sight... Well, for you it might be.
Yep! just met a Seleucid army with two of these armoured chariot units outside the city of Seleucia. Can't say I was impressed. One unit attempted to take on two units of Arab Horse Archers and ended up running amok. The other charged a unit of my own chariots and resulted in a swirling chariot melee, I put an end to it by sending in my trusty desert cavalry and it was soon running for the base line.
After that it was back to target practice on the enemy phalanx forest. Final score 1532 v 67 pretty decisive victory. Seleucia is now an Egyptian city and churning out Egyptian chariots. ~:cheers:
LordKhaine
12-18-2004, 00:56
Really isn't too hard to beat anyone with the invisible full plate armour axemen, chariots of doom, and huge units of archers. Egypt are the only faction I tend to fear when played by the AI. Simply beacuse their units pack such impresssive stats. Their axemen are lethal, and they usually field large amounts of archers. So attacking with missles or melee are both equally dangerous. They also have a good choice of cavalry, the best chariots in the game, and they can field phalanx units too. And to make matters worse, they get good units low down on the tech tree!
Concerning the Seleucids, I really havent seen them enough to judge them. As the AI they get beaten up by Egypt and Parthia early on. And I have yet to play a game as the Seleucids. I plan on saving this faction till later when the patch is out, since it looks like a really fun faction to play.
SwordsMaster
12-18-2004, 01:12
Yup, I hated the egyptians in my last (and current) Seleucid Campaign. As you have all said, Cataphracts are the best choice here. But you CAN win with an all-militia hoplite army as well. But I left 1 egyptian city till I got Companion cavalry. You gotta see them. Better charge than Cataphracts and as fast as the greek cavalry. You get it. Now most of my armies have 3-4 of those, a couple of war eles, and the rest are 1/3 silver legion, 1/3 sspikemen and 1/3 cretan archers.
Thats too much even for the naked axemen and the sneaky M1A chariots.
Besieger
12-18-2004, 07:05
Well....my last campaign playing as Seleucid somehow impress me alot compare to playing the Egyptians. . As "i forget e name" have juz said, Cataphracts are the best choice here. Using 4 units of cataphracts and a couple of war elephants will be almost enough yo deal a stack of Egyptian army. Although cataphracts and armoured elephants may be slow in speed, their heavily armour animals and riders have very good charge attack AND not forgeting that they are not afraid of the Egyptian missile units at all!!! So, if u are talking abt placing a fully upgraded 'Seleucid' army against the 'Egyptian' BEST??....i will said that its really a 'Stone' against the 'Egg' senarios.
:duel:
The reason I chose to play Egypt as my second campaign was simply because they gave me so much trouble during my Roman campaign.
As yet I have not trained any axe units and my Nubian Spearmen have seen very little action as depopulation is forcing me to use mostly mercenary units in my armies. However, contrary to expectations chariots are not that useful in melee, they seem to cause a lot of chaos but don't kill very much so its mostly show. Desert Cavalry on the other hand are brilliant as are the mercenary horse archers. As said in my opening post the Egyptian army is an army of paper it just wraps itself around the enemy and suffocates it with missile fire.
As for the Seleucids, if my strategy works they will never get to field any of those awesome units you keep talking about. My saboteurs are routinely burning down their military infra-structure and murdering their blacksmiths. Their time in the game is now very short but perhaps I will play their faction next time and see if I can turn the tables on the Egyptians.
The Bloody Seiges of Antioch
Antioch, a major centre of trade, a major Seleucid sea port and a bloody pain in the arse for the Egyptian Pharaoh.
For years Antioch has been the objective of Egyptian expansion. Taking Antioch will secure the Egyptian Pharaoh another major sea port and trade centre on the Med and halve the Seleucids ability to construct warships plus strategically driving a wedge between Seleucid dominions in Assyria and Cilicia.
As such the Syrian capital of Antioch has been the focus of Egyptian espionage efforts for years. Barely, building in the city remains undamaged by sabotage, hardly a general may wander abroad without risk of sudden death and the city is awash with Egyptian spies.
The First Seige
Thus when the first Egyptian army arrived at its gates it was no surprise to find that they were open nor were there any mystery about the strength of its garrison. Two phalanx units guarded the city, one deployed on the wall and one behind the gate. Plus a General called Alexander and his bodyguard of heavy cavalry held the city square.
The Egyptians were confident of victory there largely army of Arab mercenaries bolstered by almost 500 Archers newly recruited from Sidon just up the coast.
Deciding that a formal seige was unneccessary the Egyptian General opened the battle with a huge arrow assault on the pikemen guarding the wall whilst a unit of slingers was ordered to assault the phalanx on the far side of the gate. The phalanx behind the gate quickly fell back and sensing victory the slingers rushed through expecting to chase the phalanx all the way to the town square. They were greeted with burning oil and quick lime flung from the gatehouse above them which horribly thinned their ranks and open emerging at the other side by the phalanx driving forward pushing them back through the gate for another dose. They broke immediately and ran.
The archers ran out of arrows and the Seleucids still held the gate.
The Egyptian general began to regret his impetuosity but his pride prevented him withdrawing. He sent forward his second force of slingers against the phalanx guarding the gate hoping that they would try to repeat their withdrawal trick. They did and this time he sent a unit of Eastern infantry through the gate to exploit. They braved the burning oil but baulked at the sight of the fast returning phalanx and they too routed back through the gate, losing terrible casualties.
Realising that the Gods were asleep today the Egyptian General withdrew to Sidon.
The 2nd Seige
Several months later the Egyptians returned to the walls of Antioch, this time with a larger army led by the Pharaoh himself.
The enemy garrison had increased in number consisting of six phalanx units and a unit of archers.
This time the open gates were ignored and seige towers were constructed. A unit of Eastern Infantry and a unit of slingers mounted the walls to the west of the main gate using these towers. the Eastern infantry headed along the wall for the gate but were met by massed phalanx infantry who began to drive them backwards remorselessly. A unit of Nubian Spearmen were sent up the tower and into the mass of Seleucids above followed by a unit of Nile Spearmen. Still the Seleucids fought on, the Eastern Infantry were shattered, the Nubian decimated and the Nile Spearmen dug their heels in and resolved to fight to the last man. Archers were sent forward shower the mass of Seleucids with missiles and the last unit of Nubians were order up onto the walls but misunderstood the order and charged the gate instead wasting their lives pointlessly :furious3:
Eventually, the Seleucid on the wall were overthrown and the shattered survivors of my infantry moved on the gatehouse once more. The were met by yet another fresh unit of phalanx infantry and there advance blocked. they could go no further. The Slinger unit which had kept out of the first fight was order forward to take their place and amazingly eliminated the entire enemy phalanx with stones at short range.
They actually captured the gate and for a short time things looks positive until yet another phalanx unit appeared and drove them off retaking the gatehouse.
With only cavalry remaining and no way of entering the city unopposed the Egyptian Pharaoh bowed to fate and withdrew once more to Sidon.
A 3rd Seige will follow, for Antioch must fall. :duel:
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