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The Daimyo
01-10-2001, 17:58
First off I did not accuse that kid of being an outright cheater.

Second I reported that his actions almost, and I say ALMOST made him one, whether it was on purpose or not, he changed the the comp setting we had in game 1 to friendly for the rematch when he was going to be stuck in the castle with only 4 units as I was. This was something he did consciously when he set up for the second match.

I acknowledge that this (the game not being reported, and saying that it is still being played though it was over with like 2 hours ago!) may be a server quirk, but it alarmed all of us who were playing because I was not the only one he had played with tonight that this happened to, PLUS he QUIT a battle that he was ABOUT to lose against another person that was there. The one he lost to right after playing me, said that those mysterious things happened with that player as well.

For the Record - I am not accusing that person of intentionally cheating, but we (the people who were online at that time) thought he was a rather fishy character. He said he didn't know where the player ladder was, what rankings were, and said he was basically ignorant of all these things. He then said he was only 13. This "kid" has played an awful lot, and has won most of his matches.
We dealt with it there and figured we'd wait it out and see what would happen later. I don't really care about the matter of battle wins and ladder Honor, but I do care about people trying to pull a fast one on the other honest players.
Even after the fact, We were all very polite to him, and we even told him how to look everything up and and how to do a bunch of other useful stuff so he'd have his bearings.

ShadowKill:
First off, You should Know that I have been playing online battles since the game came out. I've played well over 400 games, friendly and Competitive.
Recording or not, it's a mess if the server's jacked up like that. People are supposedly still having a big problem with their Comp games not getting recorded.
60,000 Koku, that was the "kid's" choice so that all of the units would have 9 honor and so that they'd fight to the last man. It CAN make Castle sieges a lot of fun, but in this case, it's overkill because the castle is too small. Castle 4A only allows for 4 defenders.
I used the name here to call attention to the BATTLE RECORD and to alert you all to the situation as it pertains to said parties involved. I also wanted to know if this person was someone we knew, and if anyone could speak on his behalf about his character and demeanor.
If I am going to say something about what you did, or might have done, and expect you to respond or have people look into something and know what they're looking for then it is necessary to give out that detail so that people can find it. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
I am not accusing this person of outright cheating, go and read the post again if you need to clarify that.
I would go back and edit my message to make this more clear, because I was a tad "yanked" about the whole deal, which has happened before to me and many others by other map "specialists". If people wanna play competitive and get honor by rigging the situations so that they have things heavily in their favor, then they either need to give a rematch (which this kid did in a roundabout way) and let the sides be switched so they get a dose of their medicine - or not play the game that way in comp. Half the comp games I've lost in the life of this game online were to jerks who wanted to defend the most defensible map and had the ammo set to unlimited and koku at 10,000 or higher. Then when they've usually BARELY won, they run away with my honor points and then they DO NOT give a rematch with the sides switched.
So now the only safe thing to do is NOT play comp games with these types of losers. Make them go friendly and not care about the scores, or just don't play with new people. Haha!

Erado-san, we all know that you cheat. You set up your army and then leave the game. Then the army ('s) that attack you run away in fear that you might actually be there and you JUST might make them attack back at them.
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Sorry I brought all this up, but all this "fishy" stuff is getting on my nerves. There's just too many players online who are just trying to make a name for themselves by doing underhanded stunts, playing on terms that are not reasonable, or they use "rush" armies that win the day 9 times out of ten on certain maps with certain weather conditions.

Sorry if that other post bent the rules, I didn't try to over do it and made sure to word it so that it wouldn't be taken that way. It was suppossed to be a more open context than what it was read as.

I Offer My Humble Apologies,



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The Daimyo
Miaowara "Kakizaki" Tomokato
@ http://www.planettotalwar.com

ShadowKill
01-10-2001, 18:24
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif the comment about the online games played it was just joke because this sort of stuff has happened so many times. I know i had play one person and he beat the living crap out of me and shoved my army back in my face i lost but when i went to check the record hey what do you know hehe I won. Anyway this sort of stuff happens we get mad but it really must be taken with a grain of salt no big deal. and yes Some people (very small amount) do rig games to win best way to not have this happen is to host. that way you do not run into this kind of thing but that has it's draw backs to because you will find yourself on the other end of the stick on day because someone will accuse you of cheating when somthing goes wrong. I have been lucky I host 90% of the time and only been called a cheater or a ESCer 6 or 7 times in 8 or so months http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Fear not the sword to your front, but the blade at your back.

Clan Shades
Shades (http://www.geocities.com/shadesofshogun/index.html)

[This message has been edited by ShadowKill (edited 01-10-2001).]

Kurando
01-10-2001, 19:42
That's no problem, T_D + I don't blame you for responding in kind. It was a low-blow to close the thread without giving you adiquate time to respond to the comments expressed by others + I'm sorry.

Let's put it like this: as long as patrons respect that we don't want anyone slandered or blacklisted (by name) here at .org you can discuss these issues all you like.

In point of fact, we encourage discussions about cheating on a conceptual level, because it is obviously a valid concern these days and we have no intention of hiding our heads in the sand RE this issue.

Additionally, if patrons wish to discuss our long-standing policy towards not naming names in cases of alleged cheating, please do so. We are always open to hearing opinions concerning our policies, and moreover, we will do our best to accommodate the majority if a changes are deemed necessary.

Thanks all,
Kurando (Admin).

Erado San
01-10-2001, 20:38
Hmmm... No.

Fishy or not, you should not name the guy.

You can say you didn't accuse him, Daimyo, but his name is down the drain.

Compare this:

Quote
Now I am not accusing anybody of course, but son't you think George Bush is spending a lot of time with that new intern in the Oval Room?[/QUOTE]
If anybody close to Georgie would say that, the buzz would be all over the world. There's no proof, no accusations, but everybody will have his opinion on it.

Same happens here I am afraid. I wasn't there, most of us weren't there, we see no evidence, and yet some of us will avoid him like the Plague. And still he might be just unlucky with his ISP or the database mucking up. That could happen to you too. Do you want your name down the drain for something you didn't do?

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Visit my tech support site (http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/Erado/) or join my Host of Chaos Clan (http://erado.bizland.com/chaos/)

Magyar Khan
01-11-2001, 00:22
or email me the game so i can join him to see what happen. but as said before somethimes strange things occur, like autorouting troops. somethimes in my favour sometimes in the others favour. as shadowkill and obake will know.

Slyspy
01-11-2001, 04:46
The database mucks up all the time. According to my record I'm still fighting a battle I started before Xmas! In fact it was fought to a conclusion, and other games against the same player later on were recorded. So I afraid a non-recorded result proves nothing really.

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"Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"

The Daimyo
01-11-2001, 08:02
Hey there,

Shadowkill, I realize you were poking me, but I had to set the record straight. I appreciate your humor and understanding of these matters.
Kurando, thanks for noticing and thanks for closing that thread and editing it so quickly, (even though I didn't have a chance to respond http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif ), I was indeed wrong to post that persons name with that post as it was written. I saw no other way to point out the situation without his name, but I guess there might be a better way of doing it. Either way, I am glad that you are present to save us from ourselves http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Erado-san, yeah-yeah, I see your point, and I will make sure to try and figure out a better way of bringing up and/or dealing with these types of situations in the near future.
The name thing is a hard issue, and what makes it worse is that it is very hard to get around it when you want issues like these discussed. I'm not sure how else we can call attention to an event or battle without using the names of those involved. That's like asking people to know something for a test that wasn't made available to them through the teachings or curriculum.

example: "A guy killed another guy by stabbing him in the back."
Who?What?Huh?

This brings to mind the comedic arguement "Who's On First Base?"
See my point? It's very hard to skirt the issue of the proper noun in most situations.
Besides, ANYONE even mentioning that something foul MAY have happened to them at a precise time that involved someone else will draw the curious to look up the matter on record. In this case ANYONE could easily go and look at my battle records and reasonably figure out who/what/where/when.
The ONLY two options to solve this matter that I see fit are:

1 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Don't mention cheating/foulplay in any sense as it pertaining to one's self and another for any given event within a traceable timeline that would allow others to go and find out WHO (you and the other) are referring to.
2 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Don't talk about it here or in any other forum. Reserve it for the chat rooms or for private emails between those concerned. This doesn't always work though. In most cases it doesn't get resolved.

Many of the accussed in these cases are people who DO NOT care about these matters because they aren't a solid part of the community and they could care less about what we say about their PLAYER NAMES on the forums here. If I were to make up a name UNRELATED to my name and person here, and I went in to play the game in such a fashion that would allow me to rack up 100 wins and 0 losses by using every dirty trick in the book and I got known as a cheat or an unfair hosting player who ESC's and whatever else then OF COURSE I am not going to reveal that that character was me to anyone here or elsewhere. People do this for their own retarded (sick?) reasons, and there is little we can do about it other than try and make others aware to these players' bad form.
But how else can we?

The only exceptions to this is of course in the event that someone makes it blatantly obvious (w/ evidence etc...) or admits to it.
We all know that those two things almost never coincide and that getting the hard data to determine an actual cheater is very difficult beyond screenshots and battle log files.

MagyarKhan, I will reserve judgement for myself, as will the other players who were present at said affairs. Thanks for the offer though.

Now I wonder what will/can be done about the battle recording problem at the server. It's not a BIG problem, yet, but it does raise issues like these so I would consider it to be something that NEEDS to be addressed soon.

Hmm...

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif


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The Daimyo
Miaowara "Kakizaki" Tomokato
@ http://www.planettotalwar.com

[This message has been edited by The Daimyo (edited 01-11-2001).]